“Untold Stories: Histories of People of Color in Oregon”
U-Engage ALS 199 Fall 2014
OSU Faculty/Staff Oral History Project
Date: November 14, 2014
Location: Corvallis, OR
Length: 00:39:31
Interviewee: Urmila Mali
Interviewers: Emilee Boyd, Jessica Tafoya, and Lauren Kimura
Transcribers: U-Engage Student and Avery Sorensen
[00:00:00]
JT: Our names are Jessica Tafoya and Emily Boyd. We are students in Oregon State
University’s U-Engage class, “Untold Stories, People of Color in Oregon.” Today’s date
is November 14th 2014, and we are conducting an oral history interview with Urmila
Mali.
EB: Please state your name and spell it out loud.
UM: So my name is Urmila Mali, it’s U-R-M-I-L-A, and my last name is M-A-L-I.
JT: What is your birthdate and birthplace?
UM: My birthdate is November 3rd, 1969 and birthplace is Kathmandu, Nepal.
EB: With which ethnic or cultural backgrounds do you identify?
UM: So I am--depending on who I’m talking to, so I’ll normally say Asian, but my
ethnicity is Napoli and my background is Newari, which is my mother tongue as well.
JT: When and where were your parents born, and what are their backgrounds?
UM: So, my mom and dad both are Newari, they were both born in Kathmandu, Nepal.
My dad was born in late ‘20s, and my mom was born in late ‘30s.
EB: Where did you grow up and where were you raised?
UM: So, I was born in Nepal, but I was raised in Tillamook, Oregon. So, I moved here in
U.S. in 1979 and started school in Tillamook starting 4th grade and graduated from
there.
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JT: What was your transition from high school to college?
UM: For me the transition was, I was actually looking forward to coming to OSU
because, being in Tillamook, which was very white farming town, small, I was ready to
leave because of the some of the racism I experienced there. So coming to OSU was like
a--I just looked forward to it; it was a huge change. Diversity in terms of international
students, which I related to at that time because I came in as an international student.
So, for me, it was a great transition.
EB: So you attended school here at Oregon State, what did you study?
UM: I--my undergrad was in broadcast communication and my Masters was in MAIS,
which is, Masters of Art in Interdisciplinary Studies with focus in anthropology, women
studies.
JT: That’s awesome.
UM: Thanks.
JT: Who were or who are your mentors, personal mentors and professional mentors?
UM: Personally, I would say, I have a large family so my sisters--five of my sisters and
my brother. Professionally, I would say, recent are my coworkers from EOP, which
includes Janet, Marilyn, Janet Nishihara and Marilyn Stewart. And then while going to
school, it would be Dr. Lani Roberts Dr. Janet Lee were some of my mentors and people
that I looked up to.
EB: So, what year did you come to OSU, and what was one of the biggest reasons why
you came?
UM: I came to OSU in 1987. The two biggest reasons would be, first, my sister was
going to school here, so I just followed her footstep. The other was I had a full ride
tuition, everything paid for, so I couldn’t argue with that.
EB: Why not? [laughter]
JT: What were your first impressions of the University and of the Corvallis community?
UM: So, during--when I came, I, as an undergrad, I didn’t really venture out to the
community. And, as you can imagine in 1987, the town was nothing near what we have
here in terms of, you know, the restaurants to shopping areas and all, so we really
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stayed within the campus and then maybe ventured out into Monroe. But, in terms of
the campus, and again, at that time, I thought it was really large, but comparison to
now, it was, you would say, it was a very small--you know, under 10,000 student
population. So for me, living on campus, I really connected with students, very diverse
student population. So that was my--coming from Tillamook where there wasn’t as
many students of color or community of color, so that was my thing when I came in
here was making that connection. So I really got involved with international student
organizations as well as really making sure as I’m picking roommates and all, that it
was somebody of color because that’s where I gravitated towards after being in
Tillamook from 1979 to ‘87, that’s what I was missing
[00:05:24]
EB: So, you came to OSU in ‘87, and have you been here since then, or how long have
you been with OSU?
UM: I have. I did my undergrad; it took me a little over four years and right after that I,
you know. And then within a Christmas break, I decided that I wanted to do my
Masters, which is not a recommended thing for anybody. So that’s when I decided to go
ahead and apply for Masters. And then, so soon as I finish my fall, my last course in fall
for undergrad, then I just went in, transitioned into my Master’s program. And part of
the reason for that was because I was an--as an undergrad international student, so,
soon as I had finished my undergrad, I would have had 90, three months to being able
to stay within U.S. to see if I could find internship and then change my visa into work
status visa and then--but because, even though I was international student, I grew up
here. So even though I had my cultural heritage, I was still, you now, brought up with
the western teachings and, you know, my lifestyle and all of that was, I would say, forty
percent, you know, keeping up with my cultures and all of that, but sixty percent of
what any normal western, you know, kid growing up in this society would do. So I
wasn’t sure because all of my family was here, so going home and not knowing how I
would start there. So I just transitioned into--again, it was like a last minute spur-of-themoment of wanting to do my grad work. And, as I said, I wouldn’t recommend that to
anybody, but I had the connections and contacts such as Lani Roberts, Janet, you know,
Janet as well as Doctor Lee who were there to really assist me in being able to process
the paperwork and start my Masters within, you know, within a few weeks.
JT: What is your current position?
UM: Currently I am a co-acting director for Educational Opportunities Program, but,
and that will be for a year, and then I will transition back into my academic counseling
position with EOP.
ALS 199 “Untold Stories” Fall 2014 Oral History Project ~ Urmila Mali ~ November 14, 2014
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EB: Have you held any other positions within OSU?
UM: Professionally, I have been with EOP since 1995 as a graduate student for a year,
and then as a professional staff. But other jobs as a GTA, I have worked with women’s
studies and then as well as EOP and with Housing.
JT: Please describe your job duties.
UM: So, as an academic counselor within EOP, we work with non-traditional students,
which it captures under the umbrella of students of color, low income, single parents, so
it’s a wide gamut that fits under the non-traditional. So for us, when students come into
campus and they feel like they can benefit from our program, they join our program
and for the first year, at least for the first term, they’re required to meet with us every
other week for the academic counseling portion. So we work with them in helping
students navigate really the, you know, the university system anywhere from being
aware of the resources that’s available for the students, to how do you manage your
time, you know, giving them the skills and resources that they need to be able to build
that solid foundation, you know, for the first term. So we are--and really holding them
accountable too. So, talking to them from, you know, why aren’t you going to classes,
what are things that’s preventing you from doing well in this class, and how can we
find resources so you’re successful. So we’re meeting with students on a regular basis
and talking about, besides academic, you know, what are other things that may
influence or affect in you not being a successful student on campus?
EB: So you’ve mentioned a few people that are important to you here at OSU, who are a
few more in terms of your work and your position?
UM: I think for EOP it’s a very unique office in terms of, I think, our office is probably
more diverse than most of the offices.
[00:09:58]
So we have, you know, majority of faculty of color that works there, and so it’s been a
really great support within that unit—so, being able to work together, being able to just- the word’s going blank on me - but, if you’re needing to vent, if you need to just
brainstorm, and being able to have that support so you’re not feeling like you’re the
only person of color in that office and feel like you don’t have that support. So it’s
really—and being that I’ve been there since 1995, that’s been my, I guess, a rock I would
say. And being able to, you know, know that they have my back and they’ll support me
as well as I support them as well, and having that safe space to being able to talk about
different topics and different issues that comes across, and know that it stays within
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those walls, and being able to help one-another and support. So, I would say that’s been
my biggest in terms of my work. But also, on campus I build a relationship with
different offices and different staff and faculty. So know that, you know, they’re just a
phone call away in terms of talking or interacting or just getting support, you know-and different levels of support that you need. And I know that I’ve built enough
relationships to being able to do that.
JT: How have you seen the OSU community change over time in terms of diversity and
inclusion?
UM: I think, since I’ve been here since 1995, 1987, excuse me, I think at that time--I think
that OSU has come a long way since then because, at that time, it was the start of, you
know, in the early 90’s was when they just started the APCC, Asian Pacific Cultural
Center, and some of the other initiative that was coming. So, and in terms of resources
too, I would say there was very limited resources in terms of for students. So what that
means is, for example, for math. If you’re taking math class during that time, the only
help sessions you would have is within the math lab in Kidder, and that’s when you
would go for help. So that, if you just translate that into now, what, 20 some years later,
you know, there was different, like, instructional, supplemental instruction, the tutoring
that’s available within cultural centers as well as in the library. So, just the services
themselves, I think, has, you know, times a hundred I would say, in terms of what’s
provided for students. And, I think the opportunities that students have; I think there’s
more opportunities for students to be able to be involved on campus--as I said, you
know, there’s seven cultural centers that’s available for students now. And, I think in
terms of services, I think there’s a lot more, and it’s a lot more--students are more aware
of it compared to when I was a student.
EB: Are there any events, initiatives, or programs that particularly stand out to you
when you think about the Corvallis community and the OSU community as it’s
changed over time with diversity?
UM: So, when I was a, when I was a student, you know, there was a couple racial
incident that took place that occurred on campus, which created an office. And because
of the student voice and meetings and demonstrations that brought on the office, at that
time it was Minority Education Office, which is now ISS, so that was a huge, you know,
change that students were able to bring up on the campus. And I think--and then as
well as the start of the various other cultural centers, I think that has been--and I think
one of things that shows is with, you know, students coming together and having that
voice and giving that voice and talking to the administrators, that the changes have
come through. So as a student, I think that--and as a start of my, you know, career that
was, I would say, was, like, a huge initiative. And I think that, that has created, in terms
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of having that voice for students--and as you can, you know, see, there’s different
initiatives that’s coming across, and I think a lot of that has contributed to, you know,
students working together and students voicing those concerns in what is needed for
them to be supported on campus as well as supported within classrooms and being able
to have administrators that are actually, not only listening to them, but actually hearing
and making those changes.
JT: What do you see as the OSU’s role supporting faculty and staff of color as well as
students of color?
[00:15:00]
UM: So, with OSU, you know, as we hear constantly, we are on the steps of recruiting
more diverse students of color or as well as faculty of color on campus. So I think part
of it is, while we’re recruiting them, we really need to be able to provide that safe,
positive, and nurturing environment because I think, being here for so long, I think one
of the things I’ve noticed, you know, Corvallis is very unique place of its own. And then
within that, the Corvallis, the OSU community is unique in and of its own. So, when
you’re bringing in faculty of color and students, you know, they’re coming, but then
there isn’t that, particularly for faculties of color, there isn’t that place for them to
interact and meet other faculties of color and then being able to know that I’m not the
only one. And, most of the time, that’s what it is, they’re the only ones in that unit that
looks like them or, you know, and they’re coming from big cities or different place, so
it’s a very shock once you’re here and spend time because Corvallis is, I think, a very
family centered town. So I think as a university and as administrators within those
units, need to take a responsibility in making sure that they’re being connected to other
staff, other people, who can support them and mentor them. And then, same thing with
students too because, I think, it needs to be, you know, not only recruiting. The students
may be coming here because of a lot of the innovative things that our university is
doing, but being able to provide the resources, the mentoring, and the services for the
students so that they’re successful as all. Because, again not just recruiting them and
bringing them on campus, and once they’re here, you know, then what? So you may
have said all the great and wonderful things to faculty and students while they’re
recruiting, but once you're here, are you following through on all of the things that you
were saying and what responsibility are we taking in making sure that they're staying
and that they’re not feeling like they are by themselves? So, being able to really provide
that nurturing environment so they’re flourishing.
EB: What do you see as your role in supporting faculty, staff, and students of color?
ALS 199 “Untold Stories” Fall 2014 Oral History Project ~ Urmila Mali ~ November 14, 2014
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UM: So, I would say, I think for me, as my role as I'm meeting faculties, providing that
space where they can come in and talk, providing that, whatever role they see me -whether as a mentor, as a friend, as a colleague. So for me, really being able to say, “I'm
here if you need to talk,” you know, reaching out, and then just being able to have that
space where they can talk and know that, you know, if you’re frustrated, if you just
need to vent, or you just need to share ideas, that I’m here, it’s confidential, and that,
you know, you have a friend or colleague that’s going to be here for you to support you.
For students--and we work with quite a few students of color too—is, same thing. But,
you know, being able to know that you are in an environment that’s safe, so I’m there to
support you. And now, I may, you know, ask you questions and whatnot, but at the
end of it, that you have someone who’s going to support you and be able to connect you
to the resources. And, I think, that’s the most important thing, whether you’re a faculty
of color or students of color that’s what you want to know. It’s like, you know, is there
some place I can go where I feel safe, where I can feel like I’m being heard, and then is
there somebody who’s gonna help me connect me to the resources that is available on
campus?
JT: In addition to the nurturing environment, are there any recommendations that you
have for OSU to become a more inclusive campus?
UM: Well, as our OSU mission states, that, you know, we are, we value diversity, right.
So I think—and OSU, I think, has started, just recently I'm thinking about, started on the
road of demonstrating campus inclusivity, for example of the Halsell Hall, which has a
gender inclusive housing. And I think in order to be more inclusive on campus, you
know, they have created, like, gender, women and gender equity office, office of
community and diversity, creating faculty diversity. So I think moving beyond that is of
saying, okay, we’ve created these offices, what, continue to take those steps in making
those changes because I think--and the only way I can describe that is saying walking
your talk, right?
[00:20:03]
Because being able to not only create these offices, but what is it that we’re doing next.
So, being really transparent about the steps we’re taking to make these changes because
I think, a lot of times, we have -- when incident occurs or something happens, you
know, we talk about, we all get together and we talk about these are the things we need
to put in places, these are the initiatives we’re gonna start. But after that, it feels like,
just, that’s where it is, right. So, being able to really say, okay these are the things,
changes that’s happening. And then, I think for students, having that where it’s very
transparent is going to show that okay, university cares about me, these are the steps
that’s going on—taking place, and these are the things that is how we’re moving
ALS 199 “Untold Stories” Fall 2014 Oral History Project ~ Urmila Mali ~ November 14, 2014
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forward. And I think that’s really important in showing that, not just saying we’re, you
know, inclusive campus or a community, but now being—and then putting these
initiatives in place but now, what is it, what’s the next step we’re taking.
EB: And where do you see that next step going?
UM: Ah, I think, again, you know, the university is doing great job in providing the
support and providing the resources and then recruiting all students, but students of
color as well as faculty of color. So I think next step for me I see as really continue to
build on that. You know, what does that mean in terms of when students are on campus
and how are we really demonstrating that we’re inclusive, how are we showing,
whether within classroom, housing, offices? So if a student just goes to an office to ask a
question, is that person being inclusive in terms of the way their--simple as were they
greeted, to the way they’re, you know, their questions being heard. So, part of that is, I
think I would say, training, right, within offices and departments and programs. Part of
it is really saying, again, you know, yes we’re saying that we’re inclusive, but continue
to doing more in demonstrating that because, I think, we can’t just do one thing of
saying, okay we’re gender inclusive housing in Halsell, but so, what’s the next step and
how does that look and who buy-in from all university faculties and staff. Because,
again, it’s not just about Housing’s responsibility or it’s not just about EOP’s
responsibility or, you know, a certain office or a space, but over all of do all OSU’s staff
employees understand what that means and what part am I taking in demonstrating
that this campus is inclusive of all students and all staff. So I think the next step would
be in making sure that there’s a buy-in from everybody.
JT: What are some of the issues of importance with respect to people of color that the
community is facing?
UM: I think biggest part I would say is, um, the type of support their getting on
campus. So again, I think it goes back to, you know, there are certain offices, certain
programs that students of color feel comfortable and safe going knowing that, you
know, I can go to EOP or I can go to cultural centers, ISS--and I know there’s many
other offices where they may feel comfortable going and getting the support and the
resources they need. And I think part of it is, I think, for students, really feeling that
support, and support that they need, so they’re able to be successful—a successful
student on campus because I think part of it is, you know, if we’re not providing that
support, it’s gonna affect students in terms of how their performing in classroom as is
outside of classroom. So, because I think there’s different issues in all that plays into,
but I think the important part when students come in, I would say is what kind of
support are we providing? And, you know, and again, being really aware of are we
welcoming? Because sometimes students feel, when they go to particular offices,
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particular departments, they don’t feel welcome. So again, looking at our individuals
behaviors of how we are treating that student and talking to that student or, and how
we’re providing that and what message are we giving that student.
[00:25:06]
EB: So I see that you’ve done some work with the Nepalese Association of Oregon and
was wondering if you could maybe talk about what that is and what kind of work you
do with them?
UM: So, Nepali Association of Oregon, it was created--and I was actually in, when we
first created that association a while back, I was part of that because when we first,
actually, when we first came, my family came, we, there was a very, like a, less than 25
people in the community within Portland. And so, when there was a cultural gettogether and gatherings, we could do at somebody’s home in Portland. But, as the
community grew--whether it’s students coming to universities or community members
coming for jobs--so the community grew really large so it was impossible to have one
home host these events. So, and events are from, you know, our New Year’s
celebrations to the different celebrations that we have. So, that is why—one of the
reasons why—we’re like, let’s create a Nepalese Association of Oregon. And that is,
basically, of, you know, it’s a membership base. And we create, we, association
organizes three different events in a year—so it’s a summer picnic, we do some cultural
events and shows, and then couple different celebration events during fall term, fall
term. And then--so part of it is really a place for community members to come together
and gather as well as one of the things we’ve been really been able to do is in month of
November--end of month right after Thanksgiving--we bring all of the high school
students together, Nepalese high school students together. And then really talk to them
about process of applying for college—what are the expectations of being a college
students, you know, talking about financial aid, to applying for scholarships, to really
what is it that you would be expected to do in college. And then we also created a
scholarship for, to give to one of the graduating seniors. So it’s been really great in
terms of—also if there’s other Nepalese students that are planning to come to Oregon,
they’re able to find us through this association and be able to make connections so that
we’re able to, from hosting a student or a community member for a few days until they
find housing to being able to provide some of the resources that’s available in Oregon.
So, yeah, so it’s been a great association, and it’s growing. I think we have over 500
community members. And then, we also make connections with the association in
Washington as well as Vancouver, Canada, and, once a year, one of us takes turn
hosting a summer event.
JT: What did Color of Fear look like back in May of 1996? And, um, how has that
impacted OSU since?
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UM: So, Color of Fear at that time, I think, the documentary--and then, I know Lee Mun
Wah who was a creator of this had come on campus at that time. Even though, you
know, we talk about the issues of racism and what everybody, you know, individuals
are experiencing, this really, I think, kind of, at that time, opened an awareness for a lot
of the OSU community members because I think, you know, just, being able to watch
that video where there was five gentlemen who were talking about their experience,
right. And actually, it was a retreat that they had gone through with him—having him
come here to do that, showing us that documentary, and then being able to then
actually hear community members, and then OSU community members--whether
they’re students or faculty--sharing their experience, I think, it just really brings it home
for a lot of the people. Because, I think, sometimes, you know, you may watch a
documentary and most of the people are from back East or whatnot, so you can’t really
personalize it or being aware, like you know, something like this is happening in
Corvallis, you know, students and faculty are experiencing racism, prejudice. So this, at
that time, really, I think, opened up a lot of eyes and opened up doors in seeing that this
is what’s going on within our community and not saying that, you know, no that’s not
happening. You know, we have a very safe, welcoming environment—but it was
happening.
[00:30:07]
So, I think this really brought in the light of being able to say that, you know, there’s
racism in Corvallis, there’s racism within OSU, but how, what do we do in the moving
forward in dealing with that? So I think that if it is brought in now, I think it will be
very different versus then because, at that time, we had it in the MU, you know MU
ballroom. And then, there was a group of us who was able to do some workshop,
personal workshop, with him--a few of us faculties of color. Again, it’s really about
unpacking, you know. Because for faculties being able to unpack the experiences
they’ve had, and then being able to move forward so that we’re able to make positive
impacts with students who are experiencing that as well.
EB: What were some of your challenges and how did you strive to overcome them?
UM: So, when I first started working, my biggest challenge was being the youngest in
the meetings--and you know, whether its committees that I’m a part of or in meeting. So
being able to be there as one of the younger faculty, among faculty who are tenure-track
or who’ve been there for long time who, maybe, are set in their ways of their beliefs or
ways they think they should be doing things. So that was the biggest challenge of being
heard, I think, and again, part of it is where I learned. And how to move beyond that
was, you know, sitting, listening, lot of times just listening and taking notes, and then
slowly interjecting, you know, sentence or two. Not coming across like I know it all, but
really being able to show that I may be young, but there’s some ideas and some things
ALS 199 “Untold Stories” Fall 2014 Oral History Project ~ Urmila Mali ~ November 14, 2014
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that I can contribute to this meeting. So I think that was the biggest challenge then. And
now, I think, sometimes some of the challenges are within meetings and all, is, you
know, keeping the momentum going. Because sometimes we’re so busy with
committees and meetings and all and we’re juggling so much that sometimes we, you
know, we forget to really say what are our goals, how do we move forward? So I think
trying to keeping momentum going, not only for myself but as a committee, as a group.
So, and that’s, sometimes, that’s challenging—and trying to balance it all.
JT: What would you say are some of your greatest accomplishments?
UM: I wouldn’t—I think my greatest accomplishments comes in on a daily basis.
Because, I think, part of it is, you know with students, it’s like even a little step that
student takes while I meet with students and talk about different strategies and
different success that you need in order to be a successful students, sometimes--you
know, as little as when I actually see that they’re using time management, for me, that’s
a success, you know. That’s a great achievement because, again, it’s not at the end of the
year, end of the term, I’m saying these are my greatest achievements. Sometimes a
student, you know, we’ve had a conversation—I’ve had a conversation with student,
and then I get a message saying, “Okay, I got it.” So being able to say—to me, those are
the greatest accomplishments. So, it’s not a one big thing. If I have to choose one big
thing, then it’s a, you know, student graduating and being able to see that they have,
you know, reached their goal. For me, I think it comes in just small doses. There’s weeks
where I may feel like, okay did I do anything in contributing and making a difference in
student’s life? But the other times, just a small message or they’re just coming by and
saying, okay I understand why you keep telling me to use time management or why
you keep telling me to go see my academic advisor. And when they have that “ah-ha”
moment--and again, that may come end of the term, in two years down the road, or
four years down the road, but that’s my accomplishment. And, recently I actually, not
too long ago, I actually got an email from one of my students that I taught long time ago
and worked with, and she was saying, you know, the job that she has now, she’s like, I
am so glad I took math as a study class with you because everything you taught me, I
didn’t use it, you know, during that term or during that year, but now I’m recalling it,
and I see how this is important in the job that I’m doing. So again, you know, that’s
making a difference, and that’s an accomplishment.
[00:35:11]
EB: So, we’re doing really really well on time, so I’m just going to leave this last part
open to you, if there’s anything that we’ve not discussed or something that you want to
give more information about regarding something we already have discussed?
ALS 199 “Untold Stories” Fall 2014 Oral History Project ~ Urmila Mali ~ November 14, 2014
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UM: You know, I think, I would say in terms of—I really believe that in terms of, you
know, when we’re recruiting faculties of colors or students of color on campus, really
making sure that we are providing the resource services for, again, students to be
successful or flourishing. Because, I think, again, being here for so long, I have really
seen a lot of the faculties leave--whether it’s not the right fit or whether they’re feeling
like they’re not getting the support that they need. So, one of the things I think in exit
interviews with faculties of color, just see, okay what are the reasons you left, what
would have kept you here? So being able to do that—because I think if we don’t know,
we’re not going to be able to make the changes. We can assume and continue, but I
don’t think we’ll be able to make the changes that is needed so that we can, you know,
be able to, not only just recruit but be able to retain these faculties of color. Because,
again, we’re also recruiting students of color on campus, but if there isn’t that
connection where we can make, you know, with students--whether it’s, again,
mentoring or just being able to be in class with faculties of color in various different
areas of, you know, curriculum--if we don’t have that, then it’s not, I think it’s a moot
point in saying we have these resources but we haven’t done much. So again, I bring it
back to saying, you know, walking the talk then being able to not only say come on over
we have this, but then really being able to demonstrate how we have this. So I think, for
me, that is--for me, the resource of providing that support and providing that nurturing
space for faculties to be able to, and students, to be able to flourish, I think that’s really,
really important.
JT: What kind of things have you seen faculty members leave for?
UM: I think a lot of times, sometimes, it may be just the support within, or feeling like
I’m the only one within that department. Yeah.
EB: So it’s been very important to make sure that you have that support within your
office?
UM: Yeah. I think that’s one of the things that keeps me here, having that support, and
having that foundation that’s set within our program to being able to—I mean, most of
us, we’ve been, you know, over 20 years. This is my 20 years, yeah. And I think one
other thing has been that support and that area where I, you know, I know that I have
that support and being able to do my work. Because one of the things I’ve always said
is, you know, if I get up when I wake up and I’m dreading going to work, then it’s time
to change. And that has always been my rule when I first started my job, you know. I
said, I never thought I would be here in this job for this long, you know. I thought this
would be my transition into then going to Portland or a bigger city doing something
different. But so, I kept that as a rule of saying, you know, if I get up in the morning—
whether it’s a beautiful, sunny day or snowing—and I just wake up and I dread—you
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know, like, God, I don’t want to go to work or I’m really dreading, then it’s time to
change. Because again, that means I’m not going to be affective academic counsellor or
active director for this program. Because, you know, I’m not giving my 110% to
providing that resources services to students. And I share that with students too,
saying, you know, then it’s time to make changes. And I haven’t woken up and said
that yet.
EB: Well, we’re glad you’re here at OSU. If you have nothing else to touch on, then I
think we can leave it here. Yeah, thank you so much.
UM: Thank you.
[end of interview 00:39:31]
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