America 2012 transcendentalist debate
Maguire – where are you on the scale? Why are you where you are?
Melanie – 70% non-transcendentalist – arrested for protesting – one year after – no rights for
civil disobedience
Erica – a chart that shows how many people active facebook user 2004 to now – our group is
conforming more – become more anti-transcendentalists – to hear so much about what others are
doing.
Lindsey – 55% for transcendentalists – this movement of occupy Wall Street civil disobedience
is encouraged – different chances to be civil disobedience.
Ingrid – 905 not trans – a picture of a lecture hall from a college – one person in the front –
teaching this mass of people about a topic – taking notes – that person’s idea
Katya – 60% is trans – climbed this cliff – how he went beyond his comfort zone – achieving his
dreams – put himself above the group – taking this difficult endeavor into his own hands –
understood the natural world through his hard work – difficult feats reveal something about your
own character
Kathryn – NBA finals game – conformity and rules they have to follow – players in uniform and
the people in the stands with the same shirt on.
Justin – a person overlooking the Grand Canyon – individual and natural world very important –
trans spirit dying but still held on by some people
Caitlin – 70% non transcendentalist – Mississippi River really polluted – we are not
transcendentalist – because they think we should have a meaningful relationship with the
environment but we are polluting the air and water
Nora – green Bronx machine – almost no natural world in Bronx – building greenhouses and
showing kids how to make vegetables – so transcendentalists opposing the lack of
transcendentalist
Connor – a Hummer with a large trailer at campgrounds – both parts in this picture a gas
guzzling car but proudly doing some long term camping took their hummer – more gas guzzling
than camping
Jenna – around 60% not transcendentalist – a photo of a Kindle – both sides – we are saving
paper – make life apparently simpler but making it harder in the long run
Lindsey – plays rely on emotions – Wicked – actors play off emotions and understanding of
feelings will express your role very well – emotion and freedom of speech important in America
– Americans not shy
Josh – shift a bit based on what Lindsey said – the minority in 2012 might be doing this stuff but
the majority is doing anti- transcendentalist
Nora – tax incentive for building solar panels to protect the environment – individuals what they
wanted…representation of what individuals feel
Jacob – a casino 40 million visitors in a year 109,000 people in a day – no windows and no
knowing what time of day is the opposite of connecting to nature. In a casino with everyone else
Jenna – what I said before trying to be transcendentalist trying to be green – addressing Nora –
trying to be green by using solar panels but making life less simple – addressing Jacob – people
want to get as much money as possible – so many people going crazy for the lottery a trans
would say material is not important
Grant – going back to Kathryn said about NBA finals the Barkley’s center – similar to every
stadium for all sports not trans in a way that a stadium can attract people from many different
places root for the same idea/team – conforming.
Justin Chicago teachers on strike- a whole bunch of them – transcendentalists were rebellious –
one individual started it – if one person decides to be transcendentalist accept the consequence
Cami – two things about Lindsey’s occupy Wall Street – arguing they are the 99% - a majority –
watch a show a game – emotions for something you are not doing – witches are not real – solar
panels to make money to get green…
Ryan – back to shows Wicked – watching with the audience – based on reviews of it what other
people say the actors ding what the script and directors say.
Katya – my parents have built solar panels was not easy – minority – an effort in an attempt to
preserve the environment – only pay off after a decade or so – a poster that a girl submitted to
this website – two fold transcendentalist – took her time to make this poster – individuality trying
to get people to vote – someone being unique – to put themselves into our society and to learn
about the elections – to not be passive but to participate and to be individuals – this website also
an example because it is a piece of propaganda – other people can submit
Tyler – if everybody would switch to solar panels a lot of damage from the metal used – what the
US looks like from space at night – you see all the lights – southeast how much technology is
actually affecting America – trans would feel the world was being made synthetic
Sophia – to go back to sporting event theme – one of my lacrosse team and one of Knicks
players – put both of these pictures being on a team non trans idea – all wearing the same thing –
all following the same values – all agree – high school team and professional team the same –
supporting sports a big part of American culture.
Nora – I moved because technology people are creating even if it is to help the environment –
more than half of the farmers in America have internet access – using the environment of what is
good is doing the opposite
Lindsey – American relies on technology for everyday life – we are not as able to use our
resources – still 49% transcendentalist – technology makes a huge difference – sheep meadow in
NYC originally the city shows the destruction of the land – the way we have destroyed nature –
our people have shifted and have now taking a better approach – starting to appreciate the little
bits of nature left.
Frank – another great example – Times Square – center of Manhattan – relies most on
technology – wi – fi to be added electronic ads playing – New Year’s Eve conforming to society.
Katya – Lindsey says she does not know if we could survive without technology – think of the
show Revolution – the whole world loses power – they are still persevering in a new society out
of nothing. The simplicity of their life is appealing even though we would be in confusion.
Sydney – disagreeing with Katya on Revolution – they are basically fighting about getting power
back – really shows world has transformed into an anti-transcendental place – killing each other
over not having electricity. Chicago is a great city in America – also a home for the tallest
building in western hemisphere – building a super high tower in NYC – populations crazy in the
cities – modern technological advances in these big cities – people are conforming to live in
these big cities – don’t care how much it costs or how much land they are destroying –
David – people lined up in front of Front Locker – waiting outside for over a week – antitranscendentalist – spending so much money on luxuries
Faegenberg – back to Justin and technology – a kindergarten class using ipads in their classes –
completely ridiculous because they are 5 – a software designed for their curriculum – exposed to
technology they will use for the rest of their lives – taking over the next generation. What will
happen in 10-15 years – education should be something you do individually a transcendentalist
would say – learning how to do things yourself – but by relying on these apps not doing it
yourself – yes wall street occupy movement – tweets 200,000 to 800,000 in three days – all these
people at occupy wall street documenting with cell phones which is against transcendentalism –
maybe it is a trans act but they are not being individuals
Katya – transcendentalism in general a flaw in our arguments – invented some 200 years ago – a
trans then would say stuff against our cities everything we have create d- they propose that they
live in farms – but it couldn’t be a real idea…progress…not possible in this society – frozen in
time…
Maguire – would Thoreau have blogged from Walden pond?
Gaujean – the buildings you can see but not the stars…the artificial lights masking a sublime
experience every night, but we also have a picture of secession of Texas – petitioning – Lincoln
did say that secession was an act of rebellion
Jay – in Walden tried to live simply and realized it was hard – society in America not
transcendentalist – even though Thoreau tried to live simply but these Americans would rather
live in excess…
Caitlin – Americans in excess – mansion 175,000 square foot mansion – privately owned – how
Americans are not transcendentalist …to buy big houses you must work all the time instead of
having a good relationship with nature
Jacoob – the propaganda piece that you had Katya – girl used a computer to make that – so I
think that when reading Walden a 100% trans would never use a poster to convince someone else
as long as they are happy with what they believe – especially not using a computer…
Ingrid – back to Sophia and group activities – Girl Scouts going out into nature you would think
but the actual idea of being a girl scout the badge and sash listen to the group leader can’t display
civil disobedience a pledge to get in – every girl has to do it – they are going out into trans
activities the whole system is very conformist
Melanie – a ski mountain – looks like it would be transcendentalist – out into wilderness on
mountain but the trees are cut out for trails bridges built tearing up the natural situation
Erica – no tech – stuff would be simpler – easier to live a simple life without tech and power –
we can’t do that we are too accustomed to it – Hurricane sandy – hard to get around – couldn’t
do a lot of our school work – couldn’t study without lights – we do not even hand in our paper
son paper – use turnitin,com
Cami – Sophia – about teams – American culture – so popular with television…invention of tv
and cable – highest watched thing the super bowl – conforming to this team logo professional
athletes play to get money – trans a spiritual connection with what they do
Nora – girl scouts a whole concept yes pledging and learning from others – but how to live and
survive in nature a totally transcendentalist idea
Grant – Sheep’s Meadow Central Park as a whole – it is nature and trees and lush meadow –
right in the middle of the city – but also every time you go to central Park – construction is
always going on – places like NVC are non –trans
Sydney – another point – an image of National Parks – a map – these parks are huge – still there
today – still established – we care about preserving nature – go to camp out…go to view
wildlife…
Grant – a picture of Yellowstone – 2.2 million acres I feel that with these national parks – the
only way we could preserve nature and that is transcendentalist – people visit it to enjoy nature.
Sophia – two examples – to go back to joining groups – the girl scout thing Greek life a huge
part of American life – Jewish sororities – pledge to get into it – conformist – also Jay with
Black Friday – Costco – people love it and but huge quantities – 300 dollars on ketchup
Maguire – to what extent can you be a part of a big group and retain your individuality?
From here on, these comments were added after the debate.
Justin - In response to Sydney's yellowstone park argument- in Yellowstone, there are paved
roads en route to the park and there are paved roads inside the park. Obviously the roads did not
just pop up out of nowhere, they had to be built, which takes technology and money. Also, there
are park rangers at Yellowstone who are paid to be there and are in a work force (not
individuality). Lastly, it's safe to assume that most people don't walk to the national park, instead
they fly, drive or train there, which is totally against transcendentalist views.
Last word about transcendentalism as a whole, I believe it is slowly dying in America because
Americans can't live without technology. (you can refer to my picture of people using computers
on the street because they don't have power and couldn't live without their computers)
Katya - I think the question of the debate was flawed because America cannot be a
transcendentalist society - there is no one living in the U.S. that is 100% a transcendentalist or
who truly upholds these values. If we were to ask to what extent can America be a
transcendentalist society today, if it even can... Then we would have a better argument.
Ingrid - I just had another point to add to today's in class debate. I wanted to add onto ideas some
of my classmates had about social networking. I chose a picture of statistics about President
Obama's twitter and the "retweets" he received on his presidency related tweets to prove that the
United States is not transcendentalist. When one user "retweets" another it's voicing somebody
else's opinion rather than your own. By voicing another user's idea you lose some of your own
individuality and conform to somebody else's. It may not be one of the most conformist ideas but
it is showing less transcendentalism in the social networking world.
Jacob - I just wanted to add to the side of America, as a country, being transcendentalist. I was
going to show a picture of Yellow Stone Park and say that 26,000 people visit this park on a
given July day. The park allows people to connect with nature, which is what transcendentalists
thrive off.
Tyler - The comment that I would like to add is in relation with the nature aspect of
Transcendentalism. Sydney and Grant pointed out that national parks have been created to
preserve nature, proving that Americans care about nature to a certain extent. I respectfully
disagree with their statements based upon the image I included below of the Sequoia National
Park. This picture shows that our human effect of air pollution has allowed smog to destroy the
purity of the air here. This park has the highest air pollution level of all the US national parks.
We put aside separate land for a national park, but it isn't protected from our effect. If the air
pollution is like this in other parks, than this is not a very natural scene. This would display that
we really don't have a big regard for nature, or we would decide to fix it.
Melanie - 1. To the comment on the Broadway show Wicked, it is true that the actors and
actresses on stage are expressing emotions, but the emotions are not their own. The emotions
come from a script that was written by someone other than themself and they were told to
memorize and act out the script.
2. To the statement that citizens are creating solar panel homes, another thing that citizens are
doing is making electric cars (ex. smart cars). Although Smart cars appear to be a good idea, the
amount of pollution caused in the making of the car is more than the average amount of pollution
caused by a car that runs on gasoline.
3. Following up the comment that discussed national parks, the only reason the parks are there is
to keep the large majority of citizens from harming the wildlife as citizens have done throughout
the whole country. Also, there are 58 national parks in the United States, and 134 million
telephone poles in the country.
Erica - I pretty much said everything I wanted to say in the discussion and in my pictures, but
Ryan's girl scout response argued that girl scouts are transcendentalists because they like to
explore nature, but I believe girl scouts are not transcendentalists because they learn how to
explore nature from a leader. They are not exploring the world on their own in that case, they are
learning from a leader which is against the transcendentalist idea of learning what the world has
to offer individually. They are also an organized group of girls, which I feel is something a
transcendentalist would be against.
Josh - On the debate today, I feel like we did not spend enough time on the way much of
America revolves around material possessions, which I believe Jenna touched on. In a society
based around the principle of gaining wealth and immigrants coming here to the "streets paved
with gold", I believe Americans are greatly tied to their possessions and wealth. We do not see
many people taking the route of donating all of their possessions and living in the woods like
Throreau, nor do I see many Americans who believe that technology and material things poison
us and that we must simplify our lives. I believe that it is actually the opposite and with every
so-called advancement to make our lives easier, we are creating a more complex and difficult
society to function in. Contradicting that point, I believe that there is a sizable portion of
America who believes in the idea of charity and giving to others. This idea is nothing close to
giving away everything, but it is a kind gesture that makes me think America thinks more
emotionally than logically. This focus is prevalent after the many natural disasters in the past
decade and the amount of support and help that was donated.
Overall, my opinion changed slightly to more transcendentalist than to begin with, from
about 70% to 60%. I really liked the points about the various forms of civil disobedience in
America today such as the Occupy Wall Street movement. I found it funny that someone brought
up a document about the amount of social media posting about the movement which was just as
ironic as Thoreau writing and telling others to think for themselves.
Ryan - Hi so my additional comment for the debate is…One of the big arguments for the United
States not being a transcendentalist society is that we conform to society, and i think a perfect
example of this is Thanksgiving. People all over the country follow the same tradition of eating
turkey, potatoes, cranberry sauce, pumpkin pie, and all the other thanksgiving traditions. People
are not being individuals but rather they are conforming to the group and doing what everyone
else does. I think this is a huge example of the United States not being transcendentalist because
thanksgiving is so widespread and a huge amount of people follow the tradition.
Faegenberg - Hi I just wanted to add a comment that I had from the debate yesterday. I moved
from 90% non-transcendentalist to 100% non-transcendentalist during the discussion, because I
realized that America is so wrapped up in its possessions and materialistic things that there is
barely anything left that values nature, or is against conforming to a group. The issue of Girl
Scouts was brought up, which I linked to one of my photographs of my sleep away camp.
Originally, I had that photo as a transcendentalist aspect of society because campers choose what
they want to do. We made our own schedules as older campers and picked certain activities to
do. We are isolated from technology and other devices to experience camp without distractions.
However I realize that we all had counselors, campus leaders, directors, and other staff that
dictated rules to us. We had to follow and respect them. We were also in cabins of groups of
girls. We had to make decisions together as a group, which is not a transcendentalist idea. We
also were exposed to some technologies and left camp multiple times throughout the summer.
This goes against the view of experiencing the natural world because we still got some
privileges. While originally one might think that camp is transcendentalist, digging deeper will
show that it is not.