Charnwood Housing Residents’ Forum (CHRF)
Minutes of meeting held on
Wednesday 15th July 2015 | 10am – 1pm | Committee room 1
Attendees:
Trish Edwardes – (Chair) HMAB/SCRA
Lynne Drewery (Vice Chair) – Community Rep
Peter Bates (Secretary of SCRA)
Jacqueline Thomas (Chair of SCRA)
Alix Glazier (Tenant)
Mike Brown (SCF)
Joan Ure (Tenant)
Officers:
Ian Philp- Landlord Services Manager
Martin Harper- Principal Officer – Investment and Programme Delivery
Vicky Coomber – Customer Engagement Officer
Julie Byrne – Customer Engagement Officer
Emily Clarke – Customer Liaison Officer
Wates
Tom Langley- Regional Operations Director (TL)
Andy Brown- Construction Manager (AB)
Item
1)
Action
Welcome and Apologies
Trish welcomed everyone to the meeting.
Apologies were received from
Cath Biddles and June Bush.
2)
Matters Arising- No matters arising
3)
Introduction
Trish Edwardes explained that Wates had been invited to the meeting
because tenants generally were concerned about the performance of Wates
in carrying out decent homes work, and a set of pre- advised questions had
been prepared for Wates to respond to.
Lynne Drewery explained that tenants were part of the procuring of the Wates
contract for CBC, and the properties they were shown when visiting other
Wates sites before procuring the contract were a higher standard than the
completed Charnwood properties. This is why Wates were asked to attend
this meeting.
Questions to Wates
1.
At the present time why it is taking so long to complete a kitchen and bathroom,
(average 17 days instead of ten days, sometimes longer). Is this because of a lack
of qualified personnel? So far whilst the contract has been running Wates have
not achieved their promised times. What is the reason after 15 months?
Tom Langley (TL) told the meeting that Wates in the last 18 months have as
part of their Communites work:
 Raised over £3k for charity
 Worked with 5 schools and 2 colleges
 Employed 8 local apprentices
 8 more local apprentices to be employed
 Funded and organised a Dragon’s Den event
Page 1 of 8


Painted Barkby Cricket Pavilion
50% of the trades people are employed locally.
Andy Brown (AB) explained:
That the time to complete work as quoted in the tender were based on a
scope of work, and this scope has now increased which is why they have
been recording longer times.
Also the handover process to CBC was taking too long.
From April-June 2015 Bathroom averages were 7 days and Kitchens were
10.56 days
AB admitted that there was an error in their tender when committing to
complete bathrooms within 5 days; it should have read 7 days.
Wates are opening 15 bathrooms a week and there have been peaks and
troughs in the workload.
During Jan-March 2015 there was more spend in 3 months and more
properties had work done in the previous 4 months than in the last 9 months.
This had meant relying on additional staff and not Wates normal teams and
Wates acknowledge this has resulted in poor customer satisfaction. From
April 2015 teams have been re-structured. Indicators are showing that in the
last 3 months there has been an improvement with good customer feedback.
AB explained the bathrooms will always skew the figures because of the 5day turnaround quoted in the tender in error. Completing bathrooms within 5
days is not achievable.
2
Why is the quality of plastering mostly poor? It is a big issue with tenants and
isn’t at an acceptable level. More often than not, it is very noticeable and brings
discontentment.
More recently there has been additional plastering works and this means
extra work involved. Initially it allowed 2 M² which takes 2 hours realistically,
but CBC requested 6M².0 m kitchen and 4M² in a bathroom and therefore
more work is involved.
Tenants commented that quality isn’t always good.
TL said that plastering is done based on the existing wall. If you are patching
walls, it will only be as good as the original plastering.
Tenants commented on the poor painting.
AB said that because of poor plastered walls being patched, painting one coat
of emulsion will not hide this. The solution would be to skim the whole walls,
and this was not in the tender; it was only spot plastering and touch up.
TL said Wates are actually doing two thirds more plastering work.
Tenants said they would rather Wates were in properties longer and doing a
better job as the work has to last 20 years.
One tenant asked what about poor work in previous properties given that
more plastering was agreed in properties
AB said that as CBC have already signed it off they were happy with it and no
further plastering work would then be done
One tenant asked about other Wates contracts and the amount of plastering
done.
AB explained in Nottingham there were similar problems at the beginning of
the contract- when they realised that patch plastering wasn’t effective enough
they amended the contract to allow for more time for M6 to be plastered.
Tenant asked if CBC are allowing Wates to do this?
Page 2 of 8
TL explained if Wates increase theM² of plastering done in kitchens and
bathrooms to enable walls to be skimmed and made to ‘look new’ then 200
less properties a year will be improved.
AB acknowledged that CBC have identified and looked to resolve this issue
with Wates, and Wates are doing more plastering as a result.
3
When appointments are made for workmen to work at a property and don’t
turn up, tenants/leaseholders are left un-notified and nobody bothers to advise
them. People who are working and others who are waiting in all day are fed up
trying to fit everything in with very little co-ordination of trades people calling
in on spec. Could we have more co-ordination please?
TL explained that when there is no access to a property, this has a knock on
effect and causes a ripple effect because workmen then have to go back to
complete this work at another time.
Wates are now employing a workforce made up of their own direct labour and
using fewer sub-contractors. More sub contractors are used when there are
peaks and troughs
AB explained to the meeting that every day, every scheme starts with a 10
minute team meeting called start right to resolve any issues from the previous
day, and at the end of the day the admin team telephones tenants to ensure
that the works are ok and/or to let tenants know that a workman will be turning
up tomorrow.
explained that Wates must let people know when appointments are changed
as people especially those who work make an effort to be in for those
appointments.
Wates acknowledged this but added that where work has a 10 day
programme, tenants should know access is required throughout this time.
TLOs for the scheme go out on site on day 1 for the whole day and carry out
regular audits.
4
Staveley Court residents said there had been a lot of issues. Wates explained
this was during the peak of work and the works programme is now flatter.
Wates again explained that the call volume and spend from January-March
2015 was vastly increased.
Wates explained that the number of refusals in CBC properties Is very high;
some of this is due to where tenants have refused work in the past. They then
appear again on Wates work list even though they have refused work
previously. Other reasons given for the high refusal rate are:
1. Elderly tenants don’t always want work in their homes
2. High rate of tenants with mental health issues
3. Work has already taken place and inaccurate information handed to
Wates
4. 225 of properties in year 2 had already had the work done
5. Void properties are on the list
6. Tenant said elderly tenants do not want the work doing in the winter
There has always been a problem contacting Customer Service, whatever
method you opt for ie: phone message or person on site there is never any
response. If customers need to speak to anybody to confirm details or make
arrangements for appointments it can drag on for days. There is no coordination between Customer service and workers, as they do not know what
each other are doing.
AB acknowledged there has been a problem with the phone line. Initially
Wates upgraded the line to 5 different number options. They are now in the
Page 3 of 8
process of employing 2 business apprentices who will man the phone lines.
Wates are also promoting the other ways they can be contacted such as
email.
Wates also said issues raised in question 3 such as refusals increases
resulted in telephone traffic blocking the phone line.
Tenant asked how many telephone operatives at Wates?
AB confirmed 1 receptionist dealt with the calls.
5
Why are there so many sub contractors then subbing out to other people so
much? Is there a lack of qualified staff,and do you actually know how many such
people are working under the Wates name?
AB confirmed that during the peak Jan-March, Wates needed to use more
sub-contractors to complete the work. Managing sub-contractors during flatter
periods is much easier.
All Wates site workers are qualified.
Staff are trained to the TPAS standard and this includes sub contractors.
All staff receive Wates customer care training to ensure all working to same
standard.
6
It takes forever to get snags or queries sorted out. Would it be possible to have a
finishing team to deal with just these problems please?
Wates do not employ a defect team. Snags are closed down when the work
is finished. 2 Wates staff are now dealing with the backlog.
7
Would it not be practical and sensible to work in one area to get bathrooms and
kitchens that are waiting to be done, less travelling and more production? Plus
happy tenants and leaseholders.
TL said that the process is for work to be done based on the addresses
supplied by CBC by postcode, but the numbers of refusals is influencing
being able to work and do all the properties in each and every area. “The
number of refusals is having a massive knock on effect”.
We want to work with CBC and zone areas as the take up rate is much better
when we work in one street, however CBC issue a list of properties requiring
works throughout the year. When tenants refuse work, other properties
(potentially from a different area and postcode) are added to the list to replace
the refused ones.
AB explained that with Kitchen and Bathrooms, Wates do get a list of
properties to enable them to plan works in an area however other work is
more ad-hoc due to budget and this makes postcode order running more
difficult.
8
Attitude of work men is poor i.e.:” what you moaning for, you are getting a free
Kitchen/bathroom” and “it’s only decent homes” Charnwood Borough Council
take their job in looking after our homes seriously and don’t expect others
working on their behalf not to have the same attitude!
AB said that if a tenant complains to us and Wates are made aware of any
issues, theywill deal with them if the complaint is found to be true. Wates will
take disciplinary action potentially resulting in dismissal.
Tenants need to tell Wates if any of their workforce say inappropriate things.
Tenant explained poor attitude towards tenants is not acceptable and gave an
example.
Page 4 of 8
TL said Wates are catching feedback about operatives and their own forms
are showing great feedback.
AB explained that Wates are setting up a reward system for operatives byrewarding them for the quality of their work and positive customer feedback.
9
Workman urinating in a pop bottle, and throwing it on to the garden. Letting
Wates and Charnwood Borough Council down!
Tenants said this has happened more than once.
Wates said if it’s about a particular address as posted on Facebook (address
withheld) then the tenants have a claim against Wates and at no point despite
Kelly Birkenshaw visiting them have they mentioned the above complaint.
AB again stressed that unless these incidents are brought to Wates attention,
there’s not a lot they can do.
Emily Clarke added that this incident had not been brought to CBCs attention
either by the tenant.
10
On a visit to lady of 82 to be assessed for mobility requirements, she was told it
would be a such a delay?
Emily Clarke has spoken to this tenant and work is planned in the next 4-6
weeks after the Occupational Therapy (OT) report. CBC will instruct Wates
once they have the OT report.
Wates said their staff are not in a position to give timescales when work
depends on an OT report.
11
Why when so many jobs are not signed off are you not keener to finish them so
they can be signed off, and then you get paid for them? Is this not a concern to
your accounts dept.?
AB said that in year 1, they were paid on completion.
In year 2, they are paid on task order- it was not dependant on properties
being signed off.
Wates acknowledged that by finishing all the work = happy tenants and
payment is made.
12
Why when there have been so many issues over the last 15 months has there not
been more effort to resolve these?
This question was not asked.
See notes from Andy Brown (Wates) attached. No notes attached- This
question was answered by reply’s to several questions, it was felt this was
duplicating replies.
Page 5 of 8
13
Why are Wates so behind with fitting the doors, 176 external doors, 464 fire
doors and 678 smoke alarms?
AB said that Wates are not behind. As they produce the programme how can
they be behind?
Trish Edwardes said work quality was often poor.
AB explained that the door supplier has changed to Brit door and the
response is positive.
Last year 651 doors were fitted. This year April-July they fitted 233 doors.
Fire doors were prioritised at the end of last year because of fire service
inspections and therefore more fire doors were fitted than front doors.
Tenant explained the tone of the letters used to inform tenants work on doors
would be starting was aggressive and unacceptable.
TL said they will take it away and look at it.
AB said its already been changed
Tenant complained about the amount of conduit used when installing smoke
alarms.
AB said this is the performance criteria given by CBC as conduit is cheaper
and easier.
Martin Harper explained that this is the reason CBC are now using radio
linked fire alarms and heat detectors is that where possible it will remove the
need to install conduit as normally the smoke and heat detectors can be
installed by picking up a live connection from the existing lighting circuit
Actions for Wates
23 Staveley Court- why was new fluorescent light removed and replaced with
a rose light when doing the smoke detector?
53 Staveley Court- Why was conduit used with a new smoke detection?
Martin Harper said he has asked where possible for all cable to be taken
through the overhead space.
Tenant explained new fire doors very heavy especially for older tenants to
open.
Emily Clarke explained Britdoor can adjust the settings to help open them.
Martin Harper said “this is a learning curve for workmen to make sure tenants
can open and close the new fire doors before leaving”
AB said that Lewis? has introduced a checklist for residents before leaving a
property- Wates to check fire door opening is on there.
14
8 Staveley court door handle problem resolved by Emily Clarke.
Why do you think some tenants are refusing to have Wates to do decent homes
work in their homes? You only need to see Facebook comments to see how
people feel (copy enclosed)
No facebook transcript was enclosed
TL said Wates were very upset by the comments on Facebook (FB) and in
places it breached data protection by naming staff. The comments were liable
and are being followed up and investigated by Wates lawyers and if
necessary legal action will be taken.
AB to mitigate these negative comments by promoting the good work they do.
All people identified on FB have been contacted unless they have an ongoing
claim against Wates. There was more discussion around refusal numbers and
why so many refused. AB claimed that there had been 433 refusals and that
CBC cannot continue with such high numbers.
Page 6 of 8
Wates TL to
confirm letter
changed and
is more
acceptable
Wates to
action
AB said they are spending money on refusals that has implications for Wates.
Emily Clarke acknowledged CBC information does need updating and
Christine Ansell is designing a survey to help resolve this.
Emily is visiting apprehensive tenants to reassure them as a lot of refusals are
from elderly tenants.
AB said they work at a fixed cost a week and refusals are costing them (staff
costs), as they are sending letters.
15
CHRF have asked Wates to our meetings to update us, but in reality all we are
told is how many streams are being done in each category. We would like a more
detailed update good or bad with what progress being made.
CHRF
Tenants reported that Kelly’s performance reports were not giving the
information required by CHRF.
Wates asked for CHRF to specify what information they wanted.
Vicky explained that both Kelly and Emily are happy to meet individually with
tenants at 9.30am before a CHRF meeting to discuss individual properties.
TL agreed that Emily/Kelly would report the customer care performance.
Wates will report the works programme bi-monthly to the CHRF.
Emily and Kelly were thanked for all their work with the FB incident.
No doubt when work is done properly it is good, but the reality is it’s not
consistent
16
This question was not asked. See attached notes from Andy Brown.No
attached notes
17
Any other questions
Andy
Brown
1. Schedule boards cost £17.50. Why are Wates not collecting them after
completion of the works? AB will chase up at Toothill Road and
Staveley Court.
Trish Edwardes thanked Wates for their wonderful kitchens and bathrooms
and acknowledged it was a difficult journey between CBC and Wates. She
also thanked Martin Harper and Emily Clarke CBC for their work on tenant
queries.
TL added an open invitation to CHRF members to attend their Directors
Safety Tour.
Emily and Kelly will extend this invitation to view any properties.
Meeting ended at 12.20pm.
Glossary
CBC
CHRF
TSG
EMTPF
KPIs
FRA
NM
Charnwood Borough Council
Charnwood Housing Residents’ Forum
Tenant Scrutiny Group
East Midlands Tenant Participation Forum
Key Performance Indicators
Fire Risk Assessments
Neighbourhood Monitors
Page 7 of 8
DHP
SCF
HMAB
ASB
CIH
HRA
KPI
Discretionary Housing Payment
Senior Citizens’ Forum
Housing Management Advisory Board
Anti-Social Behaviour
Chartered Institute of Housing
Housing Revenue Account
Key Point Indicator
Charnwood Borough Council Officers
Christine Ansell
Ian Philp
Martin Harper
Julie-Anne Byrne
Vicky Coomber
Emily Clarke
Head of Landlord Services
Landlord Services Manager
Principal Officer Investment &
Programme Delivery
01509 634952
01509 634608
christine.ansell@charnwood.gov.uk
Ian.philp@charnwood.gov.uk
01509 634669
martin.harper@charnwood.gov.uk
Customer Engagement Officer
01509 634955
Customer Engagement Officer
Customer Liaison Officer
01509 634931
01509 634974
Julie-anne.byrne@charnwood.gov.uk
victoria.coomber@charnwood.gov.uk
emily.clarke@charnwood.gov.uk
CHRF Meeting dates, venues and times 2015
Date
19 August
16 September
21 October
18 November
Page 8 of 8
Venue
Committee Room 1, Southfields
Committee Room 1, Southfields
Committee Room 1, Southfields
Committee Room 1, Southfields
Time
10.00am – 13.00pm
10.00am – 13.00pm
10.00am – 13.00pm
10.00am – 13.00pm