TRANSCRIPT
FAMILY AND COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT COMMITTEE
Inquiry into social inclusion and Victorians with a disability
Melbourne— 31 March 2014
Members
Mrs A. Coote
Ms B. Halfpenny
Mr J. Madden
Mrs J. Powell
Ms D. Ryall
Chair: Ms D. Ryall
Deputy Chair: Ms B. Halfpenny
Staff
Executive Officer: Dr J. Bush
Research Officer: Ms V. Finn
Administrative Officer: Ms N. Tyler
Witnesses
Mr J. Clifton, manager, government relations and policy, and
Ms A. Feldman, policy and research officer, Vision Australia.
31 March 2014
Family and Community Development Committee
1
The CHAIR — Welcome and thank you for giving your time today to appear before the committee to assist
with our inquiry into social inclusion and Victorians with a disability. As outlined in the guide you would have
received from the secretariat, all evidence taken at this hearing is subject to the provisions of the Parliamentary
Committees Act 2003 and other relevant legislation, and it attracts parliamentary privilege whilst you are before
the committee. Any comments you make outside the hearing are not afford that same privilege. Hansard will
record the proceedings, and you will receive a proof copy of the transcript. You will be able to make any factual
or grammatical corrections, if required. If I could ask you to give us a 15 minute presentation, that will lead into
some questions.
Mr CLIFTON — Thank you, Chair. My name is Jacob Clifton. I am the manager, government relations and
policy, Vision Australia.
Ms FELDMAN — I am Amy Feldman. I am the policy and research officer. I did a lot of the research for
the submission.
Mr CLIFTON — If it is okay, I was going to read the opening statement. First of all, thank you for giving
us the opportunity to come here in person and also submit in writing to this inquiry. As you have probably
gathered from our written submission, social inclusion is pivotal to the work that Vision Australia does with
people who are blind or have low vision, so we think it is directly relevant to the work that Vision Australia
does, and we think it is a really worthwhile inquiry that you are undertaking.
I wanted to start by passing on our apologies for our colleague Maryanne Diamond, who was planning to
present here today. Maryanne is the general manager, advocacy and engagement, Vision Australia. Just to
update you, she has recently been elected chair of International Disability Alliance, which is quite a significant
position for a Victorian to hold. She starts that later this year, but she sends her apologies for not being here
today.
I will give a bit of background on Vision Australia, if I could, to start — I know our head office is in your
electorate, so you might be familiar with some of this — just to provide a bit of context which gives us the
evidence base from where our policy views are coming. Vision Australia estimates there are over
350 000 Australians who are blind or have low vision. We estimate 10 per cent of those are legally blind and
another 320 000-odd have low vision. In Victoria alone, which is most relevant to this inquiry, we estimate
there are approximately 90 000 people who are blind or have low vision, so it is a significant number of people.
Vision Australia services over 33 000 Australians each year, including more than 2500 children and their
families. We have 28 office locations, mainly across the eastern seaboard but also the outreach offices and
services that go into the rest of Australia. It is because of this contact that we have an extensive knowledge of
the barriers to social inclusion that are currently experienced by Victorians who are blind or have low vision.
In my brief presentation to the committee today I want to focus on six key questions that we think will help us
to best answer the questions that were provided to us by the committee and also address the terms of reference
for the inquiry. The first of those is: what is social inclusion in the eyes of Vision Australia? The organisation’s
approach to social inclusion is consistent with the United Nations understanding of the term, by which social
inclusion is defined to mean the process of ensuring equal opportunities for all, regardless of their background,
to achieve their full potential in the life they choose. This includes policies and actions that promote equal
access to public services and enable a citizen’s participation in the decision-making process at all times in their
life. Social inclusion, we think, can be measured through access to various resources, including material assets,
employment — which is a key one that I will talk about later — education, skills training, health, disability
supports, community services and personal safety.
Vision Australia supports the social inclusion of people who are blind or have low vision to be independent and
live the life that they choose. We do this by providing opportunities for education, opportunities for
employment and recreation. Again, by way of background, Vision Australia recently undertook quite a
significant strategic planning exercise — I have given you a copy of the strategic plan — and this maps out the
work that Vision Australia is going to be doing from 2014 to 2018. I thought it was interesting to draw from that
our mission statement on the front page, which I think shows how relevant this inquiry is because the new
mission statement is that Vision Australia is supporting people who are blind or have low vision to live the life
that they choose.
31 March 2014
Family and Community Development Committee
2
The next issue I want to discuss is what social inclusion means for Victorians who are blind or have low vision.
We think it means ensuring that all individuals have equal opportunities to achieve their full potential in life,
and that is the ultimate goal of an inclusive society. Victorians who are blind or have low vision experience
systematic barriers to education and barriers to employment and recreation. We think that these things are
necessary to have a full inclusion within society. Exclusion from these activities has a flow-on effect to all
aspects of an individual’s life. Without access to accessible information and specialist disability services and
support from educational facilities, Victorians who are blind or have low vision experience great difficulty in
gaining an education. Without an adequate education, many Victorians with vision loss find it very challenging
to gain and maintain employment.
Overall Vision Australia estimates that approximately 58 per cent of Australians who are blind or have low
vision lack access to substantial employment. I will look at those in employment figures in a moment. Without
employment, many Victorians with vision loss lack the economic resources to participate in regular recreational
activities and engage with the community around them, leaving them socially isolated. Overall for Victorians
who are blind or have low vision, social inclusion means building their capacity and resources, and creating
significant opportunities for economic, social and civic participation.
Vision Australia conducts research activities to build our policy views on these issues through a research team
we have that deals with our clients. In 2012 we undertook our most recent employment report, which looked at
the status of people who are blind or have low vision in employment across Australia. I just wanted to draw out
a few of those figures for the benefit of the committee. As I mentioned before, in 2012 when we last undertook
the research task, 58 per cent of respondents were unemployed, not by their choice, and that was slightly down
from the previous research that was done in 2007, where the number was 63 per cent. As you may know,
among the wider Australian population, the figure for people who at that time were unemployed not by their
choice was 14 per cent, compared to 58 per cent of people who are blind or have low vision. This means that
people who are blind or have low vision who actually want a job are four times more likely to be unemployed
compared to the general population.
One-third of the people who were employed in the survey would have liked to work more hours than they
currently were, which indicates that even for those who are employed, underemployment is an ongoing issue.
Three-quarters of the respondents with a tertiary education were currently employed, which showed to Vision
Australia the importance of the link between education and employment, which is obvious in the broader
community but particularly for people who are blind or have low vision. Forty-six per cent of respondents who
were employed earned more than $1000 a week, which again was slightly up from 2007. We think that higher
income level five years later is directly related to the fact that a higher number of people who were employed in
the blindness and low-vision community had a tertiary degree.
Two-thirds of respondents believed that a job application process they had undertaken was accessible, which
means that one-third of people found the job application process inaccessible for them. Again, that was a slight
improvement, so the trend from 2007 to 2012 in that regard was an improvement as well. Of the respondents
who found difficulties during their job application process, almost half indicated it was because of the attitude of
the employer, which was reflected in their job application process. For people who are blind or have low vision
the internet is the preferred way to search for employment: 88 per cent of respondents searched for their job via
the internet, rather than 65 per cent in 2007. Of the respondents who were employed, it was very interesting to
learn that 94 per cent of those people used adaptive technology in their current roles, which made it possible for
them to do that job.
Moving to what Vision Australia does to improve the social inclusion of blind or low-vision Victorians, it is
intrinsic to everything we do, so there is quite a long list of activities and services that Vision Australia provides
that do that. I just want to touch on a few of them. Linked back to that employment data that I provided before,
Vision Australia supports people who are blind or have low vision to find and maintain employment through
what we call our employment services. That includes career planning, it includes working in workplaces doing
workplace assessments and modifications of those workplaces to make it possible for a blind or low-vision
person to undertake that job, and on-the-job adaptive technology training — as technology improves in the
workplace or changes, we are able to provide the training to people to continue to use that technology.
Vision Australia teaches orientation and mobility, which provide people with the independence and opportunity
to travel to their employment or to travel to education. We train seeing-eye dogs; you may have seen in the
31 March 2014
Family and Community Development Committee
3
media just last week we opened a new seeing-eye dog facility in Kensington, which is going to significantly
reduce the waiting time for Victorians who are blind or have low vision to receive a seeing-eye dog. Again this
gives them the independence to participate in things like employment education. We have a client consultative
framework, which is a tiered structure across the country that feeds in the input of the clients through regional
groups and then a national group reports back to Vision Australia, so that we are directly linked with the
experience of our clients in what we do. Like I said, the list is a lot longer than that, but they are some highlights
for you of what we do to improve social inclusion.
I want to touch on the Disability Act 2006 and social inclusion, as Vision Australia sees it as a key part of the
terms of reference. One of the key principles outlined in the act was for disability services to enhance the
inclusion and participation of people in the community with a disability with the aim of achieving their
individual aspirations. Given that emphasis, one way that we think that the act has increased the social inclusion
of Victorians with a disability is by encouraging disability service providers like Vision Australia to adopt a
person-centred approach to disability care. Of course this is consistent with the NDIS, which is currently being
rolled out, and Vision Australia is very actively participating in these two trial sites in Barwon and Newcastle.
Other benefits we see of the Disability Act are that it explicitly outlined the importance of recreational and
social activities for Victorians with a disability to realise their capacity for physical, social, emotional and
intellectual development and that it established an independent Office of the Disability Services Commissioner,
which offers a free complaints resolution process in which Vision Australia has participated in the past when
there has been a complaint against one of our provided services. The measure also ensures that providers are
held accountable and that there is a quality framework established, which we see as a good thing.
The second-last issue that I wanted to look at — and this was a question asked of us — was the role of
communities, families and workplaces in improving the social inclusion of people with vision impairment.
Vision Australia thinks that social inclusion really relies on a broader public awareness of Victorians who are
blind or have low vision when moving through the built environment. This includes a stricter adherence to a
knowledge of accessible building and wayfinding standards, and a greater understanding of mobility supports
and equipment used by Victorians with vision loss. It involves wider accessibility to accessible information and
technology for Victorians who are blind or have low vision. We also think a key thing is increased employer
awareness regarding the capacity of people who are blind or have low vision and the availability of supports for
those employers, which can be provided — such as workplace modifications and adaptive technology — and
would help the employment outcome of a person who is blind or has low vision. Accessible public transport is
another key thing, as are disability services aiding individuals to achieve their personal goals, which we think
will be assisted through the rollout of the NDIS.
The final thing I thought I would conclude with is what we think is happening and needs to happen in the
future — looking forward. We think Victorians who are blind or have low vision face a number of key
challenges in the future which will directly impact on their social inclusion. The high rate of unemployment
amongst Victorians who are blind or have low vision is likely to persist into the future unless employers are
encouraged to hire employees who have vision loss or are blind. Australian Disability Enterprises, which
currently employs many people with a disability, is under threat in large part due to the decline in the
manufacturing industry. These disability enterprises often do not support the transition of people who are blind
or have low vision into other employment once they leave that disability enterprise. Another key thing is
population growth: by 2034, as you would know, the population of Melbourne is expected to increase to
8.4 million people. In order to accommodate this number of people, developments will continue to spread
further away from the city centre. This creates accessibility and transport issues for people who are blind or
have low vision and find that a challenge.
We also think that universal access principles which incorporate accessibility standards for people with a
disability should be kept front of mind when designing new housing and new infrastructure that is being built by
the government of Victoria. One example of this is that a continued and unimpeded path of travel from the
property boundary to the level entrance of an employment or education facility really provides people who are
blind or have low vision with the ability to access that facility, which is complicated otherwise.
Based on these things we think increasing the social inclusion of Victorians who are blind or have low vision
will require quite concerted action from the Victorian government, working in conjunction with local
government and the community sector. We think a key priority, as mentioned a number of times, is to address
31 March 2014
Family and Community Development Committee
4
the high rates of unemployment amongst the blind and low-vision community, which will require a greater
recognition by employers of the capability and capacity of people who are blind or have low vision. We also
think access to information is a key thing that will ensure Victorians with vision loss can be educated and find
employment.
Finally, there is the transport issue which I mentioned before: public transport is a real lifeline for people who
are blind or have low vision in regard to all the other things that are key for their social inclusion, such as
education and employment. That is one example of the public infrastructure that the Victorian government has
some responsibly for that can be made more accessible for people who are blind or have low vision and
therefore assist their social inclusion. I think I will wrap up there — right on 15 minutes — but I am obviously
happy to answer any questions you have.
The CHAIR — Very good, thank you. I might start with the questions, if that is okay. Adaptive
technologies — can you give the committee some examples?
Mr CLIFTON — I might mention a few, and then Amy can elaborate. Adaptive technologies can be things
in an employment setting that allow a person who in their job is working on email, for instance, to have a screen
reader that will read the email to them in voice. For that to happen, an organisation does not just have to
purchase a screen reader; they need to implement practices across the organisation that mean people are sending
emails or other documents in a format that can be read by that screen reader. That is one thing on a computer
screen. Another thing on a computer screen might be a magnifying program so that people with low vision have
the text significantly enlarged, enabling them to do the kind of desk jobs or office jobs that a lot of us do, but it
would be completely impossible for them to perform those tasks if those adaptive technologies were not
implemented. Did you want to speak about some others?
Ms FELDMAN — One I can think of off the top of my head is BrailleNote, which effectively works as a
laptop for people who are blind. They have a Braille display as well as a keyboard display, so it makes it easier
for them to take notes in meetings, or they can just generally work off them. I am struggling to think of more.
Those are the classic examples, I think, that Jacob has touched on there.
Mrs COOTE — Thank you both very much indeed. I have two questions. The first one is: if we look at
social inclusion, one very important element is voting. I know a couple of years ago the VEC trialled at
Kooyong a voting program where people who were vision impaired could go in by themselves and vote without
having any assistance. I do not think they went on with that process, but there is a new process. Could you
explain to us what that is?
Mr CLIFTON — Yes. The complicating factor with voting — and you are right that it is one of the key
issues we advocate on — is that there are something like eight different assisted voting methodologies that are
used across the electoral commissions of the states and the commonwealth. We are actually in the process of
advocating in relation to the review of the last federal election as to the technology they used, where they had
some telephone-based assisted voting technology available. In relation to the specific operation of the most
recent Victorian election, I would have to take that on notice. Amy might be able to elaborate specifically.
There are different practices across the nation. We generally regard the New South Wales system as best
practice, where they enable, I think, both computer and telephone-based voting from the home for people who
are blind or have low vision where they can do that anonymously, because they are given a PIN and registration
number. Vision Australia advocates for all the electoral commissions to expand access to that.
Mrs COOTE — Can we have some information on that particular system? I think that would be really
useful for our recommendations.
Mr CLIFTON — Yes. I will provide that on notice. I am sorry I do not know exactly the Victorian system.
Mrs COOTE — That would be terrific and really helpful. Thank you. The other question I have is that you
were doing some terrific work with ANZ in jobs and employment, and there was a big launch. I think one of
your directors went blind through the macular degeneration. He had been a senior executive at ANZ. There was
a great deal of work done with Vision Australia and ANZ to get people work-ready. They were working with
human resources people, and it was really a very good program that other people were looking at. Can you fill
us in on what is happening with that?
31 March 2014
Family and Community Development Committee
5
Mr CLIFTON — I am not familiar with that one.
Ms FELDMAN — I am actually not familiar with that. That must be before both of our times.
The CHAIR — You can take that on notice.
Ms FELDMAN — We can take that on notice as well.
Mrs COOTE — I know there were some teething hiccups. For example, human resources people said, ‘We
all deal with computers here. How can people with low vision understand a computer?’. They had no idea that
they were really competent on the computer. It broke down a number of barriers. It was probably five years ago.
If you could find out what happened with that, it would be really good. It was a big program, a joint program
between Vision Australia and ANZ. I think the committee would be very pleased to hear that.
Mr CLIFTON — There is an employment services team, so they will be familiar with that ANZ program,
and I will come back to you.
Mrs COOTE — Thank you so much.
The CHAIR — Can I just follow up perhaps on one of the questions Andrea had. In terms of the recent
review of the Electoral Matters Committee looking into voting, did you provide a submission to that inquiry in
relation to the issues of electronic voting or phone voting?
Mr CLIFTON — To the commonwealth — —
The CHAIR — No, to ours.
Mr CLIFTON — Yes, I believe we did.
Ms FELDMAN — Yes.
Mr CLIFTON — I can check that again on notice.
The CHAIR — I understand that the report just came out.
Mrs COOTE — They just tabled it last week, so we can refer to it as well.
The CHAIR — Yes, that is right.
Mrs POWELL — Thank you both for coming in. You talked about how important it is that the Victorian
government should work collaboratively with local government. I was a councillor when they did a trial where
they blindfolded us and then asked us to walk down a footpath where a lot of restaurants were allowed to put
tables and chairs outside, and there were signs outside. Anybody who was blind or had a vision impairment
would find it very difficult to go across that footpath. Do you have any cases of best practice with
municipalities, councils, that are doing it really well and what other councils can learn from that?
Ms FELDMAN — I am not sure that we have any best practice examples, but we do have public policies on
shared footpaths and street furniture that are accessed regularly by local government. We are referenced quite
widely within local government in Victoria in particular. I am not sure of any best practice examples actually.
Mr CLIFTON — No, not in terms of local government areas. But, as Amy said, they will often reference
the public policy that is outward facing on our website, their kind of managers of public spaces, and then
contact Vision Australia for further information when designing it.
Ms FELDMAN — We are currently working with VicRoads to conduct a pedestrian safety audit around
Vision Australia’s offices in Geelong, Kooyong and Kensington, so we can certainly provide some further
information on that.
Mr CLIFTON — That is about actually — which is probably directly relevant to your question —
designing an audit tool for local governments to audit their areas as against a best practice standard. We do have
a best practice standard but maybe not a specific example of a municipality. There might be anecdotal evidence
31 March 2014
Family and Community Development Committee
6
at Vision Australia that we can provide to you. There may be people who have experience of particular
municipalities that are better than others.
Mrs POWELL — Because until you have actually experienced it you do not realise it is an issue.
Ms FELDMAN — That is very true.
Mrs POWELL — We were blindfolded and walked down the street. If you are looking, you can actually
see the furniture, you can see the signs that are there that should not be there — and they might just put them up
spasmodically; they are not putting them in a certain place all the time, which makes it even more difficult for
somebody who is sight-impaired to be able to walk freely through that area.
Ms FELDMAN — It is true, and it is very difficult to guide someone who is vision impaired through an area
like that as well, let alone trying to navigate it by yourself.
Mr CLIFTON — A trending problem for Victorians at the moment in that area is the rise of alfresco dining,
where we are seeing a lot of clients coming to us about cafes that are now established on a clear line of path
somewhere they have previously been able to navigate quite easily.
Mrs POWELL — And with smoking now being required to be outside.
The CHAIR — I guess to follow up on that from Jeanette, you mentioned best practice tools. Where do they
originate from, and how do we go about making sure that perhaps audits are done against those or that people
are aware of those tools being available to audit against?
Mr CLIFTON — I might answer first. To answer the last part first, Vision Australia has an advocacy and
engagement team which is continually trying to advocate those best practices. We have kind of 15 public
policies in different areas which are readily available, and as opportunities present themselves, either reactively
or proactively, the advocates in our organisation will push them. It may be that a council is looking into a
redesign of a certain area, or it may be that a Parliament is inquiring into their election, and then we will use
those to advocate those policies. We also try to build the advocacy skills of our clients at a local level so that
they can go and visit their local member of Parliament to advocate on a very local level, because obviously with
a small team that is servicing the nation, albeit based in Victoria, it is hard to engage particularly with a local
government area when there are so many of them.
In terms of developing that best practice, as I said, Vision Australia relies a lot on the experience of their clients
to build those policies, and they are reviewed by the client consultative group and often updated as technologies
change or experiences change. That is why recently we have had to develop an alfresco dining policy in
addition to the general streetscape work that is being done, because individual clients will contact Vision
Australia for advocacy on an individual level, and there are people in the organisation who will make contact
whether it be with an education provider, employer or member of Parliament directly on behalf of an individual.
When it gets to a systemic issue where we are seeing multiple clients experiencing an issue, then Vision
Australia will develop a policy and advocate on a more systemic level.
I mentioned the position to which Maryanne Diamond has just been elected in the international community, so
we also have strong links with the World Blind Union and the International Disability Alliance, and that
provides Vision Australia with experience from overseas as to best practice in what is happening in their
jurisdictions. That is then shared with Vision Australia, and to the extent that it is transferable in an Australian
context we will often incorporate that into our policies.
The CHAIR — I am just thinking, particularly in terms of local government, of walking down a street
where you have got those outdoor dining areas where signage and so forth exists, particularly in shopping
precincts, and how to integrate that — whether it becomes a compliance requirement of local government when
there is a set-up, or with existing arrangements to ensure that they do comply and there is a check and balance if
you like.
Ms FELDMAN — We are conducting our policy review at the moment, and certainly one of the things we
are looking at is creating some sort of checklist or audit tools. That is something we are considering with our
31 March 2014
Family and Community Development Committee
7
advocacy team as well; so it is something on our agenda. We have not actually quite touched on that yet or
developed any tools.
Mrs COOTE — Jacob, in your presentation, you spoke of the independent commissioner. You mentioned it
after the Newcastle NDIS site and the Barwon region. Were you speaking about a national independent
commissioner, or were you just talking about Laurie Harkin?
Mr CLIFTON — Yes, I was just referencing the Disability Act, which established that commissioner.
Mrs COOTE — Okay. I thought you were advocating federally — which is a very good idea, I might add.
Ms FELDMAN — I would just add that in a submission to the last inquiry on the NDIS we did advocate for
implementing a disability services commissioner at a federal level that was independent of the NDIA.
Mrs COOTE — That is very good indeed. Thank you. I just wanted to clarify that.
The CHAIR — I thank you very much for attending today and participating in our inquiry. We really
appreciate it, and as mentioned earlier you will receive proof transcripts. Once again, thank you.
Mr CLIFTON — Thank you for having us.
Ms FELDMAN — Thank you very much.
Witnesses withdrew.
31 March 2014
Family and Community Development Committee
8