NICK WALKER
OCTOBER 29, 2014
ALLAN HOLLANDER: HI. WE DIDN’T KNOW WHEN WE SCHEDULED THIS EVENT WE WOULD BE
COMPETING WITH BILL CLINTON, BUT HERE WE HAVE IT. I THINK WE’LL GET STARTED NOW. I’M A MEMBER
OF THE CAMPUS COMMUNITY BOOK PROJECT PROGRAM PLANNING COMMITTEE. I WILL BE INTRODUCING
NICK WALKER. BEFORE WE GET STARTED, THERE ARE A COUPLE THINGS ON YOUR CHAIR, A BROCHURE
LISTING THE FUTURE AND PAST EVENTS WITH A LINK TO THE URL ON THE WEBSITE AND WE HOPE YOU
WILL BE INTENDING SOME OF THE OTHER EVENTS.
ON FEBRUARY 10TH, THERE WILL BE THE LECTURE WITH TEMPLE GRANDIN WITH INFORMATION ON
GETTING TICKETS AS WELL. THERE IS AN EVALUATION FORM AND FILL IT OUT AND LEAVE IT ON THE
CHAIR FOR US TO PICK UP.
MY BACKGROUND, I’M A STAFF RESEARCHER AND GEOGRAPHER IN THE ENVIRONMENTAL SCIENCE
AND POLICY DEPARTMENTS. AND I’M A MIDDLE-AGED GUY ON AN IDENTITY QUEST. I DISCOVERED A
MOVEMENT, NEUROCOSMOPOLITANISM ON NICK WALKER’S SITE. HE HAS A WONDERFUL ESSAY, LAYING
OUT THE PRINCIPLES OF THE NEURO DIVERSITY PARADIGM, “THROW AWAY THE MASTER’S TOOLS.” THE
POLITICAL TERM HE MAKES IN THIS ESSAY, LINKING ONE’S OWN PSYCHOLOGICAL CONFIGURATION TO
DIVERSITY, TO BE EMPOWERING. I’M EXCITED HE IS ABLE TO JOIN US AND GIVE US THIS PRESENTATION
AS PART OF THE BOOK PROJECT.
HIS TALK IS ON HIS EXPERIENCE IN AUTISM, IDENTITY AND CULTURE. HE WILL INTRODUCE THE
NEURO DIVERSITY PARADIGM AS NATURAL AND AS VALUABLE MANIFESTATIONS OF HUMAN DIVERSITY
AND IS CHALLENGING OLD DISCOURSES ABOUT AUTISM.
NICK IS AN AUTISTIC EDUCATOR, ACTIVIST AND SCHOLAR. HE TEACHES THE UNDERGRADUATE
PSYCHOLOGY PROGRAMS AND AT THE CALIFORNIA INSTITUTE OF INTEGRAL STUDIES. HE HOLDS A 6TH
DEGREE BACK BELT. HE HAS BEEN A LEADER IN AUTISM CULTURES SINCE 2003. JOIN ME IN WELCOMING
NICK WALKER. (APPLAUSE)
NICK WALKER: THANK YOU. LET ME KNOW IF IT IS HARD TO HEAR ME. JUST PUT UP A HAND OR
PROTEST LOUDLY.
SO, HI. I’M NICK IT IS GOOD TO BE HERE TODAY. WHAT I DO, I DO A FAIR AMOUNT OF SPEAKING AT
COLLEGES AND VARIOUS PLACES. AND I NEVER GIVE THE SAME TALK TWICE. I’M A BIG BELIEVER IN JUST
DIRECT INTERACTION WITH THE AUDIENCE AND MAKING SURE THAT I’M ANSWERING YOUR INTERESTS IN
WHAT I SAY.
SO, TYPICALLY WHAT I DO IS GIVE AN INTRODUCTORY TALK FOR 20 OR 30 MINUTES AND THEN I
START TAKING QUESTIONS AND THEN I START RESPONDING. SO DEFINITELY, MAKE MENTAL NOTES OF
ANY QUESTIONS THAT COME UP BECAUSE MOST OF THIS IS GOING TO BE DISCUSSION AND Q AND A. WE
DON’T HAVE A LOT OF TIME TODAY, I’VE BEEN KNOWN TO DO FOUR HOUR Q AND A SESSIONS WHEN
PEOPLE LET ME.
IN 1990, AN AUSTRALIAN PERSON, JUDY SINGER, CAME UP WITH THE TERM, “NEURO DIVERSITY.” IT
IS THE DIVERSITY OF HUMAN MINDS AND HUMAN BRAINS. AND IT IS A FORM OF HUMAN DIVERSITY THE
WAY ETHNIC DIVERSITY OR GENDER DIVERSITY OR CULTURAL DIVERSITY. BUT HAVING A WORD LIKE THAT
RIGHT AWAY HAS POWERFUL IMPLICATIONS. AND THESE IMPLICATIONS, WELL, IT IS A FORM OF HUMAN
DIVERSITY. IT IS PART OF THE SPECTRUM OF HUMAN DIVERSITY AND IT INVITES US. IT INVITES US TO
START LOOKING AT NEUROLOGICAL DIVERSITY THE WAY WE LOOK AT ETHNIC DIVERSITY AND SEXUAL
ORIENTATION AND CULTURAL DIVERSITY.
WHAT CAN WE LEARN BY LOOKING AT THESE OTHER FORMS OF DIVERSITY AND SEEING HOW DO
THE LESSONS WE LEARNED IN DEALING WITH THE OTHER FORMS OF HUMAN DIVERSITY, HOW DO THEY
APPLY TO NEUROLOGICAL DIVERSITY?
AT THE MOMENT, DISCOURSE ON AUTISM, ON SCHIZOPHRENIA, DYSLEXIA, WHAT IS CALLED ADHD THESE
DAYS, DISCOURSE ON ANY MINORITY VARIATION AND HOW THE HUMAN BRAIN CAN BE CONFIGURED, IT IS
DOMINATED BY WHAT IS CALLED THE “PATHOLOGY PARADIGM.” THAT SAYS THERE IS ONE RIGHT WAY TO
BE AND ONE WAY THAT IS NORMAL. THERE IS ONE WAY THAT IS HEALTHY. AND ANYTHING THAT
DEVIATES FROM THIS TO A CERTAIN NOTICEABLE DEGREE, IS A PATHOLOGY; A DISORDER OF SOME KIND,
A DEFICIT.
MOST OF THIS DOMINANT CULTURE FIELDS LIKE EDUCATION AND PSYCHOLOGY HAVE ACCEPTED
THIS PARADIGM AND IT IS REALLY BUILT INTO THE LANGUAGE VERY MUCH WHEN WE TALK. AUTISM IN
PARTICULAR, AND HOW WE TALK ABOUT AUTISM, TO SPEAK OF IT AS A DISORDER. IT IS BUILT INTO
PEOPLE’S PERSPECTIVES. IT IS JUST THERE IN THE CULTURE, UNQUESTIONED. BUT WHAT HAPPENS
WHEN WE START QUESTIONING THE PATHOLOGY PARADIGM?
AND WE LOOK AT THIS NEW PARADIGM THAT IS EMERGING, THE NEURO DIVERSITY PARADIGM. THAT
SAYS, “WELL, WHAT IS UP WITH THIS PATHOLOGY PARADIGM? THIS IDEA THAT THERE IS ONE RIGHT WAY
TO BE?” PEOPLE HAVE THOUGHT THIS IN THE PAST ABOUT OTHER FORMS OF HUMAN DIVERSITY. PEOPLE
HAVE THOUGHT THAT THERE IS ONE RIGHT ETHNICITY AND EVERYONE ELSE IS INFERIOR RACE OR
SAVAGES. PEOPLE THOUGHT THERE IS ONE RIGHT CULTURE OR ONE RIGHT SEXUAL ORIENTATION.
WHEN I WAS A KID, HOMOSEXUALITY WAS STILL LISTED AS A MENTAL DISORDER IN THE DSM AND
NOW IT IS NOT. SO A GOAL OF MINE IS FOR AUTISM NOT TO BE IN THE DSM EITHER, IN 20 OR 30 YEARS. I
DON’T KNOW IF IT WILL HAPPEN THAT SOON, BUT YOU KNOW, 50 YEARS AGO, NOBODY WOULD HAVE
THOUGHT THEY WOULD TAKE HOMOSEXUALITY OUT OF THE DSM. EVERYBODY THOUGHT OF IT AS A
DISORDER OF SOME KIND, A DISEASE, ILLNESS, DISTURBANCE OF SOME SORT.
NOW IF YOU SAY THAT, MANY PLACES, CERTAINLY IN THE BAY AREA AND MUCH OF CALIFORNIA AND
THE WORLD, IF YOU TALK ABOUT HOMOSEXUALITY AS A DISORDER, PEOPLE LOOK AT YOU LIKE, WHAT IS
UP WITH THAT?
THESE THINGS CHANGE. THE PARADIGMS DO SHIFT. SO WHAT HAPPENS HERE WHEN WE MAKE THIS
SHIFT? AUTISM COMMUNITIES, THERE ARE PEOPLE WITHIN THE AUTISTIC COMMUNITY WHO ARE STARTING
TO MAKE THAT SHIFT OR WHO HAVE MADE IT FROM THE PATHOLOGY PARADIGM TO THE NEURO DIVERSITY
PARADIGM. AND THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO ARE STILL STRUGGLING WITH THE SHIFT, WHO HAVE NOT MADE
THE SHIFT OR ARE COMPROMISING WITH THE SHIFT BECAUSE IT IS HARD TO LET GO OF AN OLD
PARADIGM. IT IS HARD TO MAKE A SHIFT AWAY.
AND IT IS SAD LOOKING AT THAT WITHIN THE AUTISTIC COMMUNITY AND PARTICULARLY, BECAUSE
WHAT I SEE AS INTERNALIZED OPPRESSION GOING ON. PEOPLE HAVE – IT IS SO PRESENT IN THE CULTURE
AND AUTISTIC PEOPLE ARE RAISED WITH THIS IDEA THAT THERE IS SOMETHING WRONG WITH THEM. AND I
SEE IT BEING VERY HARD TO SHAKE, VERY HARD TO LET GO OF THAT AND SAY, WHAT DOES IT MEAN?
WHAT ARE THE IMPLICATIONS OF SAYING THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH ME? THERE IS NOTHING
WRONG WITH ME ANYMORE THAN THERE IS SOMETHING WRONG WITH SOMEONE FOR NOT BEING WHITE
OR NOT BEING HETEROSEXUAL OR NOT BEING MALE. THIS IS A TOUGH SHIFT FOR PEOPLE TO MAKE.
AND IT IS A SHIFT THAT HAS HAPPENED IN THE LANGUAGE AND HOW WE FRAME THESE THINGS AND
HOW WE THINK AND TALK ABOUT THEM. BECAUSE HOW WE TALK ABOUT THEM EMERGES FROM HOW WE
THINK ABOUT THEM. HOW WE TALK ABOUT THINGS SHAPES HOW WE THINK ABOUT THINGS. SO THERE IS
A LOT OF IMPLICATIONS THAT SERVE US.
FOR INSTANCE, ONE OF THE BIG STRUGGLES THAT THE AUTISTIC COMMUNITY DEALS WITH IS JUST
WHAT IS CALLED “PERSON FIRST” LANGUAGE, IS A BIG ONE.
THERE’S SORT OF AMONG NON-AUTISTIC PROFESSIONALS, NON-AUTISTIC PEOPLE WHO CLAIM TO BE
EXPERTS ON AUTISM, AND AMONG PARENTS OF AUTISTIC CHILDREN AND SUCH, THERE IS A LARGE MOVE
TO USE WHAT IS CALLED “PERSON FIRST LANGUAGE.” WHICH IS SAYING PEOPLE WITH AUTISM. AND
THAT IS SOMETHING THAT AUTISTIC ACTIVISTS ARE FIGHTING TOOTH AND NAIL AGAINST. AUTISTIC
PEOPLE. BECAUSE WHEN WE SAY PEOPLE WITH AUTISM, IMMEDIATELY YOU FRAME IT AS A DISEASE. LIKE
PEOPLE WITH CANCER, BUT WE DON’T SAY PEOPLE WITH HOMOSEXUALITY OR WE DON’T CALL ETHNIC
MINORITIES, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE WITH AFRICAN AMERICANISM. NO. THEY ARE AFRICAN AMERICAN,
STRAIGHT PEOPLE, GAY PEOPLE, WHITE PEOPLE, NOT PEOPLE WITH MALENESS OR FEMALENESS.
WHEN WE ACCEPT SOMETHING AS PART OF THE NATURAL SPECTRUM OF HUMAN DIVERSITY, WE
SAY, NO, WE ARE AUTISTIC PEOPLE. WE’RE AUTISTIC. THAT IS WHY AUTISTIC PEOPLE, YOU KNOW AND
THIS PERSON FIRST LANGUAGE CREATES THE SEPARATION. AS IF THIS IS A SHAMEFUL THING THAT WE
WANT TO DISTANCE OURSELVES FROM.
THAT HAS BEEN A HUGE STRUGGLE. AND YOU GO INTO – IF YOU DARE, GO INTO ON LINE
DISCUSSION GROUPS WHERE PEOPLE ARE TALKING ABOUT AUTISM, AND BOY, THOSE THINGS GET MESSY
AND UGLY. YOU GO IN THERE AND YOU CAN REALLY SEE LIKE WHAT SIDE OF THE PARADIGM SHIFT AND
WHAT SIDE OF THE CULTURAL BATTLE LINES ARE PEOPLE ON? AND YOU CAN TELL ENTIRELY IF THEY SAY
AUTISTIC PEOPLE OR PEOPLE WITH AUTISM. AND PEOPLE HAVE HORRIFIC FIGHTS ABOUT THIS. IT IS SO
ODD ABOUT HOW WE TALK ABOUT THESE THINGS NOW.
IF YOU THINK ABOUT IT AS, WELL, HOW WOULD YOU TALK ABOUT ANY OTHER MANIFESTATION OF
HUMAN DIVERSITY? HOW WOULD YOU TALK ABOUT SEXUAL OR GENDER MINORITY OR CULTURAL, ETHNIC
MINORITY? AND YOU WOULDN’T TALK THAT WAY ABOUT AN ETHNIC OR CULTURAL OR GENDER MINORITY.
YOU SHOULDN’T TALK THAT WAY ABOUT A NEUROLOGICAL MINORITY. THAT IS HOW WE’RE TRYING TO
SHIFT THE LANGUAGE. DON’T SAY IT ABOUT AUTISTIC PEOPLE IF YOU WOULDN’T SAY IT ABOUT NONWHITE PEOPLE OR NON-HETEROSEXUAL PEOPLE OR A MEMBER OF WHATEVER GROUP YOU BELONG TO.
WOULD YOU WANT TO BE DESCRIBED THIS WAY? FIGHTING AGAINST WORDS LIKE DISORDER, IT IS FUNNY
HOW TAKEN FOR GRANTED IT IS. WE SEE SUPPOSEDLY MUTUAL SCIENTIFIC RESEARCH USE THE TERM
ASD ALL THE TIME FOR AUTISTIC SPECTRUM DISORDER. HOW IS THIS NEUTRAL RESEARCH? KEEP IN
MIND, DISORDER, YOU KNOW, WE’RE NOT TALKING ABOUT CANCER HERE. WE’RE NOT TALKING ABOUT
ANYTHING WHERE WE CAN LOOK IN WITH A MICROSCOPE AND SEE HERE, LOOK AT A BLOOD SAMPLE AND
SEE, HERE IS THIS DISEASE ATTACKING THE BODY.
WE’RE TALKING ABOUT SOMETHING THAT IS PART OF THE HUMAN GENE POOL. LIKE ETHNIC TRAITS,
SEXUAL ORIENTATION, GENDER TRAITS. SO CALLING IT A DISORDER, IS NOT IN FACT, SCIENTIFIC. IT IS A
CULTURAL VALUE JUDGMENT. AND TO PUT THAT IN SCIENTIFIC RESEARCH, WELL, RIGHT THERE, THE
RESEARCH IS BIASED. IT IS BIASED JUST BY CALLING IT SUB- POPULATION BY CALLING IT OBJECTS OF
STUDY DISORDERS WITHOUT ANY SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE. AND MOST PEOPLE DON’T STOP TO THINK ABOUT
THIS BECAUSE THE PATHOLOGY PARADIGM IS SO DOMINANT. DON’T STOP TO THINK, WELL, HOW DO WE
KNOW IT IS A DISORDER? WE KNOW IT IS A DISORDER BECAUSE LOTS OF PEOPLE CALL IT A DISORDER?
SO THIS IS JUST A CULTURAL PARADIGM.
SO, THERE IS THIS PROCESS. I’M A MARTIAL ARTIST AND I PRACTICE ZEN MEDITATION. AND MY OWN
WORK OUTSIDE OF THE AUTISM-RELATED STUFF, I’M VERY INTO MINDFULNESS PRACTICES. THAT IS KIND
OF MY FIELD, YOU KNOW. I FELL INTO THE AUTISM AND NEURO DIVERSITY FIELD BY VIRTUE OF BEING
AUTISTIC AND BEING INVOLVED IN THE AUTISTIC COMMUNITY. MINDFUL PRACTICES ARE MY FIELD OF
STUDY. I THINK OF THIS AS A MINDFUL PRACTICE. WE’RE SEEING THIS AND EVERYBODY IS SAYING THIS,
PEOPLE ARE SAYING DISORDER USING THIS PARTICULAR KIND OF LANGUAGE AND MAKING THESE
PARTICULAR ASSUMPTIONS.
LET’S TAKE A MOMENT AND QUESTION THE ASSUMPTION, WHERE IS THIS COMING FROM? IS THIS
JUST AN ASSUMPTION? DO WE HAVE EVIDENCE FOR THIS OR IS THIS JUST AN ASSUMPTION AND WHAT IF
WE CHANGE IT? WHAT IF WE STOP AND RECONSTRUCT OUR LANGUAGE, DECONSTRUCT THE LANGUAGE
AND RECONSTRUCT IT? BUILD SOMETHING NEW?
I HEAR ALL THESE – I LOVE THE TERM, “AUTISM SPECTRUM” YES, EVERY AUTISTIC PERSON IS
DIFFERENT AND THERE IS I ENORMOUS VARIATION IN AUTISTIC MINDS. BUT EVERY NON-AUTISTIC PERSON
IS ALSO DIFFERENT, VASTLY DIFFERENT. NON-AUTISTIC PEOPLE ARE VASTLY DIFFERENT FROM EACH
OTHER. DO YOU LOOK AT ALL OF THE PEOPLE – I DON’T KNOW WHICH PEOPLE IN THE ROOM ARE
AUTISTIC AND WHICH ARE NOT. IF YOU LOOK AT ALL OF THE NON-AUTISTIC PEOPLE IN THE ROOM YOU
THINK AND MOVE DIFFERENTLY FROM EACH OTHER. YET, WE DON’T SAY, THE NEURO TYPICAL SPECTRUM.
WHY? WHY DO WE HAVE TO USE THE TERM AUTISTIC SPECTRUM TO REMIND US THAT NOT ALL AUTISTIC
PEOPLE ARE ALIKE. WE DON’T TALK ABOUT THE WHITE AND THE GAY SPECTRUM. SOMEHOW WE KNOW
THAT WHITE AND GAY PEOPLE AND HETEROSEXUAL PEOPLE WITHOUT SAYING IT, THAT THEY ARE NOT
ALL ALIKE. SO WHY AUTISTIC SPECTRUM?
ANOTHER BIG ONE THAT AUTISTIC ACTIVISTS ARE FIGHTING AGAINST THESE DAYS IS FUNCTIONING
LABELS, WHICH ARE HEAVILY USED BY PROFESSIONALS, PSYCHOLOGISTS AND DOCTORS AND ALSO BY
PARENTS OF AUTISTIC KIDS WHO HAVEN’T SHIFTED OVER TO THE NEURO DIVERSITY PARADIGM. HIGH
FUNCTIONING LABELS ARE HIGH AND LOW FUNCTIONING.
LET’S THINK ABOUT WHAT THAT MEANS. THERE IS AN ASSUMPTION HERE ON THE PART OF
WHOEVER IS USING THESE TERMS, HIGH FUNCTIONING AND LOW FUNCTIONING, THERE IS AN ASSUMPTION
THAT WE’RE ALL AGREED ABOUT WHAT THE PROPER FUNCTION OF A HUMAN BEING IS. NOW, THE
WORLD’S RELIGIONS HAVE NOT AGREED ON THAT YET. SO I’M SKEPTICAL. I’M SKEPTICAL THAT WE KNOW
WHAT THE PROPER FUNCTION OF THE HUMAN BEING IS.
IF YOU LOOK AT HIGH FUNCTIONING AND LOW FUNCTIONING AND HOW THE TERMS ARE USED,
AGAIN, THE BASIS IS THE PATHOLOGY PARADIGM. IT IS THIS ONE ASSUMPTION, WHICH IS THAT THERE IS
ONE RIGHT HEALTHY WAY FOR A HUMAN BEING AND HUMAN MIND TO FUNCTION, AND IT IS NOT THE
AUTISTIC WAY. THE WAY HIGH FUNCTIONING IS USED TO ME, COMES CLOSER TO PASSING AS NONAUTISTIC, AND LOW FUNCTIONING IS FURTHER FROM PASSING. IT IS LIKE IF A GAY MAN WERE TO STAY IN
THE CLOSET AND MARRY A WOMAN AND HAVE KIDS AND LIVE A TOTALLY STRAIGHT LIFE AND NEVER,
EVER STEP OUT OF THE CLOSET, IS HE HIGH FUNCTIONING? IS STRAIGHT THE RIGHT WAY FOR PEOPLE TO
FUNCTION?
WHEN WE LOOK AT IT THAT WAY, IT IS OUTRAGEOUS TO SAY THAT PEOPLE ARE HIGH AND LOW
FUNCTIONING. I WILL SAY I MAY HAVE A HIGH OR LOW FUNCTIONING DAY BASED ON HOW I THINK I
SHOULD BE FUNCTIONING. BUT NOBODY ELSE GETS TO SAY HOW I SHOULD BE FUNCTIONING, WHAT MY
PROPER FUNCTIONING IS. THERE IS A LOT OF CULTURAL ASSUMPTIONS THERE. IS HIGH FUNCTIONING
BEING ABLE TO HOLD A JOB? PRODUCE MORE WEALTH FOR THE SYSTEM? NOT NECESSARILY.
WHAT IF THE PROPER FUNCTION OF HUMANS IS TO APPRECIATE THE BEAUTY OF THE UNIVERSE? IN THAT
CASE, I KNOW SOME AUTISTIC PEOPLE WHO CAN’T SPEAK AND CAN’T REALLY TAKE CARE OF
THEMSELVES WELL IN TERMS OF DAILY TASKS, BUT THEY ARE VERY HIGH FUNCTIONING BECAUSE THEY
HAVE AN ABILITY TO APPRECIATE THE BEAUTY OF THINGS DEEPLY THAT I RARELY SEE IN NON-AUTISTIC
PEOPLE, OUTSIDE OF MONASTERIES AND SUCH.
SO THIS IS THE BASIC -- THIS IS THE WORK I DO THESE DAYS. IT IS SORT OF TRYING TO WAKE
PEOPLE UP TO THIS PARADIGM SHIFT AND GET PEOPLE QUESTIONING THESE ASSUMPTIONS. ONCE YOU
MAKE THAT SHIFT, A WHOLE LOT OF OTHER THINGS START HAPPENING; START SHIFTING. THINGS START
FALLING INTO PLACE OR OUT OF PLACE IN GOOD WAYS.
SO, WHEN YOU MAKE THAT SHIFT, THEN YOU START QUESTIONING, WELL, HOW ARE WE DEALING
WITH AUTISTIC PEOPLE AND DEALING WITH THE PRESENCE OF AUTISTIC PEOPLE IN OUR SOCIETY? HOW
ARE WE ACCOMMODATING THEM AND HOW DO WE EDUCATE THEM? AND WHY DO WE DO IT THE WAY WE
DO IT? THERE IS A LOT OF DEBATE OVER WHAT IS THE BEST WAY TO DO IT AND HOW DO YOU RAISE AN
AUTISTIC CHILD AND ACCOMMODATE AN AUTISTIC COLLEGE STUDENT OR ADULT? WHAT IF WE START
BASING OUR PRACTICES ON THE NEURO DIVERSITY PARADIGM?
RIGHT NOW, FOR INSTANCE, THE MOST POPULAR METHOD – WELL, WHAT I WANT TO SAY, FIRST OF
ALL, I WAS GOING TO SAY THE MOST POPULAR TREATMENT, THEN I REALIZED THAT IN ITSELF IS A BIG
QUESTION. THAT IS PATHOLOGY PARADIGM LANGUAGE RIGHT THERE. JUST THE IDEA THAT AUTISM IS
SOMETHING THAT NEEDS TO BE TREATED.
I MEAN, AUTISTIC KIDS ARE BORN WITH ALL SORTS OF NEEDS, BUT SO ARE NON-AUTISTIC KIDS. IF
YOU ARE A PARENT, YOU KNOW. KIDS HAVE TO BE TAUGHT EVERYTHING. THEY ARE NOT BORN TOILET
TRAINED OR THEY DON’T KNOW HOW TO READ. THEY DON’T KNOW HOW TO TALK. WOW, THEY ARE A
TOTAL FIXER UPPER YOU GET THERE.
I MEAN, I HAVE A NON-AUTISTIC KID AND THEY NEED A LOT. SO DO AUTISTIC KIDS. AND THEY HAVE
A DIFFERENT SET OF NEEDS. BUT, WHEN WE WORK TO MEET THE NEEDS OF NON-AUTISTIC KIDS, WHEN
WE HAVE A NON-AUTISTIC KID AND WE SAY, “WHAT IS THIS KID GOING TO NEED TO BE ABLE TO GET BY IN
THE WORLD? AND HOW DO I GIVE IT TO THEM?” WE CALL THAT RAISING A CHILD. AND WE CALL THAT
EDUCATION. BUT WHEN WE ASK THE SAME QUESTION ABOUT AN AUTISTIC KID, WE CALL IT TREATMENT
AND THERAPY. THERE IS PREJUDICIAL LANGUAGE RIGHT THERE.
AND THEN WHAT ARE THE TREATMENTS? WHAT ARE THE PRACTICES THAT EMERGE FROM THE
PATHOLOGY PARADIGM? WHAT EMERGES ARE THE BIGGEST TREATMENT IS SOMETHING CALLED ABA,
APPLIED BEHAVIORAL ANALYSIS, WHICH HAS BEEN THE BIG TREND THE PAST COUPLE DECADES. THAT IS
BEHAVIORAL CONDITIONING, KIND OF LIKE DOG TRAINING, WHERE IT IS OLD-STYLE DOG TRAINING WHERE
YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED TO DO THAT TO DOGS ANYMORE IN MOST OF THE COUNTRY.
IT IS THIS BEHAVIORIST PROGRAM WHERE THE IDEA IS TO MAKE THE AUTISTIC KIDS OUTWARDLY
INDISTINGUISHABLE FROM NON-AUTISTIC KIDS, YOU ARE PROGRAMMING THEM TO PASS. AND THAT’S THE
GOAL. BUT IS THAT THE BEST THING FOR THEM?
WELL IT’S NOT.
THE AUTISTIC PEOPLE I KNOW WHO WENT THROUGH ABA AS KIDS ARE TRAUMATIZED BY IT. THEY
ARE A MESS. THEY ARE A WRECK. IT IS REALLY DAMAGING, BECAUSE AUTISTIC PEOPLE – WE HAVE
PARTICULAR WAYS THAT OUR BODIES WORK AND PARTICULAR WAYS THAT OUR MINDS WORK. AND WAYS
THAT THE BODY HAS TO MOVE IN ORDER FOR THE MIND TO DO ITS THING. IF YOU ARE TRYING TO
SUPPRESS ALL OF THAT, SUPPRESS ALL OF THE OUTWARD SIGNS, WHAT HAPPENS TO THE DEVELOPMENT
OF THE PSYCHE? WE KNOW BETTER THAN THAT WITH THE NON-AUTISTIC KIDS. WE KNOW IF THEY ARE A
TYPICAL CHILD THAT THERE’S – THEY HAVE THEIR STRATEGIES FOR REGULATING THEMSELVES AND WE
FIND WAYS TO ENCOURAGE THEM TO BE THEMSELVES IN CERTAIN WAYS.
WITH NON-AUTISTIC CHILDREN, WHAT DO WE TELL THEM? WHAT DO WE TELL THEM? WE TELL
THEM, YOU’RE GOOD THE WAY YOU ARE, BE YOURSELF. YOU HAVE TO FOLLOW THESE RULES IN THE
HOUSE, BUT YOU’RE GOOD, BE YOURSELF, STRIVE TO BE THE BEST PERSON YOU CAN BE.
BUT WITH AUTISTIC KIDS, WE SAY, NO, THERE IS SOMETHING WRONG WITH YOU, STRIVE TO BE ORDINARY.
WE KNOW NOT TO DO THAT WITH NON-AUTISTIC KIDS. BUT THERE IS THIS ASSUMPTION, AGAIN, THAT
THERE IS SOMETHING WRONG WITH AUTISM. AND IT IS JUST A CULTURAL ASSUMPTION. AND THEN WE
BUILD OUR PRACTICES ON HOW DO WE SUPPRESS AND GET RID OF IT AND HIDE IT, THIS SHAMEFUL
TERRIBLE THING. WHY? AND WHAT HAPPENS IF WE DON’T START WITH THAT ASSUMPTION? WHAT
HAPPENS IF WE START BUILDING PRACTICES THAT ARE NOT “HOW DO WE MAKE YOU LOOK LIKE A NON-
AUTISTIC KID OR LIKE OUR MODEL OF WHAT A NORMAL KID SHOULD BE, BUT HOW DO WE HELP YOU GROW
UP INTO THE BEST AUTISTIC KID YOU CAN BE?”
MY OWN EXPERIENCE, I DID NOT GET SUBJECTED TO ANY OF THOSE BEHAVIORS AND TREATMENTS
PARTLY BECAUSE I’M OLD AND THEY WERE NOT WIDESPREAD AND MY PARENTS DID NOT HAVE ACCESS
TO ANY KIND OF HEALTH SERVICES OR ANYTHING. AND ALSO MY DAD IS AUTISTIC, HE DIDN’T KNOW, BUT
HE IS. PEOPLE WOULD COMPLAIN TO HIM ABOUT BEHAVIORS, “THERE IS SOMETHING WEIRD ABOUT YOUR
KID.” “I DON’T KNOW, SEEMS NORMAL TO ME.” BUT OTHER ADULTS AROUND ME CLEARLY THOUGHT
THERE WAS SOMETHING WRONG WITH ME, BUT I MANAGED TO SLIP THROUGH THE CRACKS BY VIRTUE OF
BEING LOW INCOME AND MARGINALIZED AND STUFF.
STILL, I RECEIVED PLENTY OF CULTURAL MESSAGES JUST FROM THE SURROUNDING CULTURE
ABOUT HOW TO ACT AND LOOK. MY LIFE STARTED GETTING MUCH BETTER WHEN I DITCHED THOSE AND
MADE THAT SHIFT ON MY OWN TO THE NEURO DIVERSITY PARADIGM AND SAID, “WAIT, I’M AUTISTIC,
WHAT’S THAT REALLY MEAN? HOW DOES MY BODY WANT TO MOVE? HOW DO I FORGET WHAT ANYONE
HAS TOLD ME ABOUT HOW BODIES SHOULD MOVE AND THE BRAIN SHOULD WORK? WHAT DOES MINE
WANT TO DO?” IF YOU WANT TO TALK ABOUT HIGH AND LOW FUNCTIONING, MY CAPACITY TO DO THINGS,
MY MENTAL CAPACITY INCREASED JUST BY MAKING THAT SHIFT ON MY OWN. TO HELL WITH WHAT
ANYBODY ELSE SAYS, I WANT TO FOLLOW MY OWN RHYTHMS AND LET MY BRAIN DO WHAT IT DOES.
SCREW NORMAL OR PASSING OR ANYTHING. AND MY OUTCOME HAS BEEN GOOD.
I THINK THAT WE HAVE IT BACKWARDS IN TERMS OF WHAT’S GOOD FOR AUTISTIC PEOPLE. IF WE
START WITH WHAT IS GOOD FOR AUTISTIC PEOPLE, AND THAT IS TO START BEING AUTISTIC. WHAT ARE
GOOD OUTCOMES FOR PEOPLE’S LIVES. GOOD QUALITY OF LIFE. I MAKE A LIVING DOING THINGS I LOVE.
I’M HAPPILY MARRIED AND HAVE A KID AND THESE ARE ALL GOOD OUTCOMES. YOU TALK TO PARENTS OF
AUTISTIC KIDS AND THEY ARE FREAKED OUT THAT THESE THINGS WILL NEVER HAPPEN WITH THEIR KIDS.
BUT THAT IS A SELF-FULFILLING PROPHECY. MOST OF THE TIME, IF YOU CAN RAISE AUTISTIC KIDS TO BE
THE MOST EFFECTIVE HEALTHY, HAPPY AUTISTIC KIDS THEY CAN BE, INSTEAD OF TRYING TO MAKE THEM
NON-AUTISTIC, THEY HAVE A MUCH BETTER CHANCE OF GOOD OUTCOMES. BECAUSE IT TAKES A WHOLE
LOT OF ENERGY TRYING TO BE SOMETHING YOU ARE NOT.
SO THAT IS MY HALF HOUR OF INTRODUCING THE PARADIGM SHIFT. I’M JUST GOING TO SEE IF ANY
QUESTIONS HAVE ARISEN YET.
>> I HAVE A QUESTION, I’M NOT A PARENT, BUT I KNOW QUITE A FEW PARENTS OF AUTISTIC
CHILDREN. AND THEY SEEM TO BE – IF I CAN GENERALIZE ABOUT THEM, THEY SEEM TO BE IN A LOT OF
ANGUISH ABOUT, FIRST OF ALL, THE FACT THAT THIS HAS HAPPENED TO THEM. SECOND, THAT THEIR
CHILDREN ARE VERY DIFFICULT. THAT THEY HAVE TANTRUMS IN INAPPROPRIATE PLACES. THIS IS DAVIS,
THIS IS AN AREA WITH A LOT OF, NOT TO OFFEND ANYBODY, BUT WITH A LOT OF ENTITLED PARENTS. AND
I JUST WONDER, WHAT – I MEAN, WHAT IS YOUR EXPERIENCE AS A PARENT AND YOUR EXPERIENCE AS AN
AUTISTIC PERSON?
NICK WALKER: I’M NOT A PARENT OF AN AUTISTIC CHILD. BUT I KNOW A LOT OF PARENTS.
>> WHAT IS CURRENTLY BEING OFFERED TO PARENTS OF AUTISTIC CHILDREN TO GET THEM TO
JUST CALM DOWN AND CHILL OUT RATHER THAN GO FOR TREATMENT AND TRY AND MAKE MY CHILD
PASS?
NICK WALKER: SADLY, VERY LITTLE IS BEING OFFERED AND THAT IS WHY PARENTS ARE IN
ANGUISH. THAT IS CULTURALLY CREATED. WHEN I SEE – I’M CYNICAL ABOUT OUR SOCIETY. WHEN I SEE
A LOT OF PEOPLE IN ANGUISH, DESPERATELY SPENDING A LOT OF MONEY TRYING TO MAKE A CHANGE
THAT THEY THINK THEY HAVE TO MAKE, I START FOLLOWING THE MONEY AND SAY WHO IS PROFITING OFF
THESE PEOPLE BEING IN ANGUISH? AND THERE IS A WHOLE INDUSTRY. A WHOLE AUTISM INDUSTRY THAT
PROFITS OFF OF PARENTS BEING TERRIFIED.
FOR INSTANCE, THERE IS A GIANT ORGANIZATION CALLED “AUTISM SPEAKS,” WHICH IS AN IRONIC
NAME BECAUSE THEY ARE VERY DEDICATED TO SILENCING AUTISTIC PEOPLE. IT IS AN ANTI-AUTISTIC
HATE GROUP. IT IS RUN ENTIRELY BY NON-AUTISTIC PEOPLE. AND IT IS A FRAUDULENT-- IT IS A HATE
GROUP AND A FRAUDULENT CHARITY. THEY PRESENT THEMSELVES AS AN AUTISM CHARITY, AND PEOPLE
ASSUME THAT THIS MEANS THAT THEY ACTUALLY DO SOMETHING USEFUL FOR AUTISTIC PEOPLE, BUT
THEY DON’T. ALMOST ALL OF THEIR BUDGET GOES TO PAYING THE EXECUTIVES, THE SIX FIGURE
SALARIES. AND A BIG CHUNK GOES INTO EUGENIC RESEARCH, A CURE FOR AUTISM SO THEY CAN ABORT
PRENATAL AUTISTIC FETUSES.
SO THEY ARE THIS GIANT, GIANT, FRAUD. AND THEIR ENTIRE BUSINESS MODEL IS TO KEEP PARENTS
TERRIFIED. THE ENTIRE BUSINESS MODEL. AND THE ENTIRE BUSINESS MODEL IS ABOUT PRESENTING
AUTISM AS A DEVASTATING TRAGEDY THAT HAPPENS TO FAMILIES. THEY PUT OUT THESE FILMS THAT
SHOW THE SCREAMING KIDS AND FAMILIES TALKING ABOUT HOW IT IS THE WORST THING THAT EVER
HAPPENED AND IT DESTROYED THE FAMILY AND THEY WISH THE KID HAS CANCER INSTEAD OF AUTISM. IT
IS TERRIBLE MESSAGES THAT THEY PUT OUT, TO BRING IN MONEY.
THIS IS SLICK ADVERTISING SLEIGHT OF HAND THAT GOES ON. BECAUSE THEY PRESENT THIS
AUTISM AS A TERRIBLE DEVASTATING TRAGEDY THAT RUINS THE FAMILIES’ MODEL, AND PEOPLE MAKE
THE ASSUMPTION THAT BECAUSE THEY ARE SAYING THIS, THAT THEY ARE SAYING, “WE’RE GOING TO DO
SOMETHING ABOUT IT,” BUT THEY DON’T. THEY ARE SAYING, “AUTISM IS A TERRIBLE TRAGEDY,
THEREFORE, GIVE US MONEY BECAUSE WE ARE AUTISM SPEAKS AND WE ARE TELLING YOU THIS.” THERE
IS NOT ACTUALLY ANYTHING THAT THEY ARE DOING THAT IS MAKING IT NOT A TRAGEDY. THEY ARE, IN
FACT, CREATING THE TRAGEDY THROUGH THEIR PR.
IF YOU TRACK IT, EVERY TIME AUTISM SPEAKS PUTS OUT A NEW PUBLIC SERVICE VIDEO, THERE IS A
SPIKE IN THE NUMBER OF PARENTS WHO MURDER THEIR AUTISTIC CHILDREN. BECAUSE THEY ARE
SPREADING A MESSAGE OF JUST HOPELESSNESS. THEY ARE FUELING THE ANGUISH FOR PROFIT. OF
COURSE, ALL THE PROFESSIONALS, THE PEOPLE WHO DO ABA, IT IS GREAT BUSINESS FOR THEM. IT IS
GREAT BUSINESS FOR ANYONE IN THE BUSINESS OF SELLING AUTISM TREATMENT OR A QUACK CURE. IT
IS A GREAT BUSINESS FOR PEOPLE TO BE TERRIFIED OF AUTISM. THEY THINK OF IT AS A DEVASTATING
TRAGEDY.
THE ANGUISH IS ARTIFICIALLY CREATED. WHICH DOES NOT MEAN IT IS EASY TO BE THE PARENT OF
AN AUTISTIC CHILD. IT IS NOT EASY IT BE THE PARENTS OF ANY CHILD, AND PARTICULARLY DIFFICULT
WITH AN AUTISTIC CHILD, LARGELY BECAUSE OF THE MODEL. AND THERE IS NO HEALTHY SUPPORT. IF
YOU HAVE A NON-AUTISTIC CHILD, I HAVE A NON-AUTISTIC CHILD AND I KNOW THAT THERE IS SOMETHING
GOING ON WITH HER AND I DON’T KNOW WHAT IT IS. SHE SEEMS TO BE HAVING SOME DISTRESS AND I CAN
TAKE HER TO THE DOCTOR AND CHANCES ARE THEY WILL FIND WHAT IT IS AND IT WILL BE FIXABLE. OR I
SEND HER TO SCHOOL AND THEY TEACH HER READING AND MATH AND SCHOOLS ARE SET UP FOR KIDS
WHO LEARN LIKE SHE DOES. WHEN YOU HAVE A CHILD WHO HAS A NEUROLOGICAL MINORITY AND
DIFFERS A WHOLE LOT IN COGNITIVE NEEDS FROM MOST KIDS, SOCIETY IS NOT WELL SET UP.
SAME THING IF YOU HAVE A CHILD WHO IS A WHEELCHAIR USER. YOU RUN INTO THAT SAME
DIFFICULTY, WOW, THERE ARE ALL THESE PLACES THAT TAKE CHILDREN THAT ARE NOT WHEELCHAIR
ACCESSIBLE. AND IT IS DIFFICULT. AND THERE IS NO INSTRUCTION MANUALS. THERE ARE INSTRUCTION
MANUALS FOR NON-AUTISTIC CHILDREN IN A WAY BECAUSE SO MANY PEOPLE WRITE BOOKS ABOUT
PARENTING AND TEACH CLASSES ABOUT PARENTING. THERE IS NOT THAT MUCH STUFF ABOUT AUTISTIC
CHILDREN THAT IS NOT ORIENTED TOWARD SELLING YOU AN EXPENSIVE CURE AND SCARING THE HECK
OUT OF YOU IN ORDER TO SELL IT TO YOU.
SO THAT DOES MAKE IT CHALLENGING. AND IT IS CHALLENGING BECAUSE IT IS HARDER TO
UNDERSTAND A CHILD WHO IS DIFFERENT FROM YOU. HARDER TO UNDERSTAND A CHILD WHOSE MIND IS
DIFFERENT FROM OUR OWN AND IT IS HARD JUST TO ESTABLISH COMMUNICATION. IF YOU ARE NONAUTISTIC AND YOUR CHILD IS NON-AUTISTIC, YOU BASICALLY HAVE THE SAME KIND OF BRAIN. WELL,
THAT’S NOT SO BAD. THEY START PICKING UP YOUR LANGUAGE AND READING YOUR FACIAL
EXPRESSIONS AND YOU GET A RHYTHM GOING AND HOW IS HOW THINGS DEVELOP. BUT WITH AUTISTIC
CHILDREN, THERE IS A WHOLE OTHER SET OF COGNITIVE NEEDS BUILT IN. YOU WANT TO CONNECT AND
MAKE EYE CONTACT AND HAVE THEM REPEAT WHAT YOU ARE SAYING AND BABBLE BACK TO YOU AND
GET THAT RHYTHM GOING THAT MOST PARENTS GET WITH THE KIDS, BUT AUTISTIC PARENTS HAVE
DIFFERENT NEEDS. THEY CAN’T MAKE EYE CONTACT BECAUSE THERE IS TOO MUCH INFORMATION
COMING IN. MAYBE THEY HAVE A DIFFERENT RATE OF LEARNING LANGUAGE. AND MAYBE IT DOES NOT
HAPPEN AT FIRST WITH THE BACK AND FORTH. AND THE WAY OF PLAYING IS TOTALLY DIFFERENT FROM
YOURS AND YOU CAN’T MAKE SENSE OF IT.
IT IS A HARDER EXPERIENCE TO RELATE TO, TOO. INCLUDING, I DON’T KNOW WHAT IS GOING TO
FREAK MY CHILD OUT. IF IT IS A NON-AUTISTIC CHILD, YOU LEARN PRETTY FAST WHAT IS GOING TO FREAK
THEM OUT. WITH AN AUTISTIC CHILD, WELL, IT CAN BE HARDER BECAUSE THEY MIGHT BE SENSITIVE TO
SOMETHING THAT YOU MIGHT NOT BE BOTHERED BY AT ALL, IF YOU ARE NON-AUTISTIC, TOO. I KNOW.
THIS WHOLE SERIES OF TALKS HERE IS CENTERED AROUND TEMPLE GRANDIN’S BOOK. SHE KNOWS
WHAT FREAKS OUT COWS BECAUSE SHE GETS FREAKED OUT BY THE SAME THINGS THAT FREAK OUT
COWS. IT IS LIKE THAT. I KNOW WHAT IS GOING TO FREAK OUT AN AUTISTIC PERSON, USUALLY. BUT IF
YOU ARE NOT AUTISTIC, HOW DO YOU KNOW? YOU KNOW IT FREAKS YOU OUT. IT TOOK ME A LONG TIME
TO FIGURE OUT WHAT FREAKED OUT NON-AUTISTIC PEOPLE. I KEPT FREAKING THEM OUT BY MISTAKE. IS
LIKE, “OH, THAT BOTHERS YOU? WEIRD.”
SO THERE IS NOT A LOT. THERE IS NOT A LOT RIGHT NOW. IT NEEDS TO BE CREATED. THERE IS A
NEED, WE’RE AT A JUNCTURE WHERE WE NEED TO START CREATING THINGS FOR AUTISTIC ADULTS, KIDS
AND NON-AUTISTIC PARENTS THAT ARE NOT BASED ON THE PATHOLOGY PARADIGM THAT DON’T FREAK
PEOPLE OUT TOO MUCH. THERE IS A FACEBOOK COMMUNITY CALLED “PARENTING AUTISTIC CHILDREN
WITH LOVE AND ACCEPTANCE.” AND THAT IS ALL ABOUT THAT. PEOPLE – THERE ARE LIKE 24,000
MEMBERS AND PEOPLE POST QUESTIONS ABOUT THEIR AUTISTIC KIDS. PARENTS POST AND AUTISTIC
ADULTS POST GIVING ADVICE. WITH ON LINE COMMUNITIES, PEOPLE CAN BE HARSH AND BLUNT WITH
EACH OTHER, BUT IT IS A PLACE WHERE PEOPLE CAN GO AND GET GOOD COMMON SENSE ADVICE. WE
NEED MORE OF THAT STUFF.
I’M INVOLVED IN A FEW – I PUT MY BLOG OUT THERE. NEUROCOSMOPOLITANISM.COM AND I COME
AND SPEAK AT EVENTS LIKE THIS AND GIVE PEOPLE IDEAS. I WILL EVENTUALLY PUT BOOKS OUT THAT
ARE LESS PATHOLOGY ORIENTED. I DO TRAININGS WITH PSYCHOTHERAPISTS. I TEACH AN
UNDERGRADUATE PROGRAM. THEY WANT TO MAKE SURE THERE ARE PROFESSIONALS IN THE NEXT
GENERATIONS THAT PARENTS CAN GO TO. BUT RIGHT NOW, THEY ARE STILL IN SCHOOL. AND I CONSULT
WITH PROFESSIONALS SOMETIMES. BUT IT IS STILL IN THE BEGINNINGS.
THERE IS – PEOPLE ARE SO INGRAINED IN THE PATHOLOGY PARADIGM THAT THERE IS A FALSE
DICHOTOMY THAT THEY HAVE GOING ON. WHICH IS EITHER YOU DO ALL THIS STUFF, THESE SPECIAL
DIETS AND ABA AND YOU HAVE TO DO ALL OF THIS STUFF CONSTANTLY. IT IS OVERWHELMING. NO
PARENT CAN DO IT. IF YOU LOOK AT ALL THE STUFF THAT PROFESSIONALS RECOMMEND THAT YOU DO
FOR KIDS, NOT MANY PEOPLE CAN AFFORD THAT. AND NO HUMAN BEING HAS THE TIME TO DO THAT.
BUT, THIS IS PRESENTED AS IF THE ALTERNATIVE IS DO NOTHING AT ALL FOR YOUR CHILD. WHICH IS
RIDICULOUS. WE DON’T PATHOLOGIZE NON-AUTISTIC CHILDREN. THE SAME THING FOR AUTISTIC
CHILDREN. THAT NEEDS TO BE CREATED.
BUT YEAH, FOR PARENTS, IT HELPS FOR PARENTS TO HAVE CONTACT WITH ADULT AUTISTICS WHO
ARE DOING OKAY. BECAUSE – AND WE’RE OUT THERE. YOU GO TO MY BLOG, AND THERE IS A LIST OF
LINKS TO OTHER BLOGS THAT ARE MOSTLY BY AUTISTIC PEOPLE OR PARENTS OF AUTISTIC PEOPLE.
THERE ARE PEOPLE OUT THERE. LIKE HEY, HERE I AM, THIS IS WHAT I’M STRUGGLING WITH. THIS IS WHAT
IS DRIVING ME CRAZY RIGHT NOW. THIS IS WHERE I’M AT IN MY LIFE. THIS IS WHAT IS DRIVING ME CRAZY,
THIS IS WHAT DIDN’T WORK FOR ME AS A KID. THERE IS A BLOG OUT THERE CALLED, “WE ARE LIKE OUR
CHILDREN” BY ADULTS OUT THERE WITH STRATEGIES. BUT IT IS HARD. IT IS HARD TO FIGURE OUT. IT IS
HARD.
THERE’S A EMPATHY GAP. ONE OF THE PATHOLOGY PARADIGM MODELS OF AUTISM, THE FALSE
STEREOTYPES OF AUTISM IS THIS THING THAT AUTISTIC PEOPLE LACK EMPATHY, WHICH IS NOT TRUE IN
MY EXPERIENCE. ESPECIALLY FOR PEOPLE WHO A LOT OF THEM ARE TRAUMATIZED BECAUSE THEY
WERE TREATED TERRIBLY.
I THINK THERE IS AN EMPATHY GAP BETWEEN AUTISTIC PEOPLE AND NON-AUTISTIC PEOPLE JUST
BECAUSE IT IS HARDER TO UNDERSTAND SOMEONE WHOSE BRAIN IS DIFFERENT FROM YOURS. IF YOU
ARE NOT AUTISTIC, MOST OF THE PEOPLE YOU MEET ARE NOT AUTISTIC. AND YOU KIND OF TAKE FOR
GRANTED, IF YOU STAY WITHIN YOUR OWN CULTURE OR COUNTRY, MOST PEOPLE THAT YOU MEET, THEY
MAKE A CERTAIN GESTURE AND SHOW A CERTAIN SIGN AND USE A CERTAIN BODY LANGUAGE AND YOU
KNOW WHAT IT MEANS WHEN THEY DO THAT.
THERE IS BASIC EMPATHY OF LIKE, OH, SURE, I CAN RELATE THIS TO MY OWN EXPERIENCE.
NOW, IF YOU TRAVEL OUTSIDE OF YOUR OWN CULTURE TO A VASTLY DIFFERENT CULTURE AND YOU
DISCOVER THAT SOME OF YOUR ASSUMPTIONS ARE, WELL, YOU KNOW, IT TURNS OUT THIS IS NOT
UNIVERSAL. THAT OH, WOW, THESE PEOPLE MEAN SOMETHING TOTALLY DIFFERENT WITH THEIR BODY
LANGUAGE. THE PEOPLE IN THIS COUNTRY DO NOT MAKE EYE CONTACT AS MUCH AND THEY DON’T SEEM
TO LIKE IT WHEN I TRY TO GET EYE CONTACT. AND THE PEOPLE IN THIS CULTURE SHAKE THEIR HEADS
DIFFERENTLY FOR YES AND NO. IN THIS CULTURE, YOU DON’T TOUCH PEOPLE WITH YOUR LEFT HAND,
THAT IS REALLY WEIRD.
THERE ARE ALL SORTS OF THINGS WE TAKE FOR GRANTED THAT ARE NATURAL AND TURN OUT TO
BE DIFFERENT IN DIFFERENT CULTURES. WE GO TO THE PARADIGMS AND SEE THAT THINGS WORK JUST
LIKE CULTURAL DIVERSITY. IT IS JUST LIKE DEALING WITH SOMEONE FROM A DIFFERENT CULTURE, BUT IN
THIS CASE, THE CULTURE EMERGES FROM THE NEUROLOGY. WHICH MEANS THAT MAYBE YOUR KID IS
BORN BEING FROM A DIFFERENT CULTURE FROM YOU. WHICH IS A STRANGE WAY TO LOOK AT IT, BUT IT
KIND OF APPLIES. THEIR BODY LANGUAGE IS GOING TO BE DIFFERENT AND THEY ARE NOT GOING TO PICK
YOURS UP BECAUSE THEY HAVE A DIFFERENT ONE ALREADY WIRED INTO THEM.
THAT BECOMES DIFFICULT. THAT CREATES AN EMPATHY GAP. AND AGAIN, THIS BUSINESS ABOUT
YOU KNOW, THIS IS JUST A POWER DIFFERENTIAL THING. THIS IS A SOCIAL POWER DIFFERENCE THING
WHEN AUTISTIC PEOPLE GET FRAMED AS LACKING EMPATHY. IF AN AUTISTIC PERSON HAS TROUBLE
UNDERSTANDING NON-AUTISTIC PEOPLE, AN AUTISTIC PERSON CANNOT UNDERSTAND NON-AUTISTIC
PEOPLE, THAT IS BECAUSE AUTISM IS A COMMUNICATION DIFFICULTY. IT IS A LACK OF EMPATHY AND
COMMUNICATION DISORDER. BUT IF A NON-AUTISTIC PERSON CANNOT UNDERSTAND, THAT IS ALSO
FRAMED. IT IS A DOUBLE STANDARD THERE.
AUTISTIC PEOPLE OR NON-AUTISTIC PEOPLE ARE JUST LIKE PEOPLE FROM TWO DIFFERENT
CULTURES. NEITHER ONE IS DEFICIENT IN EMPATHY OR DAMAGED, THEY HAVE TO WORK HARDER
BECAUSE THE BRAINS WORK DIFFERENTLY AND THEY HAVE TO WORK HARDER TO UNDERSTAND EACH
OTHER THAN TWO PEOPLE WHO ARE NEUROLOGICALLY SIMILAR.
I HOPE THAT ANSWERED YOUR QUESTIONS. THIS IS WHY I ALLOW A LOT OF TIME FOR QUESTIONS
AND ANSWERS BECAUSE I JUST RAMBLE ON AND KEEP ON GOING. SO THANKS FOR THE INSPIRING
QUESTION. I KNOW WHAT I DO WANT TO SAY THERE ABOUT AUTISTIC PEOPLE. IT WAS PART OF YOUR
QUESTION THAT WAS REALLY GOOD. LIKE AUTISTIC PEOPLE THROWING TANTRUMS IN INAPPROPRIATE
PLACES. MAYBE IT WAS AN INAPPROPRIATE PLACE TO BRING THAT PARTICULAR AUTISTIC KID AND THE
PROBLEM IS, WELL YOU BROUGHT THE KID THERE. AGAIN, AUTISTIC PEOPLE HAVE A DRASTICALLY
DIFFERENT SENSORY EXPERIENCE FROM AUTISTIC PEOPLE.
HERE’S THE STORY, I KNOW THIS FAMILY AND THEY HAVE A LITTLE AUTISTIC KID. AND THEY ARE
LIKE, “OUR KID JUST SUDDENLY STARTS CRYING AND THROWS THIS TANTRUM AND PUTS HIS HANDS OVER
HIS EARS AND STARTS CRYING FOR NO REASON AT ALL. WHAT DO WE DO?” ONE DAY I VISIT THEM, WE’RE
HANGING OUT AND SUDDENLY, THERE IS THE MOST GOD AWFUL NOISE. IT IS HORRIBLE. AND THE FIRST
THING I WANT TO DO IS PUT MY HANDS OVER MY EARS TO MAKE IT GO AWAY AND START BANGING MY
HEAD ON THE GROUND UNTIL IT STOPS, WHICH I DON’T DO BECAUSE I SPENT A LOT OF YEARS DOING
MINDFUL PRACTICES AND CENTERED PRACTICES AND START TO BREATHE. THAT IS REALLY
UNPLEASANT, THAT AWFUL NOISE AND THE KID IS FREAKING OUT, JUST LIKE I WOULD IF I HAD NOT HAD A
BUNCH OF PRACTICE IN CALMING MYSELF.
TURNS OUT THIS NOISE IS THE REFRIGERATOR THAT IT MAKES BECAUSE IT IS DYING AND IT STARTS
MAKING THIS NOISE RANDOMLY THROUGHOUT THE DAY, ESPECIALLY WHEN THE WEATHER IS HOT. TURNS
OUT THE PARENTS BARELY NOTICE THIS SOUND. TO THEM IT IS THIS LITTLE BACKGROUND HUM. NOW I
HEAR THAT ONE OF THE FLUORESCENT LIGHTS IN THE ROOM IS BUZZING A LITTLE LOUDER THAN THE
OTHERS. MOST OF YOU MAY NOT NOTICE IT, BUT I DO.
I DON’T THINK ANYBODY THROWS A TANTRUM FOR NO REASON. SO THEN IT IS ABOUT FIGURING OUT
THE REASONS WHEN YOU’VE GOT SOMEONE WHO IS FREAKED OUT BY A VERY DIFFERENT SET OF THINGS
THAN YOU ARE. AND THE SOLUTION IS, YOU JUST KIND OF HAVE TO FIGURE IT OUT AND IT IS HARD. YOU
HAVE TO GIVE THE KID COMMUNICATION RESOURCES. AND THIS IS THE SAME THING THAT HAPPENS
WHEN YOU ARE RAISING A NON-AUTISTIC KID. ONE OF THE BIGGEST RELIEFS TO ME AS A PARENTS IS
WHEN MY KID FINALLY LEARNED TO NAME BODY PARTS. YOU KNOW YOU PLAY THE GAME WITH KIDS
WHERE YOU GET THEM TO LEARN HEAD, SHOULDERS AND KNEES. AS A PARENT, IT IS AN ENORMOUS
RELIEF WHEN THE KID CAN TELL YOU WHAT HURTS WHEN SOMETHING IS WRONG. IT IS HARROWING IF
YOU DON’T KNOW WHEN THE KID IS CRYING, IF IT IS A STOMACH ACHE, EAR INFECTION OR WHAT. IT IS
GREAT WHEN THE KID CAN FINALLY SAY, EAR HURT, TUMMY HURT. TOP PRIORITIES OF GETTING THEM TO
COMMUNICATE WHEN WORKING WITH AUTISTIC KIDS. THEN YOU WILL FIND OUT WHAT IT IS THAT IS
BOTHERING THEM. AND THEN YOU CAN ASK THEM AND THAT MAKES SENSE.
LET’S TAKE ANOTHER QUESTION.
>> SO, I LIKE THE IDEA OF MOVING AWAY FROM THE PATHOLOGY PARADIGM. HAVE YOU EVER
THOUGHT ABOUT WHETHER THERE MIGHT BE CONSEQUENCES FOR SOME CHILDREN WHEN DOING THAT?
IF A CHILD HAS REALLY SPECIFIC EDUCATIONAL NEEDS AND THEY ARE NOT CATEGORIZED AS HAVING
SOMETHING LIKE – THEY ARE JUST DIFFERENT. AND THEN THEY DON’T RECEIVE THE ACCOMMODATIONS
THAT THEY NEED, LIKE EDUCATION. DO YOU SEE WHAT I’M SAYING?
NICK WALKER: I DO, AND THE ANSWER TO THIS IS THAT NEURO DIVERSITY ACTIVISTS ARE NOT
AGAINST THE LABEL OF AUTISM. WE PROUDLY CALL OURSELVES AUTISTIC PEOPLE. WE’RE JUST
AGAINST SAYING THAT IT IS A MENTAL DISORDER, DEFECT. IT IS A FORM OF NEUROLOGICAL WIRING THAT
COMES WITH A VERY SPECIFIC SET OF NEEDS THAT IS DIFFERENT FROM THE NEEDS OF THE MAJORITY. SO
I’M DEFINITELY IN FAVOR OF RECOGNIZING KIDS AS AUTISTIC. IN FACT, I THINK IT WOULD BE EASIER TO
DO IF WE DROPPED THE PATHOLOGY PARADIGM. WHAT THE PATHOLOGY PARADIGM DOES IS CREATE
THIS FEAR AROUND AUTISM. MY WIFE OVER THERE AND I RUN AN AIKIDO DOJO TOGETHER. THIS IS A
WEIRD QUALIFICATION THAT I HAVE. BUT I’M THE MOST ADVANCED AUTISTIC MARTIAL ARTIST AND THAT
IS A GREAT THING TO BE, BUT THERE IS NO PRIZE FOR THAT, BY THE WAY.
ANYWAY, I TEACH THE ADULTS AND MY WIFE TEACHES THE KIDS PROGRAM. AND OF COURSE SHE
LIVES WITH ME AND SHE KNOWS HOW TO RECOGNIZE AUTISTIC PEOPLE PRETTY EASILY. AND WE GET A
FAIR NUMBER OF AUTISTIC KIDS AT THE DOJO. AND I HAVE A REPUTATION FOR YOU KNOW, BECAUSE I
WORK IN BOTH FIELDS. I TEACH AIKIDO AND IF SOMEONE GOOGLES MY NAME THEY WILL SEE AUTISTIC
AND NEURO DIVERSITY. WE GET A LOT OF AUTISTIC KIDS AND A LOT OF PARENTS WHO ARE TERRIFIED OF
ACKNOWLEDGING THEIR KIDS ARE AUTISTIC. TERRIFIED OF IT. THERE ARE ALL THESE EUPHEMISMS. MY
KID HAS SENSORY ISSUES, HE IS NOT AUTISTIC, BUT HE HAS SENSORY ISSUES. HE DOESN’T SPEAK. IT IS
LIKE PARENTS WILL LIST EVERY COMMON TRAIT ASSOCIATED WITH AUTISM, BUT SAY THEY ARE NOT
AUTISTIC. IT IS JUST SENSORY ISSUES. THEY ARE TERRIFIED OF HAVING THAT LABEL PUT ON THEIR KID.
SO WE HAVE A BUNCH OF AUTISTIC STUDENTS AND WE ARE NOT ALLOWED TO MENTION TO THE PARENTS
THAT THEY ARE AUTISTIC AND WE TEACH THEM AS IF THEY ARE AUTISTIC AND IT WORKS GREAT FOR
THEM.
I THINK IT WOULD BE EASIER IF THE PATHOLOGY WERE REMOVED, THE STIGMA WOULD BE
REMOVED. AND IT WOULD BE MUCH EASIER FOR PARENTS TO SAY, “YOU KNOW, I THINK MY KID IS
AUTISTIC.” I THINK FEWER KIDS WOULD SLIP THROUGH THE CRACKS AS A RESULT. THERE WOULD NOT
BE THAT FEAR AROUND IT.
IN TERMS OF MEETING EDUCATIONAL NEEDS, DEFINITELY, THERE IS AN AUTHOR NAMED THOMAS
ARMSTRONG WHO IS AN EDUCATION SCHOLAR AND WORKS WITH MULTIPLE INTELLIGENCES. HE HAS A
GOOD SHORT BOOK CALLED “NEURO DIVERSITY IN THE CLASSROOM” WHERE HE TALKS ABOUT
INTEGRATING AND USING STRATEGIES THAT HAVE BEEN USED IN THE PAST FOR RACIAL INTEGRATION OF
CLASSROOMS, FOR INSTANCE, TO INTEGRATE NEURO DIVERSITY INTO THE CLASSROOM AND INTEGRATE
DIFFERENT LEARNING NEEDS AND LEARNING STYLES INTO A CLASSROOM AND MAKE THAT A STRENGTH.
BECAUSE DIVERSITY IS A STRENGTH AND WE LEARN FROM BEING EXPOSED TO DIVERSITY. YOU GET A
BUNCH OF KIDS FROM DIFFERENT CULTURES ECONOMIC BACKGROUNDS IN THE CLASSROOM TOGETHER
AND IF THE TEACHER CAN WORK WITH THAT INSTEAD OF GLOSSING OVER, IT IS A GREAT LEARNING
OPPORTUNITY FOR KIDS. SAME WITH NEURO TYPES, THERE ARE DIFFERENT WAYS OF COMMUNICATING
AND MOVING. WE LEARN SO MUCH FROM THAT. IF YOU REMOVE THE PATHOLOGY AND GET RID OF THE
WHOLE SEGREGATED SPECIAL EDUCATION THING, JUST START ACCEPTING HOW ARE WE GOING TO WORK
WITH THIS IN THE CLASSROOM? HOW DO WE STRUCTURE THE CLASSROOMS? ARMSTRONG CAUSED THIS
UNIVERSAL DESIGN FOR LEARNING. UNIVERSAL DESIGN COMES OUT OF DISABILITY STUDIES AND
UNIVERSAL DESIGN YOU SAY, “WELL, IS THERE A WAY TO DESIGN THINGS TO ACCOMMODATE DISABILITY
THAT MAKES THINGS BETTER FOR EVERYONE?”
CURB CUTS, WHEN YOU COME TO THE CURB BY A SIDEWALK THAT SLOPES DOWN GENTLY INSTEAD
OF BEING A SUDDEN BUMP IN THE CURB? THAT WAS DEVELOPED FOR WHEELCHAIRS; TURNS OUT THAT IS
GREAT IF YOU ARE PUSHING A STOPPING CART OR A STROLLER FULL OF KIDS AND EVERYBODY BENEFITS
FROM CURB CUTS.
KIDS GO CRAZY SITTING IN THE CLASSROOM AT DESKS ALL DAY NOT BEING ABLE TO MOVE AROUND;
THAT’S TERRIBLE. BUT IF YOU GOT THE ADHD AND DYSLEXIC KIDS AND KINETIC LEARNERS IN THE
CLASSROOM, YOU HAVE TO CHANGE THINGS. THERE IS ANOTHER FORM OF NEURO DIVERSITY, WE ARE
JUST PATHOLOGIZING KIDS WHO ARE KINETIC LEARNERS. I WOULD CHANGE THE NAME TO KINETIC
LEARNING STYLE. YOU KNOW TEACHERS ARE REALLY ANNOYED BY KINETIC LEARNERS BECAUSE ADHD
IS LIKE IT HAS DEFICIT AND DISORDER IN IT AND THEY MUST BE REALLY ANNOYED. IT IS CONTEXT. IT IS
ONLY A DISORDER IF YOU PUT THEM IN A CLASSROOM AND MAKE THEM SIT STILL, YOU KNOW. SO YOU
ARE GOING TO HAVE TO RESTRUCTURE THE CLASSROOM SO THERE IS MORE ACTIVITY. AND THEN IT IS
LESS OF A PROBLEM FOR THE AUTISTICS, TOO. IF YOU STRUCTURE THE THINGS SO THAT THE KINETIC
LEARNERS CAN MOVE AROUND FREELY AND SUDDENLY THERE IS MORE ROOM FOR THE AUTISTIC KIDS TO
MOVE THEIR HANDS AROUND AND ROCK BACK AND FORTH.
THE NEURO DIVERSITY PARADIGM WOULD FACILITATE BETTER EDUCATIONAL SERVICES FOR KIDS.
YES. OTHER QUESTIONS?
ALLAN HOLLANDER: I’M VERY KIND OF STRUCK BY SORT OF A GENERATIONAL SHIFT HERE AND I
GUESS WHAT I’M KIND OF WONDERING ABOUT IS, HOW – IT SEEMS THAT WE AS A SOCIETY ARE MUCH
MORE FOCUSED ON OUR KIDS BEING SUCCESSFUL. ALL KIDS WHETHER AUTISTIC OR NON-AUTISTIC. THIS
IS REALLY FORCING THE SOCIETY INTO VERY STRUCTURED LEARNING REGIMES. AND I SOMEHOW
WONDER IF THAT IS REALLY PUTTING THE AUTISTIC KIDS AS A REAL DISADVANTAGE BECAUSE OF THAT
SHIFT.
NICK WALKER: TOTALLY. THERE IS A GREAT BOOK CALLED “STRANGE MINDS” WHICH IS ABOUT –
THE AUTHOR, HE IS A SOCIOLOGIST. IT IS A SOCIOLOGICAL PERSPECTIVE ON THE DIAGNOSIS OF AUTISM.
IT HAS A LOT OF PATHOLOGY PARADIGM STUFF, BUT IT IS A GREAT RESOURCE JUST FOR
UNDERSTANDING THE SPREAD OF THE AUTISM DIAGNOSIS. BASICALLY WHAT HE IS WRITING ABOUT IS
HOW AND WHY DIAGNOSTIC RATES HAVE INCREASED. FOR PEOPLE WHO ARE INVESTED IN SPREADING
ALARM ABOUT AUTISM, IT IS VERY POPULAR TO CLAIM THAT THE OCCURRENCE OF AUTISM, THE
INCIDENCE OF AUTISM WITHIN THE POPULATION IS INCREASING.
THERE IS ACTUALLY NO EVIDENCE FOR THAT. ALL THAT WE KNOW IS THE DIAGNOSIS OF AUTISM IS
INCREASING, RECOGNITION OF AUTISM IS INCREASING. THERE HAVE BEEN INTERESTING STUDIES DONE IN
THE U.K. AND SOUTH KOREA, CROSS-GENERATIONALLY, THEY OBSERVE THE AUTISTIC TRAITS. WHEN
THEY DO THAT, THEY DISCOVER THAT IT STAYS CONSTANT THROUGHOUT GENERATIONS AND IN FACT,
THERE HAS NOT BEEN AN INCREASE IN AUTISM. IT IS JUST IN THE GENE POOL AND A CERTAIN
PERCENTAGE OF THE POPULATION IS AUTISTIC. WHAT PERCENTAGE DEPENDS ON JUST HOW – WHERE DO
YOU DRAW THE LINE IN TERMS OF FINDING AUTISTIC AND WHERE DON’T YOU. BUT IT IS NOT INCREASING;
WE ARE JUST RECOGNIZING IT MORE.
PART OF THAT IS IT IS GETTING HARDER TO HIDE. THE WORLD IS LESS FRIENDLY TO AUTISTICS. IT
IS FASTER AND LOUDER NOW. IT IS GETTING FASTER AND LOUDER ALL THE TIME. THESE KIDS WHO SEEM
TO THROW TANTRUMS FOR NO REASON AT ALL, THEY ARE FREAKING OUT. LIKE IN THE SUPERMARKETS
WHERE THERE IS ALL THIS FLUORESCENT LIGHT AND CHAOS AND WEIRD BUZZING SOUNDS AND THEY
HAVE NO PLACE TO GO TO BE QUIET. THEY DIDN’T HAVE THAT 100 YEARS AGO. CARS, YOU KNOW, WE
HAVE CITIES THAT ARE DESIGNED MORE FOR CARS THAN FOR PEOPLE NOW. HOW MANY KIDS GET TO
JUST WANDER OFF IN THE WOODS TO BE ALONE IN THE WOODS NOW? I WAS LUCKY, I GOT TO WHEN I
WAS A KID, BUT THAT IS INCREASINGLY RARE. THIS IS ONE REASON AUTISM DIAGNOSIS IS INCREASING,
NOT JUST THAT THERE IS INDUSTRY AROUND IT. IT IS MORE OF A PROBLEM.
THERE IS A SOCIAL MODEL DISABILITY, THERE IS THE DISABILITY THEORY THAT WE HAVE THE
MEDICAL MODEL OF DISABILITY. MOST PEOPLE HEAR DISABILITY AND THEY THINK OF DISABILITY. THIS
PERSON HAS A DISABILITY. SOCIAL MODEL DISABILITY IS NOT THIS PERSON HAS A DISABILITY, BUT THIS
PERSON IS DISABLED BY SOCIETY, BY THE SOCIETAL ENVIRONMENT. DISABILITY OCCURS WHEN A
PERSON’S NEEDS ARE NOT ACCOMMODATED BY THEIR ENVIRONMENT.
A PERSON WHO IS DEAF IS MUCH MORE DISABLED IN A SOCIETY THAT DOESN’T HAVE – DOESN’T
HAVE SIGN LANGUAGE OR WHERE CAPTIONING IS VERY RARE. WHERE EVERYTHING IS SET UP FOR
HEARING PEOPLE. IF YOU SET THINGS UP, WE HAVE CAPTIONING HERE, RIGHT. CAPTIONING HERE, WE
HAVE – THERE IS ACCOMMODATIONS NOW. THE MORE ACCOMMODATED THEY ARE, THE LESS DISABLED
THEY ARE. DISABILITY IS NOT SOMETHING THAT IS INTRINSIC TO A PERSON, NOT THAT THE PERSON IS
DEFECTIVE, BUT IT IS IN THE INTERACTION BETWEEN PERSON AND ENVIRONMENT.
IN THAT SENSE, AUTISTIC PEOPLE ARE INCREASINGLY DISABLED. I DON’T SAY AUTISM IS A
DISABILITY, BUT I DO SAY AUTISTIC PEOPLE ARE DISABLED. AND I THINK THERE HAVE BEEN TIMES IN
HISTORY WHEN AUTISTIC PEOPLE WERE NOT DISABLED. I THINK IF YOU HAVE A LOW TECH ENVIRONMENT
WITH A SLOW PACE OF LIFE AND LEARNING HAPPENS THROUGH APPRENTICESHIPS AND STUFF LIKE THAT,
AUTISTIC PEOPLE GET PUT INTO SITUATIONS WHERE THEY THRIVE NATURALLY.
THOMAS ARMSTRONG TELLS A STORY ABOUT GOING – I THINK IT WAS SOMEONE HE KNEW – WENT
TO A VILLAGE IN THE CONGO AND FOUND A GUY THERE WHO WAS A MASTER WEAVER. THE SKILL OF
WEAVING IN THAT PART OF THE VILLAGE WAS PART OF THE ECONOMY, THE RUGS THAT HE WOVE. HE
WAS A HIGHLY RESPECTED PART OF THE COMMUNITY AND CLEARLY AUTISTIC TO THE EYE OF SOMEONE
FROM THE U.S. HE WAS VERY CLEARLY AUTISTIC. BUT HE WAS NOT DISABLED THERE AND THEY
RECOGNIZED EARLY ON IN HIS LIFE THAT HE LOVED PATTERNS AND HE JUST WANTED TO SIT AND PLAY
WITH PATTERNS ALL DAY AND THEY TRAINED HIM TO BE A WEAVER AND HE HAD A GREAT LIFE.
BUT THIS INSISTENCE THAT EVERYONE FOLLOW THE SAME PATH AND EVERYBODY TAKES THE SAME
STANDARDIZED TESTS AND SCHOOLED THE SAME WAY AND GETS JOBS IN THE SAME CORPORATE
ENVIRONMENT AND PASSES THE JOB INTERVIEW FROM THE GUY WHO DEMANDS EYE CONTACT, THEN
AUTISTIC PEOPLE ARE VERY DISABLED IN THAT ENVIRONMENT. THE PARADIGM INVOLVES A SHIFT, A
CHANGE IN THE ENVIRONMENT. AND HOW DO WE CHANGE THE ENVIRONMENT? WHEN WE CHANGE THE
ENVIRONMENT TO BE MORE AUTISTIC FRIENDLY, WE GET AN ENVIRONMENT THAT IS MORE HUMAN
FRIENDLY. I WILL TAKE ONE MORE OR TWO QUESTIONS IF IT IS SHORT.
>> I WAS A LITTLE SURPRISED YOUR USE OF THE WORD, ACCOMMODATE. THAT SEEMS TO ME TO
BE PATHOLOGY MODEL. IN THE SENSE THAT ONE IS ACCOMMODATING TO WHATEVER IS BEING FRAMED
AS THE STANDARD.
NICK WALKER: NO, BECAUSE WE’RE TALKING ABOUT CREATING ACCOMMODATIONS IN THE SOCIAL
ENVIRONMENT, IN THE WORLD. NOT TRYING TO MAKE THE PERSON ACCOMMODATE. WE’RE NOT MAKING
AUTISTIC PEOPLE ACCOMMODATE THE WORLD. THAT IS THE PATHOLOGY PARADIGM MODEL AND YOU
ARE CORRECT. THAT IS THE WHOLE MODEL OF ABA, HOW DO WE MAKE THIS LITTLE AUTISTIC CHILD
ACCOMMODATE THE REST OF THE WORLD AND ITS EXPECTATIONS. I’M USING ACCOMMODATE FROM THE
OPPOSITE DIRECTION, WHICH IS HOW DO WE SHIFT THE SURROUNDING WORLD TO ACCOMMODATE THE
NEEDS OF THE AUTISTIC.
>> I THINK THE PROBLEM IS THE WORD ACCOMMODATION, CARRIES PARTICULAR MEANING IN
SCHOOL SETTINGS AND THAT IS WHAT YOU WERE REFERRING TO IN THE SENSE OF SUPPORT OF THE
STUDENTS SO THEY CAN BE LIKE OTHER STUDENTS?
NICK WALKER: I WOULD SAY SO THAT THEY CAN HAVE THE SAME ACCESS AS THE OTHER
STUDENTS. IT IS A VERY NEUTRAL AND BROAD WORD IN A WAY, SO YES, YOU ARE RIGHT, IT CAN
DEFINITELY HAVE THAT MEANING. IT CAN DEFINITELY HAVE THE MEANING, SO THEY CAN BE LIKE THE
OTHER STUDENTS. BUT IN THIS CASE, I’M THINKING ACCOMMODATION OF – A DIFFERENT SET OF
COGNITIVE NEEDS, BODILY NEEDS, INCLUDING MAYBE, A DIFFERENT SET OF OBJECTIVES. ACCOMMODATE
JUST IN THE SENSE OF HOW DO WE WELCOME THEM AND HOW DO WE MAKE THE ENVIRONMENT AUTISTIC
FRIENDLY. BECAUSE SCHOOLS ARE ALREADY SET UP TO ACCOMMODATE NON-AUTISTIC KIDS, KIND OF.
NOT THAT WELL, ACTUALLY. SO THAT YES, HOW DO WE ACCOMMODATE HUMANS? HOW DO WE SHIFT
THE SCHOOL AND CORPORATE ENVIRONMENTS TO ACCOMMODATE HUMAN BEINGS IN ALL OF THEIR
DIVERSITY? ANOTHER QUESTION? ANYTHING ELSE OUT THERE? WELL IN THAT CASE. I WILL CLOSE BY
SAYING, THIS TALK IS PART OF THE SERIES AROUND TEMPLE’S BOOK. TEMPLE IS INTERESTING, SHE WAS
VERY EARLY IN TERMS OF AUTISTIC PEOPLE SPEAKING OUT IN TERMS OF BEING AUTISTIC. THERE IS A
LOT MORE OF US DOING THAT NOW, WHICH I THINK IS A GOOD THING. THE MORE THE BETTER.
TEMPLE IS GETTING ON IN YEARS. SHE HAS BEEN AROUND FOR A WHILE AND ONE OF THE FIRST TO
START SPEAKING OUT ABOUT HER EXPERIENCE OF BEING AUTISTIC. I’M GLAD THERE ARE MORE PEOPLE
DOING IT NOW. TEMPLE’S WORK WAS PROGRAMMATIC FOR A WHILE BECAUSE ALL PEOPLE READ THAT
AND THOUGHT THAT IS WHAT AUTISM WAS LIKE. IT IS GOOD TO HAVE DIVERSITY AND HEAR WHAT OTHER
PEOPLE HAVE TO SAY BECAUSE WE ARE ALL UNIQUE, JUST LIKE EVERYONE ELSE. YOU WOULD NOT
WANT TO READ ONE PERSON’S BIOLOGY, LIKE BILL CLINTON AND NOW YOU KNOW WHAT IT IS LIKE TO BE
A WHITE PERSON OR A MAN, YOU READ CLINTON’S BIOLOGY AND NOW YOU GET THE WHOLE THING. SO I
THINK IT IS GOOD. IT IS GOOD TO HAVE THAT DIVERSITY OUT THERE. TEMPLE WAS A GROUND-BREAKER
WITH IT. BUT IN READING HER BOOK, IT IS IMPORTANT TO KEEP IN MIND IT IS ONE INDIVIDUAL. AND IT IS
INTERESTING TO WATCH HER OVER TIME STRUGGLE WITH THE PATHOLOGY PARADIGM BECAUSE SHE IS
KIND OF IN BETWEEN. RECENTLY SHE ADOPTED THE WORD NEURO DIVERSITY NOW, BUT IS NOT IN
DIALOGUE WITH THOSE OF US CREATING THE DISCOURSE AROUND THE PARADIGM. THE EARLY FAME HAS
SORT OF ISOLATED HER. IT IS GOOD TO SEE HER VIEW ON THINGS, WHICH IS A MIX. THE IMPORTANCE OF
HAVING AUTISM IN THE GENE POOL AND AT THE SAME TIME, A LOT OF THE LANGUAGE AND STUFF THAT
SHE CAME UP WITH ON HER OWN THAT IS IN BETWEEN. I HOPE THIS OFFERS SOME PERSPECTIVE ON HER
WORK.
AND ONE THING THAT SHE AND I ARE DEFINITELY IN AGREEMENT ON IS THE VALUE OF AUTISM IN
THE GENE POOL. IF WE LOOK AT THESE STUDIES THAT SAY THAT AUTISM HAS BEEN A CONSTANT AND
YOU CAN LOOK BACK IN HISTORY AND SAY, IT IS A GOOD CHANCE THIS PERSON WAS AUTISTIC. LOOK AT
CERTAIN HISTORICAL FIGURES AND PROBABLY WHAT WE’RE LOOKING AT THERE, BUT NO WAY TO KNOW
FOR SURE IN RETROSPECT.
I WAS IN A CONVERSATION ONCE WITH A COUPLE PEOPLE AND ONE OF THEM WAS ASKING ME, I
KNEW ONE WAS FAIRLY RELIGIOUS AND ASKING SORT OF TRYING TO GET A HANDLE ON THE NEURO
DIVERSITY PARADIGM AND WHAT I MEANT BY AUTISM BEING A NATURAL PART OF THE HUMAN SPECTRUM
OF DIVERSITY. AND EVEN GOD MAKES MISTAKES, THERE ARE A LOT OF AUTISTIC PEOPLE AND IS THIS A
MISTAKE AND DOES GOD SCREW UP, LIKE 1 IN EVERY 60 PEOPLE? I SAID, I SEE WHAT YOU MEAN AND NO, I
DON’T THINK SO. AND THE OTHER PERSON IN THE CONVERSATION WAS LIKE, YOU KNOW, I’M AN ATHEIST
AND I DON’T KNOW IF THAT HOLDS WATER. BUT THAT IS ALL RIGHT BECAUSE NATURAL SELECTION DOES
NOT MAKE MISTAKES, EITHER. WE SPENT MOST OF OUR HISTORY AS HUNTER GATHERERS IN HUMAN
TRIBAL COMMUNITIES AND AUTISM WOULD NOT BE IN THE GENE POOL IF IT WAS NOT USEFUL IN THE
COMMUNITIES. IT IS USEFUL AND WE HAVE A STRANGE SOCIETAL PARADIGM RIGHT NOW WHERE THINGS
ARE GEARED TOWARDS PRODUCTION OF WEALTH AND USEFULNESS. PEOPLE DON’T TAKE CARE OF EACH
OTHER WELL AND THERE IS THAT, “EVERYBODY PULLS THEIR OWN WEIGHT.” IF THINGS WERE DIFFERENT
IN THE SOCIETY, THIS PERSON WAS BORN INTO OUR TRIBE AND WE JUST TAKE CARE OF THEM AND
NOBODY IS LEFT BEHIND. TO BE ABLE TO ACTUALLY SURVIVE TO ADULTHOOD IN THE HUNTER GATHERER
SOCIETY AND BREED AND PASS GENES ON, THESE PEOPLE HAVE TO HAVE SOME VALUE TO THE TRIBE.
AND I THINK IT IS VERY CLEAR THAT THERE IS VALUE. THERE IS AN EVOLUTIONARY VALUE TO AUTISM.
THERE IS
AN EVOLUTIONARY VALUE JUST TO, YOU KNOW, YOU ARE A TRIBE OF HUNTER GATHERERS, NOMADIC
TRIBE AND YOU PASS THROUGH THIS ONE AREA EVERY FIVE YEARS AND THERE ARE SOME MUSHROOMS
IN THIS AREA THAT ARE GOOD TO EAT AND SOME THAT KILL YOU, IT IS USEFUL TO HAVE SOMEONE IN THE
TRIBE WHO REMEMBERS WHICH MUSHROOM IS WHICH, EVEN THOUGH YOU HAVE NOT BEEN THERE FOR
FIVE YEARS. YOU HAVE NO WRITING AND THEY RECOGNIZE A LITTLE SOMETHING ON THE MUSHROOM.
THERE IS A VALUE TO THAT.
WE’RE COMING TO A TIME – THE WORLD’S AT A DIFFICULT POINT. HUMAN SOCIETY IS AT A DIFFICULT
POINT. YOU PICK UP THE NEWSPAPER OR LOOK AT YOUR FACEBOOK NEWS FEED OR WHATEVER, AS DR.
SEUSS SAID, “THIS IS A TROUBLESOME WORLD AND PEOPLE ARE TROUBLED BY TROUBLE EVERY
MINUTE.”
THERE IS A JUNCTURE WHERE YOU HAVE TO MAKE COURSE CHANGES TO SURVIVE. THIS IS THE TIME
WHEN WE NEED TO DRAW ON ALL OF OUR RESOURCES. WHEN WE NEED TO DRAW ON HUMAN
INTELLIGENCE, HUMAN CREATIVE INTELLIGENCE TO ITS FULLEST. AND THAT MEANS THE MORE VARIETY,
THE MORE DIFFERENT KINDS OF MINDS WE HAVE LOOKING AT A PROBLEM, THE BETTER CHANCE
SOMEONE IS GOING TO HAVE AN INSIGHT INTO IT. THIS IS REALLY A TIME WHEN WE NEED A DIVERSITY OF
INTELLIGENCE. A REAL DIVERSITY OF MINDS TO HELP UNTANGLE THINGS. AND WE NEED COOPERATION
AND WE NEED PEOPLE FROM DIFFERENT MINORITIES TO HAVE A VOICE. YOU NEVER KNOW WHO IS GOING
TO HAVE THE INSIGHT THAT IS NEEDED. AND THANK YOU ALL VERY MUCH. (APPLAUSE)
ALLAN HOLLANDER: BEFORE YOU ALL GO, THERE IS AN EVALUATION FORM IF YOU WANT TO FILL IT
OUT. THANK YOU ALL FOR COMING. VERY INTERESTING DISCUSSION. THANK YOU.