Debt and Insolvency Services Stakeholder Forum
MINUTES OF MEETING
10 November 2015, 13:00 – 15:00
Atlantic Quay, Glasgow (Meeting Room James Watt A)
Present:
Richard Dennis (Chair)
Alex Reid
John Cook
David Menzies
Maureen Leslie
Frank McKillop
Ann Mills
Yvonne MacDermid
Graeme Dalgleish
Mike Norris
Pauline Allan
Alex Irvine
Michelle Lynch
Melanie Taylor
Damian Bray
Accountant in Bankruptcy (AiB)
AiB
AiB
ICAS
IPA
Association of British Credit Unions Ltd (ABCUL)
Scottish Association of Law Centres
MAS
R3
JP Morgan / Bulk creditor representative
Citizens Advice Scotland
Society of Messengers-at-Arms and Sheriff Officers
TIX / Bulk creditor representative
Debt Managers Standards Association
Fife Council / Institute of Revenues, Ratings and
Valuations
In Attendance:
Gavin Cameron (Secretary)
Marion Hughes (Observer)
Mandy McLaughlan (Observer)
Fiona Coyle (Observer)
AiB
AiB
AiB
AiB
Item 1 – Welcome, introduction, apologies and acceptance of previous minutes
and matters arising from previous minutes.
1. The Chair welcomed all members and the observers to the meeting and
invited round table introductions. Apologies were received Colin Soulsby,
Andrew Douglas and Antoinette Eaton. Ann Mills was in attendance in place
of Angus McIntosh.
2. Regarding the previous minutes, a discussion was held around financial
education and numbers of trustees recommending debtors access the
financial education modules. RD noted few were accessing the modules
where AiB wasn’t the trustee. YM noted that the budgeting section was the
most popular and encouraged the money advice community to recommend
financial education to debtors rather than them face the BRO process. RD
also said there were twice as many BROs being generated in cases where
AiB is the trustee compared to those where it is not. The minutes were then
accepted as a true record.
Item 2 – DISSF Brief (Paper: DISSF (15-16)11)
3. The Chair provided a summary of the information contained in the DISSF
brief.
4. JC gave a brief update on the statistics and said the general trend remained a
declining one, although the number of protected trust deeds was starting to
normalise after a period of decline.
5. MN asked what the general view was on the numbers and whether it was
difficulty in accessing debt relief and debt management products rather than
demand from consumers which was contributing to the decline.
6. YM said anecdotal evidence was that FCA regulation as well as the perceived
stigma of being recorded on a public register was preventing some people
from seeking statutory solutions. PA added that creditors were more inclined
to give debtors some breathing space rather than seek enforcement action.
While welcoming this approach from creditors, MN asked whether this was
helping address the problems with debt people actually had.
7. ML noted the issue of creditor forbearance was being felt in the corporate
world too, as numbers of businesses failing were also on the decline.
8. AR said some local authorities were also using informal debt payment
programmes to allow people longer to pay back owed council tax. DB said
some local authorities were taking a more holistic approach and were now
seeking a single payment from debtors who owed money to numerous council
departments and were distributing internally.
Item 3 – Legislative updates
9. AR gave an update on the progress with the Bankruptcy (Scotland)
consolidation Bill and the progress made on the review of corporate
insolvency legislation as it applies in Scotland. Following consultation with
stakeholders, he said further work requires to be done to dis-entangle the
1985 Act from the 1986 Act.
10. He said the new rules would be coming into force at the same time as the new
legislation in England and Wales, which at the moment is anticipated to be
October 2016.
11. A revision of diligence against earnings had also been completed and had
been introduced to the parliament.
12. A policy review on protected trust deeds will be coming out to consultation in
the near future, which will be followed by a review of DAS and the changes
made to bankruptcy ushered in by BADA(S) towards the end of 2016.
13. ML asked to be kept informed on changes to corporate insolvency rules to
ensure examinations were as up-to-date as possible.
14. A further discussion was held around reviewing bankruptcy fees. RD said fees
would be reviewed in due course, although this was unlikely to take place this
year.
Item 4 – Money Advice Service Financial Capability Strategy update
15. YM gave an update on the Money Advice Service’s 10 year Financial
Capability Strategy. She indicated the specific Scottish launch of the strategy
would take place in the parliament in January. This was to accommodate the
differing priorities of financially vulnerable people in Scotland compared to
those in England and Wales, and gave the example that research indicated
council tax and multiple debts were the priorities for debtors in Scotland,
compared to student loans down south.
16. She said a strategic group including representatives from Money Advice
Scotland, Scottish Government, NHS, local authorities and the money advice
sector had been formed to encourage large employers to assist staff to seek
advice on money worries earlier.
Item 5 – Treasury consultations: Public Financial Guidance consultation /
Financial Advice Market review update
17. RD updated members on the launch of two HM Treasury consultations and
asked the group whether they were aware of them.
18. YM said a Treasury roundtable event had been held in Edinburgh, but noted
invitations were sent out at short notice and publicity had been limited.
Item 6 – AiB Key Performance Indicators and Engagement Paper: DISSF (1516)12
19. GC introduced the paper asking for feedback from the group on which
measures AiB should be measured on to evaluate whether it was delivering
quality customer service. He also asked members whether AiB was engaging
with its stakeholders enough and whether the channels it was using were
appropriate.
20. MN asked whether the missing targets for unit costs for bankruptcies meant
the Agency could be regarded as not delivering a quality service. He also
asked whether the 85 per cent customer satisfaction rating was one AiB was
happy with.
21. JC replied that the net unit costs for bankruptcies had actually reduced, while
the customer service rating was very high and said the purpose of the
customer survey exercise was to ensure AiB captured everything it needed to
and that the questions would be refined if necessary.
22. MN said it was important the correct people from creditor organisations were
approached if the customer survey exercise was to be repeated, as it was
pointless talking about individual cases. He also said a survey format possibly
wasn’t ideal.
23. RD said the KPI needed to be something AiB could measure. DM asked
whether this KPI would drive quality within the organisation and suggested net
cost would give an indication of efficiency.
24. PA said AiB telephone support should be measured as there had been
inconsistencies with the quality of support given in the past. GC confirmed this
was already part of the customer survey.
25. In terms of stakeholder communication, DM said it was important that all
communication was delivered as widely as possible, and that broadly AiB was
doing that.
Item 7 – regulatory issues
26. DM updated on various regulatory issues, including the new systems of
regulation of IPs to ensure they meet principles of transparency, which came
into force on 1 October. He also mentioned the new powers given to the
Insolvency Service over RPBs, which allows the IS to deliver financial
penalties and other sanctions, but said this wasn’t an issue for ICAS given the
robust procedures it already had in place.
27. He also updated members on corporate issues such as the pre-pack pool,
which started operating on 1 September. ML added that it is not IPs who
would be expected to use the pre-pack pool, but more it would be used by
prospective purchasers, and said it remained to be seen how effective it
would be.
28. DM said there had been changes to SIP1, which strengthened the code of
ethics IPs operated under, empowering IPs to report instances of misconduct
among fellow members. ML was very supportive of SIP1 and said it would be
interesting to see whether the requirement to blow the whistle in instances of
misconduct would lead to an increase in reporting.
29. ML also noted the dual licencing of IPs to allow them to operate across both
personal and corporate insolvency came into force earlier in the year, but that
the first licences would be unlikely to take effect until 2016 at the earliest.
30. The issue of companies using the DAS register to contact people and
encourage them to take a debt relief product instead was discussed.
Item 8 – IAIR update
31. RD gave a brief update on the IAIR conference and said a project had been
launched to review regulators across different territories has been launched.
Item 9 – Companies House liaison update
32. JC updated the group on his recent meeting with the new chief executive of
Companies House and indicated the organisation was keen to strengthen
relationships with AiB. How to improve exchange of data was also discussed,
as were methods for ironing out inconsistencies. JC asked members to
contact him if there were any issues they wanted to see raised with
Companies House.
Item 10 – Credit Union Working Group update
33. FM discussed the activity of the Credit Union Working Group and outlined the
formation of the group last year and its ambitions to promote credit unions to
large private sector businesses and encourage saving and financial capability
in schools.
34. He said the Third Sector team at the Scottish Government was preparing a
report on the group’s activities, which is to be launched at the Scottish
Parliament on 12 February 2106.
Item 11 – Policy and Cases committee update
35. FC delivered an update on the last meeting of AiB’s Policy and Cases
committee, which was held on 27 October.
36. Topics covered at the meeting included the issue the current process for
accessing a contribution using the Common Financial Tool, in particular
surplus income when a debtor is in receipt of overtime/bonus payments. As
there were no statistics to show how many cases that were actually receiving
overtime/bonus payments, it was agreed to leave the current process as is
prior to further consideration during formal review.
37. Also discussed was a query from the money advice sector regarding
treatment of private school fees across all statutory debt solutions. The
committee discussed the issue and agreed that school fees must be looked at
case-by-case. Guidance will be drafted by AiB.
38. The committee’s view on the current requirements of a trustee who has
exceeded the six week timescale for submitting their debtor contribution
proposal was also sought. There was a consensus among stakeholders that
the six week timescale is too short, but that it should be looked into at the
policy review stage.
Item 12 – Shared Perspectives on the Outcomes of Advice conference
39. AR gave a brief outline of the recent Improvement Service event in Glasgow
which looked at national projects to improve reporting on money advice and
develop quality standards for advice. YM noted there was an appetite from the
sector to develop these standards.
Item 13 - AOB
40. There was no other business. The Chair thanked all members for attending
and closed the meeting. The date of the next meeting has still to be confirmed
but will take place in March 2016.
Gavin Cameron
Secretary
12 November 2015