Rowan-Salisbury Board of Education
Joint Meeting with Board of County Commissioners
February 7, 2013
Minutes
The Rowan-Salisbury Board of Education met with the Board of County Commissioners on
February 7, 2013 at 4:00 p.m. at Hood Theological Seminary with the following members
present: Dr. Richard Miller, Mrs. Kay Wright Norman, Mrs. W. Jean Kennedy, Mrs. Susan Cox,
Mr. L. A. Overcash, Mr. Joshua Wagner, and Mr. Charles Hughes. Also present were Dr. Judy
Grissom, and Mrs. Bonnie Holder, Clerk to the Board.
The following members of the Rowan County Board of Commissioners were present:
Chairman Mr. Jim Sides, Vice Chairman Mr. Craig Pierce, Mr. Jon Barber, Mr. Chad Mitchell,
and Mr. Mike Caskey. Also present was Mrs. Carolyn Barger, Clerk to the Board.
Call to Order / Roll Call
Dr. Miller called his Board to order at 4:00 p.m. Mr. Sides called his Board to order. Dr. Albert
Aymer of Hood Theological Seminary welcomed the two Boards and members of the audience
followed by an opening prayer. Mr. Hughes officiated the Pledge of Allegiance.
Adopt Agenda
Dr. Miller stated he would like to add an information item for the Board of Education to update
them on the County Commissioners and City Council meetings.
**Mr. Overcash moved to adopt the agenda as amended. Mr. Hughes seconded. Unanimously
approved. (7:0)
Discussion Items
Agreement to Process for Discussion
Dr. Miller explained that the meeting was taking place that day as the result of a meeting he and
Mr. Sides had earlier to discuss the relationship of the two boards. Dr. Miller stated that all the
voices in the room were equal, and welcomed suggestions from anyone.
Dr. Miller distributed a document with the focus areas for the relationships of the boards. He
reviewed the outline.
Dr. Miller opened the floor for anyone to make any points about the outline. Mr. Sides said he
appreciated everyone being at the meeting and hoped that the two boards can agree to work
jointly on items that are common to both boards.
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State of the Relationship Expectations From Each Board; Collectively and/or
Individually.
Mr. Sides said he felt that most problems between them are created when there are discussions
of money. He said there is always that position each year when the school board comes to the
county to present their budget and the county doesn’t have enough money to fund what they
requested, so this has always caused tension. Mr. Sides said again that he feels this is what has
always been the problem.
Mr. Sides said they are in a position where it is expected of them to come up with the money that
the state does fund. He said he respects what the school board’s task is, but there is difference
of opinions in the interpretation of the General Statutes.
Agreement to Relationship Expectations and/or Strategies for How to Achieve Them.
Mr. Sides said when he looks at his mandated responsibilities are as a county commissioner, he
has to look at where their authority is. Mr. Sides said the BOC is in the position to determine
needs, but they are criticized when the BOE disagrees. He said if they had the $31M in capital
needs, they would give it.
Mr. Sides explained that he feels you should pay off what you owe before you borrow more
money, and when you talk about mutual respect, you have to establish who has what authority.
He said he is certainly open to additional meetings, and that the meeting today is not the last
one.
Mr. Hughes said he thinks everyone knows what respect is. He said stated that he feels we
confuse that with what we want and what we need.
Mr. Pierce said he hopes we could resolve what we can. He stated he would like to resolve the
statement that acknowledged that the boards are equal. Mr. Pierce explained that he didn’t have
a problem the statement when both boards are equal, such as discussing school system issues.
However, he stated that the county commission has more than the school board on its plate. Mr.
Pierce said it distresses him to hear a school board member say they are as equal as the
commission.
Mr. Pierce said they don’t have time to micro manage the school board’s decisions, but he wanted
the BOE to understand that they are not the only entity they have control over. He said if the two
boards could approach the issue such that the BOE understands the commission, and what they
have to do.
Mr. Overcash said what he meant with the statement Mr. Pierce is referring to is that they have
the same equal responsibilities for the citizens of this county as the commission does. He
explained he understands the commission has a larger scope, but again, he meant the BOE has
as equal a responsibility to the citizens regarding their roles.
Mr. Overcash stated that he did believe that the commission does try to micro manage the school
system because it is the BOE’s responsibility to determine the location of it’s facilities, and the
BOC’s responsibility to borrow the funds, but boundaries are being overstepped. Mr. Overcash
said the BOE wants to run the school system they way the citizens what the school system run.
Mr. Hughes said what the citizens want is that we do our jobs.
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Mr. Caskey said having been on both boards, he felt we are comparing apples and oranges, and
there are defined roles for each board.
Dr. Miller said the concern he has is that on occasion the school system is treated as a red
headed stepchild. Therefore, the equality thinking is the fact that the school system is a taker
and receiver of local tax revenue, but we also are putting money back in. Dr. Miller explained
that, as the largest employer with a reasonable payroll, the employees are making a contribution
back to the county. He said he wants the BOC to recognize what the school employees
contribute.
Dr. Miller stated our county is one of the poorest in the state, and one of the highest in free and
reduced lunch, but our school system is getting recognized throughout the country for our
programs, and is receiving distinguished awards. He explained that school system staff has had
to apply for grant funding, and we are fortunate enough to use grant monies to create many of
these programs and initiatives that are proving to be successful.
Dr. Miller said that there is .4 cents on the last bond issue that has not been levied, and the
school system could have used those funds to do the things we needed to do over the past
several years.
Dr. Miller explained that the school system pays for construction from the ½ cent sales tax
collected each year. He said in this same timeframe the school system has brought in $26-27M in
grants to fund many of our programs, but that money will run out. He asked the commissioners
how do the two boards find the common ground to continue the programs that are effectively
working.
Mr. Sides said the reality of politics is not going away. He said the way to get your way is to
convince three people on the BOC that you have the need. He stated that when the vote was
taken in 2002, the citizens authorized, “up to $.6 cents”. It was not a mandate to raise taxes of
the entire .6 cents. Mr. Sides said he made no apologies for not raising taxes. Mr. Sides also
said the legislature gives the authority to the commissioners to use the lottery money as they
want.
Mr. Sides said his argument is that debt needs to be paid off before more debt is made. Dr.
Miller said he was trying to explain is that the sales tax would have given the commissioners
other money to pay the debt service.
Mrs. Norman stated that in talking about the 51-49% rule, it says to her that when you have the
money you have the power and when you have the power, you have the authority. Mrs. Norman
said that sometimes promises are made before you get into office, and you may have to make
more informed decisions later as facts are presented. Mrs. Norman said to Mr. Sides that he was
the leader of the commission, so she did put the load on his back. Mr. Sides responded, “I only
speak for one.”
Mr. Sides said politics is not going away. Dr. Miller asked what the commission would expect the
BOE to bring forward. He questioned what would need to happen to get at least three of them to
agree on requests. Mr. Sides answered, “You talk with one commissioner; you talk with a second
commissioner, and you speak with a third commissioner, and if you have their votes, you don’t
need to talk with the other two.”
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Mr. Pierce said he sat out in the audience of many BOC meetings purposely to learn what the
issues were. He stated the commission voted to approve the $6M for the central office, but it
was later learned that they were presented wrong information.
Mr. Pierce said he knows the compassion the BOE has for what the school needs. However, the
commission has to look at the entire package, not just what is best for the children. He said that
although the schools are important, they have to also look at the needs of every other agency in
the county and do what is right for the taxpayer.
Mr. Overcash stated that we all live in the same county, and we all reap what comes from this
county. He said the two boards needed to find out how to solve these problems and get away
from arguing about it. Mr. Overcash noted that just because the commission votes, “No,” doesn’t
mean the need goes away.
Mr. Mitchell said each of the boards has a sphere of influence, and it is when they get close
together that the problems arise. Mr. Mitchell said he certainly believes that meetings of the two
boards should occur, and the leadership of both boards needed to meet on a regular basis. He
said that we have to take the people who are on the two boards and work together. Mr. Mitchell
said he understands that it is frustrating to him to have a vote go one way and then another.
Mr. Mitchell suggested that possibly the boards could come to an agreement on an amount of per
pupil funding, and know that will be approved each year. He further suggested that if the school
system has a great program they would like to add to their budget request on any given year,
they should ask for it. Mr. Mitchell expressed that he felt the school system should maintain a
fund balance.
Mr. Barber welcomed everyone. He said that unless we agree that we can work together, it will
probably be another long while before the two boards meet again.
Mr. Barber said he supports and values our county’ss school system, including the community
college and colleges. He stated K-12 is a significant part of the total education system. Mr.
Barber noted that the school system has accomplished a tremendous amount of things over the
last six years, and he congratulated the BOE.
Mr. Barber said he hopes our respective boards will demonstrate leadership to our citizens. He
advised the quality of our education is key component when businesses are looking to move here.
He said he also agrees that the school system should have a fund balance.
Mrs. Cox expressed that in light of some of the things she has heard at the meeting today, she
believes the issue is money, and that is the most obvious. She stated, however, it is incumbent
upon both boards to have transparency. Mrs. Cox said if each one of us would search our own
selves, we could do a better job.
Mr. Wagner said he does try to consider what he says before speaking. However, one thing that
has struck him is that there are a lot of areas where the boards agree, but more where we
disagree. He said he feels we get caught up in what is political and what is personal. Mr.
Wagner explained that just because you disagree when doing business, doesn’t mean that it is
personal.
Mr. Wagner said he agrees the school system should have a fund balance. Where he thinks the
friction comes is what surrounds that fund balance. He said the tug of war comes when some
want to use the fund balance only as an emergency fund and some would rather it be a slush
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fund. Mr. Wagner expressed again that he agrees the school system needs a fund balance, but
with a restriction of how it is used.
Dr. Miller said a per pupil expenditure level and the question of fund balance are the two items he
sees surfacing from the discussion. He noted that there is a reason for the school board election
to be non-partisan, which is to keep politics out of its deliberating, and to do what is best for the
kids.
Mr. Sides suggested that the BOE consider formulating a time when there can be regular
meetings of the leadership, but not by appointing committees. He said they could both go back
to their boards to communicate what was discussed.
Mr. Sides stated one other thing is that the issue of money is not going to go away. He said he
felt it was not the BOC that has not fulfilled their responsibility, but the state legislature. Mr.
Sides said the focus that the two boards need to have is to approach the legislature and request
that they set a policy, statewide, that whatever they set their budget at, the BOE gets a
percentage. He also felt that the state should set the fund balance for the school system.
Dr. Miller said he felt the boards were at a good point to end.
Dr. Miller called for a five minute break of the BOE at 5:30 p.m.
**Mr. Pierce moved to adjourn the BOC. Mr. Mitchell seconded. Unanimously approved.
The Board of Education reconvened at 5:38 p.m.
Update on the County Commissioners and City Council Meetings.
Dr. Miller spoke first about the motions that had been taken by the County Commissioners and
the City Council. He advised he was waiting on the official motion from the County of their offer
of the vacant DSS building and the building on West Innes and the Mahaley Avenue building
owned by the BOC. He explained that he would put together data on those buildings by the
February 25 BOE meeting. Dr. Miller asked the Board to give him any questions that they might
want him to ask.
Dr. Miller said although some may have read the article in the Post, the second item was to
mention that the City Council approved two items at their recent meeting to authorize Mr. Doug
Paris to investigate what it would take to offer an $8M loan to the BOE. Dr. Miller said he was
very appreciative of this positive stance.
He said the City Council also passed a motion on the $.1 sales tax increase proposed, and
approved by the County Commissioners. The City is seeking to request all of the money
generated by the $.1 sales tax increase to go toward local education. Dr. Miller said he plans to
invite and is hoping to have representatives from the Board of Commissioners and City Council to
be at our Board meeting on Feb. 25 to share details on their $.1 sales tax proposals.
Announcements
None
Adjournment
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**Mr. Hughes moved to adjourn at 6:00 p.m. Mr. Overcash seconded. Unanimously
approved. (7:0)
Dr. Richard W. Miller, Chairman
Dr. Judy S. Grissom, Ed. D., Secretary
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