Room 203
JO WICKES:
Good morning, everybody. Welcome to the Capacity Building and Self-Management session for today, or the first one for today. This morning we are focusing on tools and technology for accessing services and support.
My name is Jo Wickes and I am the director of engagement and funding for DisabilityCare Australia in South Australia and so I’m gonna be chairing the sessions today.
I’d like to remind you all just to switch your mobile phone off or switch it to silent please before our speakers start. And some housekeeping. If you go out the doors and directly around to the left, you will find the toilets. If the evacuation alarms sound, we will remain in the room and the fire wardens will come and assist us all to evacuate. I just want to remind everybody that this session is being recorded and filmed, and, within the... the next couple of weeks, all of the session filming will be available on the DisabilityCare Australia website and also further information about all of the
Practical Design Fund projects will be available on that website too.
Today, our format is we have three presentations for all of you and that will be followed by 15 minutes of question and answer time. We’ll have some roving microphones, so if you would like to ask a question just raise your hand and we will get to you as soon as possible.
Right. So, it is my job now to introduce our first speaker and that is Cameron Murdoch and he is from Latrobe Community Health Services.
(Applause)
CAMERON MURDOCH:
OK. As... Thanks, Jo. As... as Jo said, my name’s Cameron Murdoch and I’m a senior project officer with Latrobe Community Health Services.
A little bit about Latrobe Community Health Services. We’re a service provider in the Gippsland region of Victoria, and I’ve noticed at this conference not everyone knows where Gippsland is. So I can describe us as basically the area east of Melbourne between the Great Dividing Range and the sea, and we’re home to about... I think about a quarter of a million people.
Latrobe Community Health provides a range of services such as aged care services, general practitioners, dental and, of course, services to people with disabilities.
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Our project’s been called ‘Plan Your Care’, and ‘Plan Your Care’ is a website which is obviously is funded through the Practical Design Fund and it actually has two sections. So it has, like, what we... just an open... open area non-secure section that provides information on services available to people with disability and also a secure section where clients of a service can access their own portal and information and actually log in and see it, and as we go through I’ll show you some screenshots and just basically how all that works as well. I’ll just press that again.
So, why’d we develop it? Because, at the moment, we realise that people with disability need to rely on information to be provided to them rather than having all that information actually ready at hand and basically how to log in and actually get their information. And also because information is power, so the more information people with disabilities have the more power they have in making decisions in their care and also in their life.
So, what ‘Plan Your Care’ enables is a better way for prospective and current clients to access information on our services, so through the non-secure section. Our current clients receive personal information pertaining to them. Our current clients and staff, another mode of communication so they can use the portal to communicate to each other. It enables clients to source care, equipment and respite, store vital documents pertaining the information related to their care. So through the... the log-in section, people can actually upload documents and... and actually view them and share them between themselves. Clients to budget their own care within the frameworks of their allocated budget, and I’ll show some screenshots of that, and email and book disability-specific services.
So, how we developed it, we’ve actually worked on the build of the site with our developer, Salsa
Digital, so I, myself, I’m not a computer specialist or anything like that. My background is in... in managing disability services, so we had to get a developer on board to actually do that with us. And we’ve also had a couple of partners as well, so Melba Support Services at Mount Evelyn here in
Melbourne and also Statewide Autistic Services in Seaford have worked with us in the development of that... of this site as well.
We’ve also undertaken extensive focus group and user testing with the site along the way as well. So we’ve done that with person with disability, their carers and also workers who support people with disabilities as well to test the usability of the site, and we’ve run two extensive focus groups which we had about 20-odd people at each to make sure that it was functional and... and workable for people.
So, now I’m gonna go into some slides and just show you how some of the functions work and just how it looks. I was playing with the idea of actually using a... a video or actually using the site but I thought it might be easier just to use screenshots because that way I know it’ll all work nice and easily.
So, first of all, to the... what we call the Non-Secure section. So, basically, the Non-Secure section’s just a place where people can log onto and it’s just like a normal website for... for any organisation so it’s got... you know, it’s easy to use and bright homepage. You’ll notice that the... the picture there... yeah, the picture that’s there with the guy in the wheelchair actually go... you can actually transition into other... other pictures and also other messages and stuff as well to advertise what’s going on.
You’ll notice that it’s like most webpages. It’s got an About section which tells people about what the website is, a News section which can be for used for general information on what the... news for the... for the agency who’s hosting it, any events the agency might have coming up. And then we get into the Our Services section which is basically... well, provides information on the services offered
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through the disability provider. ‘Plan Your Care’ is the log-in to what I’ll... the Secure section which
I’ll show some stuff on soon. And also the Resources is information on other... other services that might be useful to people with disabilities and their carers.
So, this is just some screenshots of the Non-Secure section. So it just basically gives some information on our services that are offered through disability services and just a link to a brochure.
Some of the feedback we’ve had is around that we need to have more pictures and that on the site, so we’re in the process of doing that at the moment but I’ve found it quite time consuming so we’ll... we’ll keep working on that.
We also have, on the... this area is basically some, what we call, Smart Forms, so if people are surfing through the site they can send a query into... into us to say, you know, “I’ve seen... seen this information on this service and I’d like to make some contact,” or... and it also provides some information on our phone number and also our email address if people want to. And also, as I said, some links to other services, and there are some of the pictures but we’ll make them a bit more exciting as we go along as well.
So, to the Secure section. So, basically, the first part is that people can log in to a... a secure part with a... So, basically what happens is we, or the... the disability provider, would register their email address and basically then the... the person can actually then log in and generate a password for themselves.
After they log in, there’s a bit of a tutorial just to say that they’ve logged in and just to note that the... the menu on the website’s actually changed, and provide some information about what each of the... the functions on the website does. It also has the name of the person at the top which is mainly there for people from an agency, so people from Latrobe Community Health, cos when they log in they come into a different screen which basically has a list of all the clients who they’re working with and then, when they go into that, that person’s name appears at the top so that they can see it from the staff perspective instead of the client perspective.
So, basically, the first thing we’ve got here around the Secure section is what we call the Service
Request which is under the Service Enquiry tab at the top, and through this people can make a request to actually receive a service through... through the provider. So, in this case, the person’s up to Step 3, and they’ve already done Step 1 and chosen individual support at home, and they’re up to the point where they’re actually looking at what time they’d want the service, what days they’d like the service and also whether or not there’s any re-occurrence. And once they do that and they hit the send button at the bottom, that sends an automated email through to their... through to their staff member or the contact at the agency to then action it.
So, when people have done a few of those service requests, it appears on what we call the My
Services section. And you’ll notice there there’s a number of services that are there with different service statuses. So we’ve got the second line from the end. So we’ve got Approved, Cancelled,
Pending and Requested. So Requested means that someone’s requested a new service who’s a client and they’ve requested that a service occur. Pending means that it’s been acknowledged by the worker at the organisation. Approved means that it’s all organised and it will go ahead. And
Cancelled obviously means that the service was requested at some point and now it’s been cancelled.
The My Services section also puts everything into a date order, and we’re putting in some of our own money to actually change it so that we can look at... so people can view services in different ways. So, maybe just a type of service rather than having everything listed in date order.
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People, when they log in, can obviously see their own details as well, so their own personal details, and update those to make sure that, you know, that we as the agency are all up to date with all their contact details.
(Bell rings)
CAMERON MURDOCH:
And with the My Calculator section, which has been the most difficult, people can actually put in their actual total budget and then actually play around with their... with what services they’d like to get to see if that actually is affordable within their budget that they might have at the current time.
And then, basically... and then send that through to their... to the worker at the agency to look at.
So, on the right-hand side, there’s a bit of capacity to send an email to the worker, to export it to a
PDF and also export it into an Excel spreadsheet. And when the... and the rates that come up are the rates that are the standard rates that are used in Victoria for each service, so, if someone requests an hour of personal care, it’s currently calculated at the Department of Human Services rate in
Victoria but that can be changed by the service provider if they have their own rates.
To help people out, we’ve got a Secure section... in the Secure section, we’ve got a tutorial which steps through each... each step of the... of the... of the pages and so people can learn how to do that through the tutorial. And a bit of the feedback we’ve had as well is that the tutorial buttons aren’t that easy to find so we’re just doing a quick fix on that to make sure that’s nice and easy.
As I said earlier, people have the capacity to upload files onto the site and also see information on their... on their... on their care manager or their contact person at the agency so that they can make contact with them.
And we’ve also putting in a... well, obviously, we’ve put in a few tools to help people with, you know, so, a contrasting tool and also BrowseAloud which actually reads the website to people as well as enlarging and decreasing the size of text. And that’s it from me. So, thank you.
(Applause)
JO WICKES:
Thank you, Cameron. Now I’d like to introduce Robbie Williams who is here from JFA Purple Orange in South Australia.
(Applause)
ROBBIE WILLIAMS:
I’ve set my timer cos 10 minutes just isn’t long enough, so I’ve got my clock on and it’ll ding me before you guys ding, I reckon. So, thanks for the opportunity and I’d like to pay my respects to the
Aboriginal people of this land and their ancestors.
An eMarket is basically like TripAdvisor or eBay or Gumtree, the idea that people can go to a particular site and use it as a jumping off point or a transaction point so you can get things done, people who have things to offer, people who have things they need or want. So, the idea of this project was to build a user specification. So we weren’t building the actual website. If you’ve tried to find eMarket online, it’s not there because this is a... a design project, not a build project.
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So, the goal of the project was to design a user blueprint for a multifunctional eMarket platform to assist people to exercise control and choice about their support options, and also, of course, to assist service agencies to communicate their offerings.
The methodology is co-designed. Now, for those of you who aren’t familiar with co-design, it’s a fancy, contemporary word to describe a very old idea which is that if you’re designing something for people to enjoy and if you involve those people in its design it’s likely to be better as a result. It’s not too breathtaking, is it? It sounds like it’s ancient wisdom but we’ve packaged it up as now something called co-design.
So, in this co-design methodology, we pooled a group together to guide the work of this project. It provided expert advice, guidance and helpful input in regards to developing that... that blueprint.
And it included a range of perspectives - people living with disability, family members, service providers, and we also called on people with IT experience. And the group met six times during the course of the project.
We ran a consultation, so... Qantas were delighted to see us, of course, cos we flew a fair bit. 21 consultations involving 270 people around Australia. And you can see the map shows those various locations, so we had reasonably good coverage.
We also ran an online survey as a supplement to those workshops. It carried similar material to what we covered in the workshops and gave people an opportunity to reflect on what they thought would be important for the... for an eMarket, and we had 103 respondents participate, so with the workshops and the survey we had nearly 300 people contribute to the design of the eMarket.
The key features. Now, this is a word cloud. It basically is one of these fancy free applications online that you can use to pick out the key messages or words from a survey or similar, so when we ran our survey results through the word cloud you can see the sorts of words and ideas that were important to people and the bigger the word the more often it featured. So you get an idea from that grab, the sort of things that were really important to people about an eMarket - information, making comments, getting help, searching, support, access and so on.
With the material, we identified there were four main themes for an eMarket and we called these
Find It, Share It, Buy It and Manage It.
So, Find It for consumers... There’s... I apologise to people with low or no vision here today because I can’t read out every word that’s on these next few slides cos we don’t have time. But, for example, one of the ideas was a “go to” website, not a “one-stop shop,” so people were clear that they didn’t want an eMarket platform to be the only place you go to on the internet to do stuff around disability support. But they wanted to... they thought it’d be helpful for it to be a... a jumping off point to go navigating elsewhere. And there was a grab there, a quote from one of the participants, “It’s very hard to find out what services are available. No one tells you what is available. With an NDIS eMarket, that information will be available for everyone.”
For Find It for agencies, the idea there was that agencies could use the eMarket as a connection back to their own website and we’ve seen this evidenced in other places like ‘shop4support’ which is an eMarket in the United Kingdom for the disability sector. And, also, agencies like the idea of being able to nominate key words that related to the work they did so that they’d be easier for someone browsing to find them.
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In terms of Share It, this is the idea of people being able to share their experiences online, and there are some tremendously potent examples of communities, of stakeholders, using online platforms to share their experiences, and I get very excited about this for the disability community. If you’re interested in an example, you’d go to the... you’d go to... online and there’s a website called
‘Patients Like Me’. And I know it’s got a health focus but don’t let that put you off. What it shows, in
‘Patients Like Me’, is a multifunctional platform that gives people a chance to share their personal experiences and what’s helpful and what’s not helpful, and it’s got so successful and content-rich that researchers and medical practitioners are increasingly using it as a source of reliable information.
So, we like the idea of... of people being able to use the eMarket platform to share their experiences and to offer feedback on services, bit like when you go to TripAdvisor and you rate that hotel you stayed at on... on a rating of one through five stars and can offer some comments. Now, it’s a sensitive issue because you’d like to think people would be sensible and fair about their feedback. So while people are enthusiastic about the idea of people sharing their experiences, people also felt the need to be a good moderation function on the site so that people stay fair, stay polite and stay helpful in their feedback.
For agencies, the idea came up of, for example, a forum feature where different agencies working on common issues can also share their experiences, whether it’s to do with direct service delivery issues or to do with workforce development issues and so on.
Then we move to Buy It, if it’ll flick for me. There we go. So, obviously, you know, an eMarket platform, just like eBay and so on, you can buy stuff there and so people found that attractive in terms of shopping around for... for products and services. But it was... people were clear that this isn’t the only way that you would transact your personal support, and, in fact, you probably wouldn’t just go ahead and... and strike a deal with a service agency based on the information on the website.
You’d do your own due diligence which would be to meet the agency, get a bit more of a sense of their values, get a sense about how they’ll work with you and so on. But people thought that the website would be a useful starting point to make that initial connection with a service agency.
And in terms of... Don’t know where I’m gonna point this. There we go. In terms of Buying It for agencies, again, it’s, you know, they saw the platform as... as a useful place to establish a strong marketing presence for their products and services.
And, finally, into Manage It for consumers, and we were... we were moved by some of the websites that we encountered overseas that offer eMarket platforms. The idea of people being able to use online tools for planning, developing a vision, personal budget management and so on, the idea of having those tools available online, potentially being able to upload the material that they’ve developed on with their DisabilityCare Australia planner and to take that into that online setting and to start modelling some of the possible things...
(Bell rings)
ROBBIE WILLIAMS:
...they might want to buy with their money, so that came up. And for agencies, the idea of being able to run E-commerce management tools.
So, that’s just a brief grab of those four main areas. Now, as you can imagine, access was really important and, pretty much, in every consultancy workshop we went to, people said it needs to be
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to the WCHE Standard 2.0, AAA; it’s gotta be the best practice-accessible platform. But, of course, access isn’t just around some of those fundamental core considerations.
It covers things like adaptive technology, download speed, digital outreach. So, where are people in community locations? Can they access the site if there isn’t good connectivity where they live? Will... will the site be compatible with older hardware that people might have? Is the site crafted in plain
English? Does it also take account of other language considerations like people from where English isn’t their first language? And also is the design of the site intuitive? Is it easy to navigate for people?
Does it work across a range of operating systems and applications? Is it cheap or free to access? And are there alternatives if people need those alternatives in place? And there were some other considerations to support access like training on how to use the site, how to get technical support, and frequently asked questions.
Where to from here? Well, some ideas around governance. We identified there were three main roles to stewardship. One was design-build-host, so who... who would be involved in technically building this platform. And we didn’t think they needed to have strong disability knowledge, they just needed to be really good at designing good... good website platforms. So that’s the idea of design, build and host, and we thought that DisabilityCare Australia could commission that. And then, separately, could commission or otherwise organise the bit that’s around manage and moderate, which is the content, so what material gets uploaded, how it gets moderated in terms of people’s feedback and so on.
And, finally, govern and evolve, so how is this... how does this stewardship happen for this eMarket platform that ensures that it does learn from the experiences of people using it and that its evolution is in line with the... with the needs and aspirations of people...
(Bell rings)
ROBBIE WILLIAMS:
...living with disability and their families.
And, finally, co-design and co-production. The idea that, whatever happens with an eMarket like this going forward, people living with disability and their families need to be involved in the decisions around the design of it and in how it’s run in terms of co-production.
So, we had some recommendations. I’ll go past the vision and the mission. Our recommendations were that the government should consider investing in an eMarket online marketplace, they should do that through a co-design methodology, and that it should be designed according to the designbuild-host, manage and moderate, govern and evolve. Thanks for your time.
(Applause)
JO WICKES:
Thank you. Our last presentation this morning, we have two presenters from Marillac Limited. We have Jody Punshon, who is the general manager, and John McKenna. John is a disability commentator and ISP advocate for VALID, and deputy chair of the E. W. Tipping Foundation, and also manages to fit in being a journalist and blogger. So, welcome, John and Jody.
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JODY PUNSHON:
Do you know how do I get to our slide? Just click? Oh, awesome. Well, thank you. First of all, I’d like to apologise for those who have actually come to this presentation thinking that we’d developed an app. Unfortunately, with the Practical Design Fund and the limited time and funding, we found that that was not gonna be the case. We had some issues with licensing and also - thank you - and just the practicalities around that. So, what we decided with the group that was involved was to actually develop a website called ‘My Direct Support’ which gives information to people wishing to have... be employers of their own support workers, and support workers who wish to be employed directly by people with disabilities.
So, what we’ll do is I’ll just take you through to the website and I’ll show you two YouTube clips which are located on the... on there as well, and... which incorporates John McKenna and one of his support staff talking about the... the practicalities of being directly an employer and a support worker being directly employed. Also want to thank HDG Consulting and Ro Saxon in particular for also helping to coordinate the... the design of this. So, I’ll just go down.
(Video plays)
SPEAKER ONE:
Now that you’re a direct employer, that is that you employ your own support staff, I’m really interested to hear about that and why you chose to make those arrangements and what the benefits are for you.
JOHN MCKENNA:
When support staff come into your home, of course it’s... it changes the world, so, for me, it’s all around good communication, and also close bonds, whilst also remaining professional. Another benefit for me has been more economical. I now have the opportunity to give my carers more hours, and also identify that some carers have got different skills, so, if I’m able to reward them by changing the wage rate, well, we’re all happy. So, it’s really working out fantastic for us.
SPEAKER ONE:
So, John, it sounds like it gives you some flexibility and choice cos you can employ your own staff, you can recruit your own staff, but, as an employer, it must mean that there’s some work involved and some administration. So, what does it actually mean in practice? How do you do all those administrative things that are part and parcel of being an employer?
JOHN MCKENNA:
Yes, of course it’s about choice and flexibility. That’s exactly why I’m doing it. So, it’s about compliance. It’s about knowing what you need to do. What’s great now is there’s so much resources out there and we’re sharing with each other about what works, what doesn’t. It’s like choosing a hairdresser or choosing the right restaurant. Who do you talk to? Get different opinions. But it’s fantastic. It allows me to just be more empowered and have a better life. That’s why I do it.
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SPEAKER ONE:
Presuming other people are doing this, do you get the opportunity to talk with lots of other people about how it’s working for them and how they do it?
JOHN MCKENNA:
Yes, of course there are other people doing it and they’re loving it. For instance, you’ve got younger children with disabilities where their parents have said, “You know what, I can do this.” You’ve also got other issues around cultural issues where you want to get the right persons for different reasons.
It’s all about sharing information and, with social media, this is what we’re doing right now. We’re using Facebook, we’re using Twitter, we’re using emails, and this fantastic website, for instance, is allowing people to up empowered and to know it is doable.
SPEAKER ONE:
What would you say to other people who might be interested in this approach?
JOHN MCKENNA:
Like all big decisions, it’s all about think carefully, look into it and do your research. It can really work for a lot of people. At the end of the day, it’s your life, it’s your funding, it’s your choice, so give it a go.
(Applause)
JODY PUNSHON:
Thanks. And the next one is actually from one of John’s support workers also being interviewed, and she just talks about her experience. If I can find it.
SPEAKER ONE:
...for some time now. How did it all start?
SPEAKER TWO:
A friend introduced me to him. I read the job description. I thought it is...
SPEAKER ONE:
...organisations as well as being directly employed by John. Are there any differences from your perspective between the two different arrangements?
SPEAKER TWO:
I think it’s a closer working relationship and a less paperwork, and, if I have some questions or problem, I can... I can talk to John and it make my life easier.
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SPEAKER ONE:
From a worker’s perspective, is it very different to other jobs or other employment arrangements you’ve had?
SPEAKER TWO:
We all do training. We have access to an employment assistance program if we need it. It is just a normal employment situation.
SPEAKER ONE:
Hannah, what would you say to other people who might be interested in this type of direct employment arrangement?
SPEAKER TWO:
Look into it, find out more job description, and, when you get on with your boss and enjoy the work like me, it is... it’s a fantastic job.
(Applause)
JODY PUNSHON:
The rest of the website actually has some practical questions and answers that both staff and people with disabilities can ask if this is an avenue that they wish to go down, but I might hand over to John who can talk a little bit more about some of the content and how he sees this might help people along the way.
JOHN MCKENNA:
Thank you. I think that guy said it all, actually.
(Laughter)
JOHN MCKENNA:
Thanks for the opportunity to share with you the conversation around direct employment, cos, no doubt, the words ‘direct employment’, people take a step back, say, “Nuh. Not for me.” So... and I take that on board. It’s not for everybody. Let’s be very clear about that. I guess there are so much resource out... out there at the moment, and throughout yesterday and today I’ve been listening.
I’m saying this is all good, but let’s not lose sight of the opportunity to need to talk to someone else in a similar situation to yourself, that perhaps maybe doing it, cos, you know, I don’t know about you guys but to say, “Well, it’s all on the internet.” So, I still want to do coffee, chat and get some vibes from other people about, “But, is it working and how does it work?” So I just throw that out there in relation to, and I’ll come back to this in a minute, but just a very quick plug about some work that
VALID are doing with ‘Meetup’ groups.
‘Meetup’ is a website. If you take one note, write down ‘Peer Support to Buy Support.’ ‘Peer Support to Buy Support’. These are seven groups we’ve got around Victoria, and they are doing that. They’re,
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on a monthly basis, allowing people to get together to talk to each other about the good, the bad and the ugly when it comes to self-directed funding.
(Bell rings)
JOHN MCKENNA:
Wow, I love that. That was quick.
(Laughter)
JOHN MCKENNA:
Haven’t started yet, give me that bell. Now, direct employment. Yeah, it is working. I think, really pleased that I have set up that employment assist program and that’s basically - where do my carers go if there is a gripe? So I have, in consultation with a... with a psychologist and a... her own practice, basically, who will allow my carers to go and see them on three visits. And, yes, I pay for that. But it’s a bit of value add for what... why would someone want to work for me. It knows that if you’ve got that opportunity to go if they’ve got an issue. It doesn’t have to be in relation to me. It could be domestic issue that they’ve got at home. So that’s just a little add-on that I’ve done in relation to the staff that I work with.
But I must acknowledge my wife as far as she does the payroll at home, so that works for her. Sorry, so it works for us, I should say. And that’s... we’re talking about 20 minutes once a fortnight. I use casuals. Recruiting’s not a major issue. I deliberately choose and have had a greater relationship with people from China over 15 years, and they’re a group of people who know each other and work well together so it works for us.
I... another plug. Please check out my blog cos I do commentate and give updates on a weekly basis on this sort of stuff, and that’s ‘JohnMcKenna.com.au.’ And probably about all, but happy to talk throughout the day. Thank you.
(Applause)
JO WICKES:
Thanks, John, and thank you, Jody. So, we have just over ten minutes for some questions and answer time. So if you just raise your hand. We have two people with roving microphones who will be able to come and find you, and if you would be able to stand up, just tell us your name and either the organisation you’re from or your area of interest, why... why you’re here with us today, that would be terrific. So, I need... Where is the first person? Over here, on our left, with Graham.
ROBYN GAILE:
Hi. I’m Robyn Gaile from the Victorian Disability Advocacy Resource Unit. A question for John, something you said almost at the end of your presentation about you have a personal preference of workers who are from a... an Asian culture. There was a question that was raised in a concurrent session last... yesterday afternoon, and I’m gonna repeat that question, which is some... one of the concerns that some people might have is about equal opportunity and not discriminating. How do you manage those issues and... yeah, I’d just really like to hear what your perspective is.
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JOHN MCKENNA:
Thanks for the question. We’re not... First of all, it’s... it’s a... a group of people who I work... work... work with, of course, that come into my home. As far as, do I discriminate? No. Anybody can go for the job. I do put in the ad that they must have an understanding of Mandarin, because, quite often,
I’m going to get them to train each other so it’s not me doing all the training. So, is it... I don’t know if the question’s about why but it’s... it’s all about how it... how it works. Is that right, Robyn? Just to...
ROBYN GAILE:
It’s more a case... Cos I think... I think we, as people with disabilities, are entitled to our preferences.
JOHN MCKENNA:
Yes.
ROBYN GAILE:
So I’m not... hopefully I’m not coming across like I’m making a judgment there, but there may be an issue where someone may feel that they might have been discriminated against because they don’t have a... a Mandarin background, and how... what... what mechanisms have you put in place to make sure that you’re demonstrating your reasonableness?
JOHN MCKENNA:
It’s about talking to everybody. I don’t say no. They’re all... Everybody’s able to come to an interview, and talk to me, and meet my wife, and find out what the job’s involved. So it’s not round... Personally, I don’t see it as a mechanism. It... I guess, if we talk about advertising, things like
Gumtree and different websites, that’s all I say. Preference: to have an understanding of Mandarin.
So it’s not around saying yes or no. It’s just a skill that I look for.
JO WICKES:
OK. Is there another question? Sorry, just over here. Then we’ll... we’ll come to you next, Graham.
SPEAKER:
Thank you. This question’s to John. Hi, John. Libby Mears from a not-for-profit down in Barwon, and it’s just fantastic to hear your presentation because I really... I really do believe that controlling choice is actually ultimately what you’re talking about and where you have the greatest opportunity.
And looking at some of the work over the last 10 years in the UK and the direct employment around
PAs seems to be far more prevalent. And it seems like the sector... the sector’s also evolving to support, I guess, staff directly employed to enable access to, you know, training or... or... or relationships from a, you know, a quality perspective. Do you see the need to have some support at a broader level, more systemic level, to support people who are directly employed?
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JOHN MCKENNA:
Are we talking about things like lifting techniques, bowel care et cetera? Sure. Good question and thank you. Yes, of course. My staff are all given the opportunity and recommended that they do that sort of training beforehand. So we do cover common sense sort of things throughout. “Bend your knees before you lift.” Things like that. And health and safety. So I use outside consultants to help me deliver that training.
JO WICKES:
Graham, did you have someone?
SVEN TOPP:
Sven Topp speaking from the Australian DeafBlind Council. This isn’t a particularly specific question to one person, but, perhaps, all three who have just given a presentation. Most people we would look at employing would require specialist services such as communication and the ability to communicate with people who are deafblind, that sort of thing. Is there the ability to search for these specialist skills within your systems? And also would there be access to timetabling systems or just looking at budget and having to go through who might be available at a particular time?
CAMERON MURDOCH:
Yep, this is working. Yep. With our system, it’s... yeah, so I’m just going back to the question. Yeah, we do have the capacity to look for different specialist skills and we also have links to things like the
Human Services Directory here in Victoria, so there is the capacity to do that through our site.
JOHN MCKENNA:
Can I also have a go at that? I think it’s a... a really good question, and thank you. I think, once again, we’re talking about choices and if you’re able to direct employment... direct employ someone that has the skill as a communicator, translator, in relation to people that are deafblind, I think ticks that box, doesn’t it, when you talk about direct employment, because, not only, correct me if I’m wrong to the gentleman that made the question, but it is about getting the right person that’s going to be able to socialise and work with you as you access the community. So I think it does break down a barrier.
JO WICKES:
Yep.
ROBBIE WILLIAMS:
Yeah, and, in terms of an eMarket, the short answer is yes, because, based on the idea of co-design, it would be important that the deafblind community is... is involved in looking at the detailed elements of the eMarket so that it makes it... it as easy as possible to connect to the information that’s gonna be most helpful.
JO WICKES:
Thank you.
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ROBERT SAMUEL:
Robert Samuel from Consult Point. We help companies with their technology choices and have been involved in one of the Practical Design Fund’s projects around ‘My Voice, My Choice’ which was presented yesterday. And my question is to each of the panellists around your views of the sustainability beyond the initial project funds for... for your projects, and what... what early thoughts you’ve got about continuing on beyond the initial pilot.
CAMERON MURDOCH:
Yep. We’ve actually committed to using our site as part of our business model heading forward. So we’re gonna use the... the Non-Secure site to put some information on our services and stuff like that, and then we’ll use the Secure section actually to... that people can actually log in and... and gather their own information so we are actually... yeah, we actually have committed to actually using that site beyond the pilot.
ROBBIE WILLIAMS:
In terms of an eMarket, the... the financial sustainability would, I guess, come from DisabilityCare
Australia deciding that it is something that will add value, and so commissioning it and paying for it on an ongoing basis. So... so that’s important in terms of financial sustainability. But it... I suppose, the other type of sustainability is... is its relevance to people. And so I would expect that if... if
DisabilityCare was going to commission an eMarket then the way it’ll ensure its... the sustainability and its relevance to the disability community is by making sure there is a... a... an ongoing co-design co-production feature for what... the way the eMarket operates so that the experiences of people and their families using the site will then help the site to... to continue to evolve.
JODY PUNSHON:
Thank you. We are committed to keeping the website up and as up to date as possible. The questions are fairly general on our website, so they should be, sort of, there for longevity and be able to be used, you know, hopefully until the full rollout of the DisabilityCare Australia program but we’ll continue to consult with people as they provide feedback to the website.
JO WICKES:
OK. Thank you. We just have time for one more question. That’s right at the very back.
ANGELA FITZPATRICK:
Yes. Hi. Good morning. My name’s Angela Fitzpatrick from Women with Disabilities Victoria. My question really is to the gentleman right at the end. If you are employing your own staff, what percentage of your budget goes towards training and development of staff, maintaining things like police checks, crim checks, first aid certificates, manual handling certificates, so just curious to know how you actually manage your... your workforce.
JOHN MCKENNA:
For sure. Thanks for the question. Everybody heard the question? We’re talking about the sort of cost involved to employ somebody. Yes, it does come out of my budget. The initial setup costs are
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mandatory things, and can also a quick plug for the DHS website where all of these answers sorta...
They’ve got some really good factsheets, q and a, that covers these points. But, yes, it is around relevant insurance to make sure you have that.
Then it gets back... And police checks. Working with children checks are even a more thorough way than a police check. So, it’s about managing, you know, how big your package is. It knows what you want to direct your training. What skills are these people going to have to have? Are they just going to be driving you or are they going to be assisting you in the shower? So it’s... you’ve got that opportunity to, sort of, say, “Those three people are going to need this sort of training. So how am I gonna do this? Let me do a deal with the... with the physiotherapist that works next door. Does she have the qualifications? Will she give me some paperwork?” Do you know what I mean?
So, this is where we really encourage creative thinking around... We all fall into the medical model, the way training is expensive. Now, I’m not talking shortcuts here. I’m saying do it properly. Be thorough. Because, you know, at the end of the day, these are people that you’ve gotta respect. OK?
But it is about how you are shopping to achieve these outcomes for your staff, and the staff’s safety and wellbeing is a real priority for me and my wife.
JO WICKES:
Yes.
ROBBIE WILLIAMS:
Just one observation. It’s not to do with the question, but it’s around the idea of if we want to see choice and control authentically appear and be sustainable in... in the National Disability Insurance
Scheme then one way the disability... disability community can influence that is through the information that they seek, so the questions that people ask and the information that they want in order to make informed choices. So, I... I would appeal, I think, to everyone who’s likely to be a participant in the... in the scheme to think about... about the information that they want, because what you ask for will help guide the direction of the scheme going forward.
JO WICKES:
Thank you. Thank you very much to all of our panel members. Can you just please join me in a round of applause for all four of our panel members?
(Applause)
JO WICKES:
Thank you very much for joining the session. There is a 15 minute break now before the next plenary session starts in the main Melbourne Room at 11:30.
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