From your writings on the sociology of wealth and inequality, I
found it intriguing that economists and sociologists somewhat
agree on the historic factors that come into play in the
explanation of the division of wealth here in the United States. In
this chapter, one of the main points you discussed was the
slavery of and inequality towards African Americans, in specific,
by what I will assume to be predominantly white Americans.
Even though the segregation of US citizens still exists in our
culture today, it has obviously calmed down in the past forty
years. My question to you is how long do you think this will go
on? Segregation between African Americans and white Americans
has decreased, and I think it will continue to decrease even
further, but what sorts of methods can we use to estimate how
long and what kind of behavior will play out between the peoples
of different skin color in our society? I'd like to know your
opinions on this, and do you think a time period to completely
erase this segregation is even reasonable to think about at this
time?
In Melvin Oliver's, "Black Wealth/White Wealth: A New Perspective
on Racial Inequality", he focuses on how racial and social
inequalities are intertwined, especially in regard to the black
community. Not only are blacks not usually found in the highpaying corporate jobs, but they are denied employment
frequently in the service sector as well, as Oliver states, "In
service jobs non-blacks are preferred over blacks, particularly
black men, a preference that contributes to the low wages that
blacks earn, to high rates of joblessness, and thus to earnings
inequality." Seeing how social stereotypes and prejudices are to
blame for this inequality, what is Oliver's take on Affirmative
Action? Is this a policy that he thinks will solve this dilemma? Or
is it simply a crutch?
This week's selection: Black Wealth/White Wealth: A New
Perspective on Racial Inequality was written by Melvin Oliver and
Thomas Shapiro. Chapter 2 is titled: A Sociology of Wealth and
Racial Inequality (p. 35-54), the piece itself is about race. The
selection starts off with the authors presenting facts that showed
that African Americans are the most disadvantaged group in the
"underclass". Shapiro and Oliver then go on to say that this fact
should not be disputed, "what should be disputed is our
understanding of the source of such resounding levels of racial
inequality" (p.1). It also goes on to explain other terms such as
race, racism, and class. According to the piece racism is "a belief
in the inherent inferiority of one race in relation to another" (p.2).
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My first question is: what really defines racism? Is it that you
think a race is inferior to yours or that your race is better than
another or both? And if you have stereotypes about certain races
does that make you a racist? And also, as a Hispanic, I have heard
many times how minorities complain about how it's the "white's
people fault" and how "there's nothing we can do to better our
situation' and that "the system messes us up". Do you really think
this is true? And finally, why is it so hard to break class or race
barriers?
In A Sociology of Wealth and Racial Inequality, Oliver discusses
the racial inequality between blacks and whites, and claims that
human capital deficiencies are a major factor. Oliver goes into
detail about the racialization of the state and how its legislation
also affects the inequality of blacks and whites. It was stated that
when a neighborhood becomes over 20% black, whites flee from
the neighborhoods, and, as a result, the value of the
neighborhood declines. Is this historically accurate? Does this
always happen, or does it just happen once in a while?
After reading the article, "A Sociology of Wealth and Racial
Equality," I noticed that Melvin Oliver discusses how many of the
government programs and policies have increased much of the
racial and economic inequality and I would like to ask if he feels
if there are any policies right now that are having a strong impact
on inequality and does he believe it is possible to have true
equality, because I personally feel that as long as money exists,
there will never be equality and equal opportunity.
When reading the Omi and Winant article, Racial Formation in the
U.S?,? and about the Susue Guillory Phipps case, I started to think
about our society?s obsession with classification. It seems that
nearly every legal form you fill out, or even just a survey for a
class project, includes first and foremost an area to mark your
gender and race. My high school was very diverse and many
people such as Pacific Islanders or Middle Easterners would
complain that their race was not provided as a choice on college
applications and other forms. I understand that this information
is necessary for governmental censuses and other data but I feel
that too much significance is placed on the grouping of people.
When applying to college for instance, the box you check may
have huge implications in terms of your acceptance to various
schools.
In chapter two of Oliver and Shapiro?s ?Black Wealth/ White
Wealth: A New Perspective on Racial Inequality,? the authors raise
the theory that perhaps in modern times America is not so much
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racist as it is classist with the statistic that unfair wages are tied
more closely to economic class than to race. I feel that there is
much truth behind this because in general, I feel that the upper
echelon tends to stereotype and disrespect the poor as a group
rather than one race in particular. The race of the impoverished
is discriminated against in our culture and assumptions are
made about the character of these people (they must be lazy and
unintelligent, etc.).
In the reading from chapter eight, the authors discuss financial
inequality. Although these statistics have come up many times
recently, the fact that wealthiest 5% of Americans hold over 67%
of the country?s capital and that the poorest 40% of the country
controls only 1% of the financial wealth still shocks me.
Considering the common American ideal of equality, it is
interesting that the nation is very unequal in terms of finances. It
is so unfortunate that some families are forced to turn to
subprime lending in order to gain home ownership while these
groups see them as nothing more than an easy target for financial
gain.
Question for the guest lecturer(s): Do you think that racial
inequality is something that will gradually diminish naturally, or
do you think that it will remain inextricably tied to class
inequality, an element that will inevitably be present in a
capitalist society such as ours?
The readings for this week's guest can be summed in two
phrases: Black/ White inequality, and inequality in
homeownership. He argues mainly that our society is
inadvertently racist, and that our policies favor those already on
the top of the social spectrum at the expense of everyone else. A
great example of this is home ownership in America. The primary
way to build wealth is to buy a home, but minorities who need to
build wealth the most often have the most trouble getting
financing to buy a home.
Question: There is evidently a disparity in how regulations around
home financing and federal aid favor whites or blacks. What we
can do, in terms of national policy, to help more people get into
their first home, no matter their race?
So within Oliver’s first piece the most interesting thing, that I am
very glad he brought up, are the issues surrounding welfare. I am
so glad he brought up the fact that welfare was originally
intended for white, female widows of WWII to support their
families. The fact that this ideal recipient somehow shifted to
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create a dehumanization of the people who receive aid now is
almost unfathomable to me. I think that you definitely have to
look to racist thought as to why “welfare” changed from this
wonderful and glorified program to something that attacks the
disproportionate amount of women of color who use aid now. Not
to mention the fact that aid for children is not all that accessible
for women in lower income/inner cities, which is where most aid
goes and is majority women of color. This aid is not applicable
for several reasons the one I find most problematic is the child
cap and the stipulations of where the aid money can be used.
What I mean by this is: there is a maximum number of children
women can have (not sure of the number) before they lose their
aid money. However, this aid money can not be used for
contraceptives (I believe) which are constantly on the rise
monetarily and go against religious views that many women of
color participate in. They money also cannot be used, and this is
definite no exception, for any abortion. This money can be used
though for permanent sterilization. The fact that these women
can be permanently, and I would argue forcefully, sterilized but
the government will not pay for an abortion even in states where
it is legal, is criminal. They are forcing a choice on these people
to either choose family or money. This is only one of the many
ways, that women of color and low income women are targeted
with this thing called “aid”.
My questions is that when they
were doing an overview they tried to break down race and class
separately, yet ended up bringing race into the class discussion.
Do you feel that these two factors can be separated completely
and effectively? (Because I do not).
I did not understand how the FHA favored lending to whites over
blacks. Some clarification of this would be useful.
#1 Do you feel that the money in Obama's stimulus package is
going to the American's that need it the most? Furthermore, do
you feel that the money in Obama's stimulus package is going to
the American's that will use the money to ACTUALLY stimulate
the economy?
Q#2 How necessary has welfare been over the past decade
(mainly before the current economic crisis)? Has welfare been a
drain on the economy because it's reverse effect for many
Americans or has welfare been an overall success in stimulating
lower class households and communities?
in the article "A sociology of wealth and inequality" I would
personally love to elaborate on all the "plot holes" mentioned. I
am half German and half Asian so I feel, knowing my parent's
past, I have the right to distinguish inequalities brought by
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cultures themselves versus inequalities deemed by society by
personally seeing them from country to country. I always have a
problem with self victimizing citizens because I feel it is brought
down by their own cultures by themselves so it just makes me
enraged to ever hear talk about racial inequalities, what I want to
ask Oliver is the specific difference between the opportunities in
the ghetto versus those in wealthy neighborhoods of the same
race and how and why it will effect their future.
In this weeks readings, the story of Susie Guillory Phipps
introduced the subject of race and how it is constructed in the
United States as well as how important it is in everyday life. Susie
Guillory Phipps was a hypo-descendent, which refers to having
some percentage of non-white ancestry even if you may look like
a normal white person. She tried to change her racial
classification from black to white but could not because under
Louisiana state law you were considered black if you had at least
1/32nd Negro blood. So what is the big deal about being
classified as black or white on your birth certificate? Based on the
principles of racial formation, being considered black in America
basically assumes that you have a disadvantage in every single
aspect of life. We pride ourselves on being a free nation but we
still live in a system that discriminates anybody who is “nonwhite.” Over the years of the forming and maturation of America,
race has been interpreted in different ways and has had different
meanings to different people. If America was not founded by
Northern European settlers would we have a different view of race
today? Would the country be the world power that it is today?
Would it be possible that some other “non-white” race would be
the dominant race and being white would be just like being black
in modern America?
My question to Professor Melvin Oliver is how long have you
spent researching these negative effects on blacks and how did
you first become interested in studying the economic disabilities
blacks are faced with just for the sheer fact that they are racially
classified as black?
If this is so much the case, as I agree that racism is a hard issue
to prove, more or less find evidence for, then how do you suggest
that the issues of racial inequality in positions of power as well as
in policy be handled? How do you propose we bring justice and
equality to this white privilege system?
History plays a huge role in determining how we've gotten to
where we are. If our racist history as a country has placed blacks
in the position they are in today, in which they cannot pull
themselves up by their bootstraps as Horatio Alger would argue,
then we must change the system. African-Americans find
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themselves stuck in a never-ending cycle of poverty because of
their class struggle and racist hiring practices. Is there any way
to change this without involving the federal and state
governments on a large scale? Can free market capitalism solve
the racial problem?
I am very intrigued about your ideas on both perspectives on
class and race ideologies. Both class and race are indeed
counterproductive because racism focus on selective groups and
the inequalities they receive from another group, and, class focus
on the amount of opportunity and access that an individual was
born into. I see your views and I get the impression that you are
saying that the race-based ideals are individual perspectives and
class are institutional. I get these two perspectives and I agree
that you cannot use one over the other. Both, in a sense,
contradict each other. I totally agree with your ideals of both
racism and class being a social construction.
But as both are
stated as being a social construction does that means that the
views and the relationship between class and race perspectives
differ in other countries, nations, factories? If so do you feel that
the relationship between class and race are affected by the values
that different societies uphold?
in what way is the understanding of the source of racial
inequality disputed when the economic statuses of each race so
clearly defined?
The examples Oliver presents shows how the rich people of
America are only getting more rich, while the poor people are
slowly declining. There is a large gap between the families of the
United States. My question to you professor Oliver is, how can we
minimize this financial gap between the rich and the poor ?
Melvin Oliver and Thomas Shapiro analyze wealth, total assets
and debts rather than income alone to uncover deep and
relentless racial inequality in America, and they show how public
policies fail to equalize the problem. An examination of how
assets are created, expanded and preserved reveals a deep
economic divide between blacks and whites. By doing interviews
and comparisons between white families and black families the
racial face of wealth in America is measured and conceptualized.
“The rise of the black middle class is heralded as evidence of
greater racial equality”, but why do middle-class blacks possess
only fifteen cents for every dollar of wealth held by middle-class
whites? Why do 61% of black households have no financial assets
at all - twice the rate for white households? African Americans
have been oppressed for years by these situations. In the article it
is said that this occurs because of past history and it is pasted
from generation to generation. Do you believe that this train
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reaction, keeping minorities oppressed, will ever stop?
Racial integration and inequalities have for a long time been
ingrained in our culture. Because of the past, many african
americans are trapped in bad neighborhoods without good
education and help from the government. This leads to higher
crime rates and often more drugs/alcohol problems in the
community. Historically, blacks have had fewer or no rights,
made less money, and had worse job, which has left them at an
economic disadvantage with few hopes of rising up. Even now,
racial inequality is common and holds people down. People have
biases based on the past that they cannot get over. What are
some ways to bridge the gap between old ideas and values and
the modern world we live in, so that people will change their
predjudices. Is there some way that awareness could be raised
and this could be changed? Will having an black president help
this in any way?
Do you feel that racism is increasing or decreasing on a global
scale? Is the World becoming more or less racist? The examples of
racism in the US that you have presented in your story only
strengthen the appeal for a ban on racism. It is absurd for
someone to have 31 white ancestors and then 1 black ancestor,
however their governing body still labels them as “black”. What
are some initial steps that need to be taken so that these kinds of
instances do not define the country that we are striving to
become? How can one country such as brazil have many different
races and be fine with it, where as the US, a global power, feels
they have to label everyone so that they know their place in
society?
In this article, “A Sociology of Wealth and Racial Inequality,”
racism is addressed as an institutionally derived concept. Yet
while America as an institution has openly and dramatically
shifted from condoning to condemning this ideology, racism
survives in the minds of many individuals though often
subconsciously. To what degree does the presence of these
underlying preconceptions determine the inequality in such areas
discussed in this article? How much power does the unspoken
sentiment of individuals hold over the behavior of a collective
institution?
The trends of wealth in today?s society vary from the class
distinction of blacks and whites to issues pertaining to the
cumulative effects of history on the black community. Oliver
argues that blacks and whites are at different economic
hierarchies because blacks did not have the same opportunity
structure as the whites. ?It has been the different ?opportunity
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structure? for savings and investment that African Americans
have faced when compared with whites that has helped to
structure racial inequality in wealth holding.? [Oliver 207] Three
concepts were developed to ground his approach to understand
the racial wealth gap and highlight wealth inequalities. The first
of which is racialization of state policy and how the state
impaired blacks to accumulate wealth from the days of slavery
and at other points in history due to discrimination. The second
of which is the ?economic detour? which lowered the level of
successful entrepreneurship of black Americans. The third is
sedimentation of racial inequality and how the cumulative effects
of history cemented blacks to the bottom of the economic
hierarchy.
Although I do agree with many of Oliver?s claims and reasoning
for this issue, I must ask which racial policies are still hindering
black Americans today? What are some primary factors today
that reflect the low level of black entrepreneurship and what
would be a solution? I agree with the point on how the
sedimentation of racial inequality has placed blacks at the bottom
of the hierarchical list. What would be a solution that you might
have to reverse the effects of the sedimentation and give blacks
the ability to improve their stance in the economic hierarchy?
What do you believe would be a solution to the ?economic
detour?? Do you believe if more blacks were given the
opportunity to prevail in entrepreneurship the economic
hierarchy of blacks would increase?
From the Oliver and Shapiro reading the main reason for
inequality in America has been American policies. The richer are
getting richer and the poor are suffering, since the economy is
falling apart. The fact that black and whites are so separated in
wealth supposedly has everything to do with the past and what
opportunities they were given. As Alger would say people can
come up from nothing and create something out of themselves. I
have a hard time believing that american policy is still keeping
keeping in their social classes. So how in the long run are we
going to solve the ever lasting question of American wealth adn
inequality?
One of the biggest issues in the American history is slavery.
Oliver and Shapiro theorize that this past economic struggle
among African Americans has a high impact on their daily lives
today. Within their article, Oliver and Shapiro focused on state
policy and how it deliberately upholds the sediments of this
history in act. They argue:
“State policy has racialized the opportunities for the development
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of wealth, creating and sustaining the existing patterns of wealth
inequality and extending them into the future.” (pg 47)
I agree to an extent the irony behind some of the state policy
goals. Instead of reducing the economic scarcity and poverty, a
program like AFDC actually helps it. However, I would have to
disagree if the state policy has indeed managed to “racialize” its
own purposes. We have to stretch the racial spectrum when it
comes to determining people who receive aid from the
government. Just because the black race has a much higher
concentration of people receiving the aid doesn’t mean that they
are the ones being targeted by the state policy. Latinos, Asians,
and other immigrants of the United States under any bad
economic circumstance, are also trapped under the AFDC
program. As I’m sure they all must find their way out in order to
live more comfortably.
I speak on the behalf of my single mother who used to
receive aid from the AFDC program, and little by little did she
manage to become a business owner of a Nursing Home for the
Mentally Disabled. Coming to America with little to no budget
was a big disadvantage on her part, yet it didn’t stop her from
fulfilling her dreams and aspirations. With that, shouldn’t there
be a better reason why the African American race is in an
economic struggle besides the nuisance of state policy?
What seems clear after reading the chapters is that there is a
belief that state policy has caused African Americans to live the
way they do and to be disadvantaged since the time of slavery.
With a newly elected government, and with the head of that
government being black, what, if any policies do you feel Obama
will promote or change in order to equalize wealth? Do you feel
that merely having a black president will change the morale of the
black community in feeling more equal with races that they may
feel are ?higher? than them? In essence, how do you feel the new
government will change the situation of blacks in America?
In chapter 2 of your book, you introduce the idea of racism and
its relationship to wealth, class, and opportunistic inequalities.
However, the root of racism is not clear, would u say that racism
was created by the individual and expressed through institutions
or created by institutions and expressed through the individual?
And, although Blacks and Whites are not the only two racial
groups in America, you only seem to focus on these two. Is this
because they are the two most significantly distanced groups with
regards to wealth inequality? Does this mean that most other
racial groups such as Hispanics and Asians fall somewhere in
between Whites and Blacks? Or is it because these two groups
were the outline of high and low groups in the earlier years of
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modern America, with respects to slavery? I also noticed that
most of the despairities that you pointed out occured at the
height of racism in America. Now that these levels of racism have
decreased, do you still think there is such a gap between the
wealth of Whites and Blacks? If so, how do you explain the
success rates of current day African American entrepreneurs,
politicians, and entertainers?
ThThis week's readings focused on the inequality in social status
which consequently explains the cleavage between the wealth
among white Americans and black Americans. Factors such as
slavery and racism, as well as having little human capital and
historically discriminating economic practices led the inequalities
seen today. All this taken into consideration plus other factors
that the readings discussed (don't want to summarize too much)
it seems like the African American people as a whole cannot get
out of their present opportunity pools because of the long history
of these social and economic factors. How can an African
American child expect to do well in such a competitive world if
their school is inferior, they only have their mother to financially
and mentally support their upbringing, and their living conditions
are riddled with drug dealers, decrepit housing, and gangsterthugs? Despite slavery ending 200 years ago and the
implementation of the
a anti discriminatory laws and acts like the Civil Rights Act of
1964, progress has not jumped leaps and bounds as it perhaps
was expected to. Why is this? Perhaps, as the readings imply, that
the culture as a whole is to blame. Discounting blatant racism, is
the everyday white man really racist? Is it a subconscious thing
and if so, then how can this be changed? Are white Americans
conditioned to be discriminatory? If this is the reason then how
long will it take for results to be visible? And if this subconscious
notion is not the cause of this discrimination, than what is?
In their book Black Wealth/White Wealth: A New Perspective on
Racial Inequality, Melvin Oliver and Thomas Shapiro discuss the
issues of wealth and inequality in relation to race. These readings
are concerning because they make me wonder how our country
could have allowed itself to come to a point where it has such
drastic inequalities. In the first section of reading, Oliver and
Shapiro say that, when attempting to understand racial inequality,
it is important that both race and class be taken into
consideration, rather than just one or the other. They explain that
a major reason for which black and whites are not accumulating
the same amount of wealth is because they are not given the
same investment opportunities. They go on to discuss policies
that were created by the state that have created some inequality
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in opportunities between blacks and whites (such as slavery and
the FHA), as well as the reasons for which black self-employment
has been unsuccessful.
In the second part of the reading, Oliver and Shapiro
discuss the inequality in differences in pay. They say that ?the
wealthy were the biggest beneficiaries of tax policies during
President Bush?s first term.? I guess what I am confused about is
the logic behind Bush?s decision to give tax breaks to the very
wealthy. What good does it do when those who are struggling to
put food on the table and have a roof over their head have to pay
taxes, while those with the most money in the country are getting
tax cuts? Do you think that if the tax breaks were given to the
poor instead, the inequality between blacks and whites in terms
of wealth would decrease?
Dean Oliver, in your book Black Wealth/White Wealth: A New
Perspective on Racial Inequality you talk about how many
government institutions such as the AFDC and IRS implement
policies effectively preserving the poverty of blacks. I can
understand that since the end of slavery it has been hard for
blacks to fight against such seemingly subtle institutionalized
racism, but after the great strides made during the Civil Rights
Movement I do not see how these policies have not been
amended. Caught in a Catch-22 where wealth is a prerequisite to
make more wealth, and those without money cannot make any,
blacks in poverty are now not segregated racially outright, but
instead subtly segregated economically. Though race and class
have become intertwined for low-income blacks, which would you
say has more bearing on their socioeconomic status and why?
Also, why haven't more measures been taken to reveal these
oppressive social and economic measures that keep blacks
segregated economically and prevent them from gaining wealth?
I thought your comment on the New Deal legislation excluding
African Americans and Latinos was interesting since Americans
tend to look back at the New Deal as the first time the
administration took a proactive stance in pulling people out of
impoverished conditions. According to your article, it was exactly
the opposite. What kind of parallels would you draw with recent
administrations (Bush or Clinton) in which programs that have
been implemented to decrease inequality have actually
contributed to it strongly but indirectly? Also, would you
characterize current racial and class inequality as mostly a result
of individual factors in certain places or universal factors that
apply throughout the country?
Dean Oliver, you argue that after the New Deal was implemented,
African Americans suffered because of the state policies it
11
enforced, namely the Social Security Act. You say that blacks were
given a disadvantage because low income workers were neglected
and because blacks tended to be taxed on a much higher percent
of their incomes than whites were- meaning they received lower
benefits while paying more into the program. Do you believe that
today blacks are still affected more severely by Social Security
and other federal taxes than whites, especially as the US slips
further into an economic recession?
This new outlook on racial inequality presents an interesting and
reasonable argument but I am left with questions. Does the fact
that African Americans have been oppressed by legislature still
apply today, now that this legislature has been corrected of its
racially segregated aspects? Or am I wrong in thinking that these
aspects have been corrected at all? Does the fact that this class
has always been at a disadvantage in terms of assets mean that
they will forever be stuck in this rut because they will not be able
to overcome the huge head start the higher class has had
throughout history?
Blacks as a population in have been looked upon throughout
history as the "underdog," or in other words, most impoverished
population. In relations to whites in history this has been true
and it was the black population that was the first to be enslaved
in America and therefore the individuals in this society were
thought of as less. Yet, now in America there are other
populations whose rising poverty, in my opinion is rivaling the
black communities poverty levels, and in some instances are
much more impoverished than the black community. Yet, there is
still a predetermined mind set of America in which the blacks are
thought of as a "lower class." Even though we now have a black
president and there are more and more blacks in America
surpassing, and rising to the same economic level as the "upper
class" Americans, why is it that the blacks are still thought of as
the "lower" class in America?
In Melvin Oliver’s essay “A Sociology of Wealth and Racial
Inequality”, he addresses the burden that has been put on black
Americans and the inequalities they experience in culture today.
He talks of how blacks get stuck in a sort of slump from cradle to
grave that they cannot slip out of. It is something that is passed
on from generation to generation that keeps black Americans
down and in the lower class of society. He says that blacks have
had a barrier up against them from the beginning of American
society that they cannot seem to get past.
I wonder how or if he thinks this will ever change. How can they
get out of this seemingly downward spiral? Why does he just
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focus on black poverty and inequality in jobs? Does he not see
the same experiences happen in people such as Persians or
Indians who come here and get stuck into the jobs of taxi drivers
and such where it is difficult for them to ever be able to break out
of?
In terms of C.W. Mills’s sociological imagination, does he think
that this is an institution that black Americans must understand
to move forward in society? Can this institution be changed in
the future? What does he think the future holds for blacks and
their issues of poverty and wealth?
In your work "A Sociology of Wealth and Racial Inequality", you
state that "the past has a living effect on the present" (52). With
the trends of other events, as we move farther and farther away
from the times of slavery, shouldn't we and aren't we moving
closer to equality? With the addition of a black president, which
by no means signals all problems are gone, we have shown that
we are taking steps in the right direction. However, your studies
in "Wealth Inequality Trends" that the wealth inequality gap has
actually widened in the coming of the 21st century between white
and black Americans. What, then, do you propose needs to
change in order for this gap to decrease? It seems as though
decreasing inequality is not having a high correlation with
economic equality. What do we, as Americans, need to do in order
to get rid of this large gap?
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