DUNDALK TOWN COUNCIL
MINUTES OF INFRASTRUCTURE MUNICIPAL POLICY COMMITTEE HELD IN THE
COUNCIL CHAMBER, TOWN HALL, DUNDALK ON 13th MARCH 2012 AT 5PM
PRESENT
Councillor C Keelan, Chairperson, presided
ALSO PRESENT
Councillor M. Dearey, Councillor M Doyle, Councillor O Morgan, G. Maguire
APOLOGIES
PJ Roddy
A NicGabhann, A/Senior Executive Engineer
IN ATTENDANCE
P McVeigh, Senior Executive Engineer
M Capplis, Senior Staff Officer
118/12
ADOPTION OF MINUTES OF MEETING HELD ON 17TH JANUARY 2012
The adoption of the minutes of the Infrastructure MPC meeting held on
17th January 2012 were proposed by Councillor M Doyle, seconded by
G Maguire and agreed.
119/12
MATTERS ARISING
No matters arising.
120/12
CASUAL TRADING BYE-LAWS
The Chair asked Peter McVeigh to update and clarify the current position on
Casual Trading Bye-Laws. Peter informed the group that he had looked at
Other Casual Trading Bye-Laws and regulations and gone through them to
develop Bye-Laws that Dundalk Town Council required in this instance.
He circulated:
-
Draft Revision of Casual Trading Regulations
Map of existing bays
Photographs
Map of proposal
Peter outlined the proposed changes and gave an update on what bays were
being used, not used and used only seasonally.
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The maximum weight for vans on Market Square is 7.5 tonnes so this
precludes vans from being allocated spaces there.
Existing traders can continue to trade when the new bays are complete
subject to them renewing their licence.
Councillor M Doyle suggested adding a clause instructing them not to use
any part of the footpath for trading/display, but to stay clearly in the marked
bays.
Peter replied that when they apply for a licence they have to state what they
are selling, and the dimensions of the selling space/pitch will be clearly
indicated to them. However this may be more difficult on Market Square.
Gerry Maguire queried the provision of hooks to control canopies during
inclement weather, however Peter pointed out that these were considered a
Health & Safety Hazard. Councillor M Dearey asked whose responsibility it
was to enforce the Bye-Laws and Peter informed him that it would fall under
the remit of the Litter Wardens.
Peter discussed the layout, which will include a monthly market. There would
also be proposed back-up bays in Earl Street if there’s an event in Market
Square.
Councillor M Dearey felt that this would be a complex issue and process and
would be difficult to please everyone involved.
A discussion took place on the idea for the provision of hot food stands
inside the Square and the Chair, Councillor C Keelan, asked if anyone had
requested this facility as yet? Peter said that no there had been no requests.
Another proposal was a night time food stand and Peter showed a photo
detailing the wide footpath/pedestrian area outside Jubago. It was discussed
as to whether there would be objections and opposition to having a night
time food stand here.
An area of loading/unloading of vehicles is provided and vehicles must be
removed once they have unloaded.
There have been issues relating to ‘Market Right’ in the past, and this needs
to be looked at. Peter suggested that this right should be extinguished when
the new regulations are put in place.
Electricity will be provided for the new bays on Market Square.
Charges will apply and Councillor M Dearey queried how much would the
charges be? Peter informed him that they would be negligible and not large.
Around the country bays are distinguished by bay type.
For Example – Type A - €set price
Type B – another price
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However this price structure has proved problematic around the country
when they looked at reviewing their Bye-Laws.
Gerry asked if we could stipulate a certain amount of usage. Peter replied
that some traders use their bay only during July fortnight while others have
an annual licence.
Councillor M Dearey queried why we facilitate the sale of 3rd party goods that
are available in Supermarket (e.g. Washing up liquid etc) when ratepayers
pay commercial rates for their trading in town. Could we stipulate when they
apply for licence that this would not be permitted when we introduce the new
Bye-Laws. Councillor M Doyle agreed with Councillor M Dearey and gave
example of yellow Van which was more like a ‘shop on wheels’. Peter replied
that whether it’s casual trading or market rights – people believe that they
have a right to sell these items. Chair, Councillor C Keelan, gave an example
of what happens in Fingal County Council where no items like seafood/ice
creams could be sold but other items could. A discussion ensued on this
issue and there was agreement that home grown produce was acceptable
but not products that were available in the supermarket. Councillor M
Dearey suggested getting legal guidance on this and could we invite legal
advice to the next meeting.
Peter pointed out that once in place Casual Trading can be regulated quite
tightly. Gerry asked if Market rights were attached to the location or to certain
families? Peter gave examples from old photographs of Dundalk showing
people trading off the ground for generations, including old pictures of
eggs/ducks being sold; market outside Green Church; Turkey Market at St
Patrick’s Cathedral. In its day – markets were the way for trade before
supermarkets.
Peter remarked that in relation to market rights/casual trading, the courts
have previously upheld objections and squashed others, depending on the
circumstances. David Storey (SEO, DTC) has been trying to merge the two
– Market rights/Casual trading to see how it would pan out with Market
Traders.
Peter says the more you examine it the bigger the issue has become.
Councillor M Dearey asked the committee to be open to having a legal imput.
Chair, Councillor C Keelan, agreed. Peter suggested sending copy of this to
Larry Steen, DTC Solicitor.
Gerry said he was open to doing away with the rights, however Peter said it
would be easier to manage if everyone was under the one umbrella.
Councillor M Doyle said that enforcement was hugely important and Peter
said he had worked with the litter wardens is aware of the problems that they
encounter with enforcement.
Chair, Councillor C Keelan, said it would be important to emphasise all the
potential gains for the traders. Councillor M Dearey said that no hot food
stands around the post office at 3am – that was a thing of the past? (not sure
I’ve got this right?) However there was one in Park Street and Chair,
Councillor C Keelan, noted that there were crowds around the Europa in Earl
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Street. Councillor M Dearey commended the decision to extend the trading
hours.
Gerry stated that the key to getting control of the issues was through
insurances - €2 PL insurances was small, and the scope could be reviewed
???
He wasn’t aware of the type of insurance that Carrickmacross Market has,
but Peter said that IPB would advise re: suitable figure.
Chair, Councillor C Keelan, asked Peter to come back to the group with a
draft of the Bye-Laws. Peter requested that if the group wanted any changes
made to the proposal/maps he would amend and draft the Bye-Laws. These
would then be passed onto David Storey, SEO Corporate Services, Dundalk
Town Council and also to the Gardai for comment.
Councillor Dearey enquired if the Casual Traders have any imput into the
Bye-Laws and Peter said that the public representatives could talk to the
traders.
Chair, Councillor C Keelan, outlined the process involved in adopting the
Bye-Laws including public display, submissions, full council, adoption.
With regard to the legal side, Peter suggested that all legal documentation
relating to this could be found on www.irishstatutebook.ie and cases can be
read online at www.courtservice.ie where judgements had been sought and
precedents had been set.
121/12
DATE FOR NEXT MEETING
It was agreed that the next meeting of this Committee will take place at 5 pm
on Tuesday, 15th May 2012 in the Council Chamber, Town Hall.
Signed this ___________ day of _________________ 2012
______________________________________________
P MCVEIGH, SENIOR EXECUTIVE ENGINEER
_______________________________________________
COUNCILLOR C KEELAN CHAIRPERSON MPC
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