Fall NRCG Training Committee Meeting
October 27-28, 2004
AFD
Missoula, MT
Wednesday, October 27
Introductions (Neil Nelson)-----------------------------------------------------1000-1015
Out of Region Nominations (Bob Cunningham)---------------------------1015-1200
300 level and above course nominations were prioritized by Committee
Training reps will then meet in Tucson with the above names
All Fed and State Agencies (Except FWL & Park Service) have agreed that
nominations will be prioritized.
Will work with BLM National Training Center in Phoenix to get them on-line
Have managers discussed how many slots each geographic area may get?
Quick analysis shows we need more 493 and 492 sessions (Bob .
D-311 pre-requisites are in question—fully qualified dispatcher necessary now-Can we put above on in May—can anyone help teach it--Gary will be the lead
instructor
FL-210: 47 nominations –did not include Salish-Kootenai people-does Training
Center need to put it on in the future since it is done in other Agencies—
**recommendation by attendees was that it should become a zone course
Weather Station Maintenance-WSM- important because of Kramer Fire---won’t teach
both types of stations at this course—more oriented towards trouble shooting than the
setting up-- station maintenance will be stressed
RO will collect nominations for Steering Committee who will pick participants for
Local Fire Management Leadership course.
Bobby Golden will get nominations for Incident Medical Specialist.
Leadership Course Nominations
o Cost is a big issue—the course is very costly.
o Use same procedure as last year—please turn in your nominations to Bob
Cunningham. If we have slots left, we can open it to other Agencies An SF182 is necessary to process application.
** --We need to help encourage people to get into Finance and Logistics, which are
very low in nominees.
o Asked Bob C. to take to GATOR meeting the idea to rotate the Finance
and Logistics courses with R4 and R6 as we do with S-420.
o Picking more than one area of expertise is recommended.
o It’s hard to get Fire people into Finance and Logistics.
o Finance Section Chiefs may be more difficult to fill because of
centralization process ongoing.
o HR people are also impacted by above.
IQCS Status and Update (Errecart/Cunningham)-------------------------------1345-1430
o IQCS Schedule –different level of permissions—we need to do a training
class, with 25 persons maximum, here in the spring to get more people on
board (Errecart)
o IQCS can download to Ross—other systems don’t do this, so everyone
needs to get on IQCS and be on the same page
o Different level of involvement for people in this system—because not all
are using IQCS fully.
o Bob Cunningham: IQCS is a work in progress—May be a problem to
have training people in an authority role-- program does have problems,
management problems and qualification issues—system is 30% proficient.
Could take 2-3 years to get it running well. Bob passed out Draft
Implementation Plan from California. He suggested that we look at
draft and select a committee (Account Managers, etc) to review this
plan, validate it, and propose changes to it. Carrie Errecart, Neil
Nelson, Larry Elder, Rosie LeMire, Frank Waterman, and Jim
Clarmont volunteered to do this. Class charged with reading the
Draft tonight and discussing it tomorrow—need to come up with an
edit of the California plan for tomorrow’s class and suggestions as to
when we could do a class.
o Need a train-the-trainer session in IQCS. Bob Cunningham will request
cadre for training for spring 2005.
o IQCS is very labor intensive to input all the necessary information.
o Getting necessary approvers can be difficult-you may have to write a
justification before a person can sign off.
o Old records not always available to qualify people who are already a
recipient of a red card.
o IQCS is a data cleanup nightmare.
o Certain people should do specific jobs for IQCS—need data incident
protocols.
o Need sign-off on who is qualified to approve red card.
o First training session should be for account managers of IQCS. Should
have a workshop previous to the training session.
o We still do a completion letter for state and local agencies without IQCS.
o State uses IQS, which goes directly into ROSS.
ACE curricula in Missoula (Jim Claremont)-------------------------------------1500-1515
NRCG suggested to Boise that ACE (Aviation Conference and Education) be
held in Missoula. After Cheryl took it to the Boise committee, she notified us
that we were recommended to host this course in the spring of 2006. (Other
possible choices are Spokane or Billings). They wait 1½ months before the
course is offered online, but will tell where and when they have it. It is
offered in RENO this April.
Zone Training Schedules (Neil Nelson)-------------------------------------------1515-1600
o Get training schedules into Rosie by November.
o NWZ
o Park Service will have a course on Lookouts.
o DNRC-engine academy in June—spend 4 days on tasks for engine boss—very
good course
o S-231 course is offered by DNRC with no tuition charge. It includes task
bookwork and is very field oriented. The coordinator is Wally Bennett
o Park Service—putting on 244,
o 2 sessions of S-260 and S-261.
o L-281 and one 410 class being put on by FS
o Last week of May and first week of June—FNF Fire Academy at FVCC will
do several courses such as S-200. Glacier National Parks class may be held at
the same location.
o SCZ
o South Central Zone, with local government (in cooperation with DNRC),
takes graduates from I-300 for a weekend engine academy session Friday
through Sunday. It includes 5 or 6 different events, mainly initial attack
exercises. Students, working with 24 various types of engines, rotate through
six stations and are evaluated at each station. There is a training specialist
present from firefighter up to IC. The session includes planning, logistics and
finance. This informal training is usually done the second weekend of June.
o Firewise Workshop- Friday and Saturday in late January or early February
o EMZ
o Eastside---Seat Managers Class on April 4-8; Crow Agency putting on
schools first week in June; three S-393 courses scheduled in December in
Billings-Miles City; FI-210 class in April; last week in Jan-facilitative
instructor; in spring we have an S-215 course; in June there will be a S-217
class; IQCS workshop is on December 1; I suites training; S-390 and S-200 is
a work in progress
o DNRC
o DNRC—the 3 land offices will have schedules posted with us.
o NDZ
o ND-Wildland portion of State Forestry School—I-100, and 200; S-131, S290, Ignition Urban Interface; Pumps 211, 231 and 261; Engine Boss
courses; Engine Workshop; Firewise workshop course—will be on ND
Dispatch website.
o SWZ—Confederated Salish-Kootenai Tribes
o Rookie training by the Confederated Salish-Kootenai Tribes will be held the
week of June13. May and June courses are tentatively planned.
DNRC Equipment committee Report - Tim Crosmer-----------------------1600-1630
o April 11-15 Equipment Workshop
o Advanced Equipment Workshop to introduce new rules and regulations- in March
sometime in Helena—1 ½ day of class and ½ day of field work.
o The 2006 Needs Analysis will take nominations for basic and advanced
courses by October1 so that they can plan better future courses;
o The Big Iron Workshop will be sponsored/coordinated by the NRCG
Equipment Committee. (Target audience: fire operations, fuel reduction, and
safety officers, and resource advisors)—May 2-3 in Missoula; May 5-6 in
CDA
There was a discussion on how to train finance people, etc. who are not on the fireline in
Standards of Survival
.
Jim Claremont:
Regarding the Crew Boss task books, the 2004 version is different than previous
years. Tasks 1-45 are required for all Single Resource Boss positions and 47-59 are
necessary to complete for engine boss. Task 46, in which you have to take out a 1620 person crew (NWCG approved – types1-III), is necessary to qualify for crew
boss. Go to the internet and pull the newest version off to make sure that you get
the latest.
Ops Report, by Chris Shelton, ----------------------------------------------------1630-1700
o There is concern about operations people doing more than they are qualified for
ie: COR.
o When signing up EERA’s for local needs, we need to identify each unit’s true
needs.
o Talked about Type 2 team--the alternate list is not really an availability list for
IC’s. It is more of an informational tool for resource possibilities. Will maintain
list to recognize those who are interested in being on this list.
o We continue to advertise Type I and 2 Type teams; a proposal was for one type 1,
four type 2 teams this year. We will discuss full staffing of these at the NRCG
meeting on November 2. Need more agency administrative support for fire staffs.
o Hotshots gave a presentation.
o Supplemental food stuff was discussed in regards to promoting more dried and
freeze-dried food.
o Talk of Core Season for fire teams of May 1 to October 15 each year with
remaining portion of year on a rotation basis.
Thursday, October 28
Contractor/MOU Update (Tim Murphy)----------------------------------------------8-10:00
o NR Strategic Plan for Private Fire Service Suppression Contracting
-Listed many facts about contractor statistics (See “What’s Your contractor
Liaison Done for your $$$)
-Less than 50% of all contractors belong to a Contractor’s Association
-Mt. DNRC’s legislative audit will have findings in January.
-Strategic Plan is due out for the fire season of 2006
-The MRCG Contractors’ website will be updated
o Self Certification: will be phased out
-No self-certification in 2005
o Training Provider MOU –2005 Audits
o Each Zone will audit at least one session of each MOU training provider
within their Zone
- MOU holders Training & Records to include PTB’s, Course
certificates and WCT Record
- MT DNRC, MSFCA, & MFWA audit Fire Dept. Certifications
Process as needed
- NRCG Training Committee audits Federal & State Agency
Certification Process as needed
o Guidelines for approval/denial of Training Provider MOU’s:
o A detailed draft handout on these guidelines is available through Tim
Murphy
o Causes for De-certification:
- Contractor/employee does not meet currency requirements in 3101
- An employee/contractor voluntarily surrenders the certification of
qualifications or requests to be qualified at a lower level of
responsibility.
- Employee/contractor performs actions that violate recognized
standard operational procedures or identified safety procedures that
are determined to have been instrumental in the endangerment of
fire management personnel or the public.
- Committee agreed to have Tim move forward with the
certification/re-certification/de-certification draft he passed out.
LEO Documentation Needs (Jackie Fischer)-----------------------------------------11-1145
• Talked about the importance and obligation of getting the original red card
as identification of contractors
• Jackie recommended that the red cards (qualification cards) have a photo
ID on them or that we ask for one at check in.
• We have the right to insist on original red cards to ensure against fraud or
to seize a red card if we need to, then call the LEO.
• Jackie discussed cases where fraud was involved and gave some examples
of how to avoid it, as above
NWCG-TWT Report (Mike Kopitzke, DNRC)-----------------------------------1245-1330
o PMS 310-1 revision should be final by January 1, 2006
o Courses that will be offered were shared
o Further information on the TWT meeting can be found in the Draft
notes of the TWT/IOSWT Meeting in Tucson, AZ, October 19-21,
2004
o Frank Waterman will forward 310-1 updates and IOSTWT notes to
everyone on the training committee when Mike gets them to him.
NIMS (Bob Cunningham)-------------------------------------------------------------1330-1400
o Gave a short presentation on the National Incident Management
System and how the Homeland Security is making use of it
Introduction of New Training Committee Chair, Frank Waterman---------1400-1415
o Frank will request input for next meeting with adequate time for
responders