Veidah 5774
Present at Veidah: Alex Carpenter (AC), Asher Fingerhut (AF), Amit Milo (AM), Adam Steinberg (AS),
Avi Stone (AT), Alex Zur (AZ), Ben Combe (BC),Ben Leibowitz (BL), Bethany Stone (BS), Cam Levy (CL),
Daisy Bogod (DB), Dan Pollock (DP), Dan Squire (DS), Ellie Lawson (EL), Graham Carpenter (GC),
Gabriel Webber (GW), Helen Aron (HA), Harly Joe Coutts (HJC), Issy Schmidt (IS), Josh Alston (JA), Joe
Bloom (JB), Jonty Leibowitz (JL), Jordan Marsh (JM), Jodie Simmons (JS), Josh Powell (JP), Kezia Pugh
(KP), Lily Aarons (LA), Lee Steinberg (LS), Laurence Suckling (LU), Maddie Fleming (MF), Miriam
Steiner (MS), Matt Unerman (MU), Mara West (MW), Oliver Whiteside (OW), Josh Pugh (PJ),
Rebekah Henriques (RH), Rachel Shahar (RL), Robert Simmons (RS), Tom Francies (TF), Tarne Fidler
(TFi), Simon Lovick (SL), Simmie Stone (SS), Sarah Walton (SW), Sydney Levy (SY), Zara Tobias (ZT)
Asepha 1: Opening Motions
Present in the asepha: AC, JS, DS, RL, CL, LA, JM, MU,AS, RH, BC, GC, MW, JA, AZ, JB, BS, GW, RS, SY,
AF, MS, AM, OW, DP, TF, DB
Chair: TF, Minutes: DB
Motion 1: Movement workers have the right to speak
OW: POO – MoWos can’t vote in this
Proposition – JA: they’re part of the movement like everyone else and might have valuable things to
say.
Opposition – DS: what do you call a cheese that doesn’t belong to you? Nacho cheese! MoWos have
lots of power in the movement anyway so it could be giving them too much power if they have the
right to speak etc. on Veidah as well
MU: they know everything about events so should be able to offer their opinions
BC: MoWos work with LJY everyday whereas we don’t so they should be able to present points if
they’re valid
MS: if they’re given the same right as everyone else (i.e. 1 vote) it’s fair; they can provide logistical as
well as ideological contributions
DP: it makes me really sad when Graham can’t speak 
Move to vote
For: 22
Against: 1
Abstentions: 0
Motion passes
Veidah 5774
Motion 2: Movement workers have the right to vote
Proposition – MU: it would be a shame if they can’t vote because they’re really experienced
Opposition – BC: MoWos have to actually carry out the motion; if they oppose it then it would make
it harder for them to do their job
GC: if Veidah voted for something we would do it regardless of whether we personally agree. We’re
still members of the movements
JA: they’re practically running it day-to-day so should be able to vote
MU: you can have an opinion without voting – it’s more important that they can speak than that
they can vote
List closes and move to vote (POO – MoWos still can’t vote)
For: 20
Against: 1
Abstentions: 2
Motion passes
Motion 3: For all motions, the chair will close the list 10 minutes after it is first opened. They must
announce that the list is being closed and at this point may, at their discretion and considering any
advice given to them by the Veidah tsevet, invite people to join the list. This motion will be
reviewed during the first asepha of every Veidah.
Proposition – OW: 10 mins is a somewhat arbitrary time limit; amendments are welcome.
Opposition – JA: I don’t think there should be a time limit because sometimes valid points will be
being made after 15 mins etc. and sometimes we don’t need that long
POC – MU: does it have to be 10 mins or can it be less? (Answer – it can be less)
BC: for especially constitutional motions we need lots of time to properly discuss. We should have a
second event late on in the year if we don’t have time to discuss everything, but I’ll propose that as a
proper motion later
OW: there is no order to motions so some trivial ones can be discussed for others and important
ones can be left to the end where there isn’t enough time. Having the chair decide is effectively
what we have at the moment; we need a strict time limit or some sort of straw poll to decide
GW: putting a time limit will cause more problems. Proposing an amendment that the list will be
closed after 50% of the people present on the asepha have been on the list if they wish
Unfriendly – side list opens to discuss the amendment
MS: this amendment means that the people who are most passionate about motions won’t be able
to discuss it for as long as they want
AZ: if there are 5 people passionately discussing something could it just keep going on forever?
Everyone: no….
Veidah 5774
GC: sometimes more than half the people in the room want to speak – if they come to Veidah they
should be able to speak. This is a problem but this isn’t the solution
BC: any limitation on debate is bad
DS: this amendment and the whole motion can be solved by saying it needs to be at the chairs
discretion. People are fine with staying up late to discuss motions: deal with it. Maybe we should
decide which motions we will discuss ‘after hours’ so people can decide if they want to participate
The side list is closed
MW: I’d rather that something was over discussed than under discussed and we reach a conclusion
that isn’t representative of the movement
OW: agree, but if we over discuss some motions others will inevitably be under discussed. Also the
chair is often bad.
Move to vote on the amendment
GC: POI – this is basically voting on whether you would rather Ollie’s motion or Gabriel’s motion
For: 8
Against: 13
Abstentions: 2
Amendment fails. Return to the original list
TF: POC – does this 10 mins include amendments? (Answer: no, but if you want to do that get
someone to propose something including it then go for it)
BC: POC – wait so does the timer stop when you’re making an amendment? (No)
MS: proposing an amendment that after the 10 min limit (and all the points have been made) then
the list should be reopened at the chair’s digression for another 5-10 mins
Unfriendly – another side list is opened...
GW: how is that different from the current way? What if after the further 5 mins more people want
to speak? (Answer: final deadline. Sucker)
OW: I don’t think it’s necessary to separate it like this (i.e. initial points and responding points) – and
this isn’t relevant to this motion
DS: it sounds like people are in general against this entire motion… and everything we’re suggesting
is coming down to the chair having digression.
POO – (blind) straw poll on whether we think there should be any kind of time limit/restriction on
discussing motions
For: 6
Against: 14
Abstentions: 3
Side list closes. Move to vote on MS’s amendment
Veidah 5774
For: 6
Against: 7
Abstentions: 10
Amendment fails. Back to the original list which immediately closes
SY: this is a silly motion – just use the POO seat to suggest that we should move to vote as we’ve
been discussing it for ages
Proposition – OW: this has taken 25 mins 45 secs which is way too long. Also, no one has used the
POO chair so Sydney shush
Opposition – JA: who cares? This has been a valuable discussion even though it’s taken ages
Move to vote
For: 2
Against: 15
Abstentions: 3
Motion fails
BS: POI – there’s broken glass on the floor so be careful!
Asepha 2: Motion Box
Present in the asepha: AC, JS, DS, RL, CL, LA, JM, MU, AS, RH, BC, GC, MW, JA, AZ, JB, BS, GW, RS, SY,
AF, MS, AM, OW, DP, JL, SL, TF, DB, HJC
Chair: HJC, Minutes: DB
Motion 4: To instate the High Holy Days event as a staple LJY-Netzer event occurring every year
Proposition – AC: it was super awesome this year and should happen every year!!!!!!
JL: POC – for those who weren’t there, what happened? (GC explains)
Opposition – DS: maybe it should be at the discretion of the MoWos (so this is a stupid motion)
OW: POO – that sounds like an amendment not an opposition…
GC: the event was a success, it was a great idea, and it worked this year. However, due to Kadimah
dates this year, it might be impractical and the MoWo team might not have enough time to organise
it. Basically it should happen but bear in mind that it is logistically difficult
BC: having more one day events is great and stops LJY-Netzer from being solely an annual/biannual
event
Veidah 5774
LA: it should depend year by year on how many people sign up – which can be affected by things like
Uni dates
AC: POI – it can be on any nearby date in order to allow people to go if they have prior commitments
on the actual HHD
RS: what Alex said – we should do it whenever we can
DP: Amendment – the age group should be extended (as it’s such a great and important event) from
Galim and Bogrim to the whole movement
(GC: one of the good things was that it wasn’t in a synagogue, so you could make the decision
(somewhat spontaneously) to go. It makes it more attractive to older people – and for younger
people it’s necessary to have more structure)
Amendment is unfriendly. A side list is opened to discuss the amendment
MU: young years might be hard to get there – if small numbers also feel excluded. Don’t want nosey
parents!
LA: there are kids’ services at shuls they can go to
BC: Amendment – what about multiple ones for different shikvot? Oh no wait that’s stupid
SL: it’s hard to make an event all age friendly
DP: just because it’s a big event doesn’t necessarily need to be in a synagogue. I don’t think it’s
impossible to make a service cater for all ages, just needs to be taken into consideration
JM: lots of people = chaos and complication!
AC: the whole point of making this event was so people our age could engage in HHD services. I feel
like it should stay as G&B because it’s easier to make a service that caters for them than everyone
ideologically and logistically.
SL: line between leaders and participants would be blurred – dugma etc. and so might lose appeal
for G&B
MU: it’s more appealing to older people anyway
Side list is closed
GW: this should be a time for us because there’s nothing for us in shuls. We can improve stuff for
younger LJY-Netzer members ourselves and need this for ourselves
Vote on the amendment
For: 1
Against: 22
Abstentions: 3
Amendment fails. Move back to original list, which is closed. KP, PJ and El have entered (but can’t
vote). Move to vote on original motion
For: 24
Veidah 5774
Against: 0
Abstentions: 3
Motion passes
Motion 5: LJY-Netzer should boycott Amazon
OW: POC – tax evasion? Tax invasion??!
MS: POC – how much do LJY use Amazon? (A lot)
MW: POC – do you have a suggestion of an alternative? (Anything else!!!)
Proposition – JL: I think that it’s a lot of work to boycott them, but it can be done. Maybe someone
will propose an amendment about trying it out and seeing if it works, but we should definitely
explore the possibility of this boycott because Amazon are awful and we’re ideological. Woooooo.
Opposition – TF: I think the point of the ethical consumerism facebook group etc. is for people to
come to the MoWos and say that we shouldn’t buy from companies such as Amazon, rather than
make a downright boycott.
LA: Amazon is cheaper and far more convenient for the MoWos. Also the whole thing about Amazon
being bad because of zero hour contracts is not necessarily true
MU: too convenient to boycott, maybe we could limit our buying from them, but too essential to
actually do anything
GW: we don’t rely on zero hour contracts for a living. They’re exploitative. I don’t think they’re too
big to boycott #teamebay. Amendment – we should lobby LJ to also boycott them.
Friendly amendment. Woo! Motion now reads: LJY-Netzer should boycott Amazon and lobby LJ to
do the same
DS: I thought the point of the EC va’ad was to find material throughout the year? We need to
consider all the options and how practical it is – we can’t boycott everything. Maybe we should
educate on the problems of it so in personal lives people might use it less, but on events when it is
vital for practicality we can use it
JM: boycotting something like coca-cola is easy. Boycotting something that we use a lot is actually
meaningful and making a much bigger statement about what we believe in.
CL: when we boycott things it should be a statement of how we live our lives. Amazon would be
done much more behind the scene (it’s down to the MoWos who are ordering things)
MS: there’s nothing in our ideology about workers’ rights. If we start boycotting Amazon how do we
know we won’t be then supporting another company that is just as bad?
AZ: AC you go.
AC: I disagree with the idea of it being too convenient for us not to boycott. That’s stupid.
OW: there are lots of companies guilty of similar/worse crimes than Amazon. By evading tax they’re
reducing funding to this horrible thing (HMRC) and so I’m proposing an amendment that the bit
about tax evasion isn’t in the motion.
Veidah 5774
Everyone: it isn’t actually part of the motion
JL: why are we discussing tax evasion? Let’s assume for a minute that we like tax and accept that it is
a necessary part of life… It’s not our thing to debate. Don’t go to Veidah go to Parliament! I don’t like
the idea that education is our duty. We should be doing things! Nothing’s too big for us to do ;).
Amazon doesn’t control the world so it can definitely be done. I don’t think you need to be left-wing
or a nice person to think that workers deserve rights… if that isn’t tikkun olam then what is tikkun
olam?!
OW: POI – you’re wrong
BS: I attend JSAF and we had a great speaker on ethical consumerism stuff. She told us about how
boycotting isn’t particularly effective and raising awareness is the way to go. There are things we can
actively do rather than boycotting, which is logistically difficult etc., such as petitioning.
AZ: I think the problem with boycotting Amazon is that it isn’t a simple provider of goods. By
boycotting Amazon we could be affecting small 3rd parties which would be bad
JA: if we try to petition against Amazon without boycotting them we are hypocrites. And I think
buying through Amazon is much worse for small businesses as it’s put many of them out of business.
List is closed
GC: it would definitely cost quite a lot more money to not buy from Amazon
JM: we shouldn’t say that we can try this out and if it’s awful then we can review it at Veidah next
year. If we’re going to try it out we should put something in the motion about what to do if we run
out of money and have no resources…
LA: Amazon provides cheap delivery. Woo! I don’t think the chanichim would care if we educated
them on it as it has no effect on them
DS: I don’t think it’s mutually exclusive to buy from a company and educate on it. We educate about
the bad side of Israel but don’t boycott it because we want to change it. I think we need to think
about what our primary aim is for Kadimah. Is it to have a great time? Or to teach the chanichim
ideological things? I think making sure camp is as good as it can be is much more important than
boycotting Amazon
MU: electronic books have taken bookshops out of business, not Amazon. Btw.
JL: more research and explore it more and suggest to people running Kadimah that they try and use
alternatives. Strongly worded letter to the MoWos saying that we should try our hardest to not use
it. So, amendment: Veidah should strongly suggest to whoever runs events that Amazon is
considered unethical and should only be used when all alternatives have been exhausted.
Amendment is unfriendly. A side list is opened.
SL: too vague and leaves too much for interpretation. Boycotting isn’t so much about what we will
achieve from boycotting but about showing the stance we take.
CL: we shouldn’t make this Kadimah-centric
GW: I think it’s 100% possible not to use Amazon. There are shops in rural England (apparently). If it
doesn’t work then it’s not a vague cop-out – I think it could work
Veidah 5774
GC: speaking as an ex-resources person and current MoWo, the question I ask myself is do I have
enough time to do this? And the answer is no.
BC: If we had a dedicated resources person for every event it would lessen the burden
DS: I don’t think boycotting is the way. Educating is more effective – this is what the ethical
consumerism motion is for!
DP: boycotts should be reserved for things that have entirely negative connotations. By boycotting
coke the only thing we lose out on is not drinking coke on events; boycotting Amazon has many
more negative connotations. I think we should educate for a year and then next Veidah decide
whether we want to boycott it.
JL: I’m all for the boycott but I feel like we haven’t discussed it ideologically enough, only logistically,
and so we shouldn’t make a blasé decision. We all like being ethical.
AC: Point of Kef – everyone shake out your legs and hug your neighbours!!
Move to vote on the amendment
For: 16
Against: 5
Abstentions: 8
Amendment passes and the motion now reads: Veidah should strongly suggest to whoever runs
events that Amazon is considered unethical and should only be used when all alternatives have
been exhausted
Move to vote on the new motion
For: 17
Against: 8
Abstentions: 4
Motion passes
Asepha 3: Past Motions Review
Present in the asepha: AC, JS, DS, RL, CL, LA, JM, MU, AS, RH, BC, GC, MW, JA, AZ, JB, BS, GW, RS, SY,
AF, MS, AM, DP, JL, TF, KP, PJ, EL, HJC, OW, SL
Big man Simon Lovick does the minutes, Ashman swag on the list, bossman junior Ollie Whiteside is
chairing. #2k14 #startasyoumeantogoon
Asher’s an idiot and doesn’t know everyone’s names and so wastes time by asking everyone.
ASHER IS OFFICIALLY ROSH, SHUT UP. For all motions the list is opened then immediately closed.
Voting on whether to reaffirm or discard.
1992:3
Veidah 5774
RS: Creative services don’t necessarily have the shema in them. Should be down to the discretion of
whoever is writing the service.
DS: Proposed amendment that this applies only to a Shacharit service.
JL: No point in amending it – there’s a vibe, let’s ride that vibe.
DB: There is a point in amending it.
OW: POO – all must be reaffirmed or discarded, if you want to amend, propose a new motion
Reaffirm: 3
Discard: 14
Abstentions: 4
Motion discarded
1992: 4
Reaffirm: 2
Discard: 16
Abstentions: 3
Motion discarded
1992: 13
DS: We do it all anyway, we don’t really need a rule to tell us to do it.
Reaffirm: 0
Discard: 9
Abstentions: 9
Motion discarded
1992: 15
MS: Don’t think there is enough reference to the haftarah, and this is important.
JL: same as the motions before, about us deciding what to put in the service.
GW: Slightly different, still leaves room for creativity.
JL: Shouldn’t have to conform to a rule.
DS: Shouldn’t be mandated, should maybe just be encouraged, but still left to the discretion.
MS: If we aren’t doing this, what are we doing?
Veidah 5774
LA: Not up to the madrichim to decide what sessions there are, it’s just how to run them.
Reaffirm: 3
Discard: 9
Abstentions: 5
Motion discarded
1992: 17
AZ: Pirke Avot is a bit too traditional, not really what we stand for.
GW: Not what PA is about, actually quite relevant source.
DS: Shouldn’t be mandated, but still relevant
Reaffirm: 0
Discard: 17
Abstentions: 1
Motion discarded
1993: 8
DS: We now have an optional added extra on the prices, not necessary, we already have
mechanisms in place.
LA: We don’t do it that often, but we still do do (haha do do) it.
Reaffirm: 1
Discard: 6
Abstentions: 9
Motion discarded
1993: 12
DS: Weekends are packed full enough already, not a good idea to have more mandated sessions on
them.
JM: Shouldn’t be mandated, but just a suggestion.
DS: Should be an option for longer events.
Camswag (CL): blah
Reaffirm: 0
Discard: 14
Veidah 5774
Abstentions: 3
Motion discarded
1993: 13
DS: If we think it is relevant to our movement, someone should bring forward an AIDS charity.
JL: Not the same socially as before. Not really as much of an issue now, just seems to niche.
JM: Disagree with motion, but disagree that it’s not a big issue – we should speak about it before.
JB: We could get someone from every illness, but we can’t – it seems impractical to be so specific.
JL: Obviously still a big issue, but LJY has changed since then
LA: Don’t know what the education was like, but education about AIDS is pretty good now
Reaffirm: 0
Discard: 14
Abstentions: 1
Motion discarded
1993: 16
GW: At a time when it was difficult to get hands on info about Israel.
LA: Is there a blog? What about a chinuch article?
Reaffirm: 0
Discard: 11
Abstentions: 2
Motion discarded
1993: 18
LA: there would be people who no longer have an opportunity to go on shnat, would be pointless for
them.
TF: There is going to be a session about Shnat about what our movement wants from this.
Reaffirm: 0
Discard: 16
Abstentions: 2
Motion discarded
Veidah 5774
1993: 21
MS: Would be good to share information with other movements – by interacting we can educate
about our own ideology
TF: there are other movements than RSY
AF: I went on Shnat apparently. There are so many other movements which I learnt about on shnat,
and it’s cool to find out more by meeting other movements.
TF: on tour seminar, you meet loads of people who are like you, but slightly different. The ZYC is an
opportunity to meet other such people.
MS: by reaffirming this, we would have more of a commitment to things like the ZYC.
Reaffirm: 10
Discard: 0
Abstentions: 8
Motion reaffirmed
1993: 23
GW: (explains what mazkirut is) not sure what it was
TF: used to be a committee, now it isn’t
Reaffirm: 0
Discard: 17
Abstentions: 2
Motion discarded
1993: 25
BC: everyone’s going to vote against it
LA: it’s like having to pay 13 grand to be a part of the movement
Reaffirm: 1
Discard: 18
Abstentions: 0
Motion discarded
Veidah 5774
Asepha 4: Theme of the Year
Present in the asepha: AC, JS, DS, RL, CL, LA, JM, MU, AS, RH, BC, GC, MW, JA, AZ, JB, BS, GW, RS, SY,
AF, MS, AM, DP, JL, TF, KP, PJ, EL, HJC, OW, SL, TFi, SW, BL, AS, DB
Chair: GW, Minutes: GC
Motion 6: TOTY
TF: Israel: The Good the Bad and the Awkward. Israel education is good but could be better. Should
have a focus this year. Sometimes we overlook the good. So keen on presenting both sides
sometimes we forget that Israel does do a lot of good. Should celebrate otherwise what’s the point
of being Zionist. Israel obviously does bad; awkward is questions that we don’t really know how to
answer. What is reform Zionism? Was the establishment of the state ok? Etc.
MU: The World and You. Making it more personal.
DS: Jewish Role Models. Has a focus but is also open ended enough. Can talk biblical, famous Jews,
Jews in the media, can tell stories which help people retain info in the long term
GC: Mitzvah Goreret Mitzvah
CL: Practical Tikkun: People forget that there is all these different ways of tikkuning, getting more
specific. Practical because we spend a lot of time talking about changing the world, ethical,
promotes social action stuff. Coming off of last year Tzedek tzedek tir dof was very scripture based.
Open to interpretation, change in the world around the world, very open theme.
AC: all the Jewish studying that we do is on Israel. Wanna talk about and focus on the Diaspora and
the problems affecting Jews around the world and not just in Israel.
KP: POC – Jews of the world Theme.
GW: Theme was done in like 2007 but it’s cool. No one will remember it other than me and the
MoWos
SL: The future. History is interesting, might have a lot of relevance, but some people can’t connect in
the way you can with aspirations of the future. What is the future of Judaism and our movement? It
could be interesting.
The opposite is roots: Not the same as history. It’s more of a personal thing, or roots of the
movement.
JL: Political Judaism. We do so much stuff that’s almost political but as soon as we get near political
everyone backs out. Maybe we want to change the world with politics. Not saying LJY should join
UKIP.
DP: POC – wasn’t there a motion saying we are a political. (No but we are a political)!
JL: We don’t engage with proper politics.
DP: The year that we did God & Spirituality, spirituality was severely neglected. We should connect
to Judaism through unconventional spirituality.
Veidah 5774
MU: Jew & You.
GW: 10 themes in total. Open the list to discuss. To be done in turn.
Captain Kef: I am Batkef. Everyone has to talk in a bat voice.
1. Israel: the Good the Bad and the Awkward
DP: Although Israel is an important topic, we have had a charity of the year for that last two years.
Making it theme of the year makes it compulsory for every event. We should avoid.
BC: Every LJY event has a lot of Israel discussion; we’re always going to talk about it. We should use
this as a chance to talk about something else.
MS: Could be counterproductive.
MU: Awkward bit could be hard to answer, leading to rubbish sessions.
TF: In response to the two years: It has been focusing on something bad and good. Ways of
overcoming conflict. Israel education on every event could be better. Having a year’s focus on
getting everyone’s knowledge up to scratch could be really helpful as a whole. The themes idea is so
that there isn’t a focus. Plan the journey into events. Get a sense of the country as a whole. The
whole awkward political thing – we do it for vegetarianism and other stuff.
2. The world, the Jew & You
MU: I personally think it’s a brilliant theme and that the creator is gifted.
DP: My worry is that there is not going to be much variation.
EL: Young chanichim may not know that much about their past.
MU: Look at the whole world as well as Judaism – saying to people that you are a bigger part of the
world.
DS: Split into those three parts, there’s basically nothing that doesn’t come under this. There is not
enough distinction to feel like this is making a distinction to camps: my main worry.
BC: That is an issue. Having a more introspective theme is more important. It’s an important part of
what LJY can do, we should address more.
3. Jewish Stories
CL: I think this is a great theme, probably better than mine. It’s very diverse, equal opportunity to
talk about bible stories with contemporary role models, science music. We did God, done justice, it’s
more light-hearted. Younger chanichim will be more open to these stories in that sense.
MU: Torah side is a bit boring. To repeat them for two weeks won’t be good.
SL: The problem with this theme is that it’s a bit limited in what it might produce. Not very generic
and might be a bit samey. It’s something that we would do anyway under another theme.
Veidah 5774
DP: Having the theme as Jewish studies is very case study based. Every sesh looks at a story. They’re
played out again and again. It should be wide enough that the style can be different every time.
AT: I like that it’s about people specifically and people can relate to it, even though we would have
to work harder on sessions.
LU: Not limiting, there is Mishnah and apocrypha as well as torah. Sessions would be hard though.
TF: Talk about modern Jewish stories, my worry would be that people would pick role models who
happened to be Jewish rather than do anything with their Judaism.
BC: Disagree about limitations from a story perspective. All of Kayitz was walking around hearing
stories, etc. Who founded LJ in the style of a murder mystery.
DS: Even on Kadimah, the TOTY is not every session. Even if some case studies, there would not be
too much.
DP: POC – I’m not saying just Kadimah, there are a lot of people who come on more than one event.
I may get 5 different events with the same stories. There’s a danger of people getting the same kind
of structure event every time.
DS: You can talk about torah, but there are many other stories: Eastern European folklore, modern
Israel and Zionism... Discuss the good and the bad… I don’t think that it’s too constrictive if you go
into it looking creatively.
4. Mitzvah Goreret Mitzvah
JL: What does it mean?
GC: 1 good deed leads to another good dead
MS: 1 commandment leads to another
JL: Name is better than the idea.
MU: I struggle to see how it would be run
TF: practical rather than educational
GC: Should not be interpreted as good deeds lead to good deeds. Chance to reaffirm are ideology
what makes us members.
5. Practical Tikkun
DP: I like this one: introspective. We have this focus on tikkun olam; never talk about the concentric
circles which lead up to it. Tikkun olam is a core part of our sessions.
SL: Might be repeating stuff we already do.
MS: Won’t be able to do anything practical.
LU: Incredibly difficult to pull of social action on camp. I like the idea of being able to do practical
tikkun whilst being on camp.
Veidah 5774
CL: Just because something’s different doesn’t mean we should do it. Tikkun could mean keeping fit
as well as going out in the world. Not a problem that it’s practical over scriptural. Tikkun olam is a
huge part of this movement, and putting more emphasis on it is no bad thing.
6. Jews of the world
AC: We do talk about our ideology on camp. The rest of the world doesn’t really get much attention
in comparison. Would be nice to educate on what else is going on in the world.
DP: Everything that’s included in Jews of the World is included in Jewish stories or more.
Simon: Could easily boil down to ‘oh did you know there are Jews here…’ It’s breadth not depth.
7. The Future
MU: The fun theme a few years ago was space, and it was great.
JL: The future doesn’t necessarily mean space.
MU: Unless you’re going to make it up then it’s going to be a lot of rubbish.
TF: The future is a great theme for liberal Judaism. How can we change and evolve. There is no
problem.
BC: Espesh with Israel themed sessions, we spend so long focusing on the problem and not the
solution. Look at the future of how we can influence Israel etc.
SL: The future is mine to hold could be the tagline of this theme. The future has so much potential.
AS: Good theme for fun stuff too
8. Roots
LA: I like the idea of having a ‘roots before branches’ theme, how does our history affect our growing
– should combine!
9. Political Judaism
JL: By being on LJY we are all politically minded people. One culture that we have had which is
rubbish – were not going to talk about traditional politics. We always stop short. Great political
stories in the bible. Mentions communism… 80% Bolsheviks were Jews… it’s all incredible. What
does reform Zionism actually mean after some slogans? Should not be a case of just you should vote
for… etc... It’s our role as educators to make it interesting. Some of these themes of the year are too
broad. The theme of the year should be a bit of flavour added to a number of sessions. Should be
something a bit different we have not looked at before. Should not be generic. Let’s smash it.
OLI: POI - I still think your wrong (not a POI)
Veidah 5774
DP: Some people/ chanichim just are not politically minded. It’s like having a mandatory politics Alevel if we are having forced sessions about politics. Going to be difficult to get people who aren’t
engaged to be engaged.
BC: Everyone over the age of 18 has a right to vote. Everyone is intrinsically involved it. It happens. It
will be difficult not to get their views across. However, even leaders who aren’t vegetarian can talk
about it.
SL: I disagree with the fact that not everyone would get involved. The term political Judaism is quite
a vague term that a lot of people would find hard to grasp. Divisive and controversial could confuse
rather than clarify.
DS: Agree that it needs to add flavour. Disagree that other themes are generic. When you have such
a wide topic it's up to the leaders to get it. You’re welcome to come on my tsevet this summer and
try
MU: Some people don’t care about politics. On the first hadracha weekend there was a well good
politics session so it can be done well.
JL: A theme of the year should be controversial and divisive. Should get people thinking. Jewish
stories is fantastic because everyone could do what they want. You want people to come away from
camp knowing what the theme of the year. Sometimes when it’s that vague it just passes you by.
Let’s call it something fun like Judaism gets political! We never take the last step, applying it to the
real world. Not necessarily a level, but give it a real world application. We are so religious that we
can’t have any extreme views, but there should be an awareness of these debates happening. E.g.
Communist service on Kayitz. Whole world of interesting stuff we don’t think about. Israel is a place
and has history. Not everyone did history/geography/re but we still do it in Israel. Just because some
people don’t find it interesting we can make it interesting. It is shameful the amount that people
don’t know that much about politicians. Politics is absolutely crying out for interesting and engaged
people and LJY could provide it.
10. Unconventional Spirituality
MU: I quite like it. We could do creative stuff. GO MENTAL.
Simon: Matt has illustrated it nicely. Creative stuff is stuff we already do. Not so much a theme but a
description of things we already like. Don’t need a theme to tell us what we already do.
DP: A lot of people on LJY never experience anything other than Liberal Judaism. There are other
forms out there that aren’t taking a radical view and are more traditional. I have grown up in
orthodox education and told how it was meant to be the whole time. It gives leaders a chance to
show themselves. If you aren’t interested in politics then you can’t convey your passion to the
chanichim. If you’re interested in Art then you could do that, or writing, so many ways to experience
Judaism. Not just prayer, but general experience. Name is not step in stone.
DS: ON god and spirituality, the most enjoyable thing was running creative prayer under the theme.
Take spirituality out.
SL: Call it unconventionality.
Call it meditations.
Veidah 5774
JA: Might be too similar to God & Spirituality and we might just do the same things.
JL: POO how we going to do it?
GW: Decide a final three. Everyone gets three votes. I’m not just going to say VOTE!
Voting – you can vote for up to three
1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.
Israel: the Good the Bad and the Awkward.
The World , the Jew and You
Jewish Stories
Mitzvah Goreret Mitzvah
Practical Tikkun
Jews of the world
The Future
Roots
Jews get Political!
Unconventional Spirituality
Successful: Jewish Stories, Unconventional Spirituality and Jews get political!
GW: 5 mins
MU: Some of the younger children won’t get the political. Ananim… (Mass disagreement!)
JA: I think that Judaism gets political although everyone gets scared… it’s not far from what we do
already. Solutions are unlikely that companies are going to be nice. The solutions to tikkun olam
problems are political.
MS: Spirituality could be incorporated to any session. Stories can be passionate.
TF: People saying there uninterested so I don’t want to do this session is disgraceful, would not
accept it from chanichim. Everyone in this movement should have this knowledge.
BS: Politics integrates into so many different parts of life. Very relevant to young people in the world.
Don’t be put off by the word, think about issues, and not party political. Everyone could find some
issue.
TFi: It’s a platform to get people interested in politics.
SL: Could lead to a sense of discomfort, introducing themes of communism, could make people feel
uncomfortable. Disagreement is good as it is the nature of politics.
DS: Three nice ideas that showcase different sides of Judaism. Stories is much wider. Would you
rather that or have something specific? Stories has a lot of flavour, is very colourful, figureheads who
people can get behind. Younger age groups will find it more interesting than politics.
LU: If the focus of the political thing was on more social policy. It’s hard to do politics sessions. They
care about social policy. We are not just focusing on politics that no one’s knows about.
Veidah 5774
DP: I’m trying to say imagine having a tsevet where no one is particularly interested in politics, could
be awkward in allocations. Someone will end up running it and not putting their passion through. It’s
easier to convey their passion in the other two themes to politics.
EL: Absolutely everything is political. Being part of this movement, young years can see things
through a political eye. Make them talk about it and relate to them. People who don’t like politics
it’s for you to get you interested!
JL: It could definitely work with young children. Put up flags and talk about identity. Play parliament.
Look at the processes. If you’re not going to vote for politics, then vote for unconventional
spirituality. Don’t vote for Jewish stories, it’s too safe. Everything is a Jewish story. Unconventional
spirits is very engaging.
BS: POI – well quick… just in case people didn’t know rashim pick a more specific theme within that
framework for large events.
DP: I spoke a lot last night about how we have so many limitations in our lives; we can’t explore it in
the way it wants us to. This theme allows Jews to explore it in a way they haven’t done before. This
is our identity find new identities.
DS: I think the two main issues are that stories could be too wide and too repetitive. It's wide but
there are those meaty issues in there too. We can talk about Bolsheviks and Einstein the bomb,
Zionism, Warsaw ghetto, but can also talk about less political stuff:
JL: Let’s risk it for a chocolate biscuit. Im tirtzu, reform Zionism, etc. are all political. Set focus of aims
the time we are in now. If you’re brave, vote for this one.
1 vote between the three, eliminate 1 and then vote on last two.
The TOTY is Jews get Political!
Asepha 5: Motion Box
Present in the asepha: AC, JS, DS, RL, CL, LA, JM, MU, AS, RH, BC, GC, MW, JA, AZ, JB, BS, GW, RS, SY,
AF, MS, AM, DP, JL, TF, KP, PJ, EL, HJC, OW, SL, TFi, SW, BL, AS, DB
Chair: RS, Minutes DB
Motion 7: get rid of blind voting
Proposition – DP: Veidah is about trust
Opposition – MU: people’s opinions can be swayed by being in the minority
EL: this was suggested because of the asepha yesterday – time wise blind voting is bad
JM: we’re adults: we can say that we’re in a minority and be okay with that. Also, I don’t like closing
my eyes
Veidah 5774
SL: people should be proud of their opinions. We shouldn’t – and don’t – judge other people for
their opinions. It’s a small way to save time but a good one
BC: I don’t think time saving should effect the decisions we make at Veidah. Don’t want to damage
the quality of the decisions. People feel peer pressure
AS: if people don’t want their vote to be heard then we should have it
MU: personally I think if you have an opinion you should be proud of it!
SL: #effort
JL: time saving is ridiculous prop. We always root the minority and yes, people can be swayed.
JA: it’s not a lot of effort… I do it most times I go to sleep. If it makes people more comfortable we
should make the effort to lose our eyes
AC: if one person is uncomfortable by sharing their vote we should have it. If it does pass, we should
bring it up every time – amendment?
Amendment friendly
BL: if you see Veidah as being about ideas then this motion can’t be a good thing. I would never vote
publically against Jonty!!
Move to vote
For: 4
Against: 21
Abstentions: 1
Motion fails
Motion 8: A resources team should be established on mechinot, as with Aviv 2013, with at least
one dedicated resources Bog role
TF: POC – how much do the resources team do? Do they just get the resources or would it be
preparing them as well? (Generally just getting them)
Opposition – BL: it’s a huge job and you run the risk of ‘unqualified’ Bogrim taking the role. The
emphasis should be on a MoWo having a more dedicated focus on resources, not on it being a
specific role
GW: I don’t think the motion atm excludes it being a MoWo. However, it does need to be people
who don’t have anything else on their plate. It was great on Aviv [Sarah and Tom] (minus the biscuits
and cheese incident)
TF: there needs to be a closer relationship – because of stuff like budget – between the MoWo and
whoever would be filling this role.
AC: the MoWos are so busy – resources take a lot of time and effort and letting the MoWos focus on
the rest of camp would be beneficial
BC: Amendment – at least one dedicated resources officer and a MoWo as a liaison
Veidah 5774
Amendment is friendly. The motion now reads: A resources team should be established on
mechinot, as with Aviv 2013, with at least one dedicated resources Bog role and a MoWo as a
liaison
MU: more Bog roles = good
DS: it’s good to have a resources team, but if you have limited leaders it might be difficult to find
someone to fill the role. It’s a good idea but not necessarily good to mandate it
List is closed
BL: everyone agrees that we need to work out how to do resources better, but this motion is a big
deal. I think we should trust it to the MoWos how to make resources better and therefore this
doesn’t need to be a motion
TF: POI – there’s a finite amount of money in the budget for leaders; it’s possible that if this was
mandated it could mean that there would be less madrichim/bog roles
BS: this is a practical logistical thing, not an ideological thing. We don’t want to undermine Veidah
and it is useful feedback but this is essentially something for the MoWos to work out depending on
what they can do due to budget, amount of people etc.
Move to vote
For: 6
Against: 10
Abstentions: 9
Motion fails
Motion 9: That no LJY-Netzer event will include activities or sessions run by the JNF or any of its
subsidiaries; That LJY-Netzer will not accept funding which has come from the JNF, and will
endeavour to ensure that it does not fund the JNF, directly or indirectly; To educate on this motion
on Israel Tour, on any events during which chaverim enter JNF-owned land (eg. Bog Tours), and,
where convenient/appropriate, on other LJY- Netzer events; To inform Liberal Judaism, the UJIA
and Israel Experience of this motion; To write to the trustees of the JNF’s British branch, registered
charity number 225910, providing them with a copy of this motion; and To appoint a small va’ad
to monitor the activities of the JNF and to report on any change in the situation by Veidah 5775;
provided, that if there is no change then this motion shall continue in force and will be reviewed in
like fashion at every third Veidah from 5778 onwards.
Proposition – GW: the JNF displays similar behaviour to Ir David and other organisations we oppose.
We believe in a Jewish and democratic state of Israel, coexistence, equality and all these things we
get from our Reform Zionism and Liberal Judaism
JA: POC – how do we work with the JNF atm? (On Tour and Bog Tour we do minor volunteering and
stuff)
BC: POC – would this constitute a boycott? (We register discontent without making it a boycott. If
we made it a boycott some Jews will call us anti-Semitic)
Veidah 5774
BL: POC – have you considered the amount you do on Shnat with the JNF (which is quite a lot)? (No, I
haven’t. Uhoh)
TF: in response we should let the MoWos do some research on this – it might be providing funding
relevant for our existence. If it is going to be mandated we should research it first.
GW: suspend the funding sections until next year – I’ll amend my own motion
Motion now reads: That no LJY-Netzer event will include activities or sessions run by the JNF or any
of its subsidiaries; To educate on this motion on Israel Tour, on any events during which chaverim
enter JNF-owned land (eg. Bog Tours), and, where convenient/appropriate, on other LJY- Netzer
events; To inform Liberal Judaism, the UJIA and Israel Experience of this motion; To write to the
trustees of the JNF’s British branch, registered charity number 225910, providing them with a copy
of this motion; and To appoint a small va’ad to monitor the activities of the JNF and to report on
any change in the situation by Veidah 5775; provided, that if there is no change then this motion
shall continue in force and will be reviewed in like fashion at every third Veidah from 5778
onwards. This will be subject to programmes already planned and our funding becoming
unsustainable.
Opposition – MS: I think some of the things the JNF have done have been over exaggerated. There
should be a lot more information known
BL: JNF are an enormous body, and although I agree with resisting discontent I think your motion is
going further than that and we need to be careful with that and how it will affect the running of our
movement.
TF: TOTY is Jews Get Political! – Let’s get political!
MU: it’s a bit of a risky one. I think we should wait to find out the funding information before we act
upon this at all.
BC: POC – with the funding issue, if they stopped funding us by the trickledown effect would it stop
us from getting funding from other places as well? (That is an issue)
DS: Informed decision making – take a year to educate on this completely and all the effects it could
have before we pass this. Va’ad?
BL: the JNF are bad. But this could be a detrimental decision we pass quite quickly and perhaps if we
pass this and the MoWos realise (and actively research it for a month or two) that it could have
detrimental effects then they will not do it.
GW: POO – every motion has that basis
JL: amendment – set up a va’ad to investigate it all. Va’ad should include GW and some MoWos. Oh
wait, that’s what Ben said. No longer an amendment I’m okay with that.
BC: surely this is the kind of thing the MoWos should bring to Netzer Veidah?
GW: the focus shouldn’t be on informing the logistics of this – as we are all generally in agreement
that we don’t like JNF we should act upon this. But Ben has a valid point
MS: we need to know more about the JNF to be able to make this decision.
Veidah 5774
Move to vote
For: 19
Against: 0
Abstentions: 7
Motion passes
Asepha 6: Charity of the Year
Present in the asepha: AC, JS, DS, RL, CL, LA, JM, MU, AS, RH, BC, GC, MW, JA, AZ, JB, BS, GW, RS, SY,
AF, MS, AM, DP, JL, TF, KP, PJ, EL, HJC, OW, SL, TFi, SW, BL, AS, DB
Big man Lovick is back on the keys, Asher has learnt how to write and is now doing the list, and
Tommy F is now chairing the discussion.
Motion 10: COTY
Charities nominated: Playing for Change, Barnardos, Donkey Sanctuary, Refugee Council, Bone
Marrow, Kibbutz Eshbal, Jordan Valley Village and Kishrut
1. Playing for Change
LA: What are the actual real world effects of the music charity?
DP: Helps to provide instruments, build music schools in third world countries. Might not be so
direct, but is very enriching for those who are under stimulated. Music is central to LJY, and so has
particular relevance.
MU: Music is an effective way of getting a message passed on.
DP: Not just for instruments, but also for peace and for unity. It provides a message, but also has a
concept that people can be united through music. Covers popular LJY songs too
ZT: Can you tell us more about local projects?
DP: It’s American, but it is located everywhere. Encourages local events for music – we could have
our own Playing for Change day on LJY. It’s a very technologically advanced charity – music available
for download on iTunes – easy to connect to.
2. Barnardos
DP: Like the idea because of the efficiency of the charity – focused on the actual doing of the charity.
KP: Like the fact that it’s based here in the UK – harder to connect with Israel based charities of the
past.
Veidah 5774
JL: Same applies to Miriam and Issy’s charities. It’s not that we’re anti-Israel, it’s just important to
remember our British identity. There are problems close to home. Good to pick a specific project
which we can work on.
DP: Perhaps closer to a social action project – we like to be part of doing the things. Point of charity
is raising awareness and also raising funds.
BL: Something we don’t know a lot about, the poverty closer to home, while we know more about
the problems in Israel – not as relevant or closely connected. More of a connection to those we live
closer to. Also a strong ethic to thinking and working locally – value of thinking locally means that
the charity can stay with you for the whole year
IS: Its locality means it could be a good SAP – we could do trips to the projects. I don’t know how
positive it is to be able to choose where the money and effort goes – shouldn’t be about your own
satisfaction, should be more about the idea of helping.
AS: More of a reassurance that it’s not going to be lost somewhere. The focus can change for
Barnardos to allow fresh education.
JB: Good to see where money goes – still nice to see that you’re directly helping someone. So easy to
help in different ways – we can by some more dressing up stuff at their shops.
3. Donkey Sanctuary
DP: Not just about the upkeep, but about the people going to work there.
OW: That is actual the charities sister charity, which shares a lot of donkeys. It’s a charity for children
and donkeys. It actually mixes the two – uses the donkeys to help children with disabilities.
JL: Sure this is a worthwhile cause, if we had unlimited funds. But obviously we can’t help out
everything – it should be about priorities, and donkeys are probably lower down on our priorities
than other things.
LA: There are charities which are broader, not just the donkeys.
OW: They are also directly helping those in developing countries which rely on donkeys.
DP: Donkeys are really cute.
MU: Music is a better outlet of emotion than donkeys, so Dan’s is more valid.
4. Refugee Council
GW: Does anyone read the JC? They had an article about how refugees aren’t relevant to us. This is
clearly a big issue to the Jewish community – we are in danger of making ourselves look ridiculous.
Most of us were at one stage refugees. We can do something direct to help this charity.
MS: This is relevant to our theme of the year – doing something which the government isn’t doing,
and affirms our commitment to political change.
RS: Very important – helps children who can’t speak the language.
Veidah 5774
IS: Accommodation is so important as there aren’t enough places to stay while asylum applications
are processed. They get stolen into slavery and sex trafficking. It's a really valid cause to su
BL: No one can doubt how worthy the issue is, but it seems that it is quite distant. Can we help
without seeming patronising, or sending our money off somewhere else.
MS: They are British, so we can see the work they do. Also it relies only on funding, so it’s not like a
SAP. It’s geographically close to home, but also relevant to our identity.
ZT: Just wondering what you think are the ways in which we can educate our leaders – important
that all our madrichim are well informed on it.
GW: In terms of the learning issue, we can get speakers and lawyers to inform us, and also our
chanichim. In general, it is relevant to us as a youth movement since we should espouse the opinions
of the whole movement.
MS: we can get information online and from them, there will be a session on mechina and perhaps
we could make a facebook group on the COTY
5. Anthony Nolan Trust
GW: lots of Jewish values about the value of life, and opens up huge potential to explore this. Also is
a very worthy Jewish cause.
IS: Much more of a financial connection – not really that much of a SAP.
DP: Well suited to COTY – big taboo that it’s a painful procedure. We should educate that it isn’t
really, and that it’s valuable.
MU: We’re all linked to it – doesn’t matter that it is just financial.
LA: Support this – on the register myself. Problem is that kids get excited about signing up, but you
can’t if you’re under 16.
DB: If we get every boger to sign up, it’s pretty SAP-y. That’d be fantastic
MS: Doesn’t matter if they can’t sign up, we can still be educational
IS: the ethical issues it brings up are more important, and it can be a source of education. The COTY
should be more about the whole movement, not just camp.
MW: Opens up another area about organ donation – linked to a lot of other causes.
MU: Also need to consider the parents views of it though.
IS: there’s a danger of indoctrination so we must be careful.
6. Kibbutz Eshbal
DP: hidden message about how education can be flawed, and so could perhaps help us too.
BL: lots of people there are just people who aren’t those who education hasn’t worked for, not
necessarily down to circumstance
Veidah 5774
DP: have stated a preference against Israel education – doing this would undermine Kinus.
AM: an Israeli charity isn’t as relevant - if you really want to do social action, then it’s not as
practical.
MU: should start locally.
7. Jordan River Village
GC: Accept that Israel charities aren’t as popular. A good idea that we can visit them on tour, but
maybe shouldn’t be our charity of the year.
BS: Good – our Israel charities in the past have been about the peace process. This isn’t specifically
for this, but still affects it indirectly. It’s a cause we are keen on supporting.
8. Kishrut
Voting – you can vote for up to 3
1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
Playing For Change: 7
Barnardos: 25
Refugee Council: 20
Anthony Nolan Trust: 14
Kibbutz Eshbal: 1
Jordan River Village: 3
Kishrut: 0
Donkey Sanctuary: 3
Successful: Barnardos, Refugee Council and ANT
DP: Interesting concepts behind ANT. Two functions – raise money and educate. ANT is the perfect
charity because it is challenging, but also a worthy cause.
ZT: All three have interesting things to educate about. Barnardos is maybe too big, and so perhaps
our effort might be better focused somewhere smaller.
MW: COTY should be viewed as an alternative theme – the ANT has a particularly relevant theme.
BL: Last few years there was an issue of seeing the charity in the frame of education, but more about
where the money falls. All fairly big charities, so size isn’t a reason.
JM: Not just about education – harder to get involved in ANT, but Refugee council is easier to get
stuck in. Not just throwing money at something.
MS: Main source of money is from filling in the forms – children don’t really know about the charity
until they pay for it.
Veidah 5774
DP: Wrong to say that we should pick the COTY on the roles they serve unless they plan to change
those roles.
AS: In terms of charity size of it is. Kinus motion in having more charity based days.
BL: Not just a cheque, we should be looking to engage much more with the charity.
IS: regardless of the charity, it should be something we can engage with all year round. We can do
things which chanichim can’t do.
IS: ANT brings up a lot of ethically challenging ideas which we haven’t necessarily been talking about
already. Also is a sensitive topic, so we must be careful not to enrage parents.
BL: Barnardos has a sole claim to be relevant to everyone – powerful for children to raise money for
other children. Also it’s local. Combination of being big, but also option of seeing where money goes.
MS: Benefits - can send people out into community, fill a gap where government aren’t doing
something link to theme
1 vote between the three, eliminate 1 and then vote on last two.
Barnardos: 13
ANT: 2
Refugee Council: 14
Barnardos: 16
Refugee Council: 13
Barnardos is the charity of the year!!!!!!
Asepha 7: Past Motions Review
1993:31
Reaffirm: 3
Discard: 21
Abstentions: 2
Motion discarded
Veidah 5774
1993:33
TF: Mazkirut has changed form
BC: The internet has changed things, we have constant contact, and it doesn’t really matter anymore
IS: The sentiment is good, but I think it needs to be amended, (but it’s a good effort)
DS: The best time to talk about a va’ad is straight after they’ve been talking about
GW: Use some common sense, some va’adot will need to meet up and some will not, it's up to
individual ones to decide.
Reaffirm: 0
Discard: 22
Abstentions: 4
Motion discarded
1994:2
DP: good to revert to it
DS: Good idea, but not specific enough, now we have a social action thing so we’re doing that
instead
AS: Mandating it would be highly impractical
OW: If we don’t mandate it then it probably won’t happen, and we should only reaffirm stuff we’ll
actually do
LU: On some events it’s impractical, but for others there’s no reason not to
GC: Depends on your definition of tzedakah, we do a lot of great things doesn’t mean we have to
keep it
Reaffirm: 10
Discard: 8
Abstentions: 6
Motion reaffirmed
1995:12
DS: This is just irrelevant now. Discard it
GC: LJ won’t fund or support it
HJC: Great idea, I want to sell stuff
Reaffirm: 2
Veidah 5774
Discard: 19
Abstentions: 5
Motion discarded
1998:4
Reaffirm: 21
Discard: 0
Abstentions: 1
Motion reaffirmed
1998:10
SW: I tried to do this, only one person signed up. If really wanted to do it…
Reaffirm: 4
Discard: 11
Abstentions: 5
Motion discarded
1999:7
Reaffirm: 2
Discard: 13
Abstentions: 5
Motion discarded
2000:1
GC: We don’t have a newsletter, Galim update may return.
Reaffirm: 1
Discard: 10
Abstentions: 10
Motion discarded
2000:3
Veidah 5774
GC: this isn’t about merging with RSY; it’s about doing more with them. It’s hard to implement.
JL: it drives me crazy when people say “we love being small…” There are many similar movements
saying the same [citation needed], so we should all merge.
AF: mentions PJY Netzer
Reaffirm: 12
Discard: 9
Abstentions: 6
Motion reaffirmed
2000:6
AS: It’s a great thing there’s no reason not to have it
BS: Movement leaders receive it anyway
GC: It would be great, but not sure its practical, could be a bit dangerous, if everyone thinks they are
trained, but it’s the movement workers who are legally responsible.
BC: It’s happening anyway, deadweight motions
BS: There’s no reason we could supplement hadracha learning, but ultimately it’s the MoWos who
have responsibility.
Reaffirm: 6
Discard: 18
Abstentions: 4
Motion discarded
2001:2
Reaffirm: 10
Discard: 5
Abstentions: 9
Motion reaffirmed
Asepha 8: Motions Box
Chair: Dan Squire (DS), Minutes Graham Carpenter (GC)
Veidah 5774
Motion 11: To align LJY Netzer with the feminist movement and educate chanichim on feminism
and the pursuit of equality
SW: It come naturally that we would all align ourselves politically, with the movement that strives
for the equality of women in society.
DP: I think that the whole principle of liberal Judaism is that women have the same rights anyway.
This is already being done.
(Harley is Captain Kef)
MS: I’d love to agree with the motion but describing us as a feminist movement might put people off
who don’t know the movement (and that it means everyone)
JA: Which feminist roots would you align yourself with? A lot of dialects… hard to go for a single
homogenous movement.
SW: Obviously there are many different movements; we will promote the basic bare bones feminist
ideal that all are treated equally. Full stop.
JP: How would this work with having single sex dorms?
AC: The problem with people seeing us as a feminist group… if people see on the website what
feminism is and why we aren’t associated with it in a way that everyone can understand.
Propose amendment feminist piece on the website – friendly. Motion now reads: To align LJY Netzer
with the feminist movement and educate chanichim on feminism and the pursuit of equality. There
will be a definition/explanation of this on the website
JB: If we do this we should also say we are also part of every other group as well (egalitarian) should
put all of them on the old website as well then.
HJ: POC: I don’t get it. If that’s what we already believe in why does it need to be a part of our
affiliation?
SW: The reason why it exists at the moment is that there are still differences between how they are
treated. E.G small discussions where one sex is talking more than the other… constantly checking
ourselves. Are we giving each other the same opportunities?
KP: If parents are put off by the fact that we are affiliated then do we want them? We have the
Zionist stuff, can be seen as controversy. We should not hold back.
MS: We are already a feminist movement and making it specific or part of the ideology could be
really cool and mean we have to educate on it.
SL: POC – where does constantly checking ourselves stop? Where do the gender stereotypes end?
LS: The whole point of course we want the kids who are anti-feminist… to make them understand
the ideology.
MF: Feminism is something that affects everyone. Not all participants are from liberal synagogues =
different experience. Don’t segregate based on sex or gender. Never explain. Something we already
do, unequivocal about, put it in words that said it how it is, and you have to be clear about the fact
that it’s just equality. Have to have a disclaimer, which is saying what we already believe. Try not to
put people off.
Veidah 5774
IS: It’s about treating everyone the same. (Various table examples)
SW: Being a proud feminist, I do not believe that all genders are treated equally. Hard to
disassociate, definite need for it in society and in LJY so vote for it.
JA: Actually it’s not necessary to affiliate… we are a feminist movement by its members.
Looked up some definitions and they pointed to women’s rights.
BC: The definitions that were read out only cover gender binaries.
DB: POI – started off as an advocate for women’s rights because of the obvious difference. Same
basic principles are the same, for equality. Just because there are such different views… it’s for
equality of all genders and sexes.
GW: If it’s striving for equal rights for women then it means equal rights for men. Joining an equality
movement
ZT: We have equality engrained in us otherwise we would not be on LJY. Maybe you want a peulah,
do you see a problem? I don’t think we need a motion for our ideology. It’s not serving a purpose.
MS: We need two thirds o get this past because it’s ideological. If we don’t make it explicit then we
can’t educate on it as easily.
HJ: I agree with Zara. Why do we need to put another term to what we are? The more and more
things we put into it the harder it is…
AS: What would this change in terms of is it another pillar?
IS: I see no reason why we shouldn’t be explicit about beliefs that we hold.
SW: I think it’s well important to everyone in the room. There are inequalities, they are inescapable.
Socialised differently and it is engrained and normally. Constant struggle in LJY. If we align ourselves,
say we are constantly trying to improve ourselves then I think it’s really important.
Move to vote – constitutional
For: 23
Against: 1
Abstentions: 7
Motion passes
Motion 12: To add a 4th pillar of Youth Empowerment to the movement’s ideology (the current 3
being Liberal Judaism, Reform Zionism and Tikkun Olam)
GC: reads mission statement (inc. ‘stupid’ pre-paragraph)
SW: Part of the motion is that we have a motion for a competition to visualise the new pillars.
JA: We might limit the numbers of pillars that we do have.
GW: I’m not sure how passing the number of pillars stops us. Amendment that the visualisation
includes informal education hadracha and informed decision making.
Veidah 5774
IS: Amendment: Visualisation is silly. But it is a secret fourth pillar.
SW: Amendment is friendly. Visualisation can be done anyway.
TF: Amendment we also add Inclusion as well as youth empowerment.
AS: Similarly with adding pillars, what would happen without kef? Why not add that too!
GW: I don’t think we should include inclusion as it is not ideological as more practical. Not a core
part of ideology. In a lot o ways we are not inclusive. Shouldn’t include it as a core pillar
LS: Deserves its own motion.
TF: In terms of not being ideological, that is rubbish; we are the only stream of Judaism that will
accept people of patrilineal descent. Mara and Harley’s session today would not happen in many
other movements. Some people think we are too inclusive which is rubbish. There are so many
people that wouldn’t fit in other places.
Move to vote on the amendment
For: 9
Against: 11
Abstentions: 7
Amendment fails. Move back to original list. There are lots of general make the right decision
statements.
JA: There are so many things we can have as an ideology, delineating it
Move to vote – constitutional
For: 19
Against: 1
Abstentions: 7
Motion Passes
Motion 13: There should be a mandated minimum 30 minutes of free time excluding meals and
dorm time.
POI – factually wrong, because of 1 hour tea and tuck.
HJC: Talked about on Kinus, as at the end of the day they would rather have it split not what I mean
let’s mandate it.
LS: Shouldn’t be mandated, not the purpose, we are all intelligent enough to do it… it’s something
that we know to do and doesn’t need to be mandated.
GW: Status quo motion. We don’t need to vote because we already do it.
JS: Only a small amount
Veidah 5774
IS: Rashim should be aware of. It’s a tochnit by tochnit thing. Make sure you end up with the free
time when stuff gets cut.
EL: I thought it was more about sitting in dorms.
LS: Needs to be more about rashim and movement workers
GC: This is where he wants mandated free time
HJ: Wait a sec ah screw it.
Move to vote
For: 3
Against: 24
Abstentions: 7
Motion fails
Motion 14: There should be a chug run on Chalutzim to run whole camp sessions on main site (in
addition to chalutzim night)
Proposition – benefits leaders, gives more time to planning other sessions and also allows chanichim
to do more hadracha (YOUTH EMPOWERMENT WOO!)
DP: It would be difficult to coordinate. Would be restrictive on the way that rashim timetable.
MF: Not knowing what they are going to run until the day may be quite similar… give them a theme?
CL: I agree it is a good idea to get hadracha experience, however they are already doing chalutzim
and plaganim breakfast.
SL: It’s a great idea. Many really enjoy the hadracha aspects on chalutzim. Gives them a taste.
Coordination issues is not true. Overlap has a potential for happening anyway.
MS: Chalutzim 2013 absolutely loved planning and leading and often spent their free time planning.
Younger kids would find it great to be led sessions by them.
GW: Is it overkill with all three? Not at all. This is for those chalutzimniks who want to do it. It’s a
beauty as a chug, as an option.
IS: No logistical problems as to when it happens as all it needs is one time of coordination
TF: It should be training planning session in order of chug sessions.
GC: It’s good because it’s not mandating it.
JP: Could negate from the aspect that bet night and plaganim breakfast already have.
BC: Having more leading opportunities is better. Actively running a session, not everyone gets the
same roles in chalutzim night and plaganim breakfast.
RH: It’s a great opportunity, but we should enjoy being youth and not take away from it.
AC: Could make the other whole camp sessions look less good.
Veidah 5774
BC: I first thought of this and brought it up at the summer feedback for Kadimah and it’s still a good
idea. Something that would make Kadimah better, always been special when chalutzim go to main
site, won’t change that too much, I hope we do it.
Move to vote
For: 33
Against: 0
Abstentions: 2
Motion passes
Motion 15: Graham will get a banjo and learn to play it
OW: A banjo would increase the genetic diversity of the group. Also graham should play the banjo.
HJC: It takes a lot of time out of grahams life to organise these events
AT: A banjo would turn graham more southern. He’s more of a soul and techno kind of guy.
Amendment: Graham should shave his moustache into the shape of a banjo.
AS: Should amend from must to should endeavour too. Retracted a Graham said he would do it.
DP: Classic Mitzvah Goreret Mitzvah tunes need to be played on a banjo.
MS: Let’s not discriminate against different instruments. 5 strings.
LS: Video updates amendment. FRIENDLY! The motion now reads: Graham will get a banjo and
learn to play it. He should make video updates recording his progress.
AC: It’s been our mum’s dream to learn the banjo so it could cause a rift in the family.
GC: Brought a berber banjo back from Morocco come check it out. It’s made of sheepskin and camel
toes…
Everyone: ewwwww
GC: Woops, I meant camel toenails…
Move to vote
For: 29
Against: 2
Abstentions: 4
Motion passes
Motion 16: This motion wants the whole Kadimah tsevet to have one lie in till the end of whole
camp sessions in addition to night off and day off until 10.30. (Standard mornings early)
Veidah 5774
POI – for those that don’t know currently, for madrichim on machanot, 1 night off and 1 day off.
(Timings)
POC – does the hour off also count?
EL: It would be in addition, everything already happens
LS: In terms of a two week camp, having one day is silly. If you want extra sleep then go to bed
earlier.
DP: I would like to propose an amendment that it be changed to everyone gets a lion until 10.30.
Retracted – was a joke.
BC: Everyone still gets woken up because of the alarm that sets off for all the other madrichim in the
dorm.
IS: I like it. Question of whether there will be not enough madrichim to lead camp. We never like to
lose leaders because it is inconvenient.
GW: Staying up late is important because things happen later and talking is important because they
can actually have an intelligent conversation. Small tsevets would cope as it is only 4-5 mornings
TF: Bogrim roles may sort this problem naturally. We were thinking of swapping this in the office for
the night off.
JB: At the end of the day... (It’s the beginning of the day) you don’t want to go to bed early anyway. I
was a zombie at the end of camp. One morning off would of helped so much.
BS: Looking at the logistics, you probably would want it in the middle of the camp. Would be so
similar days to people having days off and nights off so have a disjointed tsevet. I don’t have
confidence that we can do ruach effectively at the moment after this year’s Kadimah. Lots of
considerations to be made about this being a mandated thing.
LS: Some people will be taking it as an advantage to stay up later. In the end it probably doesn’t have
a significant enough difference as people will take advantage.
SL: Some people have their hour off during whole camp sessions, so take breakfast and ruach
anyway. Something about a lie in where you can wake up leisurely, in your own time.
AF: Surely Bogrim roles can step in.
HJC: Even though there were ten madrichim we struggled with where were the madrichim the whole
time. A lie in would make it more difficult. It’s not practical.
MS: We have managed to survive without it. It’s not necessary.
CL: It’s a great idea, on not having enough for ruach, should get people standing up. Got to think
about welfare. Some people can’t take the intensity, if it helps then it helps.
MW: If you sleep in it knocks your sleep cycles 90 minutes later, etc...
MF: For teenagers who wake up later generally, a lie in is more valuable than getting more sleep.
LS: Bogrim roles can’t cover. They were already doing the most in whole camp sessions. In terms of
doing a two week camp, ask for it if you need it.
Veidah 5774
BC: Rashim run round making sure everyone is ready for that day. Morning was the most hectic
time. Having a slightly slower start to the day would be beneficial.
MF: We are all here as volunteers so our welfare should be considered.
GC: Morale Kadimah was the best ever. Simon – lie-ins would be taken advantage of, some tsevets
have done it anyway in the past. Strongly agree that you can always ask for it from your MoWos or
the welfare officer.
EL: One of the best parts of camp is getting interact with all the other tzvatim
LS: The key is that I don’t think it needs to be a mandated lie in, if you need it then it will given to
you
Move to vote
For: 13
Against: 14
Abstentions: 6
Motion fails
Parliament time!!!!
Asepha 9: Kinus Motions
Present in the asepha: SL, JS, DP, MF, JP, SL, AM, JA, OW, JM, AC, RH, CL, DS, SW, LS, GW, GC, BC, MS,
KP, EL, IS, AS, BS, TFi, AS, AZ, TF, JL
Motion 17: More fund raising events for the lower years around mitzvah day
G: Helps community, When synagogue do it – small turnout, LJY = big turnout.
A: Currently no mitzvah day event for anyone below Galim
M: Can older years take part?
G: Younger years don’t understand the concept of charity; need to reach a certain age. More work
involved.
T: Fundraising and mitzvah day – different things. Mitzvah day is a social action event.
B: Links to SAPOTY. Subject to who we’re working with e.g. Norwood last year defined age bracket.
D: If the motion is passed, will we specifically change mitzvah day to make it fundraising?
A: Mitzvah day activities not necessarily mitzvah day
G: Don’t trifle with mitzvah day!
G: Is it acceptable that what happens is mitzvah day is extended for everyone?
Veidah 5774
Move to vote
For: 20 (+8 from Kinus)
Against: 1
Abstentions: 5
Motion passes
Motion 18: Strikes should be discussed more with chanichim more before the decision is made to
give them out.
G: Strikes are just talk about with the leaders; with chanichim – both sides of the story can be heard.
M: Strikes are last resort after a situation has arose and been discussed with a chanich. It is not
something that can be negotiated out of. It’s a punishment
G: There is no specific procedure – movement workers endeavour to talk to everyone involved.
Whole MoWo tsevet if possible. Strikes – come with something constructive.
T: Talk to Danny before strikes
B: All sides of the story will be heard. Talk to madrichim and rashim.
G: Not giving strikes to the wrong person. Not a punishment, but a warning.
M: What are the things that merit an automatic strike?
B: Contract signed before event defines rules. Rashim go over rules with chanichim. What might get
a strike is covered in that
D: Strikes are never going to be a surprise to you. You know when you will be in trouble
J: If chanichim are spoken to, they see things going on which the rashim and madrichim sometimes
don’t see
L: Constructive strikes – need to make them constructive. In the past, not constructive just a
punishment.
T: All sides of the story are important but when madrichim say one thing and chanichim say another
– difficult. Trust in madrichim.
M: Difference of opinion between chanichim = if you haven’t spoken to chanichim – they’re getting
in unnecessary punishment.
G: Kinus recognising that there is a hole in the chain. Important for MoWos to formalise this. People
in some cases have to leave events/a strike has to happen because evidence is there- no need to talk
to chanichim then.
A: motion proposes more discussion not that it should be a major factor in the decision making
C: 1st strike is all that is needed
Veidah 5774
J: we think strike system works very well, Kinus feel there is a lack of communication and that
they’re not fully informed.
B: If it were to pass – handled sensitively. Talk about the incident with chanichim – not threatening a
strike.
A: Make it (‘discussed’) less ambiguous. Amendment?
B: AMENDMENT: Change strike to incident. Friendly. The motion now reads: Incidents should be
discussed more with chanichim more before the decision is made to give strikes out
Move to vote
For: 19 (+8 from Kinus)
Against: 4
Abstentions: 4
Motion passes
Motion 19: LJY should run more activity days throughout the year e.g. bowling or Thorpe park.
G: if people can’t afford/commit to camps or weekends, they still have a chance to get involved.
Taster for camps. 4 a year, a day in each region so that people from all over the country can be
involved.
D: activity days detract from education and ideology which is a core part of our movement.
I: small, non threatening events
A: small events don’t need more planning
G: YES went really well – days do go well
E: did a bowling event with plagim and it went really well.
L: what age groups and is it separately in terms of year groups or not?
T: There are just simply not the events in the year to do it. Not logistical.
S: good idea. Lots of other movements have events almost every weekend. Chance for more leaders.
C: adding in activity days isn’t very logistical – we are a very small movement. To run more events
outside of London is a good idea
J: reason why events in London, more comfortable to drop their kids off in London
D: If you’re not from London, then London isn’t convenient to get to
D: A day of kef could potentially neglect other pillars. Thorpe park – risk assessment
D: Activity days?
M: really good way of getting people to get involved in big events – no commitment necessary and
therefore, less scary for chanichim.
Veidah 5774
B: getting the balance right is important. Bogrim and Galim should be running them. If we’re talking
about running more frequent and regional events, then Bogrim and Galim should help make it
happen and lead.
M: Everyone is at an age when other commitments are very important and these days are a chance
if you can’t lead on bigger events.
A: LJY day or a kef day? LJY day would work better and spark more interest in LJY for reasons that we
want.
T: in terms of a great way to get a feel of LJY netzer, the weekends can do that.
J: Bowling thing isn’t very LJY – disagree, LJY things aren’t defined by activities we do but rather the
group
T: just a day of LJY rather than kef is what Kinus wanted
I: Wouldn’t have gone on purely a day event because intimidated by others. A whole weekend to get
to know them.
Move to vote
For: 16
Against: 4
Abstentions: 9
Motion passes
Motion 20: Chanichim to sit in sessions however they want as long as they pay attention.
G: Yom Kippur told to fast to concentrate = same with sessions and sitting up straight. Can’t
concentrate when told to sit in a specific way, need to be comfortable.
D: Not to do with concentration, it’s to do with fairness. Sometimes not enough chairs. Inclusion –
people can get excluded. Safety issues = windowsills etc
G: Practical reasons – not enough chairs. Inclusion reasons – for new people which aren’t integrated
in the group. Gives impression to person running the session that they are not paying attention.
S: Discomfort keeps you alert, up and easier to engage.
G: If you are paying attention, would a madrich stop session to do that? The ‘paying attention’ part
would get lost easily.
A: Get distracting for madrich and/or the person running the session.
I: Distracting for madrichim and incredibly annoying. Some sessions it just simply isn’t appropriate to
lie down/lean on people.
Move to vote
For: 1 (+ 8 from Kinus)
Against: 24
Veidah 5774
Abstention: 3
Motion fails (JL is now present)
Motion 21: Moving up and down years, should be subject to individual circumstance and at the
movement worker’s discretion, rather than LJY policy.
B: Current policy – only allowed to swap year group if you are in the year group corresponding to LJY
year group. Don’t want a policy of open doors between year groups. Difficult. Issues with tour and
leading. Can cause disrupt. Individual case by case can raise the question of why certain people are
allowed, and some aren’t.
G: already at MoWos discretion as they have made the decision.
T: exceptional circumstances would be taken into consideration.
J: for individual people who moved once, it’s probably better if you don’t move in case you want to
move back.
G: Need a clear policy, but exceptional circumstances occur. If you don’t allow people in then you
can lose them from the movement altogether.
Move to vote
For: 13
Against: 7
Abstentions: 10
Motion passes
Asepha 10: Shnatty Motions
Shnatty stuff: Things we’ve been thinking about whilst on shnat.
Netzer is a massive opportunity to take things from other sniffim and interlink with everyone. We
need to take advantage of this massive global community and there’re so many opportunities.
We’ve been thinking about how to get Netzer involved in LJY. Increase the Netzer focus on camp,
Netzer day, emphasising what the Netzer platform is. Netzer dugma. Skyping other sniffim on camp.
We’ve made the shnat shiron, people joined by music etc.
Motion 22: There will be a 24 hour peulah on Kibbutz living on Macheneh Kadimah
AF: I think the day is vital
TF: There are other really cool communities in Israel other than kibbutzim. Suggest amendment: less
specific on the kibbutz bit.
Veidah 5774
Friendly amendment. Motion now reads: There will be a 24 hour peulah on communal living on
Macheneh Kadimah
BWL: A day isn’t an excessively long period of time on camp, considering other things get whole days
off. You’re not losing time, allocating time
LS: Worries me that it’s an entire day of programming that the rashim are losing, so rather than a
whole day, a period minimum of 4 hours.
IS: The problem with this is that if it goes wrong it just continues that way and that’s why a whole
day is hard.
MS: It’s still pretty hard, I don’t know how it would work.
Amendment friendly, 4 hours instead. Motion now reads: there will be a 24 hour peulah on
communal living on Macheneh Kadimah
SW: Amendment, add to this that we add kibbutz living here in the UK
FK: That needs to be a separate motion! Amendment withdrawn
LS: Practical issues, we need to be really careful about how we go about presenting this, and I’m
worried that it would be misunderstood and the chanichim would get the point that we are trying to
make.
JL: I don’t think it’s out of order to make kids do stuff, like real world stuff instead of treating them
spoilt/wrapping in cotton wool.
DP: Difficult to do whole day peulot...
HG: This will give them more motivation for why to do the cleaning up and stuff...make it better for
them and more interesting and show them what responsibility means, and also just because
something’s mandated, doesn’t mean that we lose interest in something, it’s the leaders
responsibility.
KS: Amendment that it should be for the older year groups?
Unfriendly
Withdrawn
SL: One of the biggest values of kibbutz is that everyone there is in support of the idea, and so a
problem on camp is that you would have to enforce this idea, and therefore by enforcing it it’s kind
of paradoxical and defeats the ideology.
FK: The idea wasn’t to enforce the ideals, it was to educate…vast range of activities, It may be scary
to have one thing for the whole thing, but there will be so many variations within.
Move to vote
For: 15
Against: 10
Abstentions: 4
Motion passes
Veidah 5774
Motion 23: To have a residential 'Shnat Experience' weekend run by past Shnatties for 17 and 18
year olds pre-shnat. This would be run after the exam period but at least a couple of months in
advance of shnat so advice will be useful and not too late
Shnatties: it’s really important that everyone gets informed and there’s so much that needs to be
known
MW: It seems ludicrous that there isn’t something like this, for something that is such a long period
of time.
JL: The best way to learn about shnat is to talk to people who went on shnat
GC: It’s a great idea, I don’t know why it hasn’t happened before...I’m in support of the whole
getting more people on shnat things. The only thing is there’s a lot of weekend events packed into
the calendar already but there’s no reason we can’t combine events
BL: There isn’t enough, meeting in a café was the only reason my decision changed, could have been
decided earlier
AF: The more people who go on shnat the cheaper the price.
Move to vote
For: 20
Against: 0
Abstentions: 6
Motion Passes
Motion 24: Internet portal thing
KS: proposes the motion
GC: Opposed. There’re things already happening
TF: We do ask people but people don’t really send us that much. People are not really bothered, and
also we do more than ever in terms of continual development. We have yom chinuch and hadracha
days... Stuff has been happening
GW: This is a great opportunity for LJY to have an effect on LJ by sharing our ideology; the problem is
getting people to upload stuff. The facebook page is very active however we should look into
merging galim and bogrim…also I think we should be proud of our ideology and so it should be in the
public domain.
CL: I think this is a great idea, it’s always a shame that there are loads of great sessions and they
don’t get documented. Old resources should also be scanned in...
DP: The premise of this motion is in communication and things...the galim update that has now
stopped should be restated and extended as a n educational platform...this simplifies everything
without changing the website, more light-hearted and accessible.
Veidah 5774
DS: It’s really important to have stuff available...but people don’t tend to look at stuff outside the
facebook group, I’d be worried that stuff wouldn’t be used.
BS: Everyone seems to like this idea, but the practicalities are the difficult bit...
GC: I think you should withdraw the motion, and people should take it upon themselves to do things
instead of waiting and stuff.
KS: I’m happy to withdraw it and say that everyone should send things in, platform for
galim/bogrim...
Motion Withdrawn
Asepha 11: Motions Box
Present in the asepha: DP, MS, JB, EL, AF, GW, LS, SW, IS, JA, AM, AS, RH, BC, KP, SL, GC, DS, OW, TF,
DB, MW, BS, JM, AC, HA, JP, MF, JL
Lots of argument about who is going to be chair.
Chair: SL, Minutes: TF
KEF: I agree with = look and point
KP: Running chairs
KEF: ALL KEF not feet
Various: blah blah
KEF: Group hug. Blind hug.
Motion 25: To have a sex option inc. male, female, intersex, other and a gender line. ( see
diagram). Sex and gender will be defined. The movement workers to contact any persons who fills
in the form non-binary and talk to them to make sure they will be comfortable on events. This
should be reviewed next Veidah.
MF: POO – lines
JL: POC – What does it happen at the moment?
BS: Current done in accordance to sex. Law – from 8-16 need to be single sex dorms. If put other
AC: Point is inclusivity – if someone ticked other, we should make sure they are as comfortable as
possible on camp.
BC: POC on sex or gender?
Graham: MOVE BACK BETTER CIRCLE.
IS: Tsevet as well?
Veidah 5774
MS: Yes, all forms.
DS: Would like to oppose as am a bit confused.
MS: Amendment: No options just blank space.
OW: It was my go but same.
AC: Separate for gender and sex or one blank spot?
OW: Separate.
AC: The point of
MW: POC – parents fill out forms. Parents aren’t informed.
AC: If parents aren’t informed then they may not ask having both a box and a line may prompt
parents to talk to children and mean they are more comfortable.
MF: Saying it would make the form too complicated, it’s not as simple as male and female etc so the
form should not be simple just because it’s simple. There should be explanation of sex and gender
on the form so that parents can have better knowledge.
GC: Hover over might not be possible but there can definitely be a paragraph of explanation.
JL: We all agree ground to be made. 2 points. 1) A form is not the place to be educating people,
reams and reams of info on form isn’t good. 2) issue of application form vs. dorms. Two different
debates are strict law things. Gender vs. sex etc.
OW: POC – is this what you meant? (shows him something)
LOTS OF PEOPLE TALKING AT ONCE!!! AAHHHHHHHHHHHH
DS: Firstly it’s not about putting too many words in the form, it’s about that not being the place,
forms are too long. Not saying it isn’t an issue. Educating madrachim, confused.
AC: Motion would be going towards asking beforehand what the child prefers if they specify no
binary.
SL: POC – if you have line and other; do you need both?
Formatting issue – not very interesting.
SL: POC – pronouns, what if they want you to be called by madrichim vs. what they want to be called
by other chanichim.
AC/JM: Would be discussed with chanich/a
EL: Do we ask for information for logistical or to get to know them. What is binary?
AC: Binary is male, female as opposed to spectrum. Gender not sex.
MS: giving people lots of interesting information and educating.
GC: Practical – the online system is good. THE COMPUTERS REMEMBERS EVERYTHING!!!! You would
only have to read the info the first time you fill out the form.
Veidah 5774
BS: I think that it doesn’t need to be pages of info. Definition of sex and gender. Shouldn’t be made
into an issue, this isn’t a forum for discussion. We would be changing societal norms. It’s just that
you fill out a form whether binary or not and if it brings up debate great. Dorms legally we know.
Welfare wise we are going to be making sure we gather more information and discussion.
MF: POC – what age do you talk to parents vs. chanichim filling out forms.
BS: Under 16 parents. Medical tsevet forms only safeguarding officer.
AC: The thing about dorms is about sexuality and not about gender is not the way to look at it.
People may be comfortable with different things, huge LGBTQ issue. Possible a non-binary dorm?
AS: This motion is reviewed next Veidah and not in three years. V. important.
AC: friendly. Motion now reads: To have a sex option inc. male, female, intersex, other and a
gender line (see diagram). Sex and gender will be defined. The movement workers to contact any
person who fills in the form non-binary and talk to them to make sure they will be comfortable on
events. This should be reviewed next Veidah
JL: blah blah blah blah
JM: On a lot of websites you can have a question make REPEATING REPEATING REPEATING!!!
MS: People unhappy about reading lots vs. being called the wrong gender.
AC: V. Important issue. Inclusive. Make people more comfortable on camp.
DS: I REFUSE TO OPPOSE!!!!!!
Move to vote
For: 26
Against: 0
Abstentions: 3
Motion passes
Motion 26: To have mandatory hadracha sessions on LGBT issues and that the movement workers,
with help, to draw up a new standardised set of guidelines of how to deal with homophobic
incidents on camp
DS: Everyone agrees with sentiment but practical stuff
Everyone loves it but discussing practicalities.
LS: We should be doing as much as possible to prevent homophobia but something
DS: How many days?
MW: Up to people and when it’s relevant. Should be done on had sem.
MS: not impractical.
DP: DON’T SHOUT. Bring back sex education session on events for chanichim.
Veidah 5774
MW: Agree. Part of mandatory sessions is not only to give leaders advice but also give them
resources.
TF: Does it need to be mandatory?
AS: Comes under welfare.
GW: Everyone who leads on a machanot who do it? Welfare yom hadracha not comp.
TF: Compulsory for mechina machanot.
SL: yesterday comp for chanichim on events.
Various: not motion yesterday not in this motion.
DS: Everyone is an individual; va’ad
MW: Maybe, actually no. I’ll amend it to MoWos and va’ad.
Turns out no va’ad.
SW: Great motion. Standardised thing is an amazing useful tool. Correct terminology, madrachim will
know what to do, it will add confidence. It’s great.
LOTS OF APPLAUSE.
Move to vote
For: 29
Against: 0
Abstain: 1
Motion passes
Asepha 12: More Motions Box
Present in the asepha: DP, MS, JB, EL, AF, GW, LS, SW, IS, JA, AM, AS, RH, BC, KP, SL, GC, DS, OW, TF,
DB, MW, BS, JM, AC, HA, JP, MF, JL
Chair: AC, Minutes: DS
Motion 27: A va’ad be formed to formalise a series of appropriate aims for the successful
completion of the ideology and TOTY for the year end. Va’ad includes members of each different
shikva.
GC: Notes LJY netzer has 300 members with its (3 pillar) ideology. Many peulot in 2013 were just
facts, then discussion. There is no formal guidance for ideology completion except Aliyah
Believes LJY netzer is not structured enough in its commitment to Aliyah as reflected in tour – shnat
carry over
Veidah 5774
Resolves a va’ad be formed to formalise a series of appropriate aims for the successful completion of
the ideology and TOTY for the year end. Va’ad includes members of each different shikva.
Aims will not strive to make significant difference to current situation. Just formalise the aims.
Aims will be cumulative from year group to year group. Document should be finished in advance of
Aviv 2014.
These guidelines will be edited constantly from year to year in order to adapt to changing
circumstances
BC: Set-in-stone aims are good idea, but broad terms such as tikkun olam are good and open-ended,
which helps variety and creativity which set goals might hinder. Also newcomers would miss out on
cumulative effects.
MS: Example aim?
GC: e.g. cumulative knowledge of Israeli geography for reform Zionism.
SW: from Netzer Veidah last year, netzer Australia already do this under the title of Rosh Chinuch.
One person who assesses completion of goals at year end. This could definitely be done for TOTY as
well as other things, it is achievable and a good idea/
IS: Good idea. Guidelines and aims won’t restrict creativity. Much time spent on reiteration of topics
across year groups, cumulative aims would help to avoid this problem.
GW: Worried about example as formal education instead of informal. We want them to be
ideologically active, not just full of facts. We don’t want to assess them. However, this is a good idea
and should go forward.
BC: Should be amended to remain current with situation in Israel for RZ eg.
GC: Amendment friendly, review good. Motion now reads: A va’ad should be formed to formalise a
series of appropriate aims for the successful completion of the ideology and TOTY for the year end.
These aims will be regularly updated to ensure they are still factually correct. Va’ad will include
members of each different shikva
TF: Good idea, odd to have 13 year old who know about Arab Israeli conflict but not basic
information about Israel geog. MoWo issue to ensure consistency throughout the year. Can’t be
deferred to “next event” to avoid running sessions.
JA: Worried that this motion could become curricular, which is not necessary. Strength of LJY
education is in its informality. We shouldn’t try to understand education by giving assessment
targets. “How well are we doing?” is a difficult question to answer and this might not provide the
answers we need. We already know if sessions are good. A curriculum might not change the
problem or repetitive sessions, we should work more on providing top quality peulot.
BC: The motion says “guidelines”, not strict.
MW: Not that bad, sounds scarier than it is.
DS: *sneeze*
MW: We should see it as something to be achieved, not a target which we can’t afford to fail. If we
don’t make it, not the end of the world.
Veidah 5774
MS: Agree with JA. Denies madrichim the opportunity to follow own interests or ideologically
creative sessions. Amendment to review curriculum could allow regular change which would prevent
cumulative improvement. Might not be cohesive. Bad for late-joiners anyway because of lack of
prior expected knowledge.
AC: List closing, hands up.
BC: POI. Aims would be updated so as not to go out of date, not to make regular changes.
GC: This is NOT a curriculum. This is a broad set of one or two aims for each shikva, in regards to the
LJY pillars. Appropriateness for each pillar is debatable. Cumulative idea is confusing, might be
amended out. Updating is only to say that the aims can never be absolute, they will change as the
movement changes and the world changes. These are not end aims, these are to help structure
education to help madrichim, rashim, MoWos to build peulot on camps.
GW: Va’ad should include one boger/bogeret + one gal.
Move to vote. Vote non-constitutional…
For: 17
Against: 3
Abstentions: 4
Motion passes
Va’ad includes: GC, KP, DB, SW, IS, GW, JA, MS, BC,
Asepha 13: Social Action Project (SAP)
Present in the asepha: DP, MS, JB, EL, AF, GW, LS, SW, IS, JA, AM, AS, RH, BC, KP, SL, GC, DS, OW, TF,
DB, MW, BS, JM, AC, HA, JP, MF, JL
Chair: GC, Minutes: DS
Motion 28: SAP
GC: None of the Veidah participants who aren’t present have SAPs to present, so we will go ahead
with the asepha.
Raise your hand if you were born in September. Put your hand up if you were born on an odd day.
Put… up if you have an A in your name. Put… up if you have brothers. Put… up if you have a driving
license. (Only Tom F remains). Tom you’re Captain Kef.
Last year a motion was passed that SAPs should continue for two years to help continuity and gain
more from the partnership. Anyone with suggestions please put yourself forward.
BS: If Norwood was to be voted in again, would it only continue for one more year because it has
already been the SAP?
Veidah 5774
GW: Interpretation of the Veidah 2013 motion would suggest that Norwood would be renewed for a
further 2 years, instead of only 1.
DB: [Reads 2013 motion. Clarifies ONLY one more year.]
BS: I am going to bring forward Norwood. Before mitzvah day I spoke to Norwood. We obviously
believe in it. There are more opportunities to get involved than we have used beyond card sending.
Going to facilities across the country and around London. We could be doing services for, or videoing
services for their beneficiaries. We could film videos about Jewish holidays. There is scope for more
interaction than we have been doing for the last two years. I don’t want us to dismiss Norwood.
SW: This is a departure from previous SAPs. I want to suggest we work on ‘mental health’ in
collaboration with Time to Change. 1 in 3 people face mental health issues, inc depression, bipolar,
etc. It affects everyone in LJY. There are ways we can help people in the movement and out. The
idea would be to empower ourselves to raise awareness, discuss the stigma, train madrichim to deal
with MH issues, provide support, and (with TfC) provide resources for individuals and organisations
to talk about MH issues.
At Netzer Veidah last year, NFTY showed their work with MH as their SAP. They made a video of
chanichim talking about what they learned. We can have social media campaigns, events, training,
etc, ourselves. We have a good connection with TfC because of Naomi Russell who now works for
them.
MS: [With Sarah on same SAP] 1 in 7 people have depression. Help chanichim/madrichim to be
better equipped to deal with MH and welfare issues. They will actively help us run sessions.
JB: Withdraw my suggestion.
JL: I have two proposals. Both slightly subversive. Barnardos offers opportunities for SA, and
although we don’t want to cross SAP with COTY, this might be the year to do it. They have many
great options.
Also we could have ‘Live below the Line’. LBTL is an international poverty action organisation. The
premise is to live for 5 days on £5 of food (adjusted for inflation). Living below the poverty line. Our
shikva is committed to it, and we can get all of LJY involved. When you work with LBTL you can get
registered. We could do it on Kadimah
[Whole group murmurs dissent]
I think there are lots of ways we can get involved.
GC: Are there any more suggestions before we close?
MS: I also put the Refugee Council forward as SAP. RC is a charity that helps refugees in Britain. They
are given money to live, feed families, pay for English lessons, etc. RC provide services and help for
refugees, including shelter, MH support, telephone/internet in foreign languages, etc. This is
appropriate for SAP because they have centres all over, we want to educate about refugees and
prevent anti-immigrant prejudice. We can use this SAP as an opportunity to educate about refugees
and issues surrounding them.
1. Norwood
Veidah 5774
GC: We are going to open the list to discuss the first SAP, Norwood.
MS: Educating on Ravenswood was a narrow focus, and may confuse chanichim about the
difference. Ravenswood in particular were difficult to work with and might not be productive to
work with again.
DB: When we contacted Ravenswood they were unhelpful about what ways we could engage with
them other than financially.
IS: Norwood was good to educate on for two years, especially on learning difficulty issues, but after
2 years it is time for a change so we can educate on something new.
JA: I get the feeling that not many people were really enthusiastic about Ravenswood, and we had
low attendance for some events. There are other things we could do which would get more
engagement.
DS: I think that if we renew it and it goes for three years… it’s a big chunk in people’s time in the
movement. You have to run sessions which are saying the same basics most of the time, of course
there are valid things and opportunities, but let’s give them a broad experience over their time in
LJY.
BS: I wanted it to be part of the discussion rather than being auto dismissed. No problem with other
options.
2. Mental Health issues, in collaboration with Time to Change
JP: MH will affect a massive number of people. The impact will be seen internally as well as
externally.
MF: This will also show long term as well as short term benefits. We get short term discussion
material, and in the long term we will have better leaders and chanichim who are better informed
on the issues.
SL: The main danger of MH is that people don’t talk about it. We have an excellent opportunity to
talk about it now. Depression isn’t treated as a disease, this would be a great way to talk about that
and work on that perception.
IS: We send galim/bogrim out into the world with a developed understanding of issues such as
gender identity, homophobia, MH etc, so this would fit into that nicely.
DB: It is important to bear in mind that because it is so prevalent it could be dangerous to have badly
led sessions which could have negative impacts.
JA: Talking about MH as a broader issue than just the charity we are working with is good. Norwood
was constrictive somewhat, MH issues has many more opportunities.
MS: In reply to DB, yes we have to educate on this effectively. But that’s a good challenge, because
the chanichim will spread the good message. We need to make sure we use the right language, but
we can do that if we try.
TtC ran an event on schizophrenia which we could have worked on, or just done things like retweet
and publicise on social media. We are trying to solve the problems around MH issues. Talking about
the right language around the subject would be fantastic.
Veidah 5774
MF: In reply to DB, it can’t be amended but is it possible to mandate certain limitations/training to
make sure that the sessions being run meet a certain standard. The charity may already have this. I’d
feel uncomfortable otherwise.
GC: POI. Good point. LJY has access to sensitivity training etc, we can consult.
TF: We can defer to more qualified people.
SW: TtC has a great website with info, stats, resources, their main aim is getting orgs like LJY
involved and talking about MH, so they will answer questions and help to keep standard correct.
As an SAP it is very accessible to everyone, everyone has a stake in the issue.
We could as a movement have health and wellbeing days on the topic.
JL: We’ve discussed a lot about how we’d educate it, which is obviously good. We don’t dislike the
idea, but what tangible SA could we go out and do in the community?
MS: This is an issue that can only be solved through education.
JL: To clarify, the only SA we’d do would be education?
MS: No. We’d be working on community awareness projects; we’d be lobbying LJ etc to raise
awareness, accreditation to orgs, etc.
SW: Mitzvah day would be going into the world and talking to people about MH.
JA: There has been a case recently when The Sun printed a headline about an MH slur. The case was
barely apologised for. We can campaign against this kind of thing in the media, for example.
GC: List is closed.
MW: This is unconventional according to JL, but it might be perfect for LJY. We have potential to
effectively change culture on this issue, and our techniques align with their techniques. Similar to
homophobia, we’re going out into the world, creating an “army” of informed chanichim to go out
into the world and spread the message.
SW: TOTY is Jews Get Political! We should get political, this affects everyone in the motion!
3. Barnardos
JL: Retract Barnardos. I want to talk about LBTL.
4. Live below the Line
JL: We’re choosing between 2 types of SAP. LBTL is a tangible problem that needs money but also
needs volunteering. LBTL has a set way to do that. LBTL will help create the “army” Mara spoke
about, but with the standard tangible SA.
MF: LBTL is a great idea, but everyone can do it regardless of LJY. Why not do both?
JB: How does LBTL affect anyone other than your own self satisfaction?
Veidah 5774
JL: You get sponsored, you raise money, there is more than just yourself. They focus in particular on
absolute poverty instead of relative. Money went to Bangladesh last year, presumably the
Philippines this year. Also relative poverty in this country is a focus. We can tie this into Barnardos as
COTY. We can focus in on that and educate on it, because it gives us a chance to do both SA and
education. It’s not just about feeling good, it’s about money and raising awareness.
AT: What else SA do they do?
JL: Debt cancellation in the third world, linked in to many other world orgs, probably linked to Living
Wage, IF campaign, food banks, etc. Collecting for food banks is something we can do. Lobbying to
collect throwaways from supermarkets…
MW: POI. There is a safety law to avoid being sued.
JL: This is the point, there are things we can be doing in set SA options. Homelessness and hunger
especially are huge issues and people in this country are thinking about them at the moment, so
there is a very good educational narrative.
GC: Close the list.
MS: Is it focussing on hunger in the UK or rest of world? What is the charity’s aim?
JL: Far more focus on international poverty.
DP: Worried that LBTL is a 5 day commitment instead of a long term dismantling of preconceptions
which can go on all year.
DB: Same as DP, this is a different kind of SA but it is not necessarily better. Not sure how much
more effective or fulfilling it will be. Not a charity in its own right.
IS: POI it is part of the global poverty project (GPP).
MS: Poverty is bad, logistically how much impact can we have?
IS: This is getting stick because JL brought it without full research, but that doesn’t make it bad.
Perhaps we should go forward as the GPP. There is a section on the website with ideas for activities
we could do on camp, volunteering opportunities, so there are good opps there. Also, a project that
is educational is important, but something that has tangible SA is a really good thing that chanichim
can get to grips with.
JL: Friendly amendment accepted, we will go forward with the GPP.
JP: My main issue is that it hasn’t been researched as much. Although it might be a good idea, we
have 10 minutes of research on a phone behind it rather than proper work. Barnardos covers
poverty, it would be good to use the SA to talk about MH issues for variety.
BS: Approach to SA is different this year. The two projects we’re talking about aren’t that different in
effect. We’re talking about bringing forward issues and then secondary are the campaigns to back up
the issues with. If we choose poverty we can stick with LBTL, or the GPP, or another charity which
does similar work – if you want to talk about poverty, don’t be put off by the lack of research.
GC: End of the list. The amendment was to talk about poverty with regard to the GPP or a similar
charity. We’ll talk about the RC now.
5. Refugee Council
Veidah 5774
GW: This year’s Veidah has been very political(!), and a lot about inclusivity. We shouldn’t forget that
there is still racism, which is a big issue. RC is a chance to tackle that. They have more of a network
which is different to the other two. We can write letters, food drives, education, working with
refugees, etc. It is good to donate time and money to people other than ourselves, which the RC and
GPP do.
MS: We can change perceptions of refugees, in the same way as the other two. Not sure how much
impact on the entire problem we can have, but we will be doing good work that makes good
changes in individual lives. Some chanichim in previous sessions have been almost racist, so it is obvs
a problem we ought to look into.
JA: Maybe we should broaden the theme from issues of refugees to issues of racism more generally.
Hope not Hate, for eg, would be a good campaign to bring in. They are currently calling out UKIP,
etc, and LJY should be out there campaigning against UKIP as well. Amendment suggested.
MS: RC are not an awareness charity like the other two, this might take the focus away from
refugees rather than broadening it.
JA: Would immigration be a more appropriate umbrella term?
GC: Umbrella term not necessary.
JA: Amendment withdrawn.
MS: Immigration would still definitely be part of it, just not in the title.
KP: What SA would we do exactly?
MS: Food banks, blankets, education on refugee issues (often fact based), etc.
TF: Our past motion reaffirmed about bringing cans for food banks could fit into this. With regard to
Israel, refugees is something we can definitely link in.
AF: SA is about doing things as well as just education.
Move to vote to narrow down to 2
1.
2.
3.
4.
Norwood: 4
Mental Health issues, in collaboration with Time to Change: 25
Poverty, in collaboration with Global Poverty Project: 11
Refugee Council: 11
Results: draw between 3rd and 2nd option, solution to vote between top 3 to decide 2 options to take
forward for debate.
1. Mental Health: 22
2. Poverty: 5
3. Refugee Council: 2
Successful: MH with TtC, and poverty with GPP/LBTL
MF: Education is definitely part of SA because it incites SA in others and spreads the message to do
SA, so it’s not a cop out of action.
Veidah 5774
IS: A project where we can both educate and do SA with the entire movement. Loads of options to
do practically. It’s exciting to be a part of such an ambitious project. We can make a real impact.
BS: My worry is that in the past, people might feel LJY is all talk and no action. I agree about social
change starting with us, but maybe this is such an extreme opposite of what we’ve done in the past
that it might be an issue on mitzvah day. Too much education is not ideal. Poverty is a good
compromise between education and action both on and off events.
List closed
JP: BS point about all-talk is important, but internal action is still action even if it is less visible. On
Mitzvah day there are plenty of things to do, we just have to be creative and open our minds about
what SA is. It doesn’t have to be physical, collecting money or food for eg.
MS: What LJY excels at is education. We WILL create social change by educating on this. Talking
about this exactly what the issue requires. We can really address this issue head on while it is our
SAP, we can make a genuine change in many people’s lives. We can save lives amongst chanichim,
madrichim, friends, family, etc.
JL: Definitely more focus on education in MH. LJY excels at education. I interpret SA as holding a
different purpose in the movement. It is about going outside your community and making some sort
of change that we would never try to make on camp. We can go and say “we’re LJY, you may have
never heard of us, but here’s what we’re going to do.” I contest the idea that it is more noble to do
something that affects us. Perhaps going out to others is better. Economic problems in the UK are
very prevalent, both problems are just causes but one tends towards education when that might be
self-satisfied.
List reopened. List closed.
MW: What we can do with MH issues is so powerful. It is an education within the community. This
isn’t just going to help the community, it’s going to spread like a “good infection”. The word
education is being used in a derogatory way against the MH idea, but that’s not what this is. This
isn’t being done properly in schools, but LJY can really do this effectively.
SL: Two issues to address. Education seems to be a sticking point in the argument. MH is something
that people genuinely don’t already know about in enough depth. I think JL is dismissing the power
of education to create social change.
JA: With poverty it’s not just going to be food banks, raising money, etc. We’re powerful as activists
just like MH. One of the biggest causes of poverty is government policy, and we can work against
those, lobby against the government winter fuel cuts, benefit cuts, etc. It fits the TOTY.
BS: Torn between the two. Poverty seems like an old idea because we’ve educated on it a long time,
but why hasn’t it stopped yet then? Maybe we’re the generation that brings poverty out of being a
background issue forever. We can show that we care enough.
MF: The huge issue with MH is about equal opportunities, just like financial equality. If one chanich
in a session finds themselves better equipped to deal with MH issues after the session, THAT is
action.
TF: MH as a SAP would be a bigger hitting title, but maybe we should run sessions on it anyway,
whereas poverty would not necessarily be done otherwise. Why not do both instead of one, if we
can. People will educate on MH if they want to, regardless of the SAP.
Veidah 5774
SW: Uncomfortable that it can seem competitive between issues. Both would be amazing. This is a
social ACTION project, not social education.
MS: In 10 years time we’ll look back at MH issues as something we either could have made a huge
difference or not.
IS: Both are amazing issues, it’s good that poverty links into our COTY because it helps chanichim
who get confused between COTY and SAP. Solving extreme poverty within a generation is inspiring,
and would be great to be a part of. It’s very LJY.
GC: Move to vote. Go with your heart. Let’s do it.
[Tension is very high in the room. Long pause while waiting for someone to return from the toilet only
enhances the tension.]
TtC: 20
Poverty: 8
SAP for 2014 and 2015 will be Mental Health issues, in collaboration with Time to Change!!
Asepha 14: Netzer Veidah Motions
Various people have left/leave at various points. No clue about who is present in the rest of the
asephot.
Motion 29: Netzer Olami should be a vegetarian movement
MS: It’ll never get passed.
GC: Spain eat pork. Massive culture change. Yes we should set an example.
AF: It will never pass. Waste of time.
MW: Not waste of time. Even though it may fail it’s about always presenting the idea as an option.
One day it may become more realistic and we should be there to say I told you so
BC: On my Kayitz there was this girl
EL: Food wasn’t good enough.
AC: Waste of time? We bring it up every year and this builds momentum! THERE WILL BE NO
PROGRESS! If we bring it up again and again IT WILL WORK!
VOTE VOTE
Wait
OW: Let’s do it anyway…
SW: I was there! Oh lala. Myself, Anna, Danielle put in lots of hard work, spent weeks getting all the
facts, print outs. 2008 is out of date. So failed by 1 vote. So huge debate, undemocratic not to bring
Veidah 5774
up if it’s interested! Strongly believe in vegetarianism, the team that go out, should research very
well and do it! DO IT NOW! They will get annoyed!
MW: Then we say I told you so!
OW: basically that!
Move to vote
For: 19
Against: 0
Abstentions: 0
Motion passes
Motion 30: Netzer should produce a policy on the elimination of all forms of discrimination,
especially gender discrimination and homophobia, and should strongly encourage sniffim to
promote equality and counter prejudice in their own countries.
Opposition – MW: Wait no.
JA: Intimidation is dangerous. It’s dangerous to do this kind of stuff.
RH: Great IDEA! Really controversial, crazy stuff happens and dangerous.
GW: Don’t put yourself in danger. However it’s something we believe in so let’s take it there and
encourage it. They should go back to Russia and say we are backed it as a worldwide org.
SW: Has to be carefully worded.
OLI HAS A POC. Not the chickeney type. Can we excommunicate Russia?
GW: We could but it’s not part of the motion.
EL: Specifically Russia?
GW/DB: Noooo
BC: I AM NOT AN EXPERT ON RUSSIAN LAW!
JA: It bans homosexual propaganda.
GW: POI – means encouraging people to be gay. They are part of some human rights thing.
AS: Before we vote we need to know what is going to be brought forward
Suggestions of some sort of straw poll.
Confusion with list. Jonty cannot speak. Tom does not want to.
MW: Should be brought to N-Veidah. Treading carefully and being thoughtful is better. Let’s not
target Russia. For all the sniffim.
DB: No Russia will be mentioned
MW: Should be taking.
Veidah 5774
MW: POC – what would be taken?
MW: I don’t know what’s wrong with me?
TF: I do but I can’t tell you
General sounds of supports
Captain Kef: Let’s play WAA!
WAA
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WAA
Perhaps we should merge with RSY-Netzer?
WAA WAA
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Move to vote on Motion?! Yes please.
For: 16
Against: 1
Abstentions: 1
Motion passes
GW/DB: WE WILL WRITE A MOTION!
Motion 31: The UK based representatives for Netzer Veidah should have to go on LJY-Netzer
Veidah
NB. This isn’t a motion to actually take to Netzer Veidah, but the discussion is related/relevant
AF: Better able to represent
Veidah 5774
BC: Best qualified person
SW: Should have to come to apply. So they can relate to the motions stated.
OW: It would be highly impractical to choose after Veidah.
BS: Same thing, discussion is important. To know that your decisions are supported and stuff.
Move to vote
For: 17
Against: 0
Abstentions: 2
Motion passes
Motion 32: To re-submit the ‘Peace and Territorial Compromise’ suggestion for a 15th pillar, after
rewriting it in accordance with the feedback from last Netzer Veidah
GW: Says actual motion. Talky talk.
DB: this is what we believe. LUSMS ISRAEL LUSMS PALESTINE EQUALLY AND TING
GW: they have provided us with feedback, lets respond to them.
BC: We can compromise about the ermm I don’t know what it is. I know what it is. Israel and
Palestine have to make sacrifices
GW: Compromise
JA: Don’t say state solution
DB: Don’t change about the state of Palestine bit. That phrase is fundamental
GW: What should we do? Three subjects of change.
SW: Each of the sniffim are going back and proposing their changes
DB: I propose we establish a group that amends the statement before Wednesday.
Motion passes, but for some reason no vote was written down... suspicious. Group consists of TF, BC,
GW, DB and possibly FCL
Asepha 15: Motion Box
Motion 33: Inclusivity should be added as a 5th pillar
TF: We get accused of being too inclusive. I’m like NOOOOO you can never be too inclusive. Let’s
include those who aren’t inclusive. We’re set up to be inclusive. WE ARE INCLUSIVE. (Slams Table.
Drinks his apple juice.)
Veidah 5774
OW: 4 are enough pillars.
DB: move me down the list.
GW: Sammy G said we it’s something we do, not something we believe in. Not inclusive of certain
people.
SL: WE ARE ADDING TOO MANY PILLARS. Devalued
BS: Interesting as they are all included in Liberal Judaism. It talks about Reform Zionism etc Feel very
strongly that welfare and inclusivity is something that is passionate about and we should shout
about it.
SW: Whilst I feel we are always striving for inclusivity. I don’ think it we are perfect at it.
AS: Do we shout about pillars
GC: maybe it would have been good. We should maybe wait after this year and see how it goes.
MW: It’s integral part of LJY
BC: Committee for guidelines, liberal Judaism means our approach to our religion.
TF: A big statement. The right statement. A good day for Britain. Vote Tom Francis 2014.
JA: We’re not inclusive, we are a liberal Jewish youth movement. We don’t exist.
Move to vote
For: 4
Against: 13
Abstentions: 2
Motion fails
Motion 34: A trial Parent Veidah/feedback day at the Monty C with the MoWos. Motions go to
Veidah or just as feedback
JL: some spiel about his motion… Loads of parents have been on LJY and care about it. They prioritise
holidays over Kadimah and want to pick when it can be. Just because they aren’t members doesn’t
mean they shouldn’t have a say in technical administrative (‘boring’) issues
GC: Parents talk to us and The Big D all the time. They have multiple ways of feeding back to us
which they do utilise. Potentially a good idea but does exist currently
JP: Parents are motivated to talk to the MoWos themselves. If we have an evening like this it could
turn into a trivial mess of stupid points.
JM: could just attract parents who like complaining = unhelpful and makes everybody sad 
DP: Only my parents would turn up #losers
Veidah 5774
BC: informed decision making is important. Parents don’t have information to be informed so suck.
For parents outside of London it’s bare effort and we don’t want LJY to become more LondonCentric
GC: there was no bad feedback from Kadimah this year!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (Unlike two years ago lol)
GW: parents should have a forum to raise positive and negative points about Veidah. Amendment –
survey once a year directed at parents as an alternative
Amendment friendly. The motion now reads: there should be a dedicated evening in which parents
or guardians have a feedback/dialogue session with the MoWos at the MC every year and/or – at
the MoWos discretion – an annual online survey directed at parents/guardians
JL: no bad feedback? No constructive feedback? This is BAD – Kadimah wasn’t perfect [cos DB wasn’t
there]. This means the feedback system def needs reforming
BS: brings up wider issue of communication with parents. We need to not be inward looking and
interact with them to make it less transparent and make sure that they know we understand them
and that they understand us. I think a survey – alongside an update – would be much better. We
want to hear their feedback, but they also need to know that we’re not going to change everything
for them.
GC: we’re trying to run sessions at synagogues specifically for parents to try and recruit/steal away
their kids (/show them how beneficial/amazing LJY is)
Move to vote
For: 13
Against: 0
Abstentions: 4
Motion passes
LORD OLIVER OF AZDOOR NOW PRESIDING. ALL HAIL.
Motion 35: To move the time Veidah occurs to the end of the summer holiday.
AC: The specific timing is open to negotiation.
JL: Take out the summer thing, summer is busy. I think that summer is out of the question. Camp
takes up a lot of summer. January is a pretty good time. People at university are only at home during
January and summer. There are no January exams. Mocks are just mocks.
JP: To summarise, just no.
KP: Shnatties not coming is a big problem.
GC: We’ve had loads of people. Everyone that comes to Veidah makes a decision about their
priorities. A lot of people only come for some time because they prioritise work. Also, it’s just before
Netzer Veidah.
Veidah 5774
TF: End of summer makes sense as that is the start of the LJY year, however it is impractical.
December is also possible, but some people celebrate Christmas and Kwanza so it is an important
time.
AC: Finals happen in January, apparently.
SW: It could be practical for the movement workers as it is at the start of their term.
SL: Yeah.
GC: It’s nice to have it in the winter so that the focus is not completely on the summer. It is good to
have it at the start of the calendar year. September would be good, but September is already very
busy.
BS: Summer is only good theoretically and the dates of Kadimah and the high holy days change every
year. Also, December is not viable so as not to discourage people from going to Limmud. We do our
best, beyond that, people have to work it out.
List is closed
AC: Amend motion to this motion resolves to move the time Veidah occurs.
Amendment is friendly. Motion now reads: to move the time Veidah occurs
BS: This is more like feedback, not a motion.
GC: Movement workers have handover in August and September.
Move to vote
For: 3
Against: 16
Abstentions: 2
Motion fails
Motion 36: To add a Point of Response to the Veidah system whereby the direct critique of a point
may be responded to by the original point maker at the Chair’s discretion.
AC: The main point of this motion is that it is at the Chair’s discretion.
BS: Frustration is mostly caused by misunderstanding which is completely different.
TF: People with more information is POI, people with questions is POC.
GC: On this Veidah, we passed 30 motions. This proves that the current system works.
BC: There is a lack in the POO/POC/POI system by which legitimate responses do not fall under any
of POO, POC or POI.
JL: POI: There is a difference between clarifying you opinion and clarifying facts.
BC: It would allow you to get rid or representation.
Veidah 5774
GC: This would make a mockery of the list system and people with interrupt each other. This would
create more work for the Chair.
Everyone begins to argue about whether a POI BC makes is actually a POI. Ironically, this is BC’s exact
point.
DB: Why does the POR have more of a right to speak than the list?
TF: What Daisy just said, there’s a difference.
BC: The end of Daisy’s point proves my point. Daisy finished with a question that I could not directly
respond to.
CHAOS ENSUES. Move to vote
For: 1
Against: 18
Abstentions: 4
Motion fails
Motion 37: Unfinished Veidah motions should be brought to Mazkirut.
DB: This motion is ridiculous and undermines Galim and Veidah. Everyone has an equal vote and this
is the only opportunity for Galimniks.
JL: We should not remove power from Veidah simply because there is not enough time.
GC: It is a mitzvah to stay up all night Asepha-ing and ideological motions are generally saved for
Veidah.
GW: Mazkirut does not have the authority to pass most of the motions we discuss.
TF: Come to Mazkirut!
BC: I originally wanted a second Veidah, but changed it to reduce the number of events that need
planning. Late at night, people are tired and the quality of debate falls.
MW: List is closed.
JL: It is our duty to stay up and debate.
Move to vote
For: 0
Against: 16
Abstentions: 6
Motion fails
Motion 38: To move Plagim’s bedtime to 21:15 to more reflect their age.
Veidah 5774
TF: Can Ananim go to bed later?
BC: Plagim to Nechalim is a much bigger jump that Ananim to Plagim.
JL: This is something that should be at the discretion of Roshim and should not be mandated.
JP: There is a greater difference in maturity from Plagim to Nechalim that Ananim to Plagim due to
the fact that Ananim and Plagim are both primary school but Nechalim is secondary school.
EL: My dorm was crying because they saw people who they were with the previous year setting of
fire lanterns.
BC: Plaganim bonfire was cancelled. This could have been the other way round.
EL: Amend motion to: that Plagim’s bedtime is moved to 21:15 to more reflect their age and
increase sensitivity regarding Shikvot boundaries and their respective bedtimes.
Amendment is friendly –motion now reads what is written above...
BC: The primary, secondary school thing is completely arbitrary. They are far more intelligent than
you give them credit for.
DB: Mandated bedtime is absurd and undermines Roshim. Nechalim have the right to “not hang out
with the younger kids” just as much as the Plagim have the right to “hang out with the older kids”.
List is closed
GC: As Plagim used to encompass Ananim and Plagim, they have not properly broken apart and still
do a lot together. We should not underestimate the Roshim. Amend motion to: that Roshim on
Kadimah will be recommended to closely regard the boundaries of Plagim with Ananim and
Nechalim, including evening activities.
Amendment is friendly. Ibid.
BS: Plagim should look forward to being old and enjoy the sessions they are given rather than
complain that things are unfair.
GW: Bedtime is exciting and Plagim love hot drinks, Talmud study and science experiments. We
shouldn’t give things to Plagim just because they want them.
AC: Yom Kinus are annoyed about association with Ananim rather than the level of maturity with
which they are regarded.
JB: Bring your family! If Nechalim were having a paintball fight and Plagim wanted to join, we should
let them and they can have a late night. When the Erev Tarbut is rubbish, they can skip it and have
an early night.
EL: I wouldn’t have minded giving up my kef session to let Plagim go paintballing.
BC: You can’t cancel poorly planned sessions to go to good sessions. The process of aging is too slow.
DB: Umm… Yeah, I just think that the points are interesting but this motion is absurd and Plagim
should deal with it.
Move to vote
For: 9
Veidah 5774
Against: 7
Abstentions: 2
Motion passes
Motion 39: Each leader should be mandated to lead a session for a different Shikva.
GW: Last year, two sessions for each Shikva were run by someone from another.
JL: This would make everyone feel more like a community, make leaders use different skills and
ensures we have the best possible sessions. All sessions can be adapted, some better than others.
Those should be the ones that are shared.
DP: I think that it would be disruptive, breaks routine, would not improve the quality of sessions and
leaders will be less invested in their own Shikva.
AF: We should find a way of making them better rather than running them for other Shikvot.
GW: It is not disruptive as we could do straight swaps. I do not, however, see how it will improve the
quality of sessions and do not think that all sessions can be adapted.
BC: Chanichim will concentrate more and be more respectful of swapped leaders, much like outside
speakers.
AC: Number of madrichim varies between Shikvot so this will not work very well logistically.
BS: It would not work well logistically if it is mandated for all madrichim. It is difficult to lead sessions
for chanichim that they do not know so this would improve relations or something.
List is closed
GC: If you want to improve your informal leading, come to Yom Hadracha! You won’t have to directly
plan as many sessions, but the logistics must be resolved at the Rashim’s discretion.
JL: Often a session is only ready to run the night before which is too late, so significant time for this
must be set aside at Mechina. Also, Rashim’s discretion is too open.
GC: POI: This already happens.
JL: Amend motion to: that the Roshim should allocate swap-sessions so that as many leaders as
possible can lead for other Shikvot on Machanot Aviv and Kadimah.
Amendment is friendly. Motion now reads above...
JL: POI – just to clarify, this is just for Madrichim, not Roshim.
TF: If a Rosh has planned an educational journey for an event, this session might not fit in.
JL: Not always necessarily swapping sessions. Sometimes running sessions that you’re inspired to do.
Vote Jonty for President.
Move to vote
For: 18
Veidah 5774
Against: 0
Abstentions: 3
Motion passes
Motion 40: LJY-Netzer should approach Yachad for formal affiliation.
GC: Ben Loserwitz has done a lot of work with them and tried this motion last year and it did not
work. Also, they hate the Zionist Federation.
TF: I enjoy retweeting Yachad. What if they don’t want to affiliate with us?
JL: My family loves Yachad. Yachad is the way forward.
Daisy says something about feminism.
AC: POC: Would this end up on our mission statement and propaganda?
GW: There is no question that we are affiliated them. We should show people that they are not
hippie radicals and should encourage RSY and company to join in.
GC: If we do this, we’ll encourage other movements to do the same.
JB: Graham, you’re on a roll… And I’m on a bun!
JB whips out a bun.
(best line in the whole of veidah)
JP: But you’re not on the list.
List is closed
BC: Spreading Yachad to other movements is a good thing, but we shouldn’t need to join with them
to make a point. We should concentrate on educating our own members.
GC: We must be careful about how we present it to other movements. Also, Jonas Dein was elected
head boy of JFS.
Applause
TF: Yachad are coming to our Yom Hadracha.
Move to vote
For: 18
Against: 0
Abstentions: 2
Motion passes
Motion 41: This motion resolves that a Va’ad should be formed to explore the potential to found a
Netzer commune or compound in the UK with RSY.
Veidah 5774
SW: This is a house or a flat or a farm where people live full time.
JB: Could people do part time?
SW: The intention is that it has full time residents.
JL: If ex-Bogrim are allowed to live there, it will no longer be run by LJY.
SW: Just to clarify, this motion is only to form a Va’ad. As you grow older, it would grow and
eventually become an LJY kibbutz. There would be elements of a kuppah. Groceries might be bought
together and money could be pooled.
GC: Let’s talk money. LJY doesn’t have the money to do this. Neither do LJ or anyone else. If it is
funded by the people who live there, it would just be people living together with values and,
especially if it allows ex-Bogrim, would not be affiliated with LJY.
JL: It’s more a sort of “Let’s all pay for Sarah’s house” Va’ad.
TF: What Graham says.
BC: There are serious problems, namely money. This would only feasibly work as a flat, which would
not be particularly self-sufficient.
AF: Let’s all move to Israel!
BC: Let’s all join the army!
EL: Lots of people would want to live there.
AF: Let’s buy Birmingham!
MW: I don’t think this is such a controversial idea. What Sarah suggested is that we form a Va’ad.
This would not exhaust any of our resources. Something silly about product design. We might end up
with something really interesting.
AF: I think there’s a house in West Hampstead with ex-Movement Workers living together,
essentially this but on a smaller scale.
TF: POI – friends have been known to live together.
BS: What Sarah’s suggesting is that it could be bigger and better. It wouldn’t be friends, it would be
like-minded ideological people. Is LJY for ages 8-25 or is it for life? Surely we’d be helping people live
out the LJY-Netzer ideals.
Move to vote
For: 20
Against: 0
Abstentions: 1
Motion passes
Veidah 5774
LORD OLIVER OF AZDOOR NO LONGER PRESIDING. ALL CONTINUE TO HAIL.
Asepha 16: Joke Motions
JL: Tom Francis has no purpose
Motion 42: That ex-bogrim should be referred to as dinosaurim. (Hebrew for dinosaurs)
JP: They are not dinosaurs they are the banished (amendment).
Open a side list
RH: Dinosaurim are cartoon animals. Cute and cuddly.
BC: Not Hebrew
Amit is forever young
JP: Dinosaurs are not cute.
MW: What is before dinosaurs?
Amendment fails because Daisy doesn’t like it
BC: Dinosaurs are awesome.
As is the minute taker (apparently)
OW: Does not fit with water features
TF: Shouts incoherently
Amendment – Call them the Negev.
BC: Dinosaur beats the Negev
Negev beats dinosaurs. Weird mental image.
EL: What is one of them.
AM: Negevim is the plural
DB: Negevim sounds like nechalim (Note in no possible way apart from an N)
BS: Don’t be rude to them
GC: Lets’ clear up
AF: Serious point – Some people are not happy with the Negev (Presumably they want to make it
bloom)
AM: Midbarim is the Hebrew for desert.
TF: Do they prefer that to Negev?
Yes. Motion now reads: ex-bogrim will be referred to as Midbarim (desert in Hebrew)
EL: Let’s wait for 20 minutes
Veidah 5774
THE WORLD: Let’s not
Move to vote
For: 19
Against: 2
Abstentions: 0
Motion passes
Motion 43: The Men of LJY calendar.
(A parody of calendars. Not at all sexy (but with Danny Rich). The Calendar will have both men and
seasons).
DP: Danny Rich is in August because it is hot.
DP: Create a Va’ad to do this.
DB: Non gender specific
DP: Just because we are only doing men does not mean that it is gender specific
DP: People of LJY
JP: Jews get political. To balance out female objectification. Let’s strip Danny Rich. Mmmm
DP: Let’s raise money.
JL: Jewish year?
GC: Let’s start it when we start it in August.
JL: Maybe we should not start with getting a naked Danny Rich. Rabbi’s naked calendar
Move to vote. Motion now reads, to clarify: to form a va’ad to create the ‘People of LJY-Netzer
Calendar’
For: 19
Against: 0
Abstentions: 2
Motion passes
JL: Dan has Girls
Motion 44: LJY will elect a Pope also, the Montagu centre can be renamed the apostolic centre.
AF: Let Asher be Pope.
BC: Nechalim Popes.
Veidah 5774
OW: Absolutely, they are completely responsible.
JP: I am terrified of Oli [who isn’t?!]
OW: Flamethrowers, Guns and Weapons of Mass Destruction
BC: Takes it seriously. Probably sensible but it is 4 o’clock in the morning.
Motion withdrawn – will be brought back next year apparently
Motion 45: because apparently GC has a serious motion?
BC: Va’ad
...