A:
I mentioned that I met (?Gorkey) when we were at my aunt's place on Dexter
Avenue. Now (?Gorkey's) sister was down the street. Her name is, I can't
remember now.
S:
You're talking about the Armenian artist, (?Adouian)
A:
Armenian artist, Manoog (?Andouian) who was with ---- Hagopian in Watertown
on Hazel Street at one time and then he left there to go to New York to pursue his
art because that is what he lived for.
S:
Of course, you might mention that he was born in the Van area.
A:
Of course, he was born in Van and he, my uncle who died, I said, recently, knew
the entire family in detail. And so (?Caitlin Mooradian) came over and
interviewed my uncle about his own uncle and we were, I had been at that time
president of the Armenian Students' Association in Boston where I saw (?Arshel
Gorkey, Manoog Andouian), I asked him if he would be willing to come and
speak to the ASA crowd. He said yes, so we had a meeting at the International
Institute at 190 Beacon Street at that time.
S:
Approximately what year was that?
A:
1933-4, yes, 1933, I think or 4.I can't pinpoint it down and he came over to, we
had a blackboard and he took and made a beautiful profile of a girl and started
erasing it. Don't try to copy, he says, my camera does a much better job. So then
he started explaining what they are trying to do when they talk about modern art,
impressionistic, or (?realist) or the others. And this was a very fascinating lecture
we had with him. Later on, of course, I visited him also in his Union Square, New
York studios and he was a very fascinating person. Anyway, we'll go back to my
studies. After I finished MIT, there was no work available. We ended up doing
some sales work in Milwaukee, traveled through the country with Richard ----
who's now in Fresno and then came back to Boston and worked, started working
for a (?Thompson & Lichter) company in Boston, materials testing laboratory.
From there, I went to (?Jackson, Morlin) and engineering firm, very well known.
S:
What branch of engineering are you?
A:
I'm structural engineer, buildings. At that time when I was with (?Jackson, Morlin
and Company), we did the Wright Brothers' wind tunnel for MIT and I was sent
to be the field engineer, supervise the construction. And while I was there, when
the wind tunnel was opened it was a very famous occasion for educational and
aeronautics field and Life Magazine sent photographers and they took a picture.
And my picture is in Life Magazine. You know how much? Less than an inch big
on top of the building looking through the leveler, but my picture was, I was
teasing people I said, my picture's in Life Magazine (laughs). Anyhow, we ended
up from (?Jackson, Morlin) I went to another firm known as (?Morton C. Tuttle)
who later on called me to be their chief draftsman. When I went back to (?Stone
Webster) when the war began to threaten all around and no private concern could
do any work. You had to do the only thing you could do was defense work
S:
These were the 40's?
A:
Yes, starting in 1939, then into '40
S:
Were you married then?
A:
Not yet, no. I went back to (?Tuttle) for one year again, but then again went back
to (?Stone Webster) and then I went in charge of a group. I was squad chief for
concrete. We went down to Richmond, Virginia to build a ship yard there, but the
ship yard was cancelled among other things and early in 1942, we came back to
Boston and I was immediately put into the, on working for the atom project, the
Manhattan project. And I started first by checking the design of the (?pilot plans
for ----)
S:
Did you know what it was while you were doing it?
A:
No. We knew it was important but we didn't know what it was. It was absolutely
top secret affair in the entire U.S., the Manhattan project.
S:
That's why I was wondering if
A:
So I worked with the Manhattan project from its beginning until the end. Until the
bomb was exploded. By the way, while the bomb was being exploded, it went
from ---- to Japan and at that time my brother Gerard was an officer in a (Coast
artillery) in ---- and he saw the actual flight and knew (?Tibitts) and the others, he
met them. He had (?Tibitts) helmet when he was coming back and fell into the
ocean some of it. At any rate, I worked with them and then when the war was
over I went to Canada to work for (?Stone Webster) as a specialist on some work
we did in Canada and came back again to Boston and then (?Stone Webster) went
on strike and this gave me an opportunity to go a very famous architectural firm,
(?Perry, Shaw, Hepburn) who are the original people who did colonial
Williamsburg restoration. And I worked for (?Perry, Shaw, Hepburn) for five
years and then opportunity came and in 1951 1 opened my own office as a
consulting engineer in structures. And (?Perry, Shaw, Hepburn) became my best
clients and then eventually I had another very fine client
S:
(Perry, Shaw, Hepburn) have a different name now.
A:
Now, yes, of course, (?Perry, Shaw, Hepburn) all three had died and Dean is the
survivor and it's Perry, Dean, something, and Rogers. Our friend (?Kalalian) is
there working. I can't right off the bat remember. Then they became my best
clients at that time for whom I did for 21 years all kinds of buildings. Among my
other clients, was (?Campbell and Aldridge). Mr. Campbell was the first cousin of
Nelson Rockefeller, former governor of New York and with them I did a great
deal of work in six dormitories in Dartmouth College and I did a great deal of
work for (?Campbell and Aldridge). Now among other smaller clients, then by
1972 when the depression began to hit '71, the lease expired and in the meantime,
Perry, Shaw and Hepburn had died. Perry had a heart attack and then there was
not enough work around town so I closed my office rather than go through it and
went to work for six years in Portland. While I was in Portland, by the way, I
conducted a series of Armenian History and Cultural programs in the University
of Maine at ---- But it was actually in the (?Westbrook) College where we had the
meetings and there was, by the way, a very lovely Armenian girl who was the
librarian at Westbrook college. And she arranged the meetings in Westbrook
College for our Armenian program.
S:
Well, were their any Armenians attending?
A:
I had something like 35 students, lecture listeners and we had a wonderful time,
fun and all. And I called Ara Avakian to speak there. I Richard Tashian to give a
lecture on Armenian Art and so on. So we were very much involved in the
community life in Portland until a little over a year ago then I returned by to
Boston. Now I'm working for a California based firm, very famous (?Kaiser)
engineers who are specialists on very large projects, including subway
development and we're now developing the Orange Line of the Boston to replace
the present overhead structure on Washington Avenue. So I'm still working.
S:
You've done community work every since I remember.
A:
Well, that's my hobby. I told you my professional work.
S:
Now, tell me about, I believe, the Students' Association.
A:
All right. I've been with the Armenian Students' Association from the day I
graduated high school almost. My brother was active, 1928. The Armenian
Students' Association started 1910 but you couldn't become a member until you
were a high school graduate. So when I graduated in 1928, English High School,
my brother had already been active in the ASA, one year. And he was an officer
and they came to our house to plan for the meeting. And during the planning they
needed somebody else to participate in a mock trial business and they pulled me
in. So from 1928 on I became active. 1931, 32, I was Boston branch President. It
was my senior year and my brother was president of the MIT Armenian club, I
was active there. Then we had a ---- in Boston, an outcome of the group that sang
for (?Suni ), Krikor (?Suni ) at the symphony hall in Boston during the ---- in
1930
S:
Didn't Harvard some kind of a
A:
No, this was Massachusetts, their
S:
I think a booklet came out
A:
Yes. Well, Krikor (?Suni), the famous composer, musician
S:
Was he from Philadelphia?
A:
From Philadelphia, came here to prepare for the program and after he left the
people who organized the choral group felt it's a shame to disband. So they came
together and formed this group which is musical, theatrical, musical which was
dance. And this group, Armenians, came together and met to prepare and concerts
and to give concerts.
S:
How long did that go on?
A:
I went for about 7-8 years. I sang at symphony hall, I was president ----, Aram
(?Brazilian) now in Florida was president at one time and we were very active and
very enjoyable group. Then after that, of course, the AGBU Junior League was
started and we used to be active in that. They used to met at the Statler Hotel in
the 1930's. And I have records of some of those meetings.
S:
How about the (?Vanessa, Vasburagon)
A:
(?Vasburagon) group, yes. Gregory's father was the active one. There are two
(?Vasburagon groups). The one that now meets
S:
When did they start?
A:
They start in mid 30's but Gregory's father, ----, Krikor ---- that's by the way that's
where the Krikor comes, Krikor ---- was on the non-Dashnag side and that's
where our family was active in. But I wasn't very much. It was my mother and
we'd go to the picnics and so forth.
S:
---- is still active, isn't he?
A:
Yes, ---- is still active. That's the Dashnag oriented group. They claim no
partisanship but they always met in the St. Stephen's church, they always have
Hagopian saying the grace
S:
Is he (?Vanitzee)?
A:
No, this is Hagopian, the reverend.
S:
They have a journal that comes out.
A:
Yes.
S:
----
A:
---- and you know what ---- is.
S:
That's the name of the village.
A:
No. (?Varak) was a famous monetary near Van where ---- was the main abbot
before he became ----
S:
I think that's where Gorkey lived in that area.
A:
Yes, in that general area. So that's it brings it back to our life here.
S:
You didn't tell me about your family and so forth.
A:
With the ASA I became national president, 18 years I've been trustee, I was
trustee of the ASA, I'm an honorary member. They voted me an honorary
member. I'm a life member of the ASA. Of course you know, that NAASR,
National Association for Armenian Studies and Research, the very first meeting
was in my office in Boston.
S:
In your own office.
A:
In my own private engineering office.
S:
Who was there?
A:
Who was there? Only five of us started. It was Ara Avakian, Haig Der Manuelian,
myself, (?Manoogian) and James ----, now professor at ----. It was only the five
that when we first met to decide what to do. Then the next two persons came and
joined was (?Kolikian), Mark, and Gen (?Zartarian) and we used to meet in the
offices rather than in any home because we wanted to make sure that we had time
to seriously consider the procedures before, not to be upset with the
S:
Let's see that was about 26 years ago, wasn't it?
A:
Twenty-six years, yes.
S:
Whatever the date is.
A:
Well, 55, I think.
S:
Then they later met, I remember, Avakian's house.
A:
Well, this is afterwards, you see, after we became a little bit larger
S:
The following year you mean?
A:
No. See the idea was first to make it nonpolitical and non-partisan group and so
gradually it was expanded each time we were trying to make sure that people
from all elements were invited so it wouldn't be one type. Then, of course, G. J.
Gregory came in, became active and, of course, my own worker, Richard
(?Malhousian) became, he was working in my office so I asked him to join. He
was working for me ---- became active in it, Jack ---- became active in it. These
are people all the
S:
The founders
A:
Original group, founders. But it started, yourself Helen, why not mention. By the
time the founders list was composed, there were quite a few people. But the first
meeting of only five people
S:
That's very interesting, so many people
A:
(?Zabel Tomisian) was another
S:
So many people claim they were at the first meeting. (.Laughs)
A:
It was in my office of five people only and that's where we met to see what we
should do, what should be the procedures we should start with.
S:
It's done a remarkable job.
A:
Here I was a director of the first board and I was chairman of the first convention
S:
Annual meeting
A:
First annual meeting at the Sheridan Commander
S:
Is that where it was?
A:
Yes. That's where it was and then gradually, of course, it's become a one-man job
almost. I don't mind saying it because that's what it is. Unfortunately, because it's
going to be difficult for continuation of an organization when any organization
depends on one or two people to carry continuously.
S:
I think Haig Der Manuelian was also one of the early
A:
Oh, yes. Haig Der Manuelian, I said so.
S:
Did you mention Haig?
A:
Yes. Haig Der Manuelian, Ara Avakian, myself
S:
Oh, yes, that's right, that's right, you did, I forgot. He was one of the original
A:
Yes, the original five that met, we formed this group, the attorney Haig Der
Manuelian, very brilliant boy, Harvard graduate, attorney. Well, anyway, that
much
S:
So you've done really quite a bit of organizational work.
A:
Then I became active in the AGBU in Watertown. I was member of the New
England district committee, vice-president. Then when the Armenian school
started, nobody mentions it now, I was the general chairman of the educational
committee which brought about organization which. Started the school. I have the
records to show. You don't have to believe it, I’ll show you the records (laughs).
S:
You're also a collector of Armenian memorabilia and (?artifacts)
A:
Well, of course, anybody who is as interested in Armenian things as much as I am
then can't help collect. And anything that's Armenian, that comes my way, I will
buy
S:
You're a bit of a ----, I don't know what stamp collecting is called.
A:
---- I have perhaps the very best of stamp collections of Armenian stamps perhaps
in America. Now the famous (?Chilingarian) of London who's collection was sold
when he died, I don't know whether it was broken up or not, but (?Chilingarian) is
the one who wrote Armenian Russian ----, Armenian part of Russian ---- and he
was very famous in London for the British Royal Academy of Russian ---(?Chilingarian's) collection came my way but at that time I could not buy it. But I
have bought many famous collections of Armenians and I have an extensive
collection of Armenian stamps including those on covers originally from Yerevan
and Russian stamps on covers from Yerevan back in the 19th century. In addition,
by the way, a very unusual incident, one day I was called and there were some
Armenian letters from Venice, written in the 1690's in Armenian, written 1690's,
1692 before St. (?Lazar). I have five written to an Armenian merchant in Venice
in Armenian that dates back before the 1700's, before 1700. Then, of course,
Armenian coins. I cannot compete with (?Bedukian), Paul (?Bedukian) who is the
famous collector and others who made it their business. ---- and others who made
it their business because mine is a collection, it's a hobby.
S:
But it's very remarkable.
A:
I bought a couple of originals of Sarkis (?Hatchadourian) a painting of his own
wife (?Vava), I have in the house and another one which I cherish very much, the
Armenian orphans in Etchmiadzin 1915.
S:
What is that?
A:
These two.
S:
Who did that one in 1915?
A:
Sarkis (?Hatchadourian).
S:
(He did that and you have it?
A:
I bought it from his wife (?Vava Sarkis Hatchadourian) And, of course, I have
quite a few paintings of the Armenian miniaturist (?Abraham Koukanian's) works.
You saw in the house before we came.
S:
The Persian?
A:
Persian type, miniaturist but I have some, 10 others that I haven't mounted and
then I put away. So whatever Armenian comes along, first Armenian books, as
you saw, two copies of ---- original, Armenia, ----, Voyage into the ----, I have it
in the house.
S:
A French book
A:
No, it's an English translation, 1718 and I have, what can I say,
S:
Missionary type books
A:
Well, we've collected a great deal of the missionary books because they tell of
Armenian life in Turkey in those days including Dr. Ushers, An American
Physician in Turkey, which is the name of the book. Incidentally, it might be
curious for you people to know how I discovered the Usher's son because he was
not known to exist. Nobody knew where they were and Helen Sarkissian, I think
it is, of the ---- said she had tried to find out something about the Ushers and
couldn't. Well, what happened is that when I went to Portland there was an
Amirian there and I called the Amirian and it turned out to be an elderly woman
who, Virginia Amirian, who's sister's son was the conductor of (?Portland
Symphony Orchestra), Paul (?Vermeld). So she asked me, why don't you come to
the concert? And told me that she and her sister, Margarite, had seats K 3 and 5 at
the symphony. So I went to the symphony and intermission I met this. By the
way, another nephew is the famous Armenian character actor, (?Akim Tamiroff)
was another sister's son.
S:
The name is different.
A:
Poetic license. But you see, Margarite married a French person, (?Vermeld). And
this Paul (?Vermeld) is Margarite's son. Virginia Amirian had not married. So
when we asked how come to Amirians to see if we had any relations, and they
said they were born in (?Baku) and father was an oil engineer and they went to
Russia, Moscow for higher education, then they came to America during the
revolution, get out of the country. Well, anyway, the second time I went to the
concert and spoke to Virginia Amirian, she said, there's an American in back who
says he was born in Armenia but she wouldn't point out, she wasn't sure. Then
when I went back to my apartment I see Sidney Ussagr, spelled U-s-s-a-g-r which
he explains why it's uss in the book, Dr. (?Ussher) does. And I called up, sure
enough it's turned out to be Dr. (?Ussher's) son and he came to my office in
Portland and we had a chat and we exchanged gifts. And incidentally, he gave me
a couple of (?booklets) of (?Ussher's) himself.
S:
What are the names of these books?
A:
The one is the Sovietization of Armenia is one of the books that Dr. (?Ussher) has
written. It's a pamphlet and it's a very interesting pamphlet, by the way.
S:
What was the other one?
A:
The other one was about his wife. Of course, Dr. (?Ussher's) wife died in Van.
S:
It's not the ---- book, is it?
A:
Yes, the ---- book, about ----
S:
That's written by his mother-in-law
A:
Just a pamphlet
S:
Oh, it's a pamphlet, because there's a book by ----
A:
No this is just a pamphlet about her
S:
Oh, about her death.
A:
About her lose and what it meant to the community. Well, anyhow, this
association with the (?Ussher) in Portland opened up a whole new field and that's
how I found out Eleanor was in Washington. That's how you found out Eleanor
was there and go and have her interviewed. So that's a round about way getting it.
Incidentally they went to Armenia a couple of years ago, to Yerevan. Have I
given you enough?
S:
Oh, I mean we could go on and on. You left one very important thing out.
A:
What?
S:
Who you married and when.
A:
Oh!
END OF SIDE ONE