Energy Efficiency in Private Sector Houses
Working group meeting 1 – Thistle House, 30 April 2013
Minutes
Present
Elizabeth Leighton (EL), Existing Homes Alliance
Michael Bruce (MB), Scottish Land and Estates,
Annie McGovern (AM), Consumer Focus Scotland
Stephen Garland (SG), Scottish Government - Chair
Valerie Sneddon (VS), Scottish Government
Jamie Robertson (JR), Scottish Government
Denise Buchanan (DB), Scottish Government
Apologies
Jim Hayton, ALACHO
Silke Isbrand, COSLA
Norrie Kerr, Fuel Poverty Forum
Roger Curtis, Historic Scotland
John Blackwood, Scottish Association of Landlords
1. Welcome and Introductions
1.1.
SG welcomed members to the working group and confirmed that the purpose
of the meeting was to introduce participants to each other, look at whether we
are addressing the correct top level workstreams, and whether we have the
evidence to support them.
1.2.
There is an internal Scottish Government working group that includes
colleagues from climate change and private rented sector interests, as well as
economists and statisticians, which will run in parallel to this group. We can
invite them to the working group as necessary. It was noted that this would be
important to ensure that knowledge of all aspects of the subject area was
included in sufficient depth.
Action 1.1: Project team (SG, VS and DB) to circulate a list of the areas within the
Scottish Government represented on the internal working group.
1.3.
We discussed the success criteria for the group. Overall success for the
project will be that people are prepared to engage with the idea of appropriate
regulations at the point at which we go out to consultation. The potential for a
significant negative response by the public and potential political
consequences of mass rejection of regulation was discussed.
1.4.
We noted the possible relevance of the ECHR legislation, as the subject of
the regulations would be people’s homes. The Supreme Court judgement
defeating Scottish Government/Scottish Parliament legislation on agricultural
holdings was given as an example. We confirmed that Scottish Government
legal colleagues will be involved throughout the process to ensure that any
regulations comply with legislation.
Action 1.2: MB will circulate a link to the recent ECHR case
Action 1.3: Project team to provide a list of commonly used acronyms
1.5.
We noted in particular the need to engage with owners throughout this
process, particularly as there is no representative body for house owners in
the same way as there are for other interests (such as the private rented
sector or environmental interests). Whilst this is recognised through the
proposed Communication workstream, which is likely to include market
research into people’s motivations for, attitudes towards and capacity to
deliver energy efficiency, it is something which the group may wish to discuss
in more detail at a later forum.
Action 1.4: The group will consider the issue of home owner representation on an
on-going basis
2. Remit and Principles
2.1.
The group considered paper EEPS1/1. We agreed that the remit for the group
is to develop draft regulations for consultation by 2015, as agreed by the
Sustainable Housing Strategy Group (SHSG) (as EEPS1/2). There was some
discussion as to whether the name of the group adequately reflected this.
2.2.
We agreed the membership of the core group was right (subject to action 1.4)
and that we can involve other groups as necessary, by inviting them to the
core group and/or to participate in sub-groups.
2.3.
The group noted the arrangements for papers, and that we propose that
papers and minutes will normally be available on the Scottish Government
website. We agreed that the group will aim to meet every two months.
2.4.
The paper proposed that the group will use the Housing Policy Advisory
Group (HPAG)1 as a sounding board for reporting. We noted, however, that
some members of the group had concerns over the capacity of the HPAG to
take on this role at the moment, and that the future of the SHSG was to be
discussed at its next meeting.
Action 1.5: The group will return to the issue of reporting once the outcome of the
discussions at SHSG is known.
2.5.
There was some discussion around the scope set out in the paper, which we
clarified only related to the scope of the regulations. We agreed that it would
be useful to expand this to set out the scope of the project as a whole. In
particular we will amend the scope to:
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1
include work on engaging with owners and landlords, behaviour
change/attitudes and information provision/ communication
http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Topics/Built-Environment/Housing/reform/hpag




2.6.
include consideration of additional trigger points – for example whether
standards should apply at point of sale or rental, and/or other
interventions such as consequential improvements; and whether a
phased approach may be appropriate
include consideration of different regulatory options – for example,
whether these may be different by building/tenure type and location
(urban/rural)
expand the line on “impact assessments” to also include owners of
properties as an example
the need to look at implementation issues at the same time as
considering the outcomes the regulations we’re aiming to achieve, so
that a balanced strategic approach is considered
We will also clarify that although condition and other related issues are
included as being outwith scope they will still be relevant to discussions.
Action 1.6: Project team will revise the scope section of EEPS1/1.
2.7.
We noted that Homes that don’t cost the earth consulted on principles to
underpin work to develop minimum standards. A number of responses
expanded on the existing principles, and we agreed that “enforceable” should
be added to these principles to take account of feedback to the consultation.
2.8.
We discussed external relations and the Energy Act requirements for
minimum standards for energy efficiency in the private rented sector in
England and Wales by 2018. We noted that the internal working group
includes colleagues who have links with the work being done by the
Department for Energy and Climate Change (DECC) and the Department for
Communities and Local Government (DCLG). There was also some
discussion about the need for expert advice on, for example, assessment
process, the accuracy of EPCs and ventilation/condensation issues. And
working group members agreed to share information on what is happening in
other European countries.
Action 1.7: Project team will provide updates to the working group meetings on
progress in England and Wales on an on-going basis.
Action 1.8: Project team and group will draw in other outside expertise as
necessary, for example on the detail of assessment and the role of EPCs.
2.9.
The group noted that the Scottish Government will carry out a Business and
Regulatory Impact Assessment (BRIA). This will be on-going throughout the
process and will be published in draft as part of the consultation on
regulations.
3. Current Energy Efficiency in Private Sector Housing
3.1.
JR introduced paper 4 on energy efficiency in the private sector (EEPS1/4).
The presentation explained some of the observed differences in energy
efficiency (SAP) ratings and carbon emissions between social, owned and
privately rented housing. There was some discussion about whether issues
such as floor sizes also had an impact, how running and upgrade costs were
calculated, and the potential implication of these on costs.
3.2.
We confirmed that we will draw on other sources of information, or
commission further research, as necessary (for example to be picked up as
part of the work around the evidence workstream).
4. Proposed workstreams and timescales
4.1.
VS introduced Paper 5 on the proposed process and timescales for taking
forward this group (EEPS1/5).
4.2.
There was broad support for the idea of breaking the work down into
workstreams, with some discussion about what issues would be considered
within each of the workstreams proposed, and recognition that a number of
these are interrelated.
4.3.
Some themes will be overarching, such as the work around attitudes and
behaviour change, and evidence gathering. Financial sustainability and
impacts on the market were also raised as particular cross cutting issues.
4.4.
There was some discussion on the proposed work plan, which was set at a
very high level at this stage. We noted that the current proposal is for
consultation by 2015, with a lead-in time before any minimum standards are
introduced. Members of the group identified the need to balance ensuring
there was capacity to meet standards with a need to provide early indications
of any future regulation to provide certainty for the market.
4.5.
It was also noted that the RPP debate suggested support for revisiting the
issue of timescales. The group noted that the current work plan proposes that
the group make recommendations to Ministers on timing by the end of 2014.
4.6.
The project team will provide a more detailed project plan once agreement on
the workstreams has been reached (likely to be following the workshop).
5. Evidence Base
5.1.
The group briefly considered Paper 6 (EEPS1/6) which set out an initial
scoping of the evidence base. We confirmed that we have a budget to
commission research and marketing, but not for consultancy.
5.2.
Consumer Focus has research on tenements and owner occupiers, which will
be included in the list.
5.3.
We will look at what we can learn from the work on Energy Efficiency in the
Social Sector (EESSH).
6. Next Steps and AOB
6.1.
We will organise a “brainstorm” workshop for group members, and potentially
other interests within the Scottish Government, to provide more information
and discussion on each other’s ideas and how the workstreams will work and
what issues they will cover; and to begin to look at what evidence we have
and may need.
Action 1.9: DB to circulate possible workshop dates (to be held by mid-June)
7. Next meeting
7.1.
We will aim to have dates identified for the next two meetings on a rolling
basis (to meet approximately every 2 months, as agreed). It was agreed that
Thistle House was an appropriate venue, though we can consider the use of
video or teleconferencing if that is more convenient.
Action 1.10: DB to Circulate dates for next two main meetings