CC04262010 - City of Shawnee

PAGE 1 CITY COUNCIL MINUTES APRIL 26, 2010

Journal Page 13952

CITY OF SHAWNEE

CITY COUNCIL MEETING

MINUTES

APRIL 26, 2010

7:30 P.M.

Mayor Meyers called the meeting to order at 7:29 p.m. in the Shawnee City Hall Council Chambers. He welcomed the public and led everyone in reciting the Pledge of Allegiance, followed by a moment of silence.

Councilmembers Present

Councilmember Morris

Councilmember Sawyer

Councilmember Kuhn

Staff Present

City Manager Gonzales

Assistant City Manager Charlesworth

City Clerk Powell

Councilmember Vaught

Councilmember Sandifer

Councilmember Distler

Councilmembers Absent

Councilmember Pflumm

City Attorney Rainey

Assistant City Attorney Rainey

Planning Director Chaffee

Police Chief Morgan

Parks and Recreation Director Holman

Finance Director Kidney

City Engineer Wesselschmidt

Fire Chief Hudson

Public Works Director Freyermuth

Information Technologies Director Doherty

Senior Project Engineer Lindstrom

Chief Codes Administrator Thompson

Members of the public who spoke: (Item 12) DAVID WATERS, TOM SARAGUSA, IMY SMITH, MIKE HARVILL,

HAROLD JACKSON, JOHN WATERS, TOM MCCLOUD; (Item 15) CHUCK FERGUSON, Deputy Transportation Director for Johnson County Transit.

CONSENT AGENDA

1. APPROVE MINUTES FROM THE CITY COUNCIL MEETING OF APRIL 12, 2010.

2.

3.

4.

REVIEW MINUTES FROM THE PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING OF APRIL 5, 2010.

REVIEW MINUTES OF THE DECEMBER 17, 2009 BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS MEETING.

REQUEST FROM THE SHAWNEE CHAPTER OF ALCOHOLICS ANONYMOUS TO WAIVE THE RENTAL FEE

FOR SHAWNEE TOWN HALL.

5 . RESOLUTION CONSENTING TO ENLARGEMENT OF CONSOLIDATED MAIN SEWER DISTRICT TO

INCLUDE PROPERTY ON JOHNSON DRIVE, NEAR OGG ROAD.

Having been adopted, Resolution 1596 was assigned.

6. RESOLUTION CONSENTING TO ENLARGEMENT OF CONSOLIDATED MAIN SEWER DISTRICT TO

INCLUDE WEST HALF OF LOT 11, RESURVEY OF GREENWOOD.

Having been adopted, Resolution 1597 was assigned.

7. CONSIDER S-085-10-04, A SIGN VARIANCE FOR COLOR FOR BATTERIES PLUS AT 15323 W. 67TH

STREET.

Councilmember Sandifer, seconded by Councilmember Kuhn, moved to approve the entire Consent Agenda. The motion carried 6-0.

MAYOR'S ITEMS

8. PROCLAMATION FOR NATIONAL POLICE WEEK.



Mayor Meyers presented to Police Chief Morgan a proclamation proclaiming the week of May 9 through May 15,

2010 as National Police Week in the City of Shawnee.

MISCELLANEOUS MAYOR ITEMS a) Mayor Meyers recognized the Government students from Shawnee Mission Northwest. He wished the seniors the best of luck after graduation. b) Mayor Meyers stated they will replace Councilmember Cheryl Scott as a Ward 1 councilmember. He stated appointments for that position closed at 5:00 p.m. today (4/26/2010). Five individuals have submitted. They will hold a Special Call City Council meeting to consider that appointment at 6:00 p.m. at the May 10, 2010 meeting.

APPOINTMENTS

9. CONSIDER APPOINTMENT TO THE PLANNING COMMISSION.

Mayor Meyers stated he is recommending the appointment of Alan Willoughby to the Planning Commission with a term expiring on June 30, 2010.

Councilmember Sawyer, seconded by Councilmember Sandifer, moved to appoint Alan Willoughby to the

Planning Commission to finish the term of "B" Miller expiring on June 30, 2010.

Councilmember Morris stated he encourages, as Alan has, citizens to get involved and be part of their community to help lead this community forward. He stated he encourages anyone with knowledge on urban planning to apply for the Planning Commission.

Therefore the motion read:

Councilmember Sawyer, seconded by Councilmember Sandifer, moved to appoint Alan Willoughby to the

Planning Commission to finish the term of "B" Miller expiring on June 30, 2010. The motion carried 6-0.

Mayor Meyers recognized Mr. Willoughby and thanked him for his participation.

PUBLIC ITEMS

10. CONSIDER A RESOLUTION STATING THE CITY IS CONSIDERING ESTABLISHING A TAX INCREMENT

FINANCING (TIF) DISTRICT, AUTHORIZING A PUBLIC HEARING, DESCRIBING THE PROPOSED

BOUNDARIES OF THE DISTRICT, AND DESCRIBING THE DISTRICT PLAN.

Mayor Meyers stated that on June 8, 2009, the City Council passed Ordinance 2935 establishing a tax increment financing district for property located at the southeast corner of I-435 and Johnson Drive. On July 27, 2009,

Ordinance 2940 was passed terminating the District. On March 17, 2010, the City received a letter from

Hodgdon/RDD/Jones, the original applicants, asking the Governing Body to reconsider the district.

Councilmember Kuhn, seconded by Councilmember Vaught, moved to adopt a resolution providing for a public hearing concerning the establishment of a redevelopment district located at the southeast corner of I-435 and

Johnson Drive. The motion carried 6-0. Having been adopted, Resolution 1605 was assigned.

11. CONTINUE THE PUBLIC HEARING ON CREATION OF A COMMUNITY IMPROVEMENT DISTRICT FOR TEN

QUIVIRA PLAZA.

Mayor Meyers stated that at the February 22, 2010 City Council meeting, the Council adopted a resolution setting a notice of public hearing to consider the creation of a Community Improvement District for Ten Quivira Plaza. At the April 12, 2010 City Council meeting the public hearing was continued to the meeting of April 26, 2010. City staff and the developer are recommending that the public hearing be continued again to May 10, 2010, City

Council meeting.

Councilmember Kuhn, seconded by Councilmember Sandifer, moved to continue the public hearing to the City

Council meeting of Monday, May 10, 2010, commencing at 7:30 p.m.



City Manager Gonzales stated she wanted to assure the Council and public that there are no problems, issues, or concerns, as it is really a matter of time. She stated the staff was under the belief they were ready to move forward. She stated Ten Quivira has had another deal in another part of the country they have been trying to close and are limited in staff, as is the City, so they held several meetings last week and have several more meeting scheduled this week and very much hope to move forward. She stated there are a lot of details to review and this is the City’s first community improvement district, so they are trying to work through it in the correct fashion before it comes before the Council.


Councilmember Kuhn, seconded by Councilmember Sandifer, moved to continue the public hearing to the City

Council meeting of Monday, May 10, 2010, commencing at 7:30 p.m. The motion carried 6-0.

12. CONSIDER TEMPORARY STREET CONNECTION OF 57TH STREET, BETWEEN MEADOWVIEW LANE AND

HEDGE LANE TERRACE.

Mayor Meyers stated that construction of the K-7 and 55th Street interchange has begun and there has been a great deal of interest from surrounding residents to temporarily connect 57th Street to the Oak West development during construction to provide better access than the current detours provide.

City Engineer Wesselschmidt stated he will begin with some background and history and then turn it over to

Senior Project Engineer Lindstrom who will go over more of the specifics of the connection of the street.

City Engineer Wesselschmidt presented a slide showing the area west of K-7, south of 55 th Street. He stated they sent letters to all of the property owners in the area, somewhere around 430 owners, about the consideration of a connection of this road to aid with the traffic flow during construction. They held a neighborhood meeting with a number of the property owners at Monticello Trails Middle School. A good number turned out to ask questions and get answers, as well as provide the staff with questions to further evaluate before making the recommendation to the City Council included in toni ght’s packet.

City Engineer Wesselschmidt stated the original subdivision in this area was called Monticello Meadows. It was platted and most of it put in before the time the City annexed that area, so it was put in through the County. He stated there are ditch section roads with no sidewalks. Since that time, there was a portion of a subdivision in called Cityview Farms prior to the annexing and the rest was put in afterwards. He stated it does not show up in the aerial shot and Belmont Elementary School is under construction. Its lone access will be from the north side.

That school will have much better access in the future.

City Engineer Wesselschmidt stated Heritage Hills is another subdivision in the area that gets all of its access through the Monticello Meadows subdivision. He stated when the Monticello Meadows subdivision was put in, there were two streets that were stubbed to the west, two to the south, and another street was stubbed to the east . The City’s standard is when they have stubbed streets of a certain distance, they have a temporary turnaround put in, so trash trucks, emergency vehicles, and even passenger cars have a place to turn around, as opposed to turning around in driveways.

City Engineer Wesselschmidt noted the spot in ‘red’, is the section of the street that not there between the temporary turnaround and the Oak Valley West Shopping Center. He noted the frontage road. Part of that was put in with the shopping center and the rest was put in as a connection that was necessary for getting traffic from

K-7 to the shopping center while 55 th Street is under construction with a KDOT project.

City Engineer Wesselschmidt presented a closer detail. He stated there has been a lot of discussion as to what the intent of this street was at the time the subdivision and shopping center went in, even today. He pointed out the lines in blue, which are property lines, and show the right-of-way line as well. He stated it had 50 foot right-ofway platted all the way to the east property line. There is no right-of-way for the cul-de-sac. If it was intended to be a permanent cul-de-sac at the time it came into the County with the way it was platted, it would have right-ofway all the way around.

City Engineer Wesselschmidt stated at one t ime, this was shown on the City’s CIP (Capital Improvement Plan) when KDOT had the funding available to proceed with this project. He stated the staff put it on their CIP and since that time, it had been removed at a point when they were trying to remove projects and reduce the cost of the Plan. Since that time, the staff has looked more precisely at what it would take to put the road in as a permanent fixture and Senior Project Engineer Lindstrom will address further later in the meeting.



Councilmember Sawyer asked City Engineer Wesselschmidt when they put the shopping center in, didn’t they want to continue this street and make another access.

City Engineer Wesselschmidt answered at the time the Oak Valley shopping center came in, the staff’s recommendation was that the developer make this a public street and situate his buildings and parking lots on either side. He stated as they got into Planning Commission review and City Council review, there were a number of things that were done to make the shopping center fit into the neighborhood as good as possible.

City Engineer Wesselschmidt continued that some of that included the trees on the back side, as well as the berm and fencing on the back side. He stated it was also stipulated to the shopping center developer that he would not be required to put this in as a public street and connect it.

Councilmember Sawyer stated at that time, the City could have gotten the shopping center developer to pay for it.

City Engineer Wesselschmidt replied that was the staff’s original recommendation, because not only did the developer put in Hedge Lane Terrace down to his south property line . . .

Councilmember Sawyer stated he sat on the Planning Commission at the time this particular issue came up and was in favor of getting the shopping center developer to put the street in, but it did not end up going that way. He stated now the City is going to come back and spend money out of the General Fund to make it happen. He stated he understands why it needs to happen now, but sometimes their short term thinking does not necessarily meet out with long term goals.

Councilmember Kuhn stated she knows that the frontage road that has been put in on the K-7 side is for access while 55 th is being closed and not intended to stay. She asked what happens to it when 55 th and Johnson Drive open back up and all is fully useable on Clear Creek Parkway.

City Engineer Wesselschmidt pointed out Hedge Lane Terrace, which was put in with the shopping center. He stated 55 th Street will be closed this summer. He presented a slide showing the area in ‘green’ that will begin this summer which will close 55 th Street at Hedge Lane. He stated the area in ‘yellow’ will still be opened for a period of time and they will then move over to t he ‘blue’ area. Between the blue and green areas there will be no northerly access to the shopping center. There will also be no access from K-7 to 55 th Street. He stated all access to these residents will need to come from 47 th Street.

Councilmember Kuhn stated she actually meant to say Clear Creek earlier. She clarified that she is talking about the access from K-7 onto Clear Creek that brings cars around while K-7 is being worked on. She thinks a portion of that is temporary.

City Manager Gonzales stated Clear Creek into Hedge Lane Terrace and going north stays.

Councilmember Kuhn stated that was her question, because they talked some about whether or not they were going to have streetlights on there while this was going and does not remember the final answer.

City Engineer Wesselschmidt stated about one year ago, KDOT put in the actual first phase of this entire construction project and that was to extend Clear Creek Parkway west of K-7 and build Hedge Lane Terrace up to the shopping center. He stated KDOT, with City approval, put in a partial street; a street built to City standards, as far as width and thickness is concerned but does not have curbs, sidewalks, or streetlights.

City Engineer Wesselschmidt stated they did it like that because a few property owners in the area do not know what they want to do with their property. He stated they could sell the property to a developer who could come up with an entirely different layout. For example, it could bring the street down in different directions, so in that case would be a throw away street, so they did not want to tie a lot of public funds into a road that may not stay there, or tie the hands of those property owners or a future developer on how that would develop by having some type of a permanent street.

Councilmember Kuhn asked if they are putting in basically a temporary access that will give both sides, until they figure out what those two property owners are going to do in the future, and then the choice will either be to allow it and possibly improve it or take it out and replace it with something different.



City Engineer Wesselschmidt stated that is correct. He pointed to the road on the map that will stay in, as is, until the ground develops. He stated they will either locate it to a location that they would like, or bring it up to full City standards in its position. He stated towards the end of the whole KDOT project, the at-grade intersection is removed and a bridge will be put in that basically goes from the west side to the east side. Direct access to K-7 will be eliminated by the time this project is done.

Councilmember Morris asked to go back to the close-up of 57 th Street. He asked if the blue lines indicate right-ofway.

City Engineer Wesselschmidt replied that is correct; blue lines are right-of-way and property lines.

Councilmember Morris asked if the City has right-of-way or property through the shopping center.

City Engineer Wesselschmidt answered yes.

Councilmember Morris stated temporarily they do not need that, but in long term will need it.

City Engineer Wesselschmidt stated that is correct. He stated if the action of the Council and what they are alluding to is at the end of the project, they will make that decision. He stated if at the end of the project the direction of the Council is that they like the road, the neighbors like the road, and they want to keep it and make it permanent in nature, they would then approach the shopping center owner regarding turning it over as a City street and dedicating it as right-of-way and the City would maintain it.

Councilmember Morris (off microphone) asked as long as it is temporary, is the City responsible for the maintenance.

City Engineer Wesselschmidt replied no. He stated there are some occasions where the City has streets that tie into a shopping center. It is not a typical situation where they are taking traffic and dumping it directly in. He stated the best example would be Ten Quivira Shopping Center – the street to the west of that center goes directly into the shopping center and there is a fair amount of through traffic that goes all the way over to Quivira.

He stated this is certainly a much shorter section, so if it is the desire at the end of this project that it be kept in a permanent manner, the staff’s recommendation would be that it become a City street. He stated it would not have to and if the shopping center owner said they would like to keep it in their control, setback issues and things like that, it could work both ways.

Councilmember Morris asked if the staff has an estimated traffic count when it opens up.

City Engineer Wesselschmidt asked Councilmember Morris if he meant when 55 th Street is closed.

Councilmember Morris answered yes and 57 th Street is temporarily opened; does the staff know an anticipated traffic count through that shopping center.

City Engineer Wesselschmidt replied based on the number of homes in the area, the staff’s best estimates would be somewhere around 2,000 to 3,000 cars a day. He stated some of the measures the staff recommends is that one, it not be signed as a detour route, although over a period of time the residents are going to be aware that that is a way they can get to those businesses. Secondly, they would also sign it for no trucks.

City Engineer Wesselschmidt stated there is currently about 6,000 cars a day on 55 th Street. He stated if the majority of them are going to be going, which includes traffic from both sides of 55 th Street, the majority are going to go up old K-7 to 47 th Street and use that portion of the detour and is a number they could expect on that road.

City Engineer Wesselschmidt stated for that period of time until KDOT completes the construction at Hedge Lane and 55 th Street, the residents would go up 55 th Street and back into the shopping center.

City Manager Gonzales asked for the time period – was it two and a half (2 ½) months.

City Engineer Wesselschmidt replied that is the schedule KDOT has given the staff at this time, beginning around the first of August and having the work completed around mid-October.

Councilmember Vaught stated he has talked to a lot of neighbors on this and read the minutes from both the

Planning Commission meeting that Councilmember Sawyer sat on, as well as the Council meeting. He stated if


Journal Page 13947 what he read is correct, when the decision was made and brought up about opening that up, the idea of opening it was not for convenience of access in the back, but because at the time they wanted two entry points into the development. He stated there was concern because the only entrance point into it was Hedge Lane at 55 th

Street, because Hedge Lane was not completed to the south. He stated for safety reasons, the idea was to have two entry points into that development.

City Engineer Wesselschmidt responded that would have been one of the reasons; whether it is a retail area, office area, industrial area, or residential area having of a certain size, having two access points is much better than one.

Councilmember Vaught asked if now with completion to the south, they obviously have two access points, so it is not an access point, as much as it is a convenience issue for the construction period – obviously.

City Engineer Wesselschmidt stated with some assistance from the City’s Fire Department, it also improves the response time for the area during the construction period - the two and a half month period where they have no access at this point.

Councilmember Vaught stated another thing he remembers reading, was there was some concern that without that access to the intersection at Hedge Lane and 55 th Street which is without stoplights, they could not handle that much traffic flow and did not have stacking ability coming off K-7. He read, and what it appeared to say, was that as development and traffic increases on 55 th Street, without an access point there, there is concern if they keep increasing traffic on 55 th Street and Hedge Lane, as it would have to increase the quality of that intersection whether it gets stoplights or whatever.

City Engineer Wesselschmidt asked Councilmember Vaught if he was referring to the time the shopping center came in.

Councilmember Vaught answered yes. At the time the shopping center came in, the concern was that intersection was not designed to handle that much traffic, so the idea was to have it opened up which would take some of the traffic off 55 th Street.

City Engineer Wesselschmidt stated that is correct and he is not sure that subdivision was here at the time the shopping center came in, but they had all of the residents that were coming up to, for example, go to Price

Chopper in that day, and coming up to 55 th Street and down to the grocery store. . .

Councilmember Vaught stated that is not completely unusual because with most developments, cars have to go around them and do not make direct shots.

City Engineer Wesselschmidt stated if their intent was just to go to the grocery store, they did not necessarily have to go up to 55 th Street and gave them a more convenient way to frequent those businesses.

Councilmember Vaught stated obviously with the rotary that alleviates the issue of overdoing that intersection, because the rotary can handle quite a bit of traffic and is its intent.

City Engineer Wesselschmidt stated that is correct.

Councilmember Vaught stated he would go back to the intent of the cul-de-sac and has been going back and forth trying to get his head around this. He stated when the County had that, and he looked at the original plat when these people purchased their lots in there and they can sit there and say they should have known, but the plat that was presented to them when they bought their houses showed that as a half cul-de-sac. KDOT is now proposing a half cul-de-sac at the end of the first street when they bought the one house at the end of

Meadowview.

Councilmember Vaught stated at the end of Meadowview, that is the same cul-de-sac that going to be proposed – a half cul-de-sac. He stated it still has the look, touch, and feel of a cul-de-sac.

Councilmember Vaught stated these people bought their lots there and it bothers him, because when they get into this whole discussion about whether it is temporary or permanent, he really thinks they need to clarify if it is truly temporary or if this thing is going to drag on. He stated at first he was thinking it made sense to open it and after talking to the residents and looking at that, these people paid premium dollar for those lots because when they bought, that looked as being a cul-de-sac and people pay more for cul-de-sac lots. He stated it might have been


Journal Page 13946 when the County had it, but the idea of annexing is not to punish people, but to improve their standards and quality of life.

Councilmember Vaught stated his biggest issue is when they are getting into the gray area of whether it will be temporary with an end date, or temporary until the City decides what they want to do, because he is having a hard time figuring out they can justify going directly from a residential neighbor, straight into a parking lot of a commercial development.

Ci ty Engineer Wesselschmidt stated one of the first parts of Councilmember Vaught’s statement was should someone have known if that was a temporary. He stated he is not saying that they should have known and in this case when one goes out and looks at a lot in a developing subdivision, it would have been difficult to determine visually if it is a permanent cul-de-sac or a temporary turnaround. He stated they have recognized that more recently, because when they have subdivisions going in today, they place signs at the end of those temporary turnarounds, or the deadend streets that say it is the intention that this street will continue on in the future.

Councilmember Vaught asked if this particular area has ever been signed like that.

City Engineer Wesselsc hmidt answered no. He stated the City’s policy has been since they adopted the use of that sign and have not gone back in history and put up those signs.

Councilmember Sandifer stated he understands they are going to post NO TRUCK signs on the street.


Councilmember Sandifer asked if the school is under construction, how the commercial construction and equipment vehicles are going to get through.

City Engineer Wesselschmidt replied those trucks will have to use the sign detour, which would be K-7 to 47 th

Street to Old K-7, west on 55 th Street, and down Belmont Street.

Councilmember Sandifer asked if there will be any exceptions.

City Engineer Wesselschmidt answered no.

Councilmember Distler stated the current average response time for emergency vehicles in the City is 4.6 to 4.7 minutes. She stated at first it hit her going from 3.3 to 5.5 minutes, but if the average is 4.7 minutes, there are probably other areas in the City that are about 5.5 minutes.


Councilmember Distler stated it is not like they are putting these people in more of a dangerous situation than other residents may be, as far as average response time.

Fire Chief Hudson answered compared to some other areas of Shawnee – a few.

Councilmember Distler stated it would increase their time, but not necessarily overall.

Fire Chief Hudson stated that is correct.

Councilmember Distler stated they are looking at about 2 ½ months, as far as the amount of time the people would be cut off from that main vein.

City Engineer Wesselschmidt stated at least that is the latest information the staff received from KDOT.

Councilmember Distler stated she understands what Councilmember Vaught is saying, because they have heard time and time again when people come in, that developers have told them ‘this’ and real estate agents have told them ‘that’, and the Council can not unfortunately hold them to things they tell people if that was or was not the plan. Unfortunately it does not work that way and those kinds of things have come before the Council so many times before.



Councilmember Distler stated some of the emails she received today not only want it as a temporary street, but want it when they are done replaced as is, putting the berm, trees, wood fence, and everything back as is. She asked if that is even possible in the $50,000 they are estimating to do for a temporary connection, to pull all that back out and replace it to the way it was.

City Engineer Wesselschmidt answered yes, actually that cost is included in the $50,000.

Councilmember Distler asked if that includes pulling the street back out and putting it back exactly how it was.

City Engineer Wesselschmidt answered yes. He stated that would include fence, a pine tree or two, a little curb on the shopping center side, removing the pavement and sodding to cover it. He stated if the direction of the

Council is to put it in and remove it, they would restore it to somewhat of better condition than it is today, as it never quite got fully restored with all the utility work back in that area.

Councilmember Distler stated she is trying to weigh everything on both sides and it concerns her with the fund already being underfunded next year, the fact that it is a temporary thing for such a short amount of time. She stated if this project was going to take three years or something and they needed an outlet, she thinks she could justify it a little more than two and a half months and the response time is not more than other areas within the

City.

Mayor Meyers stated he keeps hearing the two and a half month period thrown out. He asked if it is not the City staff’s recommendation and discussion that was presented to residents that if this was a temporary road and put back the way it was, it would be for the duration of the project which he was assuming was close to two years.

City Engineer Wesselschmidt stated that was the recommendation made in the staff report, one if they are going to go to the expense to put it in, provide it through the duration of the project. He stated although they will try to sign it as good as possible and KDOT signs it as good as possible, there is a certain level of confusion of how a motorist gets to one place or another. By having this second access point for the residents to the west coming off

Clear Creek Parkway to Hedge Lane, allows those residents to get to their homes and completely avoid a construction zone. He stated again, that was the staff’s recommendation to put it in and have it in through the duration of the construction.

Mayor Meyers asked City Engineer Wesselschmidt if that is something the residents heard.

City Engineer Wesselschmidt replied he knows that is what he expressed when they were meeting with residents that evening. He is sure they covered it with their staff. He stated there were several tables in that group, but he talked to a number of residents and indicated when they put a staff report together that would be the recommendation, to put the connection in and evaluate it at the end of construction in case there is some overwhelming support by the residents to keep it in, in a permanent nature and they would address it at that time, but at least keep it in through the duration of this project’s construction.

Councilmember Kuhn apologized because she did not realize that $50,000 included the potential to go back and make it whole again, if the Council’s direction was to close it at that time. She asked City Engineer

Wesselschmidt if he could give her an estimate as to what the cost actually is to just putting it in.

City Engineer Wesselschmidt replied they estimated about $45,000 to put it in and about $5,000 to remove it.

Councilmember Kuhn stated she wants to hear from a good portion of the audience, but she has been asked to make sure that the Council hears a representation as well from a large number of the business owners who have been fairly active. She had an opportunity to meet with business owners on both sides of K-7 and that entire area represents about 36 total businesses, especially the ones affected by that particular shopping center. She stated they asked that their voice be loudly heard that while this construction is going on, even after 55 th Street opens for those three months, any ease of local neighborhood folk to use those local neighborhood businesses is only going to be enhanced by that being open.

Councilmember Kuhn stated for a neighborhood person to drive all the way back out to 55 th Street to drive back through, especially where there might be additional construction or other problems, would really be a detriment to their businesses and a hardship when the City is already asking them to overcome hardships of not being able to come across Johnson Drive into 55 th Street, which will still continue to be closed, and they would then limit their ability to come off K-7 and visit.



Councilmember Kuhn stated that was something that was expressly asked; that they make sure that the Council understands that for the duration of the project at least they would like to see that remain open. She stated, as

City Engineer Wesselschmidt pointed out earlier, if they are expecting to see about 2,000 cars during the time in which it is closed, they can assume they will still see some afterwards, which means people are using a local business and local folks have access.

Councilmember Kuhn stated she would add where they are talking about the temporary guaranteed now, versus the consideration of it at a later date. She stated her initial thought to it would be that she does not know two years from now, when this project is done, whether the right thing to do is leave it open or closed. She read a letter today from one of their constituents that said the Council should not come back and change something that a Council previously had said.

Councilmember Kuhn stated while she understands the concept behind that, her problem is if that was what they lived by, then this would already be open and no one would have ever taken into consideration those neighbors ’ feelings when this was developed. This is what the Council said originally. It was supposed to go through, but because of Council discussion, neighborhood talks, and because people were able to come before the Council when that shopping center opened, the City Council and the Planning Commission, because of what was in front of them at that time, were able to make a decision that was based on that neighborhood input and did not have it go through.

Councilmember Kuhn stated when she was on the Council, and they talked earlier about the CIP, that was on there as a CIP that had been approved for a number of years with it expecting to go through and part of what that reasoning was, was that there was no immediate need for that to go through so they removed it from the CIP and said they did not need to do it right now, even though a previous Council had approved expenditures to have it go all the way through.

Councilmember Kuhn stated her answer to this would be that the Council does not know what two years is going to bring. She wholeheartedly recognizes the concerns and worries of the neighbors living there right now, about what it looks like with all of it going on, but thinks they would be somewhat irresponsible not to wait until the end of the project, give it a couple of months to see what happens, and then do exactly what they kept their word on this time and that is, have the neighbors tell the Council how it is working out and is it as bad as they thought it was going to be and if it is, close it back up and they can work from there.

Councilmember Kuhn stated if the neighbors and businesses and community find it an asset, then how do they, as that Council, just go back anyway and change that Council’s mind two years from now and if they come back and say they want it, that is still changing it.

Councilmember Kuhn asked why would they make a definitive decision now on something that is going to come back before them anyway.

Councilmember Vaught stated he understands where Councilmember Kuhn is coming from as far as businesses and totally agrees, because he is very pro-business and they need to project the businesses through the construction. He stated to clarify what he said, he is not opposed to opening this temporarily for the duration of the project, but struggles with permanent.

Councilmember Vaught stated in argument with what Councilmember Kuhn is talking about, when they talk about the benefit of the neighborhood, when they look at the two sides, there are people in support and people again.

He stated the people in support, support it for convenience. The people opposing it are opposed because of property values. He stated to hurt someone’s property value to benefit someone’s convenience, to him, does not make sense.

Councilmember Vaught stated the property values on the end of that street’s property values will be affected. He stated they now live on a cul-de-sac which increases the value of property and if they leave it permanently open, they no longer live on a cul-de-sac and it is all to increase the convenience for the people behind and he feels for both parties.

Councilmember Vaught asked once 55 th Street is done and the rotary is done, will people not shop there because it is not open – he has a hard time believing that. He stated his real big concern right now is what Councilmember

Morris alluded to earlier. Even if they open this temporarily, access over private property, are they talking about taking a temporary easement over that. He stated in looking back in the notes 10 years ago when this was done, it was looked at as this was just a driveway from a neighborhood into a commercial development.



Councilmember Vaught stated now they are not using it as a driveway into a commercial development and are looking at it as continuation of 57 th Street to Hedge Lane and that is what it is going to be used as, as a continuation of a street over private property. He stated going back to what Councilmember Kuhn said, are they going to look at this in two years and ask if it should be kept open. He stated he has a hard time believing that the people at the end of that street are going to say in two years that they really like having 3,000 cars coming in front of their place, so leave it open. He stated honestly they are going to be the ones negatively affected by it, versus the other people who find it as a convenience.

Councilmember Vaught stated when they talk about running connections like that into developments, he noted

Heartland Hills at the bottom of the map. He stated he sees no street stubs to the east and that is all master planned either commercial or multi-family in front to the east, between that area and K-7.

City Engineer Wesselschmidt replied it is intended to stub to the east.

Councilmember Vaught stated that would be a continuation of a road which would wind through, but he sees no stubs going east.


Councilmember Vaught stated there isn’t, because if that is considered commercial or multi-family. . . . if it was multi-family they could dump into it, but if it went commercial they would not normally connect a residential street, if he is not mistaken, into a commercial development. He stated they would run into a feeder street, which then comes into the commercial development.

City Engineer Wesselschmidt stated there could be, for example, a feeder street or collector street that would run through with some development on the south and north sides.

Councilmember Vaught stated that would be coming out of and if it was done that way, they would have an entrance into the subdivision much like any other residential subdivision that would be bermed with a nice entrance and create a somewhat of a barrier.

City Engineer Wesselschmidt stated it got changed around somewhat when the golf course development can in.

One area is not platted as right-of-way, but set aside as a tract for that street to come out, come down, and go east.

Councilmember Vaught stated when he looks at the whole thing with the rotary, he is trying to get through his head that the City is going to spend that much money to build the rotary, which the whole idea is so it could handle a tremendous amount of traffic, then it does not make sense once that rotary is done to continue, a roundabout or whatever you want to call it, feeding traffic through the back of the commercial development simply for the benefit of convenience.

Councilmember Vaught stated all of this is being done for traffic flow and for modern traffic flow. It would still have this, kind of bizarre connection to the back of a commercial development.

Councilmember Morris stated they have talked about two different lengths of time; one for 2 ½ months and one 18 months to two years. He asked if full completion is the 18 months to two years.

City Engineer Wesselschmidt answered there is an estimated 2 ½ months timeframe that the intersection will be closed, so the only access to the shopping center would be to the south and the only ingress and egress for all of the homes would be via old K-7 and 47 th Street.

Councilmember Morris stated lately in the conversation they have been talking about 18 months to two years. He asked if that meant for full completion of the entire project.

City Engineer Wesselschmidt stated he thinks the entire project is scheduled to be completed in November of

2011. That includes building the bridge. Once they get done with the interchange they drop down. The completion of the whole interchange will probably come in the summer of 2011.

Councilmember Sandifer asked if at the end of the project or at the time of the decision to open or close that road, would the City have to buy right-of-way through that parking lot in order to take over the road.



City Engineer Wesselschmidt stated the City’s first request would be a donation.

Councilmember Sandifer asked if that does not happen, will the City have to purchase it.

City Engineer Wesselschmidt replied if it would be the direction of the Council to acquire that right-of-way by all means, then yes, they would have to pay for it. If the direction of the Council is to have that property owner dedicate that right-of-way and take it over as a City street, or the other condition, if they do not want to donate it as right-of-way, the condition could be that they would maintain it themselves.

Councilmember Sandifer asked if the Council did not want to set a temporary date at this time, are they setting themselves up to buy right-of-way on the road.

City Engineer Wesselschmidt replied the recommendation in the staff report would be that they would evaluate it at the end of the project. At the time they evaluate it, that would be an answer to a question they would have as part of that evaluation. He asked if one question would be if they want to keep it permanent and if so, do they want it as a City street.

Councilmember Sandifer stated it could very well cost more than $50,000 if they want to keep it open.

City Engineer Wesselschmidt replied if they want to keep it open and have it a public street over to Hedge Lane, there could be some costs to acquire the right-of-way, pavement repair, and ongoing maintenance.

Councilmember Kuhn stated she does not want it to be misconstrued that she is advocating that that should be a permanent connection, because she does not know what that should be right now. She stated she is advocating that those of them on the Council today are making an awful lot of assumptions as to what this is going to be like in two years.

Councilmember Kuhn stated Councilmember Vaught mentioned that he cannot imagine that the residents there two years from now are going to want to see that traffic go by. She stated Councilmember Sandifer asked about it costing a lot more than $50,000. She stated her assumption would be at the time they would have to consider if it was going to go, would they be able to have it improved, because if that were to be something permanent sitting there today, her expectation would be that she would not be okay with it, unless it was improved with curbs, gutters, and the safety features necessary.

Councilmember Kuhn stated what she is saying is not that they should be looking at it as a permanent answer, but that the Council should not sit here hamstringing a Council two years from now who needs to take those things into consideration. She stated a lot of them are long term neighbors here this evening, but they do not know what is going to happen.

Councilmember Kuhn stated they all sat here, and she remembers a neighbor who stood up and voiced a very strong opinion with regard to franchise taxes and his adamant disapproval to them. She received an email today that his house is on the market and she got a virtual tour online. She stated while she understands that this resident had every right and every reason to be there for it, he might not be here in two years and they do not know exactly who the neighbors are going to be, which ones are going to be there, or if there will be new neighbors there that for some reason would want it, or what those two properties on that side might be developed into, or if there is any kind of a contract.

Councilmember Kuhn stated they will not know what their budget looks like and if they can afford to make it permanent or if they absolutely can not. She stated they will not know of there is some opportunity to use it as a temporary emergency only entrance that maybe the Police Department and Fire Department could leave open in some different way, but to her those are not questions for this evening.

Councilmember Kuhn stated questions for tonight are should they put in, as the verbiage says, a temporary entrance so when the two years are up, the Council, constituents, and businesses should come back to the table and make the decision. She stated tonight the only decision she is making is if the verbiage says once it is completed should it be considered the assumption is that it looks temporary, but they will make that final determination when the project is done.



Councilmember Kuhn just does not want any misconstrued belief that she is a huge advocate for it being put in for the long, because she is not. She stated she is a huge advocate for it being in put in as soon as possible, temporarily, and reassigning it when the project is done for both its pros and cons.

Councilmember Vaught stated to clarify what he is saying number one they need a differentiation between the two years and how long it is actually needed. He stated if it sits there for two years, he personally thinks it puts a hardship on the people who live on the end of 57 th Street. He stated when they talk about whether those people will even be there in two years, the chances are they will be because they are not going to realize the full value of their houses if they do want to leave, so it will probably compel them not to move.

Councilmember Vaught stated he thinks they really need to look at the length of the project for the roundabout and not the length of the project for the total K-7 project, because he does not think having the complete K-7 project is relevant as to whether this stays open past the completion of the roundabout or not.

Councilmember Vaught asked City Engineer Wesselschmidt to put up the close-up again. He stated if they look at the grocery store and they actually put a road through there, what the setback would be for the actual building itself.

Planning Director Chaffee replied it would be 30 feet.

Councilmember Vaught asked if that is from the centerline far from the curb.

Planning Director Chaffee replied it is from the edge of the right-of-way.

Councilmember Vaught asked if they put a road there, how far back does the right-of-way go past the curb.

Planning Director Chaffee replied 11 ½ feet.

City Engineer Wesselschmidt stated the road will probably be 27 feet back-to- back.

Councilmember Vaught stated when Jack built that building, it is a 20,000 square foot Price Chopper and the piece of grass on the south side is actually expansion room.


Councilmember Vaught stated there is room for another 20,000 feet. He stated making that a permanent road takes away any of the expansion room. His concern would be if they make that permanent and the road goes in, then three, four, or five years down the road if some new company shows up and wants to put their 60,000 foot requirement on K-7 and the City loses their possibility there because they put a road through that was not necessarily. He thinks if they did that, they would be taking away a future possibility.

City Engineer Wesselschmidt stated he would imagine they would have a situation where they are creating a situation on a shopping center that did not exist at the time. He stated what he is alluding to, is that any setbacks for buildings and parking lots would be kept with the shopping center, based on the way it was laid out.

Councilmember Vaught stated there is no way then, because that can come almost all the way up to the grass there where the road would be, as they would not put a building wall that close to a road.

City Engineer Wesselschmidt stated Councilmember Vaught is correct in that basically this shopping center was laid out so this building could extend further to the south. He stated he does not believe they are saying if this becomes a right-of-way through there, that they would lose any of that space. He stated quite frankly, he is intending that these 93 parking spaces remain.

Councilmember Vaught asked how they would not lose that, because in looking at the back to the left on 57 th

Street, he asked if the black line would be the sides of the road.

City Engineer Wesselschmidt pointed out the south and north edges of the road.

Councilmember Vaught stated in his opinion that would be rather convoluted.



City Engineer Wesselschmidt stated at some point in the future if this street is brought up to full City standards with curbs, that street would be the same width as the other street there. He believes that was the direction to that development that it would be and if it becomes a through street, it be built to accommodate it.

Councilmember Sawyer asked where they are getting the $50,000.

City Engineer Wesselschmidt relied there is some City costs in the KDOT project and basically that cost would be bonded at the time the project is complete and it would be part of that bonded project.

Councilmember Sawyer (inaudible - off microphone).

Councilmember Kuhn stated not to beat a dead horse, but there is a complete fallacy in the 2 ½ month number.

She stated 2 ½ months is only the period of time that the 55 th Street roundabout right in front of one of the entrances of those businesses are. She stated outside of that, for the remaining portion until November 2011,

Johnson Drive will still be closed across the street which means people will have to go around.

Councilmember Kuhn stated the businesses there are talking about 20-35% drop off from there and not one of those businesses will survive the K-7 project if they do not give access to the local neighborhoods behind it. She stated she absolutely guarantees it and has heard from every one of those businesses who has come to every one of those meetings and talked with the most passion possible that during the K-7 project, the only way they can hope to survive, is if the neighborhoods behind them can make a straight shot in and if the pizza delivery guy does not have to drive all the way around to drive all the way back and they can make easier access.

Councilmember Kuhn stated the other part to that is that, as a Council, they have all sat up here every single time and every one of them has ran on economic development, economic development, economic development. She stated if they are telling her that it is not worth making a thoroughfare go through for the term of that project to make sure that businesses that exist and have already put money into this City, making them survive is not worth it, then everyone on the Council is a liar.

Councilmember Kuhn stated economic development does not just mean pouring money into getting new people into town, but means supporting the businesses they have every way possible through tough economic times.

She stated she knows darn good and well that they had businesses go through when they had problems with another large project on another large street and every councilmember was upset and frustrated.

Councilmember Kuhn stated this is their chance as a Council to put their money where their mouths are and be proactive and do the right thing for their businesses and not take the easy way out.

Councilmember Vaught stated of the tenants who are currently in there, and trust him when he says he is very pro-business and is a small business man and ran on pro-business – he wants to do what he can to look out for them and will clarify. He asked if one of the people moved into that strip shopping center with a single access off

Hedge Lane. He stated it was just that access, because the one on Clear Creek Parkway was just recently completed. He thinks all or most of them moved in with that single access.

Councilmember Vaught stated once that roundabout is completed, nothing changes. He stated they did not move into that shopping center with the promise that some day the City was going to open up 57 th Street, so these neighbors could get to them on an easier route. He stated once that roundabout is complete, he thinks they will have better access because it improves that road. He stated whether or not K-7 is completed, it still brings them back up 55 th Street, around the roundabout, and back into the shopping center, exactly the way they are doing it today, except there is a roundabout versus a right turn.

Councilmember Vaught stated he agrees they need to protect the businesses. He stated his only question is, extending that opening past the duration of the roundabout increases traffic flow to those businesses to people who otherwise would not go there. If the roundabout is open, and how many people back there are not using those businesses now because 57 th Street does not go through. He does not think of them are because they do not have any choice, because past that there are no businesses to the west.

Councilmember Vaught stated if they want those conveniences, they are already in the habit of going up to 55 th

Street, coming up to Hedge Lane, and coming in. He stated all they are doing is taking the burden off during the construction of the roundabout.



Councilmember Vaught stated to continue it past, to him, if a lot of them are thinking maybe they would close this in two years, then why would they prolong that past that when they are already accessing them that way and all they are doing is opening it back up and they are accessing it back the exact same way.

City Engineer Wesselschmidt stated he thinks he covered most of Senior Project Engi neer Lindstrom’s items for presentation.

Senior Project Engineer Lindstrom stated for someone who has not been out to the site, he can provide a little more then an aerial view. He presented a slide of the site looking to the east and is actually from the west side of

57 th Street. It shows the fence and the slight berm that is probably what they would be taking out. There is the fence through there that they would have to take down for the width of the street.

Senior Project Engineer Lindstrom presented a view from the other direction. He stated this would be from the shopping center looking west. He stated there is a slight berm that would need to be removed. They are matching grade from each side and would have to take up some minor curb.

Senior Project Engineer Lindstrom stated there is a fire hydrant in the way which is a minor detail. There is also an AT&T on the west side, but they have already contacted those utilities an will have to put in minor relocation on their part, so that would not delay the project.

Senior Project Engineer Lindstrom stated it is barely in the way because the road would be coming right through, so there are only some minor adjustments to make at that location.

Senior Project Engineer Lindstrom stated he believes they have covered the details of the project itself. He presented the detail of the little work they are doing. He noted it is roughly 115 feet long of 22 foot wide asphalt going through. He stated what they show is the total extent of the project and they would not be going beyond those limits, other than some minor grading adjacent to the street.

Councilmember Vaught asked if that was always intended of being open, why would they let AT&T put a box right there a fire hydrant right in the middle of the road where it would be continued.

Senior Project Engineer Lindstrom relied on the east side, that was done to the development. Since it is not in

City right-of-way, they do not dictate where they would put the fire hydrant. He stated that is to serve that area.

He stated he is not sure in the policy how far they have to be from a business. He stated on the west side, that box actually just went in six months ago and their office was not really aware of it until last minute when it went in.

He stated the staff would have given them better direction of where to locate it, if they had known in time.

Public Comment

DAVID WATERS stating he is representing Bill Higgins, who has lived at 23335 W. 57 th Street since 1994 which is near the location of this road and has a detailed file and detailed memory about this matter.

DAVID WATERS stated some of them may know discussions about this happening several years ago when the

City Council made the decision not to open this up. He does not think it is quite accurate to say that this was always intended to be a temporary turnaround, or is a matter of the Council changing its mind from something that was done previously. It is his understanding that it was initially zoned by the Council and there was an expressed situation put on out there that 57 th Street would “not be a thoroughfare’.

DAVID WATERS stated he thinks a lot of these residents here, and he did not think they thought they would have to come back and reargue this every time, and relied on the Cou ncil’s past actions, the Board of County

Commissioners, and then on to the City, in having this remain as a cul-de-sac. He also believes that the City actually has a cul-de-sac easement here in this area, so that while they do not have right-of-way over that cul-desac, the City was granted a cul-de-sac for maintenance purposes.

DAVID WATERS stated the KDOT project and scope of that work is kind of a Red Herring thing, as

Councilmember Vaught alluded to and is probably a solution in search of a problem. He stated access to this development is at 55 th Street and Hedge Lane Terrace. He stated a roundabout is going to be built there, but that is really not part of KDOT’s ultimate project and understands was not funded by KDOT or even needed by them.

He sta ted that area will not be closed during the duration of KDOT’s project.



DAVID WATERS stated he thinks the statement really puts it simpliest, in that once the City finishes that roundabout, rotary, or whatever they want to call it, this development will have the same access, or better access than it does right now. He stated to tie this to a larger KDOT project is a bit of a Red Herring.

DAVID WATERS stated secondly, they believe the City should renew its commitment to the residents. He stated they understand the importance of the businesses in this area, but commitments were also made to the residents.

He stated this road was intended to be truly temporary; that was a promise that was made some 13 years ago and he believes the staff report reflects tha t the tempering nature of the road is still the resident’s primary concern. He noticed it as listed as #1, on some of the items they wanted to see.

DAVID WATERS stated of course, the initial recommendation is that this be put off until later after deciding what will happen with the pass-through and will submit to the Council if that is their position this evening, they just wait and see what happens, as it will be hard to take this road away and make it a temporary structure, once it is given a quasi permanent status, because a period of two years is quite a long time and would make it difficult to undo this.

DAVID WATERS stated that while they feel this pass through is not a necessary part of this project, Mr. Higgins is certainly willing to say if this Council does agree to allow this to pass through, that they do it with certain situations. One, that it be temporary during the duration only of the roundabout which will help to project some of those businesses, but then that it be closed when that roundabout is reopened and those businesses have the access and better access than they already have.

DAVID WATERS stated those are stipulations his client would be willing to agree to and they certainly appreciate their consideration. He stated he does not want to rehash all the arguments and discussions, but believes they agree with a lot of the comments that have been expressed this evening.

Councilmember Kuhn stated Mr. Waters’ suggestion was that it will make it harder if they do not set it today as a temporary, because they have made it a quasi permanent road by leaving it open. She stated with the knowledge that it is on the books as having to come back before the Council at the completion date of that, what does Mr.

Waters’ (or Mr. Higgins) think is going to be different in the community, as far as feedback. What will be different that the neighbors think, the Council, or with the money.

Councilmember Kuhn asked if the Council this evening would assume that it be closed afterwards, why would the

Council not assume so two years from now.

DAVID WATERS stated he does not have a crystal ball, but would submit to the Council if they go ahead and create a road like this that becomes used by everybody, they are going to have a much harder time convincing residents and businesses that now is the time to take something away. He stated he does not have any facts or figures at his disposal, but knows during the healthcare arguments Federally, the line always was to look how popular it would be once they give it away, because it is always much harder to take something away than to grant something. He frankly feels the position will be the same with this road, in that they are going to have a harder time closing this road. He does not have any facts or figures to back that up and is simply an impression.

Councilmember Kuhn stated she is not disagreeing with Mr. Waters, but believes he is actually making her point, which is if for two years the community uses that road and finds it to be a position, why shouldn ’t the Council at that time listen to their answer as well.

DAVID WATERS replied he thinks this is somewhat of a backdoor way of getting in a road for the favor they are wanting it, when commitments were made to these people beforehand that this was not going to be a road. He stated this is somewhat coming through back channels on getting something that really was not what the neighbors wanted initially and was not promised to be initially. He thinks that is one their primary concerns.

City Manager Gonzales stated she would clarify that the reason the staff even bought this before the Council to begin with, was because during the K-7 meetings they heard from a lot of residents who wanted it open. She stated it was not an intention on staff or something pushed by KDOT or that any councilmembers asked they do.

She stated at the neighborhood meetings, a lot of the residents talked to staff and said it would really help them out.

DAVID WATERS stated he thinks it is his client’s position that while the roundabout is being closed and constructed on, he is fine with this being done on a temporary nature to help that out, but would like to see once that access is restored that the City make a commitment that it go back to closing that road.



City Manager Gonzales stated she did not want any confusion that they were trying to sneak this in temporarily because they really wanted a permanent road there, because that story was done until they started having these meetings and heard from the constituents of the councilmembers that they would like to see it open.

Councilmember Morris asked if the client is saying he is willing to have it open.

DAVID WATERS clarified he is willing to have it open for the 18 month period for the duration of the roundabout.

Councilmember Morris countered by asking if that meant the two months or the 18 months.

DAVID WATERS replied the two months. He stated it is his understanding that the roundabout is the short term project and the much larger KDOT project is much longer. He stated the roundabout is the only area that is really affecting the access to this area; to this commercial development. He stated it is his client’s position that he would be okay with a temporary road during the duration that the roundabout is being constructed, which he understands could be anywhere from 2-4 months, at least those are the numbers he is being told.

TOM SARAGUSA stated he lives right under 57 th Street on the corner. He pointed out his residence on the overhead. He stated two years ago, the City came out to his back property line and tore up his backyard up putting in the storm sewers. He stated last year the phone company and the gas company came along his side street on 57 th Street and tore up his side street which still has not been completely sodded. He stated a City employee came out today to see what final sodding and grass has to be done.

TOM SARAGUSA stated the State is now going to close off Meadowview down on 55 th Street and put in a cul-desac, because they did not want them making a left turn coming in off 55 th Street. He stated all they had to do was go down to CVS there on Johnson Drive and see about 150 white poles out in the middle of Johnson Drive to keep them from making a left turn.

TOM SARAGUSA stated there were so many other options. He stated if they had not done this, they would not be here this evening talking about all of this. He stated he stands here this evening before the Council thinking about from 2,000 to 3,000 vehicles coming by this house each day. He stated he is willing to accept that, because if he lived up in those residential areas he would want that opened up too for safety purposes, ambulances and fire trucks. He stated Nebraska Furniture Mart delivers a new range from time to time and he is willing to accept that, but can not see why they can not close it off once the roundabout is in place.

TOM SARAGUSA stated it is going to be advantageous for people to go to 55 th Street, the way they have always done to get into the shopping center. He asked what is in the shopping center right now and answered

Blockbuster, a liquor store, a vet and a Chinese food place. He stated the people who live in that area that use those businesses have always had to get to it off 55 th Street and there is no problem with that.

TOM SARAGUSA stated the City is going to have to borrow the money or rob Peter to pay Paul to do this project anyway. He stated the funds are there to close it back up. He asked who is to say that at the end of the project and the roundabout is in four months, they close this street back off as it was, or the driveway as he calls it, at the end of the project they could then talk to the businesses and ask if they need it opened at that time. He stated they could keep it closed after the roundabout is in and just do it the opposite way; if they think the businesses still want that open after the project is done.

TOM SARAGUSA stated he is willing, as a resident, to work with the City on this. He can see a need for it being open temporarily and appreciates them taking the time to let the residents come and talk about it. He still thinks as one resident, that there is really no need to have it open for the entire 18 months to two years, - or whatever.

He asked the Council to please think about closing it back up after the 55 th Street roundabout is in place where they could get it opened back up.

IMY SMITH stated she lives on the corner of 57 th Street and Meadowsweet Lane. She stated she would like to say two things. First of all, she would like this road open temporarily, but because she is a daycare provider. She stated there are 12 licensed daycare providers registered in homes west of 55 th Street. She stated nine of them are west of Hedge Lane and 57 th Street. She stated they take care of 126 children and are all trained in CPR and

First Aid. ‘

IMY SMITH stated luckily, she has been a provider for 30 years and has never had to use this, but if she ever had to, she would want to know she could and would want to know that Jeff Hudson’s crew would be there to help her


Journal Page 13936 when she calls and is panicking because she has a child that is not breathing or has fell and hit his head, that she could get help immediately and it would not take another 3-4 minutes down 47 th Street to come back to her.

IMY SMITH stated if she is not doing the CPR correctly, she would want immediate help. She stated someone made the comment about how response time is the same in any other part of the City, but with so many children there when she needs someone and calls 911, she wants someone there 30 seconds after that call and is very passionate about her job and the welfare of her children. She stated there are other people in her neighborhood who have health issues.

IMY SMITH thinks if they could get the emergency care vehicles in there to help them, that temporary thing would be awesome for them. It would give her the insurance if she needed help, she would have it. She stated she would also like to make the comment that she is probably that one of the oldest residents in Monticello Meadows.

She stated when they moved there 30 years ago, they were in Monticello Township and lived in the town of

DeSoto. She stated they were the 20 th house in that area with nothing around then, except for cornfields and cows. She stated they have endured a lot of changes out there.

IMY SMITH stated the biggest mistake on development, is when the thinks they developed Heartland Hills because they gave them no access to get out, except to come through Monticello Meadows. She stated even when this project is done and they want to go to 7 Highway, they will still have to come past her house.

IMY SMITH stated they probably have 200 to 300 cars go in front of her house. She stated when this temporary road opens they will have several thousand to go east/west on her side street. She stated she does have a nice fence and will take care of her kids, will not go in the street, or near the streets – that is not a concern to her. She stated she is concerned that because of where her kitchen window is located, she sees maybe possibilities of a little fender bender out her window, probably once ever six weeks to two months, because people on 57 th Street sort of just slow down, stop, and continue on. The people in Heartland Hills go too fast in her opinion, to be quite honest.

IMY SMITH continued that she thinks that is going to be the same problem when they have several thousand people come through her neighborhood, so she would not want the road opened permanently, because it makes for too much traffic in there. She stated she is willing to flow with everyone, because gosh darn, they sure have over the years, but would like the road to just be temporary and thinks it is up to the Council if they want to do it with the roundabout or with the full turn.

IMY SMITH stated she is in favor of this, as long as they close it again. She stated she just does not want it open and will support their businesses. She stated she has went around to 55 th Street all the time that shopping center has been there. She stated they have went to 55 th Street to get everywhere all these years, so they are willing to go around. She stated if the City decides to close it at the earlier time, that is great with her. She stated if they decide to keep it open, that is also great with her, but asked they please not keep it open permanently because in her neighborhood, as was said earlier, they do not have curbs or sidewalks.

IMY SMITH stated they have joggers and bicycle riders in their neighborhood. She stated they have families pushing strollers and people walking dogs, just like normal neighborhoods, but with that much traffic in there, it does not make them safe. She would like to go back to a normal neighborhood again, as much as possible. She stated they will still be the hub development for all the other housing to come through them. She stated that is just the play the plot was and they are not changing that and that is just fine.

IMY SMITH stated that is all she wanted to say about that issue. She asked the Council to please open it up for her kids. She thanked the Council for their time.

Councilmember Vaught stated Mrs. Smith talked about a lot of strollers, but they do not have any sidewalks.

IMY SMITH answered no. She stated everyone has to walk on the street. She stated the joggers are on the street, the little kids get in t here too and there is no place to walk off the street.

IMY SMITH stated on her land, they can step off and walk down a little ditch in the grass to get away from a car.

She stated with some housing, they really would walk into a ditch, because there is no place for the stroller to go.

She stated if there is a car parked on some of the roads, especially on Meadowsweet where she lives, going north, it becomes very narrow. She stated those are roads that were built very way back then and their roads are very narrow. She stated the mailboxes stick out and even when she travels up and down the road, if they meet a


Journal Page 13935 car they have to pull over into someone’s driveway to let another car pass and go on. She stated that will be a problem for the traffic that comes in there.

IMY SMITH stated Meadow Heights is a little wider, so they will probably find all the people who come in for that transition will decide to come down Meadow Heights more often than Meadowsweet Lane and they will just learn that. She stated they do not have any place for the kids, strollers, or dogs to go. She stated the dogs go into the grass to do their business, but the patron pushing or pulling dog has a different story.

MIKE HARVILL, 5685 Meadowview Drive, stated he lives right across the street from Mr. Saragusa right at the end of the road. He stated he has no problem with it being open temporarily and thinks it is a great idea. He stated he has had to call for the ambulance for heart problems before, so he wants to make sure they can get to him. He stated he does have a problem with it being open longer than what the roundabout is taking.

MIKE HARVILL stated he goes to all the businesses that are there now. As a matter of fact, the only businesses that he does not currently support are the liquor store and nail salon. He stated he banks there, uses the gas station, and all the other businesses. He stated he misses the grocery store a lot.

MIKE HARVILL stated he is really afraid about being able to get out of his driveway. He stated if they are going to have 2,000 to 3,000 cars going through there every day, he is not sure what he is going to do. He stated he is right at the corner and with that hill there, he is seriously thinking if this were to ever become permanent, he will have to build a driveway over to Meadowview, just so he could come over to the stop sign to ever get out.

MIKE HARVILL stated they could put stop signs there and make it a three way stop temporarily and that might help with the traffic that comes flying over the hill today. He stated that even today, the cars do not know it is a dead-end street now and strangers come down 57 th Street heading east doing 35-40 mph on that little street and have to slam on their brakes because they see the dead-end and have to turn around, come back up, and try to find their way out of the neighborhood.

MIKE HARVILL stated with 2,000 to 3,000 cars a day, they all saw the condition of that road. He asked the

Council if they think it is going to last two years with that many cars. He stated it is cracking and falling apart today. He stated Meadowsweet, which is the street they would be coming up, is the worst street there is. He stated of t he people who come out of Heartland Hills today come down to ‘her’ house, turn the corner, and go down Meadowview to get out of Meadowview because it is a better street. He stated they are going to put a culde-sac in at Meadowview, so no one is going to be using that anymore and will all have to use Meadowsweet.

MIKE HARVILL stated with that much traffic on Meadowview, they are just asking for accidents because people are going to run into each other and get run over. He stated as a temporary situation, fine, but he can not imagine that being like that for two years or even longer because it scares him half to death. He stated he has been there for 22 years, so he has not been there quite as long as Ms. Smith, but he really enjoys his neighborhood as it is.

MIKE HARVILL stated he did buy a house on a cul-de-sac and he paid more for it because it was a cul-de-sac.

He stated Ralph Miller himself, and is not sure how many people knew Ralph or now him yet today, made a point of saying that was never going to go through. He stated whether he believes Ralph or not is beside the point, but that is what he was told. He stated at the time he moved in, he knew there was going to be commercial development there because it was on his plat, but there was not going to be access to it from 57 th Street.

HAROLD JACKSON stated he lives right on the corner of 57 th Street and Meadowstreet Lane. He stated he thinks the temporary road is great, but does not think a permanent road is a good idea. He stated for the whole duration it is not right. He asked how many of them have actually been out to see the area.

Councilmember Kuhn stated she lives across the street from it. She stated she walks her dog over there.

HAROLD JACKSON stated at 57 th Street and Meadowsweet Lane they need a four way stop. He stated the drag strip coming out of Heartland Hills has got to stop because it is ridiculous. He stated if someone tries to back out of their driveway, they have to look to blocks away to see if they will make it because they will honk and pass as he or someone else is trying to back out of their driveway. He stated if they are going to go from 400 to 500 cars a day to 2,000 or 3,000 cars, they better park a wrecker out there because someone is going to wreck big time and go over the hill to the first street to the west and put a four way stop there.



HAROLD JACKSON stated if they are going to get all the traffic, which will probably happen with this temporary road, then they need to slow them down a little. He stated if they are going to come through, then slow them down – that is all they are asking.

JOHN WATERS, Oak West Community Center, stated he represents himself and his father. He stated they are currently the owners and developers of Oak Valley. He stated if they look at the original plat, they will see where the curb lines, line up. He stated it was the City’s interest in the very beginning to make sure that that street could go through. He stated they would also have put the Taco Bell out on Hedge Lane Terrace.

JOHN WATERS stated the property values are also important to them as well. He stated they got stuck with a second tier pad site because of that road that they had to accommodate for in the future. He stated as far as what Councilmember Kuhn is talking about, he understands her not wanting to commit to a two year commitment in regards to leaving that road open, but on the other hand, they can not commit to doing that, in his opinion, because right now what City Engineer Wesselschmidt is telling them is that they are going to see 2,000 to 3,000 a day.

JOHN WATERS stated KDOT has told him that is going to be the state-of-the-art intersection in the State of

Kansas. He stated there is no one who is going to go down 57 th Street when Johnson Drive and K-7 is done, because it will be a back road. He stated there may be 2,000 to 3,000 cars on it while construction is happening, but once that intersection is done no one is going to go down that street.

JOHN WATERS stated if the Council decided they did not want to make the commitment to leave it open, he is losing square footage on his building pad, so he is not benefiting by making that commitment as well and would just as soon like to see it tore out too, but everyone in that whole western subdivision is going to love that street when it is all over with.

TOM MCCLOUD stated he was at the meeting 13 years ago when all of this happened and remembers it very well. He stated it was a decision that was thought about and fairly made that that street should not go through.

He stated things have changed in their end of the world and the residents know that because he has been out there almost 20 years.

TOM MCCLOUD stated unfortunately they live in an area that is really going to be impact a lot by all this construction and they knew that was going to happen and decided to stay in there rather than move or anything before. He stated he feels bad for those businesses who are sitting there, as they are stuck for a couple of years and he thinks they are all just going to have to hunker down for a while and make it through that time.

TOM MCCLOUD stated he can understand about having the street open. He stated when he saw what the Fire

Department had, as far as access and so forth, he could see the decision would probably be made, if for nothing else, on a basis of public safety to keep that street open, at least for a temporary period of time. He stated he thinks it is important to understand that, again, all these businesses are basically going to go back to the same kind of access or improvement as Mr. Vaught indicated with that new cul-de-sac. it will be better shortly after that cul-de-sac is opened.

TOM MCCLOUD stated his concern is having this thing tied up for a couple of years and not having any certainty, as there are people in the neighborhood, especially as real estate maybe starts to move and there may be some of them who might want to sell their homes. He stated it will be instantly the question of what that street it going to be in the next couple of years. Is that thing going to be open or closed.

TOM MCCLOUD stated he thinks the benefit and the uncertainty, the balance of those two, he thinks it is important for people to have some closure on this this evening and to say it is going to be temporary. He stated if any of them on that street or in the neighborhood wanted to sell their homes, they would be able to say the City has said that street is going to close up; it is open right now and there is a ton of traffic on it, but after a few months the street is going to be closed. They need that assurance and he thinks it would only be fair to those who live in the area and have their investments of their homes in the area to understand what the future is going to bring.

TOM MCCLOUD stated another thing he is concerned about and spoke with Senior Project Engineer Lindstrom at the meeting at the middle school, is about the quality of the street and particularly what is going to happen to it when they get all this extra traffic on it. He thinks, at least from his own benefit and is sure the neighbors would feel the same way, is that they would like to have some assurance from the City and from the staff that during the time the street is being used so heavily, it will be taken care of and also some measures be made to come back


Journal Page 13933 and repair it to at least as good of condition as it in now after this heavy influx of traffic goes over it, because if there is going to be 3,000 cars or 1,500 round trips, or however that is measured, the street is not built for that kind of traffic.

TOM MCCLOUD stated there are several things about the street right now that is not good. He stated the street is too narrow and there are no curbs, gutters, or sidewalks. He stated they understand that, because it was that way when they moved out there and it is not like anything went away. He stated all these changes and all this extra traffic and all the things that is going to be happening to it – they would at least like to get it back to how it was after the dust settles from all the traffic.

TOM MCCLOUD stated his main thing would be to give all the neighbors out in that part of the City some assurance. He stated they have kind of living under a little bit of a cloud for the last few years not knowing if

KDOT was going to go through with this project and now they are sitting there asking what is going to happen to the street. He stated he if decided to sell his house to get transferred, there is no telling what someone is going to say about a piece of property on that street right now and will question if it is going to be a through street eventually or not.

TOM MCCLOUD stated he does not live right down on the cul-de-sac, but lives right up where he is going to see the brunt of that traffic, because there is no other place for it to go except right in front of his home. He stated he appreciates the opportunity to say these things and knows a good decision will be made, but thinks all these things need to be carefully considered, just like if it was in front of anyon e on the Council’s home. He thanked the

Council for their time.

Mayor Meyers stated he knows Mr. McCloud wants some assurance or help from the City with the added traffic if this road does get approved on a temporary basis, whether it is a short period or for the duration of the project.

He stated he can only tell Mr. McCloud that at this time, the City does not even have an overlay program because of budget constraints and have not had one for two years. He stated it is something that they have to get corrected and changed.

Mayor Meyers stated the City is in that kind of a financial situation right now and it is very difficult to give those types of guarantees, especially when it comes to overlay on project. He stated he can assure them that the City is always cognizant and always putting their best foot forward to make sure infrastructure is safe and kept up best as possible.

Mayor Meyers stated they are getting into a time where they are, as a Council, going to be getting into the budget process and it is extremely difficult at this time.

Mayor Meyers stated the one thing he wants to get his arms around and that the Council can have a full understand of, is that he is hearing a lot of the residents saying they agree to a temporary opening, but when he came into the meeting this evening and thinks they have had great discussion, as he is learning more about this project than exactly the way he thought things would happen, but because of the discussion from the Council and because of the discussion from the residents, he came into the meeting thinking that when they were talking a temporary road opening, that they were talking about the duration of the project and thought that was where the residents already had that understanding and agreement and is something he is not hearing this evening.

Mayor Meyers stated when they are talking about a $50,000 project for a possible 2 ½ month period, he wants to be clear where that money is actually coming from.

City Engineer Wesselschmidt replied it would be part of the bonded cost of that project. He stated as they outlined in the memo, when they take this particular area and add the Silverheel project, they are seeing significant cost decreases, so if they want to look at both of these projects in this area at a combined cost, they are seeing significant savings. He stated on a debt standpoint, it would be within the amount they are showing with anticipated debt load.

City Engineer Wesselschmidt stated to answer Mayor Meyers’ question, it would be part of the City’s share of the

Johnson Drive and K-7 project.

City Manager Gonzales stated that is $4,500 a year for 15 years.



Councilmember Kuhn stated listening this evening, she wonders if maybe there is not a middle ground on this.

She stated she would also like to say that this has been a really good Council meeting where they have heard so many conversations. She stated she can not tell them all how much she appreciates the discussion on this.

Councilmember Kuhn stated the discussion they have had gave her a chance to think about what is being said on both sides and she wonders if a middle ground could not be here. She stated she keeps hearing the number

2,000 to 3,000 cars a day and that is true, but not going to change during the time in which the roundabout is closed. She stated that is going to be there whether it is 2 ½ months or not. She stated once the roundabout is opened, they will stop seeing a lot of those cars going by there because they will be able to access the businesses as well, so they should be able to split that down quite a bit. She does not think it is fair to assume they would have 2,000 to 3,000 cars every day for 18 months.

Councilmember Morris asked if when this roundabout gets opened, it will be back to where it was, or better.

Councilmember Kuhn responded part of it. She thinks what everyone is missing here is the way it is there, if they can picture in their head K-7 and it is almost cross to cross with Johnson Drive and 55 th Street. She stated just because the roundabout is opening does not mean 55 th Street is opening up. She stated of the people who would normally have come down K-7 and been able to turn on, are not necessarily done at the time the roundabout is.

Councilmember Kuhn stated while those neighbors in the back, that will address some of them being able to get into the businesses, it does not address being able to get to K-7, which they also need to deal with, with the residents and not just the businesses, who then, if that is open, will be able to use Clear Creek through to Hedge

Lane and come through to get into their neighborhoods, rather than having to drive all the way past for the duration of this to 47 th Street and drive all the way down to K-7 and come all the way back around to their neighborhoods.

Councilmember Kuhn stated when they held the neighborhood meetings, there are people here that she believes have very valid points, but the ones here the most now are immediately in that section because most of what everybody heard at that meeting was , ‘Yes, we need to open it temporarily’ and temporarily meant the duration of the project.

Councilmember Kuhn stated the feedback they received from that was really positive. She stated as shown in the notes, pretty much they overwhelmingly heard from folks that that needs to be open, which is why they started talking about it.

Councilmember Kuhn stated that makes her thinks for the middle ground on this, somewhat, is the duration of the project includes that Clear Creek Bridge. She asked if that is correct – the November 11 th is the Clear Creek

Bridge as well.

Senior Project Engineer Lindstrom replied that is correct.

Councilmember Kuhn stated that is far less important for the access points to the businesses and to the communities on that side, because K-7 will then have access at 55 th Street again before that Clear Creek Bridge is in. She thinks that is her bigger worry, because opening that up for 2 ½ months is important, but it is not worth

$50,000 of the City’s money to do 2 ½ months and is worth $50,000 of the City’s money to take care of that as an access point while 55 th Street is not open.

Councilmember Kuhn stated her thought is, while she does not want to hamstring a future Council, that is the least of her concerns on this and a policy thought of hers, but is not what she is voting about. She stated she can live with that if they all want to set a date of opening – great by her.

Councilmember Kuhn stated she thinks it is really important that they keep it open during the time of 55 th Street being closed, so maybe rather than setting a definitive date because they do not know exactly when that is going to be, that is what they use as their closing time; at the time in which the opening of 55 th Street happens, so people can use that to get into their neighborhoods right now.

Councilmember Kuhn stated right now, K-7, once they close that, not only do the folks down here need to use it to get into the businesses, which is a primary concern of hers, but folks who are coming to and from work on K-7, ambulances, fire trucks, and the convenience for those folks, they can not turn onto 55 th Street just because they can come into the businesses, so this way they would have two access points from K-7 to get in to be able to get


Journal Page 13931 back there; either coming from 47 th onto old K-7 to 55 th Street where it is open in the back, or from Clear Creek into Hedge Lane through there and into the neighborhoods.

Councilmember Kuhn stated most of the people who are going to use that, are going to be the people who live in those neighborhoods, which are the people who came to the City and said they need to have access to that, so open it up during this whole process. She stated she would be very willing to say at the time in which 55 th Street and the roundabout, the entire area, is finished and done and open, then they can close this back to normal.

Councilmember Kuhn stated with that being said, she does not believe there will be an election or any changes until then, but for the public’s knowledge, just because a current City Council does something, that is a policy decision and not a law. She stated a future Council or people sitting on a Council can come back and change their minds and vote something differently, so they can only speak to the promises they make tonight for what they are doing. She stated they can not speak to what a future Council will do, so while they will say that is what is, that is something that at a later date, two or five or ten years from now, somebody could come back to the

Council again and request it go through and that Council would consider it and this Council has no ability to control their vote.

Mayor Meyers asked City Engineer Wesselschmidt for the difference in timeframe for what Councilmember Kuhn just suggested, compared to th e 2 ½ month versus the duration of the project.

Councilmember Vaught asked Councilmember Kuhn for clarification and if she is saying instead of waiting until the complete project is done, she is saying when the roundabout is finished and they can get off onto 55 th Street going west off of K-7.

Councilmember Kuhn stated that is correct, but the way the phases go, she does not want to give a definitive date because as they learned with this project from the beginning, they thought Phase I was going to get done and then Phase II, and then KDOT in order to save money combined them together and did some rearranging. She stated they do not know exactly when that is going to be, but at the point in time in which the intersection roundabout at K-7 and 55 th Street, not the one internally on 55 th Street, but the big huge K-7 they can now use to turn onto 55 th Street, when that is completed, which will be before the Clear Creek Bridge is her understanding.

City Engineer Wesselschmidt stated Councilmember Kuhn is referring to having the 57 th Street connection in place through the completion of Phase IV, Phase IV being the ‘yellow’ phase. That means the only thing that would be left on the project is Phase V, which is the Clear Creek overpass. He stated it shows Phase IV would take place during the month of August 2011 and Phase V begins in September of 2011.

Councilmember Kuhn stated until Phase IV takes place, there is no access onto 55 th Street and there will be no other access back there, except for 47 th Street if they do not have that go through.

City Engineer Wesselschmidt stated that is correct. He stated while Phase IV is under construction, all the traffic has been shifted over to the new K-7 Highway and that traffic can not get over to 55 th Street. He stated it would get over to 55 th Street either through Clear Creek or 47th Street.

Councilmember Kuhn stated that is what the neighbors have talked about, in that they could get to the places they have always got to from one inside, but they can not get to their house from where they have always got to and the Police Department and Fire Department or anyone else can not get to their house from where they always have, because 55 th Street is closed on the other side of it. She stated this would give two access points and means if someone is coming from one direction it might be easier to get in or the other.

Councilmember Kuhn stated to be fair, while she absolutely thinks they need to take care of the folks on this and their street is not built for those kinds of numbers, yes Old K-7 and 47 th Street are built to more of a collector standard, but they are also almost tripling their traffic if they do not allow some off from that and there are houses and driveways there that back off of it and a whole lot of people living there too. She thinks that is a reasonable middle ground to get people through.

Councilmember Morris asked Councilmember Kuhn if she is proposing not a specific date, but when that project is . . . and that is what is considered temporary.

Councilmember Kuhn answered yes.



Councilmember Morris asked for the primary cost of this temporary little piece between the shopping center and the . . . is it the asphalt or relocation.

City Engineer Wesselschmidt replied it is the grading and the asphalt.

Councilmember Morris asked if there is some ordinance that requires the City to put asphalt down.

City Engineer Wesselschmidt replied they received an email today asking if it was going to be temporary in nature, could it be gravel. He stated the staff does not recommend gravel even for a 2 ½ month period. He stated if they end up with just a 2 ½ month period, they can look at an asphalt thickness less than eight (8) inches, but would not recommend gravel.

TOM SARAGUSA asked Councilmember Kuhn what is the difference if they wait that long for people to go west on 55 th Street off K-7 than them being able to turn onto the temporary road now and come through Hedge Lane and get to the roundabout to go west on K-7.

Councilmember Kuhn replied they could not.

TOM SARAGUSA countered by stating, sure they could.

Councilmember Kuhn stated Mr. Saragusa is talking about sending all the people through the middle of the shopping center to get there to come back through.

TOM SARAGUSA stated they are doing it now.

Councilmember Kuhn stated 55 th Street is not closed right now, so that is her point. She stated when 55 th Street closes, everybody will have to either go down to 47 th Street to come through, or they can go through, but they do not want to send that kind of traffic through the middle of the shopping center where people are walking across to get to their cars where people have their dogs going to the vet.

TOM SARAGUSA stated they will be going to Hedge Lane Road and not through the shopping center.

Councilmember Kuhn asked Mr. Saragusa if he is saying to send people around through the front part of it in front of the bank.

TOM SARAGUSA answered yes, because that is Hedge Lane Road. He stated when Hedge Lane Road is connected from 55 th Street down to the temporary bridge site, they would be able to get off of 7 Highway.

Councilmember Kuhn stated she is saying to get all the way back around.

TOM SARAGUSA stated that would be to get to 55 th Street.

Councilmember Kuhn stated they are still leaving people going all the way back around, rather than letting them go straight back into their neighborhoods, still for safety vehicles as well. She thinks as an overall, it makes sense to . . .

TOM SARAGUSA interjected by asking if he was making sense.

Councilmember Kuhn stated Mr. Saragusa is making sense, but she is saying that she thinks it makes more sense and she has heard from more neighbors that they wanted it open during the point in time in which it is closed. She stated she and Mr. Saragusa have talked and while she knows there is a positive to that, they have to look, not just to the benefit to those immediate houses, but to the entire area that is going to be served by this.

She stated it is better and has been asked for by hundreds of people that they have heard from to have that stay open.

Councilmember Kuhn stated the harm that is left for having that open during that period of time is less than the other. She stated she can also tell Mr. Saragusa that as a Councilmember, she does not think it makes sense to spend $50,000 and thinks they are going to have a hard time having Councilmembers agree to spend $50,000 for

2 ½ months, when it would be beneficial for the entire time.



TOM SARAGUSA stated he just does not see what the difference is of them getting off K-7 when they can come

Hedge Lane, as to wait to where the bridge is in and the big cul-de-sac underneath the bridge, if that is what

Councilmember Kuhn is talking about.

Councilmember Kuhn stated she is talking about being able to get back onto 55 th Street,

MIKE HARVILL stated the only difference is whether they come up Hedge Lane Terrace and turn onto 57 th Street or go on up to the roundabout and turn left. He stated that is the only difference, because even if 55 th Street is closed at the interchange, people are still going to be able to come up Hedge Lane Road, go to the new roundabout and go west, so why would they still need 57 th Street.

Councilmember Kuhn stated again, she thinks it adds another access point for the neighborhoods that are right straight back there that do not have to drive all the way back through and come around.

MIKE HARVILL stated that is exactly what they have now. He stated people come up Hedge Lane, only now they do not have the roundabout and it will be even better than what they have now. He stated it does not make sense to him. He stated if they are going to do this, it is two blocks and that is exactly what they do now. He stated they go down and go down to Johnson Drive or 55 th Street, because that is the collector and come around and now it is even going to be better with the roundabout.

Councilmember Kuhn stated again, the answer is not that it is perfect or the best for anything, but the answer is there are a lot of people outside of just that road that get affected and t he more access points they can give, the easier they can make it to access their businesses, and the smoother they can make it for ambulances or police and the more they can get out of their $50,000, the better overall she thinks it is.

Councilmember Kuhn stated sometimes it is not about exactly what she think is the perfect or exactly what she can’t possibly stand, but what the middle ground is that meets the best possible for everybody, as much as they can. She stated the number one thing she was hearing from everyone was not that they did not want it open, but that they wanted some guarantee that at the end of something, it would be closed.

Councilmember Kuhn stated what she is hearing from the business owners was they want access from those neighborhoods, because their sales across K-7 are going to be decimated while it is closed, so the easier it is to get to them, the more they want it, so they would like it open for the rest of their natural lives, but absolutely for the duration of every part of the project.

MIKE HARVILL stated if that is the case, they would want them to go on up Hedge Lane, so they would go past them rather than stopping at the south end and cutting through.

Councilmember Kuhn stated they also want the other back end of it where they think it is easier, because the easier it is to get to some place the more . . . trust her, she has talked to them and has worked with every one of those businesses.

MIKE HARVILL stated he uses every one of those businesses. He stated he is the #2 customer of the vet – no doubt about it. He stated he is doing his best to get as many animals as he can take care of.

Councilmember Kuhn stated it is not to be argumentative at all – that is not the point. She stated it is trying to find a way to do it. She stated when they have the community meetings that most of the people went to, what they were not told – they were not given the option of saying they are looking at opening this temporarily for two months, but were basically told they ware looking at opening this temporarily for the duration of the project and that was what as presented.

Councilmember Kuhn stated most folks were very good with that and wanted to see that happen. She stated if they make a decision tonight and all of a sudden are shifting it too, she does feel somewhat that that is unfair to the hundreds of other people who came to a meeting. She thinks they would have had people show up had they understood there might be a difference, but nothing that was said at any meeting ever gave any indication to them that they would have a problem. In fact, at every community meeting they held, first the original K-7 one where people asked for feedback, the feedback that was overwhelmingly given was to open up 47 th Street and there was no real aversion to opening it up, as long as it closed back down.



Councilmember Kuhn stated at the second meeting, everyone came in overwhelmingly and said open it up temporarily and what was presented was opening it up for the duration. She asked if she is wrong that the duration of the project was what was presented at that meeting.

MIKE HARVILL replied Councilmember Kuhn is wrong. He stated he talked to 23 different residents that night specifically, going around and asking them, and everyone said it is great to have it open as long as they can not get through down there where the new roundabout is. He stated nobody cared about the rest of the project, because all they wanted to do was to be able to get over there.

Councilmember Kuhn stated when they talked to folks, what was presented of the project, not what they cared about but what was presented, was the expectation that it would be a temporary opening through the project.

She stated she is saying they should dial it back a little bit and if they do not have any reason to benefit from it when the bridge comes in, dial it back, meet the expectations of most folks, get something done forward, get their cost effectiveness from the money, and go forward.

MIKE HARVILL stated he agrees that is a lot of money to spend for a short period of time.

Mayor Meyers stated he will just speak from experience and does not get to vote on this item unless it were a tie where he could break the tie, but his experience is that he would never want to speak for the Councilmembers because he does not know where they stand, but he is not sure as Mayor, if he is hearing correctly from the residents, he is hearing all residents say they would like a temporary road. He thinks he is hearing all residents say, that are present this evening, that they would like to have some assurance that the road is temporary and not permanent.

Mayor Meyers stated what he is not sure about is that he, himself, has difficulty getting his arms around spending the kind of money they are talking about spending for a very short period of time, versus something that he thinks could be extended and would again, how a better value for the City spending money. He stated the real difficulty comes down to his belief, which is his #1 concern, safety. He stated he also believes that safety is enhanced, whether it is a 2 ½ month period or the longer extended period of time. He thinks safety and response time is enhanced either way.

Mayor Meyers stated he is unsure where the rest of the Council sits as far as making that kind of decision, but wants to do what is right and best for all, for the most and he is hearing loud and clear from the people here this evening that they do not want it to be permanent.

MIKE HARVILL stated he would say it is the definition of temporary.

Mayor Meyers stated that is exactly correct, but his belief, as he stated earlier, was that temporary was meaning that it was going to be for the duration of the project.

MIKE HARVILL stated personally just knowing there is a deadline or date, is certainly better than having it at a

‘well, discuss it in two years kind of thing’.

Councilmember Distler stated to Councilmember Sawyer’s point, that is one thing she wanted to point out, in that

$4,500 a year times (X) 15 years is $67,500 and they keep saying the cost is $50,000. He stated the cost is actually $67,500.

Councilmember Distler stated as far as safety is concerned, she is struggling with the fact that while it is increasing response time to this area, it is not more than other areas of the City. She stated from what she is hearing, it is going to increase the danger during whether it is 2 ½ months, 18 months, or two (2) years – whatever. She stated it is going to increase the danger to the walkers, the joggers, the bikes, and the dogs with the increase in traffic in that time. She is still trying to weigh that while it is an increase in response time to this particular area, it is not more than other areas to the City.

Councilmember Distler stated personally, as Ms. Smith said, she would like to have instant response to every house in the City and that would be her dream. She just wanted to point out Councilmember Sawyer’s point, to give it a number and the safety part that they would still have the better response time, but they are decreasing the safety of the residents that are on the street.



Councilmember Vaught stated it is a large amount of money and there are two ways to look at it. He stated whether they do it for two months or for ten months, it is still going to cost the City $4,500 per year. He stated it is kind of like buying a $10,000 car and whether it lasts for a year or 10 years, it still costs $10,000 to buy it.

Councilmember Vaught stated he knows on the east side, of the rotary that is proposed, access is staying open into those shops when they do it. He knows that was a big issue when they talked about the businesses on the east side is what is going to happen when they do that rotary. He stated they are keeping access into those shops open during the construction of that rotary.

City Engineer Wesselschmidt replied the roundabout at Roberts Road at Johnson Drive is going to be built under traffic in order to maintain traffic to those shops at the roundabout. He stated in this particular case, this is a complete reconstruction grade change and he thinks they are raising the level.

Councilmember Vaught stated there is no way to have access around that. He stated when they start talking about spending $50,000 and do this temporary or not, those are not a way to get traffic somehow around the rotary there.

City Engineer Wesselschmidt stated he would say at this location it is not. He stated this is a KDOT project and

Roberts roundabout would be a City project. What helps them out at Roberts is one very small grade change and secondly, there is a five lane road to begin with at Johnson Drive where they are building a turnaround in. In this case, they are starting with a two lane road grade change having to widen out, so it would significantly lengthen the time to do the project if it was possible.

City Engineer Wesselschmidt stated without looking at the plans closer he would not be able to say if it even could be done.

Councilmember Sawyer stated they dropped Shawnee Mission Parkway from roughly Long to Pflumm from 4 ½ to 5 feet and barely managed to live through that and did not like any of it.

Councilmember Morris stated he is trying to determine the definition of ‘is’. He stated he is not comfortable voting on this because the decision package says it is temporary and is hearing 18 months to two years at the neighborhood meeting and is hearing from the neighbors this evening that they talked about two months. He stated he was not at those meetings and does not know the truth on that and what they are talking about as temporary here.

Councilmember Morris stated if they are talking about two months, he is not willing to spend $4,500 a month on it.

He asked why they can not use gravel and why is it so unsafe. He stated there have been many construction sites with a significant amount of traffic that have been graveled because it has a slowing process, or they grind up asphalt all the time and put that down which has less dust and reclaim, but also has a slowing factor.

Councilmember Morris stated if this is only going to take two months, he does not see why they could not do that, but right now, he does not know what ‘temporary’ is and does not know what was presented to the neighborhood and is hearing two differen t stories. He stated he heard tonight that ‘temporary’ meant two months and supposedly was presented as 18 months or longer.

Councilmember Morris stated he needs specifics.

Mayor Meyers stated he would caution Councilmember Morris that as a councilmember, he does not know if he will ever receive definite understandings and are always going to hear two sides to a story. He stated it then becomes a decision of the Council to make a motion, have a second, and voting on it. He stated it falls where it falls. He does not think Councilmember Morris will ever be totally satisfied with the answer he is looking for with what was intended, what was said, what was heard, and what was perceived.

Mayor Meyers stated this is going to come down to the Council making a decision and then vote.

Councilmember Morris asked if there was a written document or anything presented to the neighborhood that specifically said the intent.

Senior Project Engineer Lindstrom presented a general brochure to the Council that was mailed out to the 400+ residents. He stated they did not talk about the duration or put a specific date. He stated to clarify they did say


Journal Page 13926 until ‘end of construction’. He stated they did not specifically say the end of the roundabout or the end of the construction at 55 th Street and specifically said until ‘the end of the project’.

Senior Project Engineer Lindstrom stated he received a lot of input about how they wanted to shorten that timeframe, but that was still presented at the meeting – ‘at the end of the project’.

Councilmember Sandifer stated he feels spending $67,500 in 15 years is not something he can justify for 2 ½ months. He stated he could probably go along with the point of doing that until the end of Phase IV for the convenience of the neighborhoods and people. He also believes of the people who purchased houses in this area, whether it be County or whoever represented them at that time and it was represented as a cul-de-sac, he would like to support that to where it would be closed again at the end of Phase IV.

Councilmember Kuhn, seconded by Councilmember Sandifer, moved to approve the temporary connection to 57 th

Street with the following conditions: a) The area would be signed for no truck traffic; b) Speed enforcement would be increased along 57 th Street through signing and police enforcement; c) 57 th Street would not be signed as a detour route; and d) One the K-7 and 55 th Street and Johnson Drive portion of Phase IV is completed, the temporary connection shall be closed and returned back to its original form. The motion tied 3-3, with

Councilmembers Kuhn, Vaught, and Sandifer voting aye and Councilmembers Morris, Sawyer, and Distler voting nay.

Mayor Meyers stated his belief on this project was what was stated on this item that, he thinks, the intention was for an opening to be done until the completion of the project. He thinks there is some compromise here and thinks the #1item most concerning to the residents is that it not be a permanent opening and he thinks that is definitely the case in this motion. He believes safety will be enhanced. He understands some of the statements made where there have been other situations in the City that have been as long periods of time if the road was not open, but thinks the majority of the City, or a large portion of the City, the times are excellent and he wants those to be the best.

Mayor Meyers stated it will only take that one emergency. He thinks he has always understood from the Fire

Department and the Police Department that minutes make a big, a huge, difference. He stated that tends to make him side on voting for the motion.


Councilmember Kuhn, seconded by Councilmember Sandifer, moved to approve the temporary connection to 57 th

Street with the following conditions: a) The area would be signed for no truck traffic; b) Speed enforcement would be increased along 57 th Street through signing and police enforcement; c) 57 th Street would not be signed as a detour route; and d) One the K-7 and 55 th Street and Johnson Drive portion of Phase IV is completed, the temporary connection shall be closed and returned back to its original form. The motion carried 4-3, with Mayor

Meyers having voted in favor of the motion along with Councilmembers Kuhn, Vaught, and Sandifer voting aye and Councilmembers Morris, Sawyer, and Distler voting nay.

13. CONSIDER A RESOLUTION SETTING A PUBLIC HEARING FOR JULY 12, 2010 DECLARING 4795 FRISBIE

ROAD A DANGEROUS AND UNSAFE STRUCTURE.

Mayor Meyers stated that on April 2, 2010, Chief Codes Administrator Thompson conducted an inspection of the

Lindsay Auction Building at 4795 Frisbie Road. Chapter 15.28 of the Shawnee Municipal Code prescribes steps for the abatement of dangerous and unsafe structures, which first requires the Chief Codes Administrator to file a report with the Governing Body that includes the findings of the preliminary investigation, and the basis for the determination that the structure is dangerous, unsafe, or unfit for human habitation.

Councilmember Sawyer asked for the amount of days.

Chief Codes Administrator Thompson replied he is not sure of the exact number of days and would be happy to figure that out. He has already posted the building DO NOT OCCUPY, has given notice to the owner and talked to him about it.

Councilmember Sawyer stated he understands that, but does not understand if it is truly unsafe, as it looks in every picture he has seen, why wait 90 days.



Chief Codes Administrator Thompson stated he believes there are a couple of extenuating circumstances. He stated first of all, the State statute sets that timeframe.

Councilmember Sawyer stated that is basically the answer he was looking for.

Chief Codes Administrator Thompson presented some photographs. He stated one side shows the roof rafters still intact at the top of the wall and a section of the roof blown off. He presented the inside of the building where daylight comes through. The columns are twisted and there is a broken beam. There are multiple columns on the floor and an unsafe structure, in his opinion.

Councilmember Sandifer asked Chief Codes Administrator Thompson if he has talked to Mr. Lindsay.

Chief Codes Administrator Thompson answered yes, on multiple occasions.

Councilmember Sandifer asked for Mr. Lindsay ’s intention of the building.

Chief Codes Administrator Thompson replied Mr. Lindsay is not sure of his intention at this time. He has not been given any information from his insurance company as of last Friday. His insurance company has sent out representatives who have evaluated the building and he is not sure what to do at this point.

Chief Codes Administrator Thompson stated there are a couple other issues. One being, he is building this in a regulatory floodplain. If the building is damaged more than 50% of the value of the building, he may have to meet current regulations as far as elevated it, but that may make it not feasible to do it. He is unsure how much it will cost to repair the building.

Councilmember Sandifer stated that is where the 90 days would come in, to give Chief Codes Administrator

Thompson the information he needs.

Chief Codes Administrator Thompson believes that is another extenuating circumstance and gives a reasonable amount of time.

Councilmember Morris stated he has heard a few different reasons and asked Chief Codes Administrator

Thompson if it is because of the floodplain and insurance.

Chief Codes Administrator Thompson replied Mr. Lindsay is just not sure if he wants to rebuild it or not and is a source of livelihood. He stated he is still in the auction business and is setting up alternate locations for auctions.

He thinks Mr. Lindsay may be able to give plenty of reasons why he has not figured up what to do. It is a big blow. He may try and sell it, but is unsure what he wants to do at this point.

Chief Codes Administrator Thompson stated all the staff is asking this evening is to set a date for a hearing and at that time the owner can come in and talk about his plans and why he has not got it fixed, if it is not fixed by that time.

Councilmember Kuhn, seconded by Councilmember Vaught, moved to adopt a resolution setting a public hearing for July 12, 2010 declaring 4795 Frisbie Road a dangerous and unsafe structure. The motion carried 6-0. Having been adopted, Resolution 1607 was assigned.

COUNCIL ITEMS

14. ELECTION OF 2010-2011 COUNCIL PRESIDENT.

Mayor Meyers stated that annually the Governing Body elects a new Council President from the City Council to serve in the absence or disability of the Mayor

C ouncilmember Kuhn stated she has greatly enjoyed serving in the Council President’s role for the past two years and would nominate Councilmember Sandifer to take over for the 2010/2011 year.

Councilmember Kuhn, seconded by Councilmember Vaught, moved to elect Councilmember Sandifer as

2010/2011 Council President. The motion carried 6-0.

BUSINESS FROM THE FLOOR


There was no business from the floor.

STAFF ITEMS


15. CONSIDER AGREEMENT WITH JOHNSON COUNTY TRANSIT (JCT) FOR CITYRIDE.

Mayor Meyers stated that CityRide began operating in February of 2007. The shuttle service was originally designed for seniors but is now available to the general public. The attached agreement is for the fourth year.

Councilmember Sawyer stated he would move to approve this. He stated a lady in Ward II brought this to his attention because he did not even know it existed. He stated with that person’s help and many other listed here, it started out from its infancy and continues to grow every year. He feels it is a valuable service in place for the seniors in Shawnee, as well as those with disabilities.

Councilmember Morris stated it is $1.00 a ride and is not covering its cost. He asked if there was any consideration that a $.50 cent raise would be okay with the elderly, because he would like to see the City come closer to the costs.

Assistant City Manager Charlesworth stated Councilmember Sawyer is correct and part of the operation of

CityRide they try to keep the fares consistent between other programs in the County. She stated the EazyRide program in the northeast part of the County is $1.00 per trip, so the Johnson County Transportation Department wants to keep the fares consistent.

Assistant City Manager Charlesworth stated Chuck Ferguson is present this evening who is the Deputy

Transportation Director for Johnson County Transit, but the Council has been pushing the staff to keep the fares consistent with other similar type services in other parts of the County.

Councilmember Sawyer, seconded by Councilmember Kuhn, moved to authorize the Mayor to sign and accept the agreement with Johnson County Transit (JCT) for CityRide.

Councilmember Kuhn stated her understanding is based on the budget amount in 2010, there is a difference of

$1,117.00 that is currently being made up through private donations to offset that difference.

Assistant City Manager Charlesworth stated that is correct. She stated she would have to commend the task force who goes out and solicits the contributions for this program and have done an excellent job in making up the difference between what the City funds with CMAC funding, General Fund, and through donations.

Councilmember Kuhn stated she can empathize with how difficult it is to get sponsorships during this time.

Councilmember Morris asked to hear from the County.

CHUCK FERGUSON stated there is a lot that goes into answering a question such as Councilmember Morris’.

He stated public transportation is much like other public services in that it is an investment. He stated a fare, or a point of purchase type of fare, usually does not cover all the costs. He stated it is a tax supported service, so typically fares are less. He stated it does not break even or make a profit and is a tax supported business.

CHUCK FERGUSON stated if transit could make a profit, it would be a business instead of a government. He stated that is the large answer to the question.

CHUCK FERGUSON stated as far as increasing a specific fare for a specific program, Assistant City Manager

Charlesworth was correct in that they try to maintain a level of fairness across all their programs. He stated they operate six different local link-type services, that various communities and cities participate in and try to maintain that same fare so one community does not ask why another community charges something different. He stated they do not make it a rule as their decision, because there groups, as mentioned earlier by Assistant City

Manager Charlesworth, who are set up in each of these communities who go out and support and work these services. He stated it is their decision.

CHUCK FERGUSON stated they very much promote a level service between all the local link services.

Councilmember Morris asked if there has been any discussion of raising the fare across the board down the road.



CHUCK FERGUSON replied they raised it last year. He stated a lot of the services were $1.00 a day, because it was particularly targeted to the elderly and disabled residents. He stated they went to a $1.00 a ride which is really $1.00 in the a.m. and $1.00 in the p.m., because they do not want somebody who takes it to the doctor or to

CVS and then to the bank and do not want them to have to pay $6.00 a day to run around. He stated typically it is

$1.00 on and a $1.00 back.

CHUCK FERGUSON stated they have not discussed a fare increase in 2010 and have not begun discussing

2011 yet. They just had a fare increase in their regular transit service a year ago, so that is always a possibility.

Councilmember Kuhn noted an example, Mill Valley, which is the high school in Ward III. One real added benefit which is an extra to this, is that they have Mill Valley high school students who volunteer their time to help on the bus. She stated while that would seem like a benefit not only to the people they are helping, it is also an opportunity to increase that long going stuff because a lot of those folks use those volunteer hours to meet their

National Honor Society requirements or their community group requirements – things that will help them gain scholarships, get into better colleges, educate their work force, so it is the big circle picture that sometimes she thinks they do not, as a Governing Body, always thinks about those bigger picture streams, but Mill Valley has been very helpful.

CHUCK FERGUSON stated he would add that is an invaluable service with Mill Valley and they wish all the other high schools were doing similar services, but this is one of the high points; one of the selling points of the

Shawnee CityRide Program.

Councilmember Sawyer stated he thinks ridership has continued to grow every year.

Assistant City Manager Charlesworth stated they tweaked the routes last year and changed the days of operation and the ridership went up about 24%.

Councilmember Sawyer stated there is certainly a need for CityRide in this city.


MISCELLANEOUS ITEMS

Councilmember Sawyer, seconded by Councilmember Kuhn, moved to authorize the Mayor to sign and accept the agreement with Johnson County Transit (JCT) for CityRide. The motion carried 6-0.

16. RATIFY SEMI-MONTHLY CLAIMS FOR APRIL 26, 2010, IN THE AMOUNT OF $1,855,302.00.

Councilmember Sandifer, seconded by Councilmember Kuhn, moved to ratify semi-monthly claims for April 26,

2010 in the amount of $1,855,302.00. The motion carried 6-0.

17. MISCELLANEOUS COUNCIL ITEMS. a) National Volunteer Day.

Councilmember Morris noted that this past Saturday was National Volunteer Day, as well as Rebuilding

Together Shawnee. Even though it rained, they had a phenomenal turnout. He stated they worked on six homes, one got rained out, and had 200 volunteers sign up.

Councilmember Morris thanked Councilmember Sawyer and Councilmember Sandifer for helping on the projects and the Mayor for coming out to launch the project. He thanked the public, all the volunteers, and said it totally amazes him how that project has grown and how Shawnee, as a community, has embraced it over the years.

Mayor Meyers thanked Councilmember Morris. He stated he can only say from his experience with being involved on Saturday, that there were outstanding groups, volunteers, organization, and work. He stated it is much needed and appreciated not only by those who are helped, but is sure the neighbors and others in connection with this project. b) Beauty and the Best – May 8, 2010.



Councilmember Sawyer stated May 8, 2010 is Beauty and the Best, the Shawnee Downtown

Partnership’s annual clean-up day. He stated they always have a large group of volunteers. He stated for anyone who did not get to volunteer last weekend, they can come out on May 8 th and help the cause.

ADJOURNMENT

Councilmember Sandifer, seconded by Councilmember Vaught, moved to adjourn. The motion carried 6-0, and the meeting adjourned at 8:35 p.m.

Minutes prepared by: Cindy Terrell, Recording Secretary

APPROVED BY:

__________________________________________

Stephen Powell, City Clerk

CC04262010 - City of Shawnee

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