FLUIDS
SEPTEMBER 2008
UNCONFIRMED MINUTES
SEPTEMBER 15, 2008
CROWN PLAZA SEATTLE DOWNTOWN HOTEL
SEATTLE, WASHINGTON, USA
These minutes are not final until confirmed by the Task Group in writing or by vote at a subsequent
meeting. Information herein does not constitute a communication or recommendation from the
Task Group and shall not be considered as such by any agency.
MONDAY, SEPTEMBER 15, 2008 - CLOSED
1.0
OPENING / CHAIRPERSON COMMENTS
1.1
Call to Order / Quorum Check
The Fluids Task Group was called to order at 9:00 a.m. by Chairperson Rick Carver. Chairperson
verified that only user members were in attendance. A quorum was established and quorum was
met at all times for both open and closed meetings. The combined meeting attendance with the
following representatives is as follows:
User Members Present (* Indicates Voting Member)
Joe Bebey
* Rick Carver
Brian Caton
Ron Clements
Barbara Donoghue
Roger Duty
Duane Falk
Perry Freeman
Dave Griffith
Robert Hainline
Kevin Heck
Al Hoube
Leo Meredith
Fred Meyer
* Erwin Oman
Robert Schreiber
* Mark Scott
* Dan Smith
The Boeing Company
Northrop Grumman
Parker
The Boeing Company
The Boeing Company
Eaton Aerospace
Parker
The Boeing Company
The Boeing Company
The Boeing Company
Lockheed Martin
Parker
Eaton
Cessna Aircraft
Bombardier
The Boeing Company
The Boeing Company
GE Aviation
Chairperson
Other Participants/Members Present (* Indicates Voting Member)
Norman Alexander
* Roger Christianson
Harlan Blanchard
Ray Bitting
Alex Cozens
Ricardo Foster
Carlos Garfias
Dale Gordon
Stephen Gravereaux
Robert Hainline
Ed Henricks
Steve Hudlet
Robert Johnson
SAE Consultant
Hydraflow Inc.
Smiths Tubular Systems
PCC
National Utilities Company
National Utilities Company
Airdrome Precision Components
Aerofit
Jetseal Inc.
N/A
Airdrome
Jetseal
Sandvik Special Metals
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FLUIDS
SEPTEMBER 2008
Joseph Klamar
Samson Mekurca
Leo Meredith
Jay Myers
Mansoor Motavvef
Ky Nguyen
Jerry Onufer
Nilesh Patil
Mike Paveglio
Bill Perea
David Peterson
Clayton Ramclam
Tim Rusk
Mark Scantoloni
* Michael Schleckman
Brian Sharkey
Bob Sincoskie
John Smith
Larry Solinger
Ron Spencer
Dennis Spry
Joe Stanek
Steve Sucharski
Hans Van der Velden
Phillip Wade
National Utilities Company
PFW Aerospace AG
N/A
SAE
Kirkhill-TA Company
Adel Wiggins Group
Retiree
Shur-Lok
Smiths Tubular Systems
Atlas Specialty Products
Creative Pathways Inc.
Pamco
B & E Mfg. Company
Faber Enterprises
Voss Industries
Adel Wiggins Group
Jetseal
Sandvik Special Metals
B & E Mfg. Company
Faber Enterprises
Independent Testing Labs
Wyman Gordon
Ho-Ho-Kus, Inc.
SAE Consultant
Smiths Tubular Systems
PRI Staff Present
Ken Lefebvre
Keith Purnell
1.2
Approval of Previous Meeting Minutes
The minutes from March 10, 2008 were approved as written. Vote for approval was held during the
combined open meeting with suppliers.
1.3
Voting membership was confirmed, Alan Jankot retired and will be removed from the roster.
Leonard Aube has retired and Dale Gordon will be his replacement. Ron Clements will be replaced
by Sam Buri. Task Group voted and approved Sam Buri as a Prime Voting member.
2.0
SUCCESSION PLANS
2.1
Action Item from the July Nadcap Planning and Operations Meeting was for each Task Group to
review its succession plan and determine a succession date from the existing Chairperson to the
incoming Chairperson. Existing succession plan required updating because Vice Chairperson
retired the week prior to this meeting. It was proposed that Robert Schreiber of Boeing be the next
Nadcap Fluids Distribution Systems Chairperson. A motion was made by Ron Clements and
seconded by Dan Smith to accept Ron Schreiber as the next Nadcap Fluids Task Group
Chairperson. The Task Group voted unanimously in agreement of the motion. No one volunteered
to be Vice Chairperson so Rick Carver the current chairperson said he was willing become Vice
Chairperson to help with the transition. A motion was made by Joe Bebey and seconded by Dan
Smith to accept Rick Carver as the next Nadcap Fluids Task Group Vice Chairperson. The Task
Group voted unanimously in agreement of the motion. Chairperson transition was planned for the
next Fluids Task Group Meeting on March 16, 2009 in Tampa, Florida contingent on Nadcap
Management Council approval. A nomination committee was formed consisting of D. Smith, G. Ott
and K. Purnell to identify the next Vice Chairperson.
ACTION ITEM (#69): Keith Purnell to submit completed m-frm-01 for Robert Schreiber to NMC for
approval by Oct 31, 2008.
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FLUIDS
SEPTEMBER 2008
ACTION ITEM (#70): Keith Purnell to set up a conference call for the Vice Chairperson
nomination committee by November 15, 2008.
ACTION ITEM (#66): Keith Purnell to revise the Task Groups Succession Plan by December 5,
2008
2.2
PRI Staff requested a Task Group member record the meeting minutes. The Task Group has never
had a secretary and no one volunteered? The Task Group agreed to rotate the responsibility of
taking meeting minutes at each meeting. D. Smith volunteered to record the meeting minutes for
this meeting.
3.0
AUDITOR TRAINING
3.1
The outcome of the 2008 Auditor Training program was reviewed. Auditors received 8 hours of
general auditor training on Saturday July 19 and 8 hours of fluid specific training on Sunday July
20, 2008. Auditors requested Prime participation at next year’s Fluid specific portion of their Auditor
Training. Auditors reviewed AC7112 Rev. A & provided feedback. Auditors found the review of the
most common NCRs very useful.
3.2
Next year’s Auditor Training will be in Pittsburgh, PA the week of October 19, 2009.
Robert Schreiber agreed to attend and assist with the fluids specific training. Task Group
determined 4 hours of fluids specific training would be sufficient.
2009 Auditor Training Agenda was developed that includes the following topics:
Question and Answer Session
Review of Prime Issues
Pre-Audit Preparation
Review of Latest Document Changes
Most Common NCRs
Development of Audit Handbooks
ACTION ITEM (#71): K. Purnell and R. Schreiber to complete the Fluid Specific Auditor Training
program materials by September 15, 2009.
4.0
AH7112 Rev. A
Questions asked by the auditors during Auditor Training were reviewed. Auditors suggested the
SPC section of the checklist should either be mandated or eliminated. Auditors are not finding
purchase orders flowing down SPC requirements; most suppliers do SPC for informational
purposes only. Auditors asked if it is better to for suppliers to randomly select periodic test samples
as opposed to creating separate shop orders. Primes agreed separate orders were fine for hose
but periodic testing of fittings should be selected at random. Because of time restraints at the
meeting, additional auditor questions will be addressed during the monthly Task Group conference
calls.
5.0
NTGOP-001 Appendix XI
Revised NTGOP-001 Appendix XI was balloted on August 20, 2008. Additional votes required to
close the ballot were obtained. Comments from the one disapproval vote were discussed. AC7104
is referenced in the document but PRI no longer performs audits to this checklist. The Task Group
agreed to remove this reference from the Appendix since it is obsolete. Second ballot comment
questioned the change in supplier merit requirements and a concern the new merit criteria would
increase costs to suppliers and primes. PRI Staff explained that the new merit criteria is the same
criteria the Task Group used to have. PRI Staff charted merit data that showed merit has
decreased since the Task Group revised its merit criteria several years ago. By going to the new
standardized merit criteria more suppliers should be qualifying for merit which will reduce costs.
Motion was made by R. Clements to approve the NTGOP-001 Appendix XI with the elimination of
the obsolete reference document AC7104, motion was seconded by Dan Smith. Task Group voted
unanimously to approve the motion.
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FLUIDS
SEPTEMBER 2008
ACTION ITEM (#68): K. Purnell to update disapproving prime member of Task Groups decision
and to ballot document to NMC after removal of AC7104 reference. This change was considered
editorial. Due date November 15, 2008
6.0
DELEGATION
New form for tracking Staff Engineer delegation metrics was reviewed and the Staff Engineer
maintains his delegated status.
7.0
NEW BUSINESS – ITAR/EAR
Don Buehler of PRI is scheduled to give an ITAR/EAR presentation during the open Task Group
meeting. Task Group is required to identify checklist questions where sensitive materials may be
attached and identify them with the designation EC. This will remind the auditors to be careful when
attaching documents.
MONDAY, SEPTEMBER 15, 2008 – OPEN
8.0
ROUTING ATTENDANCE LIST
Roster was circulated for all in attendance to sign. Chairperson Rick Carver verified a quorum was
established.
9.0
APPROVAL OF MINUTES
The minutes from the March 10, 2008 Nadcap Task Group meeting in Addison Texas were
presented and Chairperson Rick Carver made a motion for Approval. Motion was seconded by R.
Spencer and the Task group voted unanimously to approve the minutes.
10.0
Nadcap STAFF REPORT
10.1
PRI Staff Report was presented by Product Staff Engineer Keith Purnell and is attached
PRI Staff Report
Sept 15 2008
10.2
Auditor Status – Task Group currently has 1 Auditor and 2 Lead Auditors.
10.3
Fluid Distribution Systems Audits scheduled for 2008 are 26 re-accreditations and 2 initial in the
Americas and 1 re-accreditation in Europe. 21 audits have been completed to date.
10.4
Task Group Metrics were reviewed:
Audit cycle for 2007 was 57.9 days.
Cycle time goal for 2008 is 50 day for Reaccreditation audits and 60 days for initial.
There were no lapsed accreditations in 2008.
Average number of Major & Minor NCRs was reviewed
The most common NCR’s from AC7112 & AC7112/2 were:
#1 NCR – Sampling
#2 NCR – Calibration Issues including outside calibration services
#3 NCR – Procedure issues – procedures do not address, not following the procedure, not
recording required data.
#4 Not performing onsite audits of suppliers
10.5
Future Nadcap Meeting Dates
October 6-10, 2008 Yokohama, Japan
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FLUIDS
SEPTEMBER 2008
February 16-20, 2009 Dallas, Texas
July 13-17, 2009, Istanbul. Turkey
October 19-23, 2009 Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania (Auditor Training)
10.6
2009 Auditor Training
Fluids Distribution Systems Task Group Specific Auditor Training will be on Saturday October 18,
2009 in Pittsburgh PA. Draft training outline was discussed. PRI Staff asked for Volunteers to assist
with Auditor Training.
ACTION ITEM (#67): Members that wish to assist in the 2009 Auditor Training to contact
kpurnell@sae.org by May 15, 2009.
10.7
eAuditNet
Latest changes in NOP-011, NOP-008, NOP-003, NIP 7-03 & NTGOP-001 were reviewed. These
changes required the revision and ballot of the Task Groups NTGOP-001 Appendix XI operating
procedure.
10.8
AC7112 Rev. A
Audits using the new AC7112 Revision A began on February 18, 2008.
Subcontracting was discussed and a checklist can not mandate a supplier use a Nadcap
accredited source. Checklist can only verify if purchase order, specification, drawing and internal
procedures are being adhered to. Suppliers are required by AS9100 to control their subcontractors.
PRI auditors will be verifying that suppliers are auditing their subcontractors. Task Group is working
on an audit handbook for the new AC7112 A checklist.
10.9
Draft AC7112/2
Aluminum Forging issues previously identified during revision of AC7112/2 are being addressed in
SAE documents.
10.10
Websites
www.pri-network.com contains PD2101, Nadcap Task Group Meeting Minutes, Agenda and Export
Control Information. www.eAuditNet.com contains Audit Checklists, eAuditnet Resources and
Public Documents, Qualified Products List (QPL) and the Qualified Manufacturers List (QML).
11.0
SUPPLIER REPORT
The supplier meeting topic was first article inspection. Suppliers stated that different primes were
requesting different information for first article inspection documentation. Primes responded they
would expect different primes to ask for different information and they consider this normal.
12.0
ITAR/EAR
D. Buehler was teleconferenced into the meeting and reviewed the following ITAR/EAR
presentation. Questions were addressed as the presentation progressed.
Fluids Sept 15 2008
ITAR
13.0
SUB TEAMS
A sub team was formed to revise the AC7112/3 checklist to include requirements for auditing
AS85052A Loop Clamp Manufacturer. Volunteers included D. Smith, J. Bebey. Kirkhill TA and
Adel Wiggins to provide names.
ACTION ITEM (#72): Primes and suppliers interested in participating in the sub team to e-mail
kpurnell@sae.org by November 25, 2008.
ACTION ITEM (#73): K. Purnell to set up a conference call for the sub committee by December 5,
2008
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FLUIDS
SEPTEMBER 2008
14.0
NEW BUSINESS
Suppliers requested report outs from the QPG on topics such as Periodic Testing.
ACTION ITEM (#74): K. Purnell to pass on suppliers request to QPG Chairperson by September
30, 2008.
15.0
ACTION ITEM REVIEW
Action Items are summarized in the RAIL attached to the end of these minutes.
ADJOURNMENT –September 15, 2008 meeting was adjourned at 12:05 p.m.
Minutes Prepared by: Keith Purnell kpurnell@sae.org
RAIL:
Fluids Rail September
15 2008r1
***** For PRI Staff use only: ******
Are procedural/form changes required based on changes/actions approved
during this meeting? (select one)
YES*
NO
*If yes, the following information is required:
Documents requiring
revision:
Who is responsible:
NTGOP-001 Appendix XI
K. Purnell
Due date:
Nov. 15, 2008
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