Roberto Piña-Laughs
Gilberto Hinojosa-Are we ready? Well today is May 28th, 2008 and I’m here interviewing
Roberto Piña. We’re here at the University of the Incarnate Word studio. Bienvinidos Roberto.
P-Gracias, thank you very much.
H-Welcome to Incarnate Word. Thank you for taking the time to join us.
P-Yeah it’s my pleasure. I’m so glad we’re doing it, finally.
H-Yeah I know. We had trouble getting schedules.
P-No I’m just talking about being able to talk about it.
H-Yeah, and thenP-History, yeah.
H-putting everything together. You’re originally from San Antonio?
P-Born and raised here, yeah.
H-Where, uh, what part of San Antonio?
P-Well that’s the interesting thing. I was born on the east end, they call the east side but we used
to call it the east end of San Antonio, which is predominately black. We were a minority within a
minority.
H-Uh huh.
P-So that experience in itself was kind of a revelation. Not at the time that it was happening, but
through the years when you begin to look at and recognize what discrimination was and racism
and all that. Growing up in that neighborhood I mean, I had never even heard of the word racism
and discrimination I mean you know justH-Did you go to school with African Americans?
P-Not until high school. At the time, we were still separated.
H-Uh huh.
P-We had Wheatley High SchoolH-Right.
P-that was predominately black, African American. And then of course we had Tech and Lanier
that was predominately Mexican American. And we never thought anything about it, this is
normal.
H-Yeah.
P-Let me just give you one quick caveat. We grew up-I went to Our Lady of Perpetual Help in
the east end, and that was for the poor folk. And then there was St. Gerard’s, and that was more
or less for the German folk and the ones that were a little high more-more elitist-well, they had
more money. And then they had Holy Redeemer Catholic Church. These were all the
*redenterist 2:31* priests. Now Holy Redeemer was ninety eight percent African American
participants. Now we didn’t think that much about it because Our Lady of Perpetual Help, come
Holy Week, Semana Santa and all of that, everything was in Spanish. And I remember even theeven some of the hymns, *hums music* and the memory of that was there, but what it meant
what it’s-I couldn’t remember. I remember my grandmother making a big deal about Holy Week
about Lent. And I remember also in Ash Wednesday, that’s when you’re supposed to fast. Well
on Ash Wednesday at my house, we had camarones, *names Spanish foods 3:26-3:29*, we had
nopalítios, I mean it was a feast, because that was the Lenten-Lentil food. And we thrived on it,
and I remember too on Holy Saturday, couldn’t listen to music, couldn’t even take a bath-yes,
haha. Loved it you know? Those are the little things that stand out in the memory of the culture
within other cultures. I remember too, growing up, I uh-we got along real well, we being the
African Americans and the Mexicans. We were, like I say, a few in the neighborhood. I was born
on Potomac Street, and there was Potomac St. Charles, St. Paul-no-and it was right in the middle
of the cemeteries. And that was another-but I remember one incident, that we were-my
grandfather told me, he was very cautious with his car. And he would say, ‘*Spanish 4:35-4:29*
I don’t want you to come in through the car’s here because you know you might break something
and besides, the cucuy is here.’ And I said, ‘the what?’ ‘The cucuy esta aquí’. ‘*Spanish 4:52*
what is the cucuy’ he says. ‘*Spanish 4:55-5:01* if you don’t obey, *Spanish5:03*.’ He said,
‘esta bueno mijíto’. So for months, man I wouldn’t go in that garage. So one day my friend
Bobby and I were walking down the street and he said, *mimics friend’s accent*‘say man, let’s
go in there and check out your grandpa’s garage’. I said, ‘oh no, no, no way man.’ He said, ‘why
not, we’re not going to take anything, I just want to check it out, see what’s there.’ I said, ‘no
Bobby we can’t go in there.’ ‘Why not?’ ‘Well man look, the cucuy’s in there, you know?’ ‘The
who?’ I said, ‘the cucuy’s in there.’ ‘What’s a cucuy man? What are you talking about? Don’t
talk that Mexican stuff to me man, talk to me.’ I said, ‘well all I know, my grandfather said the
cucuy is big, he’s mean, and if you’re not paying attention, he’s just gonna each you up.’ And he
looked shocked, ‘I know who you’re talking about, it ain’t no cucuy, that’s the boogie man,
man.’
Both Laugh
P-So, you know, we had different ways, I mean-to be able to follow the rules. And we used
stories like that, you know we used to have like *Spanish word 6:06* and all that kind of stuff. It
was just tales that our parents and grandparents would come up with to give us direction. At the
time it scared the heck out of us, but later on, the wisdom of our grandparents and our parents
was-I mean, you’ve heard this cliché, we didn’t know we were poor, and really didn’t you know?
I mean, Christmas time, we always got something. Maybe it wasn’t what we really wanted but
we got something. And we always got food. I remember my abuelíta, man the food that she
would make was carné pical, hamburger meat con chicharo, con fiedo, I mean they were very
inexpensive meals to fix. Then Betty Crocker comes along, haha, and discovers it and they
become millionaires by cooking the same stuff-Hamburger Helper. They called it Hamburger
Helper.
H-Laughs.
P-We’d been doing that all our lives man. But anyway, I’m sorry I’m just going on and on.
H-No that’s great, that’s great.
P-But that-those were the memories of growing up in the neighborhood. Unbeknownst to be at
the time is just the revelation of the integrating of the African American culture and our culture.
In it’s own way, I mean we didn’t-I remember when we would play football and we’d be playing
and the guy would say, ‘say Mexican,’ and I didn’t think anything about it. And then I used the
N-word and he said, ‘lookie here man, don’t you ever call me that in front of anybody else. You
can do that here, but nowhere else.’ And I always wondered why you know because I-it didn’t
bother me if they called me Mexican, at the time it didn’t bother me, later on it bothered the heck
out of me. But anyway those are just memories of growing up in the east end.
H-Who was closer to the church in your family?
P-You know, ironically it was my grandmother. But, here’s the ironic thing is that she never
went to church. The only time she went to church was when went-*Spanish 8:23-8:26*. And
then my mother had to look for a church that didn’t have steps because my grandmother was a
very large woman.
H-Uh huh.
P-But she made sure that we went to church every Sunday. And I remember-my parents divorced
at an early age and we moved in with my grandparents. And I remember my grandmother was
very devoted to Our Lady of Guadalupe. And I remember her prayers. And she was like la
reserra, she was that woman that people came to with petitions because they knew that she
prayed.
H-Uh huh.
P-And she was a very devout lady to the Virgin, to *Spanish 9:12*. And I remember at night,
‘*prayer in Spanish 9:16-20* for Mrs. Martinez whose husband lost their job, and then for
another one that was in jail-there was this litany of just all kinds of prayers. And then what
touched me towards the end, and she would say, ‘*prayer in Spanish 9:33-9:38*’. She would
always end up her prayers praying for me. And at the time-but as I grew older I kept thinking, I
said, ‘well it must have workedH-Haha.
P-because I didn’t really get into any bad trouble.’ I mean we had fights and stuff like that. But I
never stole or stuff like that you know. And she was a disciplinarian and the other thing funny
about it, even though she was the most devout person, devout Catholic in our family, she always
used to curse a lot. I mean like a sailor, you know they say. And here was the ironic thing too,
when she would curse with her friends-and if she didn’t curse, her friends would say,
‘*Spanish10:30-10:34*’All Laugh
P-because-but when it came to us, when we were doing something wrong, she would always like
half of the bad word *mimics grandmother’s half-cursing*
All Laugh
P-We knew what she was saying, but she wouldn’t use the whole word, you know?
H-Laughs.
P-*Mimics grandmother’s half-cursing*. But she never laid a hand on me, and I was the oldest,
so she was like I said a disciplinarian. If we were doing something wrong, she would always
grab -*cursing in Spanish 11:06*. And she would just *cursing in Spanish 11:09* ‘don’t do this,
don’t do that’, and ‘I’ve already told you’ and ‘you’re this, and you’re that’ and I’d start crying
and my cousins would look at me and go, ‘man this poor guy’. But then she would say,
‘*Spanish 11:22*’ and she’d take me to the kitchen and make me a taco. So after a while, I
wanted that man, haha, I wanted that discipline because that included a taco you know? I’m sorry
Gilbert but you’re asking me questions that’s bringing back memories to my mind, and that’s the
beautiful thing about it because in our own culture, sometimes we do not appreciate just the, not
only the wisdom, but it was the-it was almost like they were genius at giving us direction, at
giving us-there’s a saying that I remember it says, ‘*Spanish saying 12:04-12:08*, which means,
it literally means that exam-no, advice helps, but it’s the examples that show lesson, you know?
H-Yeah.
P-And that was very, very much a thing that-she-with me, if someone died in the neighborhood,
like I said, she was practically housebound, she rarely went out. But if someone died in the
neighborhood, someone got sick in the neighborhood, she would always send me. ‘*Spanish
12:42-12:48*’ You know? So I was doing it not recognizing really what lesson I was learning.
H-Uh huh.
P-Then funerals I remember-in those days, people cried at funerals. I mean that-a funeral was a
funeral man. You’d go in there man and the wailing, ‘aye dios mio’-and it scared the heck out of
us but still it was funny at times. But I remember my grandmother said, she would tell me,
‘*Spanish 13:15-13:29* and you stay there until’- and at that time you could stay all night. I
mean now, at nine o’clock or ten o’clock, as soon as the rosary is over you’re gone you know.
But in those days I mean a wake was a wake. And it was something else but, again, lessons that I
learned.
You know now I try to get my grandson, my daughters just to do things for the sake of
doing them so they know that they’re doing something for someone. We went out once and I’ll
never forget, my youngest daughter, we went to-at that time we were just involved in one of the
movements in the church, and we were given names of families. And we went to this one family
and we took some clothing and we took some food. And my daughter came back and she was
crying. I said, ‘what’s wrong mija? What’s wrong.’ She said, ‘daddy, they didn’t have shoes,
they didn’t have shoes.’ Of course we had to go and buy shoes, bring them back, and I told her,
‘mija, take these shoes to the little girl that you saw didn’t have shoes on.’ Lesson learned, just
about two years ago, we were talking about memories. And my daughter brought that up, that
she’ll never forget that time. So we really sometimes don’t know that teach you the moments that
are there, that are there.
H-What about the institutional church, how-I mean you said your grandmother sent you to
church.
P-Yeah.
H-Were you an altar boy?
P-Yes. Yes I was an altar boy. As a matter of fact, when I graduated from elementary school at
Fanon, when they ask you want do you want to do when you you know graduate and you grow
up and all that, I literally said, ‘I want to be a priest’ haha. I remember my mom and some of my*Spanish 15:19*.
All Laugh
P-‘What’s wrong with you?’Haha, you know. ‘What do you mean you want to be a priest?’ And
that’s the only thing that came to mind because in those days, for us, especially being an altar
boy, the priests were just, I mean great, you know? And I had Father Bob, I’ll never forget him.
He was the kindest person. The only thing I remember about him also is that he used to have
saliva that would always creep up the sides of his mouth.
All Laugh
P-But he was real nice. There was another priest there one time that-I was kind of heavy. And I
put on the thing before you put the white thing I forget what you call it.
H-The cassock.
P-Yeah the cassock. And it didn’t fit me. So of course I went and got the one that fit me. So-and
I was ready to go out and the priest comes in and he’s looking all over the place and then he sees
that I’m wearing-which was hisH-Laughs
P-and he kicked meH-Oh wow.
P-and to this day I’ll never forget that.
H-Laughs
P-But again, going back-the church, the institutional church was-it was almost like you were
afraid, you know? God was you know this person who saw everything. ‘*Spanish 16:38-16:43*’.
And so you had this God that was a snitch you know, he was always-I’ll never forget one time I
went out and we were playing in the neighborhood and I used a cuss word. So uh-then I heard,
‘Roberto, Robertito, ROBERTO!’ You know and when I heard that Roberto loud and clear I
said, ‘uh oh’. So I headed home. And I said, ‘what happened? Que paso mama?’ She said,
‘*Spanish 17:13*’ Do I eat with that same mouth? I said, ‘por que?’ ‘*Spanish 17:19*’ And she
told me the bad word that I had used and scared the heck out of us. ‘How in the heck-how could
she have heard me?’
H-Laughs
P-And then I remember God sees everything, haha. I said, ‘man *Spanish 17:32* is stupid man’.
All Laugh
P-But I learned my lesson you know, again, about cursing because what had happened of course
the neighbor heard me using a cuss word, she called my mother, tells my mother that I was
cussing, and I swear, the neighborhood back then-and I know this is away from the question
from what you were asking about the church, but in my estimate, that was a church.
H-Uh huh.
P-The church was a building, but the community was the church. We watched out for each other.
We took it-I remember us as young kids too. There was a man in the neighborhood called
Chorré. And every weekend he would get drunk. And we had some dogs in the neighborhood
and Chorré would come in and he’d be weaving. And the dogs would come out. So we knew that
Chorré would come in drunk. So we would go and literally walk into the house, make sure the
dogs would not be there. And he was an African American, but this is the kind of protection we
had with each other, and I think it was part of being church. That church-I mean later on, that’s
when I discovered what church is about you know?
H-What did you do when you finished high school?
P-When I finished high school?
H-Yeah.
P-I went to San Antonio College, for a couple of semesters. Are you talking about school or justH-Right, right, school, yeah.
P-Yeah I went to San Antonio College for a couple of semester, then dropped out, I didn’t-then I
went to work for Nolten’s Creamery.
H-Uh huh.
P-It was a push boy is what they call it. I would go into the grocery stores and go into the fridge,
and they had the whole section for Nolten’s products. You know the milk and all that. And my
job was to go and fill it up again, you know refill it up. And I would go to different places andH-Uh huh.
P-different stores and then after that I got tired of that and I enrolled at St. Philip’s College. And
that was another experience because the majority of the students there were African Americans.
And they-and then there were a lot of students that were there that were-they were from the
service and they were going because they were being paid to go.
H-Uh huh.
P-And there was a little, oh, mentoring there in a way that we resisted because these guys were
there just for the money, they were not really helping out in learning and what have you.
H-What did you have in-what was your goal when you were-when you went back to St. Philip’s?
What did you want to do with your education?
P-I didn’t-well OK let me just go back to the words that we always had in the family, that you
had to graduate from high school, other words-otherwise you *Spanish 20:50* you know, you’re
going to be a garbage man. And even that is a story in itself. I remember that to me, I wanted
when I grew up, I remember my grandmother said, ‘*Spanish 21:03-21:10*’
H-Laughs
P-I had no question about it. And you had to kind of understand how we saw *Spanish words
describing garbage man? 21:18*.
H-Uh huh.
P-Here are the kids during summer time and here comes this garbage man you know. And here’s
this guy driving this big old truck with a little handkerchief hanging on to the side, no shirt just a
little, t-I don’t know what they call them, um, well the ones with out sleeves you know.
H-Right, right, camisetas.
P-Yeah camisetas. And then of course they had the guy that was inside the garbage truck. They
didn’t have those push things then, then the guy would have to squash the trash down. And then
my hero was the guy that would go pick up the trash you know. And the truck would take off and
we’d be there looking at it. *Whistles* And they’d whistle and they guy took off man. And he’d
pick up the can, and get the can and just throw it over his head, didn’t even look if it was going
in the right direction. And the guy inside would just catch it. And *makes smashing noises* two
jerks and that was it, and then flip it up and that can would become like that, and the man’s
running you know. And then he turns around pow catches that can, drops that can, and that can
would just whistle like that.
H-Laughs
P-What more could I want, haha, I mean, that was as good asH-ExactlyP-As the ice man came, haha. Ice man would come into the neighborhood, and man, like we’d
hide, and then as soon as the guy went to deliver the ice, we’d jump on there and grab pieces of
ice and then we’d throw them in a bag or something like that. But that in itself too-and this-the
ice man too, I mean the guy would come out with an ice pick. And there was this huge block of
ice. And this guy, I mean, Robin Hood had nothing as a swordsman. I mean this guy grabbed his
ice pick and he’d just take it out of his cap, flip it up, catch it, and *mimics sound of ice pick*
and five or six pieces just fell to the ground. And then he’d grab that thing with the pliers or
whatever they were. And he knew we were looking, and he’d give it a little jerk, and that ice
would just go like that and he’d just walk around with it. And I said,H-Laughs
P-I mean, ‘I don’t want to be a cop, I don’t want to be a fireman, I don’t want to be a teacher, I
want to be a garbage man.’
H-Yeah.
P-‘Or at least an ice man’ you know.
All Laugh
P-So anyway, those are the-we never had real high expectations as to furthering our education
and getting-I mean like for us in the old neighborhood again, you know, I shined shoes, I used to
go on Saturdays, we used to go down on Houston Street there was a river and we’d go down
there, it wasn’t deep, and serviceman would go and throw coins.
H-Uh huh.
P-And we’d pick up the coins. I remember I would go and get just enough money, I think it was
thirty five cents for a movie, a candy, and a bus ride back home. And I’d go in there, take my
shoes off and just pick up enough money for that. I shined shoes. My uncle had a shoe shop. And
my mother got me a shine stand, paid, at that time, twenty nine dollars was a lot of money. And
we were charging ten cents for a shine so you weren’t making too much money. But the idea was
that I was doing something. And then my stepfather was a butcher and he would take me on
weekends and I would help out at the butcher shop. My father had a grocery store and they
would sell barbacoa. And he had me clean out those darn barrels after they were-they’d put the
heads of the cow in there and they’d steam it and then Sunday morning they would pull it out
and sell it you know. So it would leave the-I had to clean that stuff up.
So anyway, those were the little job experiences like the big thing in our neighborhood
was when Handy Andy opened up. And I went and applied for the job and I got it. I’ll never
forget this guy, Peter Mendiola, from junior school, he went and applied and he went in and said,
‘I’d like to talk to Mr. Handy Andy please.’
All Laugh
P-So we let-‘hey pendejo,’H-Laughs
P-I said, ‘there’s no Handy Andy man’ haha. But anyway, just how we thought of things you
know so he went and applied and of course he got the job too but-and being a package boy, that
wasn’t as easy as it sounds.
H-Uh huh.
P-You had to pack up that stuff and in and out-and in those days you know Handy Andy was-and
then HEB came in later. I was promoted to HEB and then I was promoted from package boy to
the produce department. So anyway those were the kind of the starting points as far as work was
concerned. Then I started meeting people, getting along with people and there’s where they
offered me jobs. I got a job working for a finance company. And there I had to wear a tie and all
that kind of stuff. And I worked there for about almost two years and I quit because I was-I made
collection manager. And the majority of the customers were poor folks that lived in the courts.
And they fell behind and I had to go out and collect. I ended up buying them groceries and not
collecting the money. Finally my mentor, ‘that’s you know you’re spending more money than
you’re making’ you know. So anyway I quit that and I went into the clothing business. And I
started working with Robert Hall. Robert Hall is *sings-‘when their prices go up, up, up, and
their values go down, down, down, Robert Hall is the reason’* haha. This season for, haha. I
remember that so-but those were the kind of the-and like I said, I was exposed to other folks, you
know, and selling. And I think that that was, for lack of a better-a gift that I had for interacting
with people.
H-What drew you into politics and into the moyimeinto?
P-That also was um-it was very ironic. I was in my twenties. That’s when Jose Angél Gutierrez
was very strong. That’s when the whole Chicano Movement started. I really didn’t even know
what Chicano stood for then. All I know, again, being brought up the way I was is that they were
no-nos, they were bad guys, they were guys that were just gangs in a sense that were just angry,
angry people, angry at things.
H-Uh huh.
P-And I remember I had a cousin that was in the air force, and he was in a special unit that was
for community control, neighborhood control. Their task was to go into the areas where there
was-looked like there was trouble startingH-Uh huh.
P-and they’d try to find out what it was. So anyway I had this cousin and he was in love with
Jose Angél Gutierrez who at the time was a leader in the Chicano Movement. And he kept telling
me he wanted me to go see him, and at that time I had a nice job, I wore a coat and tie and
everything, I was considered myself a little bit more intellectual than being in a crowd and
hollering and all that kind of stuff.
Because even that-when I was working at Handy Andy I remember I got a job working in
the produce with my uncle. And my grandfather had gotten sick and he had to quit his job. But
my grandfather was very restless and he wanted to do something. So I asked the manager if he
had any openings, and he said that he might need someone part time to be a janitor, to clean up
the-and I asked my grandfather, ‘*agrees in Spanish 30:05*. So they gave him the job and, again,
these are the little things that trigger things and they stay in your mind and later on they just
explode. I remember one day that my grandfather was-he had heart trouble so he was mopping
the isle and he stopped and he put his head on the mop, and just kind of catching his breath. And
this lady came up and said, ‘that’s why you Mexicans never amount to anything. You can’t finish
a job that you start, you all are lazy, lazy, lazy.’ And I heard her man, and I don’t know if my
grandfather understood everything she was saying. ‘Hey!’ I said, ‘hey’ ran up and he grabbed me
by the hand and he said, ‘*Spanish 30:51*’ ‘don’t say a thing, we’ll talk after work.’ And I was
so angry, I still wanted to go ask that lady-just because hey that’s my grandfather. You don’t talk
to my grandfather that way. I wasn’t thinking about racism or prejudice or even-I was just
thinking that’s my grandfather no one talks to him that way. After it was all over with I
remember that my grandfather told me, ‘mira mijo’-he was a very gentle man, loving man, and
he always talked to me with a lot of respect. He would always say ‘mira mijo’-I’m saying in
Spanish, he says, ‘*Spanish 31:29-31:40’*. And at the time, it didn’t make too much, excuse me,
it didn’t make too much senseH-Uh huh.
P-but that stayed in my mind. The guys that I was seeing were gritando.
H-Uh huh.
P-They were gritando. *Spanish 31:58*. A lot of our other folks.
H-Uh huh.
P-You know it takes a man who can control himself.
H-Uh huh.
P-That’s a man, he says. That someone who just knows how to holler doesn’t amount to a hill of
beans and that was kind of the logic that was there. So ingrained in my mind, I always thought,
when I would see these guys-and they were at rallies all the time and they were always angry and
there was hollering and doing various sign language with them.