BOLOGNA
Participants (26): agnes, katalin_janka, kasa, varganora, pentek, lnagy, mstrubell, avillalonga, istvan, ainhoa, jirmijah,
mfulop, Peter_Hantz, csabalogh, unifel2, Tamas_Juhasz, ori, peter_juhasz, mcpasztori, iren, ABOA, lochner, denes,
bpalmada, fekete, bakk.
The Bologna Process and the higher education of national minorities
In 1999 most European countries signed the Bologna Declaration, in which they
expressed their determination to create a unified European higher education area, thus
aiming to make the higher educational training traversable and to ensure the necessary
standard. They saw the realization of this task through linear training. This means that the
process of higher education must happen in three cycles in each country. The first cycle is
the bachelor, i.e. the basic training (minimum three years). The second is the master’s
course, the third being the doctoral studies (PhD).
The first cycle is intended to be realized on a wider professional scale, while the master
training can be conceived within more restricted research areas as well. It is important for the
basic degree to enable the graduate to find his/her place on the labor market. At the same
time it is essential to offer the possibility for everyone to continue his/her studies within the
framework of his/her basic training or in a related specialization. This means that the basic
training cannot have dead ends, and this will have to be valid for the language of the
education as well, that is, everybody must be presented with the opportunity to continue
his/her studies on the second and third level in his/her mother tongue.
During this year every university in Romania is compelled to adapt to the new system,
and let us admit, in a quite unprepared manner. In other countries this will be made
compulsory only in the following years.
The Bologna process is so far in a state of experience, concrete results are not yet
discernible, and nevertheless, there are certain fears already. This is why it is worth having a
debate concerning its every aspect in order to avoid failures. The following questions
emerge:
1. Is there a certain specialization in your university, the existence of which and/or the
quality of the training offered by it may be endangered through the putting in practice of the
Bologna Process?
2. Is there a danger in your university that on the higher (masters and doctoral) levels the
mother-tongue training will cease in certain subject areas or specializations?
3. How is it possible to avoid the emptying of universities having minority languages as
the tongue of tuition, if the traversable character of the universities will become a general
feature of European education, and thus the young people belonging to a minority group can
study either in the mother-country or in other countries without any restrictions?
4. According to your opinion, what other advantages or disadvantages does the
introduction of the Bologna Process involve?
[16:12] lnagy | vicerector | Babes-Bolyai University
I will shortly answer to the questions formulated in the out sent text concerning the Bologna process, from the point
of view of the Babes-Bolyai University:
1. No specialization in Hungarian is endangered by the Bologna process, we have increased the number of
specializations offered in Hungarian. The only problem (but on the national level) ar the traditional so called double
specializations.
2. We also increase the training in Hungarian at Master and PhD level, but in this case the training in widely spoken
languages (mostly English) is also very important.
3. We have to attract students by offering quality.
4. [16:16] mstrubell | ex-director, Humanities degree programs | Universitat Oberta de Catalunya
My question is: in each of your countries, is the Bologna process being used by the central government in order to
restrict the content, or even the range, of university degrees, so that only the majority culture receives full support?
[16:19] mstrubell | ex-director, Humanities degree programs | Universitat Oberta de Catalunya
As regards as the possible influence of foreign students on the language of tuition is concerned, this is not the result
of Bologna but rather of the Socrates programs (and particularly the Erasmus student exchanges).
Do they have an influence in your university?
[16:26] kasa | professor | Babes-Bolyai Cluj
Foreign students influence on the language of tuition at this moment is not significant, at list in our university. The
number of incoming students is not very high (but is increasing). At master level we have a lot of programmes in English.
At bachelor level (maybe) only in Computer Science and Chemistry.
[16:55] kasa | professor | Babes-Bolyai Cluj
The Bologna topic is sleeping soundly.
The two-way mobility is important. The fears are that this can be transformed in one-way to west only.
[17:25] mstrubell | ex-director, Humanities degree programs | Universitat Oberta de Catalunya
The joint declaration of the European Ministers of Education convened in Bologna on the 19th of June 1999, can be
read here in English (for instance):
http://www.murst.it/convegni/bologna99/dichiarazione/english.htm
It says:
"The importance of education and educational co-operation in the development and strengthening of stable,
peaceful and democratic societies is universally acknowledged as paramount, the more so in view of the situation in
South East Europe."
Do you agree with this statement?
[17:32] mstrubell | ex-director, Humanities degree programs | Universitat Oberta de Catalunya
Question 4 asks: "According to your opinion, what other advantages or disadvantages does the introduction of the
Bologna Process involve?"
1. Adoption of a system of easily readable and comparable degrees, also through the implementation of the Diploma
Supplement, in order to promote European citizens' employability and the international competitiveness of the European
higher education system.
Good for everyone (I believe!)
2. Adoption of a system essentially based on two main cycles, undergraduate and graduate. Access to the second
cycle shall require successful completion of first cycle studies, lasting a minimum of three years. The degree awarded
after the first cycle shall also be relevant to the European labour market as an appropriate level of qualification. The
second cycle should lead to the master and/or doctorate degree as in many European countries.
Good for everyone (I believe!)
3. Establishment of a system of credits - such as in the ECTS system - as a proper means of promoting the most
widespread student mobility. Credits could also be acquired in non-higher education contexts, including lifelong learning,
provided they are recognised by receiving Universities concerned.
Good for everyone (I believe!), and a promising reference for us to "non-higher education contexts"
[17:33] mstrubell | ex-director, Humanities degree programs | Universitat Oberta de Catalunya
4. Promotion of mobility by overcoming obstacles to the effective exercise of free movement with particular attention
to:
* for students, access to study and training opportunities and to related services
Good for everyone (I believe!) ... so long as we are good!
* for teachers, researchers and administrative staff, recognition and valorisation of periods spent in a European
context researching, teaching and training, without prejudicing their statutory rights.
Good for everyone (I believe!)
5. Promotion of European co-operation in quality assurance with a view to develop comparable criteria and
methodologies
Good for everyone (I believe!) ... if we are good!
Promotion of the necessary European dimensions in higher education, particularly with regards to curricular
development, inter-institutional co-operation, mobility schemes and integrated programs of study, training and research.
Good for everyone (I believe!)
Do you agree?
[17:40] kasa | professor | Babes-Bolyai Cluj
I agree Mstrubell opinion. All these can help Europeans to be competitive with Americans.
[17:52] ori | president | Transcarpathian Hungarian Institute named after F. Rákóczi II
Ukraine has just joined the Bologna Process. Till now the system had four levels. The degrees were: young
specialists, bachelor, specialist and master's. The most important question is how the system can be altered to a twolevel one and respectively what will happen to those who already have the first and the third degree.
[17:55] varganora | leader of the Department of the PR | J. Selye University
Some words about our university: J. Selye University is a just founded state institution in Slovakia which provides
higher education for Hungarian minority.
Let me just answer the questions:
1. There is no danger concerning this process. The educational system of our university has been formed according
to the standards of the Bologna Process.
2. There is no danger either. It is the obligation of our University to ensure the education on higher levels (master's
and doctoral) in the mother tongue.
3. To maintain a high quality level education (of course in mother tongue), offering beneficial scholarships and
student loan system. Installing/ using modern equipments etc.
4. More or less there are only advantages. However there might be a possibility - due to the mobility (studentsteachers) - that e.g. students studying in the mother country will not return to their home place.
[18:00] mcpasztori | lecturer | Protestant Theological Institute Kolozsvar
My personal opinion is that the 3+2+3 years' university traning process, which is, in a way, imposed upon us, bears
huge dangers within itself. It is absolutely irresponsible to put a university diploma into someone's hand after three years
of studying.
[18:04] mcpasztori | lecturer | Protestant Theological Institute Kolozsvar
In three years' time (excuse the formulation) one is able to learn where the library and the toilet is in the university
building, not to become trained in order to carry out a responsible scholarly work or, even less, to work as an intellectual
(e.g. teacher).
[18:04] ori | president | Transcarpathian Hungarian Institute named after F. Rákóczi II
In Ukraine you can get a university degree( specialist degree) after 5 years only.
[18:06] mcpasztori | lecturer | Protestant Theological Institute Kolozsvar
It is very important to see that those who signed the Bologna Declaration were POLITICIANS, not university
teachers or scholars. So their priority was to make the education cheaper - the rest did not really matter.
[18:06] mcpasztori | lecturer | Protestant Theological Institute Kolozsvar
Well, unfortunately, that is about to change in Ukraine once the Bologna Process in forced upon you...
[18:08] kasa | professor | Babes-Bolyai Cluj
The danger can be in the case when in a multilingual university the majority have all the controls (in our country this
is the case). In this case they can ignore the desire of minority to have e. g. master programs.
In an unilingual university, even if this in a minority language, this danger cannot appears. In this case the minority
can decide on their programs, levels and so on. Mr. LNagy, the BBU vice-rector knows very well how difficult is to
manage the problems in our university. And the solutions are not always goods for the minority.
[18:24] iren | Full Professor | Faculty of Economics Subotica
WE will join the discussion about unsolved questions.
In Serbia if the faculty plans to open a major in Hungarian, it has to accreditate it. Even if the same, accredited major
exists in Serbian. It causes lots of problem, because of the material and financial conditions.
[18:34] lnagy | vicerector | Babes-Bolyai University
Fortunately in Romania this is different. We can start a program in Hungarian without any formality or accreditation
at Babes-Bolyai University, if that program exists in Romanian
[18:37] mstrubell | ex-director, Humanities degree programs | Universitat Oberta de Catalunya
The Universitat Oberta de Catalunya which was founded at the request of the government of Catalonia, is
recognized by the parliament of Catalonia, and whose degree courses, except for one (Degree in Multimedia Studies)
are recognized by the Spanish government. Nowhere in our requests for authorization of each degree is the language of
instruction asked for, or given.
[18:51] istvan | rector assistant | Transcarpathian Hungarian Institute named after F. Rákóczi
We like the idea of the conference and look forward to participating again.
[18:52] iren | Full Professor | Faculty of Economics Subotica
We would like to start a new idea.
In Serbia there is a law about the rights of students and their involvement in the decision making processes at the
faculty. But they do not have the opportunity to choose the language they would like to study on.
Is there a possibility for that in your state?
[18:59] kasa | professor | Babes-Bolyai Cluj
Students usually are very passive. Only a few of them have interest to discuss about their conditions, rights and so
on. In other country, as I know this is different, the students are more active. Maybe this situation is a reminiscent from
communist era.
[19:01] lnagy | vicerector | Babes-Bolyai University
In case of the Babes-Bolyai University: for the accreditation we do not give either the language of the tuition.
However, in our statistics sent to the government we give the number of students studying on different languages,
because financing is different: a student learning on Hungarian gets 1.5 times more financing, than one learning in
Romanian and this factor is 2 for somebody learning in German.
[19:03] kasa | professor | Babes-Bolyai Cluj
In another topic was recommended to create a discussion list (using yahoogroups), to continue the discussions even
after this on-line conference. I found it interesting. And also the idea of the real conference.
[19:03] Peter_Hantz | Secretary, Head of the Education Committee | Hungarian National Council of Transylvania
Just to return to the Bologna Process.
I've got a problem that does not affect only minority students.
I'm Theoretical Physicist and we teach Theoretical Physics in a different level for those that want to become research
scientists, and differently for those who do not want to perform further (eg. phd) studies.
The Bologna Process would require teaching the same things twice. I think it is less of any sense to teach once
again the same subjects in the Masters studies, in a higher level. For those who want to become
researchers, this is possible in the first years.
[19:05] iren | Full Professor | Faculty of Economics Subotica
In Serbia in the communist (Tito) era students were more active, free in discussion, sharing ideas. But in Milosevic
era especially the minorities were afraid, closed, passive.
Today if the minorities do not ask rights the majority would not give them. In Serbia there is no positive
discrimination for minorities.
[19:06] kasa | professor | Babes-Bolyai Cluj
But the money is used together, even if for Hungarian students the university gets much more money.
[19:07] bpalmada | Vicerectora de Docčncia | Universitat de Girona
We are planning to offer extra benefits to Erasmus students that accept to help us to improve the linguistic
knowledge of our students. We want to find a way to let them know the complexity of our situation together with the
opportunities that a 'complex situation' can bring to them.
[19:09] kasa | professor | Babes-Bolyai Cluj
To Peter: I think the situation described is a misunderstanding of the Bologna Process at the faculty level.
[19:13] ainhoa | postgraduate and european topisc manager | BASQUE SUMMER UNIVERSITY
In the Basque Country there have been some student movements against the Bologna Process, they don’t like the
ECTS system, nor the two cycles titulation...
I don't know what happens in your countries...
[19:18] iren | Full Professor | Faculty of Economics Subotica
In Serbia some students are afraid of Bologna process as well, because they will have fewer opportunities to go to
examination (only 2 exam period) and because they must take the subject once more if they do not pass the exam.
This is a difficulty for our students as nowdays in general they study a four year course for 7-8 years.
[19:21] mstrubell | ex-director, Humanities degree programs | Universitat Oberta de Catalunya
Iren: Where in the Bologna documents does it state that students "will have fewer opportunities to go to examination
(only 2 exam period)"?
Are you sure this is not just something that the government of Serbia has introduced in parallel with the Bologna
changes!
[19:24] Peter_Hantz | Secretary, Head of the Education Committee | Hungarian National Council of Transylvania
In Hungary and Romania there are no strong student movements against the Bologna Process.
[19:41] kasa | professor | Babes-Bolyai Cluj
To Iren: I think not the Bologna Process is culpable for the situation presented, but the ECTS. Interesting, in our
country the students are not against the credit system.
They consider useful, because they can repeat an exam without repeat the full year, as was before this system.
[19:42] iren | Full Professor | Faculty of Economics Subotica
In Serbia there were very liberal examination principles and this is why the Bologna process is not welcome.
[19:46] iren | Full Professor | Faculty of Economics Subotica
In a country where there are only few possibilities for employment, students are ready to study for a longer period.
They enjoy the advances of student life and do not take the responsibility for their own life.
But we think that for quality education there is a need for ECTS and Bologna Process.
[19:46] mstrubell | ex-director, Humanities degree programs | Universitat Oberta de Catalunya
My impression, Iren, and I may be wrong, is that the authorities in Serbia wanted to reduce the liberal exam
principles you mention, and that they used the Bologna process as a (good) excuse!
Fortunately, or not, I imagine this principle is applied at all universities, whatever their language!!
[19:48] kasa | professor | Babes-Bolyai Cluj
To Iren: Yes, it is very difficult to change the system. And the Bologna Declaration is quite wishing to do it. But the
advantages are more important. Maybe your students, when they will have more mobility, will change their mind. This
year we included in our CEEPUS programs (H-0081) even the Computer Science Department from your university in
Subotica.
[19:49] iren | Full Professor | Faculty of Economics Subotica
Dear Participants,
We would like to thank you for the discussion and a possibility to share ideas and experiences with you.
We would like to stay in touch with you. Our e-mail address: slavica@eccf.su.ac.yu
With best wishes Iren Gabrity Molnar and Agnes Slavic from Serbia