SHAW LANE
Int.
Could you tell me how long you’ve been here?
Four years.
Int.
And what are the main changes in the school that you’ve seen in that time?
Well basically we’ve had a change of senior leadership and the head teacher has
moved on and we’ve got a new head teacher. The previous regime was very
much dealing with situations that perhaps were less formal, shall we say. People
just got on with their jobs and I think there was less monitoring and less
tracking going on whereas now, under the new senior team, we’ve got more
policies and more monitoring. The good practice has always been there because
there hasn’t been a great turnover of staff and the pupils have always been
involved. However, there was a certain amount of fine tuning that was requited:
for example bringing in the policy for homework etc. and that’s worked really
well. I think you need the support of the senior team in order to make any
policy work effectively. So the classroom teachers can obviously enforce policy
but then it has to be backed up by the senior leaders. And on the behaviour
front I think that’s been a big positive step in the right direction. Also I think
we’ve tried to focus on a lot of the monitoring in terms of our performance
because we’ve been judged against the performance of each group for example.
So the middle team leaders are tracking and analysing data a lot more whereas,
in the past, data was all over the place but now the deputy head has taken on
the role of collating data and putting it all into one spread sheet where middle
leaders can get hold of that data very quickly. That helps to see where there is
underperformance from any particular group or anything and we can perhaps
deal with that quickly.
Int.
So those have been the main changes in the four years that you’ve been here.
What about the current educational policy landscape more generally? Is that
something you have an opinion on and something you follow?
Yeah I mean there have been a lot of changes in the GCSE and people who have
done modular have become a little bit unstuck. I’ve always believed that the
exam content is quite challenging and when people say that exams have got
easier that is not necessarily the case. I think this business of retake after
retake after retake is what has probably helped to push those grades up but, in
terms of those people who say that an exam nowadays is much easier than it
used to be, some things have come in and some things have gone out but I
guess the difficulty has pretty much stayed the same. I think there are changes
going on at A Level as well now and they are taking out all the modules in
January. So it’s almost going back full circle to when I did my A Levels and
GCSEs but I think it’s a step in the right direction. I don’t think you can compare
an A Star from a student who has only taken the exam once with an A Star from
a student who has taken it six times and got an A Star eventually. I don’t think
those are on par and, therefore, when you compare one A Star against another
A Star it should be like for like.
Int.
Do you tend to keep abreast of the policy developments that are particularly
relevant to your subject areas as opposed to the more general ones?
Yeah. I mean you’re aware of what’s going on and you get feedback from the
senior team and perhaps from the media and what have you but I think it’s the
ones that affect you directly. Certainly, as a middle leader, if you had all the
time in the world you could explore all this but I don’t ever get to the bottom of
my work and things to do so I don’t have the opportunity to do the other things
that I’d like to be able to do. I end up doing the things I have to do and once
Shaw Lane – Maths
1
SHAW LANE
you meet one deadline there is another one coming up and that is the situation
and it comes with the pressure of the job.
Int.
How optimistic are you about the school?
I think we’re going in the right direction and the results are improving. Certainly
for maths we are above national average and, overall, we’ve had the best ever
results last year and we continue to improve. So we are a good school at the
moment and we are looking to becoming an outstanding school so I’m very
positive.
Int.
And how optimistic are you about the pupils?
Well our pupils come from a whole range of backgrounds and they’ve got
different starting points. The value added of the school is an unbelievable
situation so they are making great progress. They may not all be getting A Star
or whatever but we’re not a grammar school and, from their starting point, they
are all making good progress. The behaviour, like I say, has improved as well so
I think that we are heading in the right direction.
Int.
And what about yourself as a practitioner – how optimistic are you about your
own career?
For myself I’ve come to a point where I think that, as a middle leader, I’ve hit
the ceiling: I’m at the top of my scale but I’m content and happy. For me it’s got
to a stage where it’s not just about climbing up the ladder but it’s about being
happy in your job. At the moment I am content but I’ve got some health issues
so I don’t want to put extra pressure on myself. I’ve been in the position where
I’ve turned down a couple of approaches from other schools because I enjoy
myself as a head of house and I enjoy myself in the classroom as well. I’ve had
a taste of assistant headship but it’s not necessarily for me. At the moment I’m
very happy where I am.
Int.
What about the profession as a whole – how optimistic do you feel about the
profession in general?
I think that teachers should be allowed to teach but there is so much
bureaucracy that goes on and you spend so many hours trying to do so many
other things but your main priority should be to stay in the classroom and teach.
Unfortunately there are so many other pressures on teachers that take away
their time from teaching. If you think of the amount of energy a teacher has the
more they have to engage with bureaucracy the less energy they have for the
classroom. I’d rather we put ninety per cent of our energy into teaching the kids
and ten per cent on paperwork rather than having more things that distract you
from your real focus. The way I see it is that my main job is to make sure that
those kids in my care get the best possible deal and the only way I can do that
is by me standing in front of them in the classroom helping them make as much
progress as they can. Now all the other strategies and the bureaucracy obviously a certain amount is necessary in terms of planning and preparation
and marking and what have you but, outside that, I think we spend far too
much time tied up with policies and plans etc. I think we need to cut down on
the bureaucracy and let teachers teach. In my time in teaching that is what I’ve
found because they’ve made so many changes but we are just going round and
round in circles and every few years we change things. I wish they’d make up
their mind. The maths we teach now is the same maths that was taught fifteen
hundred years ago but we are going round in circles changing every few years.
Shaw Lane – Maths
2
SHAW LANE
Int.
Would you describe the staff as ambitious in general?
Yes and no: yes from the point of view that they have opportunities in the
school and people have taken them and people don’t shy away from extra
responsibility. I think a lot of people do recognise that there are a lot of schools
out there that are not as good as here. If they do go elsewhere they must be
getting a pretty good deal in order for them to want to move away from this
school. Some people have moved away for personal reasons or for promotion
but not because they’ve been particularly unhappy.
Int.
So is there a kind of loyalty and pride for the school from staff members?
Yeah I would say so. Some of the staff have been here for many, many years
and we’re talking about twenty plus and, in some cases, thirty plus years. I
know one of the staff started their teaching career here and they are about to
retire. So we’ve got that kind of loyalty and a few years ago the governors
actually set up a subcommittee where they started looking at succession
planning for when people retire. So people have been content staying here.
Int.
We’re interested in external policies mainly – the ones that are implemented by
national government – so what policies spring to mind?
Like I said, from a subject point of view, they’re the ones that affect us in terms
of exams. Then you’ve got the ones that affect all staff like the pupil premium.
Int.
Tell me about that then; how has that made an impact?
First of all I asked one of my teachers how we could use it in the maths
department and they said that we need to be able to justify, for every pupil,
how we are using it and the best way to do that is to do it in a way where we
can show that we have smaller class sizes, for example, where it has had an
impact on all pupils. You cannot say ‘right you’re on school meals therefore
you’ll get extra number of hours’ and, in the same class, ‘you’re not on free
school meals therefore you will not get those extra hours’. That is not being fair
and just to those other students. When you implement a policy like that and
even though it’s a policy that has got to work in a certain way where a certain
group need to benefit it’s about how you apply that policy and if it’s been
applied in a just and fair way then I can relate to that. I couldn’t say to my line
manager that I’ve got a list in front of me I’ve got three kids who are on free
school meals therefore I need to give them more attention. I would never do
that. So I think it has got to be applied generically where it has an effect on
everyone and one way is to say that by having smaller class sizes you are able
to give those pupils more time because you, as a teacher, will have more time
to identify the needs of every individual.
Int.
So that’s how that would be approached?
That is the approach that we take. I would feel very awkward if somebody said
to me ‘you’ve got these twenty kids and I’d like you to give these four kids more
time because we get extra money for them’. Do you see what I mean?
Int.
Thinking about yourself as a head of department how do cope with new policies
coming in with the strategic plans for your department?
When a policy comes in – if it’s statutory – then it’s got to be done. We all have
our views about whether we like it or not but it’s still got to be implemented.
Then the senior team have to get on-board with it and they will say ‘right this is
Shaw Lane – Maths
3
SHAW LANE
how we are going to implement it’. Then the rest is up to us. Now I, as the head
of department, have already said is ‘what you don’t want to do is get your
teachers running round in circles doing all sorts of other things implementing
this policy or that policy’. We’ve got to meet the statutory requirements and
we’ve got to meet the senior team’s requirements; we’ve got to go from A to B
but how we do it is up to us. For example, the homework policy had to be
implemented for every student in the school and you could either //
Int.
That’s the latest of the new Ofsted requirements, is it?
No, no it’s part of our on-going improvements in the school anyway but it needs
to be applied in such a way that you don’t take that time away because,
effectively, when I set a class homework I could spend half of my next lesson
listening to all the excuses as to why the homework hasn’t been handed in. You
can waste a lot of time in that way. So we don’t do that: we get the homework
in and then you get on with your lesson and then, later on when you’ve had a
chance to look at the homework, you go back to those pupils who haven’t done
it and pull them up and put then in detention or something. But different
departments will handle this differently and the way I wanted to do it with my
department is to say we take a minimalistic approach where we do the least
amount to work and we get the students to do the most because that’s the
whole idea of homework: to get them doing all the work and you simply monitor
what is going on. So that is the approach we’ll take: we monitor what is going
on and if they haven’t done a piece of homework we can chase them until they
do it and if they haven’t done it to a certain standard we use a green light
system: so if they’ve done a piece of homework to our satisfaction we give them
a green light and if it’s not done to our satisfaction they get a red light and then
they have to do it again in their own time until we are satisfied with it or they
have to do it in a detention. So we try to make that policy work but to make it
work in a way which is not taking up the teacher’s time but the pupil’s time. As
a middle manager I’ve got to look after my staff as well as my pupils. Some
people take the approach that paperwork is kept up to date and in order but the
net result of that is that, in the department, you have, on the face of it, a
brilliant department but it is not getting the results. The way I look at it there
are probably some departments that are in a better position than I am as far as
paperwork is concerned but as far as results are concerned I know that my
department is the best in the school. And Ofsted will probably turn a blind eye to
some of the paperwork if they know that the results are good and that the
pupils are making progress. All these policies are there to ensure that the pupils
do make progress. I suppose there are some policies about the security or the
protection of the pupils and you’ve got to be more stringent with those and
make sure that everyone is working towards that.
Int.
How much negotiation or brokering is involved on your part between you and
senior leadership with regards to the choice of policies to implement and the
ways in which those policies are implemented?
Mostly the senior team is very good and they will consult with middle
management and we have a group set up where we will meet up at lunchtimes
or after school sessions where, if the senior team have got certain policies that
they are going to implement, they will take our views on board before they
implement the policy. So there is that going on and we, as heads of department,
meet regularly with the senior team and, of course, those issues are discussed
there as well and heads of department will get a chance to have their say as
well. So that level of communication will go on before that policy is actually put
into practice so it’s not something that has just been sprung on us and there is a
certain amount of discussion and communication that goes on beforehand.
Shaw Lane – Maths
4
SHAW LANE
Int.
Have you experienced any challenges in this process?
When you have a policy that has to be generic sometimes it doesn’t suit every
single department. For example, marking policy, if it is done in a certain way,
will suit the English department better than it will suit the maths department but
that is just the nature of the beast and I think you have to compromise. And as
long as the senior team take that on-board as well and they understand that
marking a maths piece of work is totally different from marking and English
piece of work. If people at that level don’t understand that then they shouldn’t
be in their job really so you would expect that kind of understanding and the
only friction you get is when there is not that level of understanding between
the two parties. But I’ve not had any problems in that regard.
Int.
And have you had to build capacity and resource in your department in response
to certain policies?
When I started four years ago I started with a department that, basically, had a
few people coming up to the end of their careers and I also had a couple of
NQTs and supply teachers but we’ve grown it into a team now where I’ve got
people who are well on-board and who will take on responsibility. Part of the
role of head of department is to develop staff in their care and it’s not just about
implementing policies because you’ve got to do it in a way where you can look
after your staff. With some of these policies I could take one approach where
they are forever doing monitoring or tracking or whatever and you could do it in
another way where we get the data that we need but the pressure on the staff is
not that great so that they are able to get on with their jobs and do it effectively
and to the best of their ability without them feeling that the job is too stressful.
I’ve one colleague who has been thinking about why she came into teaching in
the first place and I’ve managed to persuade her that actually she could get a
lot of enjoyment out of this job and she has decided to stick with it and take on
extra responsibility and is now really enjoying it.
Int.
So how to you communicate policy to your department?
Like I said before it’s a case of going from A to B: this is our objective so how
are we going to achieve it? So in our meetings we will discuss that just as
middle managers will do with the senior team. Obviously when we have those
discussions if you went with everyone’s ideas then you would never come to a
conclusion so sometimes I have to say that we are going to take it in this
direction. Not everyone might agree with that but it’s something that has to be
enforced and put into practice. So then we have to decide on how we are going
to go about it and once we have decided on that then that’s it. We’ve got a
handbook and we try to refer to whole school policy but if it just relates to
maths then we have our own policies and we try and stick to those in our
department.
Int.
So you’ve got a departmental plan?
Yeah.
Int.
Do you always believe in the policies that you’ve been asked to implement?
Mostly but even if you don’t if it’s statutory then it’s got to be done. With certain
ones your heart is not in it sometimes but you’ve got to do it. When your heart
is not in it it doesn’t get done that well. A couple of years ago = you know when
you go through periods where you have certain buzz words? So about two years
Shaw Lane – Maths
5
SHAW LANE
ago it was a case of every child must be monitored for every = you know the
Assessing Pupil Progress – the APP – well certain departments were doing it
quite well, particularly the English department, but some people interpreted that
as ‘right if I was to ask you about this particular child could you tell me about
where this child is on this topic and on that topic?’ That’s where I disagree with
it because in maths it’s not a case of where you are with a certain topic because
you might be Level 2 on one topic but 4 on another so, overall in an exam, it’s
what level you are performing at. For example, in trigonometry a child might be
on a Grade E and on number work they might be on a Grade B but if I gave
them a whole exam paper they might end up with a C. But people were
analysing it so much and in so much detail that they actually took away from
what the policy was all about. The whole idea was that every teacher and every
child should know where that child’s starting point was and where that child is
expected to go and what their final target is and you use the data to do that. So
we should know where every child is but not to the extent that, for example,
last week we did decimals so what level is that child as far as working on
decimals is concerned? But people started scrutinising and analysing it to that
detail. I don’t think when some think tank in the government sat around a table
and said ‘right we’ve got to come up with a policy for assessing pupils progress’
that this was what they intended to do but when it got filtered down,
somewhere along the line, somebody has messed it up and said that ‘right we’re
going to look at the maths syllabus and we’re going to look at all the different
topics and we’re going to have a statement for all of them and if a pupil can do
this one and this one and this one then they will be a Level 3’. So you kind of sit
back and you adjust it to meet your needs so that you meet all the requirements
of the government and the requirements of the senior team but doing it in a
way that is simplistic rather than in a way that is more complicated. Does that
make sense?
Int.
Yes it does. So there is room for manoeuvre at department level even when
senior management says that this policy has to be done and you still have some
freedom in how to do that.
At the end of the day we’re professionals and we’ve been trained and so the
opinions of those teachers should be taken into consideration and it’s not just a
case of we’ve been told to do it and we will do it in exactly the way that we’ve
been told to. You can achieve the end objective but how you do it should be up
to your own discretion.
Int.
And you feel that is how it works here?
I do, yeah.
Int.
So what have been some of the most difficult policies and some of the most
successful ones? I know you’ve only been here for four years so your knowledge
is limited.
I think, in terms of homework, it’s improving and research shows that those
pupils who do their homework end up performing better. So that is being
monitored now and being assessed regularly so that will have an impact
eventually. I think the behaviour policy obviously has an impact as always
because it allows the teacher the chance to teach without dealing with other
issues. So I think that is working quite well in our school. I think the monitoring
and tracking is beginning to have an impact where we can identify achievement
or where we perhaps need to intervene. Targeting – this policy of maybe
targeting pupils who may not do as well if they didn’t get an intervention – so
that is working well. It certainly has worked well for me in my department and
Shaw Lane – Maths
6
SHAW LANE
it’s now beginning to happen across the school as well. I think we’ve recognised
that English and maths, being core subjects, are driving this school’s results in
terms of league tables and we had a consultant working with the English
department where, on paper, they should be performing ten per cent above the
maths department but it hasn’t been the case in the last three or four years but
I think that is now back on track. And they’ve had a few changes as well in their
leadership team and head of department.
Int.
What about external policies?
There’s the performance management and also the changing framework for
Ofsted and things like that. We’ve had training on that so those are policies that
kind of scare people but, again, they are mandatory and, therefore, that is what
Ofsted will be looking at so they have to be implemented and interpreted in a
way that they are meant to be interpreted. So we’ve had a bit of training on
both of those: performance management as well as the new framework for
Ofsted.
Int.
How would you gage the effects of those policies on job satisfaction?
I think people perhaps don’t like it because they are being held accountable,
aren’t they? But I think those people who are in positions of responsibility need
to be held accountable for the children under their care and for the work that
they do or don’t do. Therefore I think it is seen in a positive light and I think
that people take it on-board. No one likes Ofsted and no one likes their
performance being managed in such a way where they could perhaps be told
that they are not doing their job as successfully as they could but, although it is
not something that people look forward to, it is a necessary and it is something
that needs to be done. So people do take it on-board and are quite positive
about it. It’s a challenge, isn’t it?
Int.
So that is how it is viewed – as a challenge?
Yeah. If that wasn’t there and if people were not held accountable then people
who were not conscientious could take the view that they could do what they
like and get away with it and that shouldn’t be the case. We are paid good
money to do a job and we should try and do it to the best of our ability. So I
think if it is done in a fair and just way and if people, on both sides, are aware of
this then it will work. I think it has been done really well here at the moment in
this school so I think people see it as a positive rather than a negative.
Int.
The final question is: if you were a policy maker what would you do differently?
What I said at the beginning: I would try and cut down the bureaucracy as much
as possible and allow people to do the job that they were employed to do
starting from the caretakers all the way up to the governors or whatever. I try
and do that as much as I can in any of the policies that I implement in my
department. I think I’ve been fairly successful in doing that in recent years.
However, Ofsted might turn up tomorrow and say that my results are good but
they’d like to see this in black and white and we want a five page document on
this. But for the time being this is the way I like to do things: meet the statutory
requirements but keep it simplistic and keep the focus on what is important
which is making sure that the pupils are making good progress.
Int.
Thank you.
Shaw Lane – Maths
7