From last time
Three kinds of good
 Glaucon’s claim that justice is good as a means
----We act justly to get the benefits of seeming to
be just
The ring of Gyges thought experiment shows us
that we if we can avoid the disadvantages, we
would be unjust when it serves our interests

We need to first discover what justice
is


Socrates: Justice is easier to discover in a city,
then in an individual, so lets discover what
justice is in a city first, then we can better see
how justice applies to individuals.
So they begin to discuss what an ideal city would
be like
The principle of specialization


People have different natural talents. A well run
city will have each person do what they are by
nature best suited for.
If you work at one task regularly you will get
better at that task

372a-372c Socrates describes an ideal city.

But Glaucon objects.


The first ideal city lacks luxuries, it is a simple
city.
Socrates says while the simple city still strikes
him as ideal, it might be useful to look into a
wealthy, “feverish,” city.
What new thing do we get with a
wealthy, feverish city?




WAR!
We need warriors.
Following the principle of specialization, these
warriors need to be those who are best suited
for the task, a professional army.
They also need to be trained appropriately.
The three classes
The warriors will be those best suited to be in the
military class
But there also needs to be a class of rulers. These
too will be people best suited to rule
The city will be composed of three classes:
Guardians, auxilliaries, and producers. Each
composed of people who are naturally suited for
their task
The upper two classes


Will live communally, eat together, will not be
allowed material goods except for their simple
clothes and weapons.
Socrates thinks this will help keep the upper
classes from becoming corrupt.
The myth of the metals



The city will prosper as long as everyone stays in
their appropriate class.
Each is to be taught they have a kind of metal in
their souls—gold for rulers, silver for the
warriors, bronze or iron for the producers
They will also be taught that if the metals ever
mix (if a a non-gold souled person became a
ruler) the city will perish.
Adeimantus’ objection


People will not be happy in this ideal city,
especially the rulers and warriors.
Socrates’ responds that these people will actually
be happiest. But in any case, his concern is with
constructing an ideal city as a whole. It would
not be appropriate to give a part of the city a
happiness that is not appropriate to it.



The city is moderate because of a harmony
between the parts. Each will agree as to who will
rule and be ruled.
The city is just because of the principle of
specialization. Each part performs its natural
function
It is because of justice that the city exhibits the
other three virtues.
Justice in the soul


By analogy, Socrates claims that justice in the
soul be each part of the soul performing its
natural function. Reason will rule, Spirit will aid
reason, and the appetites will be in check
But in order to say this, he needs to show that
the soul is divided into three parts
The principle of opposites



No one thing can have opposite properties
So if the soul at the same time exhibits
oppostite properties, this shows there are at least
two distinct parts
Socrates needs to show reason, spirit, and
appetite are distinct from each other
Reason and Appetite
I desire to drink, and desire not to drink.
 Appetite desires to drink, but reason can tell me
not to. (similar arguments can be given for
hunger, sex etc)
Therefore, appetite is distinct from reason

Spirit and appetite


Leontious desires to look at dead bodies, he
gives in to his desire, but feels repulsion at the
same time.
This shows spirit can rebel against appetite,
desiring the opposite. So its distinct
Spirit and Reason



You can be angry at your friend, but reason
holds you back
Children and animals are spirited, but do not
have reason
Therefore, reason and spirit are distinct
Is this argument any good


Are the examples really examples of opposite
desires, or conflicting desires.
Maybe the best way of describing these different
desires is that they conflict, not that they are
opposites. The desire to eat ice cream and desire
not to be overweight are conflicting but not
opposite desires.
Justice and Conventional morality

Is there any reason to suppose that the person
who is just in Socrates’ sense will also act justly?
The definition of justice does not say anything
about how such an ideally just person will act
Individual and Civic Justice




In the ideal city, only the top class is really ruled
by reason.
But would it not be better to have a society in
which every member is ideally just?
Maybe this is not practical
In one sense everyone in the ideal city obeys
reason, but some do by obeying the rulers,
others by obeying an internal rationality.