Pastoral Remarks for Sexuality Roundtable
First Presbyterian Church – Raleigh, NC
Rev. Anna Rainey Dickson
November 15, 2015
**I spoke from an outline and not a manuscript on November 15th. Therefore, this is not a verbatim
version of my remarks, but my best attempt to fill in the outline I used with what I said in that forum.
I am happy to share it in written form with that caveat well noted.**
I. Thank you
First, I want to start by thanking the Marriage Task Force for the work they are doing on behalf of
our congregation, and not only for the work that they are doing, but how they are going about that
work. You should feel confident and proud knowing who is providing the leadership for this
conversation in our church – the group very diverse (theologically and otherwise), and they are
also incredibly thoughtful, faithful, intelligent people who love this church and who have the
healthy and unity of the church in mind as they study the issue of sexuality in order to make a
recommendation to Session about the marriage policy of FPC. So, thank you to them.
And thank you to you – to each of you gathered around these tables tonight. Thank you for being
invested in this church, thank you for committing yourselves to have loving and patient
conversation with one another, thank you for trying to love one another well as we talk about a
difficult issue facing the church. Your presence here tonight communicates your dedication and
investment to Christ's ministry here, and I am grateful to see so many people here. What you are
doing tonight – and how you are doing it – is so important.
I am fresh off of spending a wonderful weekend leading the PW retreat in Wrightsville, and have
just walked in the door from the ordination and installation service of a friend and seminary
colleague in Goldsboro, so I feel like I need to take a deep breath before we begin. And, actually,
this is a difficult conversation, and you all have been talking for awhile around these tables, so
perhaps we can all take a deep breath together. [Breath]. Thank you.
II. This is a hard conversation.
This is a hard conversation for several different reasons, and I think we have to name some of
those reasons in order to be able to move forward together well and to have a good conversation.
This conversation about same-sex marriage is difficult for some because they feel like it is coming
out of the blue – that we haven't talked much about this here, or that they haven't heard much
about it – and so this conversation feels really fast, too soon, out of the blue for them. I understand
that.
I also know that this is a hard conversation because the opposite is true for many in the room. We
feel like we have been talking about homosexuality nonstop, for a long time, ad nauseum. And so
there are some people who are ready to move on. There are some who are concerned that the
more time we give this topic, the more we discuss and debate it, the more we become distracted
from the real mission of the church, which is to carry out Christ's ministry in the world, to share
the good news with our neighbors, to serve our neighbors who are in need, to be about Christ's
work and the things he focused on in his own ministry. And so some of us, myself included to be
honest, are tired…and that makes any conversation hard.
Another reason this is difficult is that this conversation brings up a lot of fear for many of us –
fears about the future of the church, fears about the budget, fears about whether or not it is
possible to coexist in a church with people with whom we disagree in a culture that urges us to
believe we can really only be in fellowship with those with whom we are likeminded, fears about
whether or not I, or a loved one of mine, have a place here, fears about what people will think of
me if I express a certain viewpoint (will I be written off by someone I respect?). That's really
important to name. Fear is a part of this conversation – and that is real, and legitimate, and true.
But I also trust that "perfect love drives out fear", and that the Source of that love, can and does
accompany us as we wade into deep waters.
III. But most of all, this is a difficult conversation to have because sexuality is so personal and so
integral to what it means to be a human being.
Our sexual lives are so much a part of who we are as people, and as we all know, they can be a
venue in which we can experience:

Grace, love, tenderness, mutuality, pleasure, respect, joy
But also a venue in which we really are at risk of experiencing

A lot of shame, selfishness, diminishment, even abuse and violence and degradation.
I want to be really careful to name that. This is a place in our lives where we are so vulnerable,
and we bring a whole host of experiences and messages, etc.
That is why how we have this conversation is so very important. What we are doing is not just an
academic exercise, not just a batting around of ideas without implication. When we talk about
sexuality, we are talking about human life – tonight, we are talking about real lives, real bodies,
real people who are made in the image of God, which is what Christian theology at its best is
always about. So we must speak with care, love, grace, and a lot of faith.
IV. What is my goal as a pastor here?
Last Advent, I preached a sermon on John the Baptist in which I referenced a piece of artwork
called the Isenheim Altarpiece, which hangs in a monastery. And I shared with you that theologian
Karl Barth famously had this sitting above the desk where he wrote his Church Dogmatics. And he
had it there to remind him on the posture that a theologian should take. Depicted: Christ on the
cross in central panel, but sharing the panel is John the Baptist, and he has his hand raised and is
pointing to Christ, so that when the viewer looks at John the Baptist, his or her gaze is immediately
drawn back to Christ. This is how John the Baptist is rendered in most iconography.
I want to be a pastor that takes that posture. I understand my role and my calling in this
community and in the church to be to do my best to point to Christ, to draw attention to him and
to his love for the world and for God's people. So that really is my intent tonight as it is in the rest
of my ministry – not to convince anyone of my position on same sex marriage or any other topic
really, but in all things to try to point to Christ. I am confident that I can be a faithful pastor in a
diverse theological community, am dedicated to being a pastor to the whole church, am dedicated
to loving each member of this community as a beloved child of God, with God's grace.
V. I am starting where you were asked to start: First question – What experiences have shaped
how you think about same sex marriage?
The question of same sex marriage was honestly not one that I did much wrestling with for a long
time, frankly, because I had the privelege of not thinking about it as a heterosexual woman living
in a heteronormative society. Homosexuality is not my life experience. I am a straight woman
married to a man. I have never had anyone judge me or threaten me because of my sexual
orientation. I've never had anyone suggest to me that God rejects part of who I am in my nature,
or question the authenticity of my faith or ability to read Scripture. I've never had anyone exclude
me or shame me for my sexuality.
Because of this, I never felt much urgency to think about homosexuality. It just wasn't on my
radar, which I think is how we all tend to be about things that are not our life experience or that
don't directly affect us…until they do. We just don't think about them much, and that's not
necessarily a bad thing. It is just true about it. Our own experiences tend to be primary.
So I didn't think much about homosexuality until I found myself in close friendships with people
who are gay, until I had people in my life – friends, church family – who are gay. And even in just a
few years of ordained ministry, I have been in more conversations than I ever anticipated about
sexuality and the church – with people who are gay who have come to talk about the hurt they
have experienced at the hands of the church, the ways they have felt excluded or misunderstood,
the shame they have felt over wondering how God felt about them as human beings, because on
the one hand they have heard sermon after sermon and Sunday School lesson after lesson about a
God who loves us and extends that love to us without us doing anything to earn it, that God wants all
of us, and on the other hand, hearing the message that part of me is not welcomed or even
acknowledged by that same God. I have also sat with people who have gay loved ones and friends
to wrestle with this same theological tension.1
As I have had these conversations, I have recognized in them a resonance with my experience of
being a woman who is called to teach and preach in the context of a Christian community that denied
that God could call me to this ministry because of my gender. Now, I want to be very, very careful to
say that I am absolutely not saying that these two experiences are the same thing. They are not.
But there was a resonance there for me, which is the disconnect between the message we hear
I was happy to discover that Presbyterian pastor and professor, Mark Achtemeier,
begins his book, The Bible's Yes to Same Sex Marriage: An Evangelical's Change of
Heart, with similar concerns. He, much better than I, thoroughly addresses this
important tension in the first chapter of his book. I would commend it to all.
1
about how God calls and loves us, and the message we receive about what is possible for us in
terms of responding to that call and that love (in my case, this is/was based on my gender).
So, all of this led me to try to move past my primary experience and really study the scriptures, to
talk to people across the theological spectrum, and particularly to become a listener, and to hear
from gay people about their experiences and their reflections. I have learned a lot especially from
faithful Christians who are also gay about their process of trying to figure out what this means for
them and how to sort the messages they hear from the church.
VI. The "Net Effect" of our Theology
A year or so ago, I attended the Duke Convocation and Pastors' School that Duke Divinity hosts
every fall. I try not to miss it. And that particular year, the keynote speakers were two theologians
that wrote a book together a decade ago about Christian ethics. The topic was not sexuality, but I
promise it is relevant to this conversation tonight. So, the two theologians were there on the 10
year anniversary of the book's publishing to talk about the ideas in it and the legacy of those ideas
expressed in the book. So they did that. And then, a third theologian from another school was
invited to come and make some comments and critiques in response to the book.
One thing that theologian said has helped me to clarify what I want to do when I do theology as a
pastor. This is what he said: as he talked about some of the ideas in the book, he said that when
we assess a theology, we always have to consider the "net effect" of that theology – not just what it
says, but what it does. What impact it has.
Here's another way to say it:
A theological idea can sound beautiful, true, and faithful, but does that theological make me a
better disciple of Christ? Does my theology make me a more loving person, a person whose life,
words, actions reflect the love of God? What does my theology do, not just what does it say, in the
lives of others? What impact does it have on the lives of others?
This is important to me as a pastor. I am aware that theology does something…not just in my life,
but in the lives of other.
VII. Scripture
Now, I try to read Scripture with a commitment to the awareness of the "net effect" idea above.
As I have been drawn back into the study of Scripture as it pertains to sexuality, as with everything
else, I have also fallen back on some of the "tried and true", traditional Reformed guidelines for
reading Scripture. Christians in our tradition have relied on guidelines like:

Scripture interprets Scripture. We don't "cherry pick" or take passages out of context and
apply them at face value to a situation we face now. Rather, when we encounter
difficult/contested passages, we do our best to read them in light of the whole witness of
Scripture. So, in order to read scripture well, I have to hold in my mind the whole of
Scripture, its arc, its emphases, its definitions. The Bible is complex and not univocal. The
Bible helps us to learn how to read the Bible – we read parts in the context of the whole.

Rule of Love. This is an ancient principle for reading Scripture. Not only do we read
Scripture in light of Scripture, but when confronted with disputed texts and complex
passages, we commit ourselves to taking the most loving interpretation of those texts. The
truth is that we all interpret Scripture when we read it. There are not some who simply
read Scripture and some who interpret it. We all interpret it. So we need guidance in how
to do that. And the church has always taught and always been committed to the rule of love
– always favor the most loving interpretation.

Rule of Christ. Another principle for reading Scripture that Presbyterians have been guided
by is the rule of Christ. What that means is we use Christ as a lens through which we read
Scripture. So just as we allow Scripture to help us read Scripture, and just as we try to read
according to the rule of love, we also try to read difficult passages in light of the life, ministry,
death, and resurrection of Christ. We try to understand scripture by starting with Jesus –
because we believe that Jesus reveals to us who God is, is God. So, we try to take the
interpretation that is most consistent with what we know of Christ as he is witnessed to in
Scripture.
And here is what I see about Christ in Scripture:
Nowhere, nowhere, can I find a place where Jesus Christ excludes anyone. Nowhere do I see him
refusing to extend the blessing of God to anyone, or telling anyone they cannot participate in the
promises of God. Instead, I see him calling all people, regardless of who they are – and often in
spite of who they are – to be disciples, to claim the promises of God, to experiecing the love of God
which has the power to transform us – all of us – into the people we have been called to be.
A lot of people like to talk about "inclusivity" when they talk about Jesus' ministry, and the way
our ministry should reflect his ministry, particularly when we are talking about things like
homosexuality. And while inclusion is important, I want to go a step further, and say that actually,
Jesus' ministry wasn't just one of inclusion, but of belonging. All have a place in the ministry of
God. All can be transformed by God's love. All can be disciples.
Jesus doesn't just break boundaries to "include" people, but to call all people to belong to God.
What I love so much about Jesus, the part of Jesus that I think is most compelling and most
challenging, and why I want to follow him, is that Jesus prefers to be with those who have been
traditionally left out, misunderstood, shamed, stigmatized, or made to feel different. Really, he
prefers to be with those who are on the margins.
But what is so interesting, is that when Jesus does this, when he is present to those on the margins,
he fundamentally shifts the margins, so that those who were once on the margins are now at the
center of the kingdom of God. This is amazing to me.
In light of all of this, but particularly in light of this Jesus, it has become increasingly difficult for
me to read Scripture in a way that excludes gay people from marriage, and from celebrating their
marriages in the church. That is where I am. I know that some of you are really, really
disappointed to here me say that. And I want to thank you for hearing me say it with love and
mutual forbearance.
VIII. I take a high view of marriage, in accordance with our Reformed heritage, which is why I
support the celebration of Christian marriage for all couples who would seek to take those public
vows.
Presbyterians have always believed that every aspect of life can be used to glorify God. No matter
what you do for a living, that can be a vocation. No matter who you are, you are a part of the
priesthood of all believers. We believe that God wants to work in and through the sum total of
your life to change your life and to change this world. And we believe that marriage itself is a
vocation, and that more than that, marriage is intended to support our Christian vocation. So,
spouses have been given to one another, not just for enjoyment and happiness, which is a part of
the picture, but also to support and challenge one another in faithful living and service to the
whole human family. That is a hallmark of the Christian marriage: it is intended for the upbuilding
of the couple, but also for the service and care of the world.
I want all people who feel so called to the vocation of marriage, who want to claim God's promises
and God's grace in their most important relationship, to be able to do that. Being asked to officiate at
a wedding is such a great joy and honor, because oyu get "front row" seats as two people commit to
loving each other in this way, and as God commits to love and sustain them in their vows. You are
part of the community of people who surround two people on their wedding day to support and
celebrate with them and that is an honor. So, when a couple comes to me to ask me to marry them, I
want to say yes, regardless of their genders.
[To me, this is a matter of pastoral integrity, too: It pains me to think that, for any member of this
church, I as a pastor would say yes to bless them as a newborn in the hospital, baptize, give bibles,
confirm, collect their pledges/gifts to the church, and bury them when they die, but when asked to
marry them, I would have to say, "We cannot do it in this sanctuary where you have made your
spiritual home."]2
IX. I've shared with you now my pastoral and theological convictions on this. But now, I'm also a
mother to a baby girl. And as a mother, I want her to be raised in a church in which she feels she
belongs, regardless of her sexual orientation. I want her to know beyond the shadow of a doubt
that all of her is loved, accepted, and relevant to her life of faith. At the beginning of my remarks, I
acknowledged that human sexuality is a realm of our lives where we can have good/healthy
experiences or we can have bad/unhealthy/dangerous experiences. I want Margaret to be a part
of a church that helps her think about her sexuality as a place where she is called to express and
experience love, grace, mutuality, tenderness. And as a mother who is also a pastor, I want
Margaret to be proud of my leadership in the church, and I want her to be confident that she
This section is in []s because I forgot to say it on Nov 15th, but was a part of my
outline.
2
would belong to the community I am serving (and not just be included in it) if she is gay, and that
she could bring her friends to come and participate and be welcomed, too.
I also want every youth in every church I serve to know that they can come and talk to pastors
about their sexuality, and that we will err on the side of grace instead of shame. So if any child is
wrestling with these things, they can feel confident in sharing those wrestlings with their pastors.
I know that all of you won't agree with me or my conclusions about same sex marriage in the
church. And that's okay from where I sit. I am comfortable in diversity on this topic, and it won't
diminish my ministry to you. The point is that I want to love all members of the congregation in
the same way, with equality of love and purpose. So, I am happy for you to know where I am on
this, and I value and respect where you are on this journey, too.
Thank you for your prayers for the task force, for your pastors, for the Session, for this church…