ULVERSTON TOWN COUNCIL
Minutes of a Public Meeting to discuss Flooding Problems
in South Ulverston, held in the Coronation Hall on
Wednesday 9 December 2009 at 7.00 p.m.
Present :
Councils/Organisations & Agencies on Top Table :
Cllr. Norman Bishop-Rowe – Chairman & Town Mayor, Ulverston Town Council
David Parratt – Town Clerk, Ulverston Town Council
Cllr. Graham Vincent – Portfolio Holder for Economic Regeneration, SLDC
Cllr. Brenda Woof – Portfolio Holder for Environment & Sustainability, SLDC
Lawrence Conway – Corporation Director, Communities, SLDC
Simon Rowley – Assistant Director, Community Services, SLDC
Nick Pearson – Street Care Operations Manager, SLDC
Keith Masser – Area Engineer for South Lakeland, Cumbria Highways, CCC
Glyn Vaughn – North Area Flood & Coastal Risk Management, Environment Agency
Mike Fell – Team Leader, Asset Systems Management, Environment Agency
Eric McDonald – District Engineer for Barrow & District, United Utilities
Carl Milner – Senior Environmental Adviser, GlaxoSmithKline
Inspector Paul Latham – Police, Ulverston
Also Present :
Ulverston Town Councillors
County Cllr Peter Hornby – CCC
District Cllr Mark Wilson – SLDC
District Cllr Jamie Samson – SLDC
Bruce Evans – Assistant Street Care Operations Manager for Ulverston, SLDC
Terry McSorley – Office Manager for John Hutton MP
Members of the Public – 200+
Media Representatives :
Television North West
NW Evening Mail
Westmorland Gazette
Radio Cumbria
1.
Welcome :
The Chairman welcomed everyone to the meeting.
2.
Introductions :
Top Table representatives were then invited to introduce themselves in terms of who
they were representing, their title and main area of responsibility.
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3.
Aims & Purpose of the Meeting :
The Chairman read out a statement as follows:
“This meeting has been called following the recent floods in South Ulverston
on 1st November and again on 19/20 November, but also because of frequent
flooding that has occurred in the past.
There are concerns about a number of issues which Ulverston Town Council
and the public have raised on many occasions and which were raised again
during public participation at the Town Council Meeting on 23 November.
Concerns included blocked gullies and drains which had not been cleared
and were full of sand and debris, the frequency of clearing drains and gullies
which appear to have been reduced, the channel maintenance of various
streams, becks and water courses and Carter Pool, which it is understood is
full of silt and rubbish.
It is recognised that we are far more fortunate than the people of Workington
and Cockermouth and other parts of South Lakeland that have been recently
affected. Nevertheless, it is felt that unless urgent and effective action is
carried out, it will be Ulverston’s turn before long to experience a major
disaster on this scale.
It is also recognised that the amount of rainfall on 19 November was
unprecedented. With regards to the outcome of this meeting, after listening to
the concerns of residents and the council and various responses from the
panel and discussions, it would seem vital that joint agency meetings are held
to agree a list of problem locations, causes where known and an investigation
process into what actions should be carried out and by whom, with an agreed
timescale. Ulverston Town Council asks that the results of these subsequent
meetings be made known as soon as possible.
I also want this meeting to be constructive and not become a slanging match.
There is a need to be positive and find a way forward. The aim is to finish this
meeting by 9.00 p.m. at the latest”.
4. Public Participation, Responses from the Panel and Discussion :
The Operations Manager at the Back Barrow Hotel asked if the sluice gates had
been left open at the upper reaches of the river. Mr. Fell, Environment Agency said
they would have only been opened when the river reached a certain level to reduce
the risk of flooding and would not have exacerbated the problem.
Mr. I. Lancaster, Kennedy Street, said that North Lonsdale Road and Steel Street
became flooded on 19 November and over the weekend, following very heavy rain.
Mr. Lancaster added that he had counted 75 drains in the area and at least 16 of
these were blocked with silt and rubbish. It took many telephone calls before a gully
cleaning vehicle and road sweeper arrived on task. Debris and rubbish were left lying
around after the vehicle left the area at 2.30 pm. A number of blocked drains were
not cleared. He was told that the sandbags provided would be disposed of as they
were contaminated.
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Mr. Lancaster asked who was responsible for the water coming into the houses, the
failed sewerage system and issues with insurance. With regards to sandbags, Mr.
Conway, SLDC said that because of the forecast of heavy rain the previous week, an
initial supply of sandbags were provided which was then supplemented by a further
1,200 amounting to over 2,000 overall. They went very quickly. Mr. McDonald, United
Utilities was not aware that the sewerage system had failed. Mr. Fell, Environment
Agency said that a flood watch had been issued for the area.
Mr. Meyers said that a significant number of drains were not working and could only
find one that was. He said that 13 out of 14 drains were blocked solid, the sumps
were full of grit in most of them. He added that he then managed to unblock some
drains and this reduced the water level considerably. He said that there were blocked
drains all over the town and wanted to know who pays the highways agency for
clearing the drains. Mr. Masser, Area Engineer said that ultimately it was the Council
Tax payer who pays, but Cumbria County Council was responsible. He said that they
were trying to clean the drains twice a year, but at present it was only once a year
due to reducing budgets. He was looking at additional resources for gully emptying.
Mr. Meyers said that the County Council were not providing a service which the
Council Tax payers were being charged for.
Mrs. H. Franklin, 112 North Lonsdale Road, drew attention to a letter dated 4
November 2009 from Mr. J. Hutton MP to Mr. P. Ridgway, Chief Executive, SLDC
and copied to the Chief Executive of United Utilities, regarding flooding problems at
her property in early November. There had been flooding before. She said that there
had been no response to this letter. Mr. Conway, SLDC said that he was surprised at
this but would check. Mr. Parratt, Town Clerk provided Mr. Conway with a copy of
this letter at the meeting. Mr. McSorley, Office Manager for Mr. J. Hutton MP said
there had been no response. SLDC and United Utilities would respond within 48
hours.
Mr. McDonald, United Utilities said that the amount of flood water was swamping the
drainage system. Mr. Fell, Environment Agency said that they had been clearing all
the becks and streams following the flooding. One particular area was related to
Dragley Beck near Fitz bridge. A considerable amount of material, stones, and debris
had accumulated there and needed to be removed. He added that the Environment
Agency did not have exclusive powers to do what it wants and often needed the
permission of the land owner. Mr. Masser, Area Engineer said that he understood
that the gullies had been emptied during the summer and that the drains were
designed to take a one year storm. He said that excessive water beyond this could
not be contained, but clearly admitted that there was an issue with blocked drains
which needed to be addressed.
A number of questions were then asked about building development on a flood plain
area such as the land surrounding North Lonsdale Road. Mr. Conway, SLDC said
that this needed to be looked at over a number of years and an assessment of what
was going to be done in the future. Mr. Fell, Environment Agency said that planning
permission on a flood plain would normally be opposed. The Chairman said that
there had been several items of correspondence on this issue and that the area does
flood on a regular basis. Mr. Fell said that the Environment Agency was only a
statutory consultee and did not have the final say on the matter. Mr. A. Butcher,
North Lonsdale Road queried whether all the drains go to the sewer and perhaps the
more that is built, particular in a flood plain area, the bigger the problem.
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Mr. McDonald said that under normal conditions, there was capacity in the system
unless the sewers become overloaded. United Utilities, as for the Environment
Agency were also a consultee and can make recommendations but cannot refuse an
application. Mr. Conway, SLDC said that when a Planning Application arrives, a
number of stakeholders are involved. Mr. Fell, Environment Agency said that they
had been looking at protecting properties in Steel Street and since the recent
flooding, had met with the SLDC and United Utilities engineers. The river spills over
the area by the Rope Walk and there was a need to reduce the water coming across
Steel Street and open the drainage channels. There was a need for agencies to work
together on these issues.
Mr. Rowley, SLDC, said they were looking at the drainage structure in North
Lonsdale Road. There were a number of old culverts and drains running in all kinds
of directions. There was a need to build flood resilience in this area and were working
as hard as possible with other agencies. Mr. Fell, Environment Agency said they
were part way through a comprehensive study of flooding in South Ulverston to
reduce future risks. There was a water course passing through a sewer. The water
course had collapsed and all the water had been going through the sewer.
Cllr. Mrs. A. Rigg, Ulverston Town Council said that she lived on North Lonsdale
Road and was very concerned about the intention to build further development on the
flood plain. Cllr. Vincent, SLDC said that the site will offer facilities for different types
of business and that there needed to be major reasons for not going ahead.
However, he said that residents fears will be addressed and that it was subject to
planning permission. One resident pointed out that there was 10 metres of solid clay
below the surface which had been drilled out. Cllr. Airey, Ulverston Town Council
then asked for a commitment from Cllr. Vincent that the plans be withdrawn as the
subsequent effect would result in further flooding of resident’s homes in the area.
There was a need for a sustainable answer on flooding. The Local Development
Framework was not at a finished stage and the parcel of land could be taken off the
market. Cllr. Vincent said that this was not the view of the officers of SLDC. The
developer needed the views of the Environment Agency and United Utilities. Cllr.
Woof, SLDC said that cabinet cannot change policy and that this would need to be a
decision by Council members. Cllr. Wilson, SLDC asked what was the decision
making process for employment land and the public petitions that had been handed
in.
Cllr. Vincent repeated that the decision is made at Cabinet but that the Environment
Agency and other stakeholders would have full input before any planning permission
is given. Mr. Vaughn, Environment Agency said that a lot more was known about the
effects of flooding in South Ulverston than was known before. They would continue to
look at what is needed to reduce the flood risk. Cllr. Jenkinson, UTC referred to Barn
Beck which flows into Dragley Beck from a higher level and needed assurance that
the condition and affects of the upper water courses were being addressed and the
minor becks needed to be looked at. Mr. Fell, Environment Agency said that they
didn’t have jurisdiction over the upper water courses, but Mr. Rowley, SLDC said that
they would be looked at.
Returning to the proposed development in North Lonsdale Road, Mrs. H. Franklin
said that the development should be stopped and Mr. Lancaster said that the field
could only be used for 6 weeks of this year due to flooding or saturated ground. Cllr.
Hodgson, UTC said that with regard to this planning issue, this had been a cabinet
decision and asked that at lease a moratorium be called for the time being until the
factors had been addressed.
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Cllr. Lister, UTC also asked if the plans would be suspended for the time being. Cllr.
Vincent said that all the issues will be investigated but that there was a need to move
forward. Mr. Dellow believed that all the factors involved were highly complex. He
also considered that SLDC and C.C.C. needed to secure appropriate funds to buy
houses from residents who wished to sell them in North Lonsdale Road.
The Chairman then read out a letter that had been received from Mr. J. Kelly,
Ulverston, who had been an engineer at Glaxo. He said he had been a resident for
forty years on the Ulverston Flood Plains. Historically, traditional industries were
based in the area due to a supply of water which had been continuously extracted
from large wells. He believed that the end of these industries must have had an effect
on the water table. He also considered that as Glaxo no longer had a fermentation
process and had closed down other units, that their continuous ground water usage
would be much reduced. He also wondered about the condition of the Ulverston
Canal, the redundant vacant areas on the Glaxo site and the effects on drainage,
tighter control of unauthorised dumping on the floodplain and Carter Pool.
Mr. C. Milner, Senior Environmental Adviser to Glaxo then responded to these
questions. He said that with regard to the Canal, it was a clay lined structure. There
is an overflow to maintain a constant level but it is regularly inspected. The amount of
water extracted by Glaxo had reduced by 60%, but there was no impact on the area.
With regard to redundant sites, drainage systems would be left intact. Carter Pool is
a site of Special Scientific Interest and is a natural water course. He said that it was
not the responsibility of Glaxo and came under the Crown Agents. The Chairman
said that concerns had been raised about silting in Carter Pool and the effects on
becks that fed into it. The Crown Agents would be contacted.
The Chairman asked Inspector P. Latham for any comments. Inspector Latham said
that residents in the North Lonsdale Road area had been very resilient under the
circumstances and there was good community spirit. There had been no reports of
any looting.
5.
Conclusions and Follow Up Actions :
Mr. Vaughn, Environment Agency said that there were many factors involved with
flooding problems and that the issues were often not straight forward. He referred to
a new piece of legislation, following the recent Queens Speech, the Flood and Water
Management Bill. The Bill gave the authority to implement the recommendations of
the Pitt report on flooding. The Bill was also likely to have a high priority within the
parliamentary timetable and attract cross party support during the remaining months
of the present Government.
The Bill seeks to :
(i)
define the roles and responsibilities of everyone in flood risk management
and give the lead to local authorities for managing the risk of all local causes
of floods;
(ii)
place a duty on all relevant bodies to share information in support of flood risk
management;
(iii)
require developers to include sustainable drainage wherever practicable in
new housing and business developments.
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This will involve a review of plans and strategies put in place by district, county and
unitary councils and various agencies.
The Chairman agreed that joint agency co-operation and actions were needed at an
early stage to reduce flooding problems. Ulverston Town Council would be keeping a
close watch on proceedings and ask that they be informed of progress on these very
important matters that have had such a significant affect on the community.
Chairman
(The meeting closed at 9.10 p.m.)
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