archived as http://www.stealthskater.com/Documents/Barnes_2.doc [pdf]
read more of the Philadelphia Experiment at http://www.stealthskater.com/PX.htm
note: because important websites are frequently "here today but gone tomorrow", the following was
archived from http://users.cihost.com/ata/chat.htm on January 21, 200 . This is NOT an
attempt to divert readers from the aforementioned website. Indeed, the reader should only read
this back-up copy if it cannot be found at the original author's site.
Philadelphia Experiment chat archive #2 (of 3)
March 12, 1999
On Friday March 12th, 1999, we welcomed researcher Marshall Barnes back for another chat about
the Philadelphia Experiment and his other investigations.
Besides writing and producing videos on the PX, Marshall Barnes has been a guest on the Art Bell
Show, the Laura Lee Show, A&E's Unexplained, and the X-Zone radio show. He can be reached at
true.x-file.news@n2news.com.
This transcript has been edited so that questions match up with responses. Non PX comments have
been omitted.
Marshall Barnes: Anytime anyone wants to ask me something, go ahead. I don't care if we get started
early.
Yvonne: I'm sure you have been asked this 50 million times, but when is the release for your video?
Marshall Barnes: OK. The video will be done at the end of the month. I'm working on it tonight as a
matter-of-fact. It's a feature length production whereas I originally thought it
would only be an hour.
Yvonne: That's wonderful, Marshall! I hope you have great success with the video.
Marshall Barnes: Has anyone read the View Zone story at
http://www.viewzone.com/philadelphia.html yet?
Johnny: No, not yet.
Yvonne: Unfortunately no. I found out about it just before I came in here.
Marshall Barnes: The View Zone story turned out pretty good. Joe Turner did a good job of keeping
the facts straight.
Schnitz: What is the View Zone?
Marshall Barnes: View Zone is a web magazine.
Marshall Barnes: In case you don't know, the View Zone article is about how The Unexplained [A&E
cable tv network program] did to me what NOVA did to Budd Hopkins. So I was
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lied to in order for them to get me on their show. Then they took out all my
evidence and had Robert Goerman and John Reilly on there spreading irrelevant
claptrap. In the end, they said the PX was a hoax.
Marshall Barnes: The View Zone address is http://www.viewzone.com/. So anyway, I decided to go
after The Unexplained and expose what they did instead of just complaining about
it. I am an investigator, after all.
Yvonne: Has there been any response from them?
Marshall Barnes: The article at View Zone tells all about what happened before, during, and after the
show was aired, and how I got the evidence to prove that what The Unexplained
did was a scam. They lied to their viewers, and they planned it that way.
Yvonne: That must have been very frustrating for you. "Truth in the media" ... Hah!
Marshall Barnes: They haven't responded yet because it's too new. They'll be mad as hell, I'm sure,
but what the heck. They evidence against them is solid.
Yvonne: Just be careful, Marshall. That's a big boat you are rocking.
Marshall Barnes: Yeah, Yvonne. I was pissed. But then again, I got even.
Yvonne: Nothing feels better than getting even :> and having the last laugh!
Schnitz: I want to know more … a lot more!
John C: Marshall, I am new to the PX. Please tell me where to start and I want to know more too!
Marshall Barnes: The best place to start is the William Moore book. Do you know which one that is?
Marshall Barnes: OK, John C, the William Moore book is called Project Invisibility. Amazon.com
has it as well as a lot of other sites.
John C: Thank you. I will begin my journey.
RoyL: Ok, thx Marshall.
Schnitz: How are the Philadelphia Experiment and the Montauk Project connected? How is Tesla
connected?
John C: Tesla and Einstein had a role -- correct?
Schnitz: Tesla's experiments with frequency were the predecessor to these experiments, yes?
Marshall Barnes: Tesla is said to have been involved, but I can't prove it. There are some people at the
Tesla Society who say they can, though.
Johnny: Did Einstein try to leave the PX?
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Marshall Barnes: I can't confirm anything about Tesla with the PX. However, it would make a lot of
sense to have him involved because of the power considerations for such a
project.
Yvonne: His technology was used, correct?
Marshall Barnes: As far as Tesla goes I can't confirm. You all have to realize, I'm an investigator.
Not at all like these others that run around and say any old thing they want. When
I say it, I mean it and I can back it up. If I can't, I don't say it.
Marshall Barnes: The only way to prove Tesla's involvement is to get papers from his estate, or from
the Government. The Government just destroyed a ton of PX related documents
last year when they thought I was getting close.
Johnny: How do you know the documents were destroyed?
Marshall Barnes: The National Archives shredded tons of stuff and ONR said that it was all an
accident. I don't believe it and I can prove that it was when the ONR knew I was
getting close because the Public Affairs Director...
Marshall Barnes: That I got one of his officers lying about the information sheet in print.
Yvonne: Really, Marshall? Idiots!
RoyL: Refresh my memory. What was the Philadelphia Experiment?
Yvonne: Do a search on the web for PX, Schnitz. There are some really good sites out there.
Schnitz: I've got to go! How can I keep in touch?
Marshall Barnes: Schnitz, email true.x-file.news@n2news.com
Yvonne: Have you ever been threatened by any of these people?
Marshall Barnes: Yes, I've been threatened. Yes, I'm always armed.
Johnny: Do you think your phones are tapped?
Marshall Barnes: No comment on any of that kind of stuff, Johnny.
Johnny: What other projects have you done besides the PX?
Marshall Barnes: I helped try to track down the Kehoe Brothers. They were the white supremacists
that had the shoot out with the Ohio Highway Patrol in 1997. I also did a sting
operation against a rogue "psychic spy" that netted a lot of interesting data about
remote viewing abuses. This was in 1994 before all the stuff about remoteviewing made headlines.
Johnny: Who was the spy working for?
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Marshall Barnes: I was not able to identify who the spy was working for. But I could shut him down
at any time. He wasn't really a national security threat. In fact, he's more of a
threat to you and me because he said "I am for the Federal Government and
against the American people..." Remote viewing is an interesting tool if it is used
positively.
Yvonne: What made you decide to devote yourself to the PX existence? Especially knowing the
danger you have placed yourself in?
Marshall Barnes: I haven't really devoted myself to the PX existence. But there is no evidence that it
was a hoax.
Yvonne: Wrong choice of words...
CuriousGeorge: Is there any hard evidence for Al Bielek's claims that up to 4 alien races are in contact
with the U.S. government in connection to PX and the Montauk Project?
Marshall Barnes: There is no hard evidence for most of what Bielek talks about, let alone any aliens of
any kind.
Marshall Barnes: The bottom line on the PX is this. (1) There's no evidence that stands scrutiny that it
was a hoax. (2) The science behind the invisibility has been identified and
confirmed. (3) All of the facts that support it have been suppressed, lied about, or
worse.
Yvonne: With technology surpassing our wildest dreams these days, how come the PX hasn't been
recreated? Or has it?
Neuromancer: So have their been further investigations into the PX? Any further experiments...
Marshall Barnes: The PX has allegedly been recreated on a small scale by Stan Deyo, as well as some
guys at the Battelle Memorial Institute and the guys I mentioned earlier from the
Tesla Institute.
Johnny: Have you tried to recreate parts of it?
Marshall Barnes: I have proved experimentally the basis for what Dr. 'Rinehart' said, and that's in my
video and at the View Zone article. It was also what The Unexplained didn't want
anyone to see or know about.
Neuromancer: Where can I get a copy of your video?
Marshall Barnes: My video will be released in April. It will be orderable from Blockbuster Video in
their stores and maybe online too. It will be announced as to where and how you
can get it.
Yvonne: What are the odds of getting a signed copy???
Marshall Barnes: I'll figure that out some time, Yvonne. Right now, I'm just trying to keep from
getting dizzy while I track all these questions!
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Yvonne: What is your opinion on to why the Government and Military wants to cover it all up?
Marshall Barnes: Invisibility is also still being pursued by the Air Force as well as the Navy. The Air
Force is the most heavily involved, though.
Johnny: Using stealth-only or PX technology?
Marshall Barnes: The Air Force is using a combination of different systems. One is with special
coatings. Another is a variation of the PX. I saw them test that in August 1994
near Wright-Patterson Air Force Base.
Yvonne: Like the concept of "cloaking"?
Johnny: What kind of variation on the PX?
Marshall Barnes: The variation I'm referring to is a EMF around the craft that ionizes the air so that it
refracts light in such a way that it looks invisible.
Neuromancer: I was able to get a good look at the ship [the USS Eldridge is now in service with the
Greek Navy] while in Greece a while back. They covered the damage pretty well
before selling it off I guess. Any word about the missing logs?
Marshall Barnes: On missing logs, there have been a lot of stories. The big problem is that the
experiment happened before the ship got a commissioned crew. So how do you
find records for that? Especially if it was a 'top-secret' test that they've already
destroyed evidence to cover up? The answer is that you probably don't.
Neuromancer: Gone the way of the dodo, I guess. I'd pull my teeth to see those logs.
Marshall Barnes: Hey, Necromancer. There is a guy who talked with some members of the Greek
crew and posted an article on the Net. You should track that down. Do a search
using the word "Leon" and see what you come up with.
Yvonne: I'm sorry. Not too familiar with military operations. But if there wasn't a commissioned crew
on board when they did the experiment, who were the men that were on board?
Marshall Barnes: The men onboard the ship would have been a "skeleton crew" probably made up of
volunteers who were from other ships that were sunk or damaged. These men
would have been waiting for other assignments.
Yvonne: Innocent bystanders? That's sad.
Marshall Barnes: I was able to document this process. Such as it is, this would make finding the men
involved more than difficult. What is even worse is that the men that were part of
the official crew heard about it. But the one that I've been able to track down is
scared to talk on the record. He heard about the experiment when he first joined
the ship on Sept. 1943.
Yvonne: What did he have to say "off the record"? And who told him about the experiment?
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Marshall Barnes: So unlike what you hear from people like Mack Shelton, Robert Goerman, Jacques
Vallee, or Benjamin LeBlanc, there's a lot more to this story than most let on.
There's also a lot of utter rubbish that I've had to deal with too. Like the crap that
Howard Strom aka "Drue" was putting out there. </< P>
Yvonne: Jacques Vallee.... grrrrrr
Neuromancer: So give me the scoop if you can. Was the PX responsible for distorting time or was
that all a hoax?
Marshall Barnes: There is no evidence currently available that shows that the PX was responsible for
distorting time or that there were any aliens involved. NONE.
Neuromancer: I would highly doubt alien intervention myself. But the concept of bending time with
the PX would be an interesting prospect.
Marshall Barnes: Neuromancer, you can't bend time that way. That would take the strength of a black
hole.
Neuromancer: There were rumors of travel to future time by some of the crew, no? Fact or fiction?
Marshall Barnes: If you really want to know what I think about all that … Like if someone had a gun
to my head and really wanted my true thoughts...
Neuromancer: I figured that it was pure BS. There is so much surrounding the PX that you'd need
years to dig up the truth...
Yvonne: Holding [a] gun to Marshall's head! :} Yes, I want to know!!!
Marshall Barnes: I'd say that Bielek was involved in Montauk and there was some truth to what
happened there. He was brainwashed to link all the PX stuff with the Montauk
with him doing the time-travel thing. It was a screen memory. Now I can't prove
that, but he can't prove his story either. I also can't prove that he's deliberately
lying . But I was able to prove that about Drue.
Johnny: Firing weapons while invisible? Would the smoke, etc. still be visible or only if it was outside
the magnetic field?
Marshall Barnes: Good question, Johnny. I dealt with that in my book. Here's how I was able to
figure out how they would do it. They would use the invisibility to get into
proper firing position, and then lose the EMF to do a surprise attack. Or they
could use it to escape an attack. How many of our ships and men could we have
saved if the kamakazi planes couldn't see them from the air?
Neuromancer: Wasn't the whole point of Project Rainbow? To make the ship "invisible" to mines -not literally invisible to the eye? At least in the first stages of the experiment...
Marshall Barnes: No, Neuromancer. That's ONR disinfo. The invisibility to mines thing had already
been accomplished by that time. The ONR says that degaussing was confused
with optical invisibility because degaussing makes the ship "invisible" to
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magnetic mines. So they say people must have heard someone talking about
making a ship "invisible" and thought it meant to sight.
Neuromancer: Ahhh....
Marshall Barnes: Not even in the first stages of the experiment. 'Rinehart' says something about there
being talk of using a magnetic field to repel incoming projectiles. But that never
went anywhere.
Neuromancer: Was Tesla a part of the experiments? Or was he dead at the time of the testing as rumor
had it? So many questions... ;-)
Marshall Barnes: Tesla was dead in Jan 1943. What he did before that is anybody's guess.
Marshall Barnes: You see, my job is to get data that can prove it happened and can prove there was a
cover-up. I've got lots that says it was possible and tons that shows there's been a
cover-up. I've got people on audio tape and in documents and letters making
statements that are lies, fraud, and various forms of obfuscation. People don't do
that unless there is REALLY something to hide. Tesla info does me no good
unless it's linked to something that I can point to and say "Here it is!" Fortunately,
I have something like that with the 'Rinehart' material. I have some plans for
investigating Tesla connections further, but those have to be confidential at the
moment.
Johnny: Do you believe some Eldridge crew members were "fused" to the Eldridge?
Neuromancer: I heard about that too, Johnny. Some of the guys in Greece confirmed it to me. But
were they telling the truth?
Marshall Barnes: The crew members could have become part of the ship if the EMF interfered with
the electrical forces that hold the atoms of their bodies together. If it only lasted a
split second, they would have started to fall into the deck but then solidified again.
That's exactly what the legend has always said.
Yvonne: And what do you believe?
Marshall Barnes: Now let's look at that. Who's going to think up a story like that? It's too fantastic.
But there in Physics: Volume 2 by Richard Wolfson and Jay Pasachoff, it talks
about a similar theoretical situation on page 510, Chapter 20 under "Electrical
Charge". That's a college physics book, BTW.
Yvonne - :}
Neuromancer: The crews in Greece mentioned several repairs to the hull and bulkheads. Perhaps as a
result of the experiments. Many of them hated that ship. Scared to death. What
about the reports that the Eldridge was seen in Virginia during the experiment. More
fiction?
Marshall Barnes: The reports about the teleportation to Virginia are interesting but not verifiable.
They are interesting because I studied what might have theoretically caused such
a teleportation. They are 2 important parts to this issue...
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Neuromancer: The reports of crew transportations are iffy at best, but the ship is surely plausible.
Marshall Barnes: First, there is the fact that the ship was said to have been inside the EMF when it
happened. All talk about the ship actually dematerializing are inaccurate or
deliberate lies. Now, if the EMF had become so dense that it became like a giant
electron, it could have theoretically done something called quantum tunneling.
Quantum tunneling is performed by electrons and other particles all the time. The
process of quantum tunneling is identical to what is said about the Eldridge
teleporting.
Neuromancer: Do you think that they would have had enough juice to do that? I mean to be that
dense.
Marshall Barnes:
Well Neuromancer, that's where Tesla could have come in. Makes it rather
interesting, doesn't it? I have in fact described the EMF as having been like a
giant electron in my past lectures. Now there is a company called UNITEL that is
talking about using the same type of EMF quantum tunneling effect for space
travel! Their web site is at http://www.unitelnw.com/, I believe.
[StealthSkater note: see doc pdf URL ]
Yvonne: Writing that down …thanks.
Marshall Barnes: I might add that when I gave a press conference about my investigation of the ONR
in 1997, the media bought the whole story without any problem. But they
couldn't figure out why the Navy would go to such extremes to cover up
invisibility. They said, "There's got to be something more to this". When I said,
"Well, there is the matter of the teleportation part of the story", they freaked!
Marshall Barnes: I was also told in 1992 that NASA was working on a similar project secretly. Now
this was before UNITEL got on the web and all that. The key is what is called
"Macroscopic" quantum tunneling. If that's what was unintentionally
discovered during the PX, then that would be one good reason to keep it secret!
Neuromancer: Do you have a site on the Net yourself? Know of any reputable ones. I'm looking for
good facts, not wartime stories.
Yvonne: If you want to subscribe to the PX mailing list, send a message to philadelphiaexperimentrequest@rustshield.com. Type in "subscribe" as the only text in the message body.
Marshall Barnes: All right, let me just lecture a bit. This is the truth about the PX as it can be proved.
(1) Carlos Allende was NOT the only witness. Robert Goerman keeps making
this claim when he should know better. Allende (whose real name is Carl Allen)
is not even a good witness since much of what he said is wrong. My take on
Carl/Carlos is that he probably heard about the PX but didn't see it. Remember,
the sailor from the Eldridge told me that he had heard about it when he was
assigned to the ship and so had other crew members. So there's nothing stopping
Allende from hearing about it too. I run across many people who have old
relatives who have since died that had heard about it as well.
Marshall Barnes: Hey, JimS! I remember you from before! What's happening?
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JimS:
Marshall, I've seen your pictures proving that light can be refracted around objects for
camouflage. But have you personally seen any proof that it can be done with magnetism?
Marshall Barnes:
OK, JimS. The photos don't show light refracted *around* the object. The
refraction causes the light from above and on the sides to reflect in front of the
object. If light was refracting around, it would cause an entirely different effect.
As far as it being done with magnetism, it has to involve an EMF strong enough
to create the right conditions in the air for refraction to occur. I saw that in 1994
near Wright-Patterson. Paul Hill talks about it in his book Unconventional Flying
Objects. All you have to do is understand how mirages work and what kinds of
things intense EMF can do. And it's pretty obvious that it could. No rocket
science here.
Marshall Barnes - There's a review that Aviary member Hal Putoff did for the National Institute of
Discovery Science (Robert Bigelow's organization). Go to their site and look up
the review of Paul's book. Puthoff unwittingly confirms the physics part that
deals with obscuring the lines of UFOs through the plasma sheath that surrounds
the craft. This sheath involves absorption of light as well as refraction breakdown
of the air the way 'Rinehart' described it. You take that field and manipulate it so
that it has the right properties, and you'll get pretty damn close.
[StealthSkater note: see doc pdf URL ]
Marshall Barnes: Go look at http://www.viewzone.com/philadelphia55.html (I think) and look at the
cover of Physics Volume2. There you'll see dielectric breakdown of the air the
way 'Rinehart' described it. Do a study of mirages. 'Rinehart' said that they were
trying to create a "mirage effect". Go read the Moore book very carefully, pages
180-201. It's all there.
johnny1: Has the USA worked with other nations on PX technology?
Marshall Barnes: Johnny1, the USA wants to keep this stuff secret from other nations. The only ones
I can see us working on it with would be the UK. There are currently radar stealth
planes that I believe we may have had a hand in helping the UK with.
Yvonne: Goodness Marshall, there are only 24 hours in a day! I'll be up for weeks tracking all this
information down. You have done an excellent job!
Marshall Barnes: BTW, this Mack Shelton guy has this page he calls The PX: Quest For The Truth.
Now he claims that Moore stole 'Rinehart' from the Dr. Rinehart character in the
book Thin Air. Shelton says Moore stole the whole dialog that Rinehart says
word-for-word from Thin Air. Now if you look at Thin Air, you see that the
physics that the Rinehart talks about there was based on the idea that the Unified
Field Theory was completed and was applied in their little scenario. One of the
first things out of Moore's Rinehart's mouth on page 181 is "The Unified Field
Theory has remained incomplete in structure-even today".
[StealthSkater note: Mack's old "Quest-for-Truth" site is archived at doc
pdf URL ]
9
Marshall Barnes: There is nothing in the physics that he discusses later that has any dependency on the
Unified Field Theory. Mack Shelton is full of crap. There's no excuse for that
kind of error unless he's just too stupid to know what he's reading. And if that's
the case, he's got no business in this business. Period.
johnny1: Where all can we purchase your books and videos from?
Marshall Barnes: OK Johnny1, all my stuff is in temporary limbo while we change business structures.
However, next month things will be available again but from new sources. There
will be an announcement. Subscribe to the Philadelphia Experiment mailing list
because word about that and many other wonderful things always ends up there.
[Send a message to philadelphiaexperiment-request@rustshield.com and type in
"subscribe" as the only text in the message body.]
JimS: So you're saying it was probably done entirely with a plasma sheath around the ship? No need
for gravitational effects at all?
Yvonne: Hmmmmmm …
Marshall Barnes: Absolutely no need for gravitational effects AT ALL! When people throw that kind
of stuff around, the skeptics howl with laughter because they know that's
scientifically impossible. When they hear me start talking about 'Rinehart' and
refraction, the skeptics get scared because they know I'm well within the range of
the probable.
Marshall Barnes: That's what all the big lies have centered around -- 'Rinehart' and optical invisibility.
ONR doesn't want you to know about that because the moment you realize that
optical invisibility could have worked, then you want to start askin' about the
teleportation stuff. They can't have that! They know we don't need them to prove
this stuff. We just need the money and resources to experiment ourselves. That's
what Vallee's Anatomy of a Hoax was all about lying to keep scientists from
taking it seriously.
Marshall Barnes: Now. Unfortunately, I've got to get going BUT I will be chatting again Monday
night [3/15/99] at the Laura Lee chat room at 7:30 EST, I think. It will be
announced on the Net. So show up then! I got to go now. Bye. Thanks for
comin'!
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