EXECUTIVE INTERVIEW
BOOKING AGENCY DIRECTOR
Y
DIRECTORY
Berliner Photography
Dennis Ashley
Where did your career go
from there?
International Creative Management
D
ennis Ashley hadn’t thought about a career in
the music industry until fate opened the door
in 1988. That’s when the Los Angeles native landed
a summer job at International
Creative Management and a new
world opened up.
“It was opportunity meets luck
and everything in between,” Dennis
told Pollstar. “My aunt worked for
Phil Casey and she told me, ‘It’s pilot season and they’re looking for
some folks to work in the mailroom
to do duplication and distribution
of scripts.’ It was supposed to be a
summer job and it ended up being
eight years.”
And that was just the beginning.
In his nearly 20 years as an
agent, Dennis has worked with
artists including M.C. Hammer,
DJ Quik and Tony Toni Tone up
to his current roster including
Beyoncé Knowles, Mary J. Blige,
Brian McKnight, Kelly Rowland,
Chris Brown, Ne-Yo and Bow Wow.
The mail room job at ICM led
Dennis to Casey, the man he credits with giving him the guidance
that sparked his career as an agent.
There he began to blend his love
of urban music with the business
side of things. He also learned how
film and television opportunities
can add another dimension to an
artist’s career, as well as the art of
deal making.
From there, Dennis opened his
own agency, Ashley Entertainment,
and spent two and a half years expanding his expertise as an agent.
During that time, he worked with
artists including K-Ci and JoJo and
Kirk Franklin & the Family, and
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got in on the ground floor of branding for tours and corporate endorsements.
His friendship with John Huie
led him to another opportunity at
Creative Artists Agency in 1999.
Dennis was hired to develop the
urban pop department, where he
continued his career until his return to ICM earlier this year.
Along the way, Dennis, in conjunction with the artists’ talent
agents and management, has
used the film and television outlets to an advantage. Beyoncé
landed a co-starring role as Foxxy
Cleopatra in Mike Myers’ “Austin
Powers” sequel and went on to
star in “Dreamgirls,” and Blige has
appeared on an episode of HBO’s
“Entourage.” Meanwhile, Brown
has appeared on Fox’s “The O.C.”,
UPN’s “One on One” and MTV’s
“My Super Sweet 16” as well as the
movie “Stomp The Yard” (along
with Ne-Yo) and the upcoming
“This Christmas” for Screen Gems.
And speaking of Chris Brown,
Dennis admitted he had some inside help when he was considering
the young singer from Tappahannock, Va., as a client.
“I‘d known his manager, Tina
Davis, from years ago when she
was an executive at Def Jam and
she sent me a CD with four or five
tracks on it,” he explained. “My
son, who was 8 or 9 years old at
the time, was with me when I was
playing it in the car and he said,
He gave me his time and his door
was always open. In terms of what
I do with urban pop music – back
then it was strictly urban – it’s
what I grew up with and it was my
passion. He took the time to explain the business part of it and
give me a foundation. It felt like a
good fit for me.
‘You know what, Dad? You should
sign this one.’ I agreed, so I called
Tina and the rest is history. With a
couple million records, a movie and
everything else, we’re off and running.”
It’s true: Catching Dennis in
one spot isn’t easy. He did part
of this interview from ICM and
another part from South Africa
where Blige had three concert
dates before heading out to Japan.
Meanwhile, Beyoncé’s tour was
hitting new markets in Russia,
Ethiopia, Romania, India, Thailand, Indonesia, China, the Philippines, South Korea and Taiwan.
How did you originally get interested in becoming an agent?
I used to spend my lunch hours
at ICM with Phil Casey learning
about the music industry because
I knew nothing about it. It’s not an
occupation you hear about in high
school or even in college. I also
would pester some movie agents
about reading scripts and I was all
over the building creating relationships so I could learn more
about the business. I started to understand the dealmaking aspects
and that’s one of the things I really
loved. I saw an opportunity and
seized it.
How did Phil become your
mentor?
I worked in the mailroom for
about a year and then became a
departmental assistant to Phil and
the urban music group, which
consisted of Mark Siegel and Mark
Cheatham. Mark Cheatham and I
were departmental assistants, but
he was on the East Coast and I was
on the West Coast. I think I stayed
in that role for about six months
answering phones and typing correspondence. I was also involved
in some dealmaking but not actually confirming deals. I would be
on the phone with Phil and some
promoters learning how to interact with buyers and managers. I
observed everything as closely as
possible.
What was the hardest thing
to learn about the job?
I think it was getting to know the
personalities of managers and artists, because everyone is different.
With some people, you take more
care to help them understand
while others are very skilled and
you can have a fast-paced relationship with them. Over time, I
realized you have to understand
what their threshold or their understanding of the business is. It’s
not a skill you develop in one or
two phone calls.
Who were some of the artists
you worked with in the early
days?
When I was first learning, I chased
down M.C. Hammer by going to
every show he had on the West
Coast. It was the same thing with
Tony Toni Tone and DJ Quik. As a
young agent, I was in the clubs ev-
EXECUTIVE INTERVIEW
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BOOKING AGENCY DIRECTOR
DIRECTORY
everything is lined up and fits
with the artist’s schedule, and
that the promoters or buyers
agree to the terms that you need.
The ultimate responsibility is to
the client, so you can’t leave them
hanging with unconfirmed dates
and no deposits.
Where did your experience
take you at that point?
I left ICM and started my own
company, Ashley Entertainment.
There I worked with K-Ci and
JoJo and Kirk Franklin. I also
put together a Honey Nut
Cheerios-themed tour with
Gladys Knight and Chaka Khan.
It was roughly 24 dates and ran
about six weeks.
How did you get in on that
tour opportunity?
DENNIS DOES HIS USUAL MULTITASKING at his office at ICM following his return from
South Africa.
ery night and I wouldn’t get
home until 2 or 3 o’clock in the
morning. Then I’d wake up at
8 o’clock, get on the phone and
do it all over again. That was my
life from the time I was 20 or 21
until I was 30. I learned that two
of the things an agent needs are
persistence and resourcefulness.
Those are the qualities that have
made me successful.
Sounds like you already felt
ready to take on the challenge.
Again, I have to credit Phil
Casey’s mentorship for that. He
helped me learn the right and
wrong things to do with an act
including the right venues to
book, the right kinds of buyers to
work with and the right economics. Those are things you have to
master in order to grow as an
agent. In the beginning stages it
was pretty simple. If an act came
to my region, I was responsible
for putting together their entire
West Coast run. I would do everything from Vancouver to San
Diego and over to Phoenix, so I
had to know all the buyers at the
clubs.
What was the first tour that
you set up on your own?
Now you’re asking me to really
dig deep here! I believe it was the
R&B group Troop that I booked
on my own around ’91 or ’92. I
think it was 10 to 15 dates but it
was a lot of phone calls and a lot
of work. At the time, the West
Coast region was pretty big because there were a lot of cities
you could play then that you can’t
play now. It was gratifying for me
to see how you could contribute
to an artist’s livelihood and career.
Was there any lesson learned
from that first tour?
Always get the deposit first because that’s when you know you
have a date! You want to believe
that every buyer is credible, but
sometimes it just doesn’t work
out. That’s probably the hardest
and most time-consuming part
of an agent’s job – making sure
I knew a gentleman at Honey
Nut Cheerios who wanted to do
a branded tour. The concept was
extremely new, so I thought it
was a great opportunity to start
moving into the corporate market. With Kentucky Fried Chicken, Pepsi and British Knight
tennis shoes, M.C. Hammer was
really the first person I worked
with who took on corporate
sponsorship. I was still setting
up a tour like I always do. Honey
Nut Cheerios didn’t have many
requirements, which made it very
simple.
So how did it feel to be your
own boss?
It was a great experience because
I had to do it all. I didn’t have a
computer so I had to type all my
contracts and I had to answer
the phones. I had booked some
overseas dates for Boyz II Men,
so I’d be up at 2 or 3 o’clock in
the morning on the phone with
Europe or Asia. It was a roundthe-clock job but it was very
gratifying. It was the next level
of me becoming an agent and
a defining moment where I
knew this is what I wanted to
do.
What prompted you to close
your business and move to
Creative Artists Agency?
I was introduced to Rob Light by
John Huie, whom I’d worked
with at ICM. About six months
later, Rob became the head of the
music department and I was one
of the first people he brought in
to work the urban pop part of the
business.
How did working at CAA
change things for you?
One thing that was helpful to me
was the information flow. When
you’re with your own company,
you have to come up with that
information yourself. It was helpful to have information on concert and movie grosses and other
tours in terms of ticket prices and
touring packages. That was good
to know even if it didn’t pertain
to the urban business.
What prompted your decision
to leave CAA earlier this year?
I met with ICM and their vision
matched my own. At the end of
the day, I’m in a business that
needs total support from an
agency in the movie department,
branding and endorsement and
TV. I have that with ICM. The music industry has expanded into
corporate marketing and artists
want to do movies and TV, so I
can relay that information to
managers and artists. If you can
get them into a film, then turn
around and have some sort of
corporate entity working with
them, hopefully, the platform is a
win-win situation and another
avenue to grow the artist brand.
On the topic of developing an
artist, do you think shows like
“American” Idol are a plus or
a minus when it comes to
achieving fame so quickly?
I think it’s a plus but even though
they’re thrust into the spotlight,
there still has to be career development. To me, it’s like building a
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EXECUTIVE INTERVIEW
BOOKING AGENCY DIRECTOR
Y
DIRECTORY
to throw together one-off shows.
Our second step was routing a
six-week, small club tour, and
the third part was to create a
festival-style show that showcased his prowess as an entertainer with real production.
In contrast, our strategy with
Destiny’s Child was such that
they supported four tours before
the headline tour. Then there are
artists that you have to develop
over time.
Are there any areas that
you’re looking closer at now
in terms of building an artist’s
career?
DENNIS FOLLOWS IN THE FOOTSTEPS of Phil Casey by sharing his expertise with ICM
agent Robert Gibbs.
pyramid where you need a foundation and a strong base to start
from. When a consumer walks
into a store and buys your album,
they’re buying ‘you’ as an artist.
They’re buying what you believe
in, what you’re singing about and
what you stand for, which is a big
statement in this day and time.
There’s a lot of different ways to
get music so for a consumer to
walk into a store, they really have
to believe in what that artist is
doing.
In that respect, do you think
the legal problems some hiphop or rap artists are involved
in has any effect on the draw
of other urban artists?
I think it pertains to that particular human being and that artist.
I’ve grown up African-American,
so I understand the culture and I
like to think I know what goes on
in the streets. I don’t think it’s fair
to make a blanket statement that
because of one rapper or hip-hop
artist, they all do it. We have to
understand that it’s no different
than Clint Eastwood playing a
tough guy. In terms of how an
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artist is portrayed in his persona
or image, that shouldn’t be taken
for more than what it is – entertainment. But one thing that does
apply, whether you’re an artist or
a plumber, is common sense.
Has the multitude of instant
fame opportunities made it
any harder for you to keep
track of emerging artists?
It’s challenging, but it’s still
rewarding when you find that
new artist and you can work
with them and build it. It’s no
different than what we’ve done
with Chris Brown regarding
his success in touring, film and
sponsorship opportunities. It’s
phenomenal to watch the growth
and that’s one of the gratifying
parts of my job.
It sounds like you approached
Chris’ development at his
young age the same way you
have with your other artists.
Every artist’s development is
unique. Our plan with Chris was
to create a headliner, so the first
step was to resist the temptation
Branding, film and TV are very
important. We started moving
Beyoncé and the other girls in
Destiny’s Child around Hollywood so if there was an opportunity for a film, they were up
for it. Then Beyoncé worked
with Mike Myers and became
part of the “Austin Powers” franchise, which was a pretty big
thing. So with Chris and Beyoncé
and Destiny’s Child, they had a
lot of success early on so we
moved fast on how we booked
shows and other opportunities.
There are artists that you have
to grow and it takes time, but it’s
the same thing – once it hits, it
explodes.
On another note, with the decline in record sales, I’m very interested to see how downloading
and other things play a part in
how we grow an artist. When we
first started, we were able to look
at the charts and see what an artist
was selling and how many singles
were on the radio. Now, it’s going
to be interesting for the future on
how new artists are built. With the
Internet age, I think we’re all still
trying to figure out where that
next superstar is coming from and
how they’ll be gauged. But I still
feel that agencies, record companies and managers have to be in
the business of developing the talent. It’s about artist development
and hit records – that formula
never changes.
How do you think the Internet’s influence will affect how
you do your job down the line?
From the standpoint of finding a
new artist, I think I’m going to
have to rely on it a lot more – resources like MySpace, FaceBook,
YouTube and iTunes. Even
Amazon.com has started a download service, so I’ll be monitoring
the download charts and acquiring as much information as I can.
The one thing about downloads
is it’s direct so the consumer is
saying ‘I love this record.’ But the
problem is they’re only buying
that single and not the album. It
doesn’t help record sales but,
hopefully, it creates more artist
development where record companies will start putting out more
singles before they put out the
album. Then the consumer might
have three or four singles from
that artist and they’re so familiar
with the vibe of it, they’re going
to buy the album. Quite honestly,
that’s not a bad thing.
Downloading hasn’t exactly
been accepted as a good thing
industry-wise, so why do you
think it’s a positive development?
I think the whole industry has
to go back to artist development
from a creative aspect, a retail
aspect and a touring aspect. We
have to start growing an artist
and get the consumer to have
confidence in what they’re buying because ultimately, that’s who
we have to cater to. I do feel that
the live experience, and the touring part of it, will not go away because the fans will still want to
interact and see their artists live.
What strategy do you use to
give your artists a bigger presence in the touring market?
It’s really just trying to identify
that fan. Our consumer is a person who has a lot of concerns so
we’ve got to get them to feel comfortable buying a concert ticket
no matter what the price is. It’s
EXECUTIVE INTERVIEW
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also trying to get the artist to
be personable, whether it’s doing
interviews or some sort of corporate campaign where they do instores. That’s where an artist can
touch the people and get that interaction, which is why consumers go to a concert – to get that
intimate experience and see a
good show.
I’ve noticed that Beyoncé’s
current routing has a wide variety of countries including
China. Is this new territory for
her?
Yes, it is. The demand has been
building for her to go as a solo
artist because she’s recognized
worldwide, so this was a chance
to break open these markets.
Did you have to jump through
any more hoops than usual to
route a tour through China?
No, there wasn’t anything in particular. With billions of people
there, that is the emerging economy and one I think we all want
to get into.
How do you stick to setting
ticket prices that fans would
be willing to pay when dealing
with such varied economies?
Without the consumer the artist
doesn’t have a touring career, so
I’m very sensitive to how much
we charge for tickets. I get input
from the promoters and look at
what the economy is doing in
that particular city or market.
I also try to keep the artist guarantee reasonable because that
affects the ticket price. If it’s a
market that’s fairly new and they
don’t get a lot of shows, then we
have to look at other economic
barometers to determine the
right ticket price. But talking to
buyers in those countries is still
the best barometer.
And does that go for your visit
to South Africa as well?
I am here to learn about the
South African market because
I haven’t done a lot of shows
here. The marketplace is really
growing and they’re adding new
venues. Mary is performing at
a venue in Cape Town that just
opened up, so it may be one of
the first shows there. I’ll be able
to get a feel for how much we can
charge and what’s needed to continue to bring talent into the
country.
Okay, I have to ask. How do
you keep your sanity when
you’ve got artists touring
around the world and hundreds of details to keep track
of?
Well, I have a huge binder of information and I work weekends
going through it and I have some
really great colleagues who help
me. In terms of logistics, it’s really about the folks around the
artists as well. Both Mary and
Beyoncé have great crews work-
FULL CAPACITY CONCERTS’ Stephane Lecuyer catches up with Dennis during CIC
2005 at The Century Plaza Hotel in Los Angeles.
ing for them so they make it
appear seamless. What we’re
moving around the world is
pretty massive and we’re getting it done. The promoters we
work with in these countries are
also truly professional, so that
makes it a lot easier.
What do you enjoy the most
about being an agent after all
these years?
First of all, it’s having a part in
an artist’s career, watching them
grow and then tour worldwide.
Second, it’s the satisfaction
the consumer gets. That’s the
moment when the lights go
down and I see the crowd’s anticipation of when that artist
will step on stage. The audience
doesn’t know what it took to
get that artist on stage and now
they get what they paid for. You
know you’ve done a good job
when the fans are happy and for
that moment, you’ve affected
their lives. That’s what I really
enjoy about what I do.
Tina Amendola
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