Martin Christopher
Interview:   Professor   Martin   Christopher
Humanitarian   Logistics
Steve   Macaulay   Hello,   I   am   Steve   Macaulay   and   I   am   interviewing   Professor   Martin
Christopher   about   a   book   that   he   has   co ‐ edited   with   Peter
Tatham;   it   is   called   Humanitarian   Logistics:   Meeting   the
Challenges   of   Preparing   for   and   Responding   to   Disasters .
Now,   Martin,   it   is   a   big   area   –   can   you   describe   how   the   book   came   about   and   really   what   the   situation   is   with   disasters?
Martin   Christopher   Yes;   well   first   of   all   the   background   to   the   book.
For   some   years   now   here   at   Cranfield   we   have   established,   jointly   actually   with
Cardiff   University,   a   working   group   of   academics   and   professionals   in   the   humanitarian   field   –   we   call   it   the   Cranfield ‐ Cardiff
Humanitarian   Logistics   Initiative.
It   draws   also   very   much   on   the   strength   that   we   have   at   our   sister   campus   at   Shrivenham,   with   a   lot   of   folks   with   defence   backgrounds   and   so   on.
So   we   really   began,   I   guess,   after   the   Asian   Tsunami   which   I   think   for   the   first   time   really   highlighting   the   challenges   of   managing   logistics   and   supply   chains   in   these   disaster   situations.
So   that   is   really   where   we   got   started   and   we   are   trying   to   draw   together   a   lot   of   different   strands,   a   lot   of   different   experiences,   expertise   and   research   based   material.
One   of   the   things   we   discovered,   was   that   not   a   lot   of   work   had   been   done   actually   in   this   area;   every   event   was   almost   a   one   off.
We   hadn’t   captured   a   lot   of   knowledge   and   so   forth.
Things   happened;   we   started   to   run   conferences   for   professionals   and   others,   we   started   to   write.
We   were   approached   by   the   publisher   to   say   look,   this   is   an   area   which   is   clearly   important,   would   you   be   interested   in   putting   this   book   together?
So   that   is   probably   the   genesis   of   the   book.
Steve   Macaulay   So   what   is   the   nub   of   the   problem,   then?
I   think   everybody   in   the
2004   Tsunami,   first   of   all   their   hearts   went   out   there,   horrified   at   the   disaster   and   then   horrified   again   at   the   sheer   waste   and   the   inefficiencies   that   happened   and,   in   a   way,   that   has   been   repeated   in   countless   cases   since.
Martin   Christopher   Well,   I   think   one   of   the   things   that   we   have   learnt   is   that   first   of   all   disasters   seemingly   are   on   the   increase;   there   are   a   number   of   insurance   companies   who   clearly   are   very   much   involved   in   this   and   they   have   been   keeping   records   which   go   back   maybe   forty,   fifty   years   even.
And   for   whatever   reason,   be   it   floods,   be   it   earthquakes   –   whatever   –   there   are   more   of   these   events   than   there   were   before.
So   I   think   they   are   much   more   on   the   radar   www.cranfieldknowledgeinterchange.com
© Cranfield University 1

Martin Christopher than   perhaps   was   the   case   in   the   past.
Also   too,   I   think,   one   of   the   things   which   we   have   all   come   to   recognise   here   is   that   in   many   of   these   disaster   relief   programmes,   it   is   really   all   about   logistics   at   the   end   of   the   day.
The   world   is   actually   pretty   generous;   you   know,   we   raise   significant   amounts   of   money   when   these   things   happen   –   we   know   that.
But   one   of   the   things   that   we   are   learning   is   that   we   haven’t   been   particularly   good   –   not   always,   anyway   –   at   how   that   money   is   actually   used.
And   you   mention   the   word   waste   for   instance,   and   we   have   all   got   to   look   at   the   background   to   this.
I   think   what   we   are   discovering,   and   certainly   the   Tsunami   highlighted   this,   is   that   there   are   many,   many   different   agencies,   NGOs   and   so   forth,   who   all   have   obviously   the   best   of   intentions,   all   intent   upon   delivering   relief   in   one   form   or   another,   but   all   –   certainly   in   the   past   –   doing   their   own   thing.
And   that   I   think   was   one   of   the   things   that   we   really   saw   highlighted   as   a   result   of   that   Tsunami.
So   a   number   of   things   have   happened   from   that;   one   in   particular,   I   think,   was   the   creation   by   the   United   Nations   of   an   approach   they   call   the   Logistics   Cluster,   actually   based   out   of   Rome,   run   by   the
World   Food   Programme   –   they   are   the   co ‐ ordinating   body   –   who   seek   to   try   to   bring   together   now,   certainly   at   a   planning   and   strategic   stage,   all   of   these   different   agencies   who   previously   were   trying   to   operate   –   who   were   operating   –   independently.
So   we   might   want   to   talk   a   little   bit   more   about   that   later,   but   that,   I   think,   was   one   of   the   things   that   has   happened   as   a   result   of   that   and   we   are   all   starting   to   become   a   lot   more   aware   of   the   need   to   be   much   better   at   co ‐ ordination,   we   need   to   have   in   place   beforehand   the   systems   and   the   procedures   which   are   standard,   which   we   can   almost   pull   off   the   shelf   and   use   as   and   when   required.
Steve   Macaulay   So   in   other   words,   rather   than   just   focus   in   on   the   immediate   disaster,   that   you   need   to   take   a   step   backwards?
What   actually   does   that   involve   then,   because   I   can   imagine   if   I   were   giving   some   money,   I   would   say   I   want   you   to   be   there   ready   to   respond,   but   I   am   not   too   happy   about   people   sitting   around   or   just   wasting   resources,   if   you   like,   anticipating   something   that   might   happen?
Martin   Christopher   Actually,   Steve,   you   have   put   your   finger   on   a   very   important   point   there,   because   many   of   these   programmes   are   donor   driven   in   the   sense   that   they   give   money   –   governments   particularly   –   for   specific   purposes.
And   you   are   absolutely   right   that   if   you   say   ok,   what   I   want   to   do   is   actually   I   want   to   use   some   of   these   resources   for   positioning;   for   instance,   for   establishing   regional   distribution   centres,   for   creating   capabilities   –   particularly   logistics   skills.
And   that   is   the   sort   of   an   investment   which   hopefully   we   may   never   need   to   use.
Now   getting   support   for   that   isn’t   always   that   easy;   www.cranfieldknowledgeinterchange.com
© Cranfield University 2

Martin Christopher and    so,   I   think,   this   is   one   of   the   challenges.
Disasters,   as   I   say,   normally   we   can   raise   the   money,   but   often   it   is   a   bit   too   late.
Had   we   been   able   to   get   in   place   beforehand   –   be   it   regionally,   be   it   on   the   ground,   particularly   I   think   not   just   the   inventories   that   are   required,   but   I   think   the   skills   and   the   capabilities.
Those   I   think   are   some   of   the   challenges   we   still   have   to   face   and   address.
Steve   Macaulay   So   if   you   were   to   pick   out   some   areas   that   if   you   say   I   would   really   like   these   things   to   be   addressed   –   we   are   starting   to   address   them,   but   in   ten   years’   time,   I   would   like   these   things   to   have   been   solved,   what   would   they   be?
Martin   Christopher   Well,   for   instance,   if   you   talk   to   commercial   supply   chain   managers   and   you   say   what   is   one   of   the   most   vital   things   you   need   to   run   one   of   today’s   complex   global   supply   chains?
And   almost   always   they   will   say   information;   it   is   about   visibility.
Can   I   actually   see   where   things   are   in   the   supply   chain?
Can   I   see   what   is   required   at   one   end,   what   is   available   supply ‐ wise   at   the   other   end?
Where   are   things   in   between?
And   so   information   systems   and   the   capability   to   track   and   trace,   these   are   critical.
Now   the   good   news   is   that   there   has   been   a   great   focus   on   this   in   the   whole   humanitarian   logistics   arena   over   this   last   five   to   ten   years   basically.
A   lot   of   the   input   coming   interestingly   from   some   of   the   commercial   logistics   organisations   who   have   been   very   to   the   front,   I   think,   of   helping   these   agencies   in   imparting   some   of   their   skills   into   how   we   can,   if   you   like,   do   the   same   sort   of   thing   in   a   humanitarian   context.
So   that,   I   think,   is   where   we   still   need   to   invest,   we   still   need   to   develop   further.
And   again,   it   is   about   standardisation;   it   is   being   able   to   say   well   let’s   use   the   same   system   so   that   we   can   talk   with   each   other,   we   can   share   that   sort   of   information.
There   is   still   a   lot   to   be   done,   I   think,   in   that   particular   field.
I   think   the   other   one   also,   too,   interestingly,   is   the   need   for   a   higher   level   of   professionalism   and   skills   in   the   whole   logistics   and   supply   chain   management   area.
A   lot   of   these   agencies   don’t   actually   have   a   lot   of   in ‐ depth   experience,   people   who   are   qualified   in   logistics   who   are   experienced   in   logistics   management;   that   ,   I   think,   is   still   where   we   need   to   be   putting   a   lot   more   focus,   a   lot   more   energy.
Steve   Macaulay   So,   if   you   were   to   say   where   we   have   come   from   and   where   we   need   to   go   to;   is   there   still   a   big   gap   there?
Are   we   half   way   there?
Two   thirds   there?
Can   you   give   me   some   feel   of   the   size   of   where   we   have   moved   from   and   where   we   need   to   move   to?
Martin   Christopher   Well,   I   have   talked   to   a   lot   of   people   who   are   engaged   daily   in   these   sorts   of   arenas   and   there   is   some   very   good   practice   around;   I   mean   www.cranfieldknowledgeinterchange.com
© Cranfield University 3

Martin Christopher
we   have   to   make   that   point.
But   I   think   also   too,   what   we   are   saying   is   it   is   in   pockets   and   so   in   terms   of   where   we   are,   we   are   still,   I   think,   a   long   way   from   that   sort   of   level   of   expertise   and   capability   that   we   require.
Now,   we   are   never   going   to   be   able   to   have   perfection   in   this   because   by   definition   most   of   these   events   are   unexpected,   we   are   not   sure   where   it   is   going   to   happen   next,   when   it   is   going   to   happen,   what   the   scale   of   it   is   going   to   be;   and   so,   being   able   to   cope   with   that   in   a   way   which   meets   the   satisfaction   of   everybody   involved   is   probably   just   too   much   to   ask   for.
But,   I   think,   there   are   certainly   a   lot   of   things   we   can   be   doing   –   and   should   be   doing   –   and   particularly,   I   think,   it   is   this   realisation   that   we   have   got   to   be   working   much   more   on   a   co ‐ ordinated   level.
The   Logistics   Cluster   idea   I   highlighted   earlier   was   a   UN   initiative   which   has   already   borne   fruit   and   will   continue,   I   think,   to   be   –there   is   still   a   lot   more   to   be   done   there   because   cultural   issues,   as   you   can   imagine,   bringing   different   agencies   from   different   countries,   trying   to   get   them   to   sing   to   the   same   song   sheet;   not   always   that   easy.
But   I   think   it   is   investing   in   that   sort   of   initiative   that   is   going   to   take   us   forward.
Martin,   thank   you   very   much.
Steve   Macaulay
Martin   Christopher   Thank   you.
www.cranfieldknowledgeinterchange.com
© Cranfield University 4