AIRPORT OPERATORS ASSOCIATION
OPERATIONS AND SAFETY COMMITTEE
RFFS WORKING GROUP
Minutes of meeting held on Wednesday October 8th 2014 at 3 Birdcage Walk, London, SWIH 9JJ
Present
Paul Clarkson (PC)
John Foskett
Steve Armstrong
S. Woodward
Graeme Day (GD)
Graham Simpson (GS)
Andy Fraser (AF)
Seamus McMahon
Gary O’Neil
Paul Hardiman (PH)
Daren Barthram (DB)
Nathan Deverell
Gary Moorshead
Martin Stubbs
AOA Chair
Southampton
Newcastle
Liverpool
LHR Airports Limited
Newquay
CAA
Belfast
Bristol Airport
AFOA
Stansted
Southend
Babcock International
Aberdeen
Apologies
John Trew
Bob Leslie
Colin Murray
Symon Clifford
Bill Kitchen
Sharon Preston (SP)
IAFPA
Glasgow
Training Forum Chair
Edinburgh
Cardiff Airport
London City Airport
1.
Welcome
PC welcomed everyone to the meeting
2. Apologies for Absence
Apologies were noted.
3. Approval of previous minutes
PC verified the content of the previous meeting dated March 5th 2014.
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4. Matters Arising from Minutes of Last Meeting
4.1 A discussion took place about the HMRC’s position regarding the use of Red Diesel. PC stated
that the AOA would lobby HMRC for a 12 month lead in time prior to the RFFS having to use
white diesel in its fleet
5. AFOA Update
5.1 PH confirmed that the 2014 AFOA Conference in Dublin had been a great success attended
by 165 delegates. AFOA is looking to strengthen its links with CFOA and has been invited to
discuss widening the scope of the Conference with the Irish CFOA. The Committee is now
preparing for the January 2015 Conference and have secured the Incident Commander from San
Francisco to talk about the 777 incident
5.2 The first Panther User Group was held in June and was well attended. Presentations were
also given by Michelin and the Central Training Group. The next meeting is scheduled for
26.11.14 in Batley with presentations being given by Caterpillar, Twin Disk and Rosenbaur.
5.3 The Foam Master-class held in September was well received and another is being planned
for 2015. A TRA workshop is also being planned for 2015.
6. AOA Update
6.1 PC confirmed that the HMRC’s policy regarding the use of red diesel by the RFFS had been
discussed at the AOA Operations and Safety Committee. CAA will be meeting HMRC in
December 2014 to discuss the situation.
6.2 PC urged the Group to take part in the CAA consultation regarding CAP 699. The CAA has
agreed that the AOA RFFS Working Group will take the lead in a review of training material
and CAP 699 once the consultation period has finished at the end of October 2014. AF
stated that the CAA will not be directed by the results of the survey. An extraordinary RFFS
WG meeting will take place later in 2014 to discuss the CAP 699 review, the Training
Forum and the FSM seminar.
6.3 PC stated that the CAA has expressed concerns about the implementation of the revised
TRA process. The CAA wish to lead a programme to improve the process which will include
AOA, RFFS and FRS representation. The aim is provide industry with a benchmark template
for TRAs. After some debate, the RFFS WG view was that the review should have taken
place before the CAA TRA IN was issued and that benchmarking would be difficult because
of the varying risk profiles at airports of the same RFFS Category.
7. BA Update
7.1 GD stated that a BA working group had met at Gatwick on 27.01.14 and at Heathrow on
30.04.14 to discuss the implications of the new National BA guidance for the RFFS. The
main points were circulated at these meetings and discussed. A further meeting with the
lead officer for FRS Tactical Operational Guidance will be held at Surrey FRS HQ in
November.
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7.2 PH asked if any airports were providing BAIs with refresher training. Discussion revealed
that this was not happening.
8. CAA Update
8.1 AF gave the following CAA update:
8.2 AF advised all that the following are the appointed attendees for the forums listed below:
 AOA RFFS working group (Andy Fraser)
 AFOA (Neil Gray)
 FSM (Graeme Ritchie)
 General Oversight (Allocated Inspectors)
8.3 RFFS Training (EASA Transition)
The transition to Commission Regulation (EU) 139/2014 has raised the potential for some
changes to the regulatory requirements regarding training for RFFS personnel.
 IN-2014/133 released to Industry on Friday 8th August 2014.
 Survey went live to Industry at the same time.
 Courtesy email sent to ATP’s informing them of the IN.
 Survey closed to Industry on the 31st October 2014 – Results will be communicated to
industry in due course.
 Extraordinary meeting planned by AOA in November following survey results.
8.4 Task and Resource Analysis
It has been noted that since the publication of the IN relating to T&RA that there have been a
number of airports that have reviewed their T&RA and reduced crewing levels. Some clearly
indicate changes i.e. investment in new technologies (vehicles and extinguishing agent) and CAA
supports and accepts the new technologies and the safety benefits that such changes bring.
CAA is concerned that, as a result of the TRA reviews, that the IN and CAP 1150 are not being
implemented in the way intended. It appears that some airports have reviewed T&RA without
any clear change being evident. Such changes should also be in line with any associated SMS
process (es).
8.5
EASA RMT.0589 RFFS at Aerodromes
The Group which was established by EASA is made up of 8 members, 3 from National Aviation
Authorities (NAA’s) and 5 from Airports Council International (ACI) Europe. The Secretary is
Vasileious Stefanioros, Owen Healey is the Chair and Graeme Day is an active member.
The purpose of the group is to review and amend the text within the EASA AMC and Guidance
Material, specifically:


AMC1 ADR.OPS.B.010(a)(4) – Medical Standards for RFFS Personnel.
AMC2 ADR.OPS.B.010(a)(2) – RFFS Level of Protection.
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
GM4 ADR.OPS.B010(a)(2) – Reduction of RFFS Aerodrome Category (remission factor
and cargo aircraft operations)
Four meetings have been planned, two of which have taken place (May & July), the next
meeting scheduled for 21-23 October will be followed by the final meeting in December 2014.
Graeme Day is Chair of the ACI RFFSWG and keeps his membership appraised of the EASA
group’s progress in line with the following time lines:
Publication of NPA:
End of commenting period:
Opinion/Decision:
8.6
Q1/2015 (March)
Q2/2015 (June)
Q1/2016 (March)
Difficult Environs Survey
A self-assessment Survey was sent to 127 UK licensed aerodromes consisting, 88 completed
returns. A very high percentage of the larger aerodromes completed the survey. Non-returns
were mainly by small aerodromes this may be due to the introduction of the General Aviation
Unit.
The survey was prompted by the Super Puma accident which took place approximately 1.5 nm
west of Sumburgh Airport, and the subsequent AAIB safety recommendation.
The survey identified a number of findings;
Key ones were:  Response time requirements: (AAIB linked to survival times).
 Response capability for remote island locations.
 Contingency arrangements.
 Movements by aircraft that do not require the use of a licensed aerodrome.
 Weather and tidal dependencies.
 Access to difficult environment.
 Testing and exercising.
The purpose of the survey was to:  Share lessons learned with all UK licensed aerodromes at venues such as AFOA meetings
and similar Seminars.
 Undertake a difficult environs systemic review of licensed aerodromes within the UK
through our oversight activity.
 Provide guidance in relation to emergency plan testing aligned to the requirements (this
may be in the form of a new IP / CAP.
AF added that Tommy Murney would like to express his thanks to all those that participated
in the survey with, special thanks to HIAL who were particularly supportive in sharing the
learning outcomes from the Sumburgh incident.
8.7
DfT – Road safety exemption
A brief was provided on the current status of the speed limit exemption as follows:
 DfT received 42 such applications.
 DfT propose to exempt ‘purposes’ rather than companies or organisations.
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8.8
CAA has fed back to DfT on the potential wording of any exemption related to RFFS; it
includes reference to Cat 3 – 10 aerodromes, licensed aerodromes (CAP168) and
Certificated Aerodromes (EASA).
DfT has proposed a risk based approach to determining when the use of any exemption
would be appropriate.
Those permitted to use the exemption must behave responsibly.
Appropriate training must be provided.
The expectation is that there will be an audit trail which must show who took the
decision for a vehicle to exceed the speed limit on every occasion that it does.
This is not confirmation that RFFS can exceed the speed limit; there are further legal
stages that must be completed.
No timescale can be confirmed yet.
DfT – National Aviation Security Programme (NASP)
AF stated that all aerodromes could be affected by this and at the meeting he had attended at
Manchester, funding assistance was discussed. D. Barthram confirmed that the Stansted
exercise event had incurred quite significant cost and this was being recovered from HMG.
HMG plans to introduce a revised Nationally Managed Plan (NMP) for dealing with airborne
aircraft under actual or potential threat. This includes arrangements for dealing with such
aircraft upon landing. Whilst the oversight of this is a DfT function, CAA and DfT are discussing
the possibility that CAA could provide oversight through its current, and future, oversight
programmes. This is currently WIP but it is recommended that Aerodrome Operators have a
look at their current arrangements (in partnership with other agencies) to see if they are up to
date and fit for purpose.
8.9
Theme items
No specific theme items have been set for the 2014 – 15 period however AAA (Aerodromes)
main objectives are:  EASA Transition
 SMS phase 2 evaluations – AF stated that it was not clear whether or not this type of
assessment would continue in the future and noted that no attempt as yet had been
made to assess the ‘excellence and best practice’ markers.
 Transition to Performance Based Regulation (PBR)/Oversight – AF Stated that new
processes were slowly being implemented within CAA as part of the PBR/O rollout and
that those changes were being highlighted to industry during in-briefs and other visits
and were as follows: The introduction of Internal Review Meetings (IRM – this is an
internal process) where the aerodrome and other stakeholders i.e. entities such as
airlines are discussed and other risks shared with CAA colleagues. The introduction of an
Accountable Manager (AM) meeting the purpose of which was for the CAA to share the
risk picture identified from the IRM. Also, some new tools have been introduced and
developed to support the above changes.
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
AF Stated that dependent on the aerodromes performance this may have an impact on
the frequency of visits i.e. if performance was poor then they would be more frequent
and if good then oversight would more than likely be as per the current timeframe.
9. EASA Update
9.1 GD updated the meting about the work of the EASA RMT and ACI Europe Working Group.
Power point slides are attached to these minutes.
10. FSM Seminar
10.1 PC stated that Edinburgh Airport had been the only ATP to submit an application to hold
the 2015 FSM Seminar. The meeting agreed that the Seminar should therefore, be held in
Edinburgh. PC will write to Tony Storer to confirm this.
10.2 A debate took place regarding the future format of FSM seminars, maintaining CPD, the
purpose of seminars and conferences and their relevance to the way the RFFS works and
trains.
10.3 PC stated that these issues would be discussed in the extraordinary meeting of the AOA
RFFS WG scheduled for later this year.
11. AOB
11.1 GS stated the JESIP training is available throughout the UK. AFMs are advised to liaise
with their local FRS representatives to ensure that the RFFS is included in future training.
11.2 SA raised the issue of providing RFFS cover for flights operated by a Royal Family from the
Middle East. DB stated that Stansted receives requests from similar operators but cover is
not strictly required as such flights are classed as private movements.
11.3 PC raised a question on behalf of SP regarding shadowing RFFS personnel from other
airports in order to share good practice especially with regard to the management of
MOC schemes. The Group felt that this would be difficult to achieve because of insurance
constraints.
11.4 PC stated that he would arrange a date for the Extraordinary AOA RFFS WG with John
Ingledew
12. Date of next meeting
The next AOA RFFS WG meeting will be held at Birdcage Walk on March 4th 2015 at 1030 hours.
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Actions:
Date
Action
04 October 2011
Halon replacement to remain on agenda.
03.10.12
Paul Clarkson and Simon Webb to provide feedback to
Edinburgh Airport and IFTC regarding their 2013 FSM
Seminar submissions.
Simon Webb to raise the matter of ATPs cancelling
courses at the next Training Forum meeting.
Steve Armstrong to forward aircraft recovery information
to Graeme Day
SW to draw up more detailed guidance for FSM
seminars.
SW to review the CAA statement regarding the use of
CO2 on helicopters and apply to fixed wing scenarios.
SW agreed to contact the Cabinet office in order to
capture good practice of joint working and exercise
scenarios.
GD asked to set up an AOA sub-group to look at the
implications of the new BA guidance for RFFS personnel.
SW agreed to contact CFOA regarding a route for
comments relating to the new BA guidance
PC agreed to write to write to the organisations that had
submitted 2014 FSM Seminar applications informing
them of the Group’s decision.
03.10.12
03.10.12
06.03.13
06.03.13
02.10.13
02.10.13
02.10.13
02.10.13
02.10.13
05.03.14
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Minute
Name
Comments
Date Closed
CAA
PC/SW
5.1
06.03.13
8.1
SW
02.10.13
8.2
SA
06.03.13
4.1
SW
02.10.13
7.1
SW
02.10.13
4.2
SW
08.10.14
5.2
GD
5.3
SW
8.2
PC
SW agreed to raise the matter of issuing NOTAMS when 9.3
RFFS crews respond to medical calls with CAA colleagues.
SW
GD to contact HMRC regarding the use of red diesel by 10.3
the RFFS
GD
BA working group has met
on 27.01.14 and 30.04.14
08.10.14
Letters sent 09.10.13
09.10.13
08.10.14
AOA RFFS Working Group
08.10.14