Section Thirteen: Jerusalem! Oh, Jerusalem!
Christians Begin to Move Beyond Jerusalem
•
A persecution of Hellenists, especially Hellenist Jewish Christians, forced many to
flee from Jerusalem and to other regions such as Antioch (Acts 8). Saul, himself
among the persecutors, became a Christian during this time
•
Herod Agrippa was King of a reunited Jewish kingdom though still subservient to the
Roman Empire. Agrippa was beloved by those members of the Jewish nation who
remained faithful to the Torah. On the other hand, Agrippa was no friend to
Christians. His persecution of the young Christian community in Jerusalem ended the
life of James, the brother of John and put Peter in prison. Agrippa’s reign lasted only
three years. In 44 CE Herod Agrippa died and the governance in Judea reverted to
Roman procurators
•
Famine broke out in Judea around 46 CE. Paul visited Jerusalem to bring aid in 48 CE
•
In 49 CE, the Roman Emperor Claudius expelled Jews from the city of Rome. This
was perhaps due to conflicts between Jewish Christians and Jews faithful to the
Torah. It was about this same time that Paul met with Peter and James in the Council
of Jerusalem
•
Paul was accosted while visiting Jerusalem. He was arrested (to save his life) and, as
a Roman citizen, Paul appealed to Caesar @59 CE. He traveled to Rome for trial and
remained under house arrest until @62 CE. Nero then became Emperor in Rome. He
later blamed Christians for a fire in the city (@68 CE). Peter and Paul were killed in
the persecutions that followed
13.1
The Jewish People Begin to Suffer Under Roman Rule
•
Once the Romans again governed directly in Judea, they became increasingly
intolerant of Jewish law and religious practices. The Romans even began to take to
themselves the appointment of Jewish High Priests
•
In 39 CE, the Roman Emperor Gaius (Caligula) declared himself to be a god and
ordered that a statue of himself be set up in every temple in the Empire. Only his
Jewish subjects refused and Gaius threatened to destroy their Temple. Gaius died
before his threats became reality
•
In 66 CE, one of the procurators of Judea appointed by Rome, a man named Florus,
stole treasure from the Temple. Local Jewish citizens revolted and killed the Roman
garrison in Jerusalem
•
Cestus Gallus, the governor in Syria, sent troops to Jerusalem to quell the rebellion.
They, too, were defeated. Gallus sent in more troops but this time starting with the
rebel forces in Galilee in the North rather than directly to Jerusalem. An estimated
100,000 Galilean Jews were either arrested or sold into slavery. The Galilean Jews
who survived were angered by the fact that the Jewish leadership in Jerusalem
failed to help them in their time of need
•
Galilean Jewish refugees who fled to Jerusalem to avoid the Roman slaughter in
their district began to quarrel with the Jewish leadership there for what they
considered a betrayal of the cause
13.2
The End of the Second Temple Period
•
After their campaign in Galilee had been won, Roman troops then marched south to
Jerusalem. They surrounded the city and laid siege to the rebels within. One of the
Jewish Zealots in Jerusalem set fire to a supply of food in an attempt to force all the
citizens there to take an active part in the fight. The starvation that resulted from
this fire caused almost as many deaths in Jerusalem as were caused by actual
battle. (Josephus, The Jewish Wars, Book V, Chapter 1, paragraph 4)
•
In 70 CE, the Roman army breached the walls of Jerusalem. The Romans
slaughtered the population (Josephus estimated 1,100,000 dead) and
then destroyed the Second Temple
•
The Destruction of the Second Temple had a major impact on Judaism;
- Priests, including the High Priest, no longer had a place to offer sacrifice. The
Levitical priesthood faded from the scene
- The Sadducees, whose importance was tied closely to Temple worship also
faded from the scene.
- The Zealots ceased to be a factor when the last of that group died at Masada in
73 CE
- The Essenes were never heard from again.
- The Pharisees, those who were “set apart for the law” remained the only
organized group within Jewish society that seemed to survive
•
Roman procurators re-established their direct control over Judea and appointed a
Jewish patriarch or prince (Nasi).
13.3
The Beginning of Church and Synagogue (I)
Two stories illustrate how the destruction of the Second Temple by the Romans led to the
beginning of two new faiths.
Rabbi Johanan ben Zakkai
While the city of Jerusalem was being besieged by the Romans, Johanan ben Zakkai,
pleaded with the Jewish defenders of the city to surrender rather than cause a greater loss
of life and the possible destruction of the Temple. The leaders refused. Rabbi ben Zakkai
decided he would try to plead his case with the Roman commander, Vespasian. First
though he would have to find some way to safely exit the city. He recruited two of his
disciples to build a casket. He then had himself placed in the casket and the two disciples
carried him to the city gate. When the guards challenged their exit, the disciples said that
the law required that bodies had to be removed from the city before sunset.
Rabbi ben Zakkai then made his way to Vespasian. When Vespasian asked what the Rabbi
wanted of him, the Rabbi, realizing that peace was no longer possible, responded that all
he wanted was Javneh (Jamnia) where he could teach his disciples, establish a house of
prayer and follow the commandments of the Law. With the Temple destroyed, worship led
by priests of the Temple gave way to worship led by Rabbis in the synagogue
Rabbi ben Zakkai also predicted that Vespasian would become Emperor of Rome. Two
days later, Vespasian received the news that the ruling Emperor had died and that he was
named to replace him
13.4
The Beginning of Church and Synagogue (II)
Jewish Christians Flee to Pella
The Church historian Eusebius tells the story of how the Hebrew Jewish Christian
community in Jerusalem (remember, Hellenist Jewish Christians had been driven out some
years earlier) had been warned by a prophecy to flee across the Jordan to the city of Pella
to avoid the coming destruction of Jerusalem. Some take this to be the warning found in
Matthew 24:16.
The Early Church Fathers Jerome and Epiphanius mention a group of Jewish Christians
whom they called Nazarenes living in that area during the fourth century CE. They had one
gospel (Matthew?) written in Hebrew but accepted all the basics of Christianity (virgin
birth, divinity of Jesus, etc.), accepted Paul’s mission to the Gentiles but themselves
continued to follow the Jewish traditions of circumcision and the keeping of the Sabbath.
This group were few in number by the fourth century CE and lived mostly in Northern
Israel and Syria*
•
This group should not be confused with the Ebionites who had no room for virgin birth, a divine
Jesus or a mission to the Gentiles whether by Paul or anyone else
The timely exit of the leaders of both Pharisaic and Christian Judaism ensured the survival
of both groups. The other sects of Judaism, the Sadducees, Zealots and Essenes were, as
mentioned earlier, not so lucky. As mentioned earlier, priests and Levites, who were linked
to Temple worship, also found themselves displaced, no longer having a place to offer
their sacrifices.
13.5
The Beginning of Church and Synagogue (III)
•
After the destruction of the Second Temple, Rabbi Johanan ben Zakkai, now
convened a Sanhedrin at Javneh (Jamnia). Having learned a lesson from the
Babylonian Captivity, he encouraged the Jewish faithful to renew their study of the
Torah at their local synagogues.
Some scholars believe that it was during this time period that the synagogues of
Judea became more like the synagogues of the diaspora, less of a place of public
assembly and reading of the law and more of a place of public prayer and
study of the law.
•
As Jewish Christians became less welcome in synagogues, they began to establish
their own Churches. The Church in Jerusalem had already been established at least
two decades before the first revolt. As mentioned in the previous section, the
organization of this first Church included a Bishop (James), presbyters (elders,
priests) and deacons. That system may have been patterned after the organization of
the local Jewish assemblies (synagogues as they existed before the first revolt) led
by an archisynagogos (head of the assembly), aided by a gerousia (council of
elders) and assisted by hyperetes (assistants or helpers)
•
Interestingly, the spread of Christianity seemed to follow the spread of Judaism in the
diaspora. This seems to support the notion that Christianity was seen as a sect of
Judaism long after things changed in Judea
13.6
The Jewish Diaspora at the Height of the Roman Empire
13.7
Christian Communities Shortly Before the Edict of Milan
As the Acts of the Apostles described, early Christians first went to the synagogues in the
diaspora to preach. Having to defend their faith in a foreign environment, these
synagogues tended to be more evangelistic and to express their ideas in a language more
comfortable to Hellenism (e.g. Philo of Alexandria). These factors caused the synagogues
of the diaspora to be more tolerant of the first Christian evangelists, at least until the
decrees from Javneh worked their way around the various communities of the diaspora
13.8
Javneh Speaks
The distrust in the synagogues of Judea of those Jews who believed that Jesus was the
Messiah likely worsened with their increasing insistence that Jesus was divine.
Sometime around 95 CE, that distrust became codified when the Sanhedrin at Javneh
issued the Birkat haMinim. This “blessing” declared that the minim (heretics) were no
longer to be welcomed in the synagogues. Until recently, most scholars agreed that the
Jewish Christians were the minim that the Sanhedrin specifically had in mind. Recent
scholarship has brought that conclusion into question.
For the slanderers let there be no hope, and may all evil ones perish in an instant. Let all
the enemies of the House of Israel, be speedily cut down; and may You swiftly uproot the
evil ones speedily in our days! Blessed are You, O Lord, who shatters His enemies and
humbles the arrogant.
The Council of Javneh also began the process of codifying the canon of the Hebrew
Scriptures as we know them today. The Torah and the Books of the Prophets had been
almost completely discerned by this point but there was still disagreement about what
books would be included in the section called the Writings
13.9
Another Blow to Jerusalem: The Second Jewish Revolt
•
In the year 118 CE, the reigning Roman Emperor, Hadrian, seemed to have some
measure of sympathy for the Jewish nation. He allowed the planning for the
rebuilding of the Temple to begin. Those plans were never realized because Hadrian,
for some reason, changed his mind. At first, he simply required a new site for the
Temple. That change widened to the point that he wanted to create an entire new city
in Jerusalem to be called Aelia Capitolina. The final straw was Hadrian’s decision to
build a pagan shrine (dedicated to Jupiter) on the site of the Second Temple as a
central piece in his new city
•
Hadrian left the area in 132 CE to return to Rome and almost immediately after his
departure, a revolt broke out in Judea. Rebels led by Simon bar Kokhba captured 50
fortresses and over 900 unfortified towns and villages. A Roman counter-attack led
by Rufus, the procurator of Judea and Publius Marcellus, the governor of Syria was
also defeated. Hadrian then sent a more experienced general, Julius Severus, to lead
the Roman forces and the tide of the war turned.
•
The final battle took place in 135 CE in the town of Bethar where Simon bar Kokhba,
the Sanhedrin and the Nasi had relocated. At the end of the battle, every Jew in
Bethar was killed
•
After the second revolt, Aelia Capitolina was built. No Jew was allowed to live in the
city. A prominent Rabbi, Rabbi Akiva, was also martyred
13.10
The Impact of the Second Revolt on the Synagogue
•
During the Babylonian captivity, the Jewish priesthood in Babylon codified the
Torah and put it in writing. They encouraged the people of the captive nation to
learn the Law and to teach it to the next generation in anticipation of a return to
Jerusalem and to Temple worship.
It is not clear if the work begun at Javneh (Jamnia) also anticipated a day when
Jerusalem would be free from Roman domination and a third Temple might
be built. Certainly, the original plans of the Roman Emperor Hadrian at least
allowed the Jewish leadership of that time to hope for a the construction of a new
Temple and a resumption of the Temple sacrifices
•
Though all such hopes were ultimately dashed, it is clear that the work begun at
Javneh did have a very beneficial effect . It can be argued that the Sanhedrin of
Javneh laid a foundation that allowed Judaism to remain a largely united and vital
faith in regions throughout the Diaspora and across many centuries of time
•
The synagogue that evolved from this time period continues to be the center of
Jewish worship to this day
13.11
The Impact of the Second Revolt on the Church (I)
•
Jerusalem (Aelia Capitolina) remained an important legacy city in Christianity
though, over time, Hellenist Christians replaced Jewish Christians as Bishops there
•
Many Jewish Christians who heeded the signs of the time leading up to the first
revolt and fled to Pella remained there and managed to maintain themselves there
as an organized Church community yet still managed to retain their Jewish roots.
The Christian community that existed in Jerusalem became increasingly Hellenist
•
Despite the double blow by the Romans against Jerusalem, that city remained a
major patriarchate of Christianity but lost its position as the prime patriarchate.
Christianity flourished in Antioch of Syria and Alexandria in Egypt. Both cities
became important centers of Christianity and each city developed its own school of
Christian thought. By the time of the Edict of Milan, Christian bishops in Antioch of
Syria, Alexandria and Jerusalem were considered Patriarchs of the Church. The
Bishop of Rome was the Patriarch of the West. The Bishop of Constantinople was
also considered a patriarch after Constantine moved his capital there
•
With Peter and Paul both traveling to Rome and with both being martyred there,
Rome managed to replace Jerusalem as the center of Christianity sometime in the
early to middle portion of the second century CE. As the centers of Christianity
moved away from Jerusalem, the Christian Church increasingly grew away from its
Jewish roots. The community that was first made up of Jewish believers with its
center in Jerusalem wound up as a largely gentile community with its center in
Rome
13.12
The Impact of the Second Revolt on the Church (II)
•
When Peter and Paul arrived in Rome in the early 60s CE, they found a city that had a
large Jewish population and a growing Christian population made up of both gentile
and Jewish Christians
As was the case in most cities where the Apostles taught, the two men likely
appointed local leaders but did not themselves serve in that role. There is some
reason to believe that Paul may have even taken his long-desired missionary trip to
the West (Spain) before returning to Rome one final time. In any case, both Peter
and Paul were martyred in Rome during Nero’s persecutions (@66 CE)
•
After the death of the two Apostles, Rome began to assert her role in Christianity
In 95 CE, Clement, a presbyter-bishop in Rome, wrote an epistle to
the Church at Corinth urging them to respect those who were placed
in authority over them.
Around 150 CE, Justin wrote his famous defense of Christianity in
Rome
@ 40 years later, Irenaeus, Bishop of Lugdunum in Gaul (Lyons in
modern France), spoke of the Christian community in Rome in the
following way, “For it is a matter of necessity that every Church (ecclesia)
should agree with this Church (the Roman Church) on account of its preeminent authority” (Contra Haireiseis, Book 3)
In 313 CE, the Roman Emperor Constantine converted to Christianity
and in 380 CE the Emperor Theodosius made Christianity the only
religio licita in the Empire. This cemented Rome’s status
13.13
What They Didn’t Tell You
Less than a century after catholic Christianity became mandatory in the Roman Empire,
(380 CE), everything changed in the Western part of the Empire. Even before the Goths
had invaded, the political capital of the West moved from Rome to Ravenna. The
invading Germanic tribes were Christian but Arian Christians (Jesus wasn’t fully divine)
and not catholic Christians. The Eastern Empire remained catholic but much of Italy,
France, Spain and North Africa had no need for either Rome or Constantinople.
Fortunately for the Bishop of Rome, the importance of his patriarchate and the tolerance
of the Gothic chief Odoacer ruling from Rome, allowed catholic Christianity to survive in
Italy. The Visigoths and the Vandals were far less tolerant in parts of France, Spain and
North Africa. It is a little told story how Western Christianity had to be reconverted to
the catholic version of the faith. Not long after that reconversion, Northern Africa and
Spain were lost to Islam along with Egypt and the Holy Land
13.14
A False Conclusion (There’s More to Come)
•
From the destruction of the Temple, two new forms of Judaism developed.
•
Pharisaic Judaism grew into Rabbinic Judaism and continued prayer and the study
of the Law in Jewish centers around the world. Interestingly, since Jews were not
allowed in Jerusalem for a number of years after the second revolt, the Jewish
community in Babylon played a major role in the distribution of the Hebrew
Scriptures and in commentaries regarding those scriptures
•
Judaism that believed that Christ was the Messiah foretold in the Hebrew Scriptures
evolved into Christianity. The Christian beliefs such as the resurrection of the
dead, the immortality of the soul and the existence of angels could be reconciled
with Pharisaic/Rabbinic Judaism which held somewhat similar beliefs. The idea
that Jesus was divine, however, was a barrier that proved too hard to get past.
Granted, there were some ideas in the Jewish diaspora that might have found a way
to accommodate such notions (Philo). In the end those ideas fell too far out of the
mainstream of Rabbinic Judaism to be in any way accepted
•
As Christianity developed its own explanations of what it believed, it grew away
from its Jewish roots but could never abandon them. Despite severe pressure from
some Christian groups, the Hebrew Scriptures remained part of the Christian Bible.
The Christian Eucharist remained, at its heart, a celebration of the Jewish Passover
meal. Christian worship retained both the Book (the Synagogue) and the Altar
(the Temple) of Judaism
•
While each group has gone its own way over the centuries and the connection
between them lost in so many disputes, it seems to be a connection too real for
Christianity ever to forget
13.15
Concluding Thoughts (I)
Science has made so many improvements to the human condition that even a thirteen
week course could barely scratch the surface. The scientific method is a tool, that when
used properly, allows science a means to correct itself when it gets something wrong
While science is good at exploring the physical world, it always encounters limits that it
can’t seem to get beyond. We have already discussed the wave/particle issue. Dark
matter and dark energy are ideas that have been proposed to get past a specific issue,
namely, that the mass of the universe that can be seen can’t explain what is seen. Some
of that is due to the fact that scientists live in the very bubble they are trying to describe
Religion is different than science. Like science, it seeks to know more but, while
science seems focused on questions that explain how, religion seems to focus more on
questions that explain why. One of those basic questions is why is there something
rather than nothing
Christianity, Judaism and Islam are all revealed religions. They have all certain basic
tenets that require faith rather than knowledge for acceptance. As a result, religion has
no tool in its bag like the scientific method so scientists have a certain skepticism about
religion’s ability to discover truth and that skepticism is not unwarranted.
Yet honest scientists who are aware of the work of Kurt Godel, Werner Heisenberg, and
Erwin Schroedinger and, yes, Bertrand Russell must honestly admit that there findings
should be presented in degrees of probability rather than as statements of absolute
certainty so scientists also need to reserve a little skepticism for their own work as well
13.16
Concluding Thoughts (II)
If religion can remind scientists of the value of skepticism in science, it should also be
more open to a role for human intelligence in understanding what their experience with
God has revealed. Consider this basic question: why is there something rather than
nothing? “Because God said so” is not a particularly good answer to a creature who
revelations declares was made in the image and likeness of God, with an intellect and
free will. Is the reasoning listed below such a bad way of at least exploring the “Why is
there something?” question?
1) Something exists because it is in its very nature to exist. The universe exists and has
always existed for that reason
2) Something exists was brought into existence by a being whose very nature is to
exist.
3) There is no “something” that exists. What human beings have labeled as
“something” is all maya, an illusion (or a delusion?)
If these are the basic “why” questions that religion is supposed to answer, it can’t be
afraid to use the gifts given by God to at least explore them. Answer 3 seems unlikely
since, for something to be an “illusion”, there would have to be someone is existence
who is capable of perceiving. Religion can propose reasons why answer 2 might be
better than answer 1. Science can propose reasons why answer 1 might be better than
answer 2. The truth is that neither can prove beyond any doubt that what they propose
is true. In fact, truth be told, there is some element of faith needed to answer all the big
questions in both religion and science
13.17
Concluding Thoughts (III)
A Pew research poll taken in 2009 found that 33% of scientists polled believe in a
personal God. Another 18% believe in a universal spirit or higher power. This finding
is remarkable consistent with a poll taken of 1,000 U.S. scientists by psychologist
James Leuba in 1914 (42%) and by University of Georgia professor James Larson in
1996 (40%). This should indicate that at least a large number of scientists see no
contradiction between religious faith and human reason
Roman Catholic leader John Paul II, in his encyclical Fides et Ratio (Faith and Reason)
reminds us that both faith and reason are doing their best to discover truth. He
reminds us of a very important thing; Truth cannot contradict truth.
While celebrity Bill Maher may claim (and not without some validity) that conflicts over
religious belief has been the cause of the deaths of millions over the centuries, an
honest man must also admit that the “scientific” atheism as practiced by communist
governments in Stalin’s Soviet Union, Mao’s China and Pol Pot’s Cambodia led to the
death of even more millions just within one century
Faith in a personal god (theism) and faith in human reason alone (atheism) are often
the excuse for human corruption rather than the cause of it
13.18
Credo Ut Intelligam
These words were the motto of Saint Augustine, perhaps the first serious theologian in
Western Christianity. He believed that faith (credo) precedes reason. But he also
believed that faith leads to the desire to better understand (intelligam) what is believed.
Augustine noted that four of the seven gifts of the Holy Spirit included Wisdom,
Understanding, Counsel and Knowledge (based on 1 Cor. 12:7-8 and also referenced in
Isaiah)
Peter also reminded us that it is important to….
“Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for
the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect” (1 Peter 3:15-16).
The history of Christianity has proven that relying too much on human reasoning can
lead to problems as Peter warned in 2 Peter 1:20-21,
“Know this first of all, that there is no prophecy of scripture that is a matter of personal
interpretation, for no prophecy ever came through human will; but rather human beings
moved by the holy Spirit spoke under the influence of God.”
No one, whether religious or atheist, should ever be afraid of truth and anyone who
honestly pursues the truth is always well-served by a healthy dose of humility when
undertaking the effort
13.19
The Final Conclusion
The goal of this course was to take you through the experiences that ordinary people
had with what they perceived to be extraordinary things
They have told us about these experiences initially in stories most likely told orally and
then, later, put in writing to preserve the accuracy of the telling as much as humanly
possible
We have encountered different peoples from different cultures who speak different
languages and say things in different ways (some by song, some by prayers and some
by simple narratives)
In this telling, they propose a series of encounters with a transcendent being that they
call God. They used words like God and others word that, at best, may describe one or
two percent of what they experienced. But human words can only go so far in
describing the transcendent
The sum of their experience is that there exists a being who created us as well as the
universe in which we live. This being is a being of selfless love. This being wants to
share his existence of selfless love with his creation but only if his creatures so choose
to accept. Love is something that cannot be forced. It must be freely given. Love is
also a response that involves a person’s entirety, body and soul, faith and reason
So, we covered the various contexts, historical, geographical and political, just to help
explain the story a little bit better. This has been proposed, not imposed, for your
consideration
13.20
Th.. Th.. That’s All Folks!
Thank you for your participation in the class. This semester has proven to be just as
educational for me on my end of the desk as last year’s class. One of the nice things
about Osher is that it provides a unique learning opportunity regardless of which side of
the desk one might be on.
I appreciate the honesty and the passion of the views that you brought with you to the
class as well as your willingness to express them in public. Thoughts so deeply and so
personally held are not always so easy to express in a public forum
Where I have agreed with you, I continue to recommend a degree of skepticism. To
paraphrase David in Psalm 51, “The many things that I don’t know are ever before me.”
Where I have disagreed with you, I hope I have done so in a respectful way. I learned a
long time ago that beliefs contrary to my own can act as a whetstone that allows me to
hone my own beliefs more precisely
I hope you enjoy the upcoming holidays and thank you again for giving me the
opportunity to get to know you and to interact with you. It has been educational for me
and it has been fun.
13.21
Bibliography
Books
NIV Worship Bible
New Jerome Biblical Commentary
The Quest for the Historical Israel
Gabriel’s Revelation
Ancient Israel in Egypt and the Exodus
Frank Moore Cross; Conversations
With a Biblical Scholar
The Works of Flavius Josephus
Introduction to the New Testament
Antioch and Rome
From Synagogue to Church
From Apostles to Bishops
In the Shadow of the Temple
Raymond Brown
Joseph Fitzmeyer
Roland E. Murphy
Israel Finkelstein
Amihai Mazar
Israel Knohl, Ada Yardeni
Margaret Warker,
Jerome K. Hoffmeier
Abraham Malamat
Hershel Shanks
Hershel Shanks
William Whiston (transl.)
Raymond Brown
Raymond Brown
John Meier
James T. Burtchaell
Francis A. Sullivan
Oskar Skarsaune
Zondervan Publishing, 1984
Prentice Hall, 1990
Brill, Leiden 2007
Biblical Archaeology Review
Biblical Archaeology Review, 2012
Biblical Archaeology Society, 1994
Hendrickson Publishers, 1987
Yale University Press, 1990
Paulist Press, 2004
Cambridge University Press, 1992
The Newman Press, 2001
Inter Varsity Press, 2002
Regularly Consulted Web Sites
http://www.biblestudy.org/maps/main.html
http://www.cob-net.org/compare.htm#TextType
http://www.mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt0.htm
http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf01.toc.html
Self-explanatory
Various versions of New Testament Manuscripts
Hebrew-English Interlinear translation of the Hebrew Scriptures
Writings of the early Christian church in the first century or so of its
existence including Clement of Rome, Polycarp of Smyrna, Ignatius
of Antioch, Papias and Justin Martyr
13.22