Hello. I’m Sally Hamburg from INSOURCE and I’m here today with Dr. Teresa Grossi, who’s
the director of the Center on Community Living and Careers at the Indiana Institute on Disability
and Community at Indiana University. We’re going to be talking today about the transition IEP.
There was a podcast done earlier that really focused on the actual planning for the transition of
students from high school to adult life and this one is going to focus primarily on the transition
IEP.
SALLY HAMBURG:
Teresa thanks so much for your willingness to join us to for this second podcast on the topic of
transition and we appreciate your sharing your expertise on these issues.
DR. TERESA GROSSI:
I am so delighted to be here again, thank you.
SALLY HAMBURG:
Ah, Teresa, how are IEP’s different for high school students from what they were before?
DR. TERESA GROSSI:
Um, I’m going to expand beyond just high school. What is required by Indiana state law is for
students at the age of 14 or 9th grade, whichever comes first, must have a transition IEP in place,
so that’s just that little reminder that we do have students who are turning 14 that are in like 8th
grade, we have actually quite a number of them, but at that turn of that 14, by the time they turn
14, then must have the transition IEP in place. And the difference really is most of it remains the
same but the big huge piece that is different is that it begins to look at the future and what is
going to happen afterwards and so during this time families will be asked, well students I should
say and students will be asked you know, how does, what does life look like after high school
and they’re going to ask three specific questions. One is education and training. Where do they
see their child going after high school and they must have a goal around education and training
whether that be going on to college, vocational training. It could be on the job training, it could
be a two-year college, it could be a four-year college. And in employment, it’s going to be
where do they see them working and maybe it’s there going to leave high school and go straight
into employment or they may have to go the college route. Regardless, they must have a goal
around employment and then for some students, usually for students with more substantial
disabilities, there will also be an independent living goal that’s going to be required. These are
goals that are going to happen after high school and they must be based on what the law says is
an age appropriate transition assessment. So that is where the families are going to be looking at
some things that they will be putting in the IEP around career interests inventories, they may be
doing some job checklists. They may be doing some academic kind of study skill kind of
assessments as well as other things in the area of independent living and maybe selfdetermination. So, I think the big changes so far are going to be they’re going to have some
goals that are going to be required to happen after high school and then part of that present level
of that academic and functional performance will all be based on age appropriate transition
assessments, really trying to identify who is the student, their strengths, their preferences, their
interests and needs. All of this will start guiding guiding those annual goals that families are
very familiar with but what also will be different for them where they’ll start adding some
transition services and activities and what are those services that are going to help the student
each year reach those goals that are going to happen after high school, those measurable post
secondary goals.
SALLY HAMBURG:
Well, those are certainly some significant differences. Um, now, how, how should parents and
students be involved in the IEP process?
DR. TERESA GROSSI:
Well, by law, the students must be invited to their transition IEP. So, it will be, you, every
family member needs to understand that their student ‘s going to get an invitation and that we
also highly encourage their student to go and not just attend their IEP meeting, but be an active
member there and to be able to share what they feel like they are good at, what their interests are,
where they feel their support needs are. What are some things that they’re going to want to do
after high school? I mean, their whole voice in this process is absolutely critical as well as for
that student to understand what their support needs are going to be because it will be they who
will have to communicate those support needs maybe to a future employer, maybe to a future
instructor in a college setting, as well as just having the basic understanding of their of their
needs. And of course for the family, they are so critical in being partner with the educators into
trying over the years to developing those experiences so they can get a picture of who their son
or daughter is as far as their strengths, their preferences, their interests and needs. So the more
information they can share with the team about things that are happening at home, the type of
chores they do at home, the things they like to do both at home and maybe on weekends, as well
as I think comparing how things are going at home with how things are going at school because
we sometimes see it being very much the same, sometimes a little different, and all that
information begins to develop this profile of who the student is. So, again, the ultimate goal is
when they leave school that they enter into that adult world with the information that they need.
SALLY HAMBURG:
Ok, that’s a lot of information. Now I know you’ve already addressed the specific areas, but
could you review again what are the specific areas that are considered in transition planning and
what areas that goals need to be written?
DR. TERESA GROSSI:
Um, there’s there’s a couple requirements have really changed in the last couple years and the
one is we keep keep mentioning the measurable post secondary goals. Um, those are required;
an education and training and employment goal is required for any student regardless of severity
of their disability. So every student who has an IEP must have a goal that’s going to happen
after high school in the area of education training and employment, and then if and applicable, an
independent living goal. So for students who who have more moderate to severe disabilities,
they most likely are going to need an additional support around transportation or daily living
skills or accessing community resources. So again those are students who definitely are going to
need a post goal around independent living.
SALLY HAMBURG:
Well, that’s helpful. Now how does one decide if a student should pursue a diploma or a
certificate of completion?
DR. TERESA GROSSI:
Well, that’s that’s a tough question. Um, it is a definitely, there’s a number of factors that need
to be considered and I highly recommend this to be a team decision and to make sure that all the
information is there. My rule of thumb is that you always, always, always err on the side of
diploma, but some of the information that needs to be looked as __ you know, how are they
scoring on for right now the ISTEP scores? And it soon will be the end of course assessments.
So, how are they scoring and what is the difference because if they’re difference is so great, um,
is there that opportunity that they are going to be able to make enough gains to actually pass
there. And so families need to really understand what that means because from just that diploma
perspective and if I spend all my time in remediation, um trying to pass the ISTEP or the end of
course assessments, I may not be able to take some of the other courses that are going to be very
important, career type of courses or some work/study courses that would help for future
employability skills. The other piece that families that um that is new that is families have an
option of opting out of the core 40 diploma and what families have to understand are what are
those requirements? They still have a __ high standards and they still have to meet a number of
academic requirements, but they also have to choose a career sequence and so it’s going to be
very important that the family really sits down with the teacher and the guidance counselors
understand those requirements. In addition, knowing that are state, 4-year state institutions,
colleges and universities here in Indiana required and for admission you must have a core 40. If
you get the general diploma and they opt out for that general diploma and they meet those
requirements that gets you entry into your 2-year colleges like the IVY Tech Community College
in Vincennes. Now you could also transfer eventually to the 4-year but you have to understand
those admission requirements and making sure that you’re meeting all the course requirements.
And so then again, if they’re not meeting any of those, your other option would be to get a
certificate of completion and one of the big dilemmas that both educators and families have is
what will the certificate get me? And we do know, we’re working closely with the Workforce
Development offices that there are a number of jobs that students are getting with certificates but
we also know that students want to do a career and get advance in their careers and jobs that that
diploma is absolutely critical.
SALLY HAMBURG:
Well, it’s certainly a big decision and again, ah, the importance of the team working together is
critical there, isn’t it?
DR. TERESA GROSSI:
Absolutely and making sure that they understand all the information and the possibilities with
each of those options.
SALLY HAMBURG:
Now, are there other agencies that are involved at any point other than the school in this
transition IEP situation?
DR. TERESA GROSSI:
Yes, it is usually in the student’s last year um where um they truly start doing the actual
transition of services to other entities and probably the number one agencies that students and
families really do need to become familiar with is Vocational Rehabilitation. They seem they are
the only other agency that has a requirement to serve young adults and their ultimate goal is to
get individuals with disabilities into employment and that could be straight into employment or
through a two or four year college or additional training door. And so that is very important, but
there is also a number of other support entities that really do help individuals and families with a
number of services whether it be employment services, there’s a number of adult service
providers that provide employment support. There’s also residential supports. There’s mental
health services. Obviously the big funder for students with more significant disabilities is
Medicaid Waiver and we know there’s a long waiting list there, so the earlier they get that
information and get their name on that list, the better as well as social Security and looking at the
number Social Security working centers that are out there, individuals who are obtaining a check
can also work gainfully and still receive Medicaid health insurance and Social Security benefits
would be also working which our ultimate goal is for all our students.
SALLY HAMBURG:
What can parents expect at the last case conference prior to their students leaving school. Is
there something that goes on there that’s somewhat different from the other conferences?
DR. TERESA GROSSI:
Yes. There’s going to be probably two major areas that’s going to happen. One is they will be
doing, the IEP team, the case conference team will be doing an exit interview and that is very
important because they want to ensure that the student’s __ goals, those measurable post
secondary goals are still on track and what they want to do and making sure all the services are
connected and they have that information. So they’re going to be asking you a few questions and
to make sure that is all in place and one of the ways they they try to get everything in one
document for the families is what is often called the Summary of Performance. And that
Summary of Performance is a document where it summarizes the support needs of the students
as well as the outside agencies that may help the individual as they move on with contact
information. They may also talk about some accommodations that were very effective while in
high school and want to make sure that wherever they go onto two or four year college or go into
a work site that the Summary of Performance may be that nice reminder of I may need these kind
of strategies to be successful. So there will be something they they may they should get at the
very end.
SALLY HAMBURG:
All right, now, we know that there are many students who are still in school after they turn 18.
Now, if that is the case, are the parents still involved?
DR. TERESA GROSSI:
Um, I, I, I would hope that the parents are still involved and I would highly encourage the
families to be always to be involved, but there’s some things that families need to remember and
for some families, this becomes a shock for some of the students who have more or any level of
disability and I think the number one reminder is at the age of 18, the student becomes their own
legal guardian. And, so legally, the school does not even need a parent’s signature. The student,
they would sign for themselves and that is why during that age, it’s usually around that last year,
that senior year or last year where you will hear schools talk about that need to understand what
that means. For some students for families they can sign themselves into the military because
they are their own legal guardian or they could choose for a family not to come to a case
conference. That doesn’t happen too often but families need to know their students are their own
legal guardian. I think this becomes a bigger concern and sometimes a surprise for those
students who have some intellectual disabilities, cognitive disabilities or other developmental
disabilities and so families need to remember that unless they get some level of guardianship, the
student is their own legal guardian. And so, many teachers are providing guardianship
information to families to understand they could become partial guardians around financial or
around medical, but they really need to look into it and it is a very much a family decision and I
would highly encourage them to look at the ARC website that has a lot of information around
guardianship as well your own.
SALLY HAMBURG:
Ok, there’s an awful lot to consider here, isn’t there? And, as you mentioned earlier in the
podcast you did previous to this one, that early planning is probably critical in this whole thing.
Do you have some final words of advice for families, Teresa, as we wind this down?
DR. TERESA GROSSI:
Um, I, I think that this is a stage for families that is very overwhelming. Um, a lot of new
information, again the IT has changed, there’s these new agencies that are coming in that they
really don’t know who they are and what they do and then of course it’s about determining how
they’re eligible because every agency has a different eligibility criteria. So, really understanding
that. Um, I think the more, the earlier and the sooner they can start getting the information and
re-reading it over and over, um, that I would highly encourage them to do that as well as don’t be
afraid to ask questions and to ask the same questions to a number of individuals to make sure
you’re getting the accurate advice and information because sometimes local districts will do
things a little differently or local community providers and so um, trying to really understand that
and knowing that there are resources out there and people that will help out along the way. That
they don’t have to do this alone. Um, there are resources like ___ INSOURCE. There are a
number of state agencies that will also be very willing and helpful to make sure they are getting
the accurate information and they’re always welcome to call here at the Indiana Institute on
Disability Community and ask those same type of questions.
SALLY HAMBURG:
Teresa, would you mind giving your website again?
DR. TERESA GROSSI:
I, I would be happy to. It is iidc.Indiana.edu/cclc or they could even call at 812-855-6508.
SALLY HAMBURG:
Thank you. Well, thank you so much, Teresa. You have provided an awful log of valuable
information and a tremendous amount of food for thought. Um, your expertise is most valuable
and we appreciate it tremendously. So thank you so much.
DR. TERESA GROSSI:
It has been a pleasure being here. Thank you.
Thank you for listening to the INSOURCE podcast. The views expressed on this podcast are the
views of the person being interviewed and not necessarily the views of INSOURCE.