CHEMICAL PROCESSING
FEBRUARY 2013
CONFIRMED MINUTES
CONFIRMED MINUTES
FEBRUARY, 18-21, 2013
WESTIN PARK CENTRAL HOTEL
DALLAS, TEXAS, USA
These minutes are not final until confirmed by the Task Group in writing or by vote at a subsequent
meeting. Information herein does not constitute a communication or recommendation from the
Task Group and shall not be considered as such by any agency.
MONDAY, 18-FEB-13 to THURSDAY, 21-FEB-13
1.0
OPENING COMMENTS – CLOSED
The CHEMICAL PROCESSING (CP) Task Group was called to order at 8:00a.m., 18-FEB-13.
Code of Ethics/Antitrust and Meeting Conduct presentations were reviewed.
It was verified that only SUBSCRIBER MEMBERS were in attendance during the closed portion of
the meeting.
A quorum was established with the following representatives in attendance:
Subscriber Members/Participants Present (* Indicates Voting Member)
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Hal
Cary
Malik
David
Manuel
Judith
Michael
Terry
Karyn
Bob
Peter
Robert
Aleck
Alan
Frederick
Greg
Tommy
Robert
John
Martin
Serge
Marc-Andre
Eric
Susan
Nick
Veronique
Bibiana
Joel
Tom
Winton
Micheal
Jim
Abel
Baker
Boutoba
Burke
Cabrera
Camacho
Coleman
Curtland
Deming
Denney
Droste
Faticanti
Featherston
Gilbert
Girard
Haataja
Howland
Knicely
Koenig
Kolinko
Labbe
Lefebvre
LeFort
Lewis
Magnapera
Marcel
Marquez
Mohnacky
Moreland
Mullen
Narowitz
O'Shea
Raytheon Co
The Boeing Company
Eurocopter
BAE Systems - E & I
The Boeing Company
Goodrich (UTAS)
The Boeing Company
Ball Aerospace & Technologies
Goodrich (UTAS)
Honeywell Aerospace
Airbus
Textron Systems
Bell Helicopter Textron
Cessna Aircraft Company
Pratt & Whitney Canada
Bell Helicopter Textron
Spirit AeroSystems Inc.
The Boeing Company
The Boeing Company
Eaton Aerospace
Heroux Devtek Inc.
Heroux Devtek Inc.
SONACA
Lockheed Martin Corporation
BAE Systems - E & I
SAFRAN Group
Goodrich (UTAS)
Hamilton Sundstrand
Bombardier Inc.
Spirit AeroSystems Inc.
Lockheed Martin Corporation
GE Aviation
1
Vice Chairperson
CHEMICAL PROCESSING
FEBRUARY 2013
CONFIRMED MINUTES
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Fabrizio
Minh
Jesse
Carl
Jerry
John
Ralph
Richard
Paul
Steve
Mike
Yuhui
Zia
Shawn
Debbie
Michael
Gene
Miao
Wei
Sergey
Quadrini
Quan
Reeves
Roche
Satchwell
Sattler
Sekkel
Shain
Slater
Starr
Stolze
Sun
Usmani
Vierthaler
Vogel
Vosatka
Wallace
Wang
Wang
Yesilevich
AgustaWestland
Triumph Group
309th Maintenance Wing-Hill AFB
Goodrich (UTAS)
Rolls-Royce PLC
Hawker Beechcraft Corporation
Lockheed Martin Corporation
Gulfstream Aerospace
Rockwell Collins Inc.
Honeywell Aerospace
Northrop Grumman Corporation
COMAC
BAE Systems Air & Information (MAI)
Spirit AeroSystems Inc.
Triumph Aerostructures - VAD
Rockwell Collins
Triumph Aerostructures - VAD
COMAC
COMAC
Hamilton Sundstrand
Chairperson
Other Members/Participants Present (* Indicates Voting Member)
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Ali
Martin
Fred
Lee
Eric
Stephane
Charles
Steve
Mark
Jim
Robert
Warren
Jim
Bruce
Greg
William
Ben
Gary
Ann
Melany
Timothy
Hirohiko
Jonathan
Bill
Eric
Jeff
Richard
Keven
Dean
Randy
Dusty
Sharon
Denis
Bakr
Belanger
Binda
Bruce
Carlson
Chaumeil
Costello
Crest
Crevier
Cummings
Custer
DeCuir
Denton
Dobbins
Excell
Ferris
Flores
Fox
Gill
Guzman
Hamlett
Hattori
Hebben
Heeter
Jacklin
Jones
Kline
Kudelka
Kux
Layton
Little
Mack
Mailloux
Nico Products, Inc.
Sonaca Montreal
Ozark Mountain Technologies LLC
Robert Stuart Ltd.
Hytek Finishes Company
Galion
Sun-Glo Plating Company
Stabile Plating
Morton Manufacturing
Metal Finishing Co.
AAA Plating & Inspection Inc.
Lisi Aerospace Torrance
B-D Industries Inc.
Aetna Plating Company
Coast Plating Inc
TechMetals Inc.
Applied Aerospace Structures Corp
Anodyne, Inc.
Lord Corporation
Centro de Investigación en Materiales Avanzados, S. C.
Certified Metal Finishing
Mitsubishi Heavy Industries Ltd
Ducommun AeroStructures Gardena
Skills Inc.
F.M. Callahan & Son Inc.
Alloy Processing
X-R-I Testing
Westfield Electroplating Co.
Har-Conn Aerospace
Hytek Finishes Company
Ducommun AeroStructures
PM Testing Laboratory Inc.
Sonaca Montreal
2
CHEMICAL PROCESSING
FEBRUARY 2013
CONFIRMED MINUTES
Maria Selene
Hugh
Silvia
Abdillah
Charles
Maru
Maxwell
Miranda
Mohamed
Morgan
*
Laura
Moyer
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*
Simone
Abdul
Thomas
Dinh
Michael
Jerker
Mante
Mahlogonolo
Hector
Kim
Dennis
Ken
Jim
William
Cynthia
Frank
Colin
Tammi
Tony
David
Ken
Greg
Vittorio
John
Ronald
Dawn
Steve
Yoshiomi
Levi
David
Jim
Mike
Gerald
Wilfried
Stephen
Murphy-Fickenworth
Nathani
Newton
Ngo
Noettl
Nordh
Bombardier Transportation Mexico
Robert Stuart LTD
Centro de Investigación en Materiales Avanzados, S. C.
Lord Corporation
Triple Cities Metal Finishing Corp
Howmet Castings and Services, Inc. Dover Casting
(AHDC)
Chrome Plus International
Hi-Tech Metal Finishing
Aircraft X-Ray Laboratories Inc.
GKN Aerospace Chem-tronics Inc.
Magnetic Inspection Laboratory Inc.
GKN Aerospace Sweden AB
Pahakathi
Turbomeca Africa
Pichardo
Porter
Reidy
Rettger
Ringer
Roman
Roth
Saenz
Schiewe
Schubert
Schmaltz
Sexton
Shouse
Smotherman Jr
Stana
Stevens
Stewart
Stokes
Stone
Sukesada
Talamantes
Thompson
Tuminello
Turbett
Wahlin
Weber
Wright
Curtiss Wright Controls Inc Eng Systems
Poly-Metal Finishing
CIL Metal Finishing
Lord Corporation
Tech Met
Magnetic Inspection Laboratory
Team Industrial Services
Hi Tech Metal Finishing
Magnetic Inspection Laboratory
LMI Finishing Inc.
Protective Coatings, Inc.
Certified Metal Finishing Inc.
Lord Corporation
Ozark Mountain Technologies LLC
Avcorp Industries Inc.
Weatherford Aerospace
Ellison Surface Technologies
PTI Industries Inc
Saporito Finishing Company
Asahi Kinzoku Kogyo Inc.
Metal Finishing Co
DCI Aerotech Div. of Detroit Chrome Inc.
Tech Met
Quality Plating Co of Tulsa Inc.
AAA Plating & Inspection Inc.
PFW Aerospace AG
Brazonics Inc.
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Staff Present
Nigel
Michael
Robert
2.0
Cook
Graham
Nixon
DELEGATION OVERSIGHT – CLOSED
The delegation trackers for all delegated audit reviewers were reviewed. All delegated reviewers
had exceeded the requirements to maintain delegation.
3.0
NUCAP – CLOSED
3
CHEMICAL PROCESSING
FEBRUARY 2013
CONFIRMED MINUTES
The status of the NUCAP scope exceptions was reviewed. One was awaiting completion of the
ballot of AC7108/2 before it could be closed and there were four others that were awaiting internal
corrective action.
4.0
PROFICIENCY EXAMS – CLOSED
The proficiency exams for conversion coating, painting and plating were reviewed. There were a
number of questions that needed further amendment.
ACTION ITEM: Staff Engineers to amend the auditor proficiency exams and email them to prime voting
members for comment. (Due Date: 31-Mar-13)
5.0
AUDITOR OVERSIGHT – CLOSED
Mike Stolze and Robert Nixon gave a presentation on the go forward plans for auditor oversight.
Further data analysis is still required to identify which auditors need to be observed. In addition to
the auditors identified by data analysis, the sub-team proposed that new auditors should also be
reviewed. The following Prime members volunteered to assist in the oversight program.
On Site Observation: Mike Stolze, John Koenig, Alan Gilbert, Mike Coleman, Aleck Featherston,
Karyn Deming, Serge Labbe, Zia Usmani, Hal Abel, Jerry Satchwell, Malik Boutoba, Bob
Cashman, Paul Slater, Carl Roche, Jerker Nordh
Desk Top Observation: Mike Stolze, Alan Gilbert, Susan Lewis, Serge Labbe, Yuhui Sun
ACTION ITEM: Observation oversight team to analyze auditor consistency data and create an observation
audit schedule. (Due Date: 31-Mar-13)
6.0
RESOLUTION BY TASK GROUP ISSUES – CLOSED
Audit 146391: The auditor did not receive the Visa in time to complete the audit required to support
their Jan 2013 expiration date. Another auditor is scheduled for an audit in Pakistan on 13-15th
March. Would the Task Group be agreeable to extending the current accreditation from 1/31/2013
to 4/30/2013 to allow time for this with a possible further extension to 31st July 2013 if needed?
Their last audit (#139764) was conducted July 2011 and resulted in zero (0) findings as did the
previous audit. Their current accreditation expires January 31, 2013. Task Group agreed to grant
an extension to 31st July 2013 if required.
Are the Task Group Subscriber members notified by automatic email if an audit accreditation is
extended?
ACTION ITEM: Nigel Cook to determine if Primes are automatically notified of audit accreditation
extensions and report out at the June meeting. (Due Date: 3-Jun-13)
Audit 151330 NCR#1: The NCR stated:
Tank 2.02 & 2.03 Hot water seals- No Conductivity records
AC7108 Rev. E paragraph (6.3.3.11) states: Solution and/or material testing (e.g. reviewed
and acceptable, if material testing (paint) what was done)
Supplier does not have any records available to show the conductivity value for Tank 2.02
and 2.03 as required by specification MT-SL-1829 Issue C paragraph 7.1 which flows
down specification MT-SL-4674 Issue A Table 1. Frequency of testing is defined as
monthly.
4
CHEMICAL PROCESSING
FEBRUARY 2013
CONFIRMED MINUTES
During review of corrective action it became apparent that the make-up water was controlled to
<20uS but during use the records show the conductivity in the tank exceeded 200uS and the
supplier’s self-appointed limits were 700uS. The supplier works to a customer specification and
MIL-A-8625 and none of them define a water purity for the in tank de-ionized water. Task Group
agreed this should not be an NCR.
Audit 148472 NCR#8: The Supplier does Type III anodize to MIL-A-8625. In the audit it was
identified that for the two abrasion test samples one met the abrasion requirement and the other
did not. The supplier accepted the result as compliant because the average of the two tests met the
requirement. MIL-A-8625 does not talk about averaging the values; however ASTM D4060 requires
the test report to include the result for each sample and the average.
The Task Group agreed that both test pieces should meet the requirement and that this is an NCR.
AMS 2433 Plating: Nickel-Thallium-Boron or Nickel-Boron Electroless Deposition specification has
a requirement for a wear test, 3.4.5 Wear Resistance: A standard test block with 0.001 inch (25
μm) plating thickness, post treated as in 3.3.1, and subjected to a 150 pound (68 kg) load with
filtered mineral spirits as a lubricant, shall exhibit a wear scar with an average width not greater
than 0.032 inch (0.81 mm) after 5000 test cycles, determined in accordance with ASTM D 2714.
ASTM D 2714 Standard Test Method for Calibration and Operation of the Falex Block-on-Ring
Friction and Wear Testing Machine. The problem comes from the fact that Falex is the
manufactures of both the testing machine and the ring and blocks used in the testing and offer
testing, however, they do not have any third party certification. They are self-certified and are on
“several boards”.
According to AC 7108 both revisions E & F section 1.2 we still are not allowed to use them as a
testing source.
The Task Group agreed this would be a finding to AC7108.
Note: During report out in the open meeting it was stated that AMS2433 requires the test to be
done to ASTM D2714 and that this specification identifies Falex as the approved source.
ACTION ITEM: Staff Engineers to verify what the MTL Group do and bring back a recommendation to the
June 2013 meeting. (Due Date: 3-Jun-13)
Adding Specifications to an Audit Scope: Under what circumstances can specifications be added to
the scope of a supplier’s accreditation after the audit is conducted. The current (undocumented)
practice is a specification can be added if the specification was included in a job audit or the
specification was in their previous scope and it was obviously an oversight. Other than these cases
additional specifications are not added unless an Add Scope audit is conducted. Can NTGOP-001
App CP be amended to include the circumstances under which additional specifications can be
added.
ACTION ITEM: Nigel Cook, Hal Abel, Susan Lewis to amend NTGOP-001 CP to include verbiage and
bring to the June meeting. (Due Date: 3-Jun-13)
Prime Information on eAuditNet: Prime Specific Information currently posted in eAuditnet at
Resources/Public Documents/Chemical Processing/Supplier Information/Prime Specific
Information has not been updated for quite some time. Should these documents be addressed in
the same manner as Prime Table1’s, i.e. remove from eAuditNet, email the document to the Prime
Rep and replace when updated. The most recent posting date is 2005 with some going back to
2002. The Task Group agreed that the documents should be removed and replaced only when
updated.
5
CHEMICAL PROCESSING
FEBRUARY 2013
CONFIRMED MINUTES
ACTION ITEM: Robert Nixon to remove the documents and email them to the Prime representative for
update. (Due Date: 31-Mar-13)
Audit 146723 NCR 2: “OBSERVATION: Was lot testing in conformance with specification and/or
customer requirements?
Passivation Paper trail Job 169009 P/N 1159BM979-23, parts were subjected to the water
immersion test as per SOP-05-8.2.4.E, AMS-STD-753 Method 100. The parts were too large to fit
completely in the water immersion test tank, thus they were run twice, flipping them 180 degrees
after 24 hours, so as to achieve complete testing. The spec requirement is: "Parts shall be
alternately immersed in reagent grade water for one hour, removed from the tank, and allowed to
dry for one hour for a minimum of 24 hours.", where the auditor interprets immersed to mean 100%
immersion due to the increased possibility of a false positive due to the water/air interface.
The Task Group agreed this this was not a finding and needs to be voided.
Audit 146170 NCR#6: Requirement: WI DMS STD 101 sequence 16: After clean, drying is to be
performed by oven air dry at 180F +/- 25F.
Identified Nonconformance: Parts with outside diameters (OD) greater than approximately 35" do
not fit and oven doors are left partially open.
This is a low temperature drying oven subject to AC7108 section 5.5 and the supplier is therefore
permitted to define their own TUS requirement. Although the normal expectation would be to have
the oven doors closed the TUS demonstrates the 180° ± 25°F internal requirement is being met.
Supplier responses state the only customer requirement is a maximum drying temperature of
250°F.
The Task Group agreed this is not an NCR.
Incident Report 727: Audit 149298 was only in TG Review for 1 day. The ballot end date in
eAuditNet was incorrect causing the audit to show as having completed the ballot process. An
eAuditNet report was run and this was the only audit less than 7 days in TG review. The eAuditNet
amendment log was also reviewed and there had not been any manual amendment of the ballot
end date. The Task Group agreed that this was a one off incident and no further action is required.
Audit 151722: The Supplier has AC7108/7 Vacuum Cadmium in their scope but the auditor was not
able to conduct a job audit because the vacuum gauge failed during the audit. The previous audit
also included an historic job audit. Is the Task Group happy to grant accreditation based on
conducting another historic job audit? The Audit Handbook states:
A supplier can retain listing a process/specification in their scope so long as:
• They have an internal procedure for that process that lists the specification and is
compliant to its requirements.
• The supplier has previously processed parts, within the last 5 years, to the processing
requirements and has evidence that acceptance test requirements were met.
• The supplier has previously processed test pieces, within the last 5 years, to the
processing requirements and has evidence that the periodic testing requirements have
been met.
These items are not required to be part of the audit but shall be made available to the auditor if
requested. If the supplier cannot provide evidence for any of the above the auditor will document in
4.1.1 of the AC7108 checklist what scope items were removed and the reason why.
The Task Group agreed that accreditation can be granted based on historic job audits in the last
two Nadcap audits.
6
CHEMICAL PROCESSING
FEBRUARY 2013
CONFIRMED MINUTES
7.0
NEW VOTING MEMBER APPROVAL & COMPLIANCE WITH VOTING REQUIREMENTS –
OPEN
Requests to become a voting member were received from:
Title
First Name
Surname
Company
Ms.
Kim
Porter
Ms.
Gardiner
Rynne
Mr.
Bob
Denney
Mr.
Mitchell
Tanner
Mr.
Mr.
Milt
Marc-André
Stevenson Jr
Lefebvre
Mr.
Sergey
Yesilevich
Mr.
Mr.
Dennis
Michael
Reidy
Vosatka
Mr.
Mr.
Mr.
Ms.
Yuhui
Wei
Miao
Laura
Sun
Wang
Wang
Moyer
Poly-Metal
Finishing
Chem Processing
Inc.
Honeywell
Aerospace
Triumph
Processing –
Embee Division
Inc.
Anoplate Corp
Heroux Devtek
Inc.
Hamilton
Sundstrand
(UTAS)
CIL
Rockwell Collins
Inc.
COMAC
COMAC
COMAC
Howmet Castings
and Services,
Inc. Dover
Casting (AHDC)
Voting Member
Type
Supplier Voting
Member (SVM)
SVM
Meetings
Attended
Feb 12 Oct 12
Feb 12
Oct 12
Alternate Subscriber
Voting Member
(ALT/UVM)
SVM
Oct 12
Feb 13
Feb 12
Oct 12
SVM
ALT/UVM
Oct 11
Oct 12
Oct 12
Feb 13
Subscriber Voting
Member (UVM)
Feb 12
Jun 12
SVM
ALT/UVM
Oct 12
Oct 12
Feb 13
Feb 13
UVM
ALT/UVM
ALT/UVM
SVM
Oct 12
Oct 12
Oct 12
Oct 12
Feb 13
Feb 13
Feb 13
Feb 13
Note: You must be registered on eAuditNet before you can be made a Voting Member.
The Task Group agreed to grant voting privilege to all of the above.
Compliance to voting requirements was reviewed. American Tinning had failed to meet
requirements for both meeting attendance and balloting and their voting privilege is to be
removed.
Various other Suppliers and Subscribers (3P Processing, The Boeing Company, BAE Systems,
Bombardier Areospace, EADS CASA, Heroux Devtek Inc, Parker Aerospace, Harr Conn, Tech
Met) failed to meet one or other of the requirements, typically ballot responses.. These were all
reviewed with the Task Group Chair and it was agreed that they retain their voting privileges based
on the work they do for the Task Group, e.g. sub-team work, auditor observation, etc.
Alenia’s voting privileges were removed as a result of actions from the last meeting. Alenia are
working to identify a replacement.
ACTION ITEM: PRI Staff to amend voting status of the identified Subscriber Representatives. (Due Date:
15-Mar-13)
8.0
NEW SUPPLIER ORIENTATION – OPEN
7
CHEMICAL PROCESSING
FEBRUARY 2013
CONFIRMED MINUTES
Mike Noettl presented the new supplier orientation presentation.
9.0
FRENCH TRANSLATION OF CHECKLISTS – OPEN
AC7108 Rev F – Translated, to be posted on eAuditNet
AC7108/1 Rev B – Translated and posted on eAuditNet
AC7108/2 Rev B - Translated and posted on eAuditNet
Audit Handbook (Feb 2012) – Translated and on eAuditNet
Audit Handbook (Oct 2012) – In progress and due this week
ACTION ITEM: Nigel Cook to post AC7108 Rev F and the Audit Handbook in eAuditNet. (Due Date: 31Mar-13)
10.0
NMC METRICS, REGIONAL AUDITOR CAPACITY – OPEN
The NMC metrics and auditor capacity metrics were reviewed. The metrics were generally meeting
requirements but the following items needed to be watched.
Overall auditor capacity was green but there was lack of capacity in Asia. Because ITAR audits
cannot be conducted by Asian auditors the data does not reflect the true capacity and the situation
needs to be re-assessed based on non-ITAR audits.
Staff cycle time was red for Initial Audits and was generally trending upwards for all audits. The
Task Group questioned if there was sufficient reviewer capacity and expressed concern that the
need to meet the metric may result in acceptance of corrective actions that would not normally be
accepted. Would it be possible to produce an audit reviewer capacity/workload metric?
ACTION ITEM: PRI Staff to review the possibility of an audit reviewer capacity/workload metric. (Due Date:
3-Jun-13)
11.0
NOP-011 MODE B FAILURE CRITERIA – OPEN
The Task Group reviewed the present Mode B failure criteria and the new 95% and 98% 2012
criteria.
Initial Audit Data:
Present
1 Day Audit
2 Day Audit
3+ Day Audit
Major
2 (95%)
4 (95%)
6(95%)
Total
7 (95%)
14 (95%)
21 (95%)
95%
Proposed
1 Day Audit
2 Day Audit
3+ Day Audit
2
3
5
5
9
14
98%
Proposed
1 Day Audit
2 Day Audit
3+ Day Audit
2
4
6
6
12
19
Reaccreditation Audit Data:
Major
8
Total
CHEMICAL PROCESSING
FEBRUARY 2013
CONFIRMED MINUTES
Present
1 Day Audit
2 Day Audit
3+ Day Audit
2 (98%)
4 (98%)
6 (98%)
4 (98%)
9 (98%)
13 (98%)
95%
Proposed
1 Day Audit
2 Day Audit
3+ Day Audit
1
2
3
3
5
8
98%
Proposed
1 Day Audit
2 Day Audit
3+ Day Audit
2
3
5
3
7
10
The Task Group agreed to retain the present failure criteria.
ACTION ITEM: Nigel Cook to advise Mike Graham that the NOP-011 Mode B failure criteria will remain the
same. (Due Date: 31-Mar-13)
12.0
CHEMICAL PROCESS AUDIT HANDBOOK APPROVAL – OPEN
The Task Group reviewed and approved the amendments to the Chemical Processing Audit
Handbook.
ACTION ITEM: Nigel Cook to post the amended Chemical Processing Audit Handbook. (Due Date: 31Mar-13)
13.0
AUDITOR CONFERENCE – OPEN
Robert Nixon will be responsible for overall coordination of the October Auditor Conference for the
Chemical Processing (CP) Task Group. Will Calvert is part of the PRI team for the general section
of the Auditor Conference.
The status of the sub-team presentations were reviewed:
Subjects for Next Auditor Conference:
New paint systems – Have not yet met.
Prime specific presentation – Have not yet met.
AC7108/6 - Cleanliness Verification – Draft presentation
reviewed.
New anodize techniques, e.g. BSA, TSA. – Outline plan for
content reviewed.
9
Members- Leads (L)
Staff Engineer (SE)
Zia Usmani (L)
Alan Gilbert
Mike Graham (SE)
John Koenig (L)
Bob Cashman
Mike Stolze
Will Calvert (SE)
Jim O'Shea (L)
Jim Ringer
Vitorio Stana
Debbie Vogel
Nigel Cook (SE)
Jerry Satchwell (L)
Neil Cowan
Jim Cumming
Karyn Deming
Mike Noettl
Tammy Shubert
Stephan Simacek
CHEMICAL PROCESSING
FEBRUARY 2013
CONFIRMED MINUTES
Will Calvert (SE)
Pyrometry (including Prime requirements) – First meeting
arranged for early March.
Masking technology – First meeting arranged for early
March.
Electroless plating including masking issues First meeting
arranged for early March.
14.0
Mike Coleman (L)
Jonathan Hebben
Vitorio Stana
Robert Nixon (SE)
Hal Abel (L)
Jonathon Hebben
Keven Kedelka
Mike Noettl
Shawn Vierthaler
Robert Nixon (SE)
Bob Cashman (L)
Dan Backus
Keven Kedelka
Steve Starr
Robert Nixon (SE)
REVIEW OF AUDITOR ADVISORIES – OPEN
The two auditor advisories issued since the last meeting were reviewed.
15.0
TECHNICAL DATA SHEETS – OPEN
Mike Stolze gave a presentation on the sub-team status for Technical Datasheets.
The Task Group agreed that the requirements in AC7108 documents for compliance to technical
datasheet parameters are not compliant with NOP-002 checklist criteria.
In addition the Task Group agreed the sub-team is to continue and amend the relevant checklist
paragraphs to remove compliance with technical datasheet parameters and replace it with
compliance to technical data and to also define what constitutes technical data.
Mike Stolze (Lead), Hal Abel, Karyn Deming, Susan Lewis, Nicholas Magnapera, Yohands
Armando Rey, John Koenig, Steve Crest, Jim Cummings, Mike Noettl, Keven Kudelka, Jonathan
Hebben, Warren De Cuir, Will Calvert.
ACTION ITEM: Mike Stolze and sub-team to amend the relevant checklist paragraphs to remove
compliance with technical datasheet parameters and replace it with compliance to technical data and to
also define what constitutes technical data. (Due Date: 3-Jun-13)
16.0
CHECKLIST STRATEGIC PLAN – OPEN
Jerry Satchwell reviewed the Task Group member’s responses for the proposed new Base and
Anodize Checklists and defined the next steps which were to create the remaining checklists and
obtain feedback on them from Task Group members. The following members agreed to provide
feedback for specific checklist. Other members are also welcome to respond.
AC 7108/1: Jim Cummings, Alan Gilbert, Mike Stolze, Gene Wallace
AC 7108/2: Steve Starr, Tammi Schubert, Frederic Girard
AC 7108/3: Alec Featherston, John Koenig, Kim Porter, Mike Stolze, Abdillah Mohamed
AC 7108/4: Jim Cummings, Dennis Reidy, Alec Featherston, Jonathan Hebben, Cindy Klinger
10
CHEMICAL PROCESSING
FEBRUARY 2013
CONFIRMED MINUTES
AC 7108/5: Mike Noettl, Jerker Nordh, Zia Usmani, Jonathan Hebben, Jim Ringer, Dinh Ngo
AC 7108/6: Jerker Nordh, Abdillah Mohamed, Jim O’Shea
AC 7108/7: Mike Stolze, Warren DeCuir, Tim Hitchcock, Jerry Wahlin,
AC 7108/9: Hal Abel, Dennis Reidy, Sergey Yesilevich, William Ferris
AC 7108/10: Susan Lewis, Nick Magnapera, Lee Bruce
AC 7108/11: Hal Abel, Kim Porter or Nick Magnapera, John Koenig, Alec Featherston, Tammi
Schubert, Dinh Ngo
AC 7108/12: Dinh Ngo, Mike Noettl, Keven Kudelka, Warren DeCuir
AC 7108/13: Bob Cashman, Hal Abel, Karyn Deming, Bill Ferris
AC 7108/14: Keven Kudelka, Steve Starr, Hal Abel, Alan Gilbert
There were a number of concerns expressed about audit duration and how s-frm-16 and the audit
scope would be amended to ensure audit durations are not increased as a result of this restructure
of the checklists.
ACTION ITEM: A sub-team of Mike Stolze (Lead), Alan Gilbert, Jerry Satchwell, Bill Ferris, Bill Heeter and
Nigel Cook was assigned to review s-frm-16 and the electronic scope document to ensure audit durations
were not increased as a result of the checklist restructure. (Due Date: 3-Jun-13)
17.0
NDT AC7108/2 PROPOSAL – OPEN
The sub-team put their proposal to the NMC after the October 2012 meeting and a number of
questions were raised by the NMC. The sub-team had a meeting to resolve these questions and
have provided a response to the NMC that will be reviewed after this meeting.
The main points of the present proposal are:
 The checklist will be split into two sections, one for pre-penetrant etch and one for etch
inspection.
 Additional questions on qualification/certification, acceptance standards, IGA/EGP will be
added.
 CP and NDT auditors will be trained to conduct the audits.
 Additional job audits will be required, a minimum of one job audit for each etch method (PPE,
Nital Etch, Macro Etch, Blue Etch Anodize).
 The duration of etch audits, and audits that contain etch, will increase for a number of suppliers
dependent on etch scope and present audit length.
 The etch checklist will be owned by CP but balloted to CP & NDT.
 The supplier can chose to have the audit done, subject to 5 day rule, as part of its CP or NDT
accreditation.
18.0
CHEMICAL PROCESS TASK GROUP SUPPLIER SEMINAR – OPEN
Jerry Satchwell led a discussion on selecting subject matter for a supplier seminar at the next 3
Nadcap meetings. The new Smart Checklist and Top 10 NCRS were the only topics proposed and
it is unlikely that this would take much more than 1 hour to present. Dave Michaud said that the
eAuditNet team has a very slick presentation for the Smart Checklist that we may be able to use or
get them to present.
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CHEMICAL PROCESSING
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CONFIRMED MINUTES
If anybody has any suggestions then please let Jerry Satchwell, Karyn Deming or PRI Staff know.
ACTION ITEM: Nigel Cook to talk to eAuditNet team about presenting their presentation at the June
meeting. (Due Date: 31-Mar-13)
19.0
VISCOSITY TESTING – ZAHN CUPS – OPEN
Jeff Jones gave a presentation on the issues with Zahn viscosity cups. There are two types of Zahn
viscosity cups (EZ and Signature) and they are basically identical apart from the size of the orifice.
The problem is that the paint specifications do not always identify which cup to use and the results
can be significantly different.
AC7108/1 para 3.11 only requires viscosity to be tested when it is required by the paint application
specification and although this limits the problem it does not eliminate it. In some cases the Primes
do not know what cup should be used because the viscosity data is provided by the paint
manufacturer.
20.0
WATER BREAK FREE TESTING – OPEN
Bill Heeter gave a presentation on the sub-team’s proposal to replace Water Break Free Testing
with Cleanliness Verification. The Task Group agreed to move forward with the concept and
implement it after completion of the checklist strategic plan. There were some comments raised
where it was felt the proposal needed additional work:



Cleanliness verification if cleaning is the final step.
Confusion of the term with the Cleanliness Verification Checklist, AC7108/6.
The wording in the checklist needs to ensure the verification method is effective and carried
out.
ACTION ITEM: Cleanliness Verification team to review the new checklists after implementation of the
checklist strategic plan and provide alternative wording for the relevant paragraphs. (Due Date: 20-Feb-14)
21.0
INTERNATIONAL PROCESS SPECIFICATIONS/STANDARDS – OPEN
An email requesting a list of European Specifications and National Specifications for countries in
Europe was sent to European prime and supplier voting members. One response was received
from GKN Aerospace who stated that they used AMS and ASTM specifications, no other
responses were received.
This is the third time the CPTG has been approached for information and on each occasion the
response has been minimal.
Veronique Marcel had a list and will provide it to Nigel Cook.
ACTION ITEM: Nigel Cook to review the European specification list provided by Veronique Marcel and
incorporate into the Chemical Process QML. (Due Date: 30-Jun-13)
22.0
REACH – OPEN
Jerry Satchwell and Zia Usmani gave presentations on how their respective companies, RollsRoyce PLC and BAE Systems are addressing REACH.
ACTION ITEM: Nigel Cook to get clearance from Rolls-Royce PLC and BAE Systems to post their
presentations on eAuditNet. (Due Date: 15-Mar-13)
23.0
SMART CHECKLISTS – OPEN
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CHEMICAL PROCESSING
FEBRUARY 2013
CONFIRMED MINUTES
The Smart Checklist is a modification of the eAuditNet system to incorporate the modified scope
audit process used by the Chemical Process Task Group. The fundamentals of the system are:




The first three audits, initial audit and first two re-accreditation audits, will be full scope and will
ask all questions in the checklist(s)
Later (mature) audits will not be required ask the questions that have been identified as NA
due to modified scope status. These questions will still be able to be answered if the auditor
identifies a non-conformance against them.
If a checklist is technically revised, revision letter change, a mature audit will be reset at cycle 3
for that checklist, i.e. treated as the 2nd reaccred audit.
If a supplier adds additional scope the auditor will need to confirm that the additional questions
have been asked.
Checklist Cycle
1
2
3
4
5
6
Standard
S
S
S
S
S
S
Frequency (**)
Modified
S&Mod S&Mod S&Mod
S
S
S&Mod
Frequency
(**) A standard frequency audit only has standard frequency questions.
7
S
8
S
9
S
10
S
S
S
S&Mod
S
The programming should be completed by the end of February and we will then need to modify the
electronic checklist to identify if a question is Standard or Modified. Release is expected to be
October 2013.
24.0
AMS2750 REV E – OPEN
Karyn Deming presented the sub-teams comparison between AC7108 and AMS 2750 Rev E. The
results of the comparison are that all the AC7108 questions are still consistent with the new AMS
2750 revision.
25.0
RECORDING OF PROCESS PARAMETERS – OPEN
Zia Usmani gave a presentation on the sub-teams methodology and recommendation for recording
of process parameters. The sub-team used a risk assessment approach based on whether the
parameter is a special parameter, has a significant potential to impact hardware, is for compliance
or for process control.
ACTION ITEM: Nigel Cook to tabulate the result in a before and after table to clearly identify what
parameters would no longer be required to be recorded and send out to all voting members for comment.
(Due Date: 30-Apr-13)
26.0
REPORT OUTS: NMC (MICHAUD), SSC (JACKLIN), P&O/CLOSED, STEERING (LEWIS),
CP-SAT (CUMMINGS) – OPEN
Reports outs were received on NMC, SSC, P&O, Closed Meeting, Steering and CP-SAT.
ACTION ITEM: PRI Staff to issue an auditor advisory regarding both taber wear test pieces are to meet
acceptance criteria defined in Mil-A-8625. (Due Date: 31-Mar-13)
27.0
3M TAPE - THE REAL STORY – OPEN
David Johnson from 3Ms gave a presentation to the Task Group on the changes to the 250 tape.
The tape manufacture was moved a couple of times as the market for the product declined.
Eventually the machinery to make it because obsolete and 3Ms set about re-formulating its
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CHEMICAL PROCESSING
FEBRUARY 2013
CONFIRMED MINUTES
manufacturing method so that it could be manufactured on available tape making machinery.
Although the backing and adhesive are similar there has been an increase in the peel strength of
the tape. Part of the reason for the increased peel strength was a change in the formulation to
ensure all tapes exceeded to 60oz/in peel strength when pulled at 12 in/min.
Although the 3Ms results show a significant increase in peel strength, the value determined by
some independent tests was even higher still.
David asked people who had a concern to contact him and he would try to address their concerns.
David was asked if he would be prepared to give this presentation in the June meeting in Europe.
ACTION ITEM: Nigel Cook to liaise with David Johnson of 3Ms to see if he can attend the June meeting
and provide a similar presentation on 250 tape. (Due Date: 31-Mar-13)
28.0
ANY OTHER BUSINESS – OPEN

Are there suppliers who would be willing to host Primes on site to aid their training/knowledge
of chemical processing.(F M Callahan, Robert Stuart, Metal Finishing, Aetna Plating, Sun Glo,
Lisi Aerospace, DCI Aerotech, Aircraft X-Ray)

Specification list: The Task Group presently requires a specification list to be attached in the
AC7108 checklist at paragraph 4.1.1. The present requirement is that this list identifies all
specifications done by the supplier that are applicable to their scope. Some auditors have
requested if this list can contain as a minimum the specifications that are done but are not
available to be selected in the eAuditNet scope, e.g. European Consensus Specifications,
Prime Specifications. CP-SAT agreed to look at this.
ACTION ITEM: PRI Staff to issue an auditor advisory regarding the content of the specification list and
amend AC7108 section 2.1 to identify the need for an editable list. (Due Date: 31-Mar-13)

Subscriber Customer Identification: eAuditNet has recently been updated to allow suppliers to
identify which Primes’ hardware they process. Specification list can be added to as free text so
suppliers may be adding Prime names that the Primes do not want including.

AC7108 Rev F: For a supplier that has achieved modified scope, does the first audit to AC7108
Rev F need to be full scope or can it be modified scope with the amended/new questions
asked. Staff Engineer recommendation is that if the previous audit was to AC7108 Rev D then
it should be full scope and if the previous audit was to AC7108 Rev E it should be modified
scope with the amended/new questions asked. The Task Group agreed to work to the staff
engineer recommendation.

During the AQS Liaison meeting last night we were asked to bring the following question to our
Task Groups and provide an answer back to the AQS Task Group today if at all possible:
- How does your TG have confidence in initial audit results when there is no actual parts in
house? We run scrap parts or test panels as if they were parts with required documentation
(e.g. route card work instructions), supplier must have a least one set of acceptable periodic
test results and the job need to meet lot test requirements.
- Do you have guidance in your handbook or checklist for the auditors? No, was raised in
October 2007 minutes, reconfirmed in June 2010 minutes, but has disappeared over time from
the command media. NTGOP-001 App CP, or AC7108 checklist, to be amended to include
requirements. A minimum of I set of acceptable periodic tests and lot tests. Scrap hardware is
preferred for job audit processing but test pieces would be acceptable if scrap hardware not
available.
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CHEMICAL PROCESSING
FEBRUARY 2013
CONFIRMED MINUTES
ACTION ITEM: PRI Staff review and amend most relevant document to capture the Task Group decision.
(Due Date: 31-Jun-13)
29.0
DEVELOP AGENDA FOR FEBRUARY 2013 TASK GROUP MEETING – OPEN
Minutes Prepared by: Nigel Cook nigel.cook@pri-europe.org.uk /Joyce Benkart jbenkart@sae.org
***** For PRI Staff use only: ******
Is procedural/form changes required based on changes/actions approved during
this meeting? (select one)
YES*
NO
*If yes, the following information is required:
Documents requiring
revision:
Who is responsible:
Due date:
CP Audit Handbook
Nigel Cook
31-Mar -13
15