An Approach to
Difficult Conversations
Presenter
Philip Gardner
VASSP Project Services
Victorian Association of State Secondary Principals
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What do you find difficult?
S What professional conversations have you had recently that
you found difficult?
OR
S What professional conversations do you expect to be
difficult?
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General Tips on School Culture
Around Feedback
S Establish school’s protocols and procedures around
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feedback
Be clear on agreed behaviours, developed with staff input
Have regular conversations around expectations and roles
Be positive and supportive of team decisions
Establish the 4Ps process for discussions:
S permission – what do you want me to do if…..?
S parameters – what are the things we will discuss?
S purpose – what are we trying to achieve in this discussion?
S process – how and when, outcomes, feedback
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How we tend to listen
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For the problem/the fault in the argument
For opportunities to sound intelligent/clever
For a chance to say something funny
For how I could sound important
To information I want/For how it affects me [“meeting behaviour”]
To external distractions – other noise, music, etc
For what’s going on for the other person/what’s it’s telling me bout them
For approval of what you have done
To my own thoughts, not listening to the person at all
To be able to understand the problem
For how I can benefit
For the opportunity to one-up the other person
For what I need to do to help solve the problem [“teacher/leader/principal behaviour”]
For how I can undermine the other person’s point of view or position
For how I can change or end the conversation [“busy person’s behaviour”].
[Based on: Leadership Teams Development Program by Insight SRC & SACS Consulting]
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The 4 pillars of
organisational health
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Empathy
S The degree to which leaders understand the needs of staff members
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Clarity
S The extent to which staff members have a sense of purpose and know
what is expected of them
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Engagement
S The extent to which staff members collaborate, share ideas and solve
problems together, leading to a shared understanding and alignment
of team goals
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Learning
S The extent to which staff members feel their efforts are being
recognised and their capability is being developed through appropriate
learning and development opportunities.
Four Pillars developed by Insight SRC
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Your role as leaders
S Empathy – building trust, respect, and mutual
understanding
S Clarity – building dialogue, discussion, focus and
accountability
S Engagement – building teamwork, empowerment, and
shared ownership
S Learning – building in feedback, personal growth and
challenge
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Examine your own behaviour
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Work on me first
S …the first step to achieving the results we really want is to
fix the problem of believing that others are the source of all
that ails us”
Patterson, Grenny, McMillan, Switzler
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Task or relationship
S When faced with a difficult conversation, it is important to
balance the focus, thus avoiding:
S too much on the task (just tell them what they’ve done wrong
and what you expect next time) or
S too much on the relationship (and by soft-soaping never really
say what the problem is)
For a discussion of this, see Viviane Robinson http://connect.vln.school.nz/olc
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Your team
S What behaviours do you expect of the leadership team?
S Are there behaviours that you tolerate in this team or the
team that you lead that you know are counterproductive?
S Listen carefully to the people around you. Do you hear the
language of responsibility? Or the language of blame and
excuses?
S Does your team’s culture harbour any deep-seated excuses
for poor performance?
S If there are issues of concern, how do you hold each other
accountable?
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Red zone or blue zone
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Red zone traits
A child mind state. You can see any 2-5 year old showing some or all of these.
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Your attention is more focused on your own needs, agendas or outcomes
You tend to be pessimistic
You tend to be vigilant, looking for differences to your expectations
You express negative emotions and thinking with high energy
You stay stuck in a problem
You tend to make global statements like "I always get the slow queue", or "You are
always doing this to me" or "You never keep your room tidy”
You tend to link your current mood or circumstances to any possible future states
"I'll never get the job I want", or "This class will never learn" (tomorrow will be the
same as today).
You tend to be more impulsive, not being able to defer reward or gratification until
a later (perhaps more appropriate) time
You tend to ask poor questions like "Why did you do that?" or "Why are you
always late?" (what useful answer is there to these?)
Andrew Mowat http://thesuccesszone.com/great-listening-mind-state/
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Blue zone traits
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Your attention is more on the needs and outcomes of others
You tend to be optimistic
You are calm, open, present and connected with others
You make accurate (not global) observations like "I feel frustrated right now" or
"Boy this is a slow queue" or "I see that your room is untidy”
You find solutions, or more importantly, you help others find their own solutions
You are able to isolate poor moods and unhelpful experiences to how it is just now,
and that ‘tomorrow could well be better’
You can manage impulses and defer rewards and gratification
You ask better questions, like “What do you need to be able to arrive to class on
time?” or “How might I think about this differently?”
To be our best for others, whether it be as a leader, a teacher, a partner or a parent, we need to
be in our adult (Blue Zone) mind state. From this mind state, we can resolve disputes, solve
problems, manage behaviour (in others) and inspire others to action in a way that is
impossible in the Red Zone.
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What to watch for
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Think | Pair | Share
Thinking about the last professional conversation you had
that left you frustrated or annoyed, what was it about the
person or the conversation that irritated you?
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Open to Learning
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Listening
S Seek first to understand, then to be understood (Stephen Covey)
S Ensure that you hear the other person, and that the other
person knows you are hearing what they are saying.
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Pay attention
S Give the speaker your undivided attention and acknowledge
the message. Recognize that what is not said also speaks
loudly.
S Look at the speaker directly (make eye contact).
S Put aside distracting thoughts. Don’t mentally prepare a
rebuttal.
S Avoid being distracted by environmental factors.
S “Listen” to the speaker’s body language.
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Show that you are
paying attention
S Use your own body language and gestures to convey your
attention.
S Nod occasionally.
S Smile and use other facial expressions.
S Note your posture and make sure it is open.
S Encourage the speaker to continue with small verbal
comments like yes, and uh huh.
S Don’t become distracted by electronic devices.
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Summarising & Clarifying
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Our personal filters, assumptions, judgments, and beliefs can distort what
we hear. As a listener, your role is to understand what is being said. This
may require you to reflect what is being said and ask questions.
S Reflect what has been said by paraphrasing. e.g. “What I’m hearing
is…” and “Sounds like you are saying…”
S Ask questions to clarify certain points. “What do you mean when you
say…” “Is this what you mean?”
S Summarize the speaker’s comments periodically.
S If you find yourself responding emotionally to what someone said,
say so, and ask for more information: "I may not be understanding
you correctly, and I find myself taking what you said personally. What
I thought you just said is XXX; is that what you meant?”
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Coaching
S Who owns the solutions? People should be empowered to
come up with their own solutions to challenging tasks.
S Use future-focused coaching questions rather than
comments or judgements
S Where are you now?
S Where would you like to be in a year from now?
S What do you have to do to get there?
S How and when will you do it?
S Use your Leadership Team meetings to build a database of
effective questions/strategies.
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Questions to ask
S Where induction is required (e.g. someone says they build good
relationships with my students):
S What does that look like in practice?
S If I came into your classroom, what would I look for that
demonstrated that?
S Where deduction is required (e.g. someone says what happened
in a classroom or describes the behaviour of a group of students):
S What did you learn from that?
S How would you approach that in the future?
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How will you sustain success?
S Questions to ask once action has been decided:
S How will you ensure that you carry out these actions?
S What might get in the way? How can we address that?
S What needs to be different about your thoughts, feelings,
behaviours or environment to ensure you carry out these
actions?
S What support/structures are needed to maintain this?
From Growth Coaching International “The Leadership Coaching guide”
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Good listeners
S Think | Pair | Share
Think about someone you regard as a good listener.
What qualities do they display that makes them a good
listener?
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The meeting
Cool conversations
Warm Conversations
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What’s the meeting about?
S Warm – you are telling the person good things about their
work (things they are doing well)
S Cool – you are telling the person something they don’t want to
hear (areas of improvement)
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Acknowledge the rocks,
but don’t dwell on them…
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More financial support from the government
Smaller class sizes; lower teaching allotments
More preparation time for teachers
More support staff to assist students - teacher aides, counsellors, social
workers, etc.
More supportive parents
The abolition of national testing
Higher teacher salaries
Fewer initiatives from the centre
More financial support for teachers’ PD
Better academic preparation of students in primary schools/lower levels
Better facilities
Students with a stronger work ethic and reduced sense of entitlement
based on article by Rick DuFour
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Warm conversations
S Use frameworks to write positive comments
S E5
S PoLT
S VIT
S Workshop this with your team.
S Point out to teachers that all reviewers are doing
this to ensure consistency and the meeting of
accreditation standards.
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Is the team ready?
S Do all staff have the same expectations of:
S What they must do in preparation for the meeting
S What they must supply to the reviewer prior to the meeting, and
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how long before the meeting it will be supplied
How long the meeting will run for
What will be considered evidence of meeting the required
standards
The type and length of comments that will be written
The time it takes for the reviewer to complete/sign off the review
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The Professional Conversation Framework
That Uses A Growth Coaching Approach
S Identify a behaviour one of your team is demonstrating that you need to address. Tell your partner
about this.
S What is current reality for you at the moment? Is there anything about the current reality that
might give you cause for confidence that this behaviour might be positively addressed?
S What options do you have that might be worth pursuing as a means of achieving your goal?
S Now identify one of those actions that might best work for you. Commit to it.
S What strategies will you adopt to help you achieve this?
S What strategies will you adopt to ensure that you can embed this behaviour? How will you hold
yourself to account? How would you help the person whose behaviour you want to address hold
themselves to account?
S What feedback would you like to receive about the above, and who do you want to provide this?
How? How will you respond to the feedback if you don’t agree with it? How will you address this
issue with the person with whom you are conversing?
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1. Do your homework
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Ask for material to be submitted prior to the meeting
to allow you to look at it. This may include:
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Data – student results, surveys
Student work
Have all facts at your disposal. This depend on the
nature of the conversation. It could include:
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Student results (e.g from VCE data service)
Complaints (e.g from parents and students)
Advice (from Conduct and Ethics, VASSP or VGSA
2008 and its Implementation Guide if necessary). At this
stage, the process should be managed by a member of
the Prin Team
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2. Be prepared
S Plan your comments - but don’t read from a script. Cover the points
you want covered.
S Think about possible questions you may be asked and discuss these
with a colleague. Rehearse/role play prior to meeting.
S Set up the room as you would like it, for all to be comfortable
S Have an appropriate time and place for meeting
S Don’t be rushed
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3. Decide who will be at the
interview
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Will anyone be with you?
Offer same opportunity to staff member
Define their role
It may be one person both parties are happy with
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4. Keep focused and on task
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Have an agenda / plan
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Focus on the issue, not the person
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Be clear about the aim, expectation, outcomes and next
step of the meeting
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Plan questions / dot points for response
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When next you have this (difficult) student, what could you do
differently?
To be the best teacher you can be, what do you think you need
to do more of / less of ?
Avoid deflections – acknowledge peripherals, but go
straight back to the issue
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5. Stay emotionally controlled
Understand you can’t control someone’s response.
Don’t engage in the emotion
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“I can see this is upsetting for you, but I would like to find a solution
that works for everyone”
Respond quickly to a situation, but hold the meeting later
when emotions have cooled.
Recognise that this meeting may be uncomfortable for both.
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6. Listen actively to the person’s
opinion
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Try to give person ownership of issue and solution
Provide an opportunity for the person to speak their mind,
to tell their story
Reflect on their opinion
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7. Recognise when to hand over
to the next level
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Should an Assistant Principal or Principal be involved?
Is this a case for Unsatisfactory Performance or
Misconduct?
Would a support group be of help?
Is counselling necessary?
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8. Keep clear notes
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Restate what has been agreed at meeting
Have a written summary and any other documentation
collated
Share notes – both parties have a copy
Assume these notes may be used in other forums (e.g. Merit
Protection Board) and write them accordingly.
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9. Use accepted frameworks
S Include areas which require improvement/are to be worked
on. This is especially important where future action may
need to be taken..
S Use phrases from DEECD documents for areas of
improvement as well as for achievements
S VIT accreditation
S E5 Instructional Model
S PoLT
S Whatever framework you have agreed to/discussed
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10. Invite a follow-up meeting if
desired / necessary
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Enables debriefing
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Where to from here?
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Encourage staff member to seek feedback from
others if appropriate
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A Difficult Conversations
Framework
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Identify the purpose of the conversation, express it concrete, SMART goal
terms.
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Explore current reality. What are the factors that inhibit what we might want to
achieve? What factors might assist in moving things forward?
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What options are there that might be worth pursuing as a means of achieving the
outcome?
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Now identify one of those actions that might be worth trying. Commit to it.
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What strategies might be tried to help achieve this?
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What strategies can be adopted to ensure that might serve to consolidate the
action, to embed practice? How can we hold ourselves to account for following
through with what we decide?
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How can we use feedback as a mechanism for ensuring progress?
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Scenarios
S Using one of the scenarios provided, practice the
conversation you might have with the person. Do this in
groups of three where:
S One person plays the role of the difficult person
S One person is the leader who has to initiate the conversation
S One person is an observer, looking for whether the
conversation progresses along coaching guidelines. Keep notes
for feedback.
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After the meeting
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How did it go?
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Seek feedback about the process with staff
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Keep
Try
Change
Discuss what was agreed before
the process was begun.
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Where is your team?
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Goal - What does the team need to achieve in relation to difficult
conversations?
Reality – what is happening now?
Options – What could you do?
Will – What will you do?
Tactics – How and when will you do it?
Habits – How will you ensure you carry out these actions?
Think | Pair | Share
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What are the main things you think should be kept in mind for conducting
difficult conversations?
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Professional Development
S Reading
S John Whitmore: Coaching for Performance (Nicholas Brealey)
S Patterson, Grenny, McMillan, Switzler: Crucial Conversations (McGraw-Hill)
S Patterson, Grenny, McMillan, Switzler: Crucial Confrontations (McGraw-Hill)
S Viviane Robinson “Open to Learning Conversations” http://connect.vln.school.nz/olc
S Courses/Resources
S GROWTH Coaching ~ http://www.australiangrowthcoaching.com/
S Andrew Mowat ~ http://thesuccesszone.com/
S Monash University ~ http://www.adm.monash.edu.au/human-resources/leadership-development/team-performance.html
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