Strengthening Partnerships: Fostering Statewide Collaboration Part 2: Strengthening
Partnerships between SILCs and DSUs presented by Liz Pazdral and Megan Juring on
September 27, 2012
>> TIM: Okay, thanks very much. Thank you, everybody, I'm Tim Fuchs with the
National Council on independent living and I'm going to welcome you all back to the
second piece of SILC-NET's strengthening partnerships dialogue; it's going to focus on
the relationship with the DSU. I'll just quickly remind you all, the teleconference, were
the webinar is being presented by SILC-NET, it is part of the training assistance project.
It is operated through a partnership among ILRU, NCIL and April. Support for the
project is provided by RSA at the U.S. Department of Education. So, again, we're
recording today's call so we can archive it on the website. We will break several times
during the presentation to take your questions.
If you remember, for those of you that are on the webinar, you can ask your questions in
the public chat, that's the TextBox under the emoticons and do remember if you type
your question, they won't display until the Q&A break, but we are seeing them. If you
are on the phone you can just hit seven, and we'll help you ask your question live. Or
we'll remind you of those instructions each time we break for questions.
Do make sure that you have the PowerPoint open. I resent the confirmation this morning.
We made a small change to the PowerPoint presentation. So do make sure to open the
PowerPoint from today.
If you don't have that confirmation email or the materials for any reason, you can email
me. I'm at Tim at NCIL.org. And I'll send you that information right away. I've got my
email open right here if you are on the PowerPoint, I remind you for the evaluation form.
Please take a minute after the call for the evaluation, we really want to know was
thought.
So that's the end of my announcements, I'll get started. I wanted to introduce our
speakers, of course, we have Liz back with us but we have Megan with us from the
California DSU.
So as a reminder, Liz is the Executive Director of the California SILC and previously,
not only worked at the DSU but has been a center director and center staff. So really
serving in all the roles that we've been discussing on the calls.
Megan is the Deputy Director for independent living and external affairs at the
department of rehab in California. And previously, well including that, sorry, Megan has
spent 26 years working on disability and employment services and policy in a variety of
settings. So, a great team. I've really enjoyed planning the call with you. So let's get
started. Liz is going to begin today. So, Liz, I'll turn it over to you and go to Slide two.
LIZ: Thank you very much, Tim. So we have some learning objectives that we hope
will be takeaways for you from this seminar.
We hope that you're going to learn the statutory requirements related to developing the
working relationships with your DSU.
We're hoping to communicate some avenues for collaborating with DSUs for planning
and developing this bill. And also give you some examples of best practices or ideas of
ways that you and the DSU can partner, or if you are the DSU, you and the SILC can
partner. Tim, next slide?
So we start with statutory requirements related to developing a working relationship with
your DSU. Most of us are pretty familiar with these. We have to jointly develop and
sign the state plan for independent living. We are supposed to monitor, review and
evaluate the implementation of the state plan. And I think both of those are pretty
herculean tasks, developing and signing the plan takes a lot of time, but then figuring out
how you're going to monitor, review and evaluate is equally complex, because a lot of
the data sources you have aren't under your control. And Megan, could you talk about
Slide Number four.
MEGAN: Sure, thank you, Liz. Slide Number four relates to developing working
relationships through the coordination with the state rehab council.
The state rehabilitation council is established under Section One 05. If the State has such
a council, or a Commission might -- might be how your state operates under Section
One 01 with -- with many parentheticals to find your citation.
If the State has such a Commission. And the councils that address the needs of specific
disability populations and issues under other Federal law. And in our case, Liz, I've really
observed the SILC working collaboratively with our state rehabilitation council. And a
major kind of example of that is that in 2011, the SILC held a joint meeting with the
state rehab council and I was invited to address that convening and help the group
collectively review the commonalities that you share as advisory bodies and identify
potential joint activities.
It's important that we not duplicate efforts. So it's good to be able to get everybody
together, but not just a leadership, in that meeting I really saw member to member kind
of pushing up their sleeves and talking about, you know, what -- what is the role of the
SRC in relation to the SILC?
And at the end of a Working Session where folks did break up into small groups, we
came back and reviewed some of the opportunities we'd have for joint activities that
would actually kind of really make a difference in shared resources as well. And one of
those kinds of a no-brainer, if you will is sharing needs assessment information, since
both the state rehab council needs to do that for our annual -- um -- rehabilitation plan,
but the spill also needs to be based on a needs assessment every three years. In addition
they identified not such a common goal, but they really said both of us share an interest
in promoting employment and employment activities and services within the
Independent Living Centers, that the State rehab council sees that the Independent
Living Centers can really bring value to our consumers and a different perspective as a
community rehabilitation provider.
So that was a shared value that came out of that day as well.
The coordination activities referenced also other programs serving other populations
under Federal law. And I've really noticed that the SILC has extended itself to meet both
with the California Commission on Aging and with the state council on developmental
disabilities. I don't know, Liz, if you want to mention a couple of specific out comes or
how you value those partnerships.
LIZ: Well, I found a partnership with the Commission on Aging particularly valuable.
You know, there's so much change going on with the administration on community
living, and the merging of some of the services and fundings for people who experience
limitations as a result of aging, and, therefore, they acquire a disability.
And people who had their disability before they qualified for Medicare, but I think that
we've had a joint hearing together, where we heard from the public about the need for
affordable, accessible housing. And then we were able to publish a White Paper from
that.
We've been able to leverage some national speakers to come and speak to both our
groups.
We worked on legislation around getting victims' assistance funds. We just -- we're in a
supporting role. The Commission on Aging has a -- has a much more -- leeway in
working on legislation than we do, but we supported them in working on getting victims
of violent crime compensation for elders and dependence adults who experience
fiduciary crimes.
So we have some good success together. We're having another meeting coming up in
December.
MEGAN: That's fabulous, and I still remember, just loving listening to Fernando Torres
Gil at one of those meetings, and you know, he's certainly an advocate for both the
disability and the aging communities.
The next slide references the Statutory requirements within the Code of Federal
Regulations. Requirements for the State rehabilitation council.
So, in addition to meeting as whole bodies together, we see, of course, that the
representative from the SILC sits on the State rehab council.
In our case right now, our representative is a past Chair of the SILC who has been
designated by the current chair to retain that seat and representation.
In addition, though, the SILC also has members who are on another bodies, including the
Chair is on our California committee for employment of people with disabilities. And
she was also recently appointed to our own Advisory Committee. So I think we're seeing
a lot of Cross-pollination that's very healthy and beneficial and provides us an
opportunity to work together in different settings. So from my perspective, from the
department of rehabilitation it's healthy to build those relationships, not just from me
sitting at the table, reporting on -- to the SILC about our active the haves in support of a
state plan, but to be able to work on policy issues in -- in other forums as well paragraph
parlG and, Liz, I think now we want to take a little bit of time to have participants reflect
on how their SILC and DSU are working together.
LIZ: Yes. That's right. So if we go to Slide six, we've got some examples of ways that
the SILC resource plans have developed use and collaborate. And these examples are
based on what is developed what is in the Act. So these are things that you should be
seeing in your own state hopefully. And if not, maybe there are things that you want to
bring to your state. I think we all know that the council and the DSU work together to
do this resource plan, but the DSU is supposed to help the council identify different
sources of funding.
In our state the Independent Living Centers receive Social Security trust fund dollars. I
know in some states the DSU gives the INE, innovation and expansion funds to the
independent living network. So the state works with you. The DSU works with you in
identifying other sources of funds. The DSU is supposed to provide staff support so that
you have the resources to operate your SILC.
And resource plan, including staff and personnel, need to be sufficient to carry out the
functions of the council. You're not supposed to be struggling all the time to get what
you need.
If we go to Slide seven, we see some more examples. The DSU and the SILC agree upon
accounting mechanisms and controls so that the SILC is responsible for its own funds.
The SILC manages its own resources. The DSU also responsibly awards and manages
subcontracted funds, but without influencing the independence of the SILC.
And that's critical. And Megan, you had some experience, something that you learned
recently -- or maybe I should get to that in Slide eight.
On Slide eight there's more discussion about autonomy. So Slide eight starts with the
council has full responsibility for the personnel t carry out the councils. I've seen states
where the staff that support the SILC are DSU staff. And I think it gets tricky, you know,
how does the council supervise and evaluate that person if they work for the DSU. So
that's an interesting area for a lot of states. The DSU or any other agency or office does
not assign duties to the council or the council staff that puts them in a position where
they might be in a position of conflict of interest.
On Slide nine we get into a lot of detail in the Act about autonomy and independence
and that's where I think I'm going to ask Megan for help with.
On Slide nine it talks about the resource plans. How you develop the resource plan. How
you develop that you have sufficient resources and they don't mean resources just like
money. They also mean staff, personnel, your building, your facilities, everything that
you need to carry out the functions of the council.
So the -- you're supposed to work with your DSU to develop the resource plan, and the
resource plan is supposed to provide what the SILC needs to do its job, with funds that
are currently available. So it's not -- you're not supposed to be developing a plan that
says, well, sometime in the future we're going to have a functioning SILC when we
receive this money from this entity.
It's supposed to be what we have right now to make this work.
And on Slide ten, it talks about -- again, about supervising and evaluating the staff and
not being assigned other duties. It looks like a duplicate. Isn't it? But Megan, you and I
were talking about your experience in watching the evolution of SRCs.
>> MEGAN: Right, thanks, Liz. I really had an eye-opening presentation last week when
I was at the national rehab leadership institute by is gentleman who was one of the
original members of the State rehab council in the District of Columbia. And he just
spoke so eloquently about the history, and how -- how difficult it was for the State rehab
councils to be kind of embraced in -- in various states across this -- the country.
That, you know, early on, administrators, you know, felt like they were doing what they
needed to do, and it was kind of seen as, you know, what's this group of people I'm
supposed to now listen to about how to administer this program.
And, you know, he described some -- some really different management of -- and
support for the designated -- I'm sorry, for the state rehab council by the State unit. And,
you know, that varied from a percent of one staff person to not even a dedicated staff
person to support the activities of the council, and ranged all the way to a designated
state unit providing funding for the council to establish itself as an independent body,
much like the state independent living councils are envisioned to be. So looking at those
statutory requirements, you know, the first bullet is that -- that the council shall supervise
and evaluate such staff and other personnel as necessary to carry out the functions.
And, you know, thinking about how the SRCs in some states were established it's very
difficult for a council to supervise staff if they're employed under state Civil Service.
Maybe more so for those of us who -- whose state is a of are part of organized labor
associations.
But I would -- I would I would suppose it's similarly difficult everywhere. Staff and
other personnel shall not be assigned duties by the designated State agency or other
agency or Office of the state that would create a conflict of interest. And that just seemed
to me to be, wow, that's kind of over the top, doesn't that say the same thing as the other
bullet. But understanding that history of the tension as these advisory groups were
established in Statute, I have a better appreciation for the necessity for these provisions
to be so specific.
And it really did kind of change my attitude about it from feeling like there is this kind
of astride dent push for autonomy to, you know, letting go of that attitude and just really
kind of saying, well, there's a reason that we're here today. And just because I wasn't
around in the '70s or the '80s to see and to understand that tension doesn't mean that
there -- it doesn't still exist in, perhaps, as strong as it was then or that that history isn't
important. And holding the line to maintain afford progress is -- is very valuable.
So I just kind of wanted to acknowledge my own attitude adjustment with regard to some
of these statements around autonomy. Not that I'm defensive as the designated state unit.
So, Liz, is that the example you wanted me to share?
> LIZ: Yeah, yeah, and then I think you were going to go on to Slide 11.
>> MEGAN: Okayics to talk about.
>> MEGAN: With the resource plan. So, Federal Regulations also state that no
conditions or requirements may be included in the SILC's resource plan that would
compromise the independence of the SILC and that the SILC is responsible for the
proper expenditure of funds and the use of resources that it receives under the resource
plan.
And I want to also acknowledge that I kind of go back and forth, so does that mean your
own internal budget for the SILC or is it the whole resource plan, which really should
address the funds that are available for the state -- designated state unit to carry out our
administrative responsibilities, as well as the funds that are available for the independent
living network across the state broadly. And in general we focused a lot of our
discussions in the resource plan just to the title 7B funds that we put out for special
projects, but there really is more to it, Liz, as you and I have been really kind of digging
into over the last several months or year even, relating to, you know, do you have the
support needed in administering the functions of the state independent living council?
And in our case, you contract with another State Department to manage the accounting
and personnel functions for you.
And so it's a little bit of a triangle where -- where in an interagency agreement with you
to supply those funds but can also sometimes act as a partner in troubleshooting the
administration of the funds you have available to administer the SILC.
And it's been a challenge over the last year with that other state entity. And they're -what's the right word, their sophistication in handling of Federal funds.
But -- so even though we're part of that equation, the Act is very clear, the regulations
are very clear, that we can't require you, as the -- as the Executive Director, or your
members, to request permission from us for out-of-state travel, or to clear
communications through our office. So we are in a very different relationship than we
might be with other grantees.
(Pause.) And if we go to the next slide, we have an opportunity to use the chat window
on your screens for the participants to type in your questions.
Or if you'd prefer to speak on the phone with your questions, you would press the
number seven on your telephone keypad to signal the operator.
And I will take a pause right now to see if we've stimulated any thoughts or observations
from our participants on this webinar.(Pause.)
> TIM: Thanks, Megan, so I'm monitoring the public chat. I'll let you know if any
questions come in. Amanda, if you could do the same on the phone, we'd appreciate it.
>> FEMALE VOICE: There are no questions at this time. (Pause.)
>> MEGAN: So, Tim, if I could just kind of come back and provide another example on
that conflict-free, I suppose you'd say, autonomy.
>> TIM: Yeah.
>> MEGAN: Even though we administer funds. There's an example in California that,
over the last couple of years, in our long-term care ombudsman community and our
long-term care ombudsman office is within the department of aging or within our
California department of aging, and there is a lot of concern that as such our state longterm care ombudsman did not the ability to, to, put forward analyses on bills
independently of the department of aging or independent of the Health and Human
Services agency.
There was concern that -- I mean, I think the community even used the word muzzled,
you know, that that he was unable to effectively advocate.
And, you know, understand that this is a time of extreme budget constraint, and there are
many proposals that did, in fact, reduce funding and specifically reduced general fund to
the ombudsman program for state mandates. So it was extremely tense, and to the degree
that the community -- I don't know if they did introduce legislation, but they certainly
talked about it, to establish the offices as separate nonprofit that would be the direct
recipient of the Federal funds, rather than it coming through our department of aging.
So it's an example of kind of a different model and how important it is to the community
to have that autonomy.
>> TIM: Great. Thanks, Megan. So, Amanda, any questions on the phone?
>> FEMALE VOICE: There are no questions at this time, but, again, as a reminder, if
you do have a question, please press the number seven your telephone keypad.
>> TIM: Okay. Well, that's -- that's fine. So let's go ahead and Slide 13. And we will have
another Q&A break before the end of the call.
>> LIZ: Okay, this is Liz, and I'm going to talk about Slide 13, and I was reflecting on
what Megan had said about, you know, the DSU can't require the SILC to ask its
permission to travel out-of-state. And yet I know that in a lot of states the DSU does
require that the SILC ask permission.
And I think it's interesting, LSA doesn't seem to do -- they don't get in the middle very
often. And so part of the strength of your relationship is -- is having your DSU
understand the provisions of the rehab act and what they really say.
The rehab act does fix financial control and responsibility with the DSU.
And to me that feels like they are the more powerful partner in -- in the partnership.
Because ultimately, they have control of the money. And they have control whether the
money get spent and how the money gets spent. So that doesn't make it a relationship
between equals. And because there is money involved, that planning for the resources is
frequently a source of challenge, but also of opportunity, because if you are really
partnered and working together to advance independent living in your state then you're
thinking of ways to grow independent living and to make it better.
And so the resource planning can be a way to do that. But I think it serves the
community best when everybody works together, when the DSU and the SILC and the
IR CNET work all work together for a common goal. You're going to be more powerful.
You're going to be more effective.
And Megan, you wanted to talk about Slide 14.
>> MEGAN: Sure, and I think I want to segue a little bit to that slide, based on your -your comments, and the discussion of power.
Yes really view myself in this power role. So it's caused me to pause and think about it.
And I'll share kind of from my perspective, the State Department ex-off f official I don't
members of the SILC don't have the voting rights on the council and that, number one, I
think contributes to the difficulty we see in getting attendance of the department reps,
other than the department of rehab.
But then even with the department of rehabilitation, I've got to say that often times
representatives don't feel or they're not afforded the sail respect enjoyed by other council
members, and whether it's because we're in this position of needing to report progress on
expenditures to you, certainly it's a symptom of difficulty we've had in -- in having
regular -- well, we're behind in getting the money out, quite honestly, several times. So
we -- so we do feel like we're in this, oh, here we are, we're going to go get beat up by
the State independent living council. So it's interesting to me, Liz, your -- your
discussion of having power and sharing power there, because I certainly feel like I'm on
the other side of the coin more often than not.
But I think it's a natural tension, that tension between policy oversight and administrative
responsibility. And if we really hold the policy development part as high as it ought to
be, then that really is where I would argue that the influence is. And I wanted to actually
share a quote from the Attorney General's Office in their description of the purpose of
our open meeting act in California. 'Cause it gave me kind of an aha about the natural
tension between the administrative entity and the policy advisory body.
And the Attorney General's Office describes: Iffy efficient see was a top priority the
legislature would create a department and then permit the department head to make
decisions. However, when the legislature creates a multi-member board, it makes a
different value judgment. It concludes that there's a higher value to having a group of
individuals with a variety of experiences, backgrounds and viewpoints come together to
develop a consensus. And consensus is developed through debate, deliberation, and give
and take.
And that just kind of highlighted. Oh, yeah, you know, we're as a designated state unit,
you know, under this construct or rubric of a department whose department head can
make decisions, and we can go forth and get the work done.
But our function within the independent living section is to work with the SILC in
getting those decisions and casting our path to -- to that policy and the funds distribution
is really only to articulate the support of those policies that are established jointly
between us. So it is a slower process, and it can feel really frustrating.
So that's my segue into principles of ego. And this is where I lovingly refer to myself as
the potential adversarial partner, because that's, I think, how -- how I'm cast later in a
future slide.
But having said that, the principles that we have offered on this side include giving your
opponent due respect. Try to understand her or his motives behind each position and
show respect for these positions.
Good chance when you do that it will be reciprocated. Informal but not superficial smalltalk and relationship building is extremely important.
And I reference that in terms of the opportunities to work together with SILC members
in other environments, so that it's change -- it changes our roles and responsibilities and
gives a real opportunity to learn about the values that we each share and may hold, and
we can learn from each other.
And then develop a plan for sequential concessions, and, Liz, that's a bullet that you and
I talked about in planning this seminar, because it's something that I don't think I've ever
planned through. And maybe it's because I don't ever want to concede. So why would I
plan for sequential concessions?
But it's a fascinating -- it's a fascinating strategy, and I hope that you can pick up on that
particular you move on to the next Slide.
> LIZ: Okay, thanks, Megan. Yeah. So, you know, Megan and I talked about how when
we've negotiated before, it's been a lot less formalized. We haven't -- neither one of us
has really gone into the conversation with a list of: This is what I want. And this is what
I think I can get, and this is what I'm willing to give up.
And yet, when you study negotiation, you find that it's recommended to think about
those things ahead of time, so that you don't -- you're not surprised or caught flat-footed,
not being able to respond to an offer from the person on the other side of the
conversation.
And I know that I've been in mediation sessions and other kinds of scenarios like that
where what we end up usually doing is, we take a break, and we go off into our separate
groups, and we talk about possible concessions. But you can actually go into the meeting
with some idea of what you want to get out and what you're willing to give up.
And if you move to Slide 15, these are other principles of negotiation that can help you
be more successful, reciprocity is a major asset, and I'm sure all of you know this, that
when you've done something for someone else, they're much more likely to want to do
something for you.
And so, I'm sure all of you try to be responsive when you can to requests from the DSU,
as a way to smooth that relationship over.
You can link issues together. So if it's difficult for you to give up something that's
important to you but that they want you to give up, maybe you can, instead, reflect back,
but I am willing to give up this other thing.
And -- and show how they relate to each other. It's not good to bluff and threaten. A lot of
times, I've met advocates who -- and my favorite is the advocate who quotes chapter and
verse of the applicable law.
And then if you actually write that down and you go back to your computer and you look
it up, it isn't accurate. It's not the right chapter and not the right verse, but it's a -- sort of
an aggressive technique, and it doesn't build a good long-term relationship, which I think
is what you're looking for. 82 you are not looking to be friends, but you're looking to be
professional colleagues who respect each other.
And in that same vei in -- the person on the other side of the conversation to be
exploited. You don't want them to feel like you're taking advantage of them or you're
doing something that's deliberately harmful to them. And again, just like in talking about
the concessions and the preparation that you do prior to going into the negotiation, you
keep track of what's most important to you and what is less important to you, so that you
can really hold the line on the things that are important to you.
If we go to the next slide, Slide 16, it talks about: How do you work with a potentially
adversarial partner. And I think one of the things that people are trained when they're in
high demand or high risk jobs, is to keep a focus on the purpose.
What is most important? What are you responsible for, and what needs to get done.
Because it's so easy when you are in a debate, and particularly, if you start feeling
flustered it's easy to get distracted by side issues, and it's important in being successful to
come away with what you need from the negotiation.
Again, respect and credibility are valuable commodities. So being respectful, and also
being truthful and reliable. Those are things that will help you in the future when you're
negotiating with your DSU or with anybody.
The hostile tactics, I've seen people in meetings who make personal attacks. I've seen
people who storm off. You know, those kinds of things are not -- they're not going to
build the relationship you want to get the success that you need to take your SILC
forward.
So you want to stay composed, and you want to use the facts, and you want to make it
not personal. It's not personal about you, and I find that's really hard, because I care so
much about the independent living network, and about the strength of independent living
in California. And so sometimes it can be hard for me to distance myself and say:
This isn't about the person questioning me. I need to keep my Eyes on the Prize. I need
to focus on advancing independent living.
And Megan, when you and I talked about this, you had said that what if the person didn't
know that they were an adversary.
>> MEGAN: Yes, thanks, Liz, and sometimes it does come out of the blue and it can be
shocking and I'll admit to having stalked off one time myself, because I was so struck by
a comment that seemed to -- to impugn my personal integrity.
And, you know, it was during a time of a lot of stress, and again, I think I -- I checked in
with you as we were having these planning calls to make sure that, yes, in fact, the value
-- or the length of our working relationship can withstand occasional bad behavior. And
we can check in with each other and just get back to work.
But really, what allows that to happen and not then foster a cycle of uncomfortable
communication is that ability to check back in.
The example of resource plan development, I think, is a good one here, especially where
you talk about the credibility -- the credibility factor.
It's really important to find a balance between establishing a policy and administering the
use of the funds. And from my perspective with the state unit it's administering funds
within a lot of complex government rules.
And the SILC and the DSU jointly developed the plan, and as you mentioned though the
DSU has the responsibility to administer those funds.
So we have an ongoing dialogue, and we -- actually we need to get back and schedule it.
We had tried to be meeting like on a quarterly basis to better articulate and reach
common understanding about our various roles and responsibilities and kind of establish
ground-rules for how we want to be working together.
And, you know, it does seem like we scheduled those meetings when there is something
that's not working, but our intent really is just to have regular check-in meetings and
those meetings include leadership from, not just you as the Executive Director, but t
from your council members and -- the staff and leadership at the department of
rehabilitation.
Because it is an ongoing dialogue about what does that look like? What is the difference
between developing a plan and holding the administration accountable to it, and not
what's the right word, like balancing the checkbook.
Since the Centers for Independent Living receive funds from the 7B for projects, you
know, personally I really feel strongly that it's the SILC's role to help identify the (what
of the policy and for the department to figure out the how and who receives the funding
that it's pretty shaky ground when the SILC starts determining how the department
should put the money out and to whom.
That tension of credibility certainly exists for the department, as we've alluded to before,
we have kind of a history of not smooth processes for getting funds out. Many times
when we do a solicitation we might not get a response. Other times when we do a
solicitation, we get responses that aren't exactly on -- on target.
And sometimes we haven't done a solicitation early enough in the year to get the funds
encumbered. And each of those things is an indication that we're a little off-track in how
we're administering those funds.
So we're in a position of trying to swing that pendulum back and to rebuild our
credibility about a good flow of administering those 7B funds.
And, you know, similarly, I think there is a risk of credibility on the side of the SILC, in
terms of members of the state council being potential recipients of the funds, and really
wanting to keep the transparencies factor to hold us both accountable.
And just to close on that, I wanted to read this fabulous policy statement for our open
meeting act. It says: The people of this State do not yield their sovereignty to the
agencies which serve them. The people, in delegating authority, do not give their public
servants the right to decide what is good for the people to know and what is not good for
them to know. The people insist on remaining informed so that they may retain control
over the instruments they have created.
And I just love that T so often we focus on the difficulty that our open meeting act rules
put upon us in terms of notifying -- noticing meetings, but it's that public seat at the
table that I'm holds all of us accountable.
You know, Liz, we often talked about the SILC holding the DS U accountable, but I
really think it's that public seat that hold us us all accountable.
And so I -- should I turn it back to you?
>> LIZ: Thank you. So the next Slide, Slide 17, we talk about -- more about working
with an adversarial partner.
And I was explaining to Megan the other day that a colleague actually helped me sort of
recognize this. By design, the design of having the two groups work together and
corroborate is part of the whole Checks and Balances that I feel like our government tries
to have in place.
And there is something inherent in that kind of relationship where you're -- if you're
watch dogging the DSU, it makes it seem like sometimes you're adversaries, but being
adversaries doesn't mean that you have to be -- that you can't get along, and you can't
work together. It doesn't mean that you are enemies.
Courtesy, professionalism, those kinds of things really serve you into the future.
And also in terms of your feelings about yourself. I mean most of us who are involved in
this kind of work have a real high standard of personal ethics, and this is an opportunity
for us to respect our own values in at the work that we do.
Megan, was there more if that you want to say about this?
>> MEGAN: No, I think you've describe id well and I really kind of took over your last
slide. So.
>> LIZ: Oh, okay, but I know the next slide, Slide 18, is yours.
>> MEGAN: (Laugh) okay. So, here, you know, I've alluded before that communication
is really the key to keep us moving forward, and early on, the description of consensus
building being a process that takes time and is not necessarily convenient, and we'd
rather just sometimes just cut to the chase.
But continuing the communication, and especially exploring ways to communicate about
things that are related to our roles, but not -- not the direct problem-solving between our
roles can help build that relationship as well. And what -- what keeps me going, I think a
previous slide, Liz, you said that it's important for the pilot to first fly the plane.
And maintaining that commitment about getting the job done is important. And in my
case, getting the job done depends upon the SILC. That we are able to work together to
reach agreement on expenditure of funds, on planning priorities, of gaining support in
the community.
And I know you spent some time on the previous tele -- video conference about, you
know, looking at our funding formula for our intrastate support of the Independent
Living Centers.
That's going to be, it has been, and will continue to be a really difficult conversation to
have.
And what I value about the role of the SILC in relationship to my job and what I need to
do to fly the plane is the value of having that public Forum that the SILC offers. That
we can have that conversation about potential change to the intrastate funding allocation
formula, and that's open to all the directors. That's open to Board Members of the -- the
Independent Living Center Board of Directors, that it occurs in a transparent fashion, and
that it can be sustainable and ongoing.
You know, we are using the SPIL committee as the regular Forum to be having these
conversations. So that it's not something we're just dipping into once every three months
or once a year at a leadership summit. But we're saying, hey, you all come. Let's
continue this conversation on a biweekly basis until we can reach consensus. And that's
not something I could do from the DSU. I mean, it would be constant crisis if I were to
call a Conference Call every two weeks that would be inclusive of the -- of all the
directors and their Board Chairs.
So this is a vehicle and a platform that is really important some in my role.
And ultimately, in reaching consensus in that way, policy is better informed. And if there
is legislation that's introduced, it's more likely to be supported and be successful.
And that's especially true if it's inclusive of input from a broader audience.
So that's -- that's what's in it for me. Liz, I don't know if you've got something you want
to share.
>> LIZ: Well, I liked, you know, when Tim asked us to do this and you and I were
talking about it, I like how you said that part of the reason you wanted to do this is
because you wanted us to build our relationship by exploring this.
And I appreciate your candor, and I think this exploration of tension lets the people -other people participating recognize that it's not all hearts and flowers, but it can be very
effective. It can be a very powerful partnership.
And I really admire the way you clarify things when you communicate. And the way you
maintain your commitment to the final goal. Like you said, flying the plane.
Our next slide, Slide Number 19, is a transition slide, because we've just been talking
about tension and adversarial conflict (laugh).
But I've talked to a lot of states where people say: We have a great relationship with our
DSU. We get along really well with our DSU, which is absolutely what you want to
have.
So what does that look like? And we have some examples.
On Slide 20, we've got some examples, and some of these are things that we do in
California. And I don't know that there's any that we don't do in California. But like we
always have people from the DSU at our SILC meeting.
The ex-officio but usually there are other staff there as well, and in fact, one of our
council members is a department of rehab employee. He's a supervisor down in southern
California. We invite the leadership from the SR C to our SILC meetings, and of course,
we have members in common.
We attend DSU meetings, hearings and Forums. Recently -- well, within the last couple
of years, director Tony sour has started something called the D OR News Hour.
And, you know, we -- we make a point of attending that either in person or by telephone.
And the DSU has made sure that all of our members are on their mailing list, so we
know about all of the public events that are coming up and are available to participate.
We attend SOC meetings and their hearings and forums. If you go to the next Slide, it
talks about other kinds of things.
And in fact, we're working on one right now. Putting out a joint letter, because 7B money
is available to ILCs who want to participate with NICL or other kinds of representation,
and so right now we're working on a letter detailing what criteria you have to meet for
that funding. We do hearings with departments for hearings like the leadership
department. Something that started when I started working here five years ago was that
D OR started giving us financial statements of what 7B funds had been encumbered,
what 7B funds had been spent, what 7B funds were remaining, what their projections
were, and that wasn't something the SILC was receiving before. But, you know, RSA
has said that all SILCs should get that from their DSU. All SILCs should get at least a
quarterly financial statement about what's going on with the 7B funds.
We have ongoing policy discussions. And you should, too, about the funding streams.
That's where the most important things that the SILC is responsible for.
And something that the DSU has really been emphasizing in this spill which I love is
trying everything back to the spill. They work with the centers, the RFPs they release,
everything ties back to the goals and objectives in the spill. So they keep it in people's
minds, and that's I think the best way to make sure that it happens. And Megan, you
wanted to talk about the next slide?
>> MEGAN: Sure thing. Thanks, Liz.
And what we're hoping now is that we would get some input from you as participants on
this webinar. If you have additional examples or if you have experience in any of these
promising practices that Liz shared already.
And -- or other examples about what works for you in developing partnerships between
the SILC and DSU. So if you would kindly share those examples or experiences, or if
we've triggered any new ideas for you that you would like to explore further, you can
crews the chat window on your screen to type in your examples or questions, or you can
press the number seven on your telephone keypad to signal the operator. (Pause.)
Tim, I think you'd be monitoring the chat room. Correct.
>> TIM: Y I'll let you know if any questions come up or, excuse me, examples.
>> MEGAN: Okay. I'd love it if someone would share some of the talking with us. It's
always wonderful to -- to be able to walk away from webinars with additional
experiences from the participants.
Liz and I talk to each other all the time. Not that we don't get value from it.
>> LIZ: (Laugh).
>> MEGAN: But it is really valuable. Sorry about that, Liz, it also would be very
valuable to hear from other participants. (Pause.)
>> TIM: Amanda, just checking, nobody in the queue on the phone.
>> FEMALE VOICE: There are no questions at this time.
>> TIM: Well, let's keep that offer open if that's okay with y'all. So if anybody wants to
offer an example once we start the Q&A break in just a minute or two, then you can
offer that then.
>> MEGAN: That sounds good. So, when we were working on this presentation, I did
some research on ways that State agencies can build relationships with community
partners.
And it was interesting, because, you know, during the Bush administration he
encouraged Federal Agent sees to reach out to Faith-based not-for-profits and
community-based organizations. And during that time, a number of Federal Agent sees
did research and published papers about strategies that the Federal Agent sees could use
to better partner with community members.
And I thought that some of those would be really good ideas.
And then after I identified them, I realized that some of them are happening. So like the
first one, where the DSU works with the SILC to simplify pathways to goal funding,
working on solicitations and application processes, and how to improve them, that's a
conversation that we have frequently at our quartering meetings and during it
Committee meetings. And we have participated in shaping some of the solicitations.
So that's something that -- that we're working on already. And I think is something we
will continue to do. 7B funds in California are used to provide technical assistance,
although we renamed that. But SILC thought it instead should be called capacity
building instead of technical assistance, is we're building the capacity of the
Independent Living Centers, but every year we have at least $100,000 set aside that
Independent Living Centers can apply for to use for capacity building within their center.
Promoting information sharing and mutual support between community organizations
and D OR. I talked about some of the things that they're doing in terms of the news
sharing hour and the mailing list. I think there are many more examples of that, and I'm
sure that that's going on in I don't are community as well. But as Megan said she and I
speak with each other frequently, and I think that continual communication is one of the
keys to main takening a successful relationship
Determining through impact studies whether and to what extent the spill projects have
their intent. I don't know that we've done this, I think the one impact study that we've
done since I've been here has been we did a Zip Code analysis where we looked at what
zup codes -- where people had received independent living services in the State of
California versus Zip Codes where no one had received -- you know, originally our plan
was to do gradients based on what percent sent had received services, but there were so
many Zip Codes in California where no one had received any independent living
services that it didn't even make sense to go deeper than that. And we -- we made a map
that showed -- you know, it colored all of the Zip Codes where no one had gotten any
independent living services based on the 704 data.
And (laugh) so that's the only impact study that we've done that I know of. But I think it
would be something that would be very helpful to have some more concrete evidence of
whether the 7B funds, the purposes that they are applied to really make a difference. I
think that's something that we're all curious about.
(Pause.) And so I'm ready to move to the next slide.
LEFT one: And we're back to questions so, again, I'll Mt. Monitor the public chat. We've
got plenty of time for questions and answers, so please don't be shy. I really hope you all
will -- will ask Liz and Megan questions, and share any examples of what's working or
not working in your state. And we really hope to hear from you. So hit seven if you're
on the telephone or use the public chat screen if you have a question or an example, and
let's go. (Pause.)
>> TIM: Okay, Liz, I want to ask, and -- and Megan, I'll come to you afterwards, you
may have a unique perspective on this as well.
But I'd like to know what advice you would offer a SILC that believes they truly have
tried to build a relationship with their DSU, but are, nonetheless, met with a brick wall,
or even worse, you know, outright hostility. (Pause.) Into any advice, Liz?
>> LIZ: Sure. I was waiting to see if Megan wanted to jump in.
So, I think -- I think one thing that I would do is that I would look around at other -- and
the rehab act talks about other boards and councils and commissions that serve a similar
purpose. And in this training we've talked about in California we have the Commission
on Aging and the state council on developmental disabilities. And there's a mental
health plan -- you know, there's a number of bodies, and so I would probably -- if I felt
like I had tried everything, and I wasn't being successful, I would go to -- look around
and analyze whether I thought that was true for my peers.
If the other advisory boards and bodies and Commission were having better relationships
than I was.
And if they were then I would ask them for some tips, for some peer mentoring, how -what did you do, or what would you say is the basis of your success? Or.
And we do that, you know, about other issues, like -- how we manage to get
appointments through the governor's office. That's something where I've commiserated
with others, people with the same jobs that I do about successful strategies and things
that you might try. We've also shared information about you know getting into the
governor's office and other kinds of things that we have in common. So that would be
something that I would recommend. And something that makes this kind of relationship
very challenging is the fact that the leadership changes so frequently.
And so, you know, I've got someone right now in Megan who I really respect and
admire, and can work with, but who knows? If Megan moves onto another job, who
knows who's going to take her place, and then I might have to build that relationship all
over again.
But the flip side of that coin is, that person that is one person or a couple of people that
are your obstacle, there's a high chance that they're going to move on in a couple years,
and you can try again. (Pause.)
>> MEGAN: Yes, Tim, this is Megan, and I think I would add a couple of things to -that Liz was sparking in my thought. I had previously worked in the oversight agency,
Health and Human Services agency as an assistant secretary. And, you know, often
times, members of the community who are -- who are frustrated with not having access
to departmental avenues or are feeling shut out from policy development or decisions
that are being made within the administration will seek out the advice from the oversight
agency.
So there is that avenue in terms of the going over somebody's head.
But I really like Liz's -- and starting point is going to your peers to kind of find out.
Check in with yourself first, you know, am I really doing everything within my power to
develop this relationship.
And then Liz's other point I think is really valid. Knowing that the politicals change
chairs often is kind of the good news and the bad news. If there really is someone who is
just impossible to work with sitting there, hopefully -- you know, chances are there will
be some turnover, but the other strategy there is seeing if the relationship can't be built
with the Civil Service staff who are not going to be turning over with every change in
office.
And some -- you know, that's the beauty of the Civil Service staff is that they keep the
motors churning despite the turnover in the politicals.
So having a go-to person who's within the administration at a lower level is also very -can be very useful.
>> TIM: Okay. Thanks. Amanda, anybody in the queue on the telephone?
>> FEMALE VOICE: There are no questions at this time.
>> TIM: Okay.
>> MEGAN: Tim, maybe I can turn the tables a little bit. Having listened to Liz and me
during our planning conversations, and then through the course of this webinar, what
would you say our -- what does our experience sound like to you in -- in relation to
other states?
>> TIM: Um, well, I will be honest. It sounds like you all have a great working
relationship.
The -- the question that I just posed is indicative of what we hear most often from the
SILCs, that, hey, you know, I'm -- I am reaching out. I'm trying to work with the DSU,
and I can't even get a relationship.
So that's frustrating to hear.
And I think that it made an impression on me during Tuesday's call to hear that a lot of
the folks at the DSU in California have had a background in independent living.
And I can tell you, that is something that a lot of SILCs would just die for.
That that's not typically the case.
And that the complaints that I hear, that instead of a partner in spill development and
administrative at the DSU, it's typically a group that -- that is trying to enforce and
monitor and oversee.
And so, that's what we hear from -- from around -- around the states.
So I think that's why we look to you all to share how you found the success, because I'm
sure that it doesn't come easily.
So it's been -- been very helpful.
And I do -- I do hope that some of our participants -- this is a smaller call, these SILC
calls are smaller. And so, please, we're asking you, if you'll -- if you'll share what's -what's not working for you, because we may be able to troubleshoot the problem during
the time that we have here together.
I'm assuming that if you signed up for this training, you probably -- was an indication
that maybe you thought there was room for improvement with your DSU. So... Oh, and
great, someone here's chimed in.
Thanks, so much, Joan. Joan says -- excuse me, while I read this and voice it.
Joan says: VR counselors are to have a master's degree, some IL staff have degrees but
it's not a requirement. Not all but some people appear to believe that employees with
degrees are in an elevated position, have more power, intelligence, or somehow better.
The obvious response is to demonstrate effectiveness. Have others found additional
ways to address the differing levels of education and the apparent feelings one what a
better higher education level seems to bring out. Is that something that you all deal with
in California and as IL always values personal experience, whereas, some other agencies,
you may find that degrees or level of education is what -- what matters most? Or is
valued most, I should say?
>> LIZ: I think -- this is Liz, and I think that's an ongoing tension for us, because a lot of
government structures and, you know, there is this built-in requirement for people to get
certain kinds of education to serve in certain roles.
And when the independent living movement started, it was anti-professionalism,
antiestablishment, in that, you know, so often it was doctors and other professionals who
told people with disabilities what they could do. And so I think it does make people who - who really EMBRACE the classic independent living philosophy uncomfortable if -- if
there are a lot of degrees, and if that's important, or if it's presented as being important.
I had a -- I had a council member for a while who had her pH -- I mean, we've had
several member council members who have advanced degrees but we had one who
required that you call her Dr. Every time you talked to had he ever, and, you know, it set
her apart from people a little bit.
One of the things that department of rehab has done that I like is, they've worked with
the, institute at San Diego University to help sponsor working employees to get their
master's degree. Either in rehabilitation counseling or in rehabilitation program
management.
And so a number of people with disabilities have been able to get master's degrees that
way, where it's financially supported and something that they can do while they're
working.
But, yeah, I was just talking with Bob hand who's the director of our Fresno Independent
Living Center. And he was talking about wanting some kind of professional
Certification for IL staff.
And we were talking about how hard that would be, because, you know, having a degree
isn't the same as really knowing what happens when the rubber hits the road. (Pause.)
>> TIM: Good. Thanks, Liz. Let's check in quickly with Amanda and see if thrar any
questions or examples on the phone.
>> FEMALE VOICE: There are no questions at this time.
>> MEGAN: Tim, this is Megan, and Joan's question, you know, raised to my mind, you
know, within the designated state unit just the -- how hard we are working and really
moving in that direction, and just had a conversation recently about the relationship
between the independent living side of the house and the employment side of the house.
And how they're kind of both tied to the -- the need for equality.
>> TIM: Uh-huh.
>> MEGAN: And self-sufficiency. And I think so much of our time is spent on that big
side of the voc rehab dollar that maybe not by virtue of the educational status, because as
Liz mentioned, we're only fairly recent in the requirement of the master's degree, and
that was, I think, by force of RSA. We had really shied away from that master's degree
requirement for our VOC rehab counselors for should I say decades.
And so now we are building that workforce, but our -- but our salaries haven't followed.
So while we have now an expectation, a requirement, that -- to be a qualified rehab
professional you must have a master's degree, the salaries are still equivalent to entry
level analysts.
>> TIM: Uh-huh.
>> MEGAN: So it's a -- a -- a strange tension.
So I -- I kind of feel the tension more between, you know, the attention of where the big
dollars go on the VR side compared to independent living, and really wanting to infuse
the independent living and the importance of independent living into that VR system.
And we have the benefit of having our directors for the most part, well, back -- for a
couple of decades now, come from the independent living movement.
Even Katherine Campisi, whose career side came from the education side was someone
who was on the Board of Directors of Independent Living Center.
So our -- you know, we -- we have the -- the blessing really of having leadership who
comes from the community. LEFT one: Good. Thanks. (Pause.)
>> TIM: Well, I suppose then that you have all done such an excellent job that there are
no questions.
>> LIZ: (Laugh).
>> TIM: I want to -- I want to go ahead to Slide 25 here and just like on Tuesday,
Megan, and Liz have been generous enough to provide their contact information. So Liz
is, of course, you already have, but here is Megan's email. And I want to thank you all
for offering that to our participants and just the same you're welcome to email me. I
frequently take questions from participants after the call and I'll pass it along to one of
our presenters or get back to you. Of course my email is just Tim at NCIL.org
So if you have any questions related to this, whether it's, you know, later today or in two
months, feel free to -- to reach out. That's what we're here for, and then I'll also remind
you that, of course, this training will be archived Eoin demand training page which is on
the website. So if you would like to refresh yourself on any of today's presentation, or
say you have a colleague on the SILC that couldn't participate today, or a new SILC
member, sometime next year that you think of this training, please do visit that site. You
can get all of our teleconferences and webinars after the fact. So please do make use of
that.
You can see the PowerPoint with the audio as it occurs, and, of course, there's a
transcript, as well to make it accessible for those that can't hear the audio.
So I'm going to go to Slide 26 and that's the evaluation form. Please do fill it out. If
you're participating with anyone else today, I'd ask that you each let us know what you
thought.
If you are not on the webinar, of course, this link to the evaluation is included in the
confirmation email that was sent to you before the call.
And that's just on Slide 27, that's just the project information.
So with that, and no further questions, we'll go ahead and wrap up. Megan, and Liz, I
want to thank you. Just an excellent presentation. It's been great working with you both.
To plan this, Liz, it's been wonderful working with you on both calls. To our audience,
thanks so much for joining. This happens to be our last SILC net, of the project year. So
we'll take a couple months to plan our next few calls, and we'll see you all again early
next year in all likelihood. So, thanks so much, everybody, have a wonderful afternoon.
Bye-bye. >> MEGAN: Thanks. >> TIM: Thanks, y'all.
******** This text is being provided in a rough draft format. Communication Access
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