HEAT TREATING
OCTOBER 2012
CONFIRMED MINUTES
OCTOBER 22-25, 2012
OMNI WILLIAM PENN HOTEL
PITTSBURGH, PA, USA
These minutes are not final until confirmed by the Task Group in writing or by vote at a
subsequent meeting.
Information herein does not constitute a communication or
recommendation from the Task Group and shall not be considered as such by any agency.
22-OCT-12 to 25-OCT-12
1.0 OPENING COMMENTS – Introduced Stan Revers, new Staff Engineer in the Heat Treat and
Welding Task Group.
1.1 Call to Order / Quorum Check
The Heat Treating Task Group (HT) was called to order at 8:00a.m., 22-Oct-12
It was verified that only SUBSCRIBER MEMBERS were in attendance during the closed portion
of the meeting.
A quorum was established with the following representatives in attendance:
Subscriber Members/Participants Present (* Indicates Voting Member)
NAME
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
Shamim
Silvia
Craig
Bruce
Frank
Giuseppe
Craig
Cedric
Michael
David
Mike
Martin
Kevin
Mark
Sergio
Ronnie
Bob
Laurent
Larry
Peter
Mohammed
Gerald
Andrew
Tommy
Dave
Aaron
Stephen
Serge
Marc-Andre
Hongping
Will
COMPANY NAME
Abbas
Baeza
Bennington
Brownfield
Brungs
Campanile
Clasper
Colas
Corsino
Damasauskas
Dame
Day
Elston
Emerson
Esposito
Farris
Faticanti
Geerts
Hamanishi
Hammarbo
Haq
Harvey
Hopkins
Howland
Isenberg
Jacobson
Johnson
Labbe
Lefebvre
Li
Macias
The Boeing Company
Triumph Group
Cessna Aircraft Company
Lockheed Martin
MTU Aero Engines GmbH
Alenia Aermacchi S.p.A.
General Dynamics Ordnance & Tactical Sys.
SAFRAN Group (Snecma)
Hamilton Sundstrand
Spirit AeroSystems
Parker Hannifin
Honeywell Aerospace
Spirit AeroSystems, Inc. Tulsa, OK
Rolls-Royce Corp
Alenia Aermacchi S.p.A.
Spirit AeroSystems
Bell Helicopter Textron
Sonaca
The Boeing Company
GKN Aerospace Sweden AB
Bell Helicopter Textron
Triumph Group
BAE Systems MAI
Spirit AeroSystems
Parker Hannifin
United Technologies Aerospace Systems
Triumph Gear Systems
Heroux Devtek, Inc.
Heroux Devtek, Inc.
Commercial Aircraft Company of China
Goodrich (UTAS)
1
Secretary
HEAT TREATING
OCTOBER 2012
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
Doug
John
Mark
Tom
Luis-Gustano
Eddy
Sunder
Alex
David
Mariusz
Marc
Jeffrey
Stanley
Cyril
Deborah
Gary
Grzegorz
Matson
Merritt
Nigels
Norris
Pacheco
Pham
Rajan
Richez
Soong
Sanczyk
Taillandier
Thyssen
Trull
Vernault
Vogel
Wallace
Wryk
The Boeing Company
United Technologies Corporation
Parker Aerospace
Goodrich (UTAS)=
Embraer S.A.
Northrop Grumman Integrated Systems
Raytheon Corporation
Airbus
Pratt & Whitney
Lockheed Martin
Eurocopter
GE Aviation
Honeywell Aerospace
SAFRAN Group
Triumph Group
Parker Aerospace
Rolls-Royce
Other Members/Participants Present (* Indicates Voting Member)
NAME
*
*
Roy
Zubair
Gilbert
Eric
Daniel
Stan
Amy
Carolyn
Trevor
Andrew
Thomas
Griff
Micky
Mike
Mike
Mark
Christopher
Dennis
Donald
Erin
Arturo
Alan
Stephen
Tina
Bob
Joshua
Nathalie
Michelle
William
Deborah
Michael
Gary
Ed
Robert
Dennis
Jose
Michael
COMPANY NAME
Adkins
Alam
Alba
Anthos
Antos
Arnold
Azzano
Backus
Bartkiewicz
Bassett
Bauer
Braddock
Bradican
Brandt
Brausch
Brown
Bryant
Burkes
Camus
Carroll
Chavez
Chlpka
Choma
Corbin
Cretichan
Crockett
Crozat-Vigier
Davis-Lawson
Dixon
Dougherty
Eddy
Eisenman
Engelhard
Ferry
Fried
Fuentes
Gaspers
Specialty Steel Treating
Exactatherm
Lisi-Aerospace Co.
GeoCorp, Inc.
Canton Drop Forge
Advanced Heat Treat Corp.
Arrow Gear
SPS Technologies
Bristol Aerospace Ltd.
Aerospace Testing & Pyrometry, Inc.
Paulo Products
Braddock Metallurgical
Applied Thermal Technologies
Alcoa Inc.
CCPI, Inc.
Kaman
Carpenter Technology
Winston Heat Treating Inc.
Talley Metals Technology, Inc.
Wyman-Gordon
Tighitco Latinoamerica Chihuahua
Solar Atmospheres of Western Pennsylvania
Vac-Met
Haynes International
Paulo Products Co.
Ferrotherm
SKF Aerospace France
Byron Products
Astro Aluminum
General Metal Heat Treat
Wyman-Gordon
Aero Gear Inc.
Solar Atmospheres Inc
FPM Heat Treating
Carpenter Technology
VAC AERO International
FPM Heat Treating
2
Chairperson
Vice Chairperson
*
*
*
*
*
*
Steve
Susan
George
Tom
Tony
Darron
Siri
Randy
Brian
Raymond
Chris
Steve
Ninan
Jennifer
Kurt
Adeel
Zia
Amanda
Alexander
John
John
James
Bob
Li
Louis
Johanna
David
Connie
Jim
Adrian
Steve
Angelo
Laura
Subramanya
Ken
Greg
Jesse
James
John
Dave
Timothy
Ronald
Paul
Daniel
Brian
Elena
James
Glen
Thomas
Vicki
Bob
Jeff
Carol
Kevin
Stuart
Jeffrey
Suzanne E.
Ron
Allison
Germperline
Generalovich
Gieger
Glosser
Gonzalez
Harris
Hessen
Hite
Hoffa
Hozempa
Hunker
Hutchinson
Idiculla
James
Jungheim
Karim
Karim
Kirchner
Klyuch
Kocka
Kunkle
LaFollette
Lehnen
Li
Liguore
Lisa
Loria
Mackey
Maloney
Martell
McGinnis
Monzo
Moyer
Naglapura
Nelson
Newton
Norris
Oakes
Ochenas
Osenar
Paradis
Pilbosian
Ramirez
Reeves
Reynolds
Ritoli
Robellard
Rudd
Ruecker
Salzarulo
Sartori
Schecl
Schmidt
Seidel
Sherman
Sipf
Smatko
Stewart
Tackett
HEAT TREATING
OCTOBER 2012
Wall Colmonoy Aerobraze Engineered Technologies
Solar Atmospheres of Western Pennsylvania
Braddock Metallurgical
Astro Aluminum
Specialty Steel Treating
Exotic Metals Forming Company
Volvo Aero Norway
PCC Structurals
Carpenter Technology
Yankee Casting Co., Inc.
Carpenter Technology Corporation- Latrobe
Braddock Metallurgical
Paulo Products
Precision Tube Co. Division Mueller Industries
Modern Drop Forge Co.
Doctor Furnace
Heat Treat Professionals
Beyond Relations
Blades Technology Ltd.
ARROW GEAR
Howmet Casting Dover Casting
GeoCorp, Inc.
Bodycote Thermal Processing
Advanced Nitriding Solution
RTI International Metals Inc.
Continental Heat Treating / Quality Heat Treating
Ferrotherm Corporation
Advanced Heat Treat Corp.
The Timken Co.
Parker Hannifin
PCC Airfoils LLC
Barnes Aerospace Lansing Division
Alcoa Howment Dover Casting
S.S. White Technologies, Inc.
Continental Heat Treating
Newton Heat Treat
Stack Metallurgical Services Inc.
Super Systems
GeoCorp, Inc.
Pako Inc.
Metallurgical Processing Inc.
Engineered Heat Treat Inc.
Haynes International Inc
CPP-Corp.
Alcoa
Metallurgical Processing
Plymouth Tube Company
Braddock Metallurgical
Invensys Eurotherm
Kaman Aerospace Corp.
Accurate Brazing
Advanced Nitriding Solution
ATI-Ladish Forging
Carpenter Technology Corp.
Metallurgical Processing
Hanes International, Inc.
Wyman Gordon Pennsylvania
Ellison Surface Technologies
Specialty Steel Treating
3
HEAT TREATING
OCTOBER 2012
Gregg
Natia
Tom
Kevin
Paul
Donald
Keith
Ron
Brian
Danise
Thomas
Temple
Turmanidze
Valenti
Vecchiarelli
Vegiard
Watkins
Whiddon
Yarnall
Yazumbek
Zazzera
Zimmerman
Winston Heat Treating Inc.
Lisi Aerospace
Specialty Steel Treating, Inc.
Yankee Casting Co., Inc.
CCPI
Precision Components International
Canton Drop Forge
Aerobraze ENG. TECH. Division of Wall Colmonoy
Modern Drop Forge Co.
Wyman Gordon
Aerospace Testing & Pyrometry, Inc.
PRI Staff Present
Thomas
Michael
Robert
Amy
John
Zimmerman
Brandt
Cvetichan
Azzano
Kocka
Tom
Glosser
Carol
Schmidt
Joseph
Jenks
Bob
Lehnen
Griff
Braddock
Roy
Franklin
George
Gieger
Christopher
Bryant
Dennis
Fried
Tom
Murphy
Jimmy
Morris
Dave
Smith
Steve
Sykes
Michael
Niedzinski
Ken
Nelson
Johanna
Lisa
Jay
Ford
Nick
Fajerson
Carrell
Owen
Bob
Ray
Nelslihan
Walker
Chris
Reed
Ron
Stewart
Darron
Harris
Jonathan
Gonzalez
Eric
Anthos
James
LaFollette
Ron
Kramer
Paul
Ramirez
4
HEAT TREATING
OCTOBER 2012
1.3
Jeffrey
Sipf
Guy
Saenz
John
Kunkle
Lisa
Goodwin
Oveis
Nayeri
Dave
Shonts
David
Shonts
Chris
Kerr
Mike
Sanders
Tom
Morrison
Adil
Slimani
Hirohiko
Hattori
Ginny
Brock
Chad
Funderburk
Jeremy
Leetz
Kurt
Jungheim
Brian
Yazumbek
Brian
Costello
Greg
Newton
Peter
Newton
Paul
Pfeifer
Thomas
Bauer
Ninan
Idiculla
Tim
Mohr
David
Mailes
Richard
Lewis
Wilfried
Weber
Patrick
Mahony
Mike
Smith
Doug
Smith
Jared
Bednar
William
Duarte
Ed
Engelhard
Roy
Adkins
Ryan
Kollmorgen
Tom
Valenti
Jesse
Norris
Donald
Camus
Buster
Crossley
APPROVAL OF PREVIOUS MEETING MINUTES / RAIL REVIEW – OPEN
Motion made by Jeff Thyssen and seconded by Gerald Harvey to accept June 2012 meeting
minutes. Motion passed. The minutes from June 2012 were approved as written.
5
HEAT TREATING
OCTOBER 2012
2.0
HEAT TREATING AGENDA REVIEW –CLOSED
The Task Group reviewed the agenda for the week to highlight agenda items.
3.0
HEAT TREATING TASK GROUP TUTORIAL - CLOSED
The meeting began with video from PRI about the Nadcap Code of Ethics, Code of Conduct,
Conflict of Interest Anti-Trust Policy and ITAR/Export control.
The Vice Chair reminded the Task Group of the following:
Participation in Sub-Teams is an important part of Voting Member responsibilities.
A microphone is available for anyone who would like to use it. Speak clearly, do not dismiss
people’s opinions, emotional and off topics should be avoided.
One point brought to the attention of the Task Group was that any comment made in the ballot
needs to be addressed by the Staff Engineer before closing the ballots. The Task Group was
asked only to include comments when action is required before the audit can be closed.
4.0
STAFF ENGINEERS DELEGATION – CLOSED
Motion made by Bob Faticanti and seconded by Tom Norris to continue to delegate Jerry
Aston. Motion passed.
Motion made by Sunder Rajan and seconded by Cyril Vernault to continue to delegate Rob
Hoeth. Motion Passed.
Motion made by Doug Matson and seconded by Mark Emerson to continue to delegate
Marcel Cuperman. Motion passed.
Motion made by Jeff Thyssen and seconded by Mark Emerson to continue to delegate Anne
Allen. Motion passed.
Task Group discussed the need to clarify the procedure for audit review and comments for
Non-delegated Staff Engineer.
5.0
LAPSED ACCREDITATION – CLOSED
Motion made by Doug Matson and seconded by Jeff Thyssen “to Approve Extensions
proposed by Staff Engineers listed in Spreadsheet “Audits with potential to lapse 31-Oct-12.
Audit information as of 15-Oct-12”. Motion passed.
Add to new business to discuss lapsed accreditation notification.
6.0
TASK GROUP CHAIR – CLOSED
Nominations are: Tom Norris of Goodrich (UTAS) and Mark Emerson of Rolls Royce. Each
candidate was given the opportunity to address the Task Group. The candidates were
dismissed and the Task Group was given the opportunity to discuss the candidate merits.
Tom Norris was accepted by Task Group Subscriber Voting Members to be Task Group
Chair, effective immediately.
The Voting Member status was verified for each vote submitted.
7.0
AUDITOR CONSISTENCY: +/-5NCRS – CLOSED
Staff Engineers provided data on audits where there had been +/- 5 NCR swing between
audits. This information is provided to allow Auditors to be highlighted, allowing the Task
6
HEAT TREATING
OCTOBER 2012
Group to follow up with these Auditors. The spreadsheet with the number of audits with a
change of greater than +/- 5 NCR’s become smaller. Continue to monitor +/- NCRs.
ACTION ITEM: Staff Engineer to send next three months calendar for Auditor recommended for Audit
observations (DUE DATE: 2-Nov-12)
Auditor Variation Data (between auditors): Presentation given by Doug Matson. The
presentation included the average number of NCRs for each auditor and the min/max and
total number of audits for the year.
NCR Analysis Presented by Bob Faticanti: AC7102 Section 3 through 10 was covered by
the analysis.
In Section 10, every question was written up at least once.
In Section 9: 27 questions from section 9 have never been written up on NCR.
In Section 3: several questions were not getting many NCRs written and six questions never
had an NCR written against it.
It was recommended to use the data to provide targeted training for auditors. Perhaps start a
pilot program where TG members monitor an individual auditor and review what they are
writing as NCRs and what they are not writing up as NCR’s and use that for more targeting.
Also, recommended to review the adequacy of the least written questions for continued use.
Suggest a sub team to evaluate these questions that are not being cited and determine if they
are important and use the data to perhaps create individual training parts.
Sub –Team created for item 47 will cover these recommendations.
NMC Standard Data Set for Annual Task Group Review:
Presented by Staff Engineer. This is to be reviewed annually per NMC Standardization
Committee.
ACTION ITEM: Staff Engineer to send the list of +/- 5 NCR audits to the Task Group (Due Date: 2Nov-12)
8.0
AUDITS OBSERVERS – CLOSED
A summary was given of the number of NCR’s written when audits are observed compared to
when audits are not observed. The reviewed included the data summary for all audits
between January 2007 and July 2012. Reasonable conclusions cannot be formed based on
only comparing auditor performance.
When a Subscriber carries out an oversight audit of a Supplier, Nadcap is requesting that they
complete the oversight form, and return it to John Barrett at PRI. This allows the forms to be
reviewed and discussed at the Task Group meetings.
Since the June 2012 meeting, there were 9 observation audits performed. The oversight audit
forms that have been returned and their summaries were reviewed by the Task Group. In
general, the feedback on the Auditors was positive, but it does show areas that can be
improved. These improvements will be addressed with those Auditors by the Staff Engineers.
Audit observation reports will be reviewed each subsequent meeting.
9.0
APPEAL ANALYSIS & POSSIBLE APPEALS - CLOSED
No appeals were presented at the meeting.
Data for Appeals May 2010 to October 2012
10.0
FAILURE ANALYSIS & VCA DATA – CLOSED
7
HEAT TREATING
OCTOBER 2012
The Staff Engineers presented to the Task Group the number of Verification of Corrective
Action (VCA) audits being carried out per quarter.
The number of VCA Verification audits for the previous quarter was 15 of which 1 audit failed.
This was an increase from the previous quarter when there were 4 VCA audits that were
conducted with 2 audits failing.
Staff Engineers presented to the Task Group the percentage of audits failed for June 2012 to
October 2012. The failure rate is 6.0% (3 Initial audits and 9 Reaccreditation audits). This is a
higher failure rate than other Nadcap commodities.
The Staff Engineers presented to the Task Group a chart showing the number of VCA audits
per quarter for 2010 and 2011, and out of the Suppliers requiring a VCA audit, the number
who were on merit. Analysis of the results showed that for 2011 approximately 30% of the
audits requiring a VCA audit were currently on merit.
11.0
SUBSCRIBERS VOTING MEMBERS PARTICIPATION – CLOSED
The Staff Engineers presented to the Task Group a chart showing Subscriber Voting Member
meeting attendance from October 2010 and Task Group ballots covering the last three
Nadcap meetings. There was one Subscriber Voting Member not meeting NTGOP-001
requirements.
The Chair agreed to contact the one Subscriber that has missed more than 3 consecutive
meetings and has failed to meet the ballot criteria. The Subscriber will remain a Subscriber
Voting Member.
ACTION ITEM: Tom Norris to contact Subscriber regarding meeting attendance. (DUE DATE: 25-Nov12)
12.0
NCRs FROM ADD-SCOPE AUDITS - CLOSED
Motion made by Gerald Harvey and seconded by Jeff Thyssen to amend. Motion passed.
This will be presented to Standardization Committee.
•
If all NCRs are raised solely against AC questions confined to the Added Scope, then the
criteria of NOP-011 for daily NCRs for Initial Audits shall apply. If the failure threshold is
reached, then the audit is balloted to the Task Group for failure of the Added Scope only, in
accordance with NOP-011 for initial audits.
•
If any NCRs are raised against AC questions that apply exclusively to the Main Audit, then the
total of NCRs and total number days for the Added Scope and the Main Audit shall be
combined and the criteria of NOP-011 for Reaccreditation Audits shall apply. If that failure
threshold is reached, then the Add Scope and Main Audit is balloted to the Task Group for
failure in accordance with NOP-011 for Reaccreditation Audits.
13.0
AUDITOR TRAINING FEEDBACK - CLOSED
Nadcap training for new auditors was discussed with Auditors at the Auditor Conference.
This training included: Time and Group Management Training, Quality Systems Management,
NCR writing, and Professionalism in Auditing skills.
There was a discussion on Audit Checklists. Feedback from the Auditors on the last question
of the Job Audit in checklist AC7102. How should this be filled out? Task Group will review
with consideration to revise the questions. Task Group was also asked to discuss whether the
auditors should write NCR’s if they don’t know who the Subscriber customers are. Also if
8
HEAT TREATING
OCTOBER 2012
Auditors see something that could result in scrapped hardware should they inform the
Supplier to stop during the audit?
14.0
OPEN DISCUSSION – CLOSED
RE-EVALUATION OF NEW CONTRACTED AUDITORS AFTER 6 MONTH PERIOD
How would the re-evaluation be performed? Perhaps target the Auditors for observation
audits.
Discussion: Do the supplier need to list before the audit who are the Subscribers?
Suppliers are not always identifying the Subscriber customers that affect the audit scope. Tom
Norris made a motion to add a check box to section 1 so an NCR can be issued for noncompliance. Motion was not seconded. Move discussion to open meeting with Suppliers
present.
15.0
OPEN DISCUSSION - CLOSED
CONCERNING HT CYCLE APPROVAL (ELECTRONIC APPROVAL) - CLOSED
Item moved to open meeting.
16.0
HT-STSTG - OPEN
Only suppliers and SE’s allowed to Participate
Subscribers are welcome
Supplier Support Committee (SSC) HT Representative –Decision to be made.
17.0
OPENING COMMENTS – OPEN
Opening comments from Cyril Vernault (Vice Chair): Introductions of the Task Group meeting
attendees.
The open meeting began with video from PRI about the Nadcap Code of Ethics, Code of
Conduct, Conflict of Interest Anti-Trust Policy and ITAR/Export control.
New attendees were encouraged to fill out form m-frm-01 to have access to eAuditNet.
18.0
RAIL REVIEW –OPEN
Review of open action items from the Rolling Action Item List (RAIL):
AI 282: Sub Team for checklist vision will present the three checklists discussed in the closed
meeting.
Investigate NCR outcome when auditors are observed.
AI 311: Sub Team to review the HT Audit Handbook. Still in process, presentation later in the
day.
AI 318: Train lead auditors for observing audits.
AI 319: Sub team for Add Scope audit policy.
Collect data Top 10 NCR.
AI 320: Temper verification by other than Heat Treater.
19.0
APPROVAL OF JUNE MINUTES – OPEN
June 2012 Minutes were presented to the Task Group meeting. The minutes were posted to
eAuditNet following the June 2012 meeting.
Motion made by Jeff Thyssen and seconded Gerald Harvey to approve June 2012 Minutes as
written. Motion passed.
20.0
SUPPLIERS VOTING MEMBERS PARTICIPATION –OPEN
9
HEAT TREATING
OCTOBER 2012
Supplier balloting activity and meeting attendance data was presented to the Task Group. The
data showed that the requirements of NTGOP-001 were being met by all the Supplier Voting
Members (SVM).
The Staff Engineer also presented the data for HT-STSTG participation. Participation is high
for Heat Treat Suppliers. The level of participation is appreciated by the Task Group.
21.0
CLOSED MEETING REPORT OUT – TG CHAIR CONFIRMATION –OPEN
Cyril Vernault gave debrief on the discussions held during the closed meeting.
Cyril introduced Tom Norris as the Task Group Chair.
Tom Norris took over the debrief of the closed meeting.
22.0
SUB-TEAM MEETINGS – OPEN
Add Scope NOP-011 Sub Team- (see item 12)
Motion made by Bruce Brownfield and seconded by Jeff Thyssen to adopt wording of add
scope criteria and send to Standardization. Motion passed.
Additional information requested. If Add Scope audit is approved is the accreditation
automatically for the remainder of the accreditation period of the “Main Audit” even if the
supplier has Merit? Bruce Brownfield agreed to research procedures for Add Scope, and
report back to the Task Group the procedural requirements for Add Scope audits.
ACTION ITEM: Bruce Brownfield to research procedures for Add Scope audits and to report back to
the Task Group of the procedural requirements. (DUE DATE: 15-Feb-13)
23.0
AC7102/2 REV C COMMENTS ADDRESSED – OPEN
There were five Comments made by the Task Group and all relate to paragraph 13. The
comments related to the title of the section: Temper Inspection. It is proposed to change the
title to: Hardness and Conductivity.
Motion made by Doug Matson and seconded by Tom Norris to change the Title of Section 13
to Hardness and or Conductivity Testing. Motion passed.
All comments for AC7102/2 were reviewed during the meeting
There was a general discussion regarding checklist revision and balloting. The discussion
centered on the idea of limiting the ballot to only the items on the checklist being revised.
Some of the suppliers objected to this practice, in this case in particular since the ballot was
not presented as a limited ballot. As a result of the objections, the Task Group decided to
cover each of the technical comments that were not incorporated into the current ballot and
were rejected as non-persuasive or otherwise discounted. This decision carried over to the
discussion of checklist AC7102 Rev G and AC7102/5 Rev C. Additionally, the Staff Engineers
agreed to address ballot comments on a weekly basis in the future.
24.0
AC7102/5 REV C COMMENTS ADDRESSED – OPEN
Comments regarding AC7102/5 were discussed during the meeting on Wednesday. Technical
comments were discussed in detail; comments were rejected or accepted by Task
Group majority vote. Those comments that were accepted were incorporated
into the checklist draft that will be returned to the ballot process.
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HEAT TREATING
OCTOBER 2012
Discussions were held regarding adding questions to cover image analysis for
Vickers and Brinell hardness testing. It was decided to add guidance for this the audit
handbook instead of the checklist.
25.0
SUB-TEAMS MEETING REPORT-OUT - OPEN
No sub-team reports.
26.0
HT-STSTG REPORT OUT - OPEN
Joanna Lisa gave the HT-STSTG meeting debriefs.
Roy Adkins installed as the new HT SSC Representative.
Suppliers still have concerns about the multiple requirements for the same alloy. SSC is trying
to encourage the Subscribers to standardize and minimize the number of requirements.
Roy Adkins first task is to try and elevate this concern to the NMC and the Subscribers and
ask for increased participation to reduce the number of specifications.
See HT-STSTG minutes for meeting details.
27.0
HTTG AUDIT HANDBOOK SUB TEAM REPORT OUT –OPEN
(Team Members Doug Mattson, Cyril Vernault, Johanna Lisa, Andrew Bassett, Bob Lehnen,
Mike Niedzinski, Glenn Rudd, Randy Lewis and Marcel Cuperman)
Marcel Cuperman gave the Heat Treating Task Group Audit Handbook Sub Team debrief.
The Sub Team has recommended two ways to proceed:
1)
Take the explanation from the Handbook and insert against the question in the
checklist.
2)
Modify/update the Audit Handbook, then reference the sections/paragraphs from the
Audit Handbook in the checklist question where applicable.
It was agreed that the Sub Team would work to option (2).
During the October meeting the updates to the Handbook IAW Option 2 were discussed at the
open meeting.
Significant amount of discussion about adding comments to the audit checklist when
answering yes to the “top 10 questions”
Motion made by Jeff Thyssen and seconded by Gerald Harvey to strike revision to section
3.2.6. Motion passed.
There was a suggestion to have the supplier’s pre-audit checklist, which includes objective
evidence of compliance, to the auditor’s final report. This suggestion was rejected.
ACTION ITEM: Sub Team to continue to review Audit Handbook and report progress at February
Task Group meeting (DUE DATE: 22-Feb-12).
28.0
AUDITOR CONFERENCE –OPEN
The Task Group was given a brief summary of the items covered during the Auditor
Conference.
29.0
LABORATORY FURNACES – OPEN
Deferred – the Sub Team will address Laboratory Furnaces, and Hardness and Conductivity
Testing by those other than Heat Treat providers.
30.0
TEMPER VERIFICATION AT OTHER SOURCES THAN SUPPLIERS – OPEN
11
HEAT TREATING
OCTOBER 2012
A discussion was led by Doug Matson proposing to move audit of Conductivity and Hardness
to AC7102/5. No Action taken.
31.0
AC7102 REV G COMMENTS ADDRESSED –OPEN
Each technical comment made during the previous ballot (that was not included in the revision
or otherwise discounted) was reviewed with the Task Group in the open meeting. Each of the
comments regarding the checklist were discussed in the open meeting. The comments were
rejected by majority of votes, or accepted by majority of votes. The accepted comments were
incorporated into the checklist. The checklist draft was updated during the discussion at the
conclusion of each comment discussion. All technical comments were resolved during the
meeting. The checklist discussion was closed and will be sent back to the Task Group for
affirmation ballot. The suppliers asked the Task Group when revising Heat Treat
specifications to address re-work and re-heat treatment. The suppliers stated that many
Subscriber specifications do not address rework and re-heat treatment.
32.0
NMC METRICS – OPEN
NMC metric charts were presented to the Task Group. All the charts were green except for
Auditor Capacity, TG cycle time for reaccreditation audits, and suppliers on merit. Auditor
capacity is 105% which is red. Task Group cycle time for reaccreditation audits are 9 days
which is yellow. The metrics for suppliers on merit is at 73% which is yellow.
Additional auditors are needed in the US and Europe to meet the minimum 130% capacity
requirements.
33.0
INITIAL AUDITOR TRAINING – OPEN
Staff Engineer presented the “New Auditor Orientation Program” The purpose was to
introduce the Task Group to the proposal for the new training program for new auditors. The
course is a LMS self-study course designed to be completed in 15 hours. It covers auditing
skills, NCR writing skills, and instruction on Nadcap structure and use of eAuditNet. NIP 6-01
has been revised to incorporate the new training plan which will be implemented in December
2012.
34.0
HTTG CHAIRPERSON REPORT TO NMC - OPEN
Tom Norris gave a brief summary of items discussed at NMC.
35.0
OPENING COMMENTS - OPEN
Opening comments were made by Tom Norris.
36.0
PLANNING & OPS AND ROUNDTABLE DEBRIEFS – OPEN
Tom Norris gave a brief summary of items discussed at the Round Table meeting.
37.0
SSC REPORT - OPEN
The October SSC report was presented by Roy Adkins.
The Supplier Support Committee is to help suppliers navigate the Nadcap process, to find
help if suppliers feel the need to escalate issues beyond the Staff Engineer. Suppliers have
access to mentors if they wish to find help without asking in Task Group meetings or raising
red flags, or just need help understanding Nadcap interpretation of requirements. SSC help is
available for all commodities. SSC meetings are always held on Tuesdays during the Nadcap
meetings from 5:00 to 7:00pm.
38.0
AMEC REPORT - OPEN
12
HEAT TREATING
OCTOBER 2012
Deferred
39.0
HEAT TREAT SURVEY –COMPARISON TREND - OPEN
Staff Engineer presented the results of “Supplier Survey Comparison”
Show the comparison of previous surveys.
Motion made by Jeff Thyssen and seconded by Gerald Harvey to discontinue the survey. In
accordance with past practice the motion was withdrawn by both Jeff Thyssen and Gerald
Harvey. Motion Withdrawn.
ACTION ITEM: The HT-STSTG will meet and provide a list of recommended survey questions to the
Task Group (DUE 22-Feb-13).
There was a suggestion from a Subscriber to add a question to the eAuditNet survey; “How
familiar was the auditor with your process?”
40.0
AUDITOR ADVISORIES –OPEN
Auditor Advisories raised since the last Nadcap meeting was reviewed. These are available
on eAuditNet under Resources/Documents/Public Documents/Heat Treat/Auditor Advisories.
41.0
AUDITOR CAPACITY – FORMULA – OPEN
The Staff Engineer presented on Heat Treat metrics. Currently Heat Treat is red for Auditor
capacity. Heat Treat Auditor Capacity is currently 105%, and the requirement is 130%. Part of
the presentation included the formulas for projecting and calculating auditor capacity. Desired
capacity is 150%. Heat Treat needs auditors in all sectors.
42.0
OPEN MEETING TABLED SUBJECTS - OPEN
Discussion about review of furnace records and review by Quality or designee and is it
recorded on the furnace chart. There is some question about the recording of review with
automated system or some other form. Checklist question 6.1.2 was modified by vote of the
Task Group. 14/1. Need to address this in the audit handbook.
Additional discussion about Automated Acceptance of Furnace Cycles using “State of the Art”
systems automated inspection and acceptance of furnace cycles by the integrated furnace
control system. This is beyond the scope of the checklist ballot; this issue will be discussed at
future meetings. Issue will be referred to the sub-team for Audit Handbook review. Martin Day,
Mike Brandt and Darron Harris were added to the Audit Handbook Sub Team.
43.0
FEBRUARY AGENDA – OPEN
There was a brief discussion of the February 2013 agenda during the meeting. The Staff
Engineers will complete the agenda and forward to the Task Group for review, comment and
approval.
44.0
FUTURE WORKSHOPS-OPEN
After the discussions it was agreed to hold a Workshop at the February Task Group meeting.
Suggested topics included:Cyril Vernault: Presentation regarding SAFRAN’s requirements.
Alexander Klyuch: Tensile Test presentation
Doug Matson: Top Ten NCRs
13
HEAT TREATING
OCTOBER 2012
45.0
RAIL NEW ACTIONS – OPEN
Six new actions added to the rail.
Chair to contact Primes not meeting requirements of NTGOP-01
HT-STSTG to meet and provide a list of recommended survey questions.
Task Group to address provision for transition from AMS2705D to AMS270E for the purchase
and use of sensors per table I etc.., and address the requirements of 3.1.5.2
Task Group will commission a Sub Team to work with MTL regarding Conductivity Testing
and Hardness Test Equipment.
Chair to contact owner of NOP 11(Mike Graham) and Chair of Standardization regarding the
“Add Scope” criteria proposed by the Task Group. Additionally, the Chair will add this item to
the Round Table for to the agenda for February meeting.
Add an explanation of AC7102 questions 12.16 and 13.16 to the Audit Handbook.
46.0
OPENING COMMENTS - CLOSED
Opening comments made by Tom Norris
47.0
CLOSED MEETING TABLED SUBJECTS - CLOSED
Add Scope change to NOP-011
Action: Chair to contact owner of NOP 11(Mike Graham) and Chair of Standardization
Committee and add to the Round Table agenda for February meeting.
Bob Faticanti Auditor Consistency presentation Question 12.16 and 13.16 discussed.
Motion made by Doug Matson and seconded by Martin Day to change the questions to “Did
this job comply with all other requirements.”. Motion passed.
This editorial change will be included with the current AC7102 ballot.
ACTION ITEM: Staff Engineer to add an explanation of AC7102 questions 12.16 and 13.16 to the
Audit Handbook (DUE DATE 22-Feb-13).
From discussions it was agreed that a deep dive should take place on questions for certain
questions on pyrometry, procedures etc.
Motion made by Mark Emerson and seconded by Jeff Thyssen to create Sub Team for
Auditor Consistency/Convergence of Auditors average NCRs. Motion passed.
Members of Sub Team are: Cedric Colas, Bob Faticanti, Sunder Rajan, Mark Emerson, Jeff
Thyssen, Tom Norris, Gerald Harvey, Mike Corsino, and Cyril Vernault.
ACTION ITEM: Sub-team of Cedric Colas, Bob Faticanti, Sunder Rajan, Mark Emerson, Jeff Thyssen,
Tom Norris, Gerald Harvey, Mike Corsino, Cyril Vernault and Staff Engineer to review Auditor
Consistency/Convergence of Auditors average NCRs. . (DUE DATE: 22-Feb-13).
48.0
AUDITS ALLOCATION – OPEN
Audit Allocations were made up through February 2013.
49.0
NEW BUSINESS - OPEN
Jeff Thyssen led a discussion on the definition of “Work Zone” in continuous belt furnace as it
relates to the “plane method” of performing TUS. Jeff Thyssen will write an auditor advisory
and send to Staff Engineers.
14
HEAT TREATING
OCTOBER 2012
ACTION ITEM: Jeff Thyssen to write an Auditor Advisory on the definition of ‘Work Zone” in
continuous belt furnace as it relates to the “plane method” of performing TUS and to send to Staff
Engineer for dissemination to Auditors (DUE DATE: 22-Feb-13).
The Task Group discussed the checklist AC7102 Section 1.1 d and 3.2.2.e which requires
that the Subscriber Customer names to be provided to the auditor. No action taken.
Motion made by Dave Damasauskas and seconded by Doug Matson to table the subject and
bring back to the February meeting. Motion passed.
The Task Group discussed the issue of allowing suppliers to attend a portion of the auditor
conference. There is a new procedure, NIP 6-02 in process, which addresses supplier
participation in the auditor conference. Add to agenda for February meeting.
ACTION ITEM: Staff Engineer to add Suppliers attending Auditor Training to February Nadcap
meeting agenda (DUE DATE: 1-Nov-12).
The Task Group discussed the number of N/A’s added to the checklist. Members expressed
concerns about the number of N/A’s that were added to the checklist during this meeting. This
suggests that perhaps there should be separate checklist for raw materials, and for castings
and forgings. Another option is to get active in the “Smart Checklist” and try to accelerate the
implementation. And a third option is to have separate Task Groups for raw materials, and
Casting and Forgings.
Add to new business to discuss lapsed accreditation notification.
This item was not discussed as New Business during the October meeting.
Doug Matson provided a summary of the AMEC Committee G and the work on a new
specification that will attempt to help control raw material producers and distributors. The main
concern is unauthorized re-processing of raw material and reselling the reprocessed material
through distribution networks.
Cyril Vernault suggested adding a statement to the Pyrometry Guide to clarify that the SAT
requirements for controlling and recording instruments includes the entire chain of equipment.
Cyril will e-mail a draft to the Staff Engineers.
ACTION ITEM: Cyril to email a draft of the Pyrometry Guide that includes clarification that the SAT
requirements for controlling and recording instruments include the entire chain of equipment. (DUE
DATE: 22-Feb-13).
50.0
FINALIZE FEBRUARY 2013 AGENDA-OPEN
The agenda for the February 2013 Nadcap meeting was discussed.
It was agreed that the Staff Engineers would create the agenda and forward to the Task
Group for approval/modification.
ACTION ITEM: Staff Engineer to create agenda for February 2013 meeting, and forward for Task
Group for review and approval. (DUE DATE: 1-Nov-12)
ADJOURNMENT – 25-Oct-12 – Meeting was adjourned at 12:20 p.m.
Minutes Prepared by: Bruce Brownfield, Lockheed Martin, bruce.brownfield@lmco.com
15
HEAT TREATING
OCTOBER 2012
***** For PRI Staff use only: ******
Are procedural/form changes required based on changes/actions approved
during this meeting? (select one)
YES*
NO
*If yes, the following information is required:
Documents requiring
revision:
Who is responsible:
AC7102-Affirmation
Ballot
Staff Engineers
5-Nov-12
AC7102/5-Affirmation
Ballot
Staff Engineers
5-Nov-12
AC7102/2-Affirmation
Ballot
Staff Engineers
5-Nov-12
16
Due date: