Impeachment Proceedings
Prayer ...................................................................................................................................................... 2
Proclamation ............................................................................................................................................ 2
Approval of Journal .................................................................................................................................. 3
Calling of the Case .................................................................................................................................. 3
Appearances ........................................................................................................................................... 3
Trial Proper .............................................................................................................................................. 3
Impeachment Trial, Day 20
Thursday, January 11, 2001
AT 2:00 P.M., THE HONORABLE CHIEF JUSTICE HILARIO G. DAVIDE JR.,
PRESIDING OFFICER, CALLED THE RESUMPTION OF THE IMPEACHMENT
TRIAL TO ORDER.
THE SERGEANT AT ARMS [MR. LEONARDO LOPEZ]. Please all rise for the
entrance of Senator-Judges. Please remain standing for the entrance of the
Honorable Senate President-Judge Aquilino Q. Pimentel Jr., and the Honorable Chief
Justice, Hilario G. Davide Jr.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER [CHIEF JUSTICE DAVIDE]. The resumption of the trial
for the impeachment of His Excellency, the President of the Philippines, is now called
to order.
We will be led in prayer by the honorable Senator-Judge Ramon B. Revilla.
Prayer
SEN. REVILLA.
Dakila at makapangyarihang Diyos, muli ang Inyong sambayanan ay natitipon
ngayon sa Bulwagang ito upang ipagpatuloy ang isinasagawang paglilitis sa
Pangulo.
Hinihiling namin ang gabay ng Inyong Banal na Ispiritu, na manatili nawa sa lahat ng
sandali sa puso at diwa ang sinumpaan sa ibabaw ng Banal na Aklat upang sa
pagtupad ng tungkuling ipinagkakatiwala Ninyo sa amin ay manaig ang katotohanan
at nang sa gayon ay maghari ang katarungan at kapayapaan.
Hinihiling din namin na sana ang lahat ng naririto ay maging mahinahon. Nawa'y, sa
aming pagpapasiya, ang tunay na isasaalang-alang ay ang kapakanan at kabutihan
ng bansa.
Ang lahat ng ito'y itinataas namin sa Inyo, Panginoon, taglay ang pag-asa na kami'y
hindi Ninyo bibiguin.
Amen.
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Proclamation
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Please be seated. The Sergeant at Arms shall make the
proclamation.
THE SERGEANT AT ARMS. All persons are commanded to keep silent on pain of
punishment while the Senate is sitting for the trial on the Articles of Impeachment
against Joseph Ejercito Estrada, President of the Philippines.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. The Majority Leader is recognized.
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Approval of Journal
THE MAJORITY LEADER [SEN. TATAD]. Mr. Chief Justice, I move that we now
approve the Journal of the Impeachment Court of Monday, January 8, 2001, copies
of which were distributed yesterday to all the members of this Court.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Is there any objection? [Silence] There being none, the
motion is approved. The Secretary is directed to call the case.
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Calling of the Case
THE SECRETARY [MR. BARBO]. Impeachment Case No. 001-2000 entitled, In the
Matter of the Impeachment of His Excellency, Joseph Ejercito Estrada, President of
the Philippines, for Bribery, Graft and Corruption, Betrayal of Public Trust, and
Culpable Violation of the Constitution.
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Appearances
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. The Majority Leader is recognized.
THE MAJORITY LEADER. Mr. Chief Justice, may I invite the parties to this
Impeachment Trial to enter anew their appearance.
MR. DAZA. For the Defense, Your Honor, same appearances, ready.
REP. APOSTOL. The same appearance, Mr. Chief Justice, for the Prosecution. We
are ready.
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Trial Proper
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. The Majority Leader.
THE MAJORITY LEADER. Mr. Chief Justice, we are now ready to proceed to the trial
proper. It is now the turn of the Senator-Judges to ask questions of witness Jose Luis
Yulo Jr.
Yesterday, the following Senator-Judges registered their reserva-tion; namely, the
Honorable Senator-Judges Guingona, Aquino-Oreta, Legarda-Leviste, Sergio
Osmeña III, Biazon, and this representation.
May we now call Mr. Yulo again to the witness stand under the same oath.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Mr. Yulo. Where is the witness now?
REP. RODRIGUEZ. The witness, Your Honor, is in the holding room.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Let somebody call him.
THE MAJORITY LEADER. Mr. Chief Justice.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. The Majority Leader.
THE MAJORITY LEADER. While the witness is being called, I ask that SenatorJudge Juan Ponce Enrile be recognized on a statement of some importance to the
Court.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. The honorable Senator-Judge Enrile.
SEN. ENRILE. Thank you, Mr. Chief Justice.
Ladies and gentlemen of this judicial House: Before I make my motion, I'd like to
make a preface to it so that I will make clear my position.
Mr. President, Mr. Chief Justice, as I view it, each and every person in this Chamber
has a role to play. He is either a member of the spectator and rightly so in a political
democratic proceedings such as this, or a member of the media, or a member of the
staff, or security that maintain order in this Hall. But the principal protagonists here
and actors are the two contending panels of lawyers representing the Prosecution
and those of the Defense, and we who sit on this side of the Hall sitting judgment
over this proceeding and over this political case. No one else comes here other than
those invited to act as witnesses to events.
Having laid this premise, I would like to state that yesterday, a Member of the Court
used this forum to defend himself and rightly so. And I respect that prerogative and
privilege of a Member of this Court to take the Floor on a matter of... on a question of
privilege to air his views and/or to defend himself and/or to defend the honor and
dignity of this Chamber. But there are certain statements made in the course of the
privilege taken by a Member of this Chamber that ought not to remain in the record
because those statements are accusatory in nature, and not only accusatory in
nature, they serve as a statement of a witness without an oath taken against the
Respondent in this trial.
And because of that, painful as it may be, I have the unpleasant task to make a
motion to expunge from the record all those statements that tend to accuse the
Respondent before us for judgment, as well as to state facts that are, in effect, to be
done only by somebody who sits on that chair under oath, to give witness to a fact
that would help this Court in arriving at an impartial decision when the time comes for
the judgment of this Tribunal.
If anyone of us should feel the need to protect his honor as a member of the Senate,
then either we take the Floor in this Chamber when it functions as a Senate of the
people, as a legislative body or take it, take the matter outside of this Court. I do not
believe that this Court could be used to accuse anybody or to state facts that tend to
prove the guilt or innocence of the respondent while this Court sits in judgment.
And so with that, Mr. Chief Justice, ladies and gentlemen of this Tribunal, I move that
all assertions of the distinguished gentleman from Taguig, Pateros and Muntinglupa
that tend to accuse the Respondent and/or to serve as a witness of a fact against the
Respondent be stricken off the record of this Court.
Thank you.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. The honorable Senator-Judge Renato Cayetano; and
after that, the Majority Leader.
SEN. CAYETANO. With the permission of the Chief Justice.
May I reply to my distinguished colleague from Cagayan about the motion to
expunge?
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. You are converting that reply as an opposition to the
motion?
SEN. CAYETANO. Yes, Mr. Chief Justice.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. So, it would be treated as an opposition.
SEN. CAYETANO. Mr. Chief Justice, I rose yesterday to defend myself against the
baseless and malicious accusation leveled against me by Mr. Dante Tan. And in my
privilege speech, I said that the one behind Mr. Tan is no less than the President of
the Philippines, Joseph Ejercito Estrada. I said that because it was quite obvious that
if in fact Mr. Dante Tan had some complaints about my purchase of those shares, he
could have done that long before the impeachment trial occurred before the Senate
body. But that he chose, Mr. Tan chose to accuse me at this point of time not as a
senator but isang huwes na senador na nauupo dito para makinig sa mga testigo
against the President, lalung-lalo na sa paksang Article 3 na may kinalaman tungkol
sa inside trading ng BW shares. Any logical man will conclude na kaya lamang ako
inakusahan ni Dante Tan ay sapagkat siya ay kaibigan ni Pangulo at si Pangulo ang
nagsabi sa kaniya na, "Tirahin mo iyang si Cayetano sapagkat iyan ay kalaban ko."
That is the reason why I spoke, Mr. President. Not because I accuse the President of
any wrongdoing but I said it was him who was behind Mr. Tan, and all the statements
I made about the President getting involved in Vizconde is part of that explanation,
Mr. President.
And so, ikinalulungkot ko rin sa aking kaibigan na taga-Cagayan na hindi po ako
sang-ayon na tanggalin ang aking sinabi tungkol kay Pangulong Erap. Kanina nga po
sinabi niya wala raw katotohanan. Eh, di tapos na po iyon kung iyon ang sinabi niya.
Kung gustong gawin ng prosekyusyon na ipatawag ako, ipatawag si Judge Amelita
Tolentino, si Prosecutor Zuño, nasa kanila na po iyon. Wala naman akong sinasabi .
And again, also, the record will state that no less than the Senate President put on
record that my statement would be noted.
So, wala po akong nalalaman na may masama akong sinabi. Dinedepende ko lang
po ang aking sarili against the President. At kung mayroon naman siguro dito kahit
na hindi Pangulo ng Pilipinas na magsasabi ng isang masama sa Senator-Judge ay
siguro naman po ay tatayo din iyon at sasabihin niya kung bakit iyong isang tao na
isang plain Juan dela Cruz o isang public official ay inaakusahan siya.
It is inevitable that I could not but mention the President's role in the accusation
against me by Dante Tan. And that is the reason why I mentioned the case of
Vizconde.
So, with that explanation, Mr. Chief Justice, and with my colleague from Cagayan
having moved to expunge, I wish to register my objection against it.
Thank you.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. The Majority Leader.
SEN. ENRILE. Mr. Chief Justice, I claim the right of response.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. What is the pleasure now of the Majority Leader who
was recognized earlier?
THE MAJORITY LEADER. May I be allowed to speak to the issue before the
rebuttal?
SEN. ENRILE. Thank you.
THE MAJORITY LEADER. Mr. Chief Justice, yesterday I did want to raise the issue
raised today by Senator-Judge Juan Ponce Enrile. But I did not want to add to the
level of heat on the Floor. That is why I thought we should revisit it at a later date.
Mr. Chief Justice, I believe every Senator-Judge has a right to defend his honor,
reputation, integrity and everything else from any attacks, especially if the attack is
made on the Floor of this Court.
The alleged attack on our colleague was made outside this Court and could have
been answered outside this Court. Nevertheless, it is still proper for a Senator-Judge,
if he feels that his reputation has been impaired or unduly assailed, to respond in
Court. But the accusation leveled by a Senator-Judge against the Respondent is
something else. It expands the list of charges. The Articles of Impeachment are quite
precise. This is not a work in progress. This is not an open-ended charge sheet
which must grow from day to day. And if it is permitted to grow, it must grow from the
efforts of the prosecution, not from the efforts of any Senator-Judge.
So, I believe that at this point, if we can persuade our good colleague to withdraw the
particular remarks, then we could avoid having to expunge these things from the
record. I believe that the offensive remarks appear on page 11 of our transcript,
Wednesday, January 10, 2001. I am simply trying to find a way out so that we can
avoid having to expunge this from the record if our colleague would withdraw
voluntarily these remarks.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Before recognizing anybody else, the honorable
Senator Enrile, the movant, requested for his chance to make a reply to the
opposition. He is thus recognized.
SEN. ENRILE. Thank you, Mr. Chief Justice.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. After that, the honorable Senator-Judge Sotto; and
finally, the oppositor, the honorable Judge Cayetano.
SEN. ENRILE. I will be very brief, Mr. Chief Justice.
Mr. Chief Justice, I think I recognize the right of everyone to defend himself, even
with his life, if necessary. And if I were in the place of the distinguished gentleman
from Pateros, Taguig and Muntinlupa, probably, I would have done far more than
what he did.
What I am trying to say, Mr. President, is not to deprive him of the right to defend his
honor. He is entitled to that. But what I am saying is that in doing so, he must not
make accusations in this Chamber because this is not the ordinary Senate where we
make accusatory statements against anybody in the world and without accounting for
it anywhere in this world outside of this Chamber. Just now, when he stood before
this Chamber to explain his position in connection with my motion, he precisely
emphasized an accusation that the President of the Philippines who is under charge
before us is behind his predicament, which is still to be proven. That is a charge.
Second, that the President of the Philippines is "President Ejercito Estrada," to quote
him exactly, "a.k.a. or alias Jose Velarde." By saying that as a judge, he has
prejudged the case as far as the Respondent is concerned.
And finally, when he brought the alleged intervention of President Estrada in the
Vizconde case, assuming that to be true, then that is a charge which could be the
basis of another article of impeachment which is not before this Court. And if he
wants to prove that or make it an issue, the only logical, legal and proper thing to do
is for the distinguished gentleman to initiate an amendment to the Articles of
Impeachment before this Chamber, subscribe to it, if he may, and present it to the
proper House that can initiate such an impeachment so that it can come here, and he
must sit on that witness stand to prove his allegation as a witness but not as a judge
accusing, prosecuting and judging at the same time.
Thank you.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. The honorable Senator-Judge Sotto.
SEN. SOTTO. Thank you., Mr. Chief Justice. This is exactly what I was trying to
avoid yesterday, if you will recall, when I posed a query to the Senate President on
what we should do with the, call it a privilege speech or a point of personal privilege
that the distinguished gentleman from Taguig delivered yesterday. My query to the
Senate President is that, if it is so that the Senate Rules are suppletory to the
proceedings, that we may probably refer the said privilege speech or point of
personal privilege to the proper Senate committee.
Now, at this point, there is a motion to expunge. And may I then offer an amendment
to the motion that instead of expunging the point of personal privilege, then my
original proposal and query yesterday to the Senate President be instead offered as
an amendment to Senator-Judge Juan Ponce Enrile, which is to refer the point of
personal privilege to the proper Senate committee instead of expunging it and merely
considering it as a referral.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. There is a motion to amend the motion? Before acting
on that, what is the...
SEN. ENRILE. Mr. Chief Justice.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Yes.
SEN. ENRILE. I have no special interest in this other than to remove from the record
of this Tribunal statements that are extraneous to the current Articles of
Impeachment. If that is the solution, I am willing to accept that solution, Mr. Chief
Justice.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. In short, you are accepting the amendment which is a
substitute amendment.
SEN. ENRILE. That is correct, Mr. Chief Justice.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. So the standing motion now would not be the original
motion but to refer the incident to the Senate as a legislative body for appropriate
action.
SEN. ROCO. And if we can second the motion of Senator Sotto and ask all our
friends to support it.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. You are seconding the substitute motion?
SEN. ROCO. Just so, yes, if we may, Mr. Chief Justice.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Thank you for that.
SEN. CAYETANO. Mr. Chief Justice, may I reply.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. On what?
SEN. CAYETANO. On the point raised by my esteemed colleague from Cagayan.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. On the pending motion now?
SEN. CAYETANO. Yes. Because I was asked by the Majority Leader if I were
amenable.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Yes.
SEN. DRILON. Mr. Chief Justice, with the permission of my good friend, Senator
Cayetano.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. With the permission of the two gentlemen, the
honorable Senator-Judge Drilon is recognized.
SUSPENSION OF TRIAL
SEN. DRILON. Can I ask for a one-minute suspension?
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Make it two minutes. Suspended for two minutes.
It was 2:25 p.m.
THE TRIAL WAS RESUMED AT 2:28 P.M.
RESUMPTION OF TRIAL
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. The trial is resumed.
SEN. ROCO. Mr. Chief Justice.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. The honorable Senator-Judge Roco.
SEN. ROCO. By way of seconding, if we may explain the parliamentary status--and
we are now operating under the Senate Rules, Mr. Chief Justice, as supplementary
to the Impeachment Court--the parliamentary status is like this: There was a motion
to expunge; that is a main motion that is now a subsidiary motion to refer to the
Committee as a Whole, so it is a privilege to clear our motion and that is the one
pending before the Body, and I think there is consensus that that will stay. So there is
no action on the records. We will now just refer to the Senate as a Body and as there
is a consensus on the matter, the records will stay until otherwise disposed of by the
Senate.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Yes, Senator-Judge Drilon.
SEN. DRILON. May I pose a query to Senator-Judge Sotto who was the...
SEN. ROCO. I have the Floor.
SEN. DRILON. With your permission.
SEN. ROCO. I yield the Floor.
SEN. DRILON. Okay. May I know from the proponent whether or not the...the way I
understand it, the statement of Senator-Judge Cayetano will stay on the record, but
the official action of the Impeachment Court is to refer the matter to the Senate as a
legislative body? Is that a correct understanding, Your Honor?
SEN. SOTTO. Until it is disposed of by the Senate, yes.
SEN. DRILON. Thank you, Your Honor.
SEN. SOTTO. Until it is disposed of. Meaning, we have taken it up and we have
decided on what to do with the said privilege or point of personal privilege.
SEN. DRILON. In the Senate?
SEN. SOTTO. In the Senate.
SEN. DRILON. Right. So we will discuss it in the Senate.
SEN. SOTTO. Yes, not here.
SEN. DRILON. Thank you.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. The Senate President.
THE SENATE PRESIDENT. Mr. Chief Justice, may I just report that during the short
break, we have a unanimous consensus that the matter shall indeed be referred to
the Senate for action by order of the Impeachment Court.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. If that should be so.... Yes, what is the pleasure of
Senator-Judge Cayetano?
SEN. CAYETANO. Having objected to it on the basis of the main motion which was
later on amended, and after the explanation sought by Senator Drilon from the
movant, Senator Sotto, that my privilege speech will remain on record, then I
withdraw my objection.
Thank you.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. It appears that the original motion presented by
Senator-Judge Enrile was amended by way of substitution, and the amended motion
was that of the honorable Senator-Judge Sotto which was duly seconded, and
considering the consensus that had been arrived at during the break of two minutes
as manifested later on by the honorable Senator Roco, the honorable Senator Drilon,
and finally, by the Senate President, the motion of Senator-Judge Roco is approved.
We can now proceed to the trial proper.
The first to be recognized who will ask questions on the witness, Mr. Yulo, would be
the honorable Judge Guingona.
SEN. GUINGONA. Thank you, Mr. Chief Justice.
Mr. Yulo, the PSE is a private institution, is it not?
MR. YULO. It is a private institution, Your Honor, with a quasi-public interest.
SEN. GUINGONA. With public..... And so far as the public interest is concerned, it is
the Securities and Exchange Commission that has jurisdiction over it?
MR. YULO. That is correct, Your Honor.
SEN. GUINGONA. And the President of the Philippines has nothing to do with the
Philippine Stock Exchange?
MR. YULO. The Philippine Stock Exchange? No, Your Honor.
SEN. GUINGONA. No. And in accordance with your testimony, you said that there
were four calls to you, is that correct?
MR. YULO. That's correct, Your Honor.
SEN. GUINGONA. In the first.... Out of the four calls, in the three calls that were cited
by you, you said that the President told you that Dante Tan was a personal friend and
a good man and this was the same theme carried out in the second and the fourth
call?
MR. YULO. The theme or the words in Tagalog, of "kaibigan", "tinutulungan na ako
niyan," "mabait na tao iyan," carried through in all calls, Your Honor, except for the
last call, the last two calls when in the third one he already said, "bise-presidente pa
ay tumutulong na iyan." And on the last call, he said, "Noong Senador pa ako,
tumutulong na iyan," Your Honor. But the theme was the same.
SEN. GUINGONA. Okay. So iyong appeal ng ating Presidente ay para sa kaniyang
personal interest kasi para sa kaniyang "kaibigan"?
MR. YULO. Yes, Your Honor.
SEN. GUINGONA. Iyon namang function ng PSE sa imbestigasyon was for public
interest?
MR. YULO. Yes, Your Honor.
SEN. GUINGONA. Noong pumunta kayo sa Malacañang noong February 14 year
2000, ganoon din ang nasabi ni Presidente sa inyo in the sense that kahit na iniexplain mo na na mabigat iyong ginawa nila at dapat hindi palampasin, ay sinabi pa
rin niya--kahit sinabi niyang "Kung may kasalanan siya ay dapat sasagutin niya pero
ito ay.... [The two-minute limit expired].
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Your time is up, Your Honor. The witness may answer
that last question.
MR. YULO. Iyon hong sinabi niya, "Kung sabagay, kung may kasalanan ay wala
tayong magagawa. Pero alam mo, kaibigan ko iyan. Matagal nang tumutulong iyan
noong nasa Senado pa ako." Sinabi po iyon doon po sa fourth call, hindi po sa
Malacañang. Sa Malacañang po, ang sinabi lang niya sa akin ay, "Ang sabi ni Dante
Tan ay siya ang nalugi dito at hindi siya nag-manipulate." Iyon ho ang sinasabi niya
noon. So magkaiba po ang sinabi doon sa fourth call at doon sa Malacañang.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Thank you. The honorable Senator Aquino-Oreta is
recognized.
SEN. ORETA. Thank you, Mr. Chief Justice.
G. Witness, kahapon po ay isinalaysay ninyo sa amin iyong telephone conversation
ninyo ng Pangulo. Naisalaysay niyo po ba lahat? Wala po ba kayong nakalimutan o
mayroon pa po kayong gustong idagdag?
MR. YULO. As far as I can recall, iyon po ang....
SEN. ORETA. So naisalaysay po ninyo sa amin, sa Hukom na ito lahat?
MR. YULO. As far as I can recall, Your Honor.
SEN. ORETA. I see. Ang Pangulo ba ay humingi sa inyo ng, hiningi po ba niya na
pagbigyan ninyo o paboran ninyo si Mr. Dante Tan hinggil doon sa imbestigasyon na
ginawa ng CSG ng PSE?
MR. YULO. Ang words na sinasabi lang ho ay "kaibigan", "matagal nang tumutulong
sa akin iyan", and at the later part, noong third call, ang sinabi niya, "Hindi nagiimbestiga ang SEC, kayo na lang, so paki-expedite na ho iyan."
SEN. ORETA. Oo nga po. Oo, expedite. Pero hiningi po ba niya na maliwanag sa
inyo na, "Ginoong Pangulo ng PSE, paboran niyo naman sa imbestigasyon ninyo o
iklaro naman ninyo ang BW o si
Mr. Dante Tan."?
MR. YULO. Doon po sa fourth call ay sinabi niya uli na kung puwede i-expedite nga
daw at saka....
SEN. ORETA. Expedite. Ang gusto pong sabihin ng "expedite" pabilisan ang
imbestigasyon. Hindi po ba iyon?
MR. YULO. Hindi ho ganoon. Mayroon din siyang sinabing "Tapusin na natin. Bahala
ka na diyan." Kaya po napilitan po akong sumagot doon at sinabi ko na sa kaniya na,
"Mr. President, I understand what you are telling me. Naiintindihan ko ang sinasabi
ninyo pero alam ninyo, hindi ako ang nag-imbestiga. Ang nag-imbestiga po niyan ay
ang CSG kaya ang magagawa ko na lang po ay pag natapos iyong kanilang
imbestigasyon ay ipaaalam ko sa inyo kaagad ang resulta. That was my way of
respect in answering what he was trying to ask me to do, Your Honor.
SEN. ORETA. I see. Ang Pangulo ba ay nabanggit niya sa inyo na tila yata pareho
kayong may veto powers. Ikaw, may veto power ka bilang pangulo ng PSE; siya may
veto power bilang Pangulo ng ating bansa. Ang Presidente ba ay nakiusap sa inyo
na gamitin ninyo ang veto power ninyo hinggil sa imbestigasyon ng CSG tungkol dito
sa BW at kay Mr. Dante Tan?
MR. YULO. Ang sinabi lang po niya sa akin ay "kaibigan" niya raw, "paki-expedite,
tapusin na natin, bahala ka na diyan."
SEN. ORETA. So walang pabor na deretso na iklaro ninyo ang BW o itong si Mr.
Dante Tan?
MR. YULO. The end of the fourth call, Your Honor, the message to me--and I think
any rational man would get--was that he wanted me to come up with a favorable
report that would clear Dante Tan.
SEN. ORETA. I see. Noon pong nagkita-kita kayo ni Atty. Almadro, ni Chairman
Yasay, at kayo po sa Ciudad Fernandina, doon po ba kayo nag-almusal noon pong
binanggit ninyo kahapon?
MR. YULO. Tama po.
SEN. ORETA. Noon pong nagkita-kita kayo at pagkatapos ng almusal, nagulat na
lang kayo na eto na, nasa pinto at kasama na ninyo si Mr. Dante Tan. At hindi po ba
kayo nagalit bakit parang niyari, parang inisahan kayo at biglang dumating itong si
Mr. Dante Tan at hindi niyo naman alam na pupunta pala doon sa meeting na iyon?
Hindi po ba kayo nagalit?
MR. YULO. Sinabi ko na po kahapon na nainis nga po kami noon.
SEN. ORETA. Nainis po kayo. Ngunit iyong pagka-inis po ninyo, naipahayag po ba
ninyo kay Chairman Yasay na kayo ay nagalit at hindi tama ang ginawa niya sa inyo?
Para kayong naisahan doon sa almusal na iyon? [The two-minute limit has expired.]
MR. YULO. Hindi na po. Tumayo agad si Chairman Yasay at ang sabi niya, "Bahala
na kayo" at umalis na siya.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Your time is up, Madam.
SEN. ORETA. Salamat po.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Thank you.
The Chair now recognizes the honorable Judge Legarda-Leviste.
SEN. LEVISTE. Thank you, Mr. Chief Justice.
Just a few questions, Mr. Witness. As a former president of the PSE and having
closely monitored the transactions in the stock exchange, would you say that the BW
scandal had led to the near collapse of the local stock market at that time?
MR. YULO. Yes, Your Honor.
SEN. LEVISTE. Is it also correct to say that this BW scandal was one of the reasons
that destroyed investor confidence in the PSE, causing foreign investments to pull
out from the local stock market which consequently led to the dwindling volume of
transactions from more than 1 billion value turnover to less than half a billion?
MR. YULO. Yes, Your Honor, that was what was being told and spoken about by
almost all the brokers, Your Honor.
SEN. LEVISTE Yes. Is it also correct to say that due to the pullout of foreign and
local funds, a number of brokerage houses have slowly run out of business thereby
forcing some companies to fold up and has caused successive layoffs in the stock
market industry?
MR. YULO. That's correct, Your Honor.
SEN. LEVISTE Yet, despite this so-called near collapse of the local stock exchange
at that time and the adverse effects of the BW scandal on investor confidence, the
President, if we are to believe your testimony and the testimony of Atty. Almadro,
allegedly shows to help protect Dante Tan who was, by PSE's investigation,
principally responsible for the price manipulation scheme on BW's stock price?
MR. YULO. Yes, Your Honor.
SEN. LEVISTE. That is all. Thank you.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Thank you. The honorable Senator-Judge Sergio
Osmeña III.
SEN. OSMEÑA (S). Thank you, Mr. Chief Justice.
Mr. Yulo, give us a background on BW Resources. Wasn't this what they call a
"backdoor listing"?
MR. YULO. It was a backdoor listing, Your Honor. It was bought, I think, sometime in
1998, and the name then was Greater Asia Resources and then it was changed by
Dante Tan to Best World Resources. But it is different from the Best World Gaming
Entertainment which had the franchise to operate Bingo 2.
SEN. OSMEÑA (S). Wasn't even Greater Asia Resources a new name for an old
company?
MR. YULO. Yes, Your Honor, there was another name prior to that. I don't recall what
it was, but I think, originally, the stock was Ramitex.
SEN. OSMEÑA (S). Yes. This was an old company that was owned and majorityowned and controlled by the Soriano family-MR. YULO. And it went bankrupt, I understand.
SEN. OSMEÑA (S). --in the '50s and the '60s, Ramie Textiles of the Philippines
better known as Ramitex, am I correct?
MR. YULO. That's correct, Your Honor.
SEN. OSMEÑA (S). All right. And did you trace when Mr. Dante Tan began
accumulating BW Resources shares?
MR. YULO. I did not trace it myself but I think the CSG staff has that information,
Your Honor.
SEN. OSMEÑA (S). All right. They did give that information. Now, at peak, because
the CSG--not the CSG--but Mr. Almadro testified the other day that there are 450
million issued on outstanding shares by BW Resources at that time, October 1999, at
P110 per share. What would the total market capitalization of that company would
have been of BW?
MR. YULO. I cannot recall right now, Your Honor.
SEN. OSMEÑA (S). That's as roughly about P50 billion?
MR. YULO. Most probably, Your Honor.
SEN. OSMEÑA (S). And therefore that would have probably made it to the top 10 in
terms of market capitalization in the Philippines at that time?
MR. YULO. Yes, Your Honor. It was I think, at that time, even bigger than the blue
chip companies, Your Honor.
SEN. OSMEÑA (S). Well, at least as big as Globe Telecom which today is priced,
has a market cap of P50 billion?
MR. YULO. Yes, Your Honor.
SEN. OSMEÑA (S). And almost as big as Ayala Land which has a market cap of
about P61 billion?
MR. YULO. Yes, Your Honor.
SEN. OSMEÑA (S). And almost as big as SM Prime Holdings, which has a P61
billion cap?
MR. YULO. Yes, Your Honor.
SEN. OSMEÑA (S). And almost as big as Metropolitan Bank and Trust Company
which has a market cap of about P63 billion?
MR. YULO. Yes, Your Honor.
SEN. OSMEÑA (S). Now, all of these companies that I mentioned, they have intrinsic
value; they have assets; they have recurring income which causes people to buy
their shares.
MR. YULO. Yes, Your Honor.
SEN. OSMEÑA (S). What was the reason why BW, who had an overpriced land
asset of about P400 million in Tagaytay, shot up to the same value that is--like Globe
Telecom and Ayala Land?
MR. YULO. Well, that was really an issue of concern, Your Honor, because there
was no apparent reason why the price should go up. That's why our Compliance and
Surveillance Group had to take an investigation to determine what caused the rise in
price. And, as already testified earlier, and even also as examined by the Securities
and Exchange Commission, it was because of insider trading and price manipulation,
Your Honor.
SEN. OSMEÑA (S). Thank you very much, Mr. Chief Justice.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Thank you. The honorable Senator-Judge Biazon. And
after that the Majority Leader; then the honorable Senator-Judge Magsaysay; then
the honorable Senator-Judge Drilon, and now, in addition, Senator-Judge Cayetano.
SEN. BIAZON. Thank you, Mr. Chief Justice.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. You may proceed, Your Honor.
SEN. BIAZON. The questions that I wanted to raise were already answered by
previous questions, and therefore, I withdraw my reservations to ask questions.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Thank you very much.
SEN. BIAZON. Thank you, Mr. Chief Justice.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. The honorable Majority Leader.
THE MAJORITY LEADER. Thank you, Mr. Chief Justice.
Mr. Yulo, you said that on November 17, President Estrada spoke to you by phone to
express concern about the media scandal being generated by your word war with
SEC Chairman Yasay. And then on November 22, he called again to say, "Pakiexpedite na lang iyong inyong imbestigasyon."
Did that not strike you as an expression of genuine concern for the stock market, or
did you read only his concern for Dante Tan? Why?
MR. YULO. It was his concern for Dante Tan, Your Honor.
THE MAJORITY LEADER. Why?
MR. YULO. Because of the tenor of the conversation we had, Your Honor. Because
he would always talk about his friendliness with Dante Tan. "Ang kaibigan tulungan
natin."
THE MAJORITY LEADER. But on... Is it on the same date that he said, "Sabagay
kung may kasalanan e wala tayong magagawa diyan, pero alam kong kaibigan natin
iyan. Noong senador pa ako ay tumutulong na iyan." And then a little later, you said
yesterday, "Noong bise-presidente pa ako, tumutulong na iyan." Which is which?
Noong senador pa o noong bise pa?
MR. YULO. Noong bise, it happened on the 22nd; noong 23rd, noong umabot na sa
Senado because that was when I told him that what I can do is, I will give him the
results as soon as it is over.
THE MAJORITY LEADER. Now, in Malacañang, noong February 14, when you told
him Dante's problem, he said, "Bakit hindi sinabi sa akin ni Dante iyan? May
problema pala siya. Sabi niya siya ang nalugi dito, siya ang biktima."
Did this not strike you as a state...Did this strike you as the statement of a man who
was willing to bend the rules for Dante Tan?
MR. YULO. It was the same statement that he told me in the telephone calls, Your
Honor.
THE MAJORITY LEADER. Now, you said that on November 26, Mr. Yasay set you
up, you and Almadro, at Ciudad Fernandina with Dante Tan. Then on February 14,
2000, in Malacañang, the President told you and Almadro, "Sabi ni Dante, ayos na si
Yasay," making that gesture.
MR. YULO. That's correct, Your Honor.
THE MAJORITY LEADER. And you said, you're surprised because in your words,
"Parang inamin po sa akin na alam niya na si Dante Tan ay sinuhulan si Chairman
Yasay." Does this mean that you believe Yasay had, in fact, been bribed? And that
the only thing that bothered you was "parang pinabayaan pa ni Presidente Estrada"?
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Your time is over.
MR. YULO. Well, the President was telling me that his friend told him that he had
bribed the Chairman.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. So you had no doubt that Yasay had been bribed?
MR. YULO. I had no reason to believe or to doubt, Your Honor. It was just told me.
THE MAJORITY LEADER. Thank you, Mr. Chief Justice.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Thank you. The honorable Senator-Judge Magsaysay.
Two additional members of the Impeachment Court have signified their intention to
ask questions-the honorable Senator-Judge Coseteng and then the honorable Judge
Revilla.
SEN. MAGSAYSAY. Thank you, Chief Justice.
Mr. Yulo, you're a businessman.
MR. YULO. Yes, Sir.
SEN. MAGSAYSAY. You're a technocrat.
MR. YULO. Yes, Your Honor.
SEN. MAGSAYSAY. You have been in banking. You're still in banking.
MR. YULO. Yes, Your Honor.
SEN. MAGSAYSAY. You were in insurance.
MR. YULO. Yes, Your Honor.
SEN. MAGSAYSAY. In other words, you're a very good model of a businessman, par
excellence.
MR. YULO. I hope so, Your Honor.
SEN. MAGSAYSAY. How much do you value credit worthiness?
MR. YULO. A lot, Your Honor. It's basic.
SEN. MAGSAYSAY. How much do you value trustworthiness?
MR. YULO. It's basic, Your Honor. It's very important.
SEN. MAGSAYSAY. If you were given the power to rate our President because you
want him to be your CEO, how would you rate him?
MR. YULO. I don't think I'll make him a CEO, Your Honor
SEN. MAGSAYSAY. Thank you. You value your integrity?
MR. YULO. Yes, Your Honor.
SEN. MAGSAYSAY. And your name?
MR. YULO. Yes, Your Honor.
SEN. MAGSAYSAY. Are you related to the late Speaker Jose Yulo who was the
Speaker of the House during President Quezon's time?
MR. YULO. I am not too sure, Your Honor, but I think very distantly, if ever, but I am
not too sure.
SEN. MAGSAYSAY. What prompted you to testify, aside from being subpoenaed?
MR. YULO. Can I make a longer manifestation?
SEN. MAGSAYSAY. Yes.
MR. YULO. Your Honor, when the Stock Exchange-BW scandal arose, I was really
very concerned because I would represent the country in meetings of the
International Stock Exchange Federation. And in an international arena, it is very
difficult if your own Philippine Stock Exchange is experiencing a lot of scandals. And
so, therefore, a scandal like BW, wherein the Philippine Stock Exchange almost
collapsed and the economy of the country also almost collapsed alongside with it,
this was a major issue as a citizen or an ordinary executive, Your Honor. Therefore,
when the juetenggate scandal arose, here was again another incident that, to my
mind, would almost collapse the country and all of this was being caused by the
Midnight Cabinet or friends of the President, and this was all over the papers. So it
was just a series of many events.
Therefore, Your Honor, when we were discussing this issue at the Philippine
Chamber of Commerce and Industry, and I voted for the President to resign, I did so
for two reasons, Your Honor. The first reason concerned what I think was necessary
for the Philippines as a country in an international arena because I knew if the Blue
Ribbon Committee meetings would proceed and go on, and eventually could lead to
an impeachment proceeding, the Philippines, as a country, would be exposed to the
world, Your Honor. And all the bad things that are being done here would be exposed
to the world and already the Philippine economic situation is so bad that we cannot
afford more negative exposure. It was one reason, Your Honor.
And the second reason, Your Honor, is, the President is a friend. I have known him
since 1992. He put me as one of his advisers when he was campaigning and then he
named me one of the Philippine business representatives to the APEC Advisory
Council. So, testifying is, number one, painful when it involves a friend. Number two,
testifying can be scary if the friend who might be affected is powerful. And number
three, however, Your Honor, my mother always used to tell me that testifying on the
truth is always sanctifying.
And so, when I thought about this, I also felt, Your Honor, that if the Blue Ribbon
Committee meetings would go on and an impeachment process would go on, as a
friend of the President, I felt he would be undergoing a lot of pain and agony, a lot of
bad things will be brought out to him, about him personally, and that his family might
be brought into the picture as well. So as a friend, I did not want him to suffer all of
those agony and indignity. So, I thought as a friend, if he would immediately resign,
he would spare himself the pain. And also I thought, Your Honor, that resignation is
an act of nobility; resignation is an act of courage; and resignation can even be an
act of statesmanship.
And if he resigned early enough because he wanted the country to be at peace, I
think we would have emulated him and he would not be subjected to all the
indignities that he is undergoing today. That was the reason why I voted for
resignation and why I am here today, Your Honor.
SEN. MAGSAYSAY. Thank you for the very long discourse. Now, finally....
MR. YULO. I am sorry, Your Honor.
SEN. MAGSAYSAY. Mr. Chief Justice, finally, you talked about being scared, you
talked about being confused, and afraid.
MR. YULO. Not confused, Your Honor, I just said scared when you testify.
SEN. MAGSAYSAY. Scared. Shortly after the BW scandal, you resigned or were you
forced out of the PSE?
MR. YULO. I had signed a three-year contract, Your Honor.
SEN. MAGSAYSAY. You signed a three-year contract and the contract expired?
MR. YULO. Yes, Your Honor.
SEN. MAGSAYSAY. What did you feel when the contract expired?
MR. YULO. Actually, Your Honor, I was sort of relieved that it was over because that
was the time when I just submitted the report. It was a difficult period of time. And the
report also mentioned the names of member-brokers who, in effect, were owners of
the Exchange and so obviously the member-brokers would be mad at me, and so it
was a very uncomfortable position as well, Your Honor.
SEN. MAGSAYSAY. Thank you, Mr. Chief Justice.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Thank you. The honorable Senator-Judge Drilon.
SEN. DRILON. Thank you, Mr. Chief Justice.
Mr. Witness, on page 135 of the transcript of stenographic notes of January 10,
2000, you testified and replied to the question of counsel that you knew that one of
the main stockholders aside from the President was Dante Tan, referring to BW.
MR. YULO. Yes, Your Honor.
SEN. DRILON. Would you classify the President as a main stockholder of BW?
MR. YULO. Which President are you referring to?
SEN. DRILON. President Joseph Ejercito Estrada.
MR. YULO. Well, there were talks or rumors within the industry that ownership of BW
probably extended up to the President but I had no documentation on that, Your
Honor.
SEN. DRILON. You had...But you have heard that he is a main stockholder?
MR. YULO. Within the Stock Exchange a lot of rumors are going around, Your
Honor.
SEN. DRILON. And you have no....
MR. YULO. Well, the CSG was doing its investigation, Your Honor. So if they could
get as far back as that, then they would probably find something, Your Honor. But
take note again that the investigation of the PSE is really, in a sense, restricted to
member-brokers and to the listed firms, not beyond beneficial owners.
SEN. DRILON. Did the rumor also say what percent the President had in BW
Resources?
MR. YULO. No, Your Honor.
SEN. DRILON. You also mentioned about your meeting with then Secretary Espiritu.
And I do recall your having mentioned that you had to see him together with Kalaw
and Trinidad?
MR. YULO. No, Chairman Trina Kalaw, Your Honor-SEN. DRILON. Yes.
MR. YULO. --one person.
SEN. DRILON. I'm sorry. With Trinidad Kalaw and Yuchengco--Vivian Yuchengco. Is
that correct?
MR. YULO. No, Your Honor. That was another time, Your Honor. That was when we
met with Buenaventura, Your Honor.
SEN. DRILON. So, when did you see Secretary Espiritu?
MR. YULO. In the meeting in the Bangko Sentral Conference Hall, the three
Secretaries were there: Secretary Pardo, Secretary Espiritu and Governor
Buenaventura. And then we again met Secretary Espiritu alone separately, Your
Honor.
SEN. DRILON. All right. Is it correct to say that you saw Secretary Espiritu because
of the danger of the stock market collapsing as a result of the BW stocks
manipulation?
MR. YULO. Yes, Your Honor, and this was already, I think, in the first part of
November because we noticed that some of the brokers were sort of doing a second
round of manipulation again, Your Honor. Meaning they were going to play the game
again. As a matter of fact, we called to task one or two brokers whom we noticed
were trying to do kiting operations and to tell them to please stop it because we will
now really monitor them and not make it happen again. And so we called on
Secretary Espiritu to ask for help because, seemingly, friends of the President were
involved and they were emboldened and they were not listening or didn't care about
anything we did, Your Honor.
SEN. DRILON. And is it correct to say that there was a situation where there was a
real danger that the brokers could not deliver what has been sold or pay the amount
of stocks sold because of the manipulation that you mentioned?
MR. YULO. That is correct, Your Honor.
SEN. DRILON. And you would call this a "float in the market", is that correct?
MR. YULO. Well, on the way the rules work, we have what we call "trading-day-plusfour." If you trade today, then on the fourth day you must settle, meaning, you must
pay cash or offer your shares. And at eleven o'clock on the fourth day, that is when it
must happen. So there were times when the trading on BW was so huge that we
knew that the brokers involved did not have the kind of cash to be able to settle, and
their clients we heard were also having problems and they had to
borrow money.
SEN. DRILON. If that was not solved, the stock market would have collapsed?
MR. YULO. Yes, Your Honor.
SEN. DRILON. Thank you, Your Honor.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Thank you, Your Honor. The honorable Senator-Judge
Cayetano.
SEN. CAYETANO. Thank you, Mr. Chief Justice.
MR. YULO. Mr. Yulo, you mentioned that as a friend of Erap you thought his
resignation will be both good for the country and for himself. Correct?
MR. YULO. That's correct, Your Honor.
SEN. CAYETANO. Obviously, hindi ka niya pinakinggan, hindi ba?
MR. YULO. Well, I never talked to him, Your Honor. He knew my vote at the
Philippine Chamber of Commerce and Industry because it was in the newspapers.
And I also resigned from the APEC Business Advisory Council in November 5, I
think, it was, and I told him the reasons for my resignation therein.
SEN. CAYETANO. Siguro, hindi ka niya pinakinggan dahil sabi niya, "walang
kaibigan, walang kamag-anak."
Did you say that the President called you four times before February 14?
MR. YULO. In November. All in the month of November.
SEN. CAYETANO. Yes.
MR. YULO. Yes, Your Honor.
SEN. CAYETANO. Did you consider those number of calls unusual?
MR. YULO. Yes, Your Honor.
SEN. CAYETANO. Unusual in the sense that you never had any call by the President
with that kind of numbers for a particular stock. Correct?
MR. YULO. I never had any call from the President at all when I was president of the
PSE except this time, Your Honor.
SEN. CAYETANO. Except this time and when it involved BW. Am I correct?
MR. YULO. That is correct, Your Honor.
SEN. CAYETANO. And his friend Dante Tan, am I correct?
MR. YULO. That is correct, Your Honor.
SEN. CAYETANO. Now, you said that you are in a safehouse and undergone some
kind of threats.
MR. YULO. Yes, Your Honor.
SEN. CAYETANO. Do you still suffer from these threats?
MR. YULO. Well, there was also another threat, Your Honor. One of my offices in
Mandaluyong, one day, four policemen came and told my people there that there
was a bomb threat in that office, Your Honor. And so, I got a call not to go to that
office.
SEN. CAYETANO. I would imagine before this scandal, you never had such threat in
your life. Correct?
MR. YULO. Never, Your Honor.
SEN. CAYETANO. There was a rumor that after the collapse of the BW shares, a
number of stockholders were called by the President. Do you recall this rumor?
MR. YULO. Yes. That was going around, Your Honor.
SEN. CAYETANO. And what was the rumor all about?
MR. YULO. The rumor was that the President wanted some of the brokers to return
their margins or what they made in the stock market to pay back Dante Tan, Your
Honor.
SEN. CAYETANO. And do you know the reason for that rumor?
MR. YULO. Because Dante Tan, I understand, told the President that some people
made money and not him. So, he wanted it sort of return back to him.
SEN. CAYETANO. Would you be able to tell us who are these stockbrokers, if you
know?
MR. YULO. I remember in a meeting--I do not recall now because there was so many
things going around, Your Honor--but I think Secretary Espiritu would have a more
information on this.
SEN. CAYETANO. Okay, let us go back to the 23rd telephone call to you. Ang sabi
mo rito, and impresyon mo ay binibigyan ng proteksyon o gustong bigyan ng Pangulo
ng proteksyon si Dante Tan. Am I correct?
MR. YULO. That is correct, Your Honor.
SEN. CAYETANO. Bakit iyan ang impresyon mo?
MR. YULO. Because ho pag tumawag....Anybody pag tinawagan tayo at sinabi
nating "kaibigan ko iyan, matagal nang tumutulong sa akin iyan". And then,
eventually, "ipaki-expedite mo, tapusin natin. Bahala ka na diyan," and it is the
President calling you, I don't think there is any other interpretation, Your Honor.
SEN. CAYETANO. Siguro, kaya ka nagkaroon ng impresyon ay dahil sa sunudsunod ang tawag, even before the 23rd call, meaning, nakadalawa na. Am I correct?
MR. YULO. Kasama na rin po iyon at saka iyong the manner of the way it was said,
Your Honor.
SEN. CAYETANO. So, let me recall once again. You never had any call at all about
any stock except this BW and the President called you four times. Am I correct?
MR. YULO. That is correct, Your Honor.
SEN. CAYETANO. Have you been to Malacañang before February 14?
MR. YULO. Yes, Your Honor.
SEN. CAYETANO. On matters about stocks?
MR. YULO. No, Your Honor.
SEN. CAYETANO. None. So, again, will you say that when you were called to go to
Malacañang, this was all about BW shares?
MR. YULO. Well, it was because, as I said earlier, because I felt he was pressuring
me for an answer to confirm that I will now come up with a favorable report. And so,
to get out of it, I said I will give him...he will be among the first to know the results of
the investigation.
To live up to that promise, I called his office and I told his office that the report is now
finished. And on Monday, February 14, I got a return call telling me to go to
Malacañang at two o'clock that afternoon.
SEN. CAYETANO. And after your visit on February 14, did you have any occasion to
talk to the President again?
MR. YULO. About BW?
SEN. CAYETANO. Yes.
MR. YULO. No, Your Honor.
SEN. CAYETANO. So, the February 14 was solely for the BW shares?
MR. YULO. That is correct, Your Honor.
SEN. CAYETANO. Thank you. Thank you very much, Mr. Chief Justice.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. The honorable Senator-Judge Coseteng.
SEN. COSETENG. Thank you, Mr. Chief Justice.
Mr. Yulo, how did you come across the name "President's friends"?
MR. YULO. Come again?
SEN. COSETENG. The "President's friends"? You used that in your testimony that
they were "President's friends".
MR. YULO. Oh, because it was all over the papers, Your Honor. The papers would
talk about the "friends of the President" and the Midnight Cabinet.
SEN. COSETENG. And the "friends of the President" would use this when they are
trading, when they were buying or selling or transacting?
MR. YULO. The BW stock was known in the Stock Exchange as a stock owned by
Dante Tan, who is a friend of the President.
SEN. COSETENG. And so when the others that you claim are using the same term
when they would buy or sell, were they given preferential treatment?
MR. YULO. I don't understand the question, Your Honor.
SEN. COSETENG. When other persons would buy and sell and they are known as
"President's friends," were they given special treatment?
MR. YULO. What buy? The Stock Exchange you mean, Your Honor?
SEN. COSETENG. Yes.
MR. YULO. What special treatment?
SEN. COSETENG. I don't know, because why would they want to use the term that
they were "President's friends"?
MR. YULO. I do not understand the question, Your Honor.
SEN. COSETENG. In other words, if somebody comes to you and say, "I want to buy
this," do they say that they are "President's friends"?
MR. YULO. No. This was the rumor going on among the brokers, Your Honor.
SEN. COSETENG. So that was just your conclusion that these were "President's
friends"?
MR. YULO. It wasn't my conclusion, Your Honor. It was what was being talked about
among the brokers themselves. I do not--I'm not a broker, so I do not buy and sell
shares, Your Honor.
SEN. COSETENG. Okay. While BW shares were going up and subsequently down,
other shares were also going up and down?
MR. YULO. That's correct, Your Honor.
SEN. COSETENG. C&P Homes went up more than 400%, were there other
investigations conducted by the Exchange?
MR. YULO. As I mentioned earlier, Your Honor, there is a trading bandwidth. So
when the trading bandwidth is breached, that was what would trigger a demand for a,
what we call a disclosure from the company. And if the disclosure is not believable or
is not given in, it would trigger a trading halt and an investigation could happen, Your
Honor.
SEN. COSETENG. So the other like, 20 or 30 other stocks that went up more than
200, 300, 400% did not trigger any signal?
MR. YULO. The job of the CSG was to operate along the rules, Your Honor. So, as
long as if the 400% happened over a period of time-SEN. COSETENG. Over the same month.
MR. YULO. --not on a pay-day basis and it will not breach the 50% uptick, then it
may not necessarily trigger any investigation. And also, Your Honor, an investigation
is triggered by reports and/or complaints or rumors going around. If nothing ill-bad
about a stock is heard, then it is considered normal and it's purely market forces,
Your Honor.
SEN. COSETENG. So all the other stocks that went to your 30 other stocks, that
went up 2, 3, 4 and more than 400% within the same month or same two weeks, you
didn't mind those stocks?
MR. YULO. Our CSG would also investigate anything that breached the trading
bandwidth.
SEN. COSETENG. Did they in effect and which ones?
MR. YULO. I'm sure they did, Your Honor.
SEN. COSETENG. Which ones?
MR. YULO. I cannot remember because these things happen almost everyday, Your
Honor. Anyway, the records of the Stock Exchange are available for that, Your
Honor.
SEN. COSETENG. Yes. Just--we would like to also know what other stocks were
investigated because it seems like--there's some singling out of BW among all the
rest that were traded at that particular time.
MR. YULO. It's not a singling out, Your Honor. It was just that BW really stood out,
Your Honor.
SEN. COSETENG. Yes, and nothing else?
MR. YULO. There were other stocks but they were normal in the course of business-everyday buying and selling. You know there are about 14,000 transactions a day,
Your Honor. So, many transactions would have problems....
SEN. COSETENG. So if C&P, for example, went up 430%, that's normal?
MR. YULO. In one day? In one day, that would be investigated, Your Honor.
SEN. COSETENG. No, within that month. Because we are talking of months, like
October-MR. YULO. No, Your Honor, because the trading bandwidth is 50% uptick on a daily
basis or last quoted price. So, you can have a 50% increase today or 49% nothing
will happen, tomorrow again, 49% on top of the 49%, so you can imagine the
multiplier effect within a period of time. So, it could be increasing daily by 49% but it
will not necessarily warrant an investigation, because those were the rules of the
Exchange of the bandwidth.
SEN. COSETENG. You mentioned earlier about a second round, that you noticed
there was a second round and you were not going to allow this to happen that time.
Are you saying that you allowed it the first time and that you were not going to allow it
the second time?
MR. YULO. No, it was a warning that we were giving the brokers, sort of, sort of
telling them, "Hold your horses, don't do this again."
SEN. COSETENG. You mentioned that you were calling the DOF to help the
Exchange out. Aren't the brokers supposed to be responsible for paying?
MR. YULO. Well, yes, Your Honor, the correct....
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Let's just finish the answer.
MR. YULO. The clients, those who buy and sell shares do it through the brokers. So
the clients are responsible to the brokers and the brokers are responsible to each
other. However, in the event that brokers go bankrupt or the clients do not pay the
brokers, then the Exchange will be left holding the bag, Your Honor. And if that
happens, then if the Exchange does not have enough funds to back it up, for
example, we only have less than a hundred million at that time, whereas other stock
exchanges--if I remember right, Thailand has between two to four billion baht-compared to our funds, we are really very poor, and so it could trigger a collapse,
Your Honor. So it was no longer just the concern of the brokers, it becomes a
concern of the Stock Exchange itself.
SEN. COSETENG. Thank you.
MR. YULO. Your Honor, the Stock Exchange itself is also the brokers because it is
collectively owned by all the brokers.
SEN. COSETENG. Thank you, Mr. Chief Justice.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. The Chair will now recognize
the honorable Senator-Judge Revilla. After that, the honorable Senator-Judge Enrile.
SEN. REVILLA. Thank you, Mr. Chief Justice.
Mr. Yulo, I understand you are now staying in a safehouse as a result of your
testifying in this Impeachment Court?
MR. YULO. That's correct, Your Honor.
SEN. REVILLA. Why?
MR. YULO. Dahil sa mga threats ho na dumarating.
SEN. REVILLA. Meron bang… is there somebody harassing you?
MR. YULO. Aside from nasabi ko na po, wala na po.
SEN. REVILLA. Wala na?
MR. YULO. 'Yun hong bomb threat ho at saka 'yung driver ko at saka 'yung aming
househelp.
SEN. REVILLA. Okay, 'yun lang po ang gusto kong malaman.
MR. YULO. Salamat po.
SEN. REVILLA. Salamat din.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. The honorable Senator-Judge Enrile.
SEN. ENRILE. G. Yulo, gusto ko lang linawin po 'yung mga sinabi ng Pangulo sa
inyo. Ang natatandaan kong unang sinabi sa inyo ng Pangulo ay, sabi niya, "Kung
may kasalanan si Dante Tan, wala akong magagawa." Totoo ba 'yun?
MR. YULO. Iyon po iyong 23rd November. Iyon po 'yung last call na po iyon.
SEN. ENRILE. Sinabi niya iyon?
MR. YULO. Ang kumpleto hong sentence, sabi niya nga, kasi po ang nangyari po
doon, nung sinabi ko na nga sa kaniya na ibibigay ko na lang sa kaniya ang resulta
ng investigation namin, ang sagot niya po doon, "Kung sabagay, kung may
kasalanan, wala tayong magagawa, pero kaibigan natin 'yan, tumutulong na sa akin
iyan nung Senado pa."
SEN. ENRILE. Ang sinabi niya "Kaibigan natin 'yan. Tumu-tulong sa atin 'yan.
Mabuting tao yan." Hindi ba sinabi niya iyon?
MR. YULO. Mga ganoon, oho.
SEN. ENRILE. Pagkatapos, sinabi niya, "Expedite the investigation".
MR. YULO. Sinabi rin po 'yon.
SEN. ENRILE. Pagkatapos, sabi niya sa iyo, "Bahala ka na".
MR. YULO. Nagamit rin po 'yon.
SEN. ENRILE. Kaya nga, sinabi niya 'yon?
MR. YULO. Opo.
SEN. ENRILE. Maaari kaya ang ibig niyang sabihin doon sa "bahala ka na" ay, I
leave the matter to you?
MR. YULO. He was leaving the matter to me.
SEN. ENRILE. Kaya nga. Iyon lang. Maaaring 'yon ang maaaring interpretasyon?
MR. YULO. Hindi po ganoon ang.…
SEN. ENRILE. Kaya nga. "I leave the matter to you".
MR. YULO. He leaves the matter to me to come up with a favorable report.
SEN. ENRILE. Iyon ang interpretation mo, pero ang ibig sabihin niya, I leave the
matter to you. Maaaring ganoon ang ibig sabihin noong "bahala ka na".
MR. YULO. Hindi ganoon ho ang pagkaintindi ko.
SEN. ENRILE. Maaari kayang sinabi niya, "See what you can do about the
problem"?
MR. YULO. He did not say those words, Your Honor.
SEN. ENRILE. Pero iyon din ang maaaring meaning noong "bahala ka na." Hindi ba?
MR. YULO. That is not how it arrived with me, Your Honor.
' SEN. ENRILE. Okay. Maaari ding ang ibig niyang sabihin, "Do what you think can
be done about the problem." Maaari ding interpretasyon iyon noong "bahala ka na",
hindi ba?
MR. YULO. Ang dating ho ng mga tawag na 'yon, ang interpretasyon ko ho ay
kaibigan niya si Dante Tan, matagal nang tumutulong, so kung kailangan ay tulungan
natin kung kaya kong tulungan.
SEN. ENRILE. Maari din na ang ibig sabihin noong "bahala ka na" ay take care of the
problem.
MR. YULO. In favor of the person.
SEN. ENRILE. Basta, iyong bahala ka na is subject to possible interpretations.
MR. YULO. Hindi po.
SEN. ENRILE. From the mind of the President, ibig sabihin noon, take care of the
problem, do what you can do about the problem, see what you can do about it or I
leave the matter to you. Lahat noong mga sinabi mo, that was bunga 'yon ng
interpretasyon mo doon sa ginamit niyang salita na, "bahala ka na".
MR. YULO. Hindi po. Bunga po ng mga tawag po niya at 'yong tono ng pagkatawag
po niya, at 'yong mga pagsasalita po niya…
SEN. ENRILE. Kaya nga, 'yan ay bunga ng interpretasyon mo sa pangyayari?
MR. YULO. Bunga po ng pagkakaintindi ko sa mga sinasabi niya sa akin.
SEN. ENRILE. Kaya nga. Sa intindi mo?
MR.YULO. Opo.
SEN. ENRILE. Salamat.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Then the honorable Senator-Judge Miriam Defensor
Santiago. After that, no more reservations have been made.
SEN. DEFENSOR SANTIAGO. Mr. Witness, I have only one question but I will have
to ask a series of preliminary questions. The preliminary questions are nothing but
restatements of the investigation report. So could you just kindly answer yes until I
reached the main question when you can take your time and I will alert you so that
you will not be caught by surprise, since I'm trying to keep myself within two minutes?
The investigation report of the CSG was intended primarily to determine the
complicity of the PSE member-brokers in the alleged manipulative schemes and
devices of Dante Tan. Is that correct?
MR. YULO. Yes, Your Honor.
SEN. DEFENSOR SANTIAGO. The report found eight member-brokers liable for
complicity in the alleged manipulative schemes. Is that correct?
MR. YULO. Yes, Your Honor..
SEN. DEFENSOR SANTIAGO. These brokers, as stated in pages 58 to 61 of the
report are: PCCI, A.T. De Castro; AsiaSec; Securities 2000; Quality Guild;
Armstrong; and Angpin. Is that correct?
MR. YULO. Yes, Your Honor.
SEN. DEFENSOR SANTIAGO. The report recommended that the Business Conduct
and Ethics Committee should sanction the member-brokers I have just enumerated.
MR. YULO. Yes, Your Honor.
SEN. DEFENSOR SANTIAGO. If I heard you right yesterday, you said that you
approved the report of the CSG. Is that correct?
MR. YULO. I endorsed it, yes, Your Honor.
SEN. DEFENSOR SANTIAGO. You endorsed it. You also said that while you are not
a member of the Business Conduct and Ethics Committee, you attend their meetings
in your capacity as PSE President and you should, therefore, be aware of the acts
and decisions of the committee. Would that be correct?
MR. YULO. That's correct, Your Honor.
SEN. DEFENSOR SANTIAGO. Now what I would like to know is, what actions or,
more specifically, what sanctions were taken by the Business Conduct and Ethics
Committee and the PSE Board against the alleged erring brokers, if any such actions
were taken?
MR. YULO. The BSE Committee, Your Honor, met and deliberated on this
investigation report, as they should, and I think they had several meetings. But then,
however, the meetings were interrupted because BW got an injunction from a court,
Your Honor.
SEN. DEFENSOR SANTIAGO. So, in other words, no action was taken?
MR. YULO. It was interrupted by an injunction, Your Honor.
SEN. DEFENSOR SANTIAGO. All right. Now, here is the main question. Is it likely
that the Business Conduct and Ethics Committee and the PSE Board did not agree
with the report and did not approve it?
MR. YULO. No, Your Honor, because there were discussions about it yet and there
was no decision yet when the injunction arrived.
SEN. DEFENSOR SANTIAGO. Yes, we understand that, but is it likely that they did
not agree with the report and that's why no action was taken on it?
MR. YULO. There was no vote or agreement yet, Your Honor. As a matter of fact, we
spent a lot of time just on the terminology of events because some of the members of
the Business Conduct and Ethics Committee, like, for example, Ting Jaime, who was
a nonbroker, and a Gary Teves, so he wanted to understand a lot of the terms. So I
spent at least two meetings just explaining the terminology, Your Honor.
SEN. DEFENSOR SANTIAGO. I will no longer debate the point that the Business
Conduct and Ethics Committee and the Board may not have acted on the report
because they did not approve or did not agree with it.
Finally, just one little question before my time expires. I'll have to give the ordinary,
the routine reminder that you are under oath and this is the question: Did you or any
other member of the Board of Trustees of PSE trade directly or indirectly on BW
shares?
MR. YULO. I, myself, no, Your Honor, because part of my contract with the Exchange
and the bylaws prohibits the president thereof to buy or sell any stock. As members
of the Board, as you very well know, all the members of the Board, except for three,
are brokers, Your Honor. So, anyone of them would have probably traded in the BW,
Your Honor.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. We have two more, the Honorable Senator-Judge
Jaworski and after that the Senate President.
SEN. JAWORSKI. Thank you, Your Honor.
As a former PSE president, when there is an anomalous transaction going on PSE,
what is the time frame you give the CSG to come up with a resolution of the matter?
MR. YULO. If I remember correctly, per our rules, Your Honor, it should not be more
than six months.
SEN. JAWORSKI. And in this specific situation, what transpired?
MR. YULO. Well, there was interruption here, Your Honor, because, you know, there
was a time when the Securities and Exchange Commission asked us to turn over our
preliminary investigation, so there was an interval. And then, it was given back to us
again on.... Well, this was in November, so by February it was finished. It made the
time frame as far as I was concerned, Your Honor.
SEN. JAWORSKI. But didn't you think that as the head of the PSE, it was within your
knowledge and control to stand pat and say that, "We got to, you know, put this
together. We are in it. We are in the peak of the investigation and we believe that we
must complete it."
MR. YULO. If you read our reply to the Chairman and when we first met on
November 3rd demanding us to turn over, we did not want to do it, Your Honor. And
the only way we would do it is when the Chairman wrote me an order, ordering me to
turn over our report, or whatever we had. And if he does that, he is my regulator, I
have to follow under contempt, Your Honor.
SEN. JAWORSKI. But, anyway, as a PSE former president, do you have a
compilation of anomalous transactions in the PSE, and how many were they during
your tenure?
MR. YULO. That would be logged at the records of the Compliance and Surveillance
Group-SEN. JAWORSKI. But would you remember?
MR. YULO. --and the list of the disclosures group. I would not remember them all,
Your Honor.
SEN. JAWORSKI. Was there something close to the magnitude of BW?
MR. YULO. Not that I know of, Your Honor.
SEN. JAWORSKI. Well, I'm asking this question because apparently there are
statements that there are more anomalous situations that have occurred in the past, that has not been brought in the forefront of
media. And so I just ask this question so you may have a chance to clear it.
MR. YULO. I think the best evidence of that, Your Honor, would be the records of the
Stock Exchange, because they are all there, that's transparent, and it's free for
anyone to look at.
SEN. JAWORSKI. Well, and lastly, you're still in the safehouse?
MR. YULO. Yes, Your Honor.
SEN. JAWORSKI. You feel safe?
MR. YULO. I don't know what to feel, Your Honor.
SEN. JAWORSKI. Well, I hope you're safe and continue to be safe.
MR. YULO. Inside this room, I feel safe, Your Honor.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Finally, the Senate President is recognized.
THE SENATE PRESIDENT. Mr. Yulo, what were you and Mr. Yasay quarreling about
that hit the pages of the national newspapers?
MR. YULO. Because, Your Honor, I remember that the Chairman asked us to give
him a preliminary report.
THE SENATE PRESIDENT. I'm only asking you what was it all about.
MR. YULO. It will relate, Your Honor, because I have to lay down the premise, Your
Honor. So, may I continue?
THE SENATE PRESIDENT. Yes.
MR. YULO. He asked us to submit a preliminary report which we did not, Your Honor.
And when we did so, we did so on the understanding that what he meant now, that
is, we would stop investigating. Meaning, he would be the one to continue and our
job is finished, and he confirmed this on November 9, when we met him. However,
two days after that, on November 11, he came up with a letter to us and also a press
conference saying that, in effect, number one, it is the brokers who committed wrong
and not Dante Tan; and number two, ordering us and saying that the SEC does not
agree, that the Philippine Stock Exchange stops its investigation.
So with those occurrences, I felt there was something terribly wrong, Your Honor,
because, number one, nobody had finished investigating, so how could he come up
with some kind of a conclusion that Dante Tan was innocent and that the brokers
here were at fault alone; and number two, why would he now say that the SEC does
not agree that we terminate our investigation when it was he himself who asked us to
terminate.
So I took exception to this strongly, Your Honor, and I called my own press
conference, and I mentioned these two concerns of mine, and so the media blew it
up and they said, "Yulo said," "Yasay said." So we were fighting in the media, Your
Honor. And the papers would testify to all of this.
THE SENATE PRESIDENT. So that statement that it was the brokers who were at
fault and not Dante Tan came from Mr. Yasay?
MR. YULO. That was printed in some of the papers, Your Honor.
THE SENATE PRESIDENT. Do you know if he ever denied that?
MR. YULO. He denied it later, Your Honor, I think in the papers also, I read it. He was
saying he was misquoted.
THE SENATE PRESIDENT. How later is that later?
MR. YULO. I do not recall, but the newspapers maybe a few days after that or a day
after, Your Honor.
THE SENATE PRESIDENT. Did you talk to him about it?
MR. YULO. No, I just read it in the papers at that time, Your Honor. We were sort of - I was aggrieved, Your Honor, so I was on a fighting mood to…
THE SENATE PRESIDENT. You were still in a fighting mood when you met at
Ciudad Fernandina?
MR. YULO. Yes, Your Honor.
THE SENATE PRESIDENT. And did you bring it up to him at that time?
MR. YULO. Yes, Your Honor. And he was rationalizing, and so he was saying, "Alam
mo, tinatawag ako ng Presidente, I'm under pressure. Ikaw ba tinatawag? Then I
said, "Oo." "O, pareho pala tayong tinatawag," ganiyan, ganiyan. "Mukhang wala
tayong choice dito." That's how he said it, Your Honor. And he was trying to amend
things and to be friends again.
THE SENATE PRESIDENT. Thank you.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Thank you.
Having concluded with the testimony of the witness, Mr. Yulo is now excused.
MR. YULO. Thank you, Your Honor.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Thank you.
The Majority Leader.
THE MAJORITY LEADER. Mr. Chief Justice, the Prosecution will now present its
next witness, Atty. Perfecto Yasay, Jr.
REP. GONZALEZ. Mr. Chief Justice, Your Honors, our next witness is Mary Anne
Corpuz.
THE MAJORITY LEADER. I'm sorry.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Not Yasay?
REP. GONZALEZ. Not yet, Your Honor.
THE MAJORITY LEADER. Mary Anne Corpuz then. The parties will please…
REP. GONZALEZ. The Prosecutor to present the witness is Congressman
Rodriguez. Assistant Prosecutor is Atty. Marie Yuviengco, Mr. Chief Justice.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. And for the Defense, who will be the cross-examining....
THE MAJORITY LEADER. May we hear from the Defense?
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. ...Assisting cross-examining Counsel for the Defense?
THE MAJORITY LEADER. May we hear from the Defense?
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Cross-examining and assisting cross-examining
Counsel.
MR. DAZA. I shall be the cross-examining Counsel and
Atty. Jose Flaminiano will assist me.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Thank you.
Yes, what is the pleasure of the honorable Senator Sotto?
SEN. SOTTO. Mr. Chief Justice, just to refresh my memory on procedures. Are the
counsels from the Defense and the Prosecution allowed to object to the questions of
Senator-Judges?
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. That was announced before. They can object to
questions propounded.
SEN. SOTTO. Thank you I wanted to refresh my memory about that.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Even in regular courts, when a judge would propound
questions and there are grounds to object thereto, counsel can even object.
SEN. SOTTO. Thank you, Your Honor.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Where is Ms. Corpuz?
REP. RODRIGUEZ. Somebody called her already from the holding room, Your
Honor.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Let her hurry up. [There was a pause.]
The Secretary, swear in the witness.
THE SECRETARY. Kindly raise your right hand and put your left hand on the Holy
Bible and answer me.
You, MARY ANNE CORPUZ, do swear that the evidence you shall give in this case
now pending between the Philippines and Joseph Ejercito Estrada, President of the
Philippines, shall be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help you
God.
MS. CORPUZ. I do.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. You may take your seat,
Ms. Corpuz. Prosecutor Rodriguez.
REP. RODRIGUEZ. Thank you, Your Honor.
Ms. Witness, kindly state your name and other personal circumstances.
MS. CORPUZ. I am Mary Anne Parial Corpuz, married, of legal age, and a resident
of No. 5, Kingsville Real Subdivision, Antipolo City. And I am the executive assistant
to the president of the Philippine Stock Exchange since June 1997, Your Honor.
REP. RODRIGUEZ. Your Honor, the Honorable Chief Justice and the members of
the Impeachment Court, we are presenting this witness for the purpose of proving
that at the time of the presidency of Mr. Yulo in the Philippine Stock Exchange, this
witness was the executive assistant assigned to the president. That during the
incumbency of Mr. Yulo and during that time when the witness was the one assisting
Mr. Yulo in the office, the President called Mr. Yulo four times; that these calls were
made on November 17, 18, 22 and 23, 1999; that the memorandum of the President
to the Securities and Exchange Commission, dated November 17, 1999 was faxed to
Chairman Yulo on the same day; that these were recorded in the logbook of the
witness.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. You may now proceed.
REP. RODRIGUEZ. We can perhaps agree with--the proceedings I offer, if the
Defense will agree, Your Honor, that we stipulate on
those facts.
MR. DAZA. Mr. Chief Justice.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Atty. Daza.
MR. DAZA. It is with reluctance and little regret that we can agree to stipulate that if
this witness testifies, she will testify on the basis of the points of offer stated by the
Prosecutor.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. In which case then, you should proceed, Prosecutor
Rodriguez.
MR. DAZA. No I said, we are willing to stipulate.
REP. RODRIGUEZ. Ah, you are willing...
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. On all, on all?.
MR. DAZA. On all the points of offer stated by the Prosecutor.
REP. RODRIGUEZ. Thank you, Your Honor.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. So, the witness can be excused.
REP. RODRIGUEZ. We can forego with the testimony of the witness, Your Honor.
Thank you, Ms. Corpuz.
MS. CORPUZ. Thank you, Your Honor.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. The testimony of the witness is dispensed with in view
of the stipulation.
Thank you, Ms. Corpuz.
MS. CORPUZ. Thank you, Your Honor.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. You are very lucky.
Next witness for the prosecution.
REP. GONZALEZ. Mr. Chief Justice, the next witness is-THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Prosecutor Gonzalez.
REP. GONZALEZ. --Mr. Emeterio Perez, a member of media.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Emeterio Perez. Is he around?
REP. GONZALEZ. He is in the holding room, Mr. Chief Justice.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Let somebody fetch him and do
it fast.
Have you talked to the Defense, Prosecutor Gonzalez, on the possibility again of
stipulation on the-as to the testimony of this Emeterio Perez?
REP. GONZALEZ. Well, Mr. Chief Justice, the witness will be presented for the
following purposes.
MR. DAZA. May we know first the name of the witness?
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Emeterio Perez.
REP. GONZALEZ. Emeterio S.B. Perez, business editor of
The Daily Tribune.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. I understand the document had been marked.
REP. GONZALEZ. The only document to be marked here, Your Honor, which has
been marked...
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. It's the case of The Tribune?
REP. GONZALEZ. Yes, Your Honor.
MR. DAZA. If the purpose is just to identify the column of the witness written on
March 26, 2000.
REP. GONZALEZ. Will you stipulate that Mr. Perez was in the office of Chairman
Yasay at the time when the call from the President was made?
MR. DAZA. No, whatever is in the column because the column is the best evidence
of its contents. And we're willing to stipulate regarding that column so that we can
dispense with the testimony of the witness.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Yes.
REP. GONZALEZ. The column will just state the recollection of the witness.
MR. DAZA. Whatever was recorded by him as stated in the column, we're willing to
stipulate.
REP. GONZALEZ. Yes, but as to the circumstances...
MR. DAZA. We are not going to question his capability to remember as a journalist.
We're not going to get into that. I suppose as stated in the subpoena duces tecum...
REP. GONZALEZ. Can I just state, Mr. Chief Justice, the purposes and let us see if
we can stipulate?
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Yeah, you better state the purposes before the arrival of
the witness, because until now he is not around.
REP. GONZALEZ. The witness is here now, Mr. Chief Justice.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. The witness is there already. In which case, the
Secretary should now swear in the witness.
THE SECRETARY. Kindly raise your right hand, put your left hand on the Holy Bible,
and answer me.
You, EMETERIO PEREZ, do swear that the evidence you shall give in the case now
pending between the Philippines and Joseph Ejercito Estrada, President of the
Philippines, shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you
God?
MR. PEREZ. I do.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Take your seat.
REP. GONZALEZ. Mr. Chief Justice, the witness-THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Prosecutor Gonzalez.
REP. GONZALEZ. --is being presented for the following reasons:
First, that sometime in November 1998, when President Joseph Ejercito Estrada
called Chairman Yasay of the Securities and Exchange Commission, the witness
was present in that office.
No. 2. That sometime in the same...on November 1999, then Securities and
Exchange Commission Chairman Perfecto Yasay Jr. received a call from the
President and in that telephone conversation, the President asked Mr. Yasay to clear
Dante Tan in the SEC's investigations on price manipulation and the insider trading
of BW Resources Corporation.
No. 3. That after this call, Mr. Yasay called then Philippine Stock Exchange Chair
Jose Luis "Nonoy" Yulo to ask the latter whether the President had called him.
And, No. 4. That the contents of these telephone conversations were immediately
disclosed to the witness.
And, No. 5. That portions of the President's call were reported in the column "Inside
Track" of The Daily Tribune.
THE SENATE PRESIDENT. Mr. Chief Justice.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. The Senate President.
MR. DAZA. Mr. Chief Justice.
THE SENATE PRESIDENT. Excuse me.
I noticed that this witness is being presented to, perhaps, corroborate what would
otherwise be a statement given by Mr. Yasay as to the telephone conversation. Far
be it for me to suggest how to do your presentation of evidence, but I'd like to find
out. Why is it that you are not presenting Mr. Yasay first?
REP. GONZALEZ. Your Honor, this witness has been pleading to us to be dispensed
with as soon as possible because he has been absent from his office for the last five
days. And he is already asking to be relieved of this burden. That's the reason, Your
Honor.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Stipulations can solve the problem.
REP. GONZALEZ. Well, if the Defense will agree?
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Have you completed the purposes already?
REP. GONZALEZ. Yes, Your Honor please.
MR. DAZA. We can agree to stipulate on the column that was written on March 26,
which is shown by the column and this has been marked.
REP. GONZALEZ. Will you also agree that this witness was present in that office and
he overheard the telephone conversation between the President and Chairman
Yasay, which eventually was written in his column?
MR. DAZA. We cannot stipulate as to that because, obviously, this witness would not
know who was on the other end of the telephone.
REP. GONZALEZ. That is precisely what we are saying, Your Honor.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Then, you can do. You can prove that.
MR. DAZA. May we just get the date? In the offer, was the date mentioned in the
column? Because he writes daily columns.
REP. GONZALEZ. The date was not mentioned specifically. It was March…it was in
November of 19… It was November of 1998, Your Honor, no, 1999.
MR. DAZA. No. But the premarking, the copy of the…
REP. GONZALEZ. The column appeared in March.
MR. DAZA. No, that's why what was premarked was a column that appeared in
March about an incident that happened in November.
REP. GONZALEZ. That's correct.
MR. DAZA. All right. Just to be clear about it.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. You may now proceed, Prosecutor Gonzalez.
REP. GONZALEZ. Will you please state your name?
MR. PEREZ. I'm Emeterio Perez…
MR. DAZA. I am sorry to have to interrupt the distinguished Prosecutor. The crossexamining counsel will be myself and I shall be assisted by Atty. Roderick Salazar III.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Not Flaminiano.
MR. DAZA. For this particular witness.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Yes, yes, Salazar.
REP. GONZALEZ. Again, will you please state your name?
MR. PEREZ. I'm Emeterio Perez.
REP. GONZALEZ. What is your occupation or your profession?
MR. PEREZ. I'm a newsman by profession.
REP. GONZALEZ. In what newspaper are you connected with, if any?
MR. PEREZ. I'm now working with The Daily Tribune, Your Honor.
REP. GONZALEZ. You said you now work with The Daily Tribune. Before The Daily
Tribune, were you connected with any other newspaper?
MR. PEREZ. I was Acting Business Editor of The Manila Times which was acquired
from the Gokongweis by the new owners.
REP. GONZALEZ. Now, what was your position in The Manila Times before?
MR. PEREZ. I was originally hired as Assistant Business Editor; then eventually
appointed as Acting Business Editor.
REP. GONZALEZ. What about in The Daily Tribune, what is your position?
MR. PEREZ. I'm now the Business Editor of The Daily Tribune and I also write
"Inside Track," a column which appears every Thursday and Sunday, Your Honor.
REP. GONZALEZ. As the Business Editor, can you tell us what are your basic duties,
Mr. Witness?
MR. PEREZ. I edit the stories that appear in the business section and I supervise the
reporters that cover the business beats, Your Honor.
REP. GONZALEZ. As Business Editor, do you also interview government officials or
private individuals in business?
MR. PEREZ. Yes, from time to time, I also go out, Your Honor, to interview some
business personalities and government officials.
REP. GONZALEZ. Do you know former Chairman of the Securities and Exchange
Commission Perfecto Yasay Jr.?
MR. PEREZ. Yes, Your Honor.
REP. GONZALEZ. Why do you know him?
MR. PEREZ. Because I used to go to the SEC and I have been covering SEC since
1986. I cover him since 1993 when he was appointed Associate Commissioner, and
until he left the Commission sometime in March 2000, Your Honor.
REP. GONZALEZ. You just stated that you used to visit the Securities and Exchange
Commission and Chairman Yasay in that office. Sometime in November of 1999, do
you remember having visited Mr. Chairman Yasay in the SEC?
MR. PEREZ. Yes, Your Honor.
REP. GONZALEZ. Do you recall why you were there?
MR. PEREZ. I was looking for some materials, for some articles, for stories that I
would later on write about.
REP. GONZALEZ. Now, you said that in November 1999, you visited SEC Chairman
Perfecto Yasay Jr. at his office in the Securities and Exchange Commission. At the
time of your visit, do you remember anything unusual that took place?
MR. PEREZ. Yes, Your Honor.
REP. GONZALEZ. What was that?
MR. PEREZ. There was...He received a call from the President, Your Honor.
REP. GONZALEZ. Why do you say it was a call from the President?
MR. PEREZ. Because the staff member of the office of the Chairman called through
the intercom to tell Chairman Yasay that there was a call for him.
REP. GONZALEZ. And what happened after the staff of Chairman Yasay told him
that there was a call from the President?
MR. PEREZ. He looked at me and said: "Oh, it's the President", Your Honor.
REP. GONZALEZ. After that what happened? Do you remember if Chairman Yasay
answered the telephone?
MR. PEREZ. Yes, Your Honor.
REP. GONZALEZ. And how far were you when the Chairman answered the
telephone?
MR. PEREZ. I was immediately by...in front of his desk, Your Honor. About three feet
away.
REP. GONZALEZ. Yes. And what happened? What did you hear, if any?
MR. PEREZ. Yes, Mr. Yasay greeted the President. "Good morning po, Mr.
President."
REP. GONZALEZ. Now, when you told us that you heard Chairman Yasay greet the
caller, "Good morning po, Mr. President," can you tell us how you heard Yasay's
words of greeting?
MR. PEREZ. The emphasis was on "po". "Good morning po, Mr. President."
REP. GONZALEZ. And then what did you remember, if anything else happened?
MR. PEREZ. There was some lapse of time. Apparently, he was listening to the
President at the other line. And then I just heard Mr. Yasay say....
REP. GONZALEZ. Yes, what did he say?
MR. PEREZ. He said: "Hindi po maaari iyan, Mr. President. Kailangan po nating
mag-imbestiga. Kasi po, pag ginawa po natin iyon, bubuwelta po sa atin, lalo na po
sa inyo. Kayo po ang tatamaan," Your Honor.
REP. GONZALEZ. Those were the words that you heard Mr. Yasay say in the
telephone?
MR. PEREZ. Yes, Your Honor.
REP. GONZALEZ. Now, after Chairman Yasay said the words you just quoted to us,
"Hindi po natin puwedeng gawin iyon," and so forth, what else, if any, happened?
MR. PEREZ. Well, when he put down the telephone, apparently they finished the
conversation. Mr. Yasay instructed his staff outside his office to call up President Luis
Yulo of the Philippine Stock Exchange, Your Honor.
REP. GONZALEZ. Why do you know that it was Mr. Luis Yulo that he was calling?
MR. PEREZ. Because Chairman Yasay said: "Pakitawagan mo nga si Mr. Yulo."
REP. GONZALEZ. And what happened? Was the call to Mr. Yulo made?
MR. PEREZ. Yes, Your Honor.
REP. GONZALEZ. And what happened?
MR. PEREZ. The only thing I remembered was the first words of Chairman Yasay.
He said: "Tinawagan ka ba ni Presidente?"
REP. GONZALES. That was what you heard Mr. Yasay mention over the phone?
MR. PEREZ. Yes, Your Honor.
REP. GONZALEZ. And you're saying that he was talking to Mr. Yulo.
MR. PEREZ. He was talking with Mr. Yulo.
REP. GONZALEZ. After he talked with Mr. Yulo over the phone, what happened
next, if you remember?
MR. PEREZ. Well, it's just a short talk. And then when he put down the phone, he
went to me. As a newsman's instinct, I asked him: "Oh, Mr. Chairman, what
happened?"
REP. GONZALEZ. What did Mr. Yasay say?
MR. PEREZ. And he said: "'Yon. Gusto ni Presidente i-clear ko si Dante Tan."
MR. SALAZAR. Objection, Your Honor. We would like to request, Your Honor, that
the....
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. On what ground is the objection?
MR. SALAZAR. It calls for a hearsay evidence, Your Honor.
REP. GONZALEZ. Your Honor, please, that was....
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. The witness had already answered the question.
MR. SALAZAR. We therefore move, Your Honor, that the statement made by the
witness be stricken off the record for being....
REP. GONZALEZ. Your Honor please...
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. The answer may remain in the record as part of the
narration of the witness-MR. SALAZAR. We submit.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. --and not necessarily to prove the truth of the statement
of the other party.
REP. GONZALEZ. After Mr. Yasay told you that the President wanted him to clear
Dante Tan, what happened?
MR. PEREZ. Well, I felt frustrated.
REP. GONZALEZ. He told you he talked to Mr. Yulo. What happened?
MR. PEREZ. Well, after that, he ended our day. I had to leave the room already.
REP. GONZALEZ. Again?
MR. PEREZ. Yeah, I had to leave after that.
REP. GONZALEZ. You left?
MR. PEREZ. Yes, I left, Your Honor.
REP. GONZALEZ. And do you remember having written an article about this incident
in the office of Mr. Yasay?
MR. PEREZ. Yes, Your Honor.
REP. GONZALEZ. Do you remember when did you write that article?
MR. PEREZ. I wrote that column "Inside Track" on March 25 and it appeared the
following day on March 26, Your Honor.
MR. GONZALEZ. If I show you that article, will you be able to recognize it?
MR. PEREZ. Yes, Your Honor.
REP. GONZALEZ. I will show you this copy of The Daily Tribune -THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Has it been premarked?
REP. GONZALEZ. --which has been previously marked, Your Honors, as Exhibit
"QQQQQQQ", Your Honor; the first page is marked as "QQQQQQQ", the newspaper
itself, Mr. Chief Justice; and that page 4, on the commentary page, as Exhibit
"QQQQQQQ-1", and then the column "Inside Track" over the title "Fate of BW
Report" up to "New SEC Chairman," previously marked in evidence as Exhibit
"QQQQQQQ-2", copies of which, I think, have been distributed to the Court, as well
as to the Defense.
Will you please tell the Honorable Court the relation of this newspaper and the
articles appearing at page 4, marked as Exhibit "QQQQQQQ-2", to the item which
you said you wrote about that incident in the office of Mr. Yasay?
MR. PEREZ. I wrote here the... I wrote here, Your Honor, the things I heard when
Chairman Yasay was called by the President.
REP. GONZALEZ. Can you tell us, Mr. Perez, the reason why this item was made on
March 26, 2000 when the incident happened, according to you, on November of
1999?
MR. PEREZ. Well, Your Honor, it was just last ... a sort of last hurrah either against,...
if it pleased Mr. Yasay or not because Mr. Yasay was already on the exit. I think, his
term... He has left already March 25 or so.
REP. GONZALEZ. That was the reason why you published this item?
MR. PEREZ. Yes, Your Honor.
REP. GONZALEZ. That would be all for this witness, Mr. Chief Justice.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Cross-examination-MR. SALAZAR. Yes, Your Honor, please.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. --Atty....
MR. SALAZAR. If we may proceed, Your Honor.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. You may now proceed, Atty. Salazar.
MR. SALAZAR. Yes, Your Honor. Thank you.
Good afternoon, Mr. Perez.
MR. PEREZ. Good afternoon, Sir.
MR. SALAZAR. As the news editor of...as the Business News Editor of The Daily
Tribune, would you know the daily circulation of your newspaper for the month of
March 2000?
MR. PEREZ. I would not know. I am not...the Circulation Manager should know that. I
am the Business Editor.
MR. SALAZAR. So, you are not...
MR. PEREZ. The Business Editor has nothing to do with the circulation department,
Sir.
MR. SALAZAR. I see. I notice, Mr. Witness, that your exhibit... the Prosecution's
Exhibit "QQQQQQQ" had on the first page the headline "TAN TO SUFFER FATE-ESTRADA". This is Exhibit "QQQQQQQ."
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Show the document to the witness.
MR. SALAZAR. Would you confirm, Mr. Witness, that the headline thus read "TAN
TO SUFFER FATE--ESTRADA"...
REP. GONZALEZ. The best evidence is the document. It speaks for itself, Mr. Chief
Justice.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Sustained.
MR. SALAZAR. I notice that the headline, Mr. Witness, and we compare it to the title
of your article which says "FATE OF BW REPORT UP TO NEW SEC CHAIRMAN",
is that correct, Sir?
MR. PEREZ. Yes. Yes, Sir, I am sorry.
MR. SALAZAR. Would you agree with me, Sir, that between a report stating "TAN
TO SUFFER FATE--ESTRADA" and a column which would say, perhaps, a column
entitled, saying "The President calls SEC Chairman to clear Dante Tan" or "To clear
someone of a criminal investigation," wouldn't that fetch a headline material?
REP. GONZALEZ. Mr. Chief Justice, that calls for the opinion of the witness.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Since the witness is a newspaperman himself...
REP. GONZALEZ. But then the witness will have no control over editorial policies.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Then, let us get it from him. Witness may answer.
MR. PEREZ. Your Honor, Sir, you see, the front page of a newspaper is
prepared...no, may I -MR. SALAZAR.. Yes, please.
MR. PEREZ. --answer, please? Okay?
MR. SALAZAR. Okay.
MR. PEREZ. The front page of a newspaper is prepared by the national desk.
MR. SALAZAR. I see.
MR. PEREZ. Which means, the managing editor, the news editor, the deskman. That
removes the city editor which handles the supervision of the reporters. Now, I do not
handle the national news. I handle business news. And aside from that, I write for the
column. Now, if the head...there must be some difference, you mean, Sir?
MR. SALAZAR. No. I am saying, Sir, I am just asking for your comment on whether
your column, if it were entitled, "President Tries to ask SEC Chairman to Clear
Someone of Criminal Investigation" versus a headline to say, "TAN TO SUFFER
FATE--ESTRADA," wouldn't that, in your opinion, Sir, call for a headline material?
REP. GONZALEZ. That is precisely, Mr. Chief Justice, the question is really
objectionable.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. What is your objection now?
REP. GONZALEZ. It is asking for an opinion. As the counsel himself said, he is
asking for the opinion of the witness.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. In light of the previous answer of the witness, the
objection is sustained. He has nothing to do with the front page, according to him.
MR. SALAZAR. Yes, Your Honor. I will rephrase my question then.
As an editor, Mr. Witness, would you say that a headline saying, "President Trying to
Clear Someone of a Criminal Investigation," in your capacity as an editor, would fetch
a headline material rather than an innocuous statement saying, "TAN TO SUFFER
FATE"?
REP. GONZALEZ. The same objection, Your Honor. And this is not the editor. He is
the business editor only, Your Honor. He already said that he has no control over the
editorial policies.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. The objection has to be sustained.
MR. SALAZAR. Your Honor please, the witness is an editor and has discretion....
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. He has already answered-REP. GONZALEZ. He has already said it.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. --why he cannot do that.
MR. SALAZAR. We will proceed to another point, Your Honor.
You stated, Mr. Witness, that you were present during the alleged phone call.
MR. PEREZ. Yes, Sir.
MR. SALAZAR. And, I presume the phone call took place, as you have said earlier,
in the office of the Chairman of the SEC.
MR. PEREZ. Yes, Sir.
MR. SALAZAR. Did you ask Mr. Yasay whom he spoke with on the other line?
MR. PEREZ. I did not. In the beginning, I did not.
MR. SALAZAR. Okay. Is it correct for me to state, Sir, that at the time you wrote the
article on March 26, 2000, you still did not know who the other person was on the
other line?
MR. PEREZ. I knew that, Sir.
MR. SALAZAR. I see. But would it be accurate for me to state, Sir, that you even had
doubts as to whether it was the President who was on the other line?
REP. GONZALEZ. Misleading, Your Honor. He never said he had doubts.
MR. SALAZAR. Your Honor, we....
REP. GONZALEZ. It is misleading, Your Honor.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Objection is overruled. He is only asked whether he had
doubts.
MR. PEREZ. I have no doubts. It was the President, Sir.
MR. SALAZAR. I see. As a matter of fact, Sir, is it correct that in your very article,
Exhibit "QQQQQQQ-I", you even asked, and I quote....
REP. GONZALEZ. "QQQQQQQ-2"?
MR. SALAZAR. "Q-1", Sir.
REP. GONZALEZ. The....
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Both counsels should meet together to find out what is
the correct exhibit number. So, do not be quarreling on the exhibit number. You have
the exhibit there.
MR. SALAZAR. Your Honor please, Exhibit "QQQQQQQ-2" is the name "Emeterio
Perez."
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. You cannot be heard.
MR. SALAZAR. Nonetheless, Your Honor, we are referring to the paragraph in the
column, Mr. Chief Justice, which says, and I quote: "Was PSE President Jose Yulo at
the other end of the line?" Isn't that correct, Mr. Witness, that this is the statement
that you wrote in your column?
MR. PEREZ. Yes, Sir.
MR. SALAZAR. So you did entertain the possibility that another person like Mr. Yulo
with the title "President" was, in fact, on the other line? You did entertain that
possibility when you wrote the question: "Was PSE President Jose Luis Yulo at the
other end of the line?"
REP. GONZALEZ. Mr. Chief Justice, we will object. It is misleading because there
were two conversations on that day.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Do not telegraph the possible answer to the witness.
The objection is overruled.
REP. GONZALEZ. No. Because, Mr. Chief Justice, the counsel was asking....
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Do not elaborate. The Chair will make a ruling.
REP. GONZALEZ. Thank you.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. The witness may answer. The objection is overruled.
MR. PEREZ. May I have the question, please, again.
MR. SALAZAR. So, you did entertain the possibility that it was another person with a
title "President" that was on the other line like, perhaps, as you said, "PSE
President?" You did entertain that possibility? Yes or no, Sir?
MR. PEREZ. I did not entertain that. I am very certain that it was President Estrada.
Sa isang kolum kasi, 'no, minsan kasi magpapasok ka ng kaunting pangkiliti, eh.
Para bang, ano, mabiro mo naman iyong reader mo. Hindi ba?
MR. SALAZAR. I see.
MR. PEREZ. To make it interesting, hindi ba? Pero ang alam mo naman nandoon
naman sa sinasabi ng kolum kung sino iyon.
MR. SALAZAR. I see. But, with a statement saying, "Was PSE President Jose Yulo
at the other end of the line?", wouldn't that be true, Sir, that then, when you wrote the
article, and even now, you are still in doubt that the person at the other end of the line
was the President.
REP. GONZALEZ. Already answered.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Witness may answer.
MR. PEREZ. It could not be PSE President Yulo on the line because the SEC
Chairman is the regulator of the Philippine Stock Exchange and as Chairman of the
SEC, I never heard Chairman Yasay address PSE President Yulo "Mr. President"
and he never said "po" to Mr. Yulo, Sir.
MR. SALAZAR. But isn't it correct for me to state also, Sir, that when this alleged
phone call took place, the voice, the only voice that you actually heard was that of
Mr. Yasay?
MR. PEREZ. Yes, Sir.
MR. SALAZAR. Would you agree with me, Sir, that it is also entirely possible that Mr.
Yasay could just have been saying statements and that he had wanted you to hear or
get an impression of.
MR. PEREZ. I do not want to speculate on that, Sir. But I am sure it was the
President.
MR. SALAZAR. Mr. Yasay says in his affidavit, which is Annex "E" of the Articles of
Impeachment, that it was sometime in November 1999. And isn't it correct, Sir, that
your article came out on March 26, 2000 or four months thereafter?
MR. PEREZ. Yes, Sir.
REP. GONZALEZ. Mr. Chief Justice, we object.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Already answered.
REP. GONZALEZ. We move to strike out because the question to this witness refers
to Mr. Yasay's, in effect, statement. You cannot cross-examine a witness...
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. You can have it on re-direct if you want. The answer is
there already.
REP. GONZALEZ. Thank you.
MR. SALAZAR. Thank you, Mr. Chief Justice.
So, you would agree with me, Sir, that it took you four months to write this article after
the alleged phone call. Is that correct, Sir? Four months.
MR. PEREZ. Yes, Sir.
MR. SALAZAR. Were you aware, Sir, that Mr. Yasay appeared before the Committee
on Banks on January 19, 2000 to reveal the alleged phone call? Are you aware of
that, Sir?
MR. PEREZ. Yes, Sir.
MR. SALAZAR. Would it be correct to state, Sir, that even after Mr. Yasay came to
the Senate and make the allegation that a phone call was made to him that you still
did not write an article immediately after that Senate hearing, Sir?
MR. PEREZ. I ...
MR. SALAZAR. You did not write that article immediately after?
MR. PEREZ. In January?
MR. SALAZAR. January 19, 2000 Senate hearing.
MR. PEREZ. I was jobless, Sir.
MR. SALAZAR. You were jobless.
MR. PEREZ. Yes, Sir.
MR. SALAZAR. I see. How many articles, Sir, did you write on this alleged phone
call?
MR. PEREZ. This is the only one, Sir.
MR. SALAZAR. This is the only one. Would it be accurate for me, Sir, to state that in
your article, you even asked whether Mr. Yasay was honest, and I read and I quote:
Was PSE President Jose Luis Yulo at the other end of the line? Is he honest?
Then you went on to say, in quotation marks:
"I assure you, Emy. I am honest from head to foot. He told me over breakfast and I
will never change."
And then you went on to say:
Really? But why did his hair turn all black when he was serving a six-month
suspension, courtesy of Ombudsman Aniano Desierto?
Is this a correct reading of your column, Mr. Witness?
MR. PEREZ. Correct reading, but...yes.
MR. SALAZAR. Mr. Witness, during that same January 19, 2000 Senate hearing of
the Committee on Banks which, with the kind indulgence of the Court, we would like
to request that the Court take judicial notice of the transcript of stenographic notes.
And I refer to page 70, Your Honor, and I quote...
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Were copies of the transcript distributed to the
members of the Court?
MR. SALAZAR. None, Your Honor, but we would not be making an exhibit out of this.
We would just like, with the permission of the Court, to read from said transcript.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Would you be impeaching the witness on the basis of
that?
MR. SALAZAR. No, Sir.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. No.
MR. SALAZAR. No, Sir.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Since you were asking for a judicial notice, this
Committee on Banks refers to the Committee on Banks of the Philippine Senate or
the House of Representatives?
MR. SALAZAR. Of the Philippine Senate, Your Honor.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Make it of record.
MR. SALAZAR. Thank you, Your Honor.
On page 70, Mr. Witness, and I read to you, Mr. Yasay said after a statement by Mr.
Chairman, Senator Judge Roco. "Ya, but you stopped two days later."
Mr. Yasay said: "Yes, I would also like to add, Mr. Chairman, I know that I am under
oath and I will have to fully disclose everything that has transpired."
And then the Chairman said: "Even if you are not under oath, you should tell the
truth."
Mr. Witness, given this statement of Mr. Yasay...
REP. GONZALEZ. Mr. Chief Justice, I think before the question...
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Not yet, not yet. Let him finish the question first.
REP. GONZALEZ. Because the witness tends to answer even before I can make an
objection. So may we request that....
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. So the witness should not make an answer until the
question is finished and should take a little time because of the possibility of an
objection.
MR. PEREZ. I am sorry, Your Honor.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. The two counsels should not talk together at the same
time.
MR. SALAZAR. We apologize, Your Honor.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Finish your question.
MR. SALAZAR. Yes, Your Honor. With that statement, Mr. Witness, and your
statement in your column where you said, "Is he honest?" And then he assured you,
he says, "I assure you, Emy, I am honest from head to foot."
Would you agree with me, Sir, that one is likely to doubt a person who claims he is
compelled to tell the truth only because he is under oath and then claims that he is
honest from head to foot? Would you agree with me, Sir, that one is likely to doubt
the honesty of that person?
REP. GONZALEZ. We object, Mr. Chief Justice.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. On what ground?
REP. GONZALEZ. The counsel is trying to cross-examine on the basis of a testimony
of another person. That is not allowed under the rules for cross-examination, Mr.
Chief Justice. And secondly...
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Yes, the second ground.
REP. GONZALEZ. The second ground is, he is asking for the opinion of this witness
to make a conclusion as to whether a person is honest or not.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. The objection is sustained on both grounds.
MR. SALAZAR. Your Honor, may we just request, that the exhibit of the Prosecution,
Exhibit "QQQQQQQ-1" and Exhibit "Q-2" be likewise made as a common exhibit,
and we refer particularly, Mr. Chief Justice, to the paragraph where he has stated,
"Was PSE President Jose Luis Yulo at the other end of the line?" to be our exhibit.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Have it bracketed and marked as exhibit, what now?
Check from the Secretary what is the next exhibit for the Defense.
MR. SALAZAR. We request, Your Honor, that the original of the newspaper for that
day be used...
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Be the one marked. The request is granted. Have that
portion bracketed accordingly and then marked as Exhibit what, for the Prosecution?
Atty. Yap, do you have the list of the exhibits for the Defense? So what would be the
exhibit number now?
MR. YAP. Fifty-nine. "59".
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Louder please.
MR. YAP. Fifty-nine.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Would you announce it for the record, Atty. Salazar.
MR. SALAZAR. Exhibit "59" for the Defense, Your Honor.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. So let it be so marked as Exhibit "59".
MR. SALAZAR. We have no further cross-examination questions, Your Honor.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Any re-direct? Prosecutor Gonzalez, re-direct?
REP. GONZALEZ. No re-direct, Mr. Chief Justice.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. From the members of the Impeachment Court, who
would be? Santiago, Enrile, the Majority Leader, Drilon. Okay, there are four.
The honorable Senators-Judges Santiago, Enrile, Tatad, the Majority Leader, and
Drilon. So, we will call first and recognize the honorable Judge Santiago.
THE MAJORITY LEADER. I am the first...
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. You are number three in the list, Majority Leader.
THE MAJORITY LEADER. I thought I was the first one to raise my hand.
In any case, Mr. Chief Justice, there are suggestions that we take our first regular
break of 15 minutes.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. So we'll have the first break of 15 minutes. The witness
may go out to be accompanied by a Page, if he has some liquidity problem.
So 15 minutes break.
It was 4:10 p.m.
THE TRIAL WAS RESUMED AT 4:33 P.M.
THE SERGEANT AT ARMS. Please all rise for the arrival of the Honorable Senate
President-Judge Aquilino Q. Pimentel, Jr. and the Honorable Presiding Officer Chief
Justice Hilario G. Davide, Jr.
RESUMPTION OF TRIAL
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. The trial is now resumed.
The Chair would recognize the honorable Senator-Judge Miriam Defensor Santiago
for her questions on the witness.
SEN. DEFENSOR SANTIAGO. G. Testigo, kung ang isang tao ay may tinitingnan,
halimbawa may binabasa, at may pangalawang tao na lalapit at susubukan din at
titingnan o babasahin iyong bagay-bagay na hindi siya kinumbida noong unang tao,
iyang pangalawang tao ay tinatawag na "usyusero." At ang ginagawa niya ay
tinatawag na "pang-uusyoso."
Ngayon, dahil Ilongga ako, gusto ko lamang malaman sa iyo sa Tagalog, ano ang
tawag sa isang tao sa ganitong sitwasyon? May dalawang taong nag-uusap sa
telepono, may darating na pangatlong tao, tapos makikinig sa pag-uusap nitong
dalawa na hindi naman siya kinumbida ng alin sa dalawang ito. Ano ang tawag doon
sa Tagalog? Hindi ninyo alam?
MR. PEREZ. Hindi ko alam iyon, Your Honor.
SEN. DEFENSOR SANTIAGO. But in any event, what you were doing was the audio
equivalent of the visual "usyusero", isn't that so? You were eavesdropping on
something that was none of your business?
MR. PEREZ. It depends, Your Honor, on what "eavesdropping" means.
SEN. DEFENSOR SANTIAGO. All right. Ganito, bibigyan kita ng halimbawa. Habang
nag-uusap itong si G. Yasay at wika mo'y si Pangulong Estrada, kung totoo man
iyon, 'di hawak ni G. Yasay ang telephone receiver, idinikit mo ba ang tenga mo sa
receiver?
MR. PEREZ. Hindi po, Your Honor.
SEN. DEFENSOR SANTIAGO. Ahh...Isa na namang tungkol sa usapang tagalog.
Ang nakikita niya, ang nangyayari, ng sarili niyang mata ay tinatawag na "eye
witness". Ikaw naman, dahil kamo ay narinig mo ng sarili mong tenga, ano naman
ang tawag sa iyo, "ear witness" kaya?
MR. PEREZ. Hindi ko po alam, Your Honor.
SEN. DEFENSOR SANTIAGO. Okay. Well, let me now come to the second part of
my question. Ako ay naging Immigration Commissioner, naging Secretary of Agrarian
Reform, et cetera. In other words, I have also been head of executive agencies just
like Mr. Yasay. I remember that no matter how controversial I was and no matter how
many members of the media flock to my room whenever during the rare instances,
whenever I receive a telephone call from the President of the Republic, I would say to
the press: "Can you please excuse me?", which was my way of saying: "Can you
please leave the room?"
THE SENATE PRESIDENT. Your time is over, Madam.
SEN. DEFENSOR SANTIAGO. Hindi ba sinabi ni Mr. Yasay sa iyo 'yon? That is the
last question.
MR. PEREZ. Hindi naman po, Your Honor.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Thank you. The honorable Senator-Judge Enrile.
SEN. ENRILE. You know, Mr. Chief Justice, maikli lang ang tanong ko.
Gaano ba kayo kalayo kay Chairman Yasay noong nagsasalita siya o may kausap
siya sa telepono?
MR. PEREZ. Three or four feet, Your Honor.
SEN. ENRILE. Ha?
MR. PEREZ. Mga three or four feet lang po.
SEN. ENRILE. Naririnig ba ninyo 'yong nagsasalita doon sa kabilang linya?
MR. PEREZ. Hindi po, Your Honor.
SEN. ENRILE. Samakatuwid, hindi ninyo alam kung ano iyong sinabi noong nasa
kabilang linya noong sinagot siya ni Chairman Yasay: "Hindi po maaari iyan, Mr.
President." Hindi ninyo alam kung ano iyong sinagot niya?
MR. PEREZ. Ang sinabi po ng Presidente, Your Honor?
SEN. ENRILE. Hindi ninyo alam kung ano iyong tanong noong sa kabilang linya na
sinagot ni Chairman Yasay: "Hindi po maaari iyan, Mr. President."
MR. PEREZ. Hindi ko po iyan narinig, Your Honor.
SEN. ENRILE. Samakatuwid iyong sinabi na ibig ipa-clear ng Presidente si Dante
Tan ay nanggaling lamang sa dila at sa labi ni Chairman Yasay?
MR. PEREZ. Dahil, tinanong ko po, newsman's instinct lang po, ang sabi ko: "Ano ba
'yon?" So, iyon lang po.
SEN. ENRILE. Kaya nga.
MR. PEREZ. Opo, opo.
SEN. ENRILE. Galing lang kay Chairman Yasay?
MR. PEREZ. Opo, Your Honor.
SEN. ENRILE. Ngayon, sa pangalawang punto na gusto kong tanungin sa inyo.
Noong sinabi sa inyo, noong tanungin ninyo: "Ano ba 'yon?" Ibig mong malaman
kung ano iyong usapan na iyon, 'di ba?
MR. PEREZ. Opo, Your Honor.
SEN. ENRILE. At importante sa iyo iyon bilang manunulat?
MR. PEREZ. Opo, Your Honor.
SEN. ENRILE. Noong sinabi sa iyo iyong impormasyon na iyon, bakit hindi mo
isinulat kaagad? Bakit nag-antay ka ng matagal na panahon, alam mo na na
napakainit na istorya iyong bagay na iyon at Presidente na ng Pilipinas ang
tinutukoy? Pinakamataas na opisyal ng Pilipinas at lahat ng bagay na nangyayari dito
sa mundo natin na kasama ang Presidente ay nagiging headline? Bakit hindi mo
ginamit kaagad iyong impormasyon na iyon?
MR. PEREZ. Sa pagkakaaintindi ko po, Your Honor, ganito po iyon, eh. Noong magresign po ako doon sa Manila Times, noong October 31 po yata iyon, so November
wala na po akong hanapbuhay doon, eh. So, pa-research-research, pakontricontribute na lang po ako.
SEN. ENRILE. Bakit hindi mo sinabi sa kanila? Napakagandang istorya nito. Puwede
mo naman, kung wala kang hanapbuhay, puwede mong ipagbili iyong impormasyon
na iyon. Bakit hindi mo ginamit kaagad iyon?
MR. PEREZ. Hindi ko na po naisip iyon, Your Honor.
SEN. ENRILE. Salamat, salamat.
MR. PEREZ. Nagbakasyon na lang po ako, Sir.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Thank you.
MR. PEREZ. Thank you.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. The honorable Senator-Judge and Majority Leader
Tatad.
THE MAJORITY LEADER. Mr. Perez, how long did you cover Chairman Yasay?
MR. PEREZ. Since he was associate commissioner, I think, 1993 po, Your Honor.
THE MAJORITY LEADER. Itong istoryang ito nangyari noong pumuputok iyong
iskandalo sa BW?
MR. PEREZ. Tama po iyon, Your Honor.
THE MAJORITY LEADER. Ang sabi ninyo hindi ninyo narinig iyong kausap sa
kabila?
MR. PEREZ. Tama po iyon, Your Honor.
THE MAJORITY LEADER. Sigurado ba kayong may telephone call na nangyayari o
iyon ay pa-effect lang sa inyo o dino-drawing kayo ni Chairman Yasay?
MR. PEREZ. Mayroon pong telephone call, Your Honor.
THE MAJORITY LEADER. Papaano mo nalaman?
MR. PEREZ. Kasi po iyong pong Secretary sa labas, iyong staff po niya ang sinabi
po itinawag po sa parang intercom, may tawag daw po si ano...tapos inano na po
niya ako.
THE MAJORITY LEADER. Papano mo nalaman na iyon ay hindi parte ng akto para
i-impress iyong perdoyista na may nangyayaring istorya rito? Para sa iyo iyon.
Nandoon ka, nakikinig. Peryodista rin ako.
MR. PEREZ. Opo.
THE MAJORITY LEADER. Maraming ganoong sources. Niloloko iyong peryodista.
Ano ang katiyakan mo na hindi iyon ang nangyayari sa harap mo?
MR. PEREZ. Hindi ko po alam.
THE MAJORITY LEADER. Salamat po.
MR. PEREZ. Salamat po, Your Honor.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Thank you. The honorable Senator-Judge Drilon; After
that, the honorable Senator-Judge Flavier and Aquino-Oreta.
SEN. DRILON. Mr. Witness, who writes the head in your columns when you do your
columns?
MR. PEREZ. Ako po, Your Honor.
SEN. DRILON. But the headline in the front page have nothing to do with that?
MR. PEREZ. Wala po, Your Honor.
SEN. DRILON. Kanina po ay tinanong ka kung bakit sinabi mo na si Presidente
Estrada 'yong kausap ni Chairman Yasay. Hindi ba pagkatapos makipag-usap si
Yasay doon sa sinabi niyang, "Opo, Mr. President", pagkatapos ng conversation ay
inutusan niya ang kaniyang sekretarya na tawagan si Mr. Yulo ng Philippine Stock
Exchange? Hindi ba totoo iyan?
MR. PEREZ. Opo, Your Honor.
SEN. DRILON. So, hindi pupuwede na ang kausap ni Mr. Yasay noon, bago niya
utusan ang kaniyang sekretarya na tawagan si Mr. Yulo, ay si Mr. Yulo din? Walang
logic iyon, hindi ba?
MR. PEREZ. Tama po, Your Honor.
SEN. DRILON. Kaya ikaw ay nakasisiguro na ang kaniyang kausap ay si Pangulong
Estrada?
MR. PEREZ. Opo, Your Honor.
SEN. DRILON. Now, you may have answered this, and maybe I didn't hear it, but,
why did it take you four months to write that article?
MR. PEREZ. As I said, I have resigned already from Manila Times, then owned both
by the group of Mr. Mark Jimenez, if I understand. Mr. Mark Jimenez bought it from
the previous owners, Mr. Gokongwei. I was also employed there and I was rehired.
Then, I resigned October 31.
SEN. DRILON. So, you were saying that you had no opportunity to write it again until
the time that you wrote it. Is that correct?
MR. PEREZ. Tama po iyon, Your Honor.
SEN. DRILON. Now, what did you exactly mean by the question you raised, "Is he
honest?" referring to Chairman Yasay?
MR. PEREZ. I was only referring to the last phrase, "Bakit nagbago iyong buhok
ninyo, Sir?" Your Honor.
SEN. DRILON. When his hair...
MR. PEREZ. Turned black when it was white when I used to see him at the SEC,
Your Honor.
SEN. DRILON. Are you implying that Mr. Yasay dyed his hair?
MR. PEREZ. Yes, Your Honor.
SEN. DRILON. Now, your statement, "Is he honest?" is not a judgment on the
integrity of Mr. Yasay.
MR. PEREZ. No, Your Honor.
SEN. DRILON. Thank you, Mr. Chief Justice.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. The honorable Senator-Judge Flavier.
SEN. FLAVIER. Just a few small questions, Mr. Chief Justice.
Una, regarding that story on the conversation between Yasay and the President. Did
Mr. Yasay ask you not to write about it?
MR. PEREZ. No, Your Honor.
SEN. FLAVIER. When finally you wrote it, did Mr. Yasay ask you to write about it?
MR. PEREZ. No, Your Honor.
SEN. FLAVIER. Thank you, Mr. Chief Justice.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Thank you. The honorable Senator-Judge AquinoOreta.
SEN. ORETA. G. Witness, dalawa lamang pong tanong.
Madalas ho ba kayo sa SEC?
MR. PEREZ. Madalas po, Your Honor.
SEN. ORETA. Bakit ho kayo madalas doon?
MR. PEREZ. Unang-una po, matagal na rin po akong nagko-cover ng SEC, since
1986 po. Pangalawa po, ang asawa ko ay dating doon nagtatrabaho, doon po sa
SEC.
SEN. ORETA. Hanggang kailan po ba siya sa SEC?
MR. PEREZ. Sino po?
SEN. ORETA. Iyong asawa po ninyo.
MR. PEREZ. Umalis po siya nitong December. Kasama po siya sa retirement.
SEN. ORETA. Nang umalis kaya si Mr. Yasay ay saka umalis na rin ang asawa
ninyo?
MR. PEREZ. Hindi po.
SEN. ORETA. Pero ang asawa ninyo ay under kay Mr. Yasay noong SEC chairman
si Mr. Yasay?
MR. PEREZ. Not directly, Your Honor. She belongs to the Brokers and Exchanges
Department, Your Honor.
SEN. ORETA. I see. Maraming salamat po, Mr. Witness.
MR. PEREZ. Thank you, Your Honor.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Yes. Finally, the honorable Judge Guingona and then
later, the honorable Senator-Judge Revilla.
SEN. GUINGONA. Mr. Witness, noong sinabi na mayroong telephone call, nadinig
mo iyon?
MR. PEREZ. Hindi po kasi doon lang po sa labas 'yong secretary, Your Honor.
SEN. GUINGONA. Pero sa intercom?
MR. PEREZ. Sa intercom, hindi po naririnig masyado.
SEN. GUINGONA. Ano ang nadinig mo?
MR. PEREZ. Wala, basta inangat lang ho, tapos sinagot po ni Chairman Yasay po.
SEN. GUINGONA. All right. Pagkatapos noong telephone call, tinanong mo si Mr.
Yasay bilang newspaperman kung sino ang tumawag?
MR. PEREZ. Opo, Your Honor.
SEN. GUINGONA. At ano'ng sagot ni Mr. Yasay?
MR. PEREZ. Sabi po "Si Presidente yon, tapos gusto niya, i-clear ko si Dante Tan"
po, Your Honor.
SEN. GUINGONA. At bago siya makipag-usap sa telepono, sinabi na niya, "Ito ay
call galing kay--sa Presidente?
MR. PEREZ. Sinabi po niya, "O, this is the President."
SEN. GUINGONA. Sabi niya sa iyo?
MR. PEREZ. Opo noong a-angatin po niya, Sir.
SEN. GUINGONA. E, ito ba'y karaniwang nangyayari sa kagaya mo, newspaperman
na pumupunta ka roon at mayroong calls si Mr. Yasay from the President or first time
nangyari sa iyo?
MR. PEREZ. Noon lang po nangyari sa akin, Your Honor, na naka-witness po ako ng
ganoon.
SEN. GUINGONA. At yuong pagtawag niya kay Secretary--ay kay President...sa
Stock Exchange, Jose Luis Yulo, siya ang nag-utos na tawagan si Mr. Yulo?
MR. PEREZ. Opo, Your Honor.
SEN. GUINGONA. At pagkatapos noon, na-verify mo rin na ang kausap niya si Mr.
Yulo?
MR. PEREZ. Opo, Your Honor.
SEN. GUINGONA. Thank you, Mr. Chief Justice.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. The honorable Senator-Judge Revilla.
SEN. REVILLA. Thank you, Mr. Chief Justice.
Mr. Perez, ilang buwan kang nawalan ng trabaho?
MR. PEREZ. Po?
SEN. REVILLA. Ilang buwan na wala kang trabaho?
MR. PEREZ. Siguro, noong mag-resign po ako sa Manila Times on
November....medyo nagku-column din ako paminsan-minsan sa Manila Times on
November, December, January. February nag-resume na ho ako, Your Honor, sa
Tribune.
SEN. REVILLA. Nang mag-resume ka ng February, doon mo naisip isulat iyung
tungkol kay Mr. Yasay, tama ba iyon?
MR. PEREZ. Hindi. Noong isulat ko po iyon Marso na po, Your Honor.
SEN. REVILLA. Binayaran ka ba ni Mr. Yasay? Magkano ang binayad sa iyo?
MR. PEREZ. No, Your Honor.
SEN. REVILLA. Hindi, matagal kang walang trabaho, 'di ba?
MR. PEREZ. No. May I explain, Your Honor, if the Presiding...if Your Honor, would
permit me.
SEN. REVILLA. Okey, go ahead.
MR. PEREZ. My wife and I never live beyond our means. Even if I lost my job for six
months, we can eat three times a day, I assure you, Your Honor.
SEN. REVILLA. Hindi. Ang ipinagtataka ko, sa ilang buwan na wala kang trabaho,
saka mo lamang isinulat iyung tungkol kay Mr. Yasay sa pag-uusap niya supposedto-be kay Presidente Erap.
MR. PEREZ. Kasi po noon lang po ako nagkaroon ng pagkakataon din po sa
Tribune, Your Honor.
SEN. REVILLA. Dahil kung tutuusin mo, luma na iyung estorya mong iyon, e. Bakit
mo pa isinulat samantalang iyon ay, para sa akin, luma na iyon, e. Hindi na first iyon.
After several months, saka mo isinulat. 'Di luma na iyon? Stale na iyon, stale na.
MR. PEREZ. Stale na nga po para sa inyo, Your Honor, pero a newsman's instinct as
a columnist, Your Honor, pangiliti lang naman po minsan iyon sa isang government
official na paalis na sa kanyang posisyon, Your Honor.
SEN. REVILLA. Ah, sige, salamat po, Mr. Perez.
MR. PEREZ. Marami pong salamat, Your Honor.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. There being no other questions on the witness, the
witness is now excused.
Next witness for the Prosecution.
REP. GONZALEZ. Mr. Chief Justice, the next witness for the Prosecution is
Secretary Edgardo Espiritu.
MR. DAZA. Mr. Chief Justice.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Yes, Atty. Daza.
MR. DAZA. What has happened to the understanding since yesterday that Mr. Yasay
would be presented.
REP. GONZALEZ. Your Honor, the reason for this is the fact that while we have, in
our program, really intended that Mr. Yasay will be presented today, certain
developments have taken place last night which impels us to present Secretary
Espiritu as soon as possible,
Mr. Secretary, for his own safety.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Pursuant to the agreement, did you submit the name of
this witness to the Defense?
REP. GONZALEZ. Mr. Chief Justice, the witness' name has been the subject of a
subpoena which has been approved...
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. And a copy of the notice was given?
REP. GONZALEZ. Yes, Your Honor. This has been furnished already.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Okay then.
REP. GONZALEZ. The witness is here at the holding room.
MR. DAZA. Well, there might have been a request…there might have been … I don't
know if there was a request for a subpoena…
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. There was a request for a subpoena.
MR. DAZA. If there was a request for subpoena..
REP. GONZALEZ. Which was approved.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. And it was issued, too. I think notice of this request was
furnished your office-MR. DAZA. In fact, the...
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. --and as a matter of fact, probably, we do now require
as a matter of service of copies of subpoenas signed by the Presiding Officer to the
parties themselves.
REP. GONZALEZ. Yes, Your Honor. And as a matter of fact, in that subpoena….
MR. DAZA. I am informed by my panel here that we have not received a copy of the
subpoena as issued.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Anyway, what about the request for the issuance of a
subpoena?
REP. GONZALEZ. They have received.
MR. DAZA. Yes, there was. We received a copy of the request.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. There was. And the date was indicated as to whenMR. GONZALEZ. Today, Your Honor.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. --he is to testify?
REP. GONZALEZ. Today, Your Honor.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. In the request?
REP. GONZALEZ. Yes, Your Honor.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. That is correct.
THE MAJORITY LEADER. Mr. Chief Justice.
MR. GONZALEZ. Counsel to present the witness, Mr. Chief Justice, is Private
Prosecutor Hernando Perez, assisted by Atty. Maria Vienco, under my control and
supervision.
THE MAJORITY LEADER. Mr. Chief Justice.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. The Majority Leader.
THE MAJORITY LEADER. Just an inquiry for the Court. Under what article is this
witness being presented?
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. This is still Article 3.
REP. GONZALEZ. Under Article 3, Your Honor.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Still Article 3.
THE MAJORITY LEADER. Another query, Mr. Chief Justice. Under our Rules, we
sequester witnesses prior to their appearance here. Mr. Espiritu had been appearing
here regularly prior to this appearance. What would be the effect of that?
REP. GONZALEZ But that was… if Your Honor please.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Just wait for a little while, Mr. Prosecutor Gonzalez.
There was a query addressed to the Chair and the Chair would direct it to the
Prosecution.
REP. GONZALEZ. Your Honor, please.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Comment on the observation of the Senator-Judge
Majority Leader Tatad.
REP. GONZALEZ. Yes, Your Honor. Mr. Espiritu for a few times had appeared at the
early stages of the proceedings but not when the subject was with reference to
Articles 1 and 2. And I don't believe that he has ever been here on this matter of
Article 3, Your Honor. Besides, I think…
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. You mean you really admit and you agreed with the
observation of the honorable Senate…rather, Majority Leader that in many trials here
involving probably the previous articles, this witness, former Secretary Espiritu, had
been attending the trials?
REP. GONZALEZ. Not many, Your Honor. A few of the hearings and at that time,
Your Honor, we do not even know that Secretary Espiritu will be a witness, neither
did he know that he will be a witness.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Make all these observations of record and probably in
the course of the cross-examination, some of these matters will be taken up.
REP. GONZALEZ. Thank you, Mr. Chief Justice. May I make a slight correction. The
assisting counsel …
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Who would be the assisting counsel?
REP. GONZALEZ. The assisting counsel will be Atty. Pamela Yabut.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Yap?
REP. GONZALEZ. Yabut, Your Honor.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Yabut.
REP. GONZALEZ. Both under my direct control and supervision.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. And for the Defense, who would be the crossexamining…?
MR. DAZA. For the Defense, I shall be the cross-examining counsel and I shall be
assisted by Atty. Jose Flaminiano.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Call the witness now.
REP. GONZALEZ. May we call the witness.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Where is Atty. Espiritu? (Pause)
THE SENATE SECRETARY. Kindly raise your right hand and put your left hand on
the Holy Bible and answer me.
You, EDGARDO ESPIRITU, do swear that the evidence you shall give in the case
now pending between the Philippines and Joseph Ejercito Estrada, President of the
Philippines, shall be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. So help you
God.
MR. ESPIRITU. I do.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Take your seat, Mr. Witness.
MR. PEREZ. With the permission of the honorable Chief Justice and the honorable
Senator-Judges.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. You may now proceed, Atty. Perez.
MR. PEREZ. Thank you.
Will you please state your name, age, and other personal circumstances ?
MR. ESPIRITU. Your Honor, I'm Edgardo Bautista Espiritu of Imus, Cavite, now
residing in Ritz Tower, Makati, of legal age, married, formerly Secretary of Finance
and at present Chairman of the Alay sa Kawal Foundation.
MR. PEREZ. Your Honor, Honorable Chief Justice, and Senator-Judges, this witness
is being presented to show, first, that he was Secretary of Finance of President
Joseph Ejercito Estrada. Second, he knows Dante Tan, Mark Jimenez concerning-and BW Resources. Third, when there was a conflict between Dante Tan and Mark
Jimenez concerning BW Resources, upon instructions of the President, Dante Tan
bought out Mark Jimenez.
Number four, when the stocks of BW Resources went up, President Joseph Ejercito
Estrada excitedly admitted that he earned a lot of money from BW Resources.
Fifth, sometime in October 1999, the Philippine Stock Exchange had liquidity problem
due to insider trading and stock manipulation of BW Resources, as a result of which
the officials of the Philippine Stock Exchange sought assistance from the
government.
Number six, Dante Tan was called by the witness to explain, whereupon said Dante
Tan made an admission against his own interest by admitting that part of his shares
in BW Resources were actually and, in fact, owned by President Joseph Ejercito
Estrada, confirming the earlier assertion of the President. And that the President
further admitted his financial interest in BW Resources.
Number seven, as part of his duties as Finance Secretary, he held meetings with
government financial institutions and including the Philippine National Bank.
Number eight, pursuant to a memorandum of the President, all loans of GFIs
amounting to 50 million or more must be approved by the President, which was later
amended to a mere reportorial requirement, although verbal approval of the said
transaction was sought.
Number nine, PNB granted questionable P600 million loan to BW Resources when
BW Resources was losing money and did not have sufficient collateral, and the loan
was granted when PNB was still under the control of the government in violation of
the standards for granting loans.
Number ten, at the time the said loan was granted, the directors and principal officers
of PNB were nominees of the President, that is President Joseph Ejercito Estrada;
Number eleven, the said loan was a behest loan granted upon the instruction of the
President, who approved the same.
On January 5, 2000, the witness resigned from the Cabinet and verbally explained to
the President the reasons for his resignation;
And number thirteen, that the President tried to influence him in not testifying in this
Impeachment Trial.
May I proceed, Your Honor?
MR. DAZA. Mr. Chief Justice.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Atty. Daza.
MR. DAZA. In view of the stated offer made by the Prosecutor, insofar as those
matters stated in the offer that are not included in the Impeachment Complaint, we
would like to, at this time, state our objection to any evidence either to this witness or
any other witness bearing on such extraneous matters. I note, Mr. Chief Justice, that
mention was made, for instance, of a PNB loan, memorandum regarding approval of
transactions over P50 million and other matters. These are not included in the
Impeachment Complaint.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Let's see how these pieces may be developed and then
you can make the proper objection once these are disclosed and to your view it may
be immaterial or irrelevant. But as to the offer itself, that is merely an offer, a
manifestation of an offer, and your observation thereon are on record already.
MR. PEREZ. May I proceed, Your Honor?
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. You may proceed.
MR. PEREZ. With the permission of the honorable Chief Justice and the honorable
Senator-Judges.
Sinabi ninyo, G. Testigo, na kayo ay dating finance secretary ni Pangulong Estrada.
Kailan ninyo inokupahan itong posisyong ito?
MR. ESPIRITU. Your Honor, I was Secretary of Finance from June 30, 1998, when
we took our oath, and I resigned effective January 5 of the year 2000.
MR. PEREZ. Kilala ba ninyo si Dante Tan?
MR. ESPIRITU. Magkakilala po kami. Sapagkat kami po ay nagkasama noong
panahon ng kampanya, noong mag-eleksyon for 1998. Kilala ko na po siya since
1997, dahil nga kami ay nagkasama nang matagal, lalung-lalo na doon sa safehouse
nang kami ay nangangampanya.
MR. PEREZ. Ano po iyong ibig ninyong sabihin na nagkasama na kayo sa safehouse
noong kayo ay nagkakampanya?
MR. ESPIRITU. Kami po ay parehong involved sa kampanya ni Pangulong Erap
Estrada at halos araw-araw ay nagkikita kami noong panahon na iyon, at ang aming
trabaho ay halos nagkakapareho sapagkat ako ay involved sa fund raising, in
addition to my other assignment during the campaign.
MR. PEREZ. Eh, si Dante Tan naman po, ano naman ang kanIyang papel doon sa
kampanya?
MR. ESPIRITU. Siya po ay involved din sa mga fund raising activities, at kung anuano pong mga assignments ang ibinibigay sa kaniya sapagkat magkalapit naman sila
ng Pangulong Estrada.
MR. PEREZ. Ano po ang naging batayan ng inyong sinabing "magkalapit naman sila
ni Pangulong Estrada"?
MR. ESPIRITU. Nakikita ko po namang parati silang nag-uusap noong panahong
iyon na nangangampanya kami. At nabanggit pa ho sa akin ni Dante na siya ay
dating nagtrabaho sa Metropolitan Bank, para ma-remind sa akin na nagkasama
kami dati sa Metropolitan Bank where
I worked for 21 years.
MR. PEREZ. Ito naman pong BW Resources, kilala ba ninyo itong kumpanyang ito?
MR. ESPIRITU. Opo, Your Honor.
MR. PEREZ. Papaano ninyo nakilala itong kumpanyang ito?
MR. ESPIRITU. Noong ako po ay nasa posisyon na as Secretary of Finance, ako
po'y nilapitan ni Dante Tan para siya ay tulungan sa dalawang bagay: Unang-una po
ay pinakiusapan niya ako na puwedeng tulungan siyang makausap si Mr. Benitez na
siyang may-ari noong isang bingo operations para mag-merge iyong operation ng
bingo n'ya at ng kay Benitez; pangalawa po ay nang lumapit siya sa akin at
napagsabihan daw siya na kausapin ako tungkol sa desire ng kanilang grupo na
maka-acquire ng isang listed company. Ang ibig ko pong sabihin noon ay para
magkaroon ng backlisting ng kompanyang iyan na hindi registered at that time.
MR PEREZ. Ano naman po ang nangyari doon sa hangarin ninyo na pinahayag sa
inyo ni Dante Tan?
MR. DAZA. Objection, Your Honor.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. On what ground?
MR. DAZA. This is not...the matter of this merger, et cetera on
bingo is not alleged in the impeachment complaint.
MR PEREZ. Your Honor, may I say something.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Yes.
MR PEREZ. We are talking about BW Resources. We're just
presenting the background, how it was that BW Resources came into being. And the
witness is showing familiarity with BW Resources, Your Honor. Preliminary, Your
Honor.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Objection is overruled. The witness may answer if it has
something to do with BW Resources.
MR PEREZ. Uulitin ko po 'yong aking katanungan. Ano naman po ang nangyari doon
sa hangarin ni Dante Tan na pinahayag sa inyo tungkol dito sa kaniyang ninanais na
magkaroon ng merger o dili kaya'y backlisting sa Stock Exchange?
MR. ESPIRITU. Iyon pong merger na pino-propose n'ya na humihingi siya ng tulong
na kausapin si Mr. Benitez ay hindi po nag-materialize, hindi natuloy. Iyon pong
acquisition ng isang kompanya that is listed, iyon po ang natuloy. At after that po ay
nagkaroon pa ng isang pagkakataon na ako'y kinausap ni Dante Tan.
MR. DAZA. May we request the Prosecutor to propound questions -MR PEREZ. I did, Your Honor.
MR. DAZA. -- because the witness is a lawyer and I believe that he should be asked
questions so that we could opportunely object to particular questions when asked, if
they are objectionable.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Yes. I think that would be addressed more to the
witness.
The witness will just answer the questions and do not make
stories afterwards. You just wait for the question .
MR PEREZ. O, sige, po. Ito pong sinasabi ninyong korporasyong ito, nalalaman po
ninyo kung ano ang pangalan ng korporasyong ito?
MR. ESPIRITU. Hindi ko po alam. Kung ano iyong na-acquire niyang corporation.
MR PEREZ. Noon pong nakuha na, ano po ang naging pangalan nito?
MR. ESPIRITU. Ito po ang naging BW Resources pa rin po.
MR PEREZ. Ito po namang si G. Mark Jimenez, kilala po ba ninyo ito?
MR. ESPIRITU. Kilala ko po, nagkasama rin po kami noong kampanya when he
joined the campaign two months before the election.
MR PEREZ. Alin pong kampanya iyon, iyong inyong tinutukoy?
MR. ESPIRITU. Iyon pong kampanya noong halalan, noong 1998 para sa eleksiyon
ng pangulo ng ating bansa.
MR PEREZ. Teka nga muna. Hindi ko po naliwanag sa inyo. Kanino ba kayo, saan
ba kayong panig nagkakampanya noong panahong iyon, kayo nila Dante Tan, kayo
at si Mark Jimenez?
MR. DAZA. Objection. Immaterial and irrelevant.
MR PEREZ. Material, Your Honor. This is about betrayal...
MR. DAZA. I suppose the Prosecutor will say that this is again preliminary.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Overruled. The witness may answer.
MR. ESPIRITU. From 1992, I have already joined the campaign as well as the plan
to run for President of President Estrada.
MR PEREZ. Ito po namang si Mark Jimenez, nalalaman ba ninyo kung siya'y kakilala
naman ng ating Pangulo?
MR. ESPIRITU. Siya po ay pumupunta rin noon doon sa safehouse. Nakikita ko po
silang nag-uusap at ako rin po'y kinakausap n'ya, at magkakilala po kaming lahat
doon.
MR PEREZ. Nalalaman ba ninyo kung nagkaroon ng ugnayan o papel si Gng. Mark
Jimenez dito sa BW Resources?
MR. DAZA. Same objection, Your Honor.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. On what ground?
MR. DAZA. Mr. Mark Jimenez is not even named in the impeachment complaint nor
in any of the supporting annexes of impeachment complaint.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Pursuant to the order that was dictated by the Presiding
Officer. In relation to your objections on the issuance of subpoena duces tecum on
certain parties, the ruling of the Chair was that, anything related to manipulation of
stocks in BMW would be admissible and relevant...BW rather. What did I say?
VOICE. BMW.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. BW Resources, because these are the factum probans,
part of the factum probans.
MR. PEREZ. Kaya po ba ninyong sagutin iyong katanungan o gusto ninyong ulitin
ko?
MR. ESPIRITU. Ah, isang araw po ay dumating sa akin si Dante Tan at medyo
worried at concerned dahil nga po after ma-leased iyong BW, hindi raw po niya
nalalaman, na bigla na lang naging malaking stockholder si Mark Jimenez sa BW.
And he was able to acquire,
I understand, almost 30 percent of BW Resources.
MR. PEREZ. At ano ang nangyari sa control ng BW Resources?
MR. ESPIRITU. Eh, mukha pong nangibabaw si Mark Jimenez pagkat nag-utos po
ang Pangulo kay Dante Tan na i-turn over ang management ng BW Resources kay
Mark Jimenez.
MR. PEREZ. At pagkatapos nito, ano ang nangyari naman doon sa conflict na ito na
lumalabas sa pagitan ni Dante Tan at ni Mark Jimenez?
MR. DAZA. Objection, no basis and incompetent. There has not been any showing
that he is competent to testify on this-on these points that, Your Honor, he is asking
the questions.
MR. PEREZ. If the witness knows.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Neither is there any showing that he is incompetent. So,
I think the witness should answer the question.
MR. ESPIRITU. Kaya nga po nagpunta sa akin si Dante, eh, humihingi ng tulong
dahil nga mukhang siya'y natanggal sa pagma-manage ng BW. Sinabi ko ho sa
kaniya, "Eh, papaano naman kitang matutulungan diyan, eh, ang nagdesisyon diyan
ay iyong partner mo. Siguro naman dapat pag-usapan n'yo iyan, hindi ako
makakatulong sa iyo."
MR. PEREZ. Sino iyong "partner mo" na tinutukoy mo noong sabihan mo ng ganoon
si Dante Tan?
MR. ESPIRITU. Eh, in-admit po niya sa akin na ang ating Pangulong Estrada ang
kanyang kasama dito sa BW Resources.
MR. PEREZ. Kasama? Ano po ang ibig sabihin ng "kasama", partner?
MR. ESPIRITU. Partner po.
MR. PEREZ. Ngayon, ano po ang nangyari dito sa parang alitan na ito po?
MR. ESPIRITU. Eh, dumating ho iyong panahon na mukhang sa pag-aaway po ni
Mark at Dante, eh, nabago ang situwasyon sa BW sapagkat inutusan daw po siya ni
Presidente na bayaran si Mark Jimenez at ang pagkakasabi pa sa akin ni Dante, eh,
150 million ang ipinabayad sa kanya para mabalik uli ang ownership/control kay
Dante.
MR. DAZA. Move to strike the answer because it's hearsay. The witness says "Sabi
daw", which is hearsay.
MR. PEREZ. Your Honor, we ask-THE PRESIDING OFFICER. You may reply.
MR. PEREZ. --that it be allowed to remain on record as part of the narration of the
witness.
MR. DAZA. But not proof of the fact as stated in the answer.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. But not... Only as to the tenor of the conversation but
not as to proof of the statements supposedly quoted from another source.
MR. PEREZ. That is correct, Your Honor.
Noong buwan ng Mayo or Hunyo, noong nakakaraang taon, 1999, nalalaman ba
ninyo kung ano ang nangyari doon sa bentahan ng shares ng BW Resources?
MR. ESPIRITU. Alam ko pong nagkaroon ng malaking pagtaas ang presyo ng BW
Resources, Your Honor.
MR. PEREZ. At nagkaroon ba kayo ng pagkakataon na makausap si Pangulong
Joseph Ejercito Estrada tungkol dito?
MR. DAZA. Objection, leading.
MR. PEREZ. It's leading, Your Honor, it doesn't mean that...
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. The objection is sustained. Ask another question.
MR. PEREZ. All right, Your Honor.
Noong tumaas itong shares na ito, ano'ng ginawa ninyo?
MR. ESPIRITU. Nagkaroon po ako ng pagkakataon na magkaroon ng miting sa
Mahal na Pangulong "Erap" Estrada, kaming dalawa po lang ang nag-uusap sa
kaniyang kuwarto at napag-usapan po namin itong pagtaas ng mga stocks sa stock
market.
MR. PEREZ. At ano ang napag-usapan ninyong dalawa?
MR. ESPIRITU. Ay medyo po excited siya na binanggit niya sa akin, "Ed, malaki na
ang kinikita ko dito sa BW Resources."
MR. PEREZ. Noong sinabi mong…Sinabi niya…
MR. DAZA. Mr. Chief Justice.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Atty. Daza.
MR. DAZA. We are objecting to this line of questioning because if the Court will take
note, insofar as the BW shares is concerned, what is specified in the Impeachment
Complaint, and I'd like to quote, is simply quote:
In or about November 1999, President Estrada called Chairman Yasay of the
Securities and Exchange Commission to intercede for BW claiming that its principal
and majority stockholder, Dante Tan, was not a manipulator but a victim of
transactions which resulted in the rise and fall of BW shares, as shown by the
affidavit of former Securities and Exchange Commission, Perfecto Yasay Jr., which is
hereto attached as Annex "E." The President called Chairman Yasay not once but
five times. The act of the President violated his solemn Oath of Office to execute the
law. He obstructed justice because he intervened with the duties of a public servant
who was investigating transactions as a quasi judicial officer pursuant to the mandate
of the law.
There is nothing in this complaint which touches even peripherally or tangentially on
this allegation or this claim that the President owns shares of stock in BW or that he
made some profit on it. This is not in the Impeachment Complaint, and we vigorously
object to the last question and to the line of questioning by the Prosecutor.
MR. PEREZ. May I respond, Your Honor?
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. You respond.
MR. PEREZ. It is fundamental, Your Honor, that a Complaint must alleged ultimate
facts. There is no Complaint that is required to allege evidentiary matters. So the
Complaint alleged ultimate facts. The Complaint alleged betrayal of public trust
involving BW Resources. The Complaint alleged unusual interest on the part of the
President in BW Resources. And the witness is explaining why is there such an
unusual interest.
Further, Your Honor, on Page 8 of the Complaint, and I quote, which was
conveniently omitted by the distinguished colleague from Congress, and I quote:
President Estrada betrayed the public trust and his Oath of Office when he disobeyed
the strict mandate of the Constitution that he sternly avoid conflict of interests in the
conduct of his office .
In this case, Your Honor, we are showing that the President betrayed public trust,
that he violated his Oath of Office, and that he engaged in conflict of interest because
the Chief Executive should not
participate in a company that has a franchise with the government and it is a violation
of his Oath of Office.
MR. DAZA. Well, Mr. Chief Justice.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Atty. Daza.
MR. DAZA. The ultimate facts are contained in Impeachment Complaint, as admitted
by the Prosecutor. And this…In this…
MR. PEREZ. Your Honor, I was hoping…
MR. DAZA. May I…I did not interrupt Prosecutor. May I…
MR. PEREZ. I was hoping I will be allowed to finish my argument, Your Honor.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Pardon.
MR. DAZA. No, I have the floor.
MR. PEREZ. I was hoping I will be allowed by distinguished compañero to finish my
argument but he would not want me to finish.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Let him finish, Atty. Daza.
MR. DAZA. Please do.
MR. PEREZ. President Estrada, as alleged in the Complaint, Your Honor, on Page 7,
and I quote:
President Estrada has oftened proclaimed that his main program is to uplift the poor
but record show that during his tenure as President, he focused mainly in the
participation in business for himself, his family and friends.
And then on Page 10, Your Honor, the Complaint alleged, and I quote:
President Estrada betrayed public trust when he wantonly violated his own
pronouncement during his inaugural speech when he solemnly declared 'Sa aking
administrasyon, walang kamag-anak, walang kumpadre, walang kaibigan.'
And another, Your Honor, on page 11 of the Complaint...no, Your Honor, I have
already cited that.
Well, those are the pertinent allegations of the Complaint that would show that this
question or this subject is very material. And aside from that, Your Honor, we are
talking of BW Resources, we are talking of intervention, or at least, alleged
intervention, by the President in BW Resources. Why? The people are asking "Why?"
And we are showing why, Your Honor. This "why" is very material.
Thank you.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Atty. Daza.
MR. DAZA. Mr. Chief Justice, we must go back to December 7 last year, when there
was a conference among counsels. And, as recorded by the report coming out of that
conference, it was agreed between the Prosecution and the Defense that the issue in
Article 3 will be: Whether the acts alleged therein--meaning the Impeachment
Complaint if proven---constitute betrayal of trust. Now, the facts or the acts alleged in
the Complaint do not include any allegations that the President had bought shares or
had made profits from the BW shares. Now, we have to remember, Mr. Chief Justice,
that the President entered a plea of not guilty to the facts as alleged in the Complaint.
And also that when this Complaint was before the House, it was signed and sworn to
individually by the 77 congressmen, swearing to the facts as alleged in the
Complaint. Now, these facts, whether they are ultimate or evidentiary as claimed by
the Prosecutor, are not in the Complaint. That is the bottom line.
The Prosecutor has been quite selective in reading portions of the Complaint. The
portion that he read about the President proclaiming program to uplift the poor and
records that he focused in business for himself, in the same paragraph, and the
paragraph should be read as a whole, refers to alleged 66 corporate records and 31
companies which are enumerated in Annexes "LL-1" and "LL-2" thereof. The
annexes, as manifested by the Prosecution, should be read with the Impeachment
Complaint. BW Resources is not one of them. Clearly, whether the Prosecution says
that these facts they are trying to prove, be they ultimate or evidentiary, are simply
immaterial and irrelevant.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Nothing else?
MR. PEREZ. Nothing else, Your Honor.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Article 3 of the Articles of Impeachment is very clear-Betrayal of Public Trust. There are ultimate facts enumerated thereunder. And if the
gentleman still remember, when there was this attempt to quash the issuance of
subpoena duces tecum for the production of certain documents related to the BW
shares, the Motion to Quash was basically founded on a claim that these documents
and the testimony of the witnesses called to testify, like Mr. Yasay, Almadro, Mary
Anne, Corpuz, would be completely impertinent, irrelevant, and immaterial to the
factum probandum.
In the order that was issued by the Presiding Officer in resolving this Motion to
Quash, including the Motion to Quash, the subpoena duces tecum issued to the BIR,
the Presiding Officer took note of what is to be proved or what is the ultimate fact to
be proved-the factum probandum. And among the factum probandum to be
established were:
1. Manipulation of BM Resources shares.
MR. PEREZ. BW, Your Honor. BW, Your Honor.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. BW, BW. Second, that the majority stockholder or
principal stockholder of the BW Resources is one Dante Tan. Third, that this Dante
Tan is claimed to be a presidential crony. Fourth, that there was an investigation
conducted and the President intervened for Dante Tan. These are facts to be
established by evidentiary matters. And that was the reason why the Court issued a
denial.
The matter at issue now is claimed to be...to have some relevance to the matter of
the presidential intervention, meaning to say, the reason therefore why the President
should intervene and give special benefit assuming that indeed Dante Tan is a crony
and special benefit had to be granted.
The Chair understands it from the proposed testimony of the witness that the
prosecution will now establish the reason or the justification why there is such an
intervention, why the President went so far as to make an intervention. I think that is
the thrust of the testimony of the witness. If that is so, it may be a collateral matter,
but with relevance, with some logical connection to what is being established as
closeness and intervention.
Now, under Section 2 of Rule 132, collateral matters would even be allowed for as
long as there is some logical connection of these matters to the fact in issue.
So, at this point, the Chair will have to rule that the objection is not well-taken and the
witness may answer.
MR. DAZA. Mr. Chief Justice, we are not going to ask for a reconsideration of the
ruling, but would only want to call the attention... to call attention to the fact that this,
the evidence, if there will be such evidence in regard to ownership of the President of
shares or transactions by the President on shares would only be material and
relevant to the issue of the alleged intervention as charged in the Impeachment
Complaint.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. I think that is the reason given by them, as, at this point,
it seems the idea is just to support that kind of presidential intervention because of
the President's own interest in the matter. That is the thinking of the Presiding Officer.
MR. DAZA. In order not to disrupt the questioning by the Prosecutor, Mr. Chief
Justice, having already stated our opposition or objection on grounds of materiality
and relevancy, I would like to enter a continuing objection to all questions that would
tend, in any manner, to prove some allegation or charge not in the complaint. In other
words, where the thrust of the question is to prove any wrongdoing outside of the
alleged intervention, then we have a continuing objection on grounds of materiality
and relevancy.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. The continuing objection is properly recorded. And as a
matter of fact, not only that that remains, that would remain on record, at any given
time, you can make additional objections. But insofar as the Chair is concerned, any
collateral matter with some relevance or logical relationship to the factum probandum
may be allowed.
MR. PEREZ. Your Honor, may I proceed?
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. You may proceed.
MR. PEREZ. Kaysa hihingin ko pa ho sa stenographer na ulitin iyong sinabi n'yong
sagot, nakalimutan ko na po dahil po sa galing ng mga argumento po ng aking
magiting na katunggali.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. You should not forget so soon. Probably, we could
require the stenographer to....
MR. PEREZ. No, Your Honor. I will just ask the witness to repeat. That will be, I think,
maybe....
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. What should be repeated? The answer or the question?
MR. PEREZ. The answer, Your Honor.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Well, it would be unfair to the witness. He must have
forgotten the question too. [Laughter]
MR. PEREZ. May I ask the stenographer to please read the....
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. That is why we should appeal to the stenographic
notesMR. PEREZ. Yes, Your Honor. May I ask the stenographer....
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. --both for the question and the answer. So you can take
a little rest too.
Were you able to get, Madam Stenographer, the question and the answer?
STENOGRAPHER. Sir, very far.
SEN. DRILON. It may take some time, Your Honor, for the Stenographer to look at
the question and answer.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. So we may have a shorter time, the question will be
asked again.
MR. PEREZ. Yes, Your Honor.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. So, ask again the question.
MR. PEREZ. Thank you, Your Honor.
Noong nandoon kayo at pinag-uusapan ninyo ni Pangulong Estrada tungkol dito sa
BW Resources at ang pagtaas ng shares nito, ano ang sinabi sa inyo ni G.
Pangulong Joseph Ejercito Estrada?
MR. ESPIRITU. Well, Your Honor, I guess in the excitement of the President with
regards to the upsurge of the BW shares, binanggit po niya sa akin in Tagalog na
"Malaki na ang kinikita ko dito sa BW shares."
MR. PEREZ. Ano naman ang naging reaksiyon ninyo dito sa sinabing ito ng ating
Pangulo?
MR. ESPIRITU. Eh, kasi po noong una, hindi ako naniniwala, Your Honor, doon sa
sinasabi ni Dante Tan na ang Pangulo ay partner ni Dante Tan dito sa BW, at ang
pumasok po sa isipan ko eh totoo pala iyong sinabi sa akin ni Dante Tan sapagkat
kinuwestiyon ko po si Dante Tan, "Bakit natalo ka ni Mark Jimenez kung ikaw ang in
control ng BW?" noong siya ay mapalitan ni Mark Jimenez.
MR. PEREZ. Noon namang Oktubre 1999, mayroon ka bang natatandaan na hindi
pangkaraniwang pangyayaring naganap sa Philippine Stock Exchange?
MR. ESPIRITU. Well, nabasa ko lang po at naririnig sa radyo at sa mga publications
iyong biglang pagtaas ng BW shares at medyo nga ho yata nagkakagulo na sa
Philippine Stock Exchange.
MR. PEREZ. Noon pong nagkaroon nang sinasabi nyong nagkakagulo, nalalaman
ba ninyo kung ano ang ginawa ng mga opisyales ng Philippine Stock Exchange?
MR. ESPIRITU. Humingi po sila ng appointment sa akin. Mga first week po yata ng
November, dumating po si Chairman Trining Kalaw kasama po si President Yulo at
mayroon pa pong ibang mga opisyales ng Philippine Stock Exchange at kasama pa
rin yata ho doon si Vivian Yuchengco. Iyon ang natatandaan ko. At medyo po ang
unang binanggit nila ay kailangang-kailangan ng tulong ng Department of Finance at
ng pamahalaan sa problema ng Philippine Stock Exchange sapagkat po medyo
lumalaki na ang tinatawag nilang "float" ng mga brokers ng Stock Exchange dahil po
dito sa BW Resources.
MR. PEREZ. Ipaliwanag nga ninyo sa amin kung ano ang ibig sabihin noong "float"?
MR. ESPIRITU. Iyon pong "float" ay mayroon pong mga brokers na hindi na
makabayad. Mayroon pong mga brokers na hindi maka-deliver at marami na nga
pong nasasaktan, hindi lang brokers, pati mga innocent buyers. Kaya po tumakbo
sila sa akin at nabanggit po na hindi sila nakakakuha ng tamang kooperasyon sa
Securities and Exchange Commission tungkol sa kanilang ginagawang
imbestigasyon sa nangyari nga po dito sa BW Resources.
MR. PEREZ. Napag-alaman ba ninyo kung magkanong halaga nitong "float" na
inyong binabanggit?
MR. ESPIRITU. Ang natatandaan ko po, eh, umaabot na po daw nang P1.8 billion at
baka nga raw po mag-explode itong problema na ito at magkaloko-loko ang
ekonomiya ng bayan.
MR. PEREZ. Ano naman po ang ginawa ninyo tungkol doon sa hinihinging tulong ng
opisyales ng Philippine Stock Exchange?
MR. ESPIRITU. Sinabi ko po na iimbistigahan ko hanggang makakaya ko sapagkat
ako nga po ay nagwo-worry na dito sa report nila. At ang sabi ko, pararatingin ko ito
sa mahal na Pangulo. "At isa pa," kako, "Eh, bukas, patatawag ko si Dante Tan para
malaman ko kung ano nga ba itong sinasabi nyong nangyayari sa BW Resources."
MR. PEREZ. Pagkaraan po noong pagkakataong iyon, ano po ang ginawa ninyo?
MR. ESPIRITU. Pinatawag ko po si Dante Tan at dumating naman po sa opisina.
MR. PEREZ. Saan pong opisina iyon?
MR. ESPIRITU. Dito po sa opisina ko sa Department of Finance.
MR. PEREZ. Noon pong dumating na si Dante Tan sa inyong opisina, ano po ang
naganap?
MR. ESPIRITU. Kinonfront ko po si Dante Tan na masyadong delikado itong
nangyayari at pagka ito'y pumutok, ang masasaktan dito ay si President Estrada at
ang ating bayan.
MR. PEREZ. Nagkaroon ba ng paliwanag kung bakit ang masasaktan ay si
Pangulong Estrada at ang ating bayan?
MR. ESPIRITU. Well, ang unang-una pong sinabi ni Dante Tan ay: "Hindi po ako ang
may kagagawan nito. Hindi po ako. Ako po ay nawalan dito." Nalugi po raw siya doon
sa sudden upsurge of the BW shares during that period, in October.
MR. PEREZ. Meron ba siyang tinukoy na mga taong diumano ay may kagagawan
nitong bagay na ito?
MR. ESPIRITU. Tinanong ko po siya. Ako po ang nagtanong sa kaniya. At ang sabi
niya: "Ito po ay kagagawan ng medyo nakaaway ko sa business." At nagbanggit po
siya ng pangalan.
MR. PEREZ. Natatandaan ba ninyo kung merong nangyari upang itong problemang
sinasabi ni Dante ay mabigyan ng solusyon?
MR. ESPIRITU. Tinanong ko muna sa kaniya po sino iyong.... "Kung wala kang
kasalanan, sino ang may kagagawan nito?" Binanggit po niya ang tatlong pangalan
sa akin: si Mark Jimenez, si Wilson Sy, at si Willy Osier. Iyon po ang tatlong
pangalang binanggit niya sa akin na iyon daw ang nagpataas at tapos eh
nagpabagsak ng shares. Iyon po ang pagkakareport niya sa akin.
"Eh, ano ang nangyari dito?" Sabi niya sa akin noong tinanong ko: "Papaano? Ano
ang nangyari?" Eh, nireport daw niya sa mahal na Pangulo, ni Dante Tan.
MR. PEREZ. At ano naman, kung nalalaman mo, ang naging aksiyon ng ating
Pangulo?
MR. ESPIRITU. Muntik pong....
MR. DAZA. Incompetent.
MR. PEREZ. Part of the narration of the witness, Your Honor.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. He is being asked. Witness may answer. Overruled.
MR. ESPIRITU. Tinanong ko po siya kung ano ang nangyari? At sabi niya pinatawag
daw ng Pangulo iyong tatlo--si Jimenez, si Osier, at si Wilson Sy. At ang instruction
daw na ibinigay ng Presidente eh "I-restore ninyo iyan. Iyang nawala kay Dante,
ibalik ninyo." At sabi ni Dante ay napagalitan daw iyong tatlo.
MR. DAZA. Mr. Chief Justice.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Yes, Atty. Daza.
MR. DAZA. The answer is all hearsay by the use the word "daw", "according to." I am
a Visayan but I understand "daw" as something to indicate "according to." So if I were
to move to strike out that answer, the Prosecutor would ask that it remain to be just
part of a narration and I believe the ruling will be just to that effect. So, we will not
move to strike, with the understanding that that answer would only be a part of a
narration but not proof of the truth of the facts contained in that statement.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. It may be treated as such, but not to approve the truth
of the claim because technically speaking as the Presiding Officer sees it, it could
even be double hearsay yet.
MR. PEREZ. And, ano naman ang naging reaksiyon ninyo doon sa sinabing iyon ni
Dante Tan?
MR. ESPIRITU. Medyo po nagulat ako at dahil po ang iniisip ko noong oras na iyon
ay iyong problema po ng Philippine Stock Exchange. At nabanggit ko kay Dante: "O,
kaya palang ma-restore ng nawala sa iyo, bakit hindi mo sabihin sa Presidente na irestore iyong 1.8 billion na nagpo-float dito sa stock exchange?" Iyon po ang
tinanong ko kay Dante Tan.
MR. PEREZ. Ano naman ang naging kasagutan niya?
MR. ESPIRITU. Hindi na po siya kumibo.
MR. PEREZ. Meron pa bang sinabi si Dante Tan tungkol sa BW Resources?
MR. ESPIRITU. Iyon na lang po ang aking natatandaan, Your Honor.
MR. PEREZ. Binanggit mo na diumano ay sinabi ni Dante Tan na ipinasauli doon sa
tatlong taong binanggit mo iyong nalugi kay Mr. Dante Tan. May nasabi ba sa iyong
dahilan kung bakit ipinasauli ito?
MR. DAZA. Objected to for lack of basis. Hearsay cannot be a basis for a question.
MR. PEREZ. No, Your Honor.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Sustained.
MR. PEREZ. Doon sa sinabi ni Dante Tan na sinasabi niya na ipinasauli niya itong
nalugi sa kanya, nalalaman mo ba kung ano ang nangyari pagkaraan doon?
MR. ESPIRITU. Doon po ay nasabi ko na, "O, nakabawi naman pala kayong dalawa,
bakit nga hindi mo ipa-restore iyong float na P1.8 billion?" Doon po kami nagtapos ng
usapan.
MR. PEREZ. Pagkatapos noong inyong meeting ni Dante Tan, mayroon ba kayong
nakausap tungkol dito sa BW Resources?
MR. ESPIRITU. Ang ginawa ko po the following day ay tinawagan ko po si Secretary
Pardo na kung puwede kami mag-usap tungkol dito sa nangyayari sa Philippine
Stock Exchange at pati na po si Governor Buenaventura. Ang ginawa po namin ay
nagpatawag uli po kami ng meeting tatlo po kami doon po sa fifth floor ng Central
Bank building.
MR. PEREZ. At sino ang pinatawag n'yo sa meeting?
MR. ESPIRITU. Pinatawag po namin uli iyong mga officials ng Philippine Stock
Exchange.
MR. PEREZ. Ano ang naganap doon sa meeting na iyon?
MR. ESPIRITU. Ang report po ay pareho rin, at ang kanilang appeal nga ay mabigat
ang problema, hindi nagbabago at mukhang tuma-taas pa ang float, at kung
pupuwede tulungan lang sila sa imbestigasyon at matapos kaagad sapagkat walang
coordination nga raw po ang Philippine Stock Exchange at Securities and Exchange
Commission.
MR. PEREZ. Ano naman ang inyong ginawa tungkol dito?
MR. ESPIRITU. Ako po ay mag-isang nagpunta sa mahal na Pangulo at binanggit ko
nga po na napakabigat na itong problema at dapat ay pakialaman na. At ang
President po ay nagtanong kung bakit, bakit nagkakaganoon.
MR. PEREZ. At ano naman ang inyong naging kasagutan?
MR. ESPIRITU. "Mr. President, kung hindi ho natin magagawaan ng paraan ito na
mabilisan ang imbestigasyon, natatakot po ako." Ang sagot naman sa akin ng
Pangulo, "Victim naman diyan si Dante Tan, eh, at nalugi nga kami diyan, eh."
Medyo po na-discouraged ako sapagkat ang aking gustong asikasuhin ay iyong
nangyayari po sa Philippine Stock Exchange. Hindi ko na po iniintindi iyang BW
Resources per se but more on the problem of the float, Your Honor.
MR. PEREZ. And what was the reaction of the President on the problem of the float?
MR. ESPIRITU. Hindi nga po siya gumawa ng kahit na isang any instruction with
regard to this problem of the Philippine Stock Exchange. (.....)*
___________
* Stricken off the record per order of the Presiding Officer.
MR. DAZA. I move to strike that part of the answer which is a conjecture. Witness
was saying that there might have been some other officials assigned to look into it,
but I don't know if there was any.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. The motion is well-grounded. Strike out that answer.
That portion of the answer.
MR. PEREZ. When the President said, and I quote: "Nalugi nga kami diyan," what
was your reaction to that statement of the President?
MR. DAZA. Already answered. He said he was...
MR. PEREZ. No...
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. What was the answer?
MR. DAZA. The answer was that, he was discouraged. That is why he did not pursue
anymore the subject matter of the conversation.
MR. PEREZ. That was about the float, Your Honor.
MR. DAZA. Yes. The question was already answered.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. You mean you are...
MR. PEREZ. The previous question, Your Honor, was about the reaction of the
President on the float. And this one is...
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. And this time you are asking his reaction?
MR. PEREZ. About the reaction of the witness.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. It is the reaction of the witness that is being asked for.
MR. DAZA. Yes, already answered. He said he was discouraged by the answer of
the President that is why he did not do anything, and further added that he does not
know whether the matter was referred to some other official. That was well answered.
MR. PEREZ. Your Honor, we could always appeal to the records, but it will take more
time. It will be faster and easier for the witness to answer.
MR. DAZA. Yes, but if the question is objectionable...
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. The Presiding Officer will ask the witness: Had you
given that answer as quoted by the Counsel for the Defense?
MR. DAZA. The question of the court.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Mr. Witness.
MR. ESPIRITU. Yes, Your Honor.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Already answered. Atty. Perez.
MR. PEREZ. No, no. He was referring to "Yes, Your Honor."
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. "Yes, Your Honor."
MR. PEREZ. No, asking you, Your Honor.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. I was asking him if he did give that answer as quoted by
the Counsel for the Defense. The answer is, "Yes, Your Honor."
MR. ESPIRITU. Your Honor, my reply to that question is with regards to the... I was
discouraged because the President did not give any instruction with regards to the
problem of the float in the Philippine Stock Exchange, Your Honor.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. That is another matter. So the objection is overruled.
MR. DAZA. No, the question is on the same matter, Your Honor.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Objection overruled with that explanation of the witness.
The witness may answer.
MR. PEREZ. Uulitin ko na lang po iyong katanungan. Ano naman po ang inyong
naging reaksiyon doon sa sinabi ni Pangulong Joseph Ejercito Estrada na, "Nalugi
nga kami diyan."
MR. ESPIRITU. Medyo po sumama po ang loob ko at mukhang iyong unang
padududa ko sa mga sinasabi ni Dante Tan ay talagang totoo pala, Your Honor.
MR. PEREZ. After discussing with the President the problem of the float, what else
transpired between you and the President?
MR. ESPIRITU. Tungkol po sa BW Resources ay wala na po.
MR. PEREZ. Nalalaman mo ba kung ano ang kinakailangan sa panahon ng Estrada
administration, kung ang mga government financial institutions o dili kaya'y GFIs ay
nagbibigay ng pautang na humihigit sa P50 milyon?
MR. DAZA. Objection, immaterial. The question is regard to what GFIs do. It has
nothing to do with...
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. The objection is sustained.
MR. PEREZ. Your Honor, may I move for a reconsideration. This is only preliminary. I
cannot go direct to the point, Your Honor, without laying the basis that the
requirement of the government for GFIs...
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Would an explanation of your materiality give a
message to the witness as to what should be the testimony later?
MR. PEREZ. No, Your Honor.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. If that should be so, the Presiding Officer will call both
of you to the bench.
MR. PEREZ. Your Honor, my explanation will not give him
any cue.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Because you are saying it is preliminary and there is an
objection on materiality. So to avoid further objections later on, the two are invited to
the bench.
SUSPENSION OF TRIAL
Suspended for two minutes.
It was 5:58 p.m.
THE TRIAL WAS RESUMED AT 6:09 P.M.
RESUMPTION OF TRIAL
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. The trial is resumed.
Since the matter of issue would involve a resolution yet on the motion to quash the
subpoenas and also for protective order insofar as PNB is concerned, which should
be taken up tomorrow, upon agreement of the parties during the period when they
were before the bench, the private prosecutor may proceed on other points yet.
MR. PEREZ. With the permission of the Honorable Chief Justice,
Kagalang-galang na Testigo, noong Hulyo 1999, nalalaman ba ninyo kung sino ang
pumipili o humihirang ng mga direktor at matataas na opisyal ng Philippine National
Bank?
MR. ESPIRITU. Alam ko po, Your Honors, sapagkat ang Philippine National Bank po
ay under the control of the government noong panahon pong iyon.
MR. PEREZ. Sino ang pumipili?
MR. ESPIRITU. Ang Pangulo po ang nagno-nominate by way of communication to
the Chairman of the Board of PNB or the Secretary of Finance, nominating his
candidates for directors for PNB, Your Honor.
MR. PEREZ. Masasabi ba ninyo sa amin bilang Secretary of Finance kung ano ang
mga kinakailangan bago ang isang bangko ay nagpapautang sa isang umuutang?
MR. ESPIRITU. Very simple requirement po sa amin iyong so-called "3 Cs of credit."
MR. PEREZ. Ano po iyong 3 Cs na binabanggit ninyo?
MR. ESPIRITU. Iyon po'ng tinatawag po na character, capacity at collateral, and
some other secondary requirements bago po mag-qualify for eligibility as an
applicant for a loan accommodation, Your Honor.
MR. PEREZ. Noon pong Hulyo 1999, masasabi ba ninyo sa amin kung mayroong
capacity ang BW Resources na umutang ng malaki?
MR. DAZA. Objection, Mr. Chief Justice.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. What's the basis?
MR. DAZA. Objection, on the ground that this is immaterial and that this is still the
subject, this is related to the subject of the motion and the other pleadings relating to
the motion.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. You may defer until tomorrow.
MR. PEREZ. Very well then, Your Honor, until tomorrow.
Sinabi ninyo na kayo ay naging Secretary of Finance hanggang Enero 5, 200,
papaano naputol itong inyong paglilingkod sa pamahalaan?
MR. ESPIRITU. Taong 2000.
MR. PEREZ. 2000.
MR. ESPIRITU. Your Honor, I filed an irrevocable letter of resignation on that date
effective immediately.
MR. PEREZ. Your Honor, I'm proposing a stipulation with the counsel for admission
of Exhibit "DDDDDDDDD" and Exhibit "EEEEEEEEE" which, respectively, pertains to
resignation of Mr. Espiritu and the acceptance so that we will not have to get the
records from Malacanang.
MR. DAZA. So stipulated.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. So stipulated, admitted.
MR. PEREZ. Ito pong inyong resignation na markadong Exhibit "DDDDDDDDD",
kanino po ninyo ibinigay ito?
MR. ESPIRITU. Ibinigay ko po iyan kay mahal na Pangulong Erap Estrada.
MR. PEREZ. Napansin ko po dito sa inyong resignation at binanggit ninyo na
"irrevocable and effective immediately", na wala kayong nabanggit na dahilan. Bakit
po walang nabanggit na dahilan dito sa inyong sulat na ito?
MR. DAZA. Objection, the document is the best evidence of its contents.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Precisely, the question is: Why is the reason or why are
the reasons not given? The objection is overruled.
MR. ESPIRITU. Alam ko naman pong magkakaroon ako ng tinatawag na "exit
interview", Your Honor, pagharap ko sa Pangulo at ang nasa isip ko nga ay
babanggitin ko ng lahat sa mahal na Pangulo kung ano talaga ang tunay na reasons
kung bakit po ako ay nag-desisyon after a long, long study and evaluation why I need
to resign.
MR. PEREZ. At ano po iyong dahilan na sinasabi ninyo?
MR. ESPIRITU. Sinabi ko po sa Pangulo na ako ay magre-resign na sapagkat hindi
ko na po makaya itong mga nangyayari sa ating pamahalaan na kontra sa aking
konsensiya.
MR. PEREZ. Anu-ano po iyong sinasabi ninyong kontra sa inyong konsensiya?
MR. ESPIRITU. Unang-una pong binanggit ko sa Pangulo, Your Honor...
MR. DAZA. Objection. Immaterial and irrelevant.
MR. PEREZ. Material, Your Honor. How would the Counsel know if it is material or
not until the witness has answered?
MR. DAZA. Well, the reason for the resignation-THE PRESIDING OFFICER. There is a reason for the resignation.
MR. DAZA. --has got no bearing whatever, Mr. Chief Justice.
MR. PEREZ. That's very material. It has a bearing to this case, Your Honor.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. At this point, the objection will have to be sustained.
MR. PEREZ. Your Honor, may I move for reconsideration because the witness will
cite among the reasons BW Resources which is the issue.
MR. DAZA. Well, I vigorously protest the explanation of Counsel. He is practically
putting the answer into the mouth of his very intelligent witness who is a lawyer.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. The answer, in fact, has been given to the witness by
the explanation given.
MR. DAZA. May I request....
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Anyway, was it among...The only question is, or rather
the suggestion of the Counsel was that among the reasons was the fact concerning
the BW Resources.
MR. DAZA. There is nothing we can do about it. It's been already... It's now a public
record. But I would...
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. I am not yet through.
MR. DAZA. But I would object to any further question to develop that point-THE PRESIDING OFFICER. I am not yet through.
MR. DAZA. --because it is really immaterial and irrelevant.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. I think, really, it was an unfair manifestation on the part
of the prosecutor when he already gave the answer for the witness. So, the Court will
have to consider that particular manifestation of the Counsel.
MR. DAZA. Thank you, Mr. Chief Justice.
MR. PEREZ. May I say something, Your Honor?
Your Honor, my previous question was: "What were the reasons that you cited it in
your...
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. That is correct, Your Honor. You could have simply
explained what would be the objective but not informing exactly one of the reasons
which is actually an issue now before the Court.
MR. PEREZ. It came about, Your Honor, because precisely of the objection of
Counsel.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. It could have been done in some other way.
MR. PEREZ. I'm sorry, Your Honor, but there is no other way I know other than to...
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Let it stay on record with the observation of the
Presiding Officer that the Court should consider that particular matter when
deliberating on the merits of the case.
The honorable Senator-Judge Enrile.
SEN. ENRILE. May I get a clarification from the Presiding Chief Justice what is the
meaning of "to consider this particular matter when we deliberate on the case." Are
we going to disregard this manifestation because it is not evidence?
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. The Chair will not make an announcement on what
would it be. But I think when the Senator-Judges would sit deliberating on the facts,
this particular matter may be taken into account.
SEN. ENRILE. That it was made as a manifestation, Mr. Chief Justice?
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. It was a manifestation merely of Counsel.
SEN. ENRILE. Thank you.
MR. PEREZ. May I proceed, Your Honor?
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. To other points.
MR. PEREZ. What were the matters discussed during your exit interview that has a
bearing to the present issue in this case for which you were called to testify?
MR. DAZA. Objection, leading and vague.
MR. PEREZ. How can it be leading, Your Honor?
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Witness may answer.
MR. ESPIRITU. Tatlong bagay lamang po ang tinake-up ko sa Pangulo nang ako ay
mag-resign.
The first is the issue of the unofficial friends of the President, at binanggit ko na
kailangang gawan na niya ng paraan sapagkat medyo nagkakagulo na nga po ang
kaniyang administrasyon. Dalawa lamang naman po kami kaya binanggit ko ito.
Pangalawa, iyon pong graft and corruption. Ang binanggit ko sa kaniya ay ang graft
and corruption sa aking department po, iyong Bureau of Internal Revenue at Bureau
of Customs, na nahihirapan na kami sapagkat napakabigat nga ng problema ng graft
and corruption dito sa dalawang agency na ito.
At ang pangatlong binanggit ko ay itong BW Resources. Sinabi ko po sa Pangulo na
ito ay baka pumutok na at, "Mahal na Pangulo, kahit na kayo ay nalugi dito, mas
mahalaga po ang remaining four years ninyo dito sa administration upang mabago
ang patakbo dito sa pamahalaan na ito. Kung maaari po," dahil suggestion po ang
aking ibinigay sa kaniya, "kung maaari po ay mag-issue kayo ng memorandum bukas
po ng umaga, address to the Securities and Exchange Commission and coordinating
with the Philippine Stock Exchange, to please come out with the report on the
investigation within 30 days and include a memorandum that you don't care who gets
hurt." Iyon lamang po ang sinabi ko, ang tatlong bagay na iyon.
MR. PEREZ. And what was the reaction of the President?
MR. ESPIRITU. Hindi po siya kumikibo at nag-react siya ng kaunti. Afterwards nang
nag-iisip siya tungkol dito sa graft and corruption, ang sinabi niya sa akin ay,
"Nandidiyan naman sa iyo iyan, bakit wala kang nagawa? Mukhang nagsa-sour
graping ka lamang." Ganoon ang sagot sa akin ng Pangulo.
Ang exit interview ko po naman ay ang isip ko ay para makatulong sa kaniya na
maayos ang ating pamahalaan.
MR. PEREZ. Ano naman po ang reaksiyon, kung mayroon man, ng ating Pangulo
tungkol sa binanggit ninyo tungkol sa BW Resources?
MR. ESPIRITU. Pareho rin po, ang kagaya ng dati na si Dante Tan po at sila ay
biktima lamang ng nangyari doon sa manipulation na sinasabi nila noong October po.
MR. PEREZ. Noong nakaraang buwan, Disyembre 12, 2000, humigit-kumulang sa
7:30 hanggang 8:00 ng gabi, natatandaan ba ninyo kung nasaan kayo noon?
MR. ESPIRITU. Opo, Your Honor.
MR. PEREZ. Nasaan kayo noon?
MR. ESPIRITU. Nasa departure lounge po ako ng Philippine Airlines. Papunta po
ako ng Los Angeles.
MR. PEREZ. Mayroon bang naganap na hindi pangkaraniwan sa inyo nuong
pagkakataong iyon?
MR. ESPIRITU. Nakatanggap po ako ng call sa pager na mayroon akong telephone
call. So, nagpunta po ako doon sa lounge at pagkasagot ko sa telepono, ang
sumagot po ay a certain "Malou". Ang sabi sa akin ay, "Sir, si Malou po ito.
Kakausapin ka raw ni Boss."
MR. PEREZ. Ano ang nangyari pagkatapos noon?
MR. ESPIRITU. After a few seconds ay kausap ko na pala ang Pangulong Erap
Estrada at ang sabi po niya sa akin ay, "Ed, ang balita ko ay magte-testify ka raw."
Ang sagot ko po ay, "Mahal na Pangulo, ako po ay paalis ng bansa at I will be
spending the holidays in Los Angeles." So, hindi ko po sinagot ang kaniyang tanong
na magte-testify.
Ang sabi niya sa akin ay, "Magkaibigan naman tayo, hindi ba? Baka mayroon akong
maitutulong sa iyo, sabihin mo lamang at tutulungan kita." Ang sabi ko sa Pangulo
ay, "Wala naman ho, mahal na Pangulo, at katunayan po ay nagkausap na kami ni
Manny Zamora." At hindi ko na po sinabi kung ano ang napag-usapan namin ni
Manny Zamora. "A, ganoon ba, nagkausap na kayo." So doon po natapos ang aming
pag-uusap.
MR. PEREZ. Your Honor, the other matters that this witness will testify on are those
that are pending, connected with the pending incident with the Honorable Tribunal.
So, we ask that the testimony of the witness be suspended until the resolution of that
issue. But in the meantime, Your Honor, after it has been suspended, I have some
documents which are official for which I will ask for a stipulation....
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Already premarked?
MR. PEREZ. Yes, Your Honor.
MR. DAZA. May we dispose of that motion for suspension of the testimony first
before we go into stipulation.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. That was part of the agreement.
MR. DAZA. Yes, that was part of the agreement. We want to go on record....
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. That was part of the agreement earlier that the matter
regarding the PNB will be taken up tomorrow.
MR. DAZA. Yes, Mr. Chief Justice.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. What are these documents, Atty. Perez?
MR. PEREZ. We are proposing a stipulation, Your Honor, on the existence of Exhibit
"X," "YYYYYYYY," "ZZZZZZZZ," "ZZZZZZZZ-1," "AAAAAAAAA," "BBBBBBBBB,"
"CCCCCCCCC," and "CCCCCCCCC-1", Your Honor.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Do you have copies of these exhibits, Atty. Daza?
MR. DAZA. So stipulated.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. So, admitted then, admitted by the Defense?
MR. DAZA. So admitted; existence and contents and everything, including the
portions that are a little blurred on my copies. We will reconstruct the blurred portions.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. You will not be asking for a clearer copy?
MR. DAZA. We will just go over the same. That's no big problem, Your Honor.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. We are checking because our copies may also be-might also be blurred. Anyway, the originals of these documents are with the
Secretary of the Senate.
MR. PEREZ. That's correct, Your Honor.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. In the meantime, what would be the pleasure of the two
gentlemen?
MR. DAZA. Well, as agreed, the testimony will be suspended until tomorrow.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. And are you ready with another witness?
MR. PEREZ. Yes, Your Honor.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Who would be the next witness? Before the other
witness is called, the Presiding Officer will have to make some corrections in respect
to the order that he issued earlier. The rule cited by him should be corrected. Instead
of Rule 132, Section 2, it should be Rule 128, Section 4.
MR. PEREZ. Your Honor, may the witness be excused in the meantime.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. The witness, Atty. Espiritu, is excused, but you will have
to return tomorrow for the continuation of your direct testimony and the cross
thereafter.
MR. ESPIRITU. Thank you, Your Honor.
MR. PEREZ. For the record, Your Honor, I would like to make it appear that I am
leaving the originally marked exhibits that I have cited which have been the subject of
stipulation with the Secretary, Your Honor.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Make it of record. Next witness.
REP. GONZALEZ. We call on our next witness, Mr. Chief Justice, former Chairman
Yasay of the Securities and Exchange Commission.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Bring him to the witness stand. Former Chairman
Yasay, where are you?
REP. GONZALEZ. He is at the holding room and he is being called now, Mr. Chief
Justice.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Do not hold him any further. Bring him here.
REP. GONZALEZ. He just went to the washroom, Mr. Chief Justice.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Who will be the examining and assisting examining
counsel?
REP. GONZALEZ. I will be the Examining Counsel , Mr. Chief Justice. Assisting me
is Atty. Daniel Cartagena, Private Prosecutor.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. The assisting is..?
REP. GONZALEZ. Atty. Daniel Cartagena.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Cartagena.
REP. GONZALEZ. His appearance is entered.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Is he a private prosecutor?
REP. GONZALEZ. Private prosecutor, Your Honor. His appearance has been
entered.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Already. And for the Defense, Atty. Daza, who will be
the principal cross-examining and assisting cross -examining counsel?
MR. DAZA. Same lawyers.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. The same.
MR. DAZA. I shall be the cross-examining Counsel and I shall be assisted by Atty.
Jose Flaminiano.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Mr. Secretary, administer the oath.
THE SECRETARY. Kindly raise your right hand, put your left hand on the Holy Bible
and answer me.
You, PERFECTO R. YASAY, JR., do swear that the evidence you shall give in the
case now pending between the Philippines and Joseph Ejercito Estrada, President of
the Philippines, shall be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help
you God.
MR. YASAY. I do.
REP. GONZALEZ. May I proceed, Your Honor.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Prosecutor Gonzalez.
REP. GONZALEZ. Thank you, Mr.Chief Justice. May I first qualify this witness, Mr.
Chief Justice.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Proceed.
REP. GONZALEZ. Mr.Witness, will you please state your name.
MR. YASAY. I'm Perfecto R. Yasay, Jr., of legal age, married, and presently residing
at l9 Sorsogon, Quezon City.
REP. GONZALEZ. What is your occupation or profession?
MR. YASAY. I am a lawyer by profession, Your Honor.
REP. GONZALEZ. Your Honors, the witness, former chairman of the Securities and
Exchange Commission, Perfecto Yasay, Jr. is being offered to prove the following:
1. That he was Chairman of the Securities and Exchange Commission with a fixed
term until the year 2004;
2. That in l999, there were unusual movements in the price and trading volume of
BW Resources Corporation which is a corporation controlled by Dante Tan;
3. That shortly after President Joseph Ejercito Estrada assumed office, Chairman
Yasay was already being removed from his position, notwithstanding his fixed term of
office;
4. That he was suspended repeatedly by the Ombudsman which effectively removed
him for six (6) months as chairman of the Securities and Exchange Commission.
5. That one of the reasons why there was pressure for Chairman Yasay to be out of
the Securities and Exchange Commission was, first, the PLDT transaction which
could not have pushed through if he remained in office;
6. That he was pressured by President Joseph Ejercito Estrada to clear Dante Tan
and BW Resources in the market manipulations involving Dante Tan and BW
Resources;
7. That Chairman Yasay has received threats and pressures which prompted him
eventually to resign before his term was to end in the year 2004.
8. Chairman Yasay is being offered, that the President violated public trust and the
BW Resources scam is the culmination of all. that the President violated public trust,
and the BW resources scam is the culmination of all the attempts of the President to
control the Securities and Exchange Commission and the stock market.
MR. DAZA. Mr. Chief Justice, I notice from the offer...
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Attorney Daza.
MR. DAZA. I notice from the offer mention of some transaction regarding PLDT
shares. And I would like to state for the record that this is not any of the charges. It is
not alleged in the impeachment complaint and therefore is immaterial and irrelevant
to the case.
REP. GONZALEZ. This will be part of the witness' narration of the whole process
during his term of office at SEC, Mr. Chief Justice, and has something to do with the
violation of public trust, the betrayal of public trust of the President.
MR. DAZA. Well, just a brief retort, Mr. Chief Justice.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Reply.
MR. DAZA. The betrayal of public trust has been sufficiently alleged in the complaint.
And nowhere, but nowhere, in the complaint is there mention of the PLDT shares.
MR. GONZALEZ. We believe...
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. The objection to that announce-ment of the offer is
noted and the appropriate objection may be made at the proper time when questions
will be asked about that.
REP. GONZALEZ. Thank you, Mr. Chief Justice.
May I proceed, Your Honors?
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. But in order not to further delay the proceedings, the
Counsel, the Prosecutor is advised to go on matters outside of what have been
objected to specifically in the meantime.
REP. GONZALEZ. Your Honor, this will be part of the witness' narration from the very
start of the Estrada administration until the time when he resigned.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. You may proceed and then the objections may be
tendered at the appropriate time.
The honorable Senator-Judge Enrile.
SEN. ENRILE. Mr. Chief Justice, I note the time, it's now 6:37 and I understand we
are going to have a break at 6:45. May I respectfully suggest that we make the break
now so that when we come back, we will hear the testimony of the witness without
any break.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. A very sound suggestion.
SEN. ENRILE. For the consideration of the Court.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. The Majority Leader.
THE MAJORITY LEADER. In light of that request, may I propose 20-minute break.
SUSPENSION OF TRIAL
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. No objection? [Silence] There being none, we shall
have the second break for 20 minutes. We will resume at exactly 7:00. It would be 22
minutes.
THE MAJORITY LEADER. Yes, Mr. Chief Justice.
It was 6:38 p.m.
THE TRIAL WAS RESUMED AT 7:01 P.M.
SERGEANT AT ARMS [MR. LEONARDO LOPEZ]. Please all rise for the entrance of
the Honorable Senate President-Judge Aquilino Pimentel Jr. and the Honorable
Presiding Officer, Chief Justice Hilario G. Davide Jr.
RESUMPTION OF TRIAL
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. The trial is now resumed. The honorable Prosecutor
Gonzalez.
REP. GONZALEZ. Thank you, Mr. Chief Justice.
Mr. Yasay, can you please tell the Court, the Honorable Impeachment Court, if you
have had held positions in the government?
MR. YASAY. Yes, Your Honor.
REP. GONZALEZ. What positions, if any?
MR. YASAY. I held the position of Associate Commissioner of of the Securities and
Exchange Commission and as Chairman of the same Commission, Your Honor.
REP. GONZALEZ. When were you Chairman?
MR. YASAY. I was appointed Chairman in October of 1995, Your Honor. And I
resigned in March 25 of the year 2000.
REP. GONZALEZ. Did you have a fixed term of office?
MR. YASAY. Yes, Your Honor. Under the terms of my appointment as Chairman, I
had a seven-year term which was supposed to have expired in March of 2004.
REP. GONZALEZ. Who fixes the term of office of the Chair?
MR. YASAY. The term of office of the Chair of the SEC is fixed by law, Your Honor.
REP. GONZALEZ. What law is that?
MR. YASAY. This is Presidential Decree 902-A, Your Honor.
REP. GONZALEZ. 902-A?
MR. YASAY. That is correct, Your Honor.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. PD?
REP. GONZALES. Presidential Decree 902-A, Your Honor.
Mr. Yasay, the Securities and Exchange Commission which you became Chairman
sometime in 1995, what kind of government agency is this?
MR. YASAY. The Securities and Exchange Commission, Your Honor, is both a
regulatory and adjudicative agency of the government. We also perform the functions
of being a corporate registrar, Your Honor.
REP. GONZALEZ. Again? Corporate registrar?
MR. YASAY. That is correct, Your Honor.
REP. GONZALEZ. Do I understand correctly, therefore, that the Securities and
Exchange Commission per Presidential Decree 902-A is a quasi-judicial agency
which exercises both adjudicatory as well as regulatory and administrative functions?
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Is that not a matter of law?
REP. GONZALEZ. Your Honor?
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Is it not a matter of law?
REP. GONZALEZ. Just for clarification, Your Honor. Because we have senatorjudges who are not lawyers.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. I think, all the lawyers and the public would know what
is the nature of the function of the SEC.
REP. GONZALEZ. In connection with the...May I proceed, Mr. Chief Justice?
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. You may proceed.
REP. GONZALEZ. In connection with the regulatory powers, what extent is this
regulatory power over entities of which SEC has jurisdiction?
MR. YASAY. Principally, Your Honor, under the Revised Securities Act, which was
the law then obtaining when I was Chairman of the SEC, the regulatory functions of
the SEC involve its regulations
over all the aspects of the securities market, including the various
market players therein, as well as under the Corporation Code, the
SEC regulated all corporations in the Philippines and registered partnerships, Your
Honor.
REP. GONZALEZ. As such, what is the relation between the Securities and
Exchange Commission and the Philippine Stock Exchange?
MR. YASAY. The Philippine Stock Exchange is being regulated by the SEC, Your
Honor, because the SEC under its mandate also regulates all exchanges, including
the PSE, the underwriters, the brokers and dealers, and all similar securities market
players, Your Honor.
REP. GONZALEZ. What about its adjudicatory functions?
MR. YASAY. The adjudicative function of the SEC pertains to PD 902-A and it has
exclusive jurisdiction over all intercorporate disputes, including petitions for debt relief
and similar actions, Your Honor.
REP. GONZALEZ. As a regulatory agency, am I correct to assume that SEC has the
power to investigate the Philippine Stock Exchange?
MR. YASAY. It is correct, Your Honor, but its investigation is much broader than just
being able to investigate the Philippine Stock Exchange. It investigates also all frauds
in the securities market and all frauds being committed within a corporate setup, Your
Honor.
REP. GONZALEZ. Do you know President Joseph Ejercito Estrada?
MR. YASAY. Yes, Your Honor. I know the President.
REP. GONZALEZ. Have you met President Joseph Ejercito Estrada personally while
you were Chairman of the SEC?
MR. YASAY. Yes, Your Honor. I've met him several times.
REP. GONZALEZ. And were there occasions during your incumbency when you
have talked to the President either personally or by phone?
MR. YASAY. Yes, Your Honor. I've spoken with the President both personally and
through the telephones several times.
REP. GONZALEZ. Do you know Mr. Ruben Almadro?
MR. YASAY. Yes, I know Mr. Ruben Almadro, Your Honor.
REP. GONZALEZ. Why do you know Mr. Almadro?
MR. YASAY. I know him because at that time I was Chairman of the SEC, he was the
Vice President of the Philippine Stock Exchange and also the head of the
Compliance and Surveillance Division of the PSE with whom the SEC had very close
relationship.
REP. GONZALEZ. Do you know Mr. Jose Luis Yulo Jr.?
MR. YASAY. I also know Mr. Jose....
REP. GONZALEZ. Why do you know Mr. Jose Luis Yulo Jr.?
MR. YASAY. I know him because at the time I was Chairman, Your Honor, he was
the President of the Philippine Stock Exchange, and we had a very close
coordinative relationship, Your Honor.
REP. GONZALEZ. Mr. Witness, you said that you were appointed Chairman of the
Securities and Exchange Commission sometime in 1995.
MR. YASAY. That is correct, Your Honor.
REP. GONZALEZ. Will you tell me therefore who was the sitting Chairman of the
Securities and Exchange Commission when President Joseph Ejercito Estrada
became President-MR. YASAY. I was....
REP. GONZALEZ. --in 1998?
MR. YASAY. I was the Chairman of the Securities and Exchange Commission at that
time, Your Honor.
REP. GONZALEZ. Because there was a new administration in July 1 or June 30,
1998, do you remember having submitted any courtesy resignation?
MR. YASAY. I did not submit any courtesy resignation, Your Honor.
REP. GONZALEZ. Can you tell us why you did not submit-MR. YASAY. I did not submit....
REP. GONZALEZ. --even just a courtesy resignation?
MR. YASAY. I did not submit any courtesy resignation, Your Honor, because as I've
said earlier, my term as Chairman of the Securities and Exchange Commission is for
a fixed period, and I can only be removed for cause.
REP. GONZALEZ. For cause?
MR. YASAY. That is correct, Your Honor.
REP. GONZALEZ. In the Securities and Exchange Commission, you have several
departments, is that correct?
MR. YASAY. That is correct, Your Honor.
REP. GONZALEZ. Can you tell us what these departments are?
MR. YASAY. There were nine departments altogether in the Securities and
Exchange Commission. That include the Brokers and Exchanges Department-REP. GONZALEZ. Slowly, please.
MR. YASAY. --the Prosecution and Enforcement Department, the Money Market
Operations Department, the Corporate Legal Department, the Examination and
Appraisers Department. You have the Administrative and Finance Department. You
have the Investment Research Department, among others, Your Honor.
REP. GONZALEZ. Can you please speak closer to the mike so....
MR. YASAY. I am sorry, Your Honor.
REP. GONZALEZ. You said that the Securities and Exchange Commission has the
power to investigate corporations including the stock market. Is that correct?
MR. YASAY. That is correct, Your Honor.
REP. GONZALEZ. What particular department in the SEC is this power to investigate
lodged?
MR. YASAY. The principal power to investigate, Your Honor, is vested upon the
Prosecution and Enforcement Department of the SEC.
REP. GONZALEZ. What is that again?
MR. YASAY. The Prosecution and Enforcement Department of the SEC. PED, for
short, Your Honor.
REP. GONZALEZ. During your time as Chairman, who headed this department?
MR. YASAY. At that time, Your Honor, the head of the department was Atty. Ruben
Ladia.
REP. GONZALEZ. You said there are nine departments in the Securities and
Exchange Commission. Is that correct?
MR. YASAY. That is correct, Your Honor.
REP. GONZALEZ. The Securities and Exchange Commission is a collegial body. Is
that correct?
MR. YASAY. That is correct, Your Honor.
REP. GONZALEZ. Now, can you tell us who supervises the different departments-these nine departments--which you mentioned in the SEC?
MR. YASAY. Under the law, Your Honor, Presidential Decree No. 902-A, the
Chairman of the Commission has executive supervision and control and direction
over all the bodies and departments, the staff, even the members of the Commission,
Your Honor.
REP. GONZALEZ. Without having to convene en banc?
MR. YASAY. Without having to convene en banc, Your Honor. That is insofar as PD
902-A is concerned. As Chairman of the SEC at that time, I was the Chief Executive
Officer of the SEC.
REP. GONZALEZ. Now, you said or you just testified that with the advent of a new
administration in June 30, 1998 of President Joseph Ejercito Estrada, you did not
submit a resignation, a courtesy resignation because you have a fixed term of office.
My question to you is, do you know what was the reaction of Malacañang by your
refusal to submit this courtesy resignation?
MR. DAZA. No basis. The question is refusal. There is no basis to the question.
REP. GONZALEZ. The witness, Your Honor, ...
MR. DAZA. The question...the reason for the..."What was the reaction of Malacañang
to your refusal to submit?"
REP. GONZALEZ. "Your failure to submit the courtesy resignation..."
MR. DAZA. It assumes that there was something that preceded the refusal to submit.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Overruled. The witness may answer.
MR. YASAY. Could you please repeat the question, Your Honor.
REP. GONZALEZ. The question was, you said you did not submit a courtesy
resignation notwithstanding the advent of a new administration of President Joseph
Ejercito Estrada. Do you know what was the reaction, if any, of Malacañang by this
failure on your part to submit any courtesy resignation?
MR. YASAY. Well, I did not notice any reaction on the part of Malacañang, Your
Honor, except that I knew and I've heard and it was in fact covered in the various
newspaper reports at that time even before the new President assumed office in
June 30, that I was going to be replaced as Chairman of the SEC.
MR. DAZA. I move to strike as hearsay.
REP. GONZALEZ. He was citing newspaper articles.
MR. DAZA. As part of the narration but not as proof of the fact in this case.
REP. GONZALEZ. Yes, as part of his narration.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Subject to the qualification.
REP. GONZALEZ. Mr. Witness, on July 3, 1998, do you remember having received a
call from an official in Malacañang?
MR. YASAY. Yes, Your Honor. I do remember.
REP. GONZALEZ. In this call, what was told to you by this official from Malacañang?
MR. YASAY. First, I received this call about 5:30 in the afternoon. I was in the office
at that time, and the caller told me that he had just gotten out of a meeting with the
President, together with some of the President's advisers and some of his newly
appointed Cabinet members, and that a decision was reached at that meeting to
have me removed as Chairman of the SEC.
REP. GONZALEZ. Why do you remember this particular call on this particular date?
MR. YASAY. I remember it very well, Your Honor, because this was the first
confirmation that I had about talks moving around that I was going to be removed as
Chairman of the SEC.
REP. GONZALEZ. You said earlier that you did not know any reaction from
Malacañang of your failure to submit any courtesy resignation. So, this call which you
received on July 3, 1998, on or about 5:30 in the afternoon, will you tell us if this was
your first inkling that you are about to be removed?
MR. YASAY. Well, as I have said, Your Honor, this was the first confirmation,
confirmation that I had that I was going to be removed.
REP. GONZALEZ. With this information from this official in Malacañang that you are
unwanted, in effect, that they wanted to have you removed based on the information
from this official in Malacañang....
MR. DAZA. Mr. Chief Justice.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Yes.
MR. DAZA. Objection. Immaterial and irrelevant. I understand from the....I
understand that this witness is being presented to prove the charge in the complaint,
and the matter of the alleged wanting to have him removed in 1998 has no bearing
whatever to the issue in fact here. The witness says, had previously testified that this
alleged manipulation of stocks happened from January 19....from May of 1999 to
October, and the witness is being asked to testify as to events in 1998 regarding the
alleged attempt to remove him from office.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. What is the relevance? What is the relevance and the
fact to be elicited?
REP. GONZALEZ. Your Honor please, this will have a bearing as will be shown in
later testimony, because of the scheme from the very start why this witness is being
removed which eventually culminated in the pressures on him on the BW, Mr. Chief
Justice.
MR. DAZA. The trading.....Mr. Chief Justice, the testimony so far on the trading was
in 1999, and this is July of 1998.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. I think we have to sustain the objection.
REP. GONZALEZ. We would like to ask for a reconsideration.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Can you not proceed to...by some questions to the
issue that you really want to establish in relation to the offer of, rather, to the
purposes for which the testimony would be offered?
REP. GONZALEZ. Your Honor please, because we wanted to show the pattern from
the very start why this witness, notwithstanding his term of office up to 2004, was in
fact already prepared to be removed as Chairman of the Securities and Exchange
Commission. And as I stated in my offer, the purpose precisely was to get him out
because of certain intentions on the part of the President to control the SEC as well
as the stock exchange. I believe that this is very relevant-MR. DAZA. Then clearly....
REP. GONZALEZ. --to the issue here, Your Honor, Mr. Chief Justice.
MR. DAZA. Then clearly, Mr. Chief Justice, with that statement, the thrust of the
questioning so far leads to matters that are completely immaterial, irrelevant and
alien to the charge. We are talking here of the BW shares.
REP. GONZALEZ. You cannot....I don't think, Your Honor, Mr. Chief Justice, that we
can just confine everything that we'll talk about here on BW without making
preliminary matters or talking about preliminary matters or at least collateral matters
and incidents.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. The collateral matters taken place in 1998. Up to this
point, it seems to be entirely so far away and alien to the main objective regarding
the BM....BW Resources manipulation of stocks.
REP. GONZALEZ. Well, Your Honor, the BW, of course, followed later on.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Then....
REP. GONZALEZ. But the....
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. That is the main thrust of the offer of the testimony, is it
not?
REP. GONZALEZ. That was not the only thrust, Mr. Justice, of the offer. That is why
we premised our question to why he was not able to submit any courtesy resignation
because he has a term of office, and he was informed by Malacañang official that it
was decided as early as July 3 that he was being removed. And we are going to the
reasons for these, Your Honor.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. We can allow this single question. Let's see how it
could be connected. The witness may answer.
MR. DAZA. In the spirit of goodwill, Mr. Chief Justice, I will not object to this one
question.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Let's see how he would be able to connect that to the
crux of the offer.
REP. GONZALEZ. I have already forgotten the question itself, Mr. Chief Justice. May
I request for the transcript to be read.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Yes. (Addressing the Stenographer) Do you
have...were you able to get the notes?
THE STENOGRAPHER. Yes, Your Honor.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Louder please.
THE STENOGRAPHER. (Reading) With this information from the official in
Malacañang that you are unwanted, in effect, they wanted you to be removed based
on the information? Objection...
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Indeed, the question is very objectionable.
REP. GONZALEZ. I have not finished that question.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Well, up to that point, it is objectionable already.
Probably it is better if you ask another question.
REP. GONZALEZ. Thank you, Mr. Chief Justice.
Mr. Witness, you did not resign as chairman of the Securities and Exchange
Commission. Do you remember what happened on July 23, 1998?
MR. DAZA. Same objection. July 23, 1998. Same objection.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Let's wait for the answer of the witness if it could really
be linked to another matter. Witness may answer.
MR. YASAY. Yes, Your Honor. Thank you very much. On July 23 of 1998, I was
placed under preventive suspension by the Ombudsman, Your Honor.
REP. GONZALEZ. When you were placed under preventive suspension by the
Ombudsman, do you know who assumed your position in the Securities and
Exchange Commission?
MR. DAZA. Mr. Chief Justice, objection. Immaterial and irrelevant.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Sustained.
REP. GONZALEZ. Mr. Chief Justice, is that immaterial or irrelevant to find out who
replaced him in the SEC when he was suspended?
MR. DAZA. But not in this trial.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. What has it to do with the purposes that you have
announced?
REP. GONZALEZ. I mentioned, Mr. Chief Justice, in the purpose that pressures were
made to bear on this witness. As a matter of fact, we mentioned that from the very
start of the term of the President, there was already moves to have him out of the
Securities and Exchange Commission so that the President can control the agency.
MR. DAZA. Mr. Chief Justice, the Ombudsman is an independent constitutional body,
and I think it is a matter of judicial notice that it is that kind of an office.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Is it the position of the Prosecutor that the action taken
by the Ombudsman was part of the pressures?
REP. GONZALEZ. Yes, Your Honor. It was a coincidental...
MR. DAZA. Then with the additional ground of lack of basis and for the witness being
incompetent.
REP. GONZALEZ. But the witness was merely testifying, Mr. Chief Justice, that he
was suspended. The only question being asked of this witness was who replaced
him when he was suspended.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Answer the question.
MR. YASAY. The person that replaced me in an OIC capacity was Associate
Commissioner Fe Eloisa Gloria of the SEC, Your Honor.
REP. GONZALEZ. Do you know Eloisa Gloria?
MR. YASAY. Yes, I know her because she was one of my associate commissioners,
Your Honor.
REP. GONZALEZ. After the suspension, do you remember anything else that
happened?
MR. YASAY. Well, less than a week after my suspension, the PLDT transaction
where Metro Pacific Group, a Hong Kong listed company, acquired controlling
interests in PLDT, Your Honor.
MR. DAZA. I move to strike the answer for being immaterial and irrelevant.
REP. GONZALEZ. Part of the narration of the witness.
MR. DAZA. All right, as part of the narration. But I would certainly object to further
questions regarding this alleged transaction because this is the PLDT, not the BW.
REP. GONZALEZ. Yes. But the witness is merely...
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. The witness is trying to justify the action taken against
him. So the qualification made by counsel for the Defense is noted. Then the
testimony may remain, but not to prove the truth of the answer of the witness but only
as part of the narration.
REP. GONZALEZ. Admitted.
MR. DAZA. Mr. Chief Justice, this answer, as I can glean from it, would lead to other
questions to prove perhaps, some wrongdoing on the part of the respondent, and
that would be unfair to let it go on the record. It would be prejudicial to the respondent
apart from the fact that it is this PLDT shares transaction being immaterial and
irrelevant.
REP. GONZALEZ. The witness...
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. What is the purpose of the testimony of the witness on
this ground? Just to prove that he was pressured?
REP. GONZALEZ. Yes, Your Honor.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. That is the sole purpose--that he was pressured.
MR. DAZA. On the PLDT shares.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. The pressures exerted on him. Eventually...
REP. GONZALEZ. He was being pressured, Mr. Chief Justice. This was already the
pattern here. He was being pressured so that certain transactions which the
President is interested in may not go through because it will need the regulatory
powers of the Securities and Exchange Commission so that it will materialize.
MR. DAZA. Then I object on the additional ground of calling for, for being conjectural.
REP. GONZALEZ. It will not be conjectural, Your Honor, if we will hear the
succeeding questions.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. It cannot be a conjecture, indeed, if the witness will be
testifying on a particular fact as to the particular pressure.
REP. GONZALEZ. May he answer, Mr. Chief Justice? Will the witness now answer?
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Only insofar as pressures are concerned.
REP. GONZALEZ. Yes.
MR. YASAY. Can you please repeat the question, Your Honor.
REP. GONZALEZ. There was already an answer which was objected to.
Now, Mr. Witness, do you know Secretary Jimmy Policarpio?
MR. YASAY. Yes, Your Honor, I know Secretary Jimmy Policarpio.
REP. GONZALEZ. Do you remember having received a call from Secretary Jimmy
Policarpio in connection with your duties as SEC Chairman?
MR. DAZA. Objection, leading.
REP. GONZALEZ. If he remembers.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Witness may answer.
MR. YASAY. I remember, Your Honor.
REP. GONZALEZ. What was that call, if you remember?
MR. YASAY. This call, Your Honor, came about three days after my preventive
suspension issued by the Ombudsman came into effect. And the call was placed to
me when I was at home at about 8:30 in the morning, Your Honor.
REP. GONZALEZ. What was the context of the call from Secretary Jimmy
Policarpio?
MR. YASAY. Secretary Policarpio told me, Your Honor, that he had objected to the
appointment of my replacement as Chairman of the SEC on the ground that the
position was not vacant and that having been placed merely under preventive
suspension, the President who had plans of appointing a chairman in my stead could
not be made.
REP. GONZALEZ. Now, do you remember having gone to a chiropractor's clinic in
Greenhills sometime in April, 1999?
MR. YASAY. Yes, Your Honor.
MR. DAZA. Objection.
REP. GONZALEZ. Already answered.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Already answered.
MR. DAZA. Yes, may we kindly request the witness not to immediately respond?
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Would you kindly.... The witness, would you kindly wait
for a little time to give an opportunity to
the Defense counsel to react to a question whether to allow it or to
object to it?
MR. YASAY. Yes, Your Honor.
REP. GONZALEZ. Do you remember what happened in that clinic?
MR. YASAY. Yes, Your Honor, I chanced upon a former official of Malacañang who
was also there at that time.
REP. GONZALEZ. And did you have a conversation with this official?
MR. YASAY. Yes, Your Honor, we had.
REP. GONZALEZ. Can you tell us the name of this official?
MR. DAZA. Objection. Objection for lack of basis and objection also for being
immaterial.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Overruled. Witness may answer.
MR. YASAY. Yes, Your Honor, the official that I met at that time was now Chairman
of the Comelec Harriet Demetriou, who was then at the time of my suspension the
Chief Presidential Legal Adviser.
REP. GONZALEZ. And you remember having had any conversation with now
Chairman Harriet Demetriou?
MR. YASAY. Yes, we had a conversation at that time in the clinic.
REP. GONZALEZ. What was your conversation all about?
MR. YASAY. Well, she told me also, Your Honor, that she objected to having a
replacement in my stead as Chairman of the SEC and that this was the reason why
Associate Commissioner Gloria was merely appointed in an OIC capacity.
REP. GONZALEZ. Was that all that you talked about?
MR. YASAY. Well, Chairman Demetriou also mentioned to me that the reason why I
was placed under preventive suspension at that time was to ensure that the
acquisition of Metro Pacific of PLDT shares would proceed without any hitch.
MR. DAZA. May I move to strike the answer for being immaterial and irrelevant.
That's what I was saying, Mr. Chief Justice. To allow him to testify or to allow the
Prosecution to continue asking on this transaction would be to stray from the facts in
issue.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Prosecutor Gonzales-REP. GONZALEZ. Yes, Your Honor.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. --you will now go into PLDT and what's the other
corporation?
MR. DAZA. Metro.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Metro.
REP. GONZALEZ. No, the testimony simply says that....
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Are these involved in any way in Article 3?
REP. GONZALEZ. In the matter of betrayal of public trust, in conflicts of interest, yes,
Your Honor.
MR. DAZA. But the allegations of the impeachment complaint do not even hint about
these transactions.
REP. GONZALEZ. But these will eventually be evidentiary matters which no less
than the Chief Justice mentioned as the factum probans.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. The factum probans and probandum earlier mentioned
by the Chief Justice related to BW. That was the only issue because the subject
matter of the order was the subpoena duces tecum regarding BW transactions and
manipulations of shares.
REP. GONZALEZ. But can this witness, Your Honor, not narrate what has happened
to him eventually which culminated to the pressures on BW? This was a pattern.
We're trying to build here the pattern.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Why don't you go directly to the pressures regarding
BW Resources to avoid these debates and then perhaps, later on, on the last portion,
you can take that up.
REP. GONZALEZ. Thank you, Mr. Chief Justice.
Mr. Witness, you testified early on that in the course of your chairmanship in the
Securities and Exchange Commission, you had occasions to talk to the President
either in person or by telephone. You remember that?
MR. YASAY. Yes, Your Honor, that is correct.
REP. GONZALEZ. In connection with BW Resource.... By the way, before that,
during your chairmanship of the Securities and Exchange Commission, do you
remember the BW Resource scandal?
MR. YASAY. Yes, Your Honor. I remember the BW Resource scandal.
REP. GONZALEZ. And in connection with that....
MR. DAZA. Mr. Chief Justice, I have no objection to the question except for the use
of the word "scandal". It assumes something that hasn't been proved.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. The witness had already answered the question.
REP. GONZALEZ. What does Counsel want to use as a term?
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Well, anyway, the Chair had made a ruling. Already
answered by the witness. You don't have to argue again on that. That could be the
subject matter of the cross-examination.
REP. GONZALES. Now, how many times have you talked to the President
personally?
MR. YASAY. I could not remember the number of times that I have talked to the
President personally, but I know that I have spoken with him several times, Your
Honor.
REP. GONZALEZ. Do you remember when for the first time did you talk to the
President personally and where?
MR. YASAY. Yes, Your Honor. I remember the first time and this was in....
REP. GONZALEZ. When?
MR. YASAY. This was sometime in February or March of 1999 soon after I got back
from my preventive suspension that was issued by the Office of the Ombudsman and
was nullified by the Supreme Court.
REP. GONZALEZ. Where did you meet the President?
MR. YASAY. I met the President in the Guest House of Malacañang Palace, Your
Honor.
REP. GONZALEZ. Can you tell us the circumstances of that meeting?
MR. YASAY. First, Your Honor, the meeting was arranged by a person by the name
of Jaime Dichaves and he picked me up in my office at about three o'clock in the
afternoon of that day and brought me to Malacañang Palace.
REP. GONZALEZ. It was Mr. Dichaves who brought you to Malacañang?
MR. YASAY. That is correct, Your Honor.
REP. GONZALEZ. And you said you were picked up by Mr. Dichaves from your
office at three o'clock in the afternoon?
MR. YASAY. That is correct, Your Honor.
REP. GONZALEZ. What time did you arrive in Malacañang?
MR. YASAY. Well, I was in Malacañang about shortly after, well, before four o'clock
in the afternoon, Your Honor.
REP. GONZALEZ. And were you able to meet with the President?
MR. YASAY. Yes, Your Honor. I was finally able to meet the President at about 6:30
or so in the evening of that day.
REP. GONZALES. In what particular place in Malacañang?
MR. YASAY. Again at the Ground Floor of the Guest House of the President, Your
Honor.
REP. GONZALEZ. Do you recall if there were any other persons at that Ground Floor
in the Guest House when you met with the President?
MR. YASAY. Yes, Your Honor. I recall.
REP. GONZALEZ. Who, if you remember?
MR. YASAY. There were only three persons including myself at that time: the
President, and Executive Secretary Ronaldo Zamora, Your Honor.
REP. GONZALEZ. And when you met with the President, what happened?
MR. YASAY. First, I told the President that I was thankful to him for the opportunity
he had given me to see him, and before I could speak any further, he looks at me
and said, "Kababalik mo lang sa SEC ni-reverse mo na kaagad iyong utos ko kay
Commissioner Gloria."
REP. GONZALEZ. What was that thing which the President mentioned which you
reversed?
MR. YASAY. The President told me that he gave Commissioner Gloria instructions to
change a previous decision of the Commission en banc with respect to a case known
as the China Chang Jiang case, Your Honor.
REP. GONZALEZ. By the way, where was Mr. Jaime Dichaves at this time?
MR. YASAY. Mr. Jaime Dichaves was not in that meeting. I don't know where he
went but he must have been somewhere around the Palace.
REP. GONZALEZ. Although according to you, he was the one who brought you
there?
MR. YASAY. That is correct, Your Honor.
REP. GONZALEZ. And what happened after the President mentioned that to you?
MR. YASAY. I told the President that I did not have any involvement in the China
Chang Jiang case when I got back from my preventive suspension. And as I recall, I
told him this was a case that the Commission en banc had already previously
decided upon even before my preventive suspension where a certain Catalino Tan
was declared a--was favored by that decision of the Commission en banc, Your
Honor.
REP. GONZALEZ. Anyway, do you know about this Chang Jiang case?
MR. DAZA. Objection, immaterial and irrelevant.
REP. GONZALEZ. If he knows and since he is narrating what the President told him
about, Your Honor.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Has it to do with the BW Resources again?
REP. GONZALEZ. Has something to do with the pressures which he has been
receiving. And the meat here....
MR. DAZA. Pressures not in relation to BW. It's another event, another case, just like
the PLDT shares.
REP. GONZALEZ. Precisely, the....
MR. DAZA. We shall be cluttering the records and transcript here with matters alien
to the charge.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. The Chair would have to....
REP. GONZALEZ. Your Honor, it will not clutter because the witness is merely
narrating events, facts which took place when the President saw him in Malacañang,
Your Honor. And precisely, we are trying to....
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. The Chair believed earlier that you had agreed already
to go to the pressures relating to BW Resources.
REP. GONZALEZ. But this is a build-up of all these things until it eventually reached
the BW, Your Honor. That's why he was called to Malacañang already. That's why
we went back to the calls, and he was brought to Malacañang to talk to the
President.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. So you mean you will relate this later on to BW?
REP. GONZALEZ. Yes, Your Honor.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Witness may answer.
REP. GONZALEZ. I was asking you: What is this Chang, this China Chang Jiang
case?
MR. YASAY. Oh, the China Chang Jiang case, Your Honor, is an intercorporate
dispute that was filed with the SEC involving a big power plant project in North Luzon
known as the Binga Power Plant Project.
REP. GONZALEZ. Do you know who were involved there?
MR. DAZA. Objection, immaterial and irrelevant. Now the last answer referred to a
project, a power project which is not at all--which is completely alien to the matter in
issue.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. It will really appear as irrelevant.
REP. GONZALEZ. May we make a tender of proof of this as allowed under Section
40 of Rule....
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Yes, you can have an offer of proof.
REP. GONZALEZ. The offer of proof, Your Honor, is that if this witness was made to
answer, he will say that: "involved in this China Chang Jiang case and Catalino Tan
is Guia Gomez."
May I proceed?
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. You may now proceed.
REP. GONZALEZ. Was there anything else that happened after your meeting with
the President, during your meeting with the President where you were brought there
by Mr. Jaime Dichaves?
MR. YASAY. Yes, Your Honor.
REP. GONZALEZ. What, if you remember?
MR. DAZA. Mr. Chief Justice, I am constrained to move to strike even the proffer
because it's evident that the proffer is to just mention a person who is not a party to
this case, against whom there is no imputation or allegation in the Impeachment
Complaint, but simply, Mr. Chief Justice, to be frank, to bring in a matter that would
be good for the front pages of the newspapers tomorrow.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Anyway, the offer of proof is not really an offer of
evidence.
SEN. ENRILE. Mr. Chief Justice.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. The honorable Senator Enrile.
SEN. ENRILE. We have been patiently listening to this colloquy. Evidently, there is
an effort to amend the Articles of Impeachment without a proper procedure. I think
that it is time that this matter will be brought to a halt. And so therefore I move that
this line of questioning be stopped. And I ask for a vote of this Chamber.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. There is a motion--
THE SENATE PRESIDENT. Mr. Chief Justice.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. The Senate President.
THE SENATE PRESIDENT. In any event, there is going to be a ruling expected on
this broad issue tomorrow. So, I would suggest, with the permission of Senator
Enrile, that we take this up tomorrow. And we are calling for a caucus tomorrow at
one o'clock in the afternoon at the Senate President's Conference Room to tackle,
among other things, this particular issue.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. That was, precisely, the reason why earlier the
Presiding Officer directed the Prosecutor to go directly to the matter of pressures
relating to BW Resources, because that was the principal offer made. If you have to
go to some other matters not directly connected with the BW, then the Presiding
Officer will have to yield to the suggestion of the Senate President regarding the
motion of the honorable Senator Enrile.
SEN. ENRILE. Mr. Chief Justice, I would like to explain my position as a member of
this Impeachment Court. If we are going to allow so many collateral matters to be
introduced into the record and we're getting far uphill, then where is the ... what are
the ultimate facts that we are discussing here and supporting with evidence? We do
not know anymore. At least, in my case, I don't know.
And so I would like to propose now. I'm making a motion that this kind of line of
questioning must be stopped. We cannot allow collateral matters unless there is a
close link with an ultimate fact alleged in the Articles of Impeachment.
REP. GONZALEZ. May I say something, Your Honor?
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Yes.
REP. GONZALEZ. Well, in the offer which I made at the start,
I mentioned about the pressures made to bear on Mr. Yasay. And I made mention
that he will testify on the sum totality of these pressures which he has been receiving,
not just on the BW actually. Because, as I said, as a matter of fact, in my last offer I
mentioned that this was part of the pattern in order for the President to control the
Securities and Exchange Commission, which eventually resulted in the pressures
affecting BW Resources. The witness is just narrating because this was all his
experience.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Even in the matter of the offer, you will notice that there
was an objection. So, the Chair had accommodated you little while, but definitely
instructed you just to proceed directly now on the alleged pressures related to BW
Resources.
REP. GONZALEZ. Your Honor, what we are trying to establish here is that this
pattern, even in the rule of pres inter alias act, I believe, this can be allowed.
THE SENATE PRESIDENT. Mr. Chief Justice.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Yes, the honorable Senate President.
THE SENATE PRESIDENT. I wish the Prosecutor would not press the issue because
I have already the consent of Senator Enrile that we should take this up tomorrow,
Mr. Chief Justice, at our caucus.
REP. GONZALEZ. We will submit, Your Honor.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. So, you can proceed on BW Resources.
REP. GONZALEZ. Mr. Witness, do you remember having met with the President
again towards the second week of April, 1999?
MR. YASAY. Yes, Your Honor, I remember.
REP. GONZALEZ. How did this take place? And what happened?
MR. YASAY. I remember the time in my office was about six o'clock in the evening
when I received the call from the President, Your Honor.
REP. GONZALEZ. What was the call all about?
MR. YASAY. The President told me, "Masyado ka atang seryoso dyan sa opisina
mo, bakit hindi mo ako pasyalan dito sa Malacañang?"
REP. GONZALEZ. And were you able to go to Malacañang as suggested by the
President?
MR. YASAY. I told the President, "Mr. President, kung gusto mo po, e ngayon ay
pupunta na ako doon."
REP. GONZALEZ. And what happened, did you go there?
MR. YASAY. The President told me na "Huwag ngayon. Pumunta ka na lang dito
bukas at about 7:30 in the evening."
REP. GONZALEZ. And that 7:30 in the evening of the next day, were you able to go
to Malacañang?
MR. YASAY. Yes, Your Honor, I was able to go to Malacañang and I was able to see
the President at that time.
REP. GONZALEZ. Where exactly?
MR. YASAY. Also at the Ground Floor of the Guest House of Malacañang Palace,
Your Honor.
REP. GONZALEZ. What happened during your meeting with the President at around
8:30 that night?
MR. YASAY. Well, as I entered the premises of the Guest House, Your Honor, the
President saw me and he approached me and directed me to a sofa and told me,
Your Honor, that there was one person that he would like to introduce me to who was
running a little late because of traffic.
REP. GONZALEZ. So, what did you do?
MR. YASAY. So, I waited on, Your Honor, as requested by the President.
REP. GONZALEZ. And what happened eventually?
MR. YASAY. At about 8:30, Your Honor, this person arrived whom the President
wanted me to meet.
REP. GONZALEZ. And who was this person, if you remember?
MR. YASAY. The person was Mr. Dante Tan, Your Honor.
REP. GONZALEZ. Will you tell the honorable Court how the President introduced Mr.
Dante Tan to you?
MR. YASAY. The President told me, "Chairman, ito si Dante Tan, matalik kong
kaibigan, matagal ko nang kaibigan ito, vice president pa lamang ako at marami
siyang itinulong sa akin. Kaya, gusto ko sana, kung puwede, tulungan mo siya."
REP. GONZALEZ. And what did you tell the President?
MR. YASAY. Well, I did not address my response to the President but rather to Mr.
Tan. I said, "Ano ba ang problema mo,
Mr. Tan?"
REP. GONZALEZ. And what did Mr. Tan say?
MR. YASAY. Well, instead of Mr. Tan responding at that time, the President instead
responded and said, "Alam mo, si Mr. Dante Tan ay tinutulungan tayo niyan para
makapagpasok dito sa ating bansa ng maraming foreign investors. Mayroon siyang
mga foreign investors na maraming tanong kung papaano sila makapagpapasok ng
pera dito sa ating bayan. Kung sana naman matulungan mo siya."
REP. GONZALEZ. And so, what did you answer the President?
MR. YASAY. I told the President, "Salamat naman po, Mr. President, na ikaw ay
nasa kalagitnaan ng mga efforts to invite foreign investors to come into the country.
And I certainly would have no problem helping Mr. Tan and his foreign investors
insofar as their questions are concerned." So I proposed to Mr. Tan if he could come
to the office of the SEC that coming Wednesday and bring along his foreign
investors.
REP. GONZALEZ. Did a meeting actually take place that coming Wednesday with
Mr. Tan and his investors?
MR. YASAY. Yes, Your Honor, it happened that Wednesday at about three o' clock in
the afternoon.
REP. GONZALEZ. Who were present at that meeting on the part of the Commission?
MR. YASAY. Well, I convened a special meeting of the Commission en banc and all
of the members of the Commission were present except for one. And I also invited in
that meeting the heads of the pertinent or relevant departments who may be able to
answer the questions of Mr. Tan and his foreign investors with respect to foreign
investment inflows into the country, like the head of the Money Market Operations
Department; the head of the Examiners and Appraisers Department; and the head of
the Corporate Legal Department, Your Honor.
REP. GONZALEZ. What about Mr. Tan, do you remember who were with him?
MR. YASAY. As I recall, Your Honor, Mr. Tan came along with two other individuals,
one who appeared to be his assistant, and the other being a female Singaporean
lawyer who, according to Mr. Tan, represented the interest of foreign investors, Your
Honor.
REP. GONZALEZ. Let me go back briefly. By the way, so how did that meeting with
Mr. Tan, the Singaporean lady lawyer and the members of the Commission go?
MR. YASAY. It went fine, Your Honor. They were basically and principally interested
in the matter of backdoor listing; how the foreign investors would be able to come to
that route, and our technical staff who were present there at that time were able to
answer their questions, Your Honor.
REP. GONZALEZ. Let me go back briefly to your second meeting with the President
when he called you and introduced Mr. Dante Tan. Do you recall, more or less, what
the President's words were when he introduced Dante Tan to you?
MR. YASAY. Well, as I said earlier, Your Honor, the President said, "Matagal ko
nang kaibigan itong si Dante Tan. Talagang maraming itinulong ito sa akin. Sana
matulungan mo siya."
REP GONZALEZ. During that entire meeting with the President when he introduced
Mr. Dante Tan to you, can you please tell us
how many times the President repeat the instructions to you to help
Dante Tan?
MR. DAZA. Objection, already answered. And besides that would be immaterial. If
the purpose is to show that they are friends.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. The question this time is, how many times the
instructions were given?
REP. GONZALEZ. Yes, Mr. Chief Justice.
MR. DAZA. No, the question...
REP. GONZALEZ. During that meeting.
MR. DAZA. Sandali. The question...
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Let's clarify the point.
MR. DAZA. The question is, how many times did the President say that Dante Tan
and he are friends and that he would like Dante Tan to be helped? This was in the
context of the foreign investors.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. There had been answers already to the previous
questions regarding instructions.
REP. GONZALEZ. Not yet, Your Honor.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. None yet?
REP. GONZALEZ. None yet, Your Honor.
MR. DAZA. There is...There is a...
REP. GONZALEZ. The only instruction previously was that when he introduced
Dante Tan he told the witness that: "Mr. Dante Tan is my friend; he has helped me
many times; and I want you to help him."
My question now, Your Honor, please is that during the entire meeting that night
when Mr. Dante Tan was introduced to the witness, if he can remember how many
times the President repeat, if he did, the instructions to help Dante Tan because this
will show the intensity of the instructions.
MR. DAZA. To save time because I think we are nearing a closing hour, I will just
withdraw the objection. Probably, the thrust of the question is to establish what the
Prosecutor describes the intensity of the request, whatever that means.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Having been withdrawn, the question may now be
answered by the witness.
MR. YASAY. As far as I can recall, Your Honor, the President told me at least three
times to help Mr. Dante Tan.
REP. GONZALEZ. After this meeting, Mr. Chairman, and followed by a meeting with
Mr. Dante Tan and the lady lawyer from Singapore and other members of the
Commission, Do you remember anything unusual or significant in relation to Dante
Tan which happened shortly thereafter?
MR. YASAY. Yes, Your Honor.
REP. GONZALEZ. What was that?
MR. YASAY. I remember that sometime in June, Mr. Dante Tan came back to my
office and he arrived there without any appointment at about four o'clock in the
afternoon of that day.
REP. GONZALEZ. And do you know why he went to see you without any
appointment in your office that day?
MR. YASAY. Excuse me, Your Honor.
REP. GONZALEZ. You stated that Mr. Dante Tan went to your office without any
appointment. Do you know why he went to your office without any appointment?
MR. YASAY. Yes, Your Honor. He told me that...Well, actually he was agitated. He
was complaining why I had sent a team of investigators from the SEC to his office,
inquiring into the books and records of BW Resources, Your Honor.
REP. GONZALEZ. And what did you tell Mr. Dante Tan?
MR. YASAY. I told Mr. Dante Tan: "Bakit, ano ba ang problema mo doon?"
REP. GONZALEZ. And what did he say?
MR. YASAY. He said: "Alam ninyo Chairman, wala naman akong itinatago, wala
naman akong ginagawang masama. Lahat ng ginagawa ko ay aboveboard. Bakit
naman ako iimbestigahan ng ganito?"
REP. GONZALEZ. Do you know why your auditors were making that investigation?
MR. YASAY. Well, I learned later on that the reason why the auditors were making
the investigation was because at that time the price of BW stocks had, without any
explanation, been going up. And they wanted to find out any reason why these
stocks were moving in that direction fast.
REP. GONZALEZ. And so what did you tell Dante Tan about this?
MR. YASAY. I told Mr. Dante Tan: "Mr. Tan, alam ninyo po ay utos ng Presidente sa
akin na tutulungan kita. Pero hindi kita matutulungan kung ipahamak mo si
Pangulong Estrada. Kung sinabi mong wala ka namang itinatago at wala namang
masama na ginagawa mo, ano ang masama kung payagan mo ang mga auditors na
mag-inspect sa books on records mo? Kasi kung wala kang ginagawang masama, di
mas maganda pa iyan para sa iyo."
REP. GONZALEZ. And what was the reaction or the answer of Mr. Dante Tan?
MR. YASAY. After I said that to him, he agreed. And shortly thereafter, he left, Your
Honor.
REP. GONZALEZ. Mr. Yasay, you have been chairman of the SEC, according to
you, since about 1995. Is that correct?
MR. YASAY. That is correct, Your Honor.
REP. GONZALEZ. During the time when you were one of the commissioners and
later on as chairman since 1995, can you please tell this Impeachment Court if you
have ever been called by the President and given instructions or orders to help a
very close friend?
MR. DAZA. Objection. Leading.
REP. GONZALEZ. I do not think that is leading, Your Honor.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Do you recall...is the question?
MR. DAZA. No, no, no.
REP. GONZALEZ. Do you recall if he has ever been called?
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Answer. Objection overruled.
MR. YASAY. I do not recall, Your Honor, having been called upon by former
President Ramos in that same manner. I do recall that it was only President Estrada
who has called me in that respect.
REP. GONZALEZ. You have earlier, in your testimony, told us...
THE MAJORITY LEADER. Mr. Chief Justice.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. With the permission of the two gentlemen, what is the...
THE MAJORITY LEADER. With the permission of the parties, it is now 8:01. We may
wish to continue this tomorrow. I move to suspend...
THE SENATE PRESIDENT. Excuse me. There are certain announcements still to be
made and with the permission of the Majority Leader.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Before we adjourn, there are some motions and other
pleadings which should be acted upon before we adjourn:
1. The proposed stipulation of facts to President Joseph Ejercito Estrada through the
Defense Panel filed by the Prosecution Panel on 10 January 2001.
This ought not to be included, as a matter of fact, in the agenda because this is
addressed to the Defense. So, since this is in the agenda, it should only be noted.
2. Manifestation clarifying that Mr. Edgar Espiritu earlier made in an urgent ex-parte
request for the issuance of a subpoena duces tecum is actually Mr. Edgardo Espiritu,
the former Secretary of Finance, filed by the Prosecution Panel on 10 January 2001.
Simply noted. Noted.
3. Motion to Require Attorneys Sigfrid Fortun, Raymund Parcipal Fortun and Alfredo
Villamor to show cause why they should not be punished for contempt filed by
Senator-Judges Franklin M. Drilon, Rodolfo G. Biazon, and Renato L. Compañero
Cayetano on 10 January 2001.
The respondents are required to comment thereon within a nonextendible period of
five (5) days.
Finally, there is an urgent motion for the issuance of hold departure order against Ms.
Laarni Enriquez and Mr. Benjamin Hughes filed by the Prosecution Panel on 10
January 2001.
REP. GONZALEZ. Mr. Chief Justice, in connection with Laarni Enriquez, we
understand that she left this morning because the...
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Subpoenas have been issued on the two actually.
REP. GONZALEZ. Yes, Your Honor, but the hold departure order, I think, was
refused last night.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. What do you mean by "the hold departure order was
refused last night"?
REP. GONZALEZ. That is what we understand, Your Honor.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. What time was it filed? It is only included right now.
REP. GONZALEZ. I mean, the subpoena, Your Honor.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Yes. Do not say that it was last night.
REP. GONZALEZ. I apologize for that. I thought the information to me
was...because...
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. That would reflect on the integrity of the Court. It is
misleading to state that a hold departure order was withheld by the Court. It was only
filed yesterday.
REP. GONZALEZ. No, no. I did not say the Court. What I understood, Your Honor...
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. That was the effect, because a hold departure order
can only be issued by the Court.
REP. GONZALEZ. What I understood, Your Honor, was that in the airport, it was
refused.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. There was no hold departure order issued yesterday.
REP. GONZALEZ. That's why I apologize for that. I'm now referring to the subpoena.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. So be very candid to the Court because, imagine, with
that kind of manifestation--we are heard by everybody, by the entire nation and then
you are blaming the court for holding on to a hold departure order, which was not
even issued yet because the request was done only yesterday and it is only now that
it is included in the calendar.
REP. GONZALEZ. I never blamed the court, Your Honor. I was informed earlier
today something along that direction and because she was able to leave already, and
I heard, Your Honor, mentioned.....
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Yes, and probably, you owe an apology to the court.
REP. GONZALEZ. That's why I said, I'm sorry that....
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Yes, thank you very much for the apology.
Anyway, the urgent motion is granted.
THE SENATE PRESIDENT. Mr. Chief Justice.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. The Senate President.
THE SENATE PRESIDENT. Representative Joker Arroyo.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. The honorable Prosecutor Arroyo.
REP. ARROYO. Since Laarni Enriquez has left, there's nothing more that we can do
about it. Meaning, the hold departure order can no longer be enforced. But there's
one other person that we are....
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Yes, Benjamin Hughes.
REP. ARROYO. Thank you very much, Mr. Chief Justice.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. We grant the motion for hold departure only as against
the second. But make it of record that the court had issued the subpoena to these
two yesterday yet.
REP. ARROYO. That's correct, Mr. Chief Justice.
THE SENATE PRESIDENT. Mr. Chief Justice, may I make some announcements.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. The honorable Senate President.
THE SENATE PRESIDENT. May I reiterate the announcement earlier made that at
one o'clock tomorrow afternoon, the Senate Impeachment Court members will
convene at the conference room of the Senate President to discuss very urgent
matters, and I enjoin all of you to be present.
Then No. 2, Mr. Chief Justice, I received this letter dated January 10 today, from the
law office of Poblador, Bautista and Reyes. And this is a very short letter which I
would like to read into the records:
The Honorable Aquilino Pimentel
President of the Senate
Re: Senate Impeachment Proceedings
Your Honor, as ordered by the Impeachment Court at the hearing on January 2,
2001, and on behalf of Equitable PCI Bank, we send you herewith:
1) One original copy of a Secretary's Certificate dated January 3, 2001 executed by
Atty. Nilo T. Divina, Corporate Secretary of Equitable PCI Bank, certifying to certain
Board resolutions adopted and approved by the Board at its special meeting on
December 19, 2000; and
2) One photocopy each of the implementation documents relative to the transfer of
P500 million from the Jose Velarde account with the bank to the Jose Velarde
Investment Management Account with the Trust Division, Equitable PCI, to wit:
1) Savings Account withdrawal form of P500 million dated February 4, 2000. No
signature of Jose Velarde with handwritten note signature of client to follow;
2) Saving Account withdrawal form of P500 million dated February 4, 2000 with the
signature of Jose Velarde; and
3) Credit Cashier's Check form dated February 4, 2000 for the amount of P500
million.
We apologize for not having sent these documents earlier. They were forwarded to
us by the bank only yesterday.
Very truly yours,
Poblador, Bautista and Reyes
The attachments, Mr. Chief Justice, are the following: Secretary's Certificate dated 3
January 2001 signed by Nilo T. Divina, the Board Corporate Secretary;
And the other attachment, the other annex is a photocopy of the Savings Account
withdrawal from the account name of Jose Velarde in the amount of P500 million with
no signature of the client;
And the second photocopy is a Savings Account withdrawal of Jose Velarde for P500
million where the signature Jose Velarde now appears;
And the third attachment or annex, Mr. Chief Justice, is a Credit Cashier's Check,
photocopy of the Credit Cashier's Check dated February 4, 2000 in the amount of
P500 million.
I turn this over, Mr. Chief Justice, to our Secretary.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Let the documents be turned over to the Secretary.
REP.APOSTOL. Mr. Chief Justice, may I be allowed to say something?
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Prosecutor Apostol.
REP. APOSTOL. We have one witness now here, Mrs. Carolina Guerrero, the
Branch Manager of Philippine Savings Bank, Murphy Branch. May we pray that she
be instructed to come back tomorrow together with the documents that she is
bringing.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. For the information of the Prosecution, if it still could
remember, many had been issued subpoenas testificandum as well as subpoena
testificandum et duces tecum for the hearing today. You have Sister Christine Tan,
Atty. Ulpiano Sarmiento, the records custodian, Office of the Executive Secretary of
the Office of the President, well, of course, former Justice Cecilia Muñoz-Palma, who
had written a letter. The records custodian, Office of the President; records
custodian, Presidential Management Staff; then you have Romualdo Quiñones of the
PCSO; the Board Secretary Record Custodian; PCSO, Edgardo Espiritu had
testified; then Carolina Guerrero. All of them are here? Prosecutor Tañada?
REP. TAÑADA. Mr. Chief Justice, insofar as those who were subpoenaed to testify
on the PCSO case, they were here this afternoon and they are still here.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. So they will be directed to come back tomorrow?
REP. TAÑADA. May we request such an order from Your Honor.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. So not only Carolina Guerrero? All those mentioned?
REP. TAÑADA. Yes, Atty. Ulan Sarmiento, Mr. Romualdo Quiñones, Mrs. Amelia
Tansinsin and Ms. Aurora Aquino. Sister Christine Tan had ..
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. All of them would only be bringing documents, isn't it?
REP. TAÑADA. Yes, Your Honor, they brought them this morning..
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. So why cannot the parties meet in the morning to
stipulate? There are so many of them. It will take a lot of our time the whole
afternoon. And remember that the Prosecution has assured the Court that it will finish
the presentation of its evidence by l9 January. So the Court strongly suggests that
the parties should cooperate in this regard. These are all matters which could really
be stipulated upon. These are all documents. Imagine if we have to listen to the
testimony of eight tomorrow just for this.
REP. TAÑADA. We'll be here tomorrow morning at 9:00 o'clock, Your Honor.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Yes, and not only that, I hope that you can also
stipulate on this during the time of the marking… premarkings.
REP. TAÑADA. Well, we hope that the Defense panel will be able to accept our
proposed stipulations.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. These are all documents. Copies of the request for the
issuance of subpoena duces tecum clearly indicated the documents. And I don't think
the Defense, if you are ready to admit certain of the documents... certain groups of
documents better yet, that you stipulate and submit it in the afternoon, and dispense
with the testimony of many of them.
MR. DAZA. We would invite the Prosecution to give us a written proposal for
stipulation and we would consider that seriously.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Yes, I think the written proposal from the Prosecution
would be the first initial effective move.
REP. TAÑADA. We will be ready with that tomorrow morning, Your Honor.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. This is just the request of the Court because otherwise,
the Prosecution will not be able to finish the presentation of its evidence as promised
on l9 January.
MR. DAZA. Mr. Chief Justice, we would just want to request the Prosecution that
when we stipulate, the witnesses need not testify because we have had our
experiences before, we stipulate and then insists on presenting testimony in spite of
the stipulation.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. That's the main problem that the Court had observed.
The offer to stipulate would only be made here when it should have been made
outside the Court, and just to submit to the Court what had been stipulated upon.
MR. DAZA. Mr. Chief Justice, in the interest of orderly procedure, and so that we can
prepare for the cross-examination of witnesses that have already testified, may we
know from the Prosecution, in regard to their intentions with respect to the witnesses,
Anton Prieto, Yolanda Ricaforte, and Carmencita Itchon.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. The subpoenas were issued to them. Because motu
proprio, the Court had to issue the subpoena. Because Prosecutor Apostol did not
pursue the earlier promise that a request be made for these witnesses to come.
Because it is only when they are here when the matter of their being declared as
their witness may be taken up.
REP. APOSTOL. We are very thankful for the action of the Chief Justice.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. The Court had to consider that. Because the Court is
interested in having all these witnesses for the Prosecution examine and crossexamined on the promised date of the completion of your testimony.
REP. APOSTOL. Yes, Your Honor.
MR. DAZA. When would the Prosecution then present these three witnesses so that
we would not have to be logging our files and any study for cross-examination?
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Insofar as...
MR. DAZA. Of the three witnesses, Yolanda Ricarforte-THE PRESIDING OFFICER. These witnesses?
MR. DAZA. --Anton Prieto and Carmencita Itchon.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Just be ready at any time.
MR. DAZA. No. The Prosecution-- I would like to know as to when they plan to
present these witnesses.
MR. APOSTOL. I confirm the statement of the Chief Justice-- just be ready at any
time.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. I mean, let's consider all these things with some degree
of seriousness when it comes to your agreement in the matter of the completion of
your evidence.
REP. APOSTOL. The subpoena is for Tuesday.
MR. DAZA. For Tuesday? Very well, for Tuesday.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. The Majority Leader.
THE MAJORITY LEADER. Mr. Chief Justice, before we adjourn, perhaps we can
excuse the witness with the instruction to return tomorrow.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. The witness is excused but is directed to come back
tomorrow for the continuation of his testimony. And the other witnesses who are
around and had been subpoenaed to appear this afternoon are also directed to come
back tomorrow.
REP. GONZALES. Mr. Chief Justice, we are leaving the exhibits with the Secretary.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Leave the exhibits to be testified on by Mr. Yasay?
Mr. Secretary, these exhibits are with you now.
Atty. Yap.
MR. YAP. Yes, Sir.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Okay, thank you.
Prosecutor Arroyo.
REP. ARROYO. Mr. Chief Justice, would it be possible that an advance telephone
call could be made by the Secretary to whoever is the Immigration official in the
airport? Because our experience with Laarni is like this: From the report of the
Secretary, the serving officers went to her house in Wack Wack at 9:00, and they
gave them the runaround. And the servers were not able to serve it. And they left
about 9:20 in the evening last night with the subpoena unserved. And Ms. Laarni
Enriquez left on the 7:40 flight early this morning, perhaps aware of the subpoena.
So, I wonder whether in the case of Ben Hughes, there could be an advance
telephone call by the Secretary.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. The Secretary is directed to make the telephone call or
to use any other fast means of communication to reach Benjamin Hughes to tell him
that a hold order has been issued by the Court.
REP. ARROYO. Thank you very much.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Yes, Attorney Daza, do you have anything to say?
MR. DAZA. I'm just standing here waiting for the proper motion from the Majority
Leader.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Will you second that motion?
MR. DAZA. Certainly, Mr. Chief Justice.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. The Majority Leader.
SUSPENSION OF TRIAL
THE MAJORITY LEADER. I now move that the Impeachment Court stand in recess
until 2:00 tomorrow afternoon, Friday, January 12, 2001.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. No objection? [Silence] There being none, the trial is
suspended until tomorrow at 2:00 in the afternoon and the caucus will be at 1:00.
It was 8:20 p.m.
THE TRIAL WAS SUSPENDED AT 8:20 P.M.