CITIES OF OREM AND PROVO
SPECIAL JOINT MEETING
May 13, 2003
This meeting was for discussion purposes only. No action was taken.
CONDUCTING
Doug Forsyth, Orem Mayor Pro Tem
PROVO ELECTED OFFICIALS
Councilmembers Mark Hathaway, Dave Knecht, Stan
Lockhart, and Barbara Sandstrom
OREM ELECTED OFFICIALS
Mayor Jerry C. Washburn; Councilmembers Dean
Dickerson, Doug Forsyth, Karen McCandless, and
Shiree Thurston.
OREM STAFF
Donna Weaver, City Recorder.
PROVO STAFF
Mike Mower, Mayor’s Office.
Mayor Washburn opened the meeting at 12:15 p.m. and turned the time over to Jerry Ortiz,
Orem Recreation Director, who provided a tour of the new Scera Park Pools complex.
Traffic on I-15
Mayor Washburn updated the councils on the meeting he attended yesterday with the Governor
on Traverse Ridge about the need for improvements on I-15 in Utah County. Mayor Washburn
indicated Mountainlands Association of Governments (MAG) was able to get approval a year
ago for an environmental study for the Utah County I-15 expansion. The study is a critical first
step and must take place before any construction can begin. It will take three years to be
completed. UDOT is interested in putting another I-15 access at 800 South in Orem to take some
of the pressure off the University Parkway interchange. He stated the Orem Council is not
excited about that proposal.
UTA
Mr. Mower informed the councils that UTA is preparing a special meeting about commuter rail
and would provide a VIP train trip. He said there is a lot of support for commuter rail in Utah
County.
Mayor Washburn asked how Provo’s bus service is, because Orem’s does not function well. The
routes mostly run between Brigham Young University (BYU) and Utah Valley State College
(UVSC).
Mr. Lockhart stated bus ridership is less than 1 percent of the population, and Mr. Mower agreed,
saying the bus routes have worked well for students but not the general population.
Joint Orem/Provo City Council Minutes – May 13, 2003 (p.1)
Mr. Forsyth wondered how to get more people to ride the bus.
Mr. Knecht remarked that the bus routes are not convenient. He suggested it might be cheaper to
subsidize cab fares than run the buses.
Mr. Lockhart declared the problem is with the $.25 tax increase being proposed by UTA. The
funds would go to UTA to distribute, and the taxpayers in Utah County might not see any benefit
from the additional tax. He noted that senior management at UTA earns double the highest paid
state official. The UTA pay and bonuses are astronomical. Mr. Lockhart expressed concern that
where Utah County used to have three members on the UTA Board, there are now only two
members. The Board has always been dysfunctional, because there was an even number of
members, and they would experience gridlock. Now that they have an odd number of members,
there may be less of that. Because Utah County has not adopted the transportation tax, UTA
representatives went to the legislature and had the county’s number of representatives on the
board decreased.
Mayor Washburn commented that a lot of money is being spent for buses that are mostly unused.
Mr. Mower remarked that the Flextrans system, while expensive, is working very well. There
are a number of bus lines that work well, but many others that do not. He said he thinks the
commuter rail system would be well used.
Mr. Hathaway said it is important to get the legislature to understand the problems with the
system. It is important to fight the right battle.
Mr. Lockhart stated there is no love lost for UTA in the legislature. The UTA system is broken.
The first change that should be made is to give the transportation tax revenues to the county
government, and let the Council of Governments (COG) handle it. UTA is working to get a onecent tax throughout the state. He declared there must be a better solution. UTA pushed to get
the residents in Davis County to vote for the tax with promises of commuter rail, but then UTA
put in the second phase of light rail in Salt Lake City instead. It was a case of “bait and switch.”
Mayor Washburn said there is a stigma associated with riding the bus, and UTA has tried to
address that in Davis County by giving them nice new buses. He said he does not believe Utah
County would get any of those.
Mrs. Thurston reflected that empty buses wear out the streets and pollute the air.
Mayor Washburn indicated he believes light rail, commuter rail, and high-speed rapid transit
would work, but UTA will not provide those services to Utah County without the sales tax
increase. Because of the way UTA has distributed the revenues in the past, he is not anxious to
go to battle for the tax.
Mrs. McCandless asked how to get organized to meet Utah County’s needs.
Joint Orem/Provo City Council Minutes – May 13, 2003 (p.2)
Mayor Washburn said the system works better when several communities are in a transit
district—perhaps on a county level. Right now the taxes are based upon individual cities, and it
would require a vote of the people to change that.
Mr. Mower remarked it would be cost prohibitive to bring in some of the smaller communities.
Mr. Hathaway said perhaps something could be done if the two largest cities in the county
worked together to find a solution.
Mayor Washburn stated MAG should be asked to help with this. There might also be some
benefit in inviting UTA come to a joint meeting. He said he would be attending a meeting with
the local UTA manager tomorrow.
Mr. Lockhart suggested the service in Utah County be reduced, and Mayor Washburn agreed,
saying the money saved should be credited to the cities, though UTA would resist that.
Mr. Mower said UTA ridership overall is up, but it is necessary to pin UTA down to a route-toroute comparison. That is where the problems will show up.
Mr. Lockhart stated before the voters will approve a tax increase they must be shown that the
current tax revenues are being used efficiently.
Mrs. Sandstrom asked if there is some way to designate where the tax increase revenues would
go.
Mayor Washburn agreed, saying UTA should have to identify what Utah County would get and
when. The money should be escrowed for specific projects in this county.
Mr. Lockhart said the residents would vote for that.
Mayor Washburn suggested that Darrell Cook of MAG could be invited to come and explain to
the councils where UTA is at and where it is going.
Mr. Lockhart voiced concern that Darrell Cook spends too much of his time defining the
problem. Mr. Lockhart said he is yet to hear a financial analysis on how to meet the state’s
extensive needs.
Mr. Knecht noted that I-15 is approaching a failure level, and the buses are empty.
Mr. Forsyth declared that if something is going to happen, Orem and Provo will have to push for
it.
Tenant Ordinance
Mrs. Thurston inquired how the tenant issue is coming in Provo.
Joint Orem/Provo City Council Minutes – May 13, 2003 (p.3)
Mr. Mower said the council approved eleven areas around BYU for the new tenant restrictions.
The mayor has not yet decided if he will sign it.
Mr. Knecht noted there is a variety of neighborhoods involved. While about 82 percent of the
city is R1 residential zoning, only half the population lives there. The other half is in highdensity areas.
Next Meeting
Provo will host the next meeting on Tuesday, July 1, 2003.
Adjournment
The meeting adjourned at 1:36 p.m.
Donna Weaver, City Recorder
Approved: May 27, 2003
Joint Orem/Provo City Council Minutes – May 13, 2003 (p.4)