WELDING
OCTOBER 2014
CONFIRMED
CONFIRMED MINUTES
OCTOBER 20-22, 2014
PITTSBURGH, PENNSYLVANIA, USA
These minutes are not final until confirmed by the Task Group in writing or by vote at a
subsequent meeting. Information herein does not constitute a communication or recommendation
from the Task Group and shall not be considered as such by any agency.
MONDAY, 20-OCT-2014 to WEDNESDAY, 22-OCT-2014
1.0
OPENING COMMENTS
1.1
Call to Order / Quorum Check
The Welding (WLD) Task Group was called to order at 8:00 a.m., 20-Oct-2014 by Steve Tooley.
Introductions were made and the roster circulated for completion by attendees.
It was verified that only SUBSCRIBER MEMBERS were in attendance during the closed portion
of the meeting.
A quorum was established with the following representatives in attendance:
Subscriber Members/Participants Present (* Indicates Voting Member)
NAME
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
COMPANY NAME
Robbie
Osawonuyi
Christopher
Julian
Saeed
Gary
Bill
Bob
Adams
Agbonkonkon
Borg
Buckland
Cheema
Coleman
Fitzgerald
Fletcher
Jenny
Larry
Milan
Brian
Hirohiko
Les
Rodney
Jerry
Michael
Jerry
Ralph
Holger
Mario
Don
Scott
Jason
Tim
Earl
Joe
Brittney
Brian
Joe
Fullum
Hamanishi
Hanyk
Harvey
Hattori
Hellemann
Holt
Hulin
Irvin
Isoaho
Kropp
Krueger
Leclerc
Lenhart
Maitland
Merrell
Nance
Pruett
Reigle
Reid
Ricks
Sebastiani
Honeywell Aerospace
Parker Aerospace Group
Gulfstream Aerospace Corp.
SAFRAN Group
Textron Inc.
The Boeing Company
Northrop Grumman Corporation
BAE Systems- Military Air & Information
(MAI)
Parker Aerospace Group
The Boeing Company
Honeywell Aerospace
Gulfstream Aerospace Corporation
Mitsubishi Heavy Industries (MITAC/MHI)
GE Aviation
Triumph Group Inc.
GKN Aerospace
The Boeing Company
GKN Aerospace Sweden AB
MTU Aero Engines AG
Airbus
Bombardier
Spirit AeroSystems
Goodrich (UTAS)
U.S. Air Force
Rockwell Collins Inc.
Lockheed Martin Corporation
Parker Aerospace Group
Parker Aerospace Group
Raytheon Company
Defense Contract Management Agency
Secretary
Vice Chairperson
WELDING
OCTOBER 2014
CONFIRMED
*
Paul
Naoki
Len
Steve
Kimberly
Slater
Sogabe
Tidwell
Tooley
Woodside
Rockwell Collins, Inc.
Mitsubishi Heavy Industries (MITAC/MHI)
Lockheed Martin Corporation
Rolls-Royce
Parker Aerospace Group
Chairperson
Other Members/Participants Present (* Indicates Voting Member)
NAME
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
James
Christy
Michael
Aja
Richard
Jim
Darron
Dan
Andrew
David
Richard
Shelly
Steve
Melinda
Angelo
Julie
Jim
David
T. J
Chris
Mike
Jackie
Gigi
Kevin
Christopher
COMPANY NAME
Ahlemeyer
Ballinger
Chmura
Collins
Freeman
Harlukowicz
Harris
Isherwood
Jackson
Jones
Kline
Lawless
McGinns
Mitton
Monzo
Motz
Olejarczyk
Osenar
Owen
Reed
Schleckman
Sternot
Streeter
Vecchiarelli
Webb
Ducommun AeroStructures
Ducommun
Litron Inc.
Unison Engine Components
TWI Ltd.
Wyman Gordon
Exotic Metals Forming Company
Yankee Casting
AMPP Services Ltd.
Precision Protective Coatings
X-Ray Industries
Meyer Tool, Inc.
PCC Airfoils
Advance Welding
Barnes Aerospace
Barnes Aerospace
Alcoa Forged Products
PAKO, Inc.
Geater Machining & Manufacturing Co.
Ducommun
Voss Industries
PAKO, Inc.
Barnes Aerospace
Yankee Casting Co., Inc.
PCC Structurals Inc.
PRI Staff Present
Rhonda
Joanna
Justin
Stacey
Kellie
Ian
1.2
Joseph
Leigh
McCabe
McKinley
Roach
Simpson
Review Code of Ethics (Ref: Attendees’ Guide) and Meeting Conduct
The Code of Ethics and Meeting Conduct policies were reviewed.
1.3
Present the Antitrust Video
The Antitrust policy video was shown.
1.4
Review Agenda
Ian Simpson reviewed the agenda for the October 2014 Nadcap meeting. New business items
were identified for inclusion in item 7.0 (in closed meeting) and item 16.0 (in open meeting). Mario
WELDING
OCTOBER 2014
CONFIRMED
Leclerc volunteered to be the Secretary on Wednesday, 22-Oct-2014 in the absence of Les
Hellemann.
1.5
Approval of Previous Meeting Minutes– OPEN
Motion made by Gary Coleman and seconded by Mike Schleckman to accept the June 2014
Nadcap meeting minutes from Dublin, Ireland as written. Motion passed.
1.6
RAIL Review – OPEN
The Rolling Action Item List (RAIL) was reviewed by Ian Simpson. All items with a due date of
October 2014 or prior are either closed or are included in this meeting for discussion.
For specific details, please see the current WLD Rolling Action Item List posted at
www.eAuditNet.com, under Public Documents.
1.7
Staff Engineer Communiqué
Ian Simpson presented a Nadcap Communiqué to the Task Group.
1.7.1
Revisions to Nadcap Operating Procedure NOP-001 (Membership definition, membership
maintenance, Verification Corrective Action audit process, appeal process clarified, addition of
time intervals appendix); General Task Group Procedure NOP-002 (allowance for Supplemental
criteria to be incorporated in main checklist); Oversight NOP-004 (Scope of Oversight plan,
frequency of reporting results); Supplier Advisories NOP-006 (Advisory retraction).
1.7.2
The March 2015 Nadcap meeting will be held in Berlin, Germany.
1.8
Steve Tooley presented his expectations for meeting conduct.
2.0
AUDITOR CONFERENCE – CLOSED
The Auditor Conference was conducted at the weekend prior to this meeting, October 18-19,
2014. The Task Group analyzed the effectiveness of the Auditor Conference and in general the
Task Group members who attended stated that it had been positive. Items that were particularly
well received were the Audit Professionalism, the Visual weld inspection presentation and the
Subscriber witnessed issues post Nadcap audit. Items that could be improved were
encouragement for all auditors to participate and conversely limit the discussion of some. The
Task Group stated that they would also like to review the auditor’s feedback to establish areas
that they felt were beneficial and those that could be improved. This information will be collected
by Performance Review Institute (PRI) and can be reviewed at the March 2015 meeting.
Based on this review, items identified by the auditors, previously identified training items and the
review of Auditor Consistency per NOP-012, the following recommendations were made for next
year’s conference.
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Subscriber specific training from Textron and Pratt & Whitney
Smart checklist – feedback from 2-3 Auditors on how the system is working
Nonconformance Report (NCR) writing re-fresher
Best / worst audit experience from each auditor
Update on professionalism
Supplier Feedback
Specification update
Opportunity for feedback on checklists
General Question and Answer
WELDING
OCTOBER 2014
CONFIRMED
It was also noted that the expectation of NOP-012 is that face-to-face meetings with auditors will
occur in 2015 to give them annual feedback. This will require the support of Subscribers to give
this feedback. This item is was discussed further; see item 3.1.1
ACTION ITEM: Ian Simpson to draft the 2015 Auditor Conference based on the suggested training
items. (Due Date: 3-Mar-2015)
3.0
AUDITOR EFFECTIVENESS – CLOSED
3.1
Review of NOP-012
Ian Simpson reviewed NOP-012, Auditor Consistency procedure and milestone plan provided by
the NOP-012 Implementation Team.
In general, the Task Group is on track to meet the NOP-012 deliverables as defined on the
milestone plan.
The following items were discussed:
3.1.1
Annual Review of Auditors
Annual Auditor feedback mechanism. This item has been discussed in detail at the prior 3 Task
Group meetings. Initially the Task Group believed that the per audit review was sufficient to
negate any further action. This was however challenged by the NOP-012 Implementation team.
At the June 2014 Nadcap Meeting the Task Group agreed that they would summarize each
individual auditor’s evaluation compared to the average commodity scores. The Nadcap
Management Council (NMC) implementation team again challenged the Task Group that this did
not meet their expectations. Steve Tooley and Ian Simpson were therefore actioned to propose
further additions and seek NMC acceptance. Hence, a template for annual review was created
that includes audit score, supplier feedback comments, observation audit results and
recommendations. This template was agreed by the NMC Implementation Team and was
reviewed by the Task Group. The Task Group agreed to use this template and the Staff Engineer
actioned to complete an annual review for each auditor. It was noted, where possible, that the
report should include any positive feedback, as well as any opportunities for improvement.
It should be noted that due to the time taken to finalize a method that was agreeable to the NMC,
this item will not be completed by October 2014 and is now planned to be complete by December
2014.
The discussion that Steve Tooley and Ian Simpson had with the NMC on the annual auditor
feedback, also defined the feedback mechanism. Due to the delay in agreement of this item, it is
logistically impossible to have face-to-face discussions with the auditors in 2014. Hence for 2014,
the NMC agreed that for those auditors with no issues, it would be acceptable to e-mail the
evaluation, giving them an opportunity to discuss if desired. For those auditors that the Task
Group have noted issues, it was decided that at least a telephone discussion with the Staff
Engineer is required.
Beyond 2014, it would be desirable to have face-to-face discussions with each auditor. This
would require the support of Task Group Subscriber members at the Auditor Conference.
There was some discussion on how this should be accomplished and Steve Tooley stated he
would request further guidance at the NOP-012 Roundtable meeting. This was duly completed
and the minimum that would be acceptable would be to have face-to-face meetings with any
auditor who has issues. The NMC would however prefer for all auditors to be addressed in faceto-face meetings from 2015. The Task Group will need to further evaluate the logistics of how
these meetings will be conducted in 2015 and beyond.
WELDING
OCTOBER 2014
CONFIRMED
ACTION ITEM: Ian Simpson to create an annual auditor review chart for each auditor. Steve Tooley
to be consulted if deemed necessary by Ian Simpson during their creation. (Due Date: 30-Nov2014)
ACTION ITEM: Ian Simpson to provide each auditor with an annual report and discuss with
individuals as deemed necessary. (Due Date: 31-Dec-2014)
3.1.2
Open Communication Plan
This was also an outstanding item post the June 2014 Nadcap Meeting. At the meeting Steve
Tooley and Ian Simpson had with the NMC, the method utilized by the WLD Task Group was
discussed and agreed. i.e.



No internet forum discussion group, instead using the Staff Engineers as a single point of
contact for general and checklist issues
Subscriber Task Group representatives can be contacted for Subscriber specific
questions either directly or via the Staff Engineer
Suggestion for checklist content / revisions can be provided to the Staff Engineer directly
at any time, in response to the annual review or at the Auditor Conference
The NMC agreed that this was sufficient to meet the Open Communication requirements imposed
by NOP-012. The auditors were reminded that they have these options at the October 2014
Auditor Conference.
3.1.3
Supplier feedback data review
It was noted at the June 2014 Nadcap Meeting that the next 6 months of data would be available
prior to this meeting. In order to ensure the Auditor Conference included the most recent
information, Steve Tooley and Ian Simpson were actioned to review the data and include any
generic items in the Auditor Conference. This was completed. The summary was however
reviewed by the Task Group to establish if any specific items were required.
The Task Group agreed that the generic training on the vast majority of items was sufficient at
this time, however, also noted that some specific feedback was required for a few of the auditors
and that this should be included on their Annual Feedback forms.
ACTION ITEM: Ian Simpson to include auditor specific items as a result of supplier feedback
comments to relevant Auditor’s Annual feedback forms. (Due Date: 30-Nov-2014)
It was also noted that the existing form that is used to show daily debriefs have occurred could be
modified to show attendees of the opening meeting. The Task Group felt that this would be
beneficial to provide evidence that the opening meeting had occurred, should there ever be a
dispute after the audit.
ACTION ITEM: Ian Simpson to modify the existing daily debrief log to add an entry for the opening
meeting. (Due Date: 31-Dec-2014)
The next 6 months of data will be available for analysis prior to the March 2015 meeting. Steve
Tooley and Ian Simpson volunteered to analyze this and provide a summary at the March 2015
Nadcap Meeting.
ACTION ITEM: Ian Simpson and Steve Tooley to analyze the supplier feedback and provide a
summary to the Task Group. (Due Date: 3-Mar-2015).
3.1.4
Standard data set
WELDING
OCTOBER 2014
CONFIRMED
The standard data set charts were reviewed by the Task Group. No specific items resulted from
this review; however it was noted that once Modified cycle checklists are introduced this would
likely skew the data, and as such it may be necessary to flag the data as standard cycle or
modified cycle so that the data is not misinterpreted.
ACTION ITEM: Ian Simpson to investigate the feasibility of segregating standard and modified
scope audit data in the standard data set provided to the Task Group. (Due Date: 3-Mar-2015)
ACTION ITEM: Ian Simpson to request modification of the standard data sets to allow for
segregation between standard and modified scope data. Note that this request will be via the
Annual report to NMC on NOP-012 implementation. (Due Date: 30-Nov-2014)
The discussion on chart effectiveness also resulted in how the chart that defines where each
auditor writes NCRs compared to specific checklist paragraphs could be manipulated to establish
if there are statistical variations that could allow the Task Group to perform any deep dives. Brian
Ricks volunteered to review this chart and establish if this is possible.
ACTION ITEM: Brian Ricks to evaluate where each auditor is writing NCRs by checklist item and
establish if there is variation that warrants further investigation by the Task Group. (Due Date: 3Mar-2015)
3.1.5
Auditor Observation plan / Observation reports
The Task Group reviewed the Observation plan. Of the 8 Auditors who were identified for
Observation this year, 7 have either been observed or are scheduled to be observed.
Observations of any ‘high risk’ Auditors have been completed. Observations of other Auditors (i.e.
not identified for Observation in 2014) have also been conducted. The Task Group again noted
issues such as suppliers refusing Observations, rescheduling of audits etc. as limitations on their
ability to meet the plan.
The Observation plan for 2015 was drafted. The observation of the Auditor who was identified for
a 2014 Observation that did not occur was made priority, along with routine observations of
another 5 Auditors, and an additional one noted as a priority follow-up.
ACTION ITEM: Ian Simpson to post the updated Observation plan in the Task Group’s working
forum page in eAuditNet. (Due Date: 15-Nov-2014)
The Task Group reviewed 6 Observations. The Observations noted some areas for improvement
and the Staff Engineer was actioned to communicate these to the relevant Auditors.
ACTION ITEM: Ian Simpson to communicate the Task Group’s comments to Auditors based on
Observation reports. (Due Date: 15-Nov-2014)
One of the Observation reports noted an issue in ISO 24394 that does not specifically require
eyesight restrictions to be noted on the Welder Qualification Test Record. Holger Krueger stated
that he would add this to the agenda for the next ISO working group meeting.
3.1.6
Annual Report to the NMC including proposed revisions to NOP-012
Steve Tooley and Ian Simpson drafted a summary report as required by NOP-012. This includes
the Task Group progress towards complete compliance as well as suggestions for modification to
the procedure. This was reviewed by the Task Group and a modified version agreed. Steve
Tooley will present this to the NMC on behalf of the Task Group.
ACTION ITEM: Steve Tooley to submit the Task Group’s NOP-012 annual plan to the NMC. (Due
Date: 15-Nov-14)
3.1.7
Dashboard
WELDING
OCTOBER 2014
CONFIRMED
A dashboard that incorporates the NOP-012 metrics was created for the June 2014 Nadcap
meeting. This was updated prior to this meeting by the Staff Engineer and was reviewed by the
Task Group.
3.1.8
Identify Training needs for Auditors
The review of data defined here and also from item 2.0 has resulted in identified training items
that have been added to a potential list of training items in 2015.
3.1.9
Remaining NOP-012 deliverables
The Task Group has already completed the following items as required by NOP-012
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Initial auditor training required for new Weld Auditors
Proficiency testing. This was previously deemed not necessary based on the method the
Task Group use to initially hire auditors and how they subsequently remove process
restrictions
An appendix to the Observation form was not deemed necessary as the standard form
allows sufficient information to be noted
Audit Report Reviewer assessment data was reviewed at the February 2014 meeting.
This data only requires review annually
3.2
Ian Simpson provided an update of auditor restriction removals and new auditors entering the
system.
4.0
SUPPLIER ADVISORIES – CLOSED
4.1
Review of Advisories since June 2014 Nadcap Meeting.
Five Supplier Advisories have been issued by WLD since the last Task Group meeting, # 2488,
#2496, #2505, #2518 and #2521. These were reviewed. No additional actions were identified.
It was also noted that the Risk Mitigation associated with Supplier Advisory #2480 had been
completed. A question was asked as to how a reply could be made to a supplier’s response
should there be conflict in what the Risk Mitigation Team Reviewers were requesting. Steve
Tooley subsequently requested clarification from this at the Planning and Operations meeting and
was informed that in situations such as this, the NMC should be contacted to resolve the matter.
Advisory #2521 requires Risk Mitigation. A team of Subscribers has been assigned for this.
Two Supplier Advisories were issued by other commodities that could have an effect on WLD
accreditations. These advisories, # 2507 and #2517 were reviewed. There was concern that both
of these advisories were on the same Supplier. The NDT Task Group was consulted to establish
if the item they issued was still a concern. The feedback provided indicated that they believed that
the matter had been adequately resolved. From initial further investigation it was believed that
General Electric (GE) were the only Nadcap Subscriber with welded product at this Supplier,
hence they were asked to establish if any quality issues had been noted. GE subsequently
confirmed that they had not experienced any issues with welded product from this Supplier.
Review of Subscriber Advisories.
No Supplier Advisories are required as a result of Subscriber declarations.
5.0
STAFF ENGINEER DELEGATION – CLOSED
5.1
The Staff Engineer reviewed data for Audit Report Reviewers using delegation oversight form tfrm-07, including percentage oversight by Task Group, percentage NCRs concurred with by the
Task Group and other items pertaining to audit completeness. All requirements of NOP-003 were
met for the delegated Audit Report Reviewers and the following Motions were made.
WELDING
OCTOBER 2014
CONFIRMED
Motion made by Ralph Kropp and seconded by Gary Coleman to maintain Ian Simpson’s
delegation. Motion Passed.
Motion made by Ralph Kropp and seconded by Gary Coleman to maintain Mike Gutridge’s
delegation. Motion Passed.
Motion made by Ralph Kropp and seconded by Gary Coleman to maintain Wayne Canary’s
delegation. Motion Passed.
It was also noted that Stan Revers held delegation during this review period, but that he is no
longer at PRI. The delegation data was viewed and no issues identified.
6.0
SUBSCRIBER DEVIATIONS – CLOSED
6.1
No Subscriber Deviations were requested for review.
7.0
NEW BUSINESS – CLOSED
7.1
At the June 2014 Task Group meeting, the Risk Mitigation process as required by NOP-011 for
failed audits was explained. Since this process was introduced, the Task Group has only required
two Risk Mitigation teams to be formed and each had different Subscriber members. Hence the
procedural requirements were re-emphasized so that all Subscriber members are aware of the
requirements. Also see item 4.1.
8.0
REVIEW MEMBERSHIP STATUS – OPEN
The WLD Task Group reviewed the Membership status.
8.1
The following Subscriber members were noted as attending their first WLD meeting.
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8.2
Saeed Cheema – Textron Inc.
Brian Harvey - Gulfstream Aerospace
Rodney Holt – Triumph Group Inc.
Joe Sebastiani – Defense Contract Management Agency (DCMA)
Jason Merrell - U.S. Air Force
Tim Nance – Rockwell Collins, Inc.
Hirohiko Hattori of Mitsubishi Heavy Industries attended his second meeting. The Task Group
Chairperson agreed to the appointment of Hirohiko Hattori as Subscriber Voting Member (UVM)
for Mitsubishi Heavy Industries and m-frm-01 was completed.
Jerry Hulin of GKN Aerospace, Bristol attended his second meeting. At this time however the
Subscription for GKN Aeropsace, Bristol does not include WLD. The annual Subscription renewal
is however imminent and as such, The Task Group Chairperson agreed to the appointment of
Jerry Hulin as UVM for GKN Aerospace, Bristol, subject to the Subscription being updated to
include WLD. m-frm-01 was completed, but will not be implemented until the Subscription is
updated.
8.3
Task Group meeting attendance and ballot participation was reviewed per Nadcap Operating
Procedure NOP-001 requirements. Cessna Aircraft Company (now subscribing as Textron Inc.)
have not balloted on 2 consecutive letter ballots and as such, per NOP-001 have lost their voting
rights.
Ken Sposato left the employment of Triumph Group Inc. on 01-Aug-2014. His Voting rights were
removed at that time.
Barnes Aerospace requested a change to their primary Voting member. i.e. for Angelo Monzo to
become their Supplier Voting Member (SVM), with Gigi Streeter moving to Alternate Supplier
Voting Member (ALT/SVM).
WELDING
OCTOBER 2014
CONFIRMED
ACTION ITEM: Ian Simpson to add Hirohiko Hattori as UVM for Mitsubishi Heavy Industries. (Due
Date: 15-Nov-2014)
ACTION ITEM: Ian Simpson to add Jerry Hulin as UVM for GKN Aerospace, Bristol, once the
Subscription has been updated to include WLD. (Due Date: 31-Dec-2014)
ACTION ITEM: Steve Tooley to notify Jeremy Philips that his Voting Rights have been lost. (Due
Date: 15-Nov-2014)
ACTION ITEM: Ian Simpson to remove Voting rights for Jeremy Philips of Textron Inc. (Cessna
Aircraft Company). (Due Date: 30-Nov-2014)
ACTION ITEM: Ian Simpson to change Angelo Monzo to SVM and Gigi Streeter to ALT/SVM for
Barnes Aerospace. (Due Date: 30-Nov-2014)
8.4
Richard Freeman of TWI Ltd has been acting as a Specialist to the Task Group for a number of
meetings, predominantly to assist in the development of a checklist for Additive Manufacture. In
this role Richard is attending all open meetings. Should specialist help be required to address any
specific supplier issues on this process in the future, the Task Group Chair stated that he will
invite Richard to some portions of closed meetings as allowed by NOP-001.
9.0
SUPPLIER SUPPORT COMMITTEE (SSC) REPORT – OPEN
9.1
Mike Schleckman gave a presentation on SSC Activities. This gave information on its role,
current activities, the mentoring program and SSC initiatives and events. SSC provides an
avenue for suppliers to have input and give feedback to the Nadcap system. Provides answers
and support for suppliers who have questions and problems. Current activities involve mentoring
suppliers, metrics, supplier surveys, help desk at Nadcap meeting, and education.
10.0
NADCAP MANAGEMENT COUNCIL (NMC) METRICS – OPEN
10.1
Ian Simpson reviewed the NMC metrics, including:
Accreditations Issued/Lapsed, Eligible Merit, On-Time Certification, Staff Cycle Time Initial, Staff
Cycle Time Reaccreditation, Task Group Cycle Time Initial, Task Group Cycle Time
Reaccreditation, Supplier Cycle Time Initial, Supplier Cycle Time Reaccreditation. All metric
charts were green, except Task Group Cycle Time Reaccreditation which was yellow. This nongreen metric has been previously discussed and the Task Group chose to take no further action.
11.0
SPECIFICATION CHANGES – OPEN
11.1
Gary Coleman provided an update on the status of American Welding Society (AWS)
specifications. The current goal is to have the new revision of AWS D17.1 by 2016. Three major
changes are likely; vision test; visual inspector training approval; procedure qualification. AWS
D17.2 is currently under review with likely revisions to encompass real time adaptive control; flat
vs. curved coupons; sheet separation limits; nugget diameter minimum value vs. metallographic
values. AWS D17.3 has had comment resolution with the next step being a review by the
Technical Activities Committee.
AWS D17.1, D17.2 and D17.3 Committees will meet in the week commencing 11-Nov-14 at the
FABTECH convention in Atlanta, GA.
The Staff Engineer showed a comment from AWS. Prior minutes had noted that gaining QC1
certification of Visual Weld Inspectors outside of North America was a difficult proposition. AWS
provided information that showed that they conduct many exams outside of North America and
that the perceived difficulty in obtaining QC1 in other regions is not a true reflection of reality.
AWS provided a link to their QC1 qualification page and is provided here for reference
http://www.aws.org/w/a/registrations/prices_schedules_intl.html?noleft=1
WELDING
OCTOBER 2014
CONFIRMED
Holger Krueger provided an update on the status of ISO specifications. ISO notes that visual
acuity remains an issue and they are currently reviewing 3 alternatives; ISO 16338 (resistance
weld) – there are errors in the shear force requirements and also a clarification in the clear
annulus zone that is to be addressed; ISO 24394 is due for review and will include an
enhancement of the table that depicts test piece and weld position; ISO 11745 AMD 1 will
introduce improved eyesight test requirements; ISO 17533 is for welding design and will be
released soon; ISO / PWI 17927 is for fusion welding, but it will likely take some time to complete;
a new work item for Visual inspection has been added; the Committee continue to look at other
weld processes for ISO specification control, i.e. Additive Manufacture, Electron beam and Laser
beam welding.
The ISO Committee will meet the week prior to the March 2015 Nadcap Meeting at DIN in Berlin,
Germany. Their autumn meeting will be the week prior to the Nadcap October 2015 meeting at
Boeing’s Renton, WA facility.
Holger Krueger gave permission for the ISO Committee update to be posted in eAuditNet. This
will be added to the Public Documents section for Welding (Resources / Documents / Public
Documents / Welding / Data Folder).
ACTION ITEM: Ian Simpson to post the ISO Committee update presentation in eAuditNet. (Due
Date: 15-Nov-2014)
12.0
HYDROGEN GENERATOR – OPEN
12.1
Discussion on the use of Hydrogen Generator in the braze process
An update of the process was given at the June 2014 Nadcap Meeting by Scott Maitland. At that
time the Task Group decided that they required more information in order to establish if a
checklist to control this process is required.
Scott Maitland provided an update at this meeting. There does not appear to be any
specifications that control this process. Generic literature of how the process is controlled has
also not been forthcoming. There are concerns that the theoretical ratio of hydrogen to oxygen of
2:1 has to be significantly exceeded to ensure an oxidizing flame is not used. It was suggested
that trials may have to be implemented to assess the levels of oxygen that are present in the
flame. Gary Coleman and Richard Freemen agreed to work with Scott Maitland to determine
possible process control mechanisms and report back to the Task Group at the March 2015
meeting.
ACTION ITEM: Scott Maitland, Gary Coleman and Richard Freeman to obtain additional
information on controlling specifications, process control mechanisms and other key information
on hydrogen generator brazing and report back to Task Group at the March 2015 meeting. (Due
Date: 4-Mar-15)
13.0
FORUM FOR SUPPLIER ISSUES – OPEN
Vision test requirement discussion initiated by Jackie Sternot to ensure the proposed changes to
AWS D17.1 will allow more options for testing and not add more requirements. Gary Coleman
confirmed that it was the intent to give more options and not additional requirements.
14.0
ADDITIVE MANUFACTURE – OPEN
At the June 2014 Nadcap Meeting, the sub-group of Richard Freeman, Scott Maitland and
Robbie Adams presented a draft checklist to the Task Group. The draft was reviewed and
comments made for consideration by the sub-group. Chris English also volunteered to join the
sub-group.
WELDING
OCTOBER 2014
CONFIRMED
At this meeting, Richard Freeman presented the current state of the Additive Manufacture draft
checklist. They have re-formatted to move powder control into the baseline portion of the
checklist, utilized language for powder control based on existing Coatings checklist questions and
incorporated comments from the June 2014 Nadcap Meeting. The sub-group is trying to gain
information from equipment suppliers but although they are, in general, keen to help, the
necessary information has not yet been forthcoming.
It was noted that a checklist could not be introduced without it being based on specifications, but
the Task Group stated they need to start development otherwise they will not be able to catch-up
once specifications are released. Compliance against NOP-002 checklist vision will be assured
prior to issue.
The latest draft was reviewed and comments made by the Task Group. The sub-group will
continue to work on the development of the checklist and will address the Task Group again at
the March 2015 Nadcap Meeting.
ACTION ITEM: Sub-team of Richard Freeman, Scott Maitland, Robbie Adams and Chris English to
address Task Group comments, revise draft Additive Manufacturing checklist as needed and
report back to the Task Group at the March 2015 Nadcap Meeting. (Due Date: 4-Mar-15)
15.0
TOP 10 NCR GUIDANCE – OPEN
At the June 2014 Nadcap Meeting, a sub-group of Scott Maitland, Mike Schleckman, Lyle Morris
and Ian Simpson was formed to review if guidance could be provided for the top 10 NCRs in an
attempt to help suppliers understand why these NCRs keep re-occurring and ultimately suggest
methods to prevent this. The Task Group had performed a similar task many years ago, but as
some of the top 10 NCRs have changed, it was thought that revamping this would be beneficial.
At this meeting, the sub-group presented a proposal for top10 NCR guidance. This was reviewed
by the Task Group and minor modifications made. The Task Group approved the document and
instructed the Staff Engineer to post the document in eAuditNet. (Resources / Documents / Public
Documents / Welding / Supplier Information).
ACTION ITEM: Ian Simpson to post the top 10 NCR Guidance document in eAuditNet. (Due Date:
15-Nov-2014)
16.0
NEW BUSINESS ITEMS – OPEN
16.1
GE Aviation suggested that the Task Group should discuss the requirements for calibration of
electron beam weld equipment. While calibration of gauges is almost certainly a requirement in all
specifications, there is some greyness about the need to calibrate the direct power output.
AC7110/3 paragraph 5.2 is quite generic and does not specify which is required. In order to
provide further guidance, subscribers will need to establish what they require. Should all require
direct power calibration, the question could be revised, however, if this is a requirement of only a
few subscribers then the likelihood is that Supplemental checklist requirements would be defined.
Until such time this information is known, no changes can be made. Hence all Subscribers were
requested to collect this information for discussion at the March 2015 Nadcap Meeting.
ACTION ITEM: Subscribers to assess the need to add clarification to the Auditor Handbook and /
or determine the need for a checklist supplement with respect to electron beam weld machine
calibration. (Due Date: 4-Mar-2015)
ACTION ITEM: Ian Simpson to add an agenda item for the March 2015 Task Group meeting to
discuss calibration requirements for electron beam welding. (Due Date: 15-Nov-2014)
Minimum penetration for resistance spot welding (RSW) – Milan Hanyk presented differences of
specification requirements to RSW nugget cross sectional profiles. Milan has submitted an
interpretation request to AWS on this matter and will provide an update to the Task Group when a
reply is received.
WELDING
OCTOBER 2014
CONFIRMED
A question was asked about the selection of parts on modified cycle audits. The Job selection
handbook was shown. Suppliers were advised to review as modified cycle audits will have an
additional job audit per checklist. The Job selection handbook is posted in eAuditNet with the
other Weld Handbooks (Resources / Documents / Public Documents / Welding / Audit
Information).
17.0
CREATE NMC FEEDBACK CHART – OPEN
17.1
The Task Group generated the feedback chart for presentation by Steve Tooley at the NMC
meeting.
18.0
EQUALIFIED WELDING REVIEW BOARD UPDATE – OPEN
18.1
Justin McCabe from PRI addressed the Task Group to inform them that the eQualified Review
Board had selected Weld for development of a qualification program. Justin informed the Task
Group of how the process had worked for other commodities and that the kick-off meeting with
interested bodies in Welding had identified potential areas of development for resistance welding,
laser beam welding and electron beam welding.
Les Hellemann suggested that the program could encompass an Aerospace specific Visual Weld
Inspector qualification and that this could then be adopted by subscribers as a qualification that
allows them to approve these individuals to meet AWS D17.1 paragraph 7.1.2.
The presentation will be posted in eAuditNet. (Resources / Documents / Public Documents /
Welding / Supplier Information)
Additional information on the eQualified Program is available on www.p-r-i.org (Professional
Development / Qualifications)
One slide reported that qualification would support Part 21 and Part 145 compliance. This was
questioned and Justin McCabe actioned to establish where this statement had originated.
ACTION ITEM: Ian Simpson to post the presentation on eQualified in eAuditNet. (Due Date: 15Nov-2014)
ACTION ITEM: Justin McCabe to investigate how the program may be used to support Part 21 and
Part 145 compliance. (Due Date: 30-Nov-2014)
19.0
AUDITOR ADVISORIES – OPEN
19.1
One Auditor Advisory has been issued since the June 2014 Nadcap Meeting. This was reviewed
by the Staff Engineer.
The Task Group was reminded that these are posted in eAuditNet (Resources / Documents /
Public Documents / Welding / Auditor Advisories).
20.0
NTGOP 001 APPENDIX BALLOT DISPOSITION – OPEN
20.1
At the June 2014 Nadcap Meeting, potential revisions to the Weld specific appendix of NTGOP001 were discussed. The main item of discussion was revision of paragraph 6.0 to further define
rules surrounding the use of smart checklists. At this time it was noted that the terminology could
be confusing and as such a sub-group was formed to review the terms, modify the verbiage in
this section and subsequently ballot the procedure.
During discussion it became apparent that the confusion of terms stemmed from a change in how
the NMC sub-group had determined the method for smart checklists should work. The Weld subgroup sought clarification from the NMC sub-group lead, Bob Koukol, as to how this could be
resolved. It is noted that the NMC and the Weld Task Group are clear in how the technology is
WELDING
OCTOBER 2014
CONFIRMED
used and that this is simply a terminology issue. On this basis, the Weld sub-group revised the
verbiage to simply define the terms used in eAuditNet and remove the terms used by NMC.
The procedure completed Task Group ballot on 15-Oct-14 with no comments, hence the Staff
Engineer will complete the ballot process by balloting to NMC.
ACTION ITEM: Ian Simpson to ballot NTGOP-001 Appendix WLD to NMC. (Due Date: 30-Nov-14)
21.0
NMC MEETING REPORT – OPEN
21.1
Steve Tooley gave a summary of key items that were discussed in the Chair / Staff Engineer
roundtable meeting on NOP-012, Planning and Operations meeting and NMC meeting. Key items
were:



The NMC have appointed a sub-team to review the Task Group cycle time metric
Observation Audit data for weld shows that 20 observations were requested; 12
completed, 4 rejected by Supplier, 4 cancelled by Observer
Expectation of NMC is for face-to-face meetings with auditors annually
22.0
CHECKLIST ITEMS – OPEN
22.1
Handbook revisions
The Staff Engineer presented possible revisions to the AC7110/12 handbook. This was reviewed
by the Task Group and agreed. These were administrative changes to align correctly with the
checklist.
The Staff Engineer presented possible revisions to the AC7110/5 handbook. These included
guidance on electrode control, multi-pass welds used on hardfacing and tack weld definition. This
was reviewed by the Task Group and agreed. It was noted that some of these revisions will also
apply to other handbooks.
The auditors requested that Boeing revise their guidance on performance to reflect that this
needs to review acceptability of welds and not simply that the welder has welded. This is in
relation to extended validity in AC7110/12S paragraph 3.20. Boeing agreed to provide additional
guidance.
ACTION ITEM: Ian Simpson to issue revised handbook for AC7110/12. (Due Date: 30-Nov-2014)
ACTION ITEM: Michael Irvin to provide revised guidance for AC7110/12S paragraph 3.20. (Due
Date: 15-Nov-2014)
ACTION ITEM: Ian Simpson to issue revised handbook for AC7110/12S. (Due Date: 30-Nov-2014)
ACTION ITEM: Ian Simpson to incorporate agreed revisions into all appropriate handbooks and
issue revised handbooks. (Due Date: 30-Nov-2014)
22.2
Checklists revisions
The Staff Engineer confirmed that the resistance weld checklist had been issued with an
effectivity date of 30-Nov-2014.
The Staff Engineer confirmed that the checklist for torch and induction brazing, AC7110/1, had
been approved by NMC and as such PRI will issue it as soon as possible. As it affects
accreditation it will have the minimum 90 day implementation period imposed. The Staff Engineer
has updated the handbook with the same verbiage as used in the AC7110/5 handbook to explain
how standard and modified cycle checklists will be used. Other changes were presented to
WELDING
OCTOBER 2014
CONFIRMED
accommodate other checklist changes. The Task Group reviewed and revised as necessary. The
handbook will be issued when the AC7110/1 checklist is issued.
ACTION ITEM: Ian Simpson to issue AC7110/1 Rev G and associated handbook. (Due Date: 31Dec-2014)
The electron beam weld checklist was revised to allow modified cycle audits and also incorporate
items from the rolling list of checklist items. This was balloted to the Task Group. Formal
notification was sent that resolution of comments would be addressed at this meeting. Each ballot
comment was reviewed and addressed. Changes that were agreed are all editorial, hence the
Staff Engineer is able to incorporate and ballot directly to the NMC without the requirement for a
further ballot to the Task Group.
The Task Group did however note that although some of the proposed revisions would not be
incorporated at this revision, that they should be added to the rolling action item list for
incorporation into future checklist revisions.
ACTION ITEM: Ian Simpson to complete ballot resolution process for AC7110/3 and subsequently
ballot to NMC. (Due Date: 15-Nov-2014)
ACTION ITEM: Ian Simpson to add proposed revision of AC7110/3 paragraph D.1.9 through D.1.11
to the rolling action list of proposed checklist revisions. (Due Date: 15-Nov-2014)
Since the June 2014 meeting, the supplemental checklists have been successfully balloted to
revise requirements for GE Aviation and MTU Aero Engines AG. These, as well as the associated
handbooks, have subsequently been issued with an effectivity of 11-Jan-2015.
The Task Group maintains a rolling list of items for requests on checklist revision. Since the last
Task Group meeting, 3 items were added and dispositioned by the Task Group: A proposal for
the deletion of AC7110/1 paragraph 4.3.5.6 as proposed in the ballot of AC7110/1 for future
consideration was rejected; revision to AC7110 paragraph 5.3 as suggested at the Auditor
Conference was partially agreed in that the Task Group dispositioned that clarification should be
via the handbook and not a checklist revision (this was also agreed in paragraph 22.1); a
suggestion to add laser weld tacking prior to electron beam welding was not agreed, however the
Task Group did agree that tacking control should be made more generic and remove the currently
specific GTAW tack welding at future revisions.
22.3
Smart Checklist
The next checklist identified for revision to allow modified cycle audits is Laser Welding,
AC7110/6. The Staff Engineer has drafted this checklist using the same philosophy that has
already been used on previously revised checklists. It has also incorporated all relevant items
from the rolling list of action items. The Staff Engineer was actioned to add any related items from
the disposition of comments on AC7110/3 and then ballot it.
ACTION ITEM: Ian Simpson to ballot the AC7110/6 checklist. (Due Date: 30-Nov-2014)
The Task Group agreed that the next checklist to be modified would be the welder / weld operator
qualification checklist, AC7110/12. The Staff Engineer has started to draft the revision and has
incorporated the items form the rolling list. The Staff Engineer suggested that it would be
beneficial to have a sub-group of individuals with knowledge of the Industry qualification
specifications formed to review the draft. A sub-team of Michael Irvin, Holger Krueger and Bob
Fletcher was formed to review the draft checklist with the intent of a pre-ballot review at the
March 2015 Task Group meeting.
ACTION ITEM: Sub-team of Michael Irvin, Holger Krueger and Bob Fletcher to present draft of
AC7110/12 at the March 2015 meeting. (Due Date: 4-Mar-2015)
WELDING
OCTOBER 2014
CONFIRMED
23.0
MARCH 2015 NADCAP MEETING AGENDA – OPEN
The Task Group agreed that priority items include: revision of the remaining checklists to smart
checklist format; Additive Manufacture; review / analyze Auditor Consistency data.
The Staff Engineer was requested to establish if any regular agenda items are required to be
added and then to draft the agenda.
24.0
REVIEW OF ACTION ITEMS – OPEN
All action items were reviewed for proper assignment and due date.
25.0
REVIEW OF MEETING EFFECTIVENESS – OPEN
The meeting was considered to be effective in meeting its goals. It was suggested that internet
access should be available to assist members in obtaining any relevant material that is useful to
meeting discussion items.
26.0
NEXT MEETING – OPEN
As the format of the March Nadcap Meeting includes the NMC meeting on Thursday morning, the
Task Group requests to meet Tuesday to Thursday. Hence the meeting will be 3-5-Mar-2015 in
Berlin, Germany.
ADJOURNMENT – 23-OCT-14 – Meeting was adjourned at 5:00 p.m.
Minutes Prepared by: Les Hellemann (les.hellemann@ge.com) 20/21-Oct14, and Mario Leclerc
(Mario.leclerc@aero.bombardier.com) 22-Oct-14
***** For PRI Staff use only: ******
Are procedural/form changes required based on changes/actions approved during this meeting? (select
one)
YES* ☒ NO ☐
*If yes, the following information is required:
Documents requiring revision:
Who is responsible:
NTGOP 001 App WLD
Ian Simpson
Due date:
30-Nov-14 (for ballot to be sent
to NMC)