Investigative Interviewing –
Understanding the Art
IIA – Boise Chapter
April 8, 2014
First Instincts
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First Instincts
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Interview vs. Interrogation
• Interview: A discussion about a specific
subject, best conducted between two persons,
for the purpose of gathering accurate
information regarding a specific subject
• Interrogation: A controlled conversation
between two persons to obtain a confession or
admission of guilt
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Tools of Interrogation
• Proper tools are required
• Perception of interrogation
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Interview Preparation
• To prepare thoroughly you must:
– Know your end game (individually and
corporately)
– Know the risks
– Know your topic—document review and outline
– Know your subject
• Employment file
• Background check
• Other interviews
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Interview Preparation:
Develop a Strategy
• WHO is present in the interview can make all the
difference—pros and cons of having counsel or
others present.
• WHAT is your purpose in the interview? i.e., What
do you hope to get out of it? What do you think
they know?
• WHERE you interview sets the stage, sends a
message, and sets the tone, especially for adversarial
interviews.
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Interview Preparation:
Develop a Strategy
• WHEN you interview is important
– Time of day or week
– Order of interviews
• WHY have you decided to interview this person?
Why now? Remember that every interviewee is a
vulnerability to your investigation.
• HOW are you going to start and end the interview?
What you say in the first minute can make or break
you.
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Interview Tips
• Communications researchers claim non-verbal
communication makes up 65% to 70% of the
“real” message.
• The real message can be contained in:
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voice - pitch, stress, tone, pauses,
language - errors, qualifications, vagueness
facial expressions - eye movement, licking lips
body movements - grooming gestures, tapping
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Spare Thinking Time
• S-l-o-w D-o-w-n
• Control
• Think before you speak
• The power of Silence
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Take Control: “Have a seat.”
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Eliminate distractions
Allow for open discussion
Taking notes = control
Recording interview?
Fill in the missing links
Move with a purpose and a rhythm
Posture
Witness
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The Interview Setting
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Location—“Your place or mine?”
Physical/Psychological advantage
Props: Files, Cabinets, Labels
Position person being interviewed near
the exit with their back to the door
• 4–6 feet apart; entire body in view
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Developing Rapport
• “To give of thyself ”
• Be non-judgmental
• Even non-adversarial interviews require
rapport
• Best sign of good rapport =
conversational tone
• Rapport development continues even
after interview is over
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Mirroring - Rapport
Means doing the mirror image of
the movement of the subject in
order to keep or take control of
the interview
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History of Deceit
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Desire to be truthful
Develop internal response by three
Develop patterns of deceit
Develop signals
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Deceit
• What Indicates Deception?
– According to Freud: “He that has eyes to see
and ears to hear may convince himself that
no mortal can keep a secret. If his lips are
silent, he chatter with his fingertips; betrayal
oozes out of him at every pore”.
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And the #1 Most Common
Interview Mistake Is . . .
TALKING OR
WRITING AND
NOT
LISTENING!
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Listening
•Discriminatory Listening
–My Perceptions and Beliefs
•Passive Listening
–More Attention to Notes then the Subject
•Empathetic Listening
–Observes and Absorbs the Subject
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Interviewing Questions
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Introductory
Informational
Assessment
Closing
Admission-seeking
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Introductory Questions
• Provides an introduction
• Establishes rapport
• Establishes the theme of the
interviews
• Observes the person’s reactions
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General Rules for
Introductory Questions
• Don’t interview more than one person at a
time
• Conduct interviews under conditions of
privacy
• Ask non-sensitive questions (Minimization)
Instead of:
Investigation
Audit
Interview
Embezzle
Use:
Inquiry
Analysis
Ask a few questions
Shortage or paperwork problems
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General Rules for
Introductory Questions
• Get a commitment for assistance
• Make a transitional statement
• Seek continuous agreement
• Do not promise confidentiality
• Negotiations
• Discussing the source of allegations
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Informational Questions
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Open questions
Closed questions
Leading questions
Question sequences
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Informational Question
Techniques
• Begin by asking questions that are not likely to cause
the respondent to become defensive or hostile.
• Ask the questions in a manner that will develop the
facts in the order of their occurrence, or in some other
systematic order.
• Ask only one question at a time, and frame the question
so that only one answer is required.
• Ask straightforward and frank questions; generally
avoid shrewd approaches.
• Keep interruptions to a minimum, and do not stop the
subject’s narrative without good reason.
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Informational Question
Techniques
• Give the respondent ample time to answer; do not rush.
• Try to help the respondent remember, but do not
suggest answers; and be careful not to imply any
particular answer by facial expressions, gestures,
methods of asking questions, or types of questions
asked.
• Repeat or rephrase questions, if necessary, to get the
desired facts.
• Be sure you understand the answers, and if they are not
perfectly clear, have the subject interpret them at that
time instead of saving this for later.
• Give the subject an opportunity to qualify their answers.
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Informational Question
Techniques
• Separate facts from inferences.
• Have the subject give comparisons by percentages,
fractions, estimates of time and distance, and other
such methods to ensure accuracy.
• After the respondent has given a narrative account, ask
follow-up questions about every key issue that has been
discussed.
• Upon conclusion of the direct questioning, ask the
respondent to summarize the information given; then
summarize the facts, and have the respondent verify
that these conclusions are correct.
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Methodology
Informational Phase
• Begin with background questions
• Observe verbal and nonverbal
behavior
• Ask non-leading (open) questions
• Approach sensitive questions
carefully
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Dealing With Difficult People
• Do not react
• Disarm the person
• Change tactics
• Escort to the door
– Inability to leave
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Volatile Interviews
• An interview that has the potential to bring
about strong emotional reactions in the
respondent
• There should be two interviewers
• Should be conducted on a surprise basis
• The order of questions should be out of
sequence
• Use hypothetical questions
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Assessment Questions
• Establishes the credibility of the respondent
• Norming or calibrating
– Process of observing behavior before critical
questions are asked
• Physiology of deception
– People lie for one of two reasons: to receive
rewards or avoid punishment
– The human body will attempt to relieve
stress through verbal and nonverbal clues
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Methodology
• Interviewer: “Most of them aren’t criminals at all. A lot of
times, they’re just trying to save their jobs or just trying to
get by because the company is so cheap that they won’t pay
people what they are worth. Do you know what I mean?”
• Interviewer: “Why do you think someone around here might
be justified in making a secret arrangement with one of the
company’s vendors?”
• Interviewer: “How do you think we should deal with
someone who got in a bind and did something wrong in the
eyes of the company?”
• Interviewer: “Do you think someone in your department
might have done something wrong because they thought
they were justified?”
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Methodology
• Interviewer: “Have you ever felt yourself—even though you
didn’t go through with it—justified in taking advantage of
your position?”
• Interviewer: “Who in your department do you feel would
think they were justified in doing something against the
company?”
• Interviewer: “Is there any reason why someone who works
with you would say they thought you might feel justified in
doing something wrong?”
• Interviewer: “What would concern you most if you did
something wrong and it was found out?”
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Closing Questions
• Reconfirming facts
• Gathering additional facts
– What could you ask?
• Concluding the interview on a
positive note
– Why?
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Nonverbal Clues
• Full-body motions
• Anatomical physical
responses
– Breathing
– Sweating
• Illustrators
• The Face
• Manipulators
• Fleeing positions
• Crossing
– Arms or Legs
• Reaction to evidence
• Fake smiles
– Mouth
– Eyes
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Physical Indicators of Deceit
• Everyone but the most skilled commando
exhibits involuntary outward physical signs
when they are discussing something that makes
them uncomfortable.
• The main indicator is change in movement.
– Eyes
• Up, down, all around
• Look for variation
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Physical Indicators of Deceit
• Posture
– Determine under casual circumstances
– Observe change as pressure builds
• Changes in demeanor
– Mouth, Hands, Attention, Ticks
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Nonverbal Clues
Touching the Face
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Nonverbal Clues
Sensitive Nose
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Nonverbal Clues
The Mouth
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Nonverbal Clues
The Eyes
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Nonverbal Clues
Blinking
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Nonverbal Clues
Eyebrows
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Nonverbal Clues
Crossing
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Nonverbal Clues
The Hands
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Nonverbal Clues
Posture
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Verbal Clues to Deception
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Changes in speech patterns
Repetition of the question
Comments regarding the interview
Selective memory
Making excuses
Oaths
Character testimony
Answering with a question
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Verbal Clues to Deception
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Overuse of respect
Increasingly weaker denials
Failure to deny
Avoidance of emotive words
Refusal to implicate other suspects
Tolerant attitudes
Reluctance to terminate interview
Feigned unconcern
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Verbal Indicators of Deceit
• Disruption in the speech pattern
– Stammer
– Stutter
– Slurring
• Buying time—repeating the question
– “I don’t understand what you’re asking me.”
• Utterances
– Whew!
– Sigh
– Snicker
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Qualified Memory Lapses
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“I don’t think so.”
“I can’t recall.”
“Not to my knowledge.”
“I can’t remember.”
“Not that I can think of.”
“Not that I can remember.”
“Not as far as I know.”
“I have never heard that before.”
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The Criminal Gets Religion!
• “Honest to God . . .”
• “I swear on my mothers grave . . .”
• “May my parents drop dead if I’m
lying . . .”
• “As God is my witness . . .”
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Opposites and Qualifiers
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“Honestly . . .”
“I would never do . . .”
“I’m not the type of person . . .”
“You may not believe this, but . . .”
“This is going to sound like a lie, but . . .”
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I’m GUILTY!
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Past trouble
Similar incident in the past, admitted to it
Third-person
Denies virtually everything
Prejudice on the interviewers part
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False Issues
• History
• Unjustified anger
• Argument over irrelevant issues
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The Word NO
• Timing is everything—too late or
too soon?
• Quality over quantity—“No, no,
no, no, no.”
• Keep it cool—“ NOOOOOO!”
• Size matters—½ No (“N…”)
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The Half No
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The Verbal Queues
Seeing for Ourselves
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Closing the Deal
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Requires momentum
Requires timing
Requires control
May only get one chance . . . be ready!
Happens in steps
Don’t rush it!
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Admission-Seeking Questions
• Distinguish the innocent from the
culpable
• Obtain a valid confession
• Obtain from the confessor a written
statement acknowledging the facts
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Admission-Seeking Questions
• Presence of outsiders
• Miranda warnings
• Theme development
– People will confess if they perceive that the
benefits outweigh the penalties
– Offer a morally acceptable reason for the
confessor’s behavior
– Convey absolute confidence in the premise of
the admission you seek from the subject
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Accusing an Innocent Person
• The accuser has reasonable suspicion or
predication to believe the accused has
committed an offense.
• The accusation is made under conditions of
privacy.
• The accuser does not take any action likely to
make an innocent person confess.
• The accusation is conducted under reasonable
conditions.
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Subject Facts
• Subject is cashier & responsible for sales and
cash refunds
• Internal Audit determined - Most returns of
any other cashier
• Used employee discount to purchase 11 TVs
and returned 8 of them for cash
Theory – Sold TVs to others and faked returns
and/or created fake returns and pocketed the
cash
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The Admission Seeking
Interview
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Steps In The AdmissionSeeking Interview
• Direct accusation
• Observe reaction
• Repeat accusation
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The Accusation
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Steps In The AdmissionSeeking Interview
• Interrupt denials
– Delays
– Interruptions
– Reasoning
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Cut off Denials
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Steps In The AdmissionSeeking Interview
• Establish
rationalization
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Unfair treatment
Inadequate recognition
Financial problems
Aberration of conduct
Family problems
Accuser’s actions
• Establish
rationalization
– Stress, drugs, alcohol
– Revenge
– Depersonalizing the
victim
– Minor moral infraction
– Altruism
– Genuine need
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Establish Rationalizations
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Steps In The AdmissionSeeking Interview
• Diffuse alibis
– Display physical evidence
– Discuss witnesses
– Discuss deceptions
– Present alternative
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Diffuse Alibis
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Steps In The AdmissionSeeking Interview
• Benchmark admission
– Reinforce rationalization
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Benchmark to Final Admission
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Steps In The AdmissionSeeking Interview
• Verbal confession
– That the accused knew the conduct was
wrong
– Facts known only to the perpetrator
– An estimate of the number of instances or
amounts
– A motive for the offense
– When the misconduct began
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Steps In The AdmissionSeeking Interview
• Verbal confession
– When/if the misconduct was terminated
– Others involved
– Physical evidence
– Disposition of proceeds
– Location of assets
– Specifics of each offense
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Admission Seeking – The Flow
Step 1: Accuse the Subject
• “You did …”
• Lay out the facts that relate to subject’s guilt.
• Observe the subject’s reaction.
• If the subject denies responsibility - repeat the
accusation.
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Admission Seeking – The Flow
Step 2: Cut off Denials
• Stop denials by subject or he/she will become
stronger and doubt the strength of your case.
• Interrupt and prevent additional denials remember this is not an interview.
• Use nonverbal gestures to stop denials.
• A guilty subject will grow weaker as the denials
are stopped.
• Tell the subject it is his/her turn to listen.
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Admission Seeking – The Flow
Step 3: Provide reasons to confess
• Tell the suspect why he committed the crime:
• Rationalize and minimize the subject’s behavior.
• Use the “emotional handles” located during the
interview - Mom, drugs, alcohol,
• Give the subject reasons to confess.
• PATIENCE, PERSISTENCE & “PATTER”.
– Patter per Webster is “rapid speech of a salesman”.
• Maintain a monologue and momentum.
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Admission Seeking – The Flow
Step 4: Redirect Protests
• Protests are reasons for innocence provided by
the subject.
• The guilty subject will use protests because the
denials have failed.
• Protests many times are accurate - don’t try to
argue over something that is hard to refute.
• Try to incorporate protests into reasons to
confess.
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Admission Seeking – The Flow
Step 5: Maintain the Subject’s Attention
• Subjects have a tendency to withdraw after
denials and protests fail.
• Move closer to subject - violate his personal
space. Get closer than 18 inches.
• Use the subject’s name and reek sincerity.
• Make the subject focus on the reason to
confess.
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Admission Seeking – The Flow
Step 6: Is the Subject Receptive?
• Nonverbal cues to subject giving in:
– Head drops
• Body leans forward
– Tears - the “last line of defense”
– Reduce “Reasons to Confess” to a succinct
concept.
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Admission Seeking – The Flow
Step 7: Present a Good/Bad Option –Alternative
Question
• Present two explanations for subject’s criminal
behavior:
• One explanation is objectionable - bad.
• The other explanation understandable - good.
• Tell the subject he based his actions on the
good option.
• Ask the subject to confirm the good option.
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Admission Seeking – The Flow
Step 8: Obtain the Confession
• If the subject selects the “good option”:
• Express empathy and understanding.
• Ask open ended questions followed by more specific
detailed questions.
• Get details of crime only known to subject.
• If the subject refuses to make a selection go back to
different reasons to confess.
• Confessions come in pieces not one complete
statement.
• Subjects will “test the water” with small omissions
• Give the subject several little pieces or statements they
can say yes to.
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Admission Seeking – The Flow
• After the subject makes a verbal confession
express understanding.
• “You made a mistake”.
• Shake the subject’s hand and say “… I’m proud
of you….”
• No high fives or gloating in front of the subject
• Why the act?
• Get the confession on paper.
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Taking a Signed Statement
• Voluntary confessions
• Intent
Instead of:
Use:
Lie
I knew the statement/action was untrue.
Steal
I wrongfully took the property of ______ for my
Embezzle
Fraud
own benefit.
I wrongfully took ______’s property which had
been entrusted to me, and used it for my own
benefit.
I knowingly told ______ an untrue statement and
he/she/they relied on it.
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Taking a Signed Statement
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Approximate dates of the offense
Approximate amounts of losses
Approximate number of instances
Willingness to cooperate
Excuse clause
Have the confessor read the statement
Truthfulness of statement
Preparing the statement
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Take a Signed Statement
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Scientific Content
Analysis (SCAN)
• Interviewing is often time consuming and
difficult due to the investigators case load.
– Statement analysis
• Utilizes written statements to narrow the
focus of an investigation
• Eliminates innocent parties in minimal time
• Structured on proven interviewing techniques
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Famous Statement
“…I did not have sexual relations with
that woman, Miss Lewinski. I never told
anybody to lie. Not a single time. Never.
These allegations are false and I need to
go back to work for the American people.”
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CONCLUSION
• When to use interview techniques
– At work?
• Boss
• Co-workers
– At home?
• Spouse
• Children
• Neighbors
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CONCLUSION II
• What do the indicators really mean?
– The subject is guilty
• NO
– The subject is lying
• NO
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P.S.
• I have only given you some of what is
available to you in the search for truth. I
learn something new every time I
“interview” someone. Seek out additional
information in your quest for the truth.
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Investigative Interviewing:
Understanding the Art
The End . . .
No, Just the Beginning!
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Investigative Interviewing –
Understanding the Art
Larry Rosipajla, CPA, CFE
Forensic Alliance LLC
(303) 854-7007 Cell
rosipajla@forensicalliance.biz
www.forensicalliance.biz
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