Good Girl vs. Bad Girl & Tough Guy vs. Sweet Guy:
Perceptions of Young People on How Traditional
Gender Roles Still Affect Relationship Choices and
Pleasure
Research carried out by Betsy Crane & Kathryn
Thompson, Indiana University of Pennsylvania, & Jesse
Crane-Seeber, American University
Presented by Betsy Crane at SSSS Western Region
Conference, Redondo Beach, CA, April 8, 2006;
bcrane@iup.edu
Purpose of research
• Qualitative study of perceptions of young
people in their early-mid 20s related to
traditional & non-traditional gender roles,
sexual identities, relationships, & pleasure.
• In what ways do constructs such as the
“good girl” and “tough guy” have meaning
in their lives & relationships?
• How do these roles and identities constrain
or define gendered sexual identities &
experiences?
Gender/Sexual identity
• Gender as social construct; as performance
(Butler, 1993;
• Gender & sexual identities under flux; exist on
continuum. Young people are pioneers. (SavinWilliams, 2005)
• Nuances of patriarchal domination; feminist
study of masculinities (e.g. Connell, 1995)
• Multicultural matrices of domination (Hill
Collins, 1990)
• “Gender may be fragmenting but it still
permeates the structure of social order”
(Lorbeer, 2005, p. xii).
Four Boxes of Gendered Sexuality
(Crane & Crane-Seeber, 2003)
Good Girl:
Wife/Mother
Bad Girl:
Whore/Dyke
Tough Guy:
Protector/Dom
inator
Sweet Guy:
Fag/Sissy
Heritage of 6,000+ year history:
Male social and political domination led
to norms based on:
•Acceptance of the social order by
males & females
•Dominating social & sexual behavior
by males
•Repression of females, the feminine,
& homosexuality.
•Disciplining of masculinity
Expectations for women and men:
• Tug and pull between security/ social
acceptability vs. personal authenticity.
• Heteronormativity - Marriage and roles
of wife and husband still carry heavy
symbolic weight.
• Legacy of traditional gender roles
affects daily life, & people in same and
other-gender relationships.
Student-led focus group discussions
• Focus group discussions led by
Thompson, undergraduate psychology
student at IUP, & Crane-Seeber, IR
doctoral student at American University.
• Thus far (ongoing project) three groups
with 14 participants + 2 participantresearchers
• 2 groups at a college in rural western
Pennsylvania, 1 group in Washington, DC.
Purposeful sampling
• Information-rich cases
• Young people who were familiar with
this theory, having heard class
presentation and/or read article;
sophisticated about gender/sexuality.
• Ages 20-28; median age 23
• Ethnicity – white/European heritage;
additional data collection will include
other races/ethnicities
Context and Sample:
• 2/3 focus groups in western PA: No nudity in
women’s sauna; very Christian, but “hookups”/casual sex becoming more common.
• Voluntary sample of those who had taken
Sociology of Sexuality class or read article;
relatively sophisticated about sexuality and
gender theory.
• As one said: “I think that the ways in which
the social guidelines tell us the way that we
should be, and should not be, with gender
and with sexuality, are incredibly mindboggling.”
Demographics/Open-coding
Gender identity: Female (8); Queer (1);
Neutral (1); Male (4)
Sexual identity: Hetero/straight (2);
Hetero, open, bi-curious (3); Queer (4);
Lesbian or gay (2); Bi-sexual (2)
Socio-Economic Class – Raised poor or
working class (4); lower middle class
(3); middle class (5); upper class (1)
Inductive findings
• Fluidity around gender/sexual identity.
• Awareness of & resistance to traditional expectations
and heterosexual imperative. For those in same-sex
relationships, traditional roles are a backdrop, but are
“making it up as we go along.”
• Males feeling more confined by traditional roles; less
support for change.
• Women - 3rd-wavy, “post-modern feminists” still
oriented toward the protector-dominator “tough guys.”
• May have sex with tough guys, but don’t trust them;
Difficulty initiating sex with sweet guys.
• May not trust the sweet guys; see them as reverting
to tough guy.
• Another thinks “sweet guys are really sexy.”
Gender/Sexual Identities: Flexible
Categories
M -“I sort of jump back & forth between
perceived genders.”
F- As far as gender, I have such a mixture of
traditionally feminine and masculine traits
that I don’t even bother trying to identify
them anymore. I only identify with people
who also seem to have that mix.
F- “I hate labels. I’d rather be curvy than
straight any day.”
M - I try to, especially around males that I
don’t know, I try to put on—I do the
tough guy thing. I compete with other
males, and I work on muscles, I play
aggressive sports, and I like to win
arguments. I’m sort of a dominant
personality, in that case.
But when it really comes down to it, I’m
more of a sweet guy or a nice guy. So
depending on who I interact with, I
display either of those roles.
F -“I definitely identify my gender as queer,
because I feel like I can dress in a t-shirt and
khaki pants and cargo pants and boy tennis
shoes. I think the only article of clothing I
have to buy in the female section at this point
that I’m wearing is my bra. ‘Cause they just
don’t make good male bras, y’know?”
F – “I’ve always been very feminine, I never
went through the tomboy phase. It was very
hard for me when I was getting older,
because my parents just said “Don’t have sex
until you’re married, it’s bad, la la la.” And so
I didn’t know how to handle myself.”
M -“I identify as a man, but I guess if it would
fit into boxes I’d be more of a female. I can
relate more, I can talk more to girls about
cosmetics and appearance than guys. As for
sexuality, I’m just a sexual person who has
an attraction more towards females. But, I
mean, I’ve never ruled out a man, I just
haven’t found one. “
M - Tell me about it. I’ve just been attracted to
females, but I’m not going to turn down a
man, if I like him. That’s pretty much where
I see myself—not as gay, not as straight, as
bisexual but just attracted to people.
Sexual Identity:
F -“I identify as a woman, a sexual woman –
bisexual is too limiting.”
F -“I used to identify as lesbian but now I’m
just queer – even lesbian is too
constricting. There might be a some cool
feminist guys out there that might be
alright to be with.”
Being queer- not having to specify
F- I would identify as queer because it’s like too much
pressure to try to figure everything out. You know
what I mean? Like “I don’t really know, because I
think I’m gay but sometimes I like guys.” It’s like
way too much pressure, so I just like queer, because
then it doesn’t matter, whatever happens is fine.
That’s really nice to know.
And mostly I find I’m attracted to people who are
ambiguously gendered anyway, which makes that
even weirder to try to figure out because I’m like,
“well I like boys, but only boys that are really girly”
(laughter) and so it’s really hard to figure out. I think
queer is just good.
Queer; multiple meanings
F- I just think that queer is—it’s a good word for being
able to do whatever you like and having the mobility
to do whatever you like.
F- When I came out, queer theory was not something I
had even heard of, and it’s so encompassing now, allencompassing, just everything that you want to be
that’s not traditionally heterosexual. That’s something
that even I haven’t gotten into myself, to identify
myself as queer because I do identify myself as, “Yeah,
I’m gay, I’m queer.” But I don’t like males…I just
don’t. I don’t want really anything to do with them. I
mean, yeah, I like talking with my friends…I don’t
hate males, its just…
Perceptions of changes:
F – “It’s more expected now for women to
have careers, and to be sexual. Although I
see there’s still a lot of double standards,
women being called ‘whores,’ but that’s
another issue.”
M – “It seems like men are starting to be
allowed to express their sexuality more.
When I say ‘express their sexuality more,’
I mean be honest with it, and authentic.
Like, they’re allowed to wear tighter,
more revealing clothing.”
Greater acceptance of gay/queer
F- People are starting to become more aware of it programs in schools and conferences and
everything supporting gay rights, queer rights. I
do think it is getting better.
M - As society becomes more open to it—well, not
necessarily ours, but the world society as a
whole, then more and more people will have
experience with it and they’ll realize that it’s not
the social “other” that we’ve been fed all of our
lives. It’s so refreshing once you can see people
come to that. It really is.
Perceptions of changes, cont.
F -“Things are getting better in that people
are coming out and being themselves,
which opens the road for other people to
be like ‘Okay, maybe I can come out and
be myself.’
But I feel that our social institutions,
especially the media, are just pushing
‘hetero hetero hetero’ - stay in your boxes,
and if you don’t, we’re just gonna hate
you.”
Perception of Backlash
F- I think that things are on the upswing,
but I’m thinking there is a big backlash
now because it’s such a… a cultural
change going on, in this country
anyway…where people are all of a
sudden becoming less tolerant, and
they’re trying to pass laws to prevent
(gay marriage).
Traditional norms/expectations:
F –”This is coming from growing up in a very religious
household, but not necessarily living that lifestyle.
And also from my peers and the world in general.
Women are still looked at—the women in the bad
girl category are still looked upon as whores, even
with all the changes women are experiencing…I have
lots of male friends, especially from when I was
growing up, I had a lot of male friends, and just the
way they talk about women, women they see at bars,
it’s like “Oh yeah, she’s a slut,” I can’t even think of
some of the words they used.”
F- “So many people who I consider to be
educated, open minded, empowered, and
then—something will occur, and they just
totally go immediately to an essentialist
perspective, oh ‘Boys will be boys.’ What
the hell does that mean? ‘Boys will be—’
What? Bullies? Boys will be mean?
They’ll beat up on other guys.”
M – “They’ll be rapists.”
Heteronormative expectations
F- “I recently told my mother that I was
bisexual on Easter…you know, you say it
with the ham, and it’s good. And she
freaked out, and I told her, “Well, you do
realize this means I still like men,” and
she’s like “Oh, good.” Like it was calming
her...‘cause she was picturing my future
and getting married and having kids and
all of that, she was seeing that whole line
laid out in front of me and all of a sudden
I just like cut the line, and she freaked
out.”
F- “A lot of people that I know, even people that
consider themselves pretty open in many different
ways, still aspire to get married with one person, buy
a townhouse, and settle down and live that lifestyle
forever. I definitely think that our traditional gender
roles still very much affect a lot of what we do.
But for myself, now that I’ve been more interested in
this issue, I consciously try to break down those
gender stereotypes, where I can. Just sort of not think
about how I need to act because I’m a woman, but
rather just try to think of how I ought to act based on
what I want to do and who I am.”
F – “I think a lot of young women are hesitant
to initiate sex, especially in a straight
relationship. And I can certainly say that from
my own experience. I felt that at age 20 I
would be empowered enough not to be that
way, but I think if I’m honest about myself
it’s something that consciously, initially, I
wasn’t aware of, but it still happens.”
Effects of traditional roles
F – “Girls are encouraged more to be
independent, but it’s at a price. If you are
independent, then you’re not going to get boys to
like you, at all, ever. I mean, you’re not going to
get the traditional role guys to like you, which,
there are lots of guys like that out there.
That’s really hard, because girls are encouraged
to go out and be their own people and have
confidence and do all this stuff, but then in the
end, if they do that, they also feel this need to
have boyfriends, and then they can’t, because
they can’t find guys that will like them when
they’re being really independent.”
Heterosexual imperative as trap;
limit
F- “So I have to find a man, get married,
have kids – in one word, ‘straight.’ It just
feels like my whole life is dictated from
here on out for the next 50 years and if I
don’t follow all the rules, all the proper
steps, then I’m not ‘really’ straight
anyway, so I just go ahead and skip the
label, then I don’t have to have all that
pressure.”
F -“A lot of times, girls are dating those
assholes, not even because they are
attracted to them. I think they feel like
that’s what they are supposed to do.”
M – “I definitely started to date way
before I was ready for it, and never had
a real relationship until college. It was
just because that’s what I thought I was
supposed to do.”
Effects on F-M relationships
F- “I’m oriented towards men, but it’s really hard for me to find
a guy I can relate to because I think that more guys are in
“the boxes” than girls, and I just can’t stand people that
don’t have both feminine and masculine traits.”
F- “I wonder to myself whether my fear of being in
relationships, other than my fear of being hurt
personally, was also related to the fact that a lot of guys
I knew were trying to be tough guys. And that’s not at
all what I wanted. It was hard to find sweet guys,
because often they wouldn’t be as aggressive as tough
guys. And they wouldn’t approach me, and I was
dealing with my own sort of ‘Well, I’m supposed to be
a good girl, so I shouldn’t be initiating too much, or
being too aggressive’.”
Females - More flexible gender
roles/performance.
F - “I think there’s a lot more room for women
to do whatever their little heart desires,
around gender, than there is for men.
Women aren’t as important. Masculinitywhat it is to be male - is so crucial, that if you
step out of it a little bit you are labeled. I
really feel like there’s a lot more lifethreatening consequences for stepping
outside of the what’s socially proscribed to be
a man than there are for being a female.
Being “girly”
Gender-wise…in a lot of ways I’m traditionally feminine,
like I dress really girly and I like to do crafts and knit and
crochet. I don’t like to do those things because they’re
traditionally feminine, like a lot of girls who get into those
things, but I feel like there’s sort of like all these girls that
are reclaiming really girly things in a cool kind of notreally-feminine way; that’s more how I do it. Even that I
choose to dress really feminine now—I haven’t always, and
it wasn’t like I was taught to dress really feminine, but as I
grew up I was like “I really like skirts, they’re the best
thing to wear ever, they’re so comfortable.” I like bright
colors, and so that’s how I got into that, not necessarily
because it was what I was supposed to do. So I guess I
ended up kind of girly, but not because I have to be real
traditional and there are lots of other things about me that I
like that are not really feminine at all.
M – “A counter-movement that’s going on, that’s pushing against
gender freedom. From what I see on campus? Yeah. I live
juxtaposed to frat row so I see the entire hyper masculine
lifestyle that goes on, the whole “gotta do a kegstand, and get
as drunk as I can, and then I gotta see how many of these girls
I can drag up to my room before they’re all gone,” kind of an
idea.
I think that’s getting more and more restrictive for people. In
some cases. I think it’s going off in both directions, it’s
becoming a dichotomy. It’s either completely restrictive or
completely free, I guess... Because I can either get one of those
“What are you?” kind of looks from walking around in my
normal clothes and my hair down, or I can get sort of “I’m
glad you’re here,” reactions. I don’t see much of a middle
ground.
As far as the masculine roles, the concept of masculine roles—I
do think that we’re losing middle ground, and we’re going
towards extremes.”
Pleasure: Gendered challenges
F-“It’s exceedingly difficult for males to experience
pleasure emotionally, whereas physically it’s almost
automatic, in the biological sense.
And for females, we are supposed to focus on the
emotional aspects, feel connected and intimate with our
partner, or forget about an orgasm; once every six
months and you’re having sex every day.
If you have the typical, hegemonically masculine male,
the one who’s just there for the sex and for the
orgasm…I think it’s detrimental to both parties; it’s not
fair to women and it’s not fair to men. Until you look at
it holistically - as an intimacy and a mutual pleasure
kind of thing - nobody’s really going to be happy.
F- “I personally don’t really believe that you
can have a truly profoundly pleasurable
sexual experience unless you are really
okay with who you are and you’re really
connecting with another person that you
can really connect with. So that becomes
essential, because if both of you are just
trying to put on this character all the time,
and trying to make that go together, it’s
never going to work out. It’s never really
going to be that great.
F (cont.) I have a pretty sad view of men’s
pleasure; I think a lot of times men must have
bad sex a lot, all the time, always, because
they can’t feel anything, and they can’t really
feel pleasure. I just imagine, it must be
terrible.”
M- “And not being allowed to cry.”
F- “And not being able to know, even know
how to even begin to approach pleasure, to
understand how it feels to be touched.”
F: “And not allowed to truly connect with their
partners. It’s something that I’ve experienced,
and I’m like, “Oh my God, are you HERE? What
the hell?” We’re trying to be close here, and you
seem like you’re off in some far-distant land.
It’s so sad, and I think that the “tough guy” is
sort of what makes that happen; that men feel
like they can’t be connected to their bodies. They
feel like they have to be removed and they can’t
show emotion. How is pleasure ever going to
happen if you can’t be in touch with yourself in
any way?”
M – “It doesn’t. Until you can give all that bullshit
up, it doesn’t.”
F- I think obviously there’s a degree of that with
women, too, but I think women are told more
to be in touch with themselves, and their
sensuality. To some extent, though, because
we are allowed to…
F - Women are allowed to be more sensual. Men
can’t even enjoy sex. Women at least are
allowed to enjoy kissing and caressing and
things like that.
M - Have you ever touched a boy’s nipples?
They freak out. But it’s such a sensual part of
the body, and my God…you should….oh,
wow. I don’t know what to say. (lots of
laughing).
Differences with women
F- A lot of that is based on male-female sex. (In lesbian sex)
orgasms happen all the time. It’s not just the male getting
off, and being like “See you later, I’m done!” That’s just not
how it is. For females sleeping with females, the pleasure is
definitely something, to me at least, that can be heightened
for both partners. They both can have multiple orgasms—or
whoever may be participating. I think that it’s completely
different.
F - I love being with women, because I’m there, here, on their
emotional level. I’ve never really found that with a guy. I
don’t know if it’s just me, because they’re not in touch with
their emotions, but that’s what it is. I love women for the
emotionality and that brings me pleasure.
M - Even as a teenager, experimenting with other guys, it
wasn’t satisfying because of that; it was “you’re just this
cute little boy that I’m going to try to talk into bed and that’s
it.” There isn’t a sense of mutuality at all.
F – “I think what is pleasureful, what’s
desirable - it’s the sharing of the power, or the
absence of the power, totally. I feel like I’m
more attracted to women, on a Kinsey scale
but the characteristics of people that I find
pleasureful and the things that I desire are
not strictly female. I just happen to either find
them in women more because of the ways in
which women are allowed to be more
flexible, or I’m not in the right town to find
enough sweet guys.”
Male; not about balance of power
M- “It’s so funny to listen to you, because
you’re so much into power, and I’m not at all.
It’s so neat to hear that perspective. I think as
far as pleasure, I think of comfort. I don’t
think so much of balance of power, I just
think of what people provide; it’s beyond
characteristics, it’s beyond what realm of
knowledge someone is familiar with. It’s
just—balance. And feeling comfortable with
that balance.”
Relational Social Constructionism
• These data suggest that gender/sexual
identity isn’t about biology or essence;
it’s produced through culturally
mediated interactions with others.
• Illustrate how those in dissident or
marginalized communities see
themselves in relation to normative
expectations
• Self-other differentiation, binaries,
membership categories
Self-Other Differentiation
F – (the Christian right). On one hand, I
feel sorry for them, that they’re a dying
breed, but I also feel terribly overcome
with anxiety about my generation. I feel
troubled about our generation. I feel
like it’s a strong part of the countermovement is our generation, the kids
our age.
Boundary practice
F- “I can’t stand…the dominator/protector,
the beer and tits guys. Guys with that
mentality. I just can’t stand to be around
them. I don’t want to see them. I
stereotype them based on looks and
everything. I try to find a person to have
relationship with that doesn’t fit into
either of the boxes. But it’s hard. I meet a
lot more girls who don’t fit into the boxes
than I do guys.”
See tug and pull of old patterns
F- “I think there needs to be a disclaimer - because
you can have that connection with someone,
have a really incredible experience, and be with
them physically, emotionally, mentally, all at the
same time, and then still, because of whatever,
because of their frame of mind, because of how
they grew up, because of the boxes, because of
labels and stereotypes, a month later they turn
out to be just like everyone else you’ve met. And
all of a sudden, they’re not there emotionally,
mentally, physically, at all.”
Relation to normative expectations
M- “I know I’m not part of the norm, but
am affected by the norm, and trying to
understand that… Slightly enlightened,
critically thinking.
Still heavily influenced by male
stereotypes and rebelling against many
of those while still looking to identify
where they live and exist within me.”
Directions for research
• Additional data collection – more
diversity in sample, ethnically and in
terms of gender and sexual identities.
• Additional questions – how do
traditionally identified young people
negotiate these identities?
References
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New York: Rutledge.
Connell, R. W. (1995). Masculinities. Berkeley: University of
California Press.
Crane, B. & Crane-Seeber, J. (2003). The four boxes of gendered
sexuality: Good girl/bad girl & tough guy/sweet guy. In
Heasley, R. & Crane, B. (Ed.). Sexual lives: A reader on the theories
and realities of human sexualities, New York: McGraw-Hill.
Hill Collins, P. (1990). Black feminist thought: Knowledge,
consciousness & the politics of empowerment. Boston: Unwin
Hymnan.
Lorbeer, J. (2005). Breaking the bowls: Degendering and feminist change.
New York: W.W. Norton & Co.
Savin-Williams, R. C. (2005). The new gay teenager. Cambridge, MA:
Harvard University Press.