Religious Affiliation of Comics Book Characters
The Religious Affiliation of Comic Book Character
Wolverine
Logan, of the X-Men and the New Avengers
http://www.adherents.com/lit/comics/Wolverine.html
Wolverine is the code name of the Marvel Comics character who was
long known simply as "Logan." (Long after his introduction, the
character's real name was revealed to be "James Howlett.") Although
originally a relatively minor character introduced in The Incredible
Hulk #180-181 (October - November, 1974), the character eventually
became Marvel's second-most popular character (after Spider-Man).
Wolverine was for many years one of
Marvel's most mysterious characters,
as he had no memory of his earlier life
and the origins of his distinctive
Adamantium skeleton and claws. Like
much about the character, his religious
affiliation is uncertain. It is clear that
Wolverine was raised in a devoutly
Christian home in Alberta, Canada. His
family appears to have been Protestant,
although this is not certain. At least
into his teen years, Wolverine had a
strong belief in God and was a
prayerful person who strived to live by
specific Christian ethics and moral
teachings.
Above: Although Logan
(Wolverine) is not a Catholic, and
Nightcrawler (Kurt Wagner) is not
really a priest, Logan
nevertheless was so troubled by
his recent actions that he
informally sought absolution from
his old friend.
[Source: Wolverine, volume 3,
issue #6, page 18. Written by
Greg Rucka. Pencils by Darick
Robertson. Inks by Tom Palmer.
Reprinted in Wolverine: The
Brotherhood trade paperback,
Marvel Entertainment Group:
New York (2003).]
Over the many decades since he was a
child and youth in 19th Century
Alberta, Wolverine's character has
changed significantly. It is safe to say
that Wolverine, at his core, is now
something of a cynic and a skeptic.
Some fans characterize Wolverine as
an "atheist," but this may be an
oversimplification or a
misidentification with regards to the
character's current status.
Above: Logan
(Wolverine) prays at a
Shinto temple in Kyoto,
Japan.
[Source: Wolverine:
Soultaker, issue #2 (May
2005), page 6. Written by
Akira Yoshida, illustrated
by Shin "Jason"
Nagasawa; reprinted in
Wolverine: Soultaker,
Marvel Entertainment
Group: New York City
(2005).]
Above: Holding the
Bible, Wolverine prays in
a Christian church. [From
the "Nightcrawler"
episode of X-Men: The
Animated Series.]
Has Wolverine been an atheist? Yes, absolutely. Has he
identified himself as an atheist in the past? Yes. Is he an atheist today? That is a more difficult
question to answer. Currently, this question seems open to interpretation depending on the writer
or reader. On more than one occasion, Wolverine has been shown having experiences that led
him to have faith in "immaterial" and "metaphysical" phenomenon, including God and Heaven.
Wolverine has indeed expressed disbelief and frustration with God in isolated stories. For
example, Wolverine apparently briefly identified his theological position as an unbeliever in The
Uncanny X-Men during the Brood War saga in the 160s (circa 1983, but not #166). A story
delving into Wolverine's past showed how he became an atheist during World War II after his
girlfriend was killed by the villain Cyber. But Wolverine has certainly changed and developed,
while having many influential experiences and not a few theological dicussions, since then. For
example, Wolverine has actually been to Heaven. It is safe to say to say that Wolverine has been
an atheist in the past, but too many stories have established Logan as having found and practiced
religious faith to characterize the current character as an atheist.
Wolverine has spent considerable time in Japan, and has studied under some Japanese martial
arts masters. Wolverine has been shown praying in Buddhist and Shinto temples, and
participating in Buddhist ceremonies in both the comic books and animated adaptations of The
X-Men. But Wolverine is not known to practice Buddhism regularly nor is known to have ever
overtly identified himself as a Buddhist.
Furthermore, although it is far more common for religious Japanese to identify themselves as
Buddhists than Shintoists, it should be remembered that Wolverine's late fiance, Mariko Yashida,
was from a family that was overtly identified as Shintoist. (Various visual clues indicate the
Yashidas were also Buddhists, as is often the case in Japan.) Mariko worshipped the Shinto sun
goddess Amaterasu. Her cousin, Sunfire, is an acknowledged Shintoist. The wedding of Logan
and Mariko was to have been a Shinto wedding, as shown in Uncanny X-Men #170. However,
Wolverine should in no way be regarded as a Shintoist.
Wolverine has also been depicted praying in a Christian church and seeking advice and
absolution from his devout Catholic teammate Nightcrawler on religious topics.
Although Wolverine has never been portrayed as religiously devout or an orthodox member of
any organized religious denomination, he has frequently expressed sincere religious belief.
Indeed, his various experiences suggest that he has more reason to believe in God than nearly all
other Marvel comic book characters.
Wolverine has a highly developed personal sense of morality and ethics that seems to be of his
own devising, and not derived from any specific belief system. However, Japanese culture
(including Bushido and a Samurai sense of honor), as well as the teachings of Charles Xavier,
have been important influences in the formation of Logan's belief system. Another important
aspect of Wolverine's goals and personal code of ethics is his drive to regain and retain his
humanity in the wake of his transformation into a living weapon at the hands the Weapon X
program, the military/intelligence program which gave infused his skeleton with adamantium
and trained him as a deadly operative. Wolverine also works to keep his anger in check, lest he
slip into one of his deadly berserker rages.
Neither an atheist nor an orthodox religious believer, Wolverine may best be characterized as
one who struggles both with God and himself. He is rarely a static character, but seems always to
be on a journey toward self-improvement and personal redemption.
Above: Wolverine prays at a Shinto temple in Kyoto, Japan. [Source: Wolverine:
Soultaker, issue #2 (May 2005), pages 3-6. Written by Akira Yoshida, illustrated by
Shin "Jason" Nagasawa; reprinted in Wolverine: Soultaker, Marvel Entertainment
Group: New York City (2005).]
Wolverine is a hero not simply in the spandex-wearing, villain-fighting sense of the word. More
importantly, he is marked as a hero by his constant battle with himself to overcome an inherently
anti-social, violent, sinful, animal nature, while striving to live in a humanistic, spiritual, positive
way.
With regards to the specific question of whether Wolverine/Logan believes in God, a reader of
this website who has read every issue of Wolverine that has been published wrote that there have
been numerous issues in which Logan has had the opportunity to debate about God and religion
in general, always doing so with the sense that he believes God exists, although often wondering
about specific points of doctrine and ethical questions.
Notable among recent storylines was an issue in which he sought out Nightcrawler (Kurt
Wagner), an Catholic priest, to request last rites for a loved one who was dying in his arms. In
Wolverine, volume 3, issue #6, Wolverine sought to receive spiritual absolution from
Nightcrawler after feeling guilty about a recent with a particularly high death toll.
Wolverine is one of only a handful of characters in mainstream comics who is known to have
seen the afterlife. After he lost his Adamantium skeleton because of Magneto, Logan was on his
deathbed and was visited by Illyana Rasputin (a.k.a. "Magik," the sister of Colossus) in the
afterlife, and he begged her to let him come home to heaven, or wherever she was.
Below: Wolverine: Some things have to be taken on faith.
[Source: House of M: The Day After, published by Marvel Comics Group (2005), page 34; reprinted in XMen: The Day After trade paperback (2006); written by Chris Claremont, pencilled by Randy Green and
Aaron Lopresti, inked by Rob Hunter, Norm Rapmund and Don Hillsman III.]
Below: Not long after coming back from the dead, Colossus and Wolverine talk about coming back from
the dead. This scene shows that Wolverine is contemplative, or at least somewhat curious, about the
"afterlife," at least inasmuch as the deaths and returns of Colossus and Psylocke might tell him
something. Wolverine has not made up his mind about what he thinks the afterlife will be like. He is more
of a "skeptical seeker" than somebody who has embraced a particular answer or belief set.
When the typically more philosophical Colossus turns the tables slightly and asks Wolverine why he now
lives yet his sister is still dead, Wolverine isn't about to answer. Wolverine may be "the best he is at what
he does," but answering deep philosophical questions about life and death is not what he does.
[Source: House of M: The Day After, published by Marvel Comics Group (2005), page 34; reprinted in XMen: The Day After trade paperback (2006); written by Chris Claremont, pencilled by Randy Green and
Aaron Lopresti, inked by Rob Hunter, Norm Rapmund and Don Hillsman III.]
Text from scene above, which takes place the day after "M-Day," the day when the Scarlet
Witch's power caused most of the world's mutant population to be de-powered and turned into
normal humans instead of mutants. From House of M: The Day After, published by Marvel
Comics Group (2005), pages 33-34; reprinted in X-Men: The Day After trade paperback (2006);
written by Chris Claremont, pencilled by Randy Green and Aaron Lopresti, inked by Rob
Hunter, Norm Rapmund and Don Hillsman III:
Colossus: How many students are left, Logan?
Wolverine: Not a lot. Thirty, maybe. Y'know, Petey -- Magneto, Apocalypse, Sinister,
Sublime, even Cassandra Nova -- at their worst, none of 'em ever hurt us as badly as
this.
Colossus: What is wrong, tovarisch [Russian for: "friend"]?
Wolverine: Just feelin' my age. Usedta be, my life was a mystery. What I wanted
more'n anything, was t' know what I missed.
Colossus: Be careful what you wish for.
Wolverine: Yup.
Colossus: It's been ages since I sketched you . . .
Wolverine: Some other time.
Colossus: I brought beer.
Wolverine: What the hell.
Colossus: So much has changed since I've been gone. I fell like I've been standing
still.
Wolverine: You an' Psylocke both, back from the dead. Ever think to compare notes?
Colossus: For her, that transition was instantaneous. For me . . . day after endless day
of torment.
Wolverine: You look like you're coping.
Colossus: Tell me, Logan. Why am I alive and not my sister? Why do I have my
powers, when so many others have lost theirs?
Wolverine: How the hell should I know?
Colossus: Our cause seemed so simple when Professor Xavier explained it. And so . .
. just. Good guys and bad guys, who can argue with that? I remember when we fought
Proteus, who could turn the world to clay and twist it as he pleased. We found a way to
win. I found a way to destroy him.
Wolverine: What's yer point?
Colossus: I want to hit someone. I want to fight. But how can you fight something like
this?
Wolverine: Some things have to be taken on faith.
Colossus: And when that faith is lost?
Wolverine: Still workin' on that one.
Animated Wolverine: praying in church
In the X-Men animated TV series, an episode portrayed Wolverine converting from atheism to
belief in God. The episode, titled "Nightcrawler" (episode #44, Season 3, 13 May 1995),
introduced Kurt Wagner, the overtly Catholic Christian character of the same name.
Nightcrawler's strong faith in God caused Wolverine to question his own disbelief and find faith
in God. This may be one of the most religious, theology-laden episodes ever made in a
mainstream animated cartoon series. The episode is included in the DVD X-Men: The Legend of
Wolverine, which was widely distributed in video stores and other outlets. From: Steve Beard,
"Bamf! The gospel according to Nightcrawler", on Thunderstruck.org website
(http://www.thunderstruck.org/nightcrawler.htm; viewed 8 December 2005):
With the heightened popularity of the X-Men movies, a DVD collection of animated TV
episodes from the early 1990s has been released entitled X-Men: The Legend of Wolverine
(Buena Vista). It includes an entire episode devoted to the origin and theological disposition of
Nightcrawler.
The story takes place within a monastery in a small Bavarian village in Germany. Three of the
X-Men (Wolverine, Gambit, and Rogue) find themselves being aided by monks in the aftermath
of an avalanche. Having been mistaken for a demon by the townspeople because of his looks,
Nightcrawler explains to Wolverine and his friends that his genetic mutations were evident from
birth and that the villagers chased he and his mother of out of town.
His mom (Mystique) also abandoned him as a child (in the comics, she throws him over a
waterfall) and a family of travelling performers took him in. When he was young he was able to
work in the circus, but he was still treated as an outcast, "shunned and hated." In talking with
Wolverine, Nightcrawler says, "Though all people are flawed and struggle with the capacity for
sin, none likes to be reminded of our shared human weakness. My appearance does not make it
easy."
"Don't it make you crazy?" Wolverine asks with incredulity.
"It did once, but then I found peace by devoting my life to God," said Nightcrawler. "He directed
me to this place [the monastery] where they value the character of my heart, not my appearance."
This only sends Wolverine further into a rage. "What are you talking about? God gave up on us
long ago!" Nightcrawler counters, "No, my friend, God does not give up on his children-human
or mutant. He is there for us in our times of joy and to help us when we are in pain--if we let
Him."
Later, Nightcrawler tells Wolverine, "We are alike, you and I--angry at the world. My pain
drives me to seek God, yours drove you away." Wolverine is further infuriated when he asks
why God would have allowed him to be treated so badly. "Our ability to understand God's
purposes are limited," says Nightcrawler, "but take comfort in the fact that his love is limitless."
Amazingly, the episode concludes with Wolverine kneeling in a French cathedral reading the
Bible and saying, "I will give thanks to you O Lord. Though you are angry with me, your anger
is turned away and you have comforted me. I will trust you. I will not be afraid."
Not a bad message -- especially coming from a superhero.
From: Tom Keogh, editorial review of X-Men: The Legend of Wolverine DVD (1992), posted on
Amazon.com website (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000089G5M/002-81674730559256?v=glance&n=130; viewed 22 December 2005):
This animated anthology focuses on Wolverine's mysterious past and his heroic efforts at heavyduty anger management. "Out of the Past," parts 1 and 2, find Professor Xavier's most
challenging team member (real name: Logan) lured into a trap by former lover Lady
Deathstryke, who seeks nasty revenge for the unintended destruction of her scientist father.
Emotions run high and Logan's bad luck seems endless, but he is not without fellow-mutant
friends here. (These episodes tell us one version of how Wolverine's body gained its interior
metal frame.) "Nightcrawler" is an interesting variation on Frankenstein, in which Wolverine and
X-Men newcomer/cleric Nightcrawler are attacked by a mob of paranoid villagers. "The Lotus
and the Steel" finds Logan seeking inner peace at a Buddhist monastery in Japan, only to find
himself in a Seven Samurai-derived plot.
From: Scott C., review of X-Men: The Legend of Wolverine DVD (1992), posted on
Needcoffee.com website (http://www.needcoffee.com/html/dvd/xlowolverine.htm; viewed 22
December 2005):
[The episode titled] "Nightcrawler" introduces the bamf-producing mutant who made such a
splash in X-Men 2 and Brother Nightcrawler's faith in God and man makes Wolverine question
his own beliefs. And in "The Lotus and the Steel" Logan goes to a Buddhist temple in Japan to
work on his violent rages. Instead he has to confront a biker gang and a teleporting samurai bent
on extorting a small village.
From: "Even superpowers cannot save Western individualism: X-Men take up failed Liberal
integrationist strategy" (review of X-Men: The Legend of Wolverine animated DVD), posted on
movie review section of "Maoist Internationalist Movement" website
(http://www.etext.org/Politics/MIM/movies/long/xmenwolverine.html; viewed 22 December
2005):
One episode celebrates Christian monks and another Buddhism in Japan. In the dialogues, a
Christian with superpowers turned monk says that most people in the world believe in a God
who loves them, "can so many be wrong?" Wolverine says "God gave up on us," the mutants,
but in a later episode we see him praying in church after changing his mind.
Obviously the whole idea of X-Men appeals to the idea of people seeking special powers. Each
character has a special power, often lasers of some kind, the ability to fly and admantium claws
in the case of Wolverine. Each mutant character has a unique "special" power--in line with
Western individualism. We can only say that if people lived in a communist society after
perfecting the science and art of cooperation, they would not need to look like a Wolverine with
metal claws to feel "powerful" and nor would they stand in front of burning candles in churches
to feel "connected" Nor would humyns [humans] face the constant fighting that Wolverine
deplored in the Buddhist episode. Because workers do not control the means of production in
day-to-day life, they feel a lack of power and pine for the X-Men and similar artistic works to
make up for their alienation from power.
On the plus side, the farming and fishing toilers in Japan in the Buddhist episode do liberate
themselves from their humyn oppressors extorting "tribute" taxes. They only need Wolverine to
fight a similar superhero character on the other side... In the Christian episode and throughout,
there is an underlying mob distrust of mutants including the X-Men. The main political theme of
X-Men is the question of tolerance and getting along. In the Christian episode, X-Men have to
beat up some intolerant Amerikkkans [Americans] before these Amerikkkans realize they are
wrong about mutants. Instead of changing their ideas completely, the mob realizes it has
"sinned." Still it took a gang of mutants with superpowers to get the Amerikkkans to make peace
with their neighbors.
From: Jim Harvey, interview with Len Uhley (writer of "Nightcrawler" episode of X-Men: The
Animated Series), published in Toon Zone News in 2003, posted on Marvel Animation Age
website (; viewed 22 December 2005):
This interview was conducted by Jim Harvey for Toon Zone News in 2003. It is duplicated here
in it's entirety.
The new X-Men: The Legend of Wolverine DVD, from Buena Vista Home Video, is scheduled to
hit shelves on April 29, 2003. The DVD, a compilation of various X-Men: The Animated Series
episodes, features one episode focusing on a certain furry elf called Nightcrawler.
Toon Zone caught up with Len Uhley, the writer of "Nightcrawler," an episode featured on the
DVD. Uhley says he made sure that the animated version of Nightcrawler stayed close to the
comic book version, something he was interested in.
"I was more of a DC guy when I was a kid and reading comics," said Uhley. "However, then I
started doing research in order to write for the X-Men animated series, and I was immediately
taken with Nightcrawler's back-story. I campaigned shamelessly with Eric Lewald, the executive
story editor, to get a crack at him."
The topic of religion is always a controversial subject matter for any series, whether it be liveaction or animated. It turns out that dealing with such subject matter wasn't the difficult part for
Uhley, but finding enough time to fully explore it.
"Writing it was hard, not only because it is a highly personal and delicate subject, but also
because of the time constraints under which most TV animation is written," said Uhley. "I felt
this one was a Big Deal, and I didn't want to blow it, you know?
"As for censorship, I don't recall any at all," said Uhley. "In fact, it was quite the opposite. When
Lewald turned in our first draft of the outline, the Fox creative executive on the show, Sidney
Iwanter, was adamant. Iwanter said 'Don't beat around the bush. Where's God in all this? I want
to see them talking about a living, caring God!'
"I also heard from Lewald that Avery Coburn, in broadcast standards, told him, 'As long as
you've handled the topic with respect, we have no problem with it.' Of course, we were thrilled,"
said Uhley. "This all flew in the face of our usual jaded expectations, you know, that the
networks want to take the edge off everything. I will always be thankful to Iwanter for his
support and encouragement. And to Lewald, who let me have my head on the religious content.
He also did his usual skillful job amping up the action sequences, so hats off to him there as
well."
One aspect of the episode that raised eyebrows was Wolverine's views on religion. Stating that
he abandoned religion because of what happened to him in his past, Wolverine learns a powerful
lesson when he meets Nightcrawler and experiences his unique point of view.
"I don't think Wolverine 'found' religion, I think he was just reminded of the faith he'd
abandoned," said Uhley. "Remember, earlier in the episode, he said that he used to believe in
God, but no more, thank you very much, after all the horrors he had seen. And yet, there was
Nightcrawler, who certainly had cause to be bitter, looking at the world from a very different,
hopeful, faithful perspective.
"Kurt's extraordinary perspective gets to Wolverine, scrapes away some of his emotional scar
tissue, and opens him up to the possibility of a relationship with God," said Uhley, "His ending
up at a kneeling rail was just a 'baby step,' that's all."
Given the subject matter of the episode, it was expected a healthy amount of feedback would
arise. But when the "Nightcrawler" episode aired, the issue didn't garner as much attention as
anticipated.
"Most of the feedback was positive," said Uhley. "In one chat room, one fan objected to
Wolverine praying in a church, because he'd become a Buddhist in the comics or some such
thing. Otherwise, the show got very little attention outside of the core fan base. I even did a
search on the Internet, and came across one article in a tiny Christian magazine called
Cornerstone. Oh, and I gave a copy of the tape to some clergy I know, and they thought it was
well done. Otherwise, there was no publicity, no outcry, no anything. Maybe the DVD release
will stir up a little discussion, but I doubt it."
Looking back on the episode, Uhley is incredibly proud of "Nightcrawler." The episode did what
it set out to accomplish and turned out better than he could've imagined.
"I've always been proud of "Nightcrawler," because it was, I think, the first time that belief in
God had been openly discussed in a mainstream, Saturday morning animated series," said Uhley.
"I think that the production crew in this case did an especially fine job -- I remember that the
director, Larry Houston, really took extra care with it. They even got Nightcrawler's 'Bamf!'
right." "I later wrote another X-Men episode with a Nightcrawler guest appearance, called
'Bloodlines.' It also made passing reference to Nightcrawler's faith," said Uhley. "But it was more
of a traditional Marvel Universe tale detailing the tortured family ties among Nightcrawler,
Rogue, Mystique and, apparently, the entire defensive line of the Green Bay Packers. I don't
know if that's slated for release on DVD or not."
...Besides "Nightcrawler", X-Men: The Legend of Wolverine includes the two-part "Out of the
Past," "The Lotus and the Steel," and the bonus episode "The Final Decision." It will hit shelves
on April 29.
From: Paul O'Brien, review of Wolverine #175, on 28 April 2002 page "X-Reviews" website
(http://www.thexaxis.com/reviews/280402.html; viewed 26 December 2005):
Finally, we have another eight page story written by Jason Aaron, who is the winner of the
Wolverine writing contest. Udon are on art, and to be honest it isn't one of their stronger efforts,
with some stiff panels and inexpressive faces scattered throughout. Still, it tells the story well
enough.
Plotwise, I'm not sure quite what to make of this one. Wolverine is on the run from hunters with
dogs when he stops to change the tyre of a woman who talks to him about the bible. Aaron is
presumably trying to make some kind of point about Logan's attitude towards religion, and
unfortunately his take on the character is wildly out of line with mine. (I've always read him as
an atheist.) Leaving that aside, there are a couple of nice moments in here, but the story flounders
on plot mechanics which don't entirely make sense. Why, exactly, is a man on the run from a
pack of dogs and a group of shotgun-wielding psychos stopping off to change a tyre? The set-up
doesn't provide an adequate rationale for the situation Aaron is aiming for.
Nonetheless, definite points for effort, since it's at least trying to illustrate a character point, and
if nothing else it's better than the lead story.
Sample scenes illustrating Wolverine's early Christian upbringing
Below: Wolverine's early Christian upbringing is evident in this scene, as he prays to the Lord while trying
to evade an unusually bestial Hank McCoy. After the villainous telepath Cassandra Nova has used her
own powers (and the powers of Emma Frost) to revert Wolverine's mental state to how he was as a child
growing up in 19th Century Alberta, Canada. [Source: Astonishing X-Men #16, published by Marvel
Comics (October 2006), page 5; reprinted in Astonishing X-Men, Vol. 3: Torn (2006); written by Joss
Whedon, art by John Cassaday.]
Wolverine's prayer, from scene above:
Wolverine: Oh, Lord, I am heartily sorry for having offended thee and for any wrongs I
have done in your sight including that dream I had about the chambermaid that spoilt
my bedlinens but if you would please please make that moose creature not find me I will
be virtuous always and give much more thought to good deeds and helping poor people
unless you don't like them for some reason and that's why they're poor.
I'm in a tree. Quite high up, in fact. I climbed the tree rather readily -- and I'm hardly
winded from all the running about. This mortal terror does wonders for the lungs, I
should remember that for later. Dear Lord, let there be a later.
Below: Wolverine's early Christian upbringing is further evident in this scene. Wolverine's mind is still
reverted to his teenage self when he meets the "Armor," a Japanes student at the Xavier Institute. In
response to Wolverine speaking in a way that is clearly out of character for his usual self, Armor says
something in Japanese. The contemporary adult Wolverine speaks fluent Japanese, but he doesn't
understand her now because his mind is operating as if he was back in his teen or pre-teen years.
Wolverine refers to her Japanese utterance as "heathen funny talk." The word "heathen" is one he
learned while growing up in a Christian home in 19th Century Alberta to refer to non-Christians. His
teenage mind here assumes that Armor's non-English (and clearly non-French) speech and foreign
appearance marks her as a non-Christian "heathen." [Source: Astonishing X-Men #17, published by
Marvel Comics (November 2006), page 15; reprinted in Astonishing X-Men, Vol. 3: Torn (2006); written by
Joss Whedon, art by John Cassaday.]
A sample theological discussion between Wolverine and Nightcrawler
Wolverine, volume 3, issue #6 features one of numerous comics in which Nightcrawler's
religiosity is an important part of the story, and one of many stories in which Nightcrawler's deep
faith is contrasted with Wolverine's relative lack of faith and religious understanding. This story
takes place at a what is a relatively low point for Nightcrawler, religiously speaking. This is not
long after he has abandoned his preparation to become a priest, due to the mechanations of a
supervillain. Yet, despite that, Nightcrawler is still clearly a deeply religious and deeply
principled character.
Below are some excerpts of the dialogue from this story, written by Greg Rucka and penciled by
Darick Robertson. This discussion between Nightcrawler and Wolverine takes place in a New
York City bar, where Wolverine has invited Nightcrawler to meet him after Wolverine's latest
particularly soul-wrenching adventure:
Nightcrawler walks into the bar, where Wolverine is already sitting. Nightcrawler is using
his image inducer to appear as a Catholic priest, complete with white collar and black
shirt.
BARTENDER: Can I help you, father?
KURT WAGNER: A beer, please
LOGAN: Make it a pitcher and three glasses. Put it on my tab.
KURT WAGNER: Thank you, my son.
LOGAN: Knock it off.
[Kurt moves to place his hand on Logan's shoulder in either a consoling or greeting
gesture.]
LOGAN: And don't think about touching me unless you're gonna look like you when you
do it, Elf.
KURT WAGNER: I'm not certain that's the best idea, my friend. You know how people
reat to my appearance.
LOGAN: Jo!
BARTENDER: Show the "Father" your right hand.
LOGAN: Your hand, Jo.
BARTENDER: Always wanted to play show and tell with a priest.
KURT WAGNER: Ah, you don't-BARTENDER: It's all right, Father . . . I won't lead you into temptation. [The bartender
shows her right hand, which is clearly the hand of a mutant. She has a squid-like or
octopus-like suction surface on the palm of her right hand, and her fingers are shaped
somewhat like tentacles.] I'll have Brady get you boys some peanuts. [She walks away,
to give Kurt and Logan some privacy.]
LOGAN: There you go, Elf. No more excuses. [Logan is letting Kurt know that he does
not need to use his image inducer to mask his mutant appearance.]
[Kurt touches a device concealed in his belt, and drops the hologram mask that made
him look like a normal human priest. Now he appears as his regular furry blue self. He is
not wearing a priest's vestments, but is wearing simply a regular shirt and blue jeans.]
KURT WAGNER: Better?
LOGAN: Better is you not having to hide yourself. But it's a start.
KURT WAGNER: You're in a mood.
LOGAN: Has nothing to do with it.
KURT WAGNER: No. Of course not.
[After some small talk, not excerpted here...]
KURT WAGNER: What happened?
LOGAN: Nothing happened.
KURT WAGNER: Certainly something did. You're even more unpleasant than normal.
And you could use a shower, I might add.
LOGAN: You think I don't know how I smell? You think I don't know?
KURT WAGNER: Self-loathinig does not become you, Logan.
LOGAN: This from a guy who hides his face?
BARTENDER: You want me to just run a tube from the keg for you?
LOGAN: Can you do that?
BARTENDER: I'll look into it.
LOGAN: What?
KURT WAGNER: She likes you.
LOGAN: That's her mistake.
KURT WAGNER: [Long pause.] What was her name?
LOGAN: What?
KURT WAGNER: The girl who died. The one you couldn't save. What was her name?
LOGAN: Lucy. Lucy Braddock. She was seventeen, Kurt.
KURT WAGNER: Is it working? The beer? Must be hard to punish yourself when your
healing factor fights you every inch of the way.
LOGAN: You have no idea.
KURT WAGNER: Yet here you are, doing your best impression of a fish. We have both
seen innocents suffer before, my friend. We have both seen the inhumanity of man to
his fellow man. Why is Lucy Braddock so different that you drive across the country for
three days without rest to meet me here, and to engage in this vain attempt to torture
your liver?
[Logan says nothing.]
KURT WAGNER: Seventeen is too young, I agree. Seventy, some would say, is too
young as well. We have both seen too much death, lost too many we have cared for.
But as trite as it is to say, Logan, death is part of life. Even unnatural death, even,
perhaps, murder.
LOGAN: Not murder.
KURT WAGNER: You think? I do not advocate it, of course, but I would point out that
every Judeo-Christian religion has murder in the basic text. Cain slew Abel, and thus
the world knew murder. One could argue that murder is as natural as dying of old age.
LOGAN: You don't really believe that.
KURT WAGNER: I am no longer sure what I believe, my friend. My grasp of ethical and
theological theory is slipping, to say the least. As a result, I am forced more often than
not to rely on the facts as I know them. Actions always speak louder than words. You
know this better than anyone. Your actions have always mrked you, to me, as a good
man. As an honorable man.
[Long pause.]
LOGAN: Three days ago I killed twenty-seven men.
[Kurt stares, speechless.]
LOGAN: Not much to say to that, huh, Elf?
KURT WAGNER: You were enraged?
LOGAN: All the way to the bone.
KURT WAGNER: And these men, they had earned this rage?
LOGAN: You're looking for an excuse.
KURT WAGNER: No, my friend, I'm straining to understand. Because if you tell me that
these twenty-seven men were innocents all, then you are everything you have always
feared yourself to be. And you would have to be stopped.
LOGAN: And you'd stop me?
KURT WAGNER: No. But I would die trying.
[A long pause as they stare at each other grimly.]
LOGAN: They were a cult. They'd broken a town. Made it afraid. They kidnapped
women. Girls. And they used them up.
KURT WAGNER: Then you are describing evil, my friend. And evil begets evil.
LOGAN: Me.
KURT WAGNER: Ah, I see. If that is your question, Logan, I cannot help you.
LOGAN: You were a priest. Absolve me.
KURT WAGNER: Oh, it would be wonderful if it worked like that, wouldn't I? What a
world we would have . . . legions of sinners, all committing their crimes with abandon!
Safe in the knowledge that absolution was just one quick trip to the church away! They
tried it once, you know. During the Middles Ages [sic]. Enough gold, you could be
forgiven anything. Would you like that? Such a hollow forgiveness?
LOGAN: Do I need forgiveness?
KURT WAGNER: Isn't that what you're after? Were those men evil? Without question?
By killing them in your rage, are you evil? You are unique, Logan. And I do not speak of
what has been done to you. Is the wolf evil when it culls the sickness from the herd?
[The bartender flips a sign on the door to show the bar is closed. Logan puts cash on
the bar to pay his tab. Kurt and Logan walk out of the bar and stand in pouring rain.]
LOGAN: That thing about wolves . . . I'm not an animal. I'm not.
KURT WAGNER: I know, my friend. I know you aren't.
LOGAN: . . . I'm not . . .
[End of this issue]
From The Uncanny X-Men #165:
Logan: "What's doin', bub?"
Kurt: "What does it look like?"
Logan: "Incongruous. I guess I never figured you for the religious type."
Kurt: "Why, don't I look the part? I admit I'm rarely seen in a church - but I draw comfort from
my beliefs and from prayer. Such comfort is dearly needed now - by us all. You should try it,
Logan. Who knows, you might like it."
Logan: "I did, in the army. A mistake. I believe in nothin' - never have, never will. What matters
is what I can see, hear, smell, taste, thouch - tangible things, physical things. Reality. The rest is
imagination."
Nightcrawler: "And you have no use for that?"
Wolverine: "Nope."
Nightcrawler: "I am sorry, my friend. I never realized how utterly, inescapably alone you must
be - with nothing to hold onto but yourself. More alone than I - despite my outre appearance could ever be."
Wolverine: "I ain't alone, bub - I got you. C'mon, lessee if they got any brew on this bucket."
From: Radford, Bill, "Holy Superhero! Comic books increasingly making reference to faith",
published in Colorado Springs Gazette, 6 May 2006
(http://www.gazette.com/display.php?secid=20; viewed 8 May 2006):
"I think when I go to superheroes, I see there is a religious metaphor to begin with," says comicbook writer Steven T. Seagle. That metaphor is most obvious with Superman, he says.
"He's the one who's better than us. He's more moral than us. He's more pure than us. He makes
better choices than us, and therefore he is an example in a way that God or Christ is an example."
Generally, though, comic book characters aren't as simple or pure as they once were. Consider
Marvel's Punisher, who exacts deadly vengeance, or Wolverine, who erupts in fits of animal
rage.
From: Soleine Leprince, "Discussing the origins of religious belief" in Daily Princetonian, 13
March 2007 (http://www.dailyprincetonian.com/archives/2007/03/13/opinion/17697.shtml;
viewed 23 April 2007):
Even comic-book heroes are painted as religious: Suppositions have been made that Superman
Methodist, Spiderman is Protestant, The Thing is Jewish... and Daredevil is Catholic. As for
Wolverine, he seems to be a former atheist who turns Buddhist.
Discussion
From: "Religious Affiliations of the Superheroes", posted 18 June 2006 on "Street Prophets"
blog website (http://www.streetprophets.com/story/2006/6/18/11384/1397; viewed 20 June
2006):
Elizabeth D on Sun Jun 18th, 2006 at 09:57:13 PDT:
I thought Wolverine as a Buddhist was odd too, but then I thought of the Shaolin Monks and
wondered if maybe Buddhism is a way for the character to try to practice his fighting talents in a
disciplined and ethical way?
appleblossombeck on Sun Jun 18th, 2006 at 11:06:31 PDT:
On Wolverine and Buddhism. Or anybody and anything, for that matter. There are very few
characters who are acknowledged to be adherents of any one religion. Magneto, Nightcrawler
and Kitty Pryde being among the few examples. For these characters, like a lot of humans, their
faith or former faith is a part of their identity. To change this would be to change the character.
With characters who have no known faith, writers get a lot of leeway in showing the character
involved in ceremonies, prayer, or questioning. Wolverine, due to his international nature, is one
of the great examples of this. I bet I could go through my comics collection and find an instance
of him either showing knowledge of or asking about pretty much every major religion. To the list
in the article, I can add his knowledge of Canadian First Nations beliefs, as seen in his various
interactions with Snowbird, Wendigo, and Shaman from Alpha Flight. Logan's Origin story
showed his family to have no contact with clergy or involvement with a church. I think his
involvement with Buddhism is that he respects it and greatly desires the peace he sees in that
path, but he doesn't believe himself capable of finding that peace. That's part of the great
poignancy of his character: his constant and unending search for peace and his own humanity.
From: Rebecca Salek, "Spirituality In Comics", on "Sequential Tart" website
(http://www.sequentialtart.com/archive/dec03/tth_1203.shtml; viewed 5 January 2006):
For many people. December is a month which contains celebrations of religious, spiritual or
cultural significance. For many people. December is a month which contains celebrations of
religious, spiritual or cultural significance. In recognition of that, this month the Tarts pick out
what they consider to be the best representations of spirituality in comic books...
Susan: I think the most touching thing I saw, that has stayed in my memory for years now, is a
page in -- let me see if I can recall correctly -- an X-Men issue from the 1980s. They're out in
Shi'ar space, desperate straits, et cetera. Wolverine walks by Nightcrawler's cabin and sees him
on his knees, praying. There is a small discussion of his faith. That little scene has stuck with me
more than Jean Grey sacrificing herself on the moon. My point was, they didn't dwell on it, didn't
seem to try to make it all moralizing and hokey. It was very, well, matter-of-fact. And all the
more touching for that. Especially considering the two characters involved. Wolverine would be
the last person you would expect to respect someone's faith. Kurt's calm avowal of faith is not
preachy, he's just saying what he believes. It illustrated that there's always things we don't know
about people, even those we are close to. And that not all religious people are fanatics.
From: "'X-men' comic books and movie tackle Christianity" forum discussion started 11 April
2003 on IIDB Secular Community Forums website
(http://www.iidb.org/vbb/archive/index.php/t-50750.html; viewed 12 July 2007):
Bobzammel
April 11, 2003, 05:36 PM
Anybody been reading recent issues of this comic? ... "Wolverine" likewise had the title
character battle crooked priests last summer.
It looks like the movie might also deal with this -- a quick glance at the trailer will show the
characters in a church.
Any thoughts on this?
Brahma's atheist
April 12, 2003, 04:24 AM
I remember from the cartoon The X-men were in Europe being attacked by good Christian
peasants. In the end X-men win. Wolverine got the worst of it but at the end he went to the
church and prayed. I found that really annoying.
My impression, which may be wrong, is that because these things are really aimed at kids the
powers that be are going to push the 'Christianity is ultimately good' line.
Walross
April 13, 2003, 02:53 AM
That is annoying. I remember being really impressed with a particular issue where the X-Men
were fighting Dracula (dumb idea, yes I know) and Wolverine tried to use a cross on him.
Dracula just laughed and swatted him aside explaining that it didn't work because Wolverine
didn't believe in god. I remember thinking "can Wolverine get any cooler?"
Bobzammel
April 13, 2003, 03:06 PM
Wolverine #175 also had a recent battle in which a Christian widow was murdered in the
crossfire during a fight with Wolverine. Wolverine stated he was probably going to hell.
Another element is that Marvel has it's own "gods" and "devils"... apart from Thor and his ilk
there are cosmic beings like Infinity, Eternity Chaos and Order, (and also to an extent Galactus),
and demons such as Mephisto, Hellstrom, Ghost Rider, etc...
From: "Catholic Clix - Comic info needed!" forum discussion started 3 May 2003 on HCRealms
website (http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-40338.html; viewed 24 May
2007):
thornnspear
05/03/2003, 21:04
Ok, so in recent films it's been apparent that Daredevil and Nightcrawler are Catholic...
So, who else out there could be fielded in a "Catholic" Heroclix team?
Valandar
05/04/2003, 18:23
...without a doubt, Gambit would be agnostic if anything, due to his constant self-reliance and
willingness to compromise his morals (Sinister, anyone?). If he wasn't, then he'd also be a
hypocrite. Wolverine is an Atheist with occasional doubts. And Thor isn't so much Catholic, as
much as he knows there are greater powers than he and his kind...
Me, I'm agnostic, but more power to you if you have faith in anything at all. As long as you don't
try to ram it down my throat, that is.
From: "X-Men and Religion" forum discussion page, started 21 August 2005, on ComixFan.com
website (http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/forums/archive/index.php/t-35318.html):
Thaddeus Hettle
Aug 21, 2005, 10:10 pm
Wolverine became an atheist after Cyber killed his girlfriend back during WWI.
Anybody remember the episode of the old X-Men cartoon where the met Nightcrawler? He was
all like, "turn to God for--" and then Wolvie knocks over a candelabra and yells "THERE IS NO
GOD!"
From: "Superman as Christian Allegory? The religion of Comics" message board started 14 June
2006 on Military.com website
(http://forums.military.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/672198221/m/8000028270001/p/2; viewed 20
June 2006):
BlindSword
Wolverine spent considerable time in Japan, even marrying a couple of Japanese women, and has
been seen in prayer in both Shinto and Buddhist Temples.
Excerpts from: "Are Superheroes Religious?" forum page, started 13 May 2004, in "The John
Byrne Forum" section of the Byrne Robotics website (http://jb.247intouch.com/forum/get_topic.asp?FID=3&TID=558&DIR=P; viewed 9 January 2006):
Kevin Bennett
14 May 2004 at 5:28 am
I enjoy it when a character's faith (or lack of it) is explored. Done properly, it can enrich
characterization and be a powerful dramatic tool. I recall a long ago scene in X-Men when they
were fighting the Brood where the atheist Wolverine and the Christian Nightcrawler had a brief
discussion about faith, and I really liked the issue from around the same period in which the XMen were battling Dracula. Wolverine attempts to make the sign of the Cross, but it has no effect
on the vampire because he isn't a believer. However, Nightcrawler's cross works, and Dracula
also burns his hand on Kitty's Star of David necklace when he grabs her.
From: "The Nightcrawler as a Roman Catholic Superhero FAQ" message board started 18
December 2005 on "Nightscrawlers" website
(http://www.nightscrawlers.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=5447; viewed 3 June 2006):
chicory
posted on 14/3/06 at 21:25
I love what Nightcrawler's spirituality and religion give to the character - and those moments,
like the conversation with the Logan after the brood encounter and the power that the cross and
the star of david had when wielded by a person of faith were high moments.
The animated episode though really got on my nerves when I saw it recently. (It was nice being
able to catch X-men at the convenient 11:30pm time slot whenever I remembered too - which I
now think wasn't often enough since they replaced it with Power Rangers )
But, I preferred the subtle message offered in the comics to the heavy-handed way they did the
animated story. Like on the brood ship Logan, who's lived a long time and seen a lot and
possibly lost his faith a long time ago is allowed to keep his own religious beliefs. (That was a
great exchange where Kurt tells Logan he can't imagine how lonely he must be and then Logan
just replies that he has Kurt and then suggests they go and find some beer . Very subtle.
I didn't like how in the cartoon it's all presented as though there's only one correct way to think
and one place to be in that way of thinking. With Jubilee and then the end where Rogue finds
Wolverine in the church playing.
I'm not sure why that bothered me so much. I thought that Nightcrawler's place worked for him
in the monastery - I just didn't like how the other characters reacted to his "message" I guess...
From: "Religious Inclinations of heroes" message board, started 1 March 2005 on
StarDestroyer.net website (http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic.php?t=63632; viewed 8 June
2006):
lgot
Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2005 11:49 pm
Wolverine also proclaims to not trust any God to save him but he does not disbelieve him. Which
is pretty much the best logic possible in DC and Marvel also, because the existense of God(s)
there is without doubt.
From: "Religious Beliefs of Marvel Characters" discussion board started 20 October 2004 on
Comic-Forum.com website (http://www.comicforum.com/marvel/Religious_beliefs_of_Marvel_characters_397905.html; viewed 8 June 2006):
Date: 20 Oct 2004 21:55:56
From: OSinner1
Subject: Religious beliefs of Marvel characters?
Does anybody know the religious beliefs of various characters?
Date: 21 Oct 2004 01:45:45
From: JWMeritt
Trick question! There ARE Gods that are Marvel characters. One blatantly obvious: A vampire
is repelled by religious symbols...
...The few times it [religion] has played a role is when Wolvie made a cross in front of Dracula,
who was suprised by its non-effect (it was wielded by a nonbeliever), and Nightcrawler took the
cross away from Wolvie and seared Drac big time. And then Drac was burned on Kittie's Star of
David. And of course the Vamp that sputtered out on Thor's hammer...
Date: 22 Oct 2004 14:06:41
From: Del
Out of interest, are there any comic characters, mainstream or otherwise, that are unbelievers?
And if so, how do they tend to be depicted?
Date: 23 Oct 2004 10:08:27
From: Matt Deres
The one that comes to mind first is Wolverine, since he explicitly stated his position in UXM
[Uncanny X-Men] 166 (I think) during the Brood wars. He has a brief discussion with
Nightcrawler, whom he had found praying. Kurt said he felt sorry for Logan, since he (Kurt) is
never truly alone since he has God.
The excerpts below are from a newsgroup discussing, among other topics, the scene in which the
Reverend William Conovor appeared to heal Wolverine from a Brood infection through the
power of his (Reverend Conover's) Christian faith in God. Did Rev. Conover actually use his
Christian faith to heal Wolverine, or did Wolverine say nothing to contradict this supposition,
and thus allow the Christian clergyman to believe this is what happened? Also, Wolverine's
status as an "atheist" is mentioned briefly. From: "Claremont's 'Revenge' / CC Trademarks"
thread on rec.arts.comics.marvel.xbooks newsgroup
(http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.comics.marvel.xbooks/browse_thread/thread/b6c76ad3
9ebedbac/82cfea80ebc7bade; viewed 12 June 2006):
From: Samy Merchi
Date: Mon, May 11 1998 12:00 am Also note that it is more often than most atheistic characters
mention their atheism. Atheism is not supported any more than any religion. The whole issue is
simply avoided in books.
From: Johan Lundstrom
Date: Tues, May 12 1998 12:00 am
Right. Wolverine and Magneto are by far the most outspoken atheists, and even they rarely
mention it.
From: Tim Elf
Date: Mon, May 11 1998 12:00 am
re: "Does anyone have any other instances of positive (or negative) portrayals of religion in
comics?"
Positive: Glory Day Ministries, the preacher and his wife tied into the Brood saga, introduced by
Claremont, but really developed by John Ostrander in the X-Men/Brood LS. An excellent
example of a postive, fair portrayal of Christianity in comic books.
From: Samy Merchi
Date: Mon, May 11 1998 12:00 am
...Rev Conover's been mentioned several times: He pushed a Brood embryo into submission with
the power of God.
From: Johan Lundstrom
Date: Tues, May 12 1998 12:00 am
We can't be sure; the scene was deliberately ambigous. It could have been a miracle or just
Wolverine's healing factor finally catching up.
From: Samy Merchi
Date: Wed, May 13 1998 12:00 am
Yes, well, it's possible to read it that way. Personally, I always read it as Claremont attributing
power to God, but not wanting to be obvious about it and therefore possibly offend people of
other religions by implying that the Christian God was the real one.
From: Bigbear
Date: Wed, May 13 1998 12:00 am
I just reread that issue the other night and I definitely got the impression that Logan's healing
factor caught up and fought off the Brood embryo. His healing factor was already working on
fighting it off before he confronted the Rev. Then he went all Brood-y for a bit before his healing
factor kicked into overdrive and got rid of the foul thing. When the Rev thought it was a power
from god I don't think Logan said anything otherwise because he didn't want to take anything
away the guy's faith.
That was a very good issue IMO [in my opinion]. He was supposed to go work towards easing
mutant/human relations. He was definitely going to be a high profile muntant rights human. Was
he ever heard from again? It would nice to have one of the books touch on that. They could say
that he's been an active member of Chuck's underground or something.
From: "The religions of comic book characters" thread started 10 February 2001 on
rec.arts.comics.marvel.universe newsgroup
(http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.comics.marvel.universe/browse_thread/thread/13590fda
80c5d6e1/e5e0b094ced80f0b; viewed 12 June 2006):
From: Terry McCombs
Date: Sat, Feb 10 2001 6:35 pm
For the most part you don't get much of an idea as to the private lives of most comic book
characters. Marvelish soap opera not withstanding.
What I mean is you don't get much of an idea what their politics or religion might be. This is
sensible enough I guess as they don't want to offend any of their customers... for the most part
you just can't really say just what, if any religion or personal philosophy that or that comic
character might follow.
What do you think?
From: Menshevik
Date: Sun, Feb 11 2001 6:05 am
...As far as Marvel is concerned, there are a few characters where you do: ...Religious issues did
show up quite a bit in the X-Men, with Catholics Nightcrawler and Gambit, the Native American
heritage of Moonstar and Forge, the rather hazy goddess apparently worshipped by Storm,
Wolfsbane's Scottish Presbyterianism, Cannonball's not specified church (not exactly specified,
but Protestant and possibly verging or belonging to a fundamentalist denomination), and Kitty
Pryde's very secularized Judaism. Colossus was, judging by some of his conversations with Kurt,
raised as a well-behaved Communisit atheist, and Wolverine is a proudly-proclaimed agnostic.
From: "Up, up, and oy, vey!", posted 5 February 2006 on MetaFilter.com website
(http://www.metafilter.com/39326/Up-up-and-oy-vey; viewed 19 June 2007):
...By the way, Marvel apparently recognized early on that its original books had been too
whitebread. All five of the original X-Men [Cyclops, Iceman, the Beast, Angel and Jean
Grey/Marvel Girl] were WASPs ["White Anglo-Saxon Protestants"], but when they revived the
book in the 1970's, the new team members (Havok, Colossus, Nightcrawler, Storm, Wolverine,
Thunderbird, Banshee and Sunfire) were WASP, German Catholic, African Pagan, Canadian,
Native American, Irish Catholic, and Japanese, respectively...
posted by Asparagirl at 8:14 PM on February 5
From: "Religion of the X-Men" message board started 15 May 2005 on Comic Book Resources
website (http://forums.comicbookresources.com/archive/index.php/t-58362.html; viewed 13 June
2006):
Emerald Ghost
05-15-2005, 05:56 PM
Do you ever wonder what religion an X-Man is? I know they are just characters, but still, just for
the fun of it.
I am wondering if you could guess their religion by their character, or what they've said, etc.
Jesse Newcomb
05-15-2005, 06:53 PM
...Magma worships the Roman gods so she's a pagan. We know that Alex is raised as a
Catholic... Storm worships her goddess. And Logan worship nothing...
The Lucky One
05-15-2005, 07:38 PM
...As for [other] characters...
Jean Grey - some branch of Christianity...
Archangel - Protestant
Havok - Catholic, apparently
Nightcrawler - Catholic, devout
Colossus, Magik - atheist (or now perhaps simply agnostic)
Storm - pagan
Wolverine - atheist (but has been to Heaven, plus seen power of cross wielded by faithful
[Nightcrawler] repel Dracula)
Kitty Pryde, Sabra - Jewish
Cannonball - Southern Baptist
Karma, Sunspot - Catholic
Wolfsbane - Scots Presbyterian
Mirage - Cheyenne, plus some Asgard, presumably
Magma - Roman-Greco gods
Cypher - Some branch of Christianity
The Fury
05-16-2005, 02:11 AM
...I agree with all this.
From: "Religion and X-Men" thread started 21 July 1998 on rec.arts.comics.marvel.xbooks
newsgroup
(http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.comics.marvel.xbooks/browse_thread/thread/b61ff5d2e
422d0a5/1ebe80a26a7df2e5; viewed 13 June 2006):
From: Alan D. Earhart
Date: Tues, Jul 21 1998 12:00 am
When has religion been used as a plot device in an xbook? [i.e., a comic book series related to
the X-Men]
From: Ed Hebert
Date: Tues, Jul 21 1998 12:00 am
...there was the "cross to bear" thing between Maggott and Wolverine in X-Men #75. I don't
know if it counts as a religious theme, for many men, during Roman times, had to carry the cross
they were to be crucified on. However, the story of Jesus' last moments would be the most
popular reference to get this metaphor from.
From: AGr3691541
Date: Wed, Jul 22 1998 12:00 am
...Nightcrawler is discovered praying by Wolverine in the Brood storyline circa [Uncanny XMen] 160-something, and Wolverine is shocked, saying he can only believe what his senses tell
him...
From: "(OFFTOPIC) Sleepwalker and a RANT!" thread started 9 April 1996 on
rec.arts.comics.marvel.xbooks newsgroup
(http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.comics.marvel.xbooks/browse_thread/thread/530027d0
2cbeb884/7c688dd20f2f433c; viewed 13 June 2006):
From: Brian
Date: Wed, Apr 10 1996 12:00 am
Say, this [religious affiliations of the X-Men] would be a neat thread. My memory doesn't really
remember a lot of the X-Men having stated a religion... Anyone know any issues where a XMember professed his/her religion?
From: Blase Martin Louis
Date: Thurs, Apr 11 1996 12:00 am
...Wolverine is an acknowledged atheist...
From: Sarah Anne Yost
Date: Fri, Apr 12 1996 12:00 am
...Wolvie doesn't believe in what he can't see or touch or cut (see the Brood saga)...
From: Chris Well, "Comic Book Faith", posted 13 June 2006 on "Learning Curve" blog website
(http://chriswellnovelist.blogspot.com/2006/06/comic-book-faith.html; viewed 14 June 2006):
Beliefnet has an interesting piece [link to:
http://www.beliefnet.com/features/comicbookfaith.html] on the religious affiliation of various
comic book characters, with links to essays that use actual story instances to make each case. The
roundup includes Superman (Methodist), Wolverine (Buddhist) and The Thing (Jewish), among
others.
From: Mirtika, "Is Superman a Methodist?", posted 15 June 2006 on "Mirathon" blog website
(http://mirathon.blogspot.com/2006/06/is-superman-methodist.html; viewed 15 June 2006):
Is Superman Jewish, Methodist, or a Christ figure? Newsweek is examining the matter.
A discussion on this has popped up on the Christian Fandom mail list. And I came across the
subject over at GetReligion.
So, I offer this nifty assemblage of charts and lists and links on comic book religion found at
Adherents.com.
They list Wolverine as "former atheist, has practiced Buddhism, believes in God." Ben "The
Thing" Grimm is Jewish. You already know about Nightcrawler and Catholicism. But... Rogue is
Southern Baptist?
When you're done with the superhero list, peruse the list of supporting (non-superhero)
characters and the list of villains. Lex Luthor is, apparently, a Nietzschean atheist, and Pyro is a
lapsed Catholic.
Personally, I'd love to see the whole batch of X-Men get born-again and baptized in a megaissue, artwork by John Cassiday and story by Chris Well.
From: "X-Men religious affiliations" thread started 1 June 2002 on
rec.arts.comics.marvel.xbooks newsgroup
(http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.comics.marvel.xbooks/browse_thread/thread/78e6830d
00083d2f/102a03cd2dab9fda; viewed 13 June 2006):
From: Chris Dodson
Date: Sat, Jun 1 2002 9:38 pm
I'm looking for information on the religious beliefs of all the current X-Men for a story I'm
submitting to Marvel. The only one I know for sure is Nightcrawler (Catholic). I get the
impression that Wolverine is an atheist or agnostic, but I have no in-comic evidence to support
this. Any help you guys could give me would be greatly appreciated. Also, in your responses,
could you provide titles and issue numbers of the comics in which the information is stated?
Thanks.
From: Tom Warren
Date: Sat, Jun 1 2002 9:49 pm
I believe that Kitty Pride is Jewish. The issue where they fight Dracula had a bit about this in
there. And Wolvie is atheist probably, or some pagan type.
From: Nichol
Date: Sun, Jun 2 2002 2:58 am
I seem to recall an issue where Wolverine and Kitty were fighting vampires. She fended them off
using her Star of David, but Wolverine made a cross with his claws and had vampires all over
him. The point was that a wearer's faith in a religious artifact protected them, not the artifact
itself. Wolverine had no faith in the cross, so therefore it did nothing. That seems to be a clear
hint that he's atheist, agnostic, or something else besides Christian.
From: Brian Doyle
Date: Sun, Jun 2 2002 8:28 am
...Rogue and Wolverine - Both were shown praying in the X-Men cartoon, but in a fairly nondemoninational way. It was in a Christian church.
From: Jim Longo
Date: Mon, Jun 3 2002 10:09 am
When the X-Men were kidnapped by the Brood, Wolverine came upon Nightcrawler praying.
During the resultant conversation, Wolvie asserted that tried religion once, that it was a mistake,
and that he now believes only in what his senses tell him.
From: Prestorjon
Date: Tues, Jun 4 2002 6:57 pm
Nightcrawler is Catholic. Kitty Pryde is Jewish. Wolverine is probably atheistic/agnostic. Storm
is apparently an animist or polytheist of some sort. Thunderbird would appear to be a Hindu (I
don't think they've been specific but he's not a Sikh or a Jain and I'm pretty sure he's not a
MUslim. He might be a Catholic.) As for the others, I don't know. Since most are from America
or other European countries they're probably at least nominally Christian. Angel, being a good
WASP, is probably an Episcopalian. Chamber is probably C of E. [Church of England] Rogue
could be anything, maybe Baptist.
From: EBailey140
Date: Fri, Jun 7 2002 5:47 am
Kurt's also Catholic, of course. Jean would seem to be, too, but she's also studied Kabala. Remy
being raised Catholic makes sense, given his background. Kitty's Jewish. Magnus was Jewish,
but didn't practice. Rahne's Presbyterian. Logan's not Christian, but not neccessarily atheist. He
could well be Buddhist. Xorn's Buddhist.
From: "Superheroes and religion", posted 14 June 2006 on "On Christopher Street" blog website
(http://somacandra.livejournal.com/410090.html; viewed 16 June 2006):
[reader comments:]
From: mysanal
Date: June 16th, 2006 11:44 pm (UTC)
I find this [the religious affiliation of comic book characters] an interesting topic because most of
the original creators in comics were Jewish, followed by Protestant and Catholic (and lapsed)
creators in the 60s and 70s. It's been fascinating to watch writers striving for diversity over the
years... However, with major characters who have been written by many writers over the years,
there is often contradictory info (see the info on Wolverine for a good example).
From: "Atheist superheroes?" thread, started 21 September 1999 on
rec.arts.comics.marvel.universe newsgroup
(http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.comics.marvel.universe/browse_thread/thread/e8d686f0
b20944a6/e46638dbdaa8a219; viewed 22 June 2006):
From: Hosun Specious Lee
Date: Tues, Sep 21 1999 12:00 am
Wolverine is not Christian. He may be another faith though. The reason being that when he
formed a cross to ward off Dracula, it had no affect as he did not believe.
From: Steven L Cox
Date: Tues, Sep 21 1999 12:00 am
Might simply be [that Wolverine is] a lapsed Christian and lacked faith enuf to "trigger" the
symbol. Marvel has made it pretty clear that just about any holy symbol will work against
vampires as long as the possessor truly believes.
From: akhnaten9931
Date: Wed, Sep 22 1999 12:00 am
Wolverine has been established as a non-believer (this has been mentioned on a few occasions).
The Infinity Crusade mini-series pretty much defined who were the believers and non-believers
(or agnostics) among the heroes in the MU [Marvel Universe].
From: Jamie Coville
Date: Wed, Sep 22 1999 12:00 am
I don't have the issues, but I believe it was in a tale where he and Kurt (Nightcrawler) talk about
religion. Wolverine makes it clear he don't believe in God, but Kurt tries to convert him but with
no success.
Of course the story got bastardized for the cartoon audience and ended with Wolverine reading
the bible in the last scene. Boy did I ever holler and swear over that one.
From: Paul O'Brien
Date: Wed, Sep 22 1999 12:00 am
Wolverine's made several comments over his history to the effect that he doesn't believe in
anything beyond the experience of his senses. He may, in fairness, be closer to agnosticism. He
DOES believe in the existence of the supernatural (because he's seen it), but that doesn't
necessarily translate into accepting the existence of a supreme being.
Pleasingly, the writers of the recent Revelation miniseries got this more or less right. When
confronted with actual angels, Wolverine seemed to acknowledge them as genuine supernatural
entities but queried that they really were what they claimed to be. (And of course, he might have
been right.)
From: Carmen Williams
Date: Thurs, Sep 23 1999 12:00 am
As has been said before, Wolvie's definitely an atheist. There's a scene in the 160s of Uncanny
that makes the point very clearly; he tells Kurt that he is not religious and only believes in what
his senses tell him. He may also have made reference to a previous religious belief, I'm not sure.
Of course, even if he did it was probably a memory implant.
From: Carmen Williams
Date: Fri, Sep 24 1999 12:00 am
Hmmm. I think the last scene had Wolvie praying in a church, which would be a bit more
definitive. This was after a whole episode with Wolvie snarling at Kurt about the world being
rotten and how stupid it was to believe in a loving God, etc etc., and the clear implication of the
last scene was that he was acquiring at least a little inner peace through religion. I can see how
that might bother someone, but it didn't bother me. In fact, it intrigued me, because it's the first
time I'd seen religion handled (and handled reasonably well) in a cartoon. I would have had a
problem if Kurt had said "believe or you're going to hell," or "I want to save your soul from the
devil," but he didn't. In fact, tolerance was kind of the point of the episode. As far as I can recall,
it was just that Kurt was happy and at peace, and Wolvie very much wasn't, and Kurt wanted to
help.
From: Andrew Furdell
Date: Thurs, Sep 23 1999 12:00 am
I guess it sounds half good, half bad to me. You present it well. But anyway, I can't help thinking
it's kinda bad, just because that isn't the way real life is, you know? Most atheists are just like
anyone else in that we're not likely to be converted, we're closed-minded and pig-headed, etc. I'd
rather have seen Logan stick to his guns like in the comics.
From: Carmen Williams
Date: Fri, Sep 24 1999 12:00 am
Well... people do convert, you know. And I assume that at least some people are converted from
atheism to theism, so I'm not sure it's right to just say "that's not realistic." And I'd like to point
out that it really *wasn't* like the scene in the comic--Wolvie in the comic was surprised, and he
didn't share Kurt's beliefs, but he didn't challenge them either. Wolvie in the cartoon kept doing
so--sort of along the lines of "Life sucks! Especially our lives! How stupid are you that you can't
see that? Why would you ever believe in a benevolent power?" This is very different from "I
don't believe in anything I can't sense." Much less about the philosophy of it, much more about
an emotional unwillingness to believe that that kind of goodness could possibly exist-presumably because, well, his life does suck, and always has. So his "conversion" at the end was
really about losing some of his bitterness, about being willing to hope again. And that is what
religion is to some people. I remember actually being touched by the way they pulled it off. It
was also a good story for Kurt, because that kind of refusal to be miserable absolutely defines the
character. And if anything's going to get through to Wolvie that maybe he doesn't have to be mad
all the time, well, somebody who looks like and is being hunted as a demon and is still perfectly
okay with his life would be a good example.
From: "Where are the Christian Superheroes?" forum discussion page started 22 August 2006 on
Newsarama website (http://forum.newsarama.com/archive/index.php/t-81451.html; viewed 5
May 2007):
Mr Wesley
08-22-2006, 10:03 AM
...I pose the question to you, my fellow Talk@Ramanians: If Christianity is the most popular
faith in the United States, why aren't there more openly Christian superheroes?
Caramuru
08-22-2006, 03:22 PM
...One good example of a character's religion used in a relevant way in a super-hero story was
when the X-Men fought a vampire (I think it was Dracula, I'm not sure). At some point one of
them [Wolverine] held a crucifix to Dracula, who laughed it off, saying that you needed faith to
make it work. As he said that, Nightcrawler picked up the crucifix and used it effectively against
the blood-sucker. That is relevant to a super-hero story.
The X-Men books are also more suitable to showing characters with religious backgrounds
because in most occasions, they would be normal people if not for the fact that they were born
different. They don't usually have strong motivations for fighting crime or super-villains that go
beyond acceptance and survival. The X-Men books are more "social" that most super-hero
groups (as in the group being a reflection of society), so having a character interacting with
others in a way that exposes their religious beliefs is more relevant than, say, if the same thing
happened in the Justice League.
We also can't forget that, whatever the religon of some characters may be, the Marvel and DC
universes are universes in which the Judeo-Christian religions have the upper hand. The Marvel
Universe is not so obviously a Christian universe, even though there are clear depictions of Hell
and other occasional Christian elements. I haven't read Fantastic Four for a while, so I am barely
aware of some storyline having something to do with the afterlife. DC's most powerful superhero is the Spectre, who is a servant of the Christian God. No one else in the DC universe
measures up to him, not even gods from other religions, as we saw in Day of Vengeance. In Day
of Judgment, we also see an afterlife that is very consistent with what a Christian afterlife would
be like.
Xgirl1251
08-22-2006, 03:27 PM
Yeah, I agree that the X-books are more suited to portray the religious aspects of characters'
lives. One of my favourite Wolverine comics is just him and Nightcrawler sitting in a bar and
talking about religion.
From: "Comic Book Characters Listed by Religion" forum discussion started 7 March 2006 on
"Truth and Beauty Bombs" website
(http://www.truthandbeautybombs.com/bb/viewtopic.php?t=5569; viewed 10 May 2007):
Professor Stevie Freezie
Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 11:28 am
http://www.adherents.com/lit/comics/comic_book_religion.html
[http://www.truthandbeautybombs.com/bb/viewtopic.php?t=5569&postdays=0&postorder=asc&
start=30]
Forsyth
Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 5:18 pm
What does it mean when it says Wolverine is a "former atheist"? Okay, so what is he now, then?
And when did Wolverine get religion?
And man, isn't religion in comic books complicated, with like Thor dashing around everywhere,
and apparently Darkseid's a god of some kind (who knew?), and the Spectre running around, and
dozens of heroes who've been dead and come back, to tell what they saw? And wasn't Storm a
god at one point? And Wonder Woman?
Timefishblue
Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 5:23 pm
Forsyth, Wolverine is a Buddhist...
Forsyth
Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 5:25 pm
Buddhist?
From the famous Buddhist berserker schools? Seriously, when did this happen? Wait. Wasn't
there some Japanese chick he was in love with at one point? Did she die? Or is this some kind of
way for him to try and control his berserker rages with pacifism so he doesn't kill five hundred
people in a six issue arc again?
Of course, my knowledge of Wolverine extends about to the 90s X-men cartoon.
From: "Buddhist supers?" forum discussion started 13 January 2007 on RPGnet website
(http://forum.rpg.net/archive/index.php/t-306345.html; viewed 12 May 2007):
Nero's Boot
01-13-2007, 07:18 AM
Are there any Buddhist superheroes/supervillains? The only one I can think of is Swift from the
Authority (she's a Tibetan Buddhist)... So, what other Buddhists in comics have superpowers and
fight crime/commit crime?
--kind of curious in this regard NB
Brad Ellison
01-13-2007, 02:40 PM
Wolverine's practiced Buddhism in the past.
Stephenls
01-13-2007, 03:13 PM
Man, no matter what sort of group of superheroes you try to put together, Wolverine finds his
way in there eventually, don't he?
Quasar
01-13-2007, 05:54 PM
He's the exalted of comics.
Magnamammoth
01-13-2007, 06:15 PM
Abyssal exalted perhaps.
Brad Ellison
01-13-2007, 06:35 PM
He's the best there is at what he does, and sometimes, what he does is chant sutras.
From: "Religion in comic books", published 14 June 2006 on "Get Religion" website
(http://www.getreligion.org/?p=1679; viewed 15 May 2007):
[Rader comments section for this page]
c.tower says:
June 14, 2006, at 4:57 pm
American superhero comics are, first and foremost, about MYTHOLOGY. Not just existing
mythology (though many characters - like Thor and Wonder Woman - are drawn directly from
myths); new myths are constantly being created and developed.Jack Kirby was the greatest
mythmaker of them all; one of his crowning achievements was even called NEW GODS(a comic
STAR WARS owes a HUGE debt to).It's fasinating to watch these myths develop and change as
they pass through the hands of different creators; it really is like watching little religons develop
(and the infighting between comics fans sometimes seems like fanatics yelling "INFIDEL!" at
each other). But it should be noted: Hollywood changes these myths when it sends them to the
big screen, and not always for the better. (When the first X-MEN movie came out, I saw a pair of
matched posters for it - one featuring the heroes, the other the villians. Seperated like that, I
noticed that all of the heroes were depicted as being classically good-looking, and all the villians
were made ugly- a sort of visual moral short hand that wasn't in the comics. . . and clearly
intended as such, because the most popular of the heroes, Wolverine, had gone from short, hairy,
and ugly to tall, dark, and handsome.)
Will says:
June 14, 2006, at 7:47 pm
The writers forgot that Wolverine is explicitly an atheist.
From: "The Church of Superman" forum discussion started 19 June 2006 on the "James Randi
Educational Foundation" website (http://www.randi.org/forumlive/showthread.php?t=58627;
viewed 15 May 2007):
19th June 2006, 06:03 AM
headscratcher4
The Church of Superman
http://adherents.com/lit/comics/comic_book_religion.html
Hmmmm... the "religious" affiliations of comic book characters. Huh?
19th June 2006, 12:01 PM
Legalduck
...Admittedly, some of the statements are fair guesses.. Wolverine is a reformed atheist? Musta
missed that issue...
19th June 2006, 11:56 PM
Ausmerican
Looking at the two I was most familiar with, I was amused.
Despite the fact that Batman has said several times that he has no time for religion or god, they
cite as evidence that Batman was a particular religion the shape of his tombstone. Ummm might
have something to do with the fact that comics are a visual medium and the artist thought an
ornate cross simply looked better than a plain headstone, ya think?
And the best and funniest bit of hypocrisy: the entry for Wolverine. After stating that although
Wolverine has been shown praying in Buddhist and Shinto temples and was going to have a
Shinto wedding this in no way makes him a Shintoist or Buddhist, they follow up by more or less
saying that Wolverine has been shown praying in a Christian church and seeking advice from a
priest so that makes him a Christian.
From: "What are the religious beliefs of the main mutants in the X-Books?" forum discussion
started 16 January 2007 on "Comic Book Resources" website
(http://forums.comicbookresources.com/archive/index.php/t-160293.html; viewed 16 May
2007):
01-16-2007, 03:51 PM
What do you think the religious beliefs of the following mutants are?
Scott
Jean
Professor X
Magneto
Wolverine
Wanda
Lorna
Bobby
Pietro
Storm
ibrakeforchinwe
01-16-2007, 04:38 PM
Kitty - Jewish
Jean - Protestant
Magneto - Jewish
Xavier - Protestant
Bobby - Jewish
Wanda - Jewish
Pietro - Jewish
Lorna - Catholic?
Storm - No idea...
Wolverine - Protestant?
Emma - Catholic?
Sam - Baptist?
Angel - Protestant?
Banshee - Catholic?
Chamber - Anglican?
Scott and Alex - Protestant
Psylocke - Protestant or Anglican
AnthonyJ
01-16-2007, 07:09 PM
Most comic book characters are blandly nondenominational with a tendency towards being
WASPs [i.e., "White Anglo-Saxon Protestants"]. The only ones I would consider obviously
practicing members of a faith are:
Kitty: Jewish
Jean: founder and prophet of the Church of the Phoenix
Magneto: Jewish
Storm: Neopagan, Goddess worshipper
Sam: Baptist
Kurt: Catholic
gambitsgurl
01-17-2007, 06:25 AM
Wolverine is an atheist.
In one of the earlier issues I believe he mentioned something to Nightcrawler (concerning God)
about only believing in what he can see, smell, or touch. I will try to find the issue and quote...
fishtaco
01-17-2007, 07:47 AM
Yeah, Wolverine's atheist. Nightcrawler and Shadowcat are obvious. Storm (and probably
Magik) are complicated. Rogue is Christian, but I don't think we know whether that's Protestant
or Catholic or something else. I don't think Longshot understands the concept of religion, so I
guess that might make him an atheist. Wolfsbane is Presbyterian, Cannonball is Christian as of
New Mutants (1st Series) #15. I suppose Magma believes in the Roman (Greek) gods? Forge? I
think Gambit is atheist. Thunderbird III is Hindu. There are Shi'ar gods... Shaara, Kythri),
Lilandra worships them.
The Lucky One
01-19-2007, 12:14 AM
As for Wolverine, I believe he's now more agnostic than flat-out atheist. Frankly, any character
in either the Marvel or DC universes who's an actual atheist just hasn't been paying attention.
There's clearly something out there, so the most any of them could reasonably be would be
agnostic.
From: "Is Batman an atheist or is he just not very religious?" forum discussion started 2 April
2007 on "Toon Zone" website (http://forums.toonzone.net/archive/index.php/t-187589.html;
viewed 21 May 2007):
Eddie G.
04-03-2007, 09:56 AM
Well, he [Batman] is a scientist and tackles life in a very logical way to nearly a fault. So, I
would say that while he probably accepts the existence of one, or more higher beings as evident
from his personal experience, he wouldn't be one for believing in a God based on scripture and
faith alone. Of course there is no right answer and never will be, he can be what ever religion
you want him to be.
Colossus and Wolverine are Atheists though...
From: "What religion do superhero's belong to? [sic]" forum discussion started 18 July 2002 on
"Toon Zone" website (http://forums.toonzone.net/showthread.php?t=41332; viewed 21 May
2007):
07-18-2002, 01:02 PM
wonderfly
What religion do superhero's [sic] belong to?
I'd like to discuss what religious beliefs are favorite costumed hero's belong to. Everyone knows
Daredevil is Catholic. But beyond that, what do we know of superhero's beliefs? I'm thinking of
mostly the Marvel Universe, but you DC fans feel free to contribute as well...
07-18-2002, 01:30 PM
Machina
This is a discussion I've had several times with my friends, and usually I step out of it when it
turns offensive. (Which with my friends, it always does!) Thing to remember though that until
recently, like the past decade, religion and talks of such were verboten in most main stream
comic books. Now that's changed...
Let's see...
...Daniel "Iron Fist" Rand is a Buddhist and Magneto is Jewish. Xavier may just be
nondenominational. No idea what Scott Summers is but it seems that Jean Grey is a Christian as
well, and same with the Hank McCoy.
And then there's Blade and Wolverine... I don't think they really care if there's a God or not.
07-18-2002, 01:37 PM
JohnStewart
re: And then there's Blade and Wolverine... ...I don't think they really care if there's a God or not.
That reminds me of an episode of X-Men tas that featured Nightcrawler were in the end
Wolverine found faith in God.
From: "Atheist representation on the Avengers" forum discussion started 20 June 2001 on
"Comic Boards" website (http://www.comicboards.com/avengers/view.php?trd=010620110715;
viewed 24 May 2007):
Posted by Jae on Wednesday, June 20 2001 at 11:07:15 GMT
Atheist representation on the Avengers
The teams pretty well rounded now, but are there any atheistic members?...
[http://www.comicboards.com/avengers/view.php?rpl=010620125204]
Re: Atheist representation on the Avengers
In my opinion, this issue is pretty well addressed in the 'Infinity Crusade.' The whole premise of
the story divides all of the major Marvel heroes into "crusaders," and "infidels." The infidels
were not necessarily dyed-in-the-wool atheist per say, but they did not have the faith required to
be influenced by the powers of the villain (Goddess was it?).
I cannot remember how it all broke down that well, but the infidels included the scientific like
Richards, and Iron Man, and hard cases like Wolverine and the Hulk. In general it seems that
females were much more likely to be crusaders, and I am sure that the Black Knight, and Cap
were amongst them. When the crusaders were gathered, they were drawn by images of various
symbols which reflected their faiths...
From: "How many Atheist superheroes/heroines are there?" forum discussion, started 20 May
2007 on Newsarama website (http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?p=3716053; viewed
24 May 2007):
05-20-2007, 06:23 AM
JoeZhang
How many Atheist superheroes/heroines are there?
05-20-2007, 06:34 AM
RedRonin
...I say Wolverine or Xavier. Both seem like they could be [atheists].
From: "Religious Characters In Marvel" forum discussion started 15 September 2006 on "Comic
Book Resources" website (http://forums.comicbookresources.com/archive/index.php/t143850.html; viewed 25 May 2007):
Nogs
09-15-2006, 09:01 PM
The other day I was thinking about religion and comic books... What I'm interested in is the way
religious characters are portrayed in comic books...
I think the first step is listing what characters are what religion...
Deadpooligan
09-15-2006, 09:44 PM
Mags is actually a born Jewish who was raised by gypsies in his youth.
...Wolverine was probably raised Catholic or maybe somewhat like a Puritan. I got the gist of it
in Origin...
brainfloat
09-16-2006, 06:00 PM
Wolverine and Quasar are Atheists.
Magneto_X
09-16-2006, 06:18 PM
I could never understand how any Earthbound super-hero or villian would be an atheist and/or
agnostic.
They've seen gods up close!
Ullar
09-16-2006, 06:30 PM
Yeah but not "God," at least the Jew/Christian/Catholic/Muslim/any other religion god.
Deadpooligan
09-16-2006, 08:26 PM
re: Wolverine [is an] Atheist.
That can't be true. He was praying at his elder brother's gravestone in the second issue of Origin,
and I'm sure there was a line about Rose and him wanting to get married in a church.
I don't think he's renounced his faith per se, but he certainly isn't the best at what he does in
regard to religion...
Basically, he believes in a higher power, and therefore not an atheist.
LordEd1976
09-16-2006, 09:03 PM
I would have to put Wolverine down as a lapsed Catholic. He probably started out precticing but
decades of pain and all the bad stuff he's seen and done have more than likely had a negative
impact on any beilef he may have in a higher power.
brainfloat
09-17-2006, 02:43 AM
Wolverine must have got religion within the past decade, I remember from (I'm guessing an 80's
X-Men maybe earlier) that Nightcrawler and Wolverine clashed in thier beliefs before becuase I
am positive that Nightcrawler once told Wolverine that he must be very alone because he's
atheist.
(or maybe he lost it, considering continuty)
filthysize
09-17-2006, 01:23 PM
Right. Really, unless, you have the religion be a super-specific and important element of the
character (like what they made Nightcrawler to be), it tends to be flexible. Sometimes you'll see a
superhero or a villain confide in a priest just for story purposes, but then they'd somehow declare
him Jewish. It happens.
Wolverine is an obvious case. Writers who remember his Japan background would show him
praying like a Buddhist or visit Buddhist temples. Others don't care, and have him pray in a
church. Then there are writers who think that religion doesn't fit Logan's demeanor, and have
him be a skeptic or an atheist.
OdinSon1
09-18-2006, 07:29 PM
Wolverine is an atheist. When the X-Men clashed with Dracula he tried to use a cross to hold
Dracula at bay. However the only way any religious iconography or symbol holds a vampire at
bay is if you have faith in it, the stronger your faith, the more it repells the vampire. Since
Wolverine's cross was completely useless, he has no faith in it, and since he was at one time a
Christian, he has renounced his Christianity and become an atheist...
Omega Alpha
09-18-2006, 08:40 PM
Couldn't it mean that he is just not very religious, or is not religious at all? The cross made effect
only with Nightcrawler, which is one of the most religious characters in the MU [Marvel
Universe].
Loestal
09-19-2006, 04:04 PM
re: Couldn't it mean that he is just not very religious, or is not religious at all?
That's exactly what it means. It doesn't make him an Atheist.
From: "Ask an Atheist!" forum discussion, started 9 June 2006 on "Comic Book Resources"
website (http://forums.comicbookresources.com/archive/index.php/t-128514-p-5.html; viewed
30 May 2007):
shadowraven
06-21-2006, 10:13 AM
According to this (http://www.adherents.com/lit/comics/comic_book_religion.html#Me) list, the
following superheroes are Atheists:
Mr. Terrific II
the Savage Dragon
Booster Gold
Mystique
Starman Ted Knight
Colossus
Wolverine (possibly)
Michael Pullmann
06-21-2006, 11:48 AM
re: Wolverine (possibly)
Logan's definitely an atheist. I recall him saying as much to Nightcrawler over a beer once.
From: "Which superhero would be the best Muslim?" forum discussion, started 17 January 2006
on the "Muslim Student Association: University of South Florida" website
(http://www.msausf.org/MSAUSF/forums/467/ShowPost.aspx; viewed 4 June 2007):
01-17-2006, 9:00 AM
Kashif
Which superhero would be the best Muslim?
Salam. Me and Momodu were speaking to each other over some delicious baklava and coffee
about which superhero would most likely be Muslim. I would say Batman is most likely to be a
great Muslim because he practices great self-restraint when it comes to alcohol consumption, and
fornication mashallah. Also, Batman does not eat pork because it slows him down in his nightly
crusades against Joker and other foes. Also, he does not have time to backbite or gossip or
engage in other forms of fitna because he is too busy cleaning the Batcave and changing the oil
in the Batmobile. Thank You.
Momodu, on the other hand, says the Hulk would make an amazing Muslim because he always
keeps his gaze lowered. Also, Momodu says the Hulk's purple pants somehow always manage to
cover his a'ura, as in his body from his belly button down to his knees. Please dont be shy about
showing your feelings. No one is here to judge you and all your postings are welcome.
P.S.
DC and Marvel superheroes are both welcome
01-25-2006, 12:08 PM
Mouhannad
I'll tell you who screams Muslim: WOLVERINE. He has 3 claws from each hand (3 is sunna),
and he has a beard, mashallah. He is also on a constant search in which he travels all over the
world to learn about his creator. And like most great Muslims, he may not have the biggest
muscles, but on the inside he is stronger then steel. Finally, though we all know he could get Jean
any day (cyclops is gay), he waits his turn, until there is an official seperation. I can only hope
that we may all be as devout as Wolverine.
[http://www.msausf.org/MSAUSF/forums/2/467/ShowPost.aspx#467]
01-31-2006, 12:44 PM
momodu
Mouhannad, Wolverine would make a horrible Muslim. He never smiles, he is always angry and
he is always chasing after Cyclops' fiance. He just can't get her because he has no game.
01-31-2006, 3:20 PM
Mouhannad
Oh no, you did not go there. Wolverine was always angry for the right reasons, it's just Cyclops
was a control freak and didn't want to lose the X-men to the obviously more influential member.
And though Wolverine never really agreed with all of their expeditions, and wasn't always sure if
he wanted to be a part of the next adventure, he conceeded to the wisdom of Professor Xavier.
Finally, I think we all know where the X-men would be if Wolverine wasn't there. As for Jean...
it was her fault she kept giving Wolverine hope while still claiming to belong to Cyclops. That is
a no-no, and as a result the man is not fully responsible.
Anyways, Wolverine is a hardened dude whos been through a lot. you can't expect him to be a
sissy hero who is so noble and shows great emotions and restraint. All in all, if I were an X-man
I would want Wolverine to have my back.
02-06-2006, 11:10 AM
momodu
That is biggest load of bologna that I have ever read. First of all I think we all know that
Wolverine was not a threat to Cyclops' position. If anyone was next in line to lead it would be
storm since she is second in command. Second wolverine was always out for personal vengance
especially when he fought Sabretooth. That doesn't seem like the right reason to be angry. I
didn't want to have to go here but I guess I have no Choice. OK here goes. Wolverine liked to
beat on women. Thats right I said it. He was constantly fighting Mystique hand to hand, and
actually stabbed her a few times. He also got into a huge brawl with Lady Deathstrike who was
once his fiance. And finally Jean did not throw herself at him. He was always chasing her but in
the end he just didn't have what it took. Wolverine was a great hero, that's for sure. But could he
be a great Muslim? I don't think so.
02-07-2006, 3:25 PM
Mouhannad
Momodu, i think the only 100% accurate source to rule over this is Marvel itself. And according
to that amazing source Sabretooth is a vicious blood thirsty mutant who has always been
threatened by Wolverine. Wolverine's pursuit of Sabretooth is nothing short of Xavier's pursuit
of Magneto, except on a smaller scale. As a matter of fact, it is even less controversial
considering the fact that it could (COULD) be argued that Magneto is not necessarily all evil.
Wolverine is an invaluable part of the X-men and has probably sacrificed more then any of them
in order to help the Professor's cause. As for his relationship with Jean, well I still hold to the fact
that Jean leaves the door slightly ajar for the possibility of those two, as she can't seem to make
up her mind. But regardless, we are not asking who would make the perfect Muslim, but a good
Muslim. Who knows, with Jean as Phoenix maybe he will finally move on.
02-08-2006, 10:15 AM
momodu
How dare you. I practically gave you that argument. I am not going to argue that Sabretooth isn't
evil. All I want to say is that personal hatred is not a very good reason for revenge. Also on the
issue of Jean, before Wolverine ever heard the word X-men Jean was engaged to be married to
Cyclops. Now if you want to go back to the source, then I believe Marvel states that one of the
main reasons Wolverine stays on the X-men is to be near Jean. Now I'm no expert, but I'm pretty
sure that a good Muslim doesn't try to get his leader's wife.
From: Clark Goble, "Unpractical Ethics: Superheroes", posted 11 October 2005 on "Millenial
Star" website [which comments on topics relating to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day
Saints] (http://www.millennialstar.org/index.php/2005/10/11/unpractical_ethics_superheros;
viewed 5 June 2007):
Even as comics have sort of become marginalized again, superheroes have experienced a
renaissance the last five years or so. It seems every year brings two or three big budgeted
superhero films. Admittedly most aren't terribly good. But while I've not read comics for quite
some time, I do enjoy the Spiderman, X-Men, and Batman pictures. I have to confess I'm eagerly
awaiting the forthcoming rebirth of Superman by X-Men's Bryan Singer. (And dreading Brett
Ratner taking over X-Men). Anyway, I thought for a change of pace rather than doing a
"practical ethics" I'd do the opposite. The most unpractical ethics of all: analyzing superheroes.
Now I know at least one person is preparing a post on an other blog taking exception to some of
my views. And I'll further confess that with a few exceptions while reading graphic novels at
Borders, I've really not read comics since the early 80's when I was a kid. Since comics are reinvented a lot, things may have changed. But here's my views...
X-Men. These guys always remind me of the Mormons in Missouri. Persecuted because they are
different, yet not afraid to take matters into their own hands. Who is Magneto? Is it the Danites?
Porter Rockwell? Lots of interesting parallels in our own history to the moral conundrums found
both in the films and in the comics. To what degree must we be both in the world yet not of the
world. The difference between X-Men and Superman is that where Superman is respected by the
world, the X-Men are feared, distrusted, and ultimately the government works against them.
[Reader Comments:]
Comment from: danithew - http://blogdiss.weblogs.us
I like Wolverine. But there's nothing Mormon about him, far as I can tell, bub. Snikt!
[By the way, I like him in the brown and orange costume ... not that yellow and blue
abomination.]
10/11/05 - 23:15
Comment from: danithew - http://blogdiss.weblogs.us
As far as adjectives go, Mormons are most like the X-Men. The X-Men are "uncanny" while
Mormons are "a peculiar people."
10/11/05 - 23:18
From: "New Joe Fridays: Week 49" forum discussion, started 1 June 2007 on Newsarama
website (http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=114952&page=5; viewed 8 June 2007):
06-03-2007, 04:58 AM
TheToileteer
You brought up the issue of comic-book stereotypes and religions. Since I study religion (all
kinds, really) this is something I've thought about a lot.
First the issue of stereotypes in general: The first major black Marvel characters were the Black
Panther (Phantom/Tarzan-like jungle lord with a name that may or may not have predated the
American political party by that name), Luke Cage (1970's blacksploitation character), Falcon
(sidekick with a criminal past), and Storm (African princess modeled after Lt. Uhura). Throw on
the Arabian Knight (actually an Egyptian, he had a scimitar and flying carpet), Shamrock, Batroc
ze Leaper, and every German except Nightcrawler. I see all this as stemming not from
maliciousness, but from the tendency of comic books to deal in stock characters, as a kind of
shorthand. Later attempts improved with time, for the most part, though new characters have
always had greater difficulty gaining a foothold.
So, on to religion. What religions do we find represented in Marvel? A lot of them are "weird"
ones associated with exotic fantasy. Several decades ago, comic book writers could be fairly sure
that none of their readers would know or be Tibetan Buddhists, Kali devotees, Voodoo
practitioners, or Gypsies, so they felt free to make up details out of whole cloth, or portray some
religions as wicked. Today this is no longer possible. Recall the Hindu reaction to Krishna's
appearance on "Xena: Warrior Princess" (as a villain). So today, weird or evil religions are more
likely to be entirely fictional, like the Triune Understanding (a Scientology pastiche) or the
Ultimate Shi'ar (a cult not an alien race). The Greek and Norse pantheons appear to also be fair
game.
Mainstream religions were generally unmentioned before the 1990's (though we do find Cap
consulting the New Testament for inspiration during the 1970's, and of course Damien Hellstrom
trained for the Roman Ritual). Then suddenly a number of characters were revealed as being of
Roman Catholic background (Daredevil, Invisible Woman, Nightcrawler, Punisher), or
occasionally Jewish (Thing, though he is predated by minor characters Doc Samson, Sabra, Kitty
Pryde, and Justice). USAgent, in his stint as Cap, was hinted to be a conservative Protestant.
What was the motivation for all this? In the case of Daredevil, his being Catholic became a kind
of shorthand for guilt and so on. Nightcrawler was assumed to be Catholic because of his
Bavarian origins, Punisher because of his mafia connections. Jack Kirby once drew the Thing
with a prayer-shawl, and Jewish ethnicity seemed to reinforce the character's constant suffering
and kvetching (and maybe his sense of humor too). I don't know what the story was with
Invisible Woman, perhaps someone else will enlighten me.
In these cases, religions were still mainly used as shorthand. A number of non-heroic examples
would fit the description of "religious leader turns out to be an evil-doer" (e.g."God Loves, Man
Kills", or the Six-Fingered Hand or the cult of Joshua from Defenders). These too are fairly
obvious targets (Protestant evangelists, cult leaders) from the point of view of the pop culture.
Some positive (but highly "orientalized") images of Asian religions come to us via Dr. Strange,
Iron Fist, Karma from the X-Men (remember the appearance of the yin/yang emblem from her
origin?) and even Wolverine (who adopted Japanese motifs in the wake of the TV miniseries
"Shogun"). Note the different treatment with Western religions, which are more "ordinary" and
generally lack magic powers.
I suggest that if real religions are going to be invoked, then they had better be done right. That
means whoever writes Bro. Voodoo ought to take the trouble to find out what voodoo actually
consists of in the real world, and find some way to fit the superhero within that (allowing for
supernatural flourishes, of course). If Dr. Strange goes to Tibet, then the writer had better know
something about the real Tibet, e.g. that it is under Chinese control. Marvel did actually try to
make sense of the Cult of Kali awhile back (Shroud mini), but it became a kind of Hare Krishna
pastiche (except presumably Shaiva rather than Vaishnava). It's okay to have villains who
worship Kali (or whatever), but this shouldn't be presented as normal behavior for Kaliworshippers.
What about the other tendency? Suppose the writer for Wolverine wants to assign Wolvie a
religion. Should Wolvie "just happen" to be revealed as having been a Quaker all these years
(picking a religion out of the hat here)? And if that seems to have nothing to do with Wolvie as a
character, isn't that the point--that not everybody fits the stereotypes? Or should his religion
(once mentioned) be emphasized, so that Wolvie from now on must wrestle with his conscious
according to his perception of the Inner Light, as taught by George Fox et. al.? But that risks
making comics too didactic, which would be the kiss of death, wouldn't it?
From: "Religions of super heroes" forum discussion page started 14 August 2006 on "Wizard
Universe" website (http://wizarduniverse.invisionzone.com/lofiversion/index.php/t1595.html;
viewed 20 June 2007):
MatchesMalone
Aug 15 2006, 04:32 PM
What does "Wolverine: former atheist" mean?
RIV1
Aug 15 2006, 04:56 PM
It means he believes in God now. He probably feels that's enough.
hrdwrkngXsoldier
Aug 15 2006, 05:23 PM
Maybe he's agnostic now?
From: Kevin C. Murphy, "Can I get a (super)-witness?", posted 3 April 2006 by (kevincmurphy)
on Triptych Cryptic/Ghost in the Machine blog website
(http://www.ghostinthemachine.net/003749.html#003749; viewed 21 June 2007):
The Religious Affiliation of Comic Book Characters [link to:
http://www.adherents.com/lit/comics/comic_book_religion.html], with a handy graphic of who's
a member of what "legion." The site also includes impressively detailed individual entries on
each character -- not only the big guns like Methodist Superman, Episcopal Batman, Catholic
Daredevil, and Buddhist Wolverine, but also everyone from Presbyterian Wolfsbane to the
Mormon Power Pack.
From: "Jews and Catholics rule" forum discussion, started 9 July 2006 on "Pop Culture Shock"
website (http://www.popcultureshock.com/pcs/forums/showthread.php?t=13549; viewed 28 June
2007):
07-09-2006, 09:18 PM
Magneto X
Default Jews and Catholics rule. [By this, the poster means that Catholics and Jews have the
most representation among comic book superheroes.]
The Mormons are rocking out too!
(Fastest growing religion though, I hear, so I guess they deserve the reppin [i.e., representation].)
But the Muslims (22% of the world), the Hindu (15% of the world), the Sikhs ( totally typecast
as supporting characters only!), Confucianists (7% of the planet), (and Athiests/Agnostics (17%
of the world and growing fast!) all get the raw deal from comics:
http://www.adherents.com/lit/comics/comic_collage.html
Fascinating stuff!
Also be sure to check out the individual portraits. (i.e.: Superman is a Methodist but Lois is
Catholic, Power Pack were all Mormons, Wolverine's a Buddhist, and Colossus, Booster Gold,
and Iron Man are atheists. Their practices and more are described here:
http://www.adherents.com/lit/comics/comic_book_religion.html
From: "The Religious Affiliation of Comic Book Characters" forum discussion, started 27 June
2007 on "City of Heroes" website
(http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=8576731; viewed 6 July 2007):
Darc_Reign
06/27/07 02:31 PM
The Religious Affiliation of Comic Book Characters [link to:
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=8576731]
My Local newsradio station pointed this site out.
Let the battle begin.
BrasswireBrush
06/27/07 03:13 PM
I think it's interesting and something that doesn't get talked about enough. But then I don't
generally see alot of good debate and discussion in most comics anyway.
I can remember growing up and really loving some of the dialogue about religion that used to
occur in X-Men. Between Nightcrawler (devout Catholic), Wolverine (Agnostic), and Colossus
(Communist/Athiest) there was usually about a page of decent back and forth every few issues.
From: "Religious Super Heroes PC or otherwise" forum discussion, started 17 September 2003
on "HERO Games" website (http://www.herogames.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-8036.html;
viewed 12 July 2007):
Hermit
Sep 24th, '03, 07:50 AM
While I agree about the dichotomy about [Nightcrawler's] looks and faith, I recall quite a few
good moments in the comics I read at that explored Nightcrawler's religious side. (I thought he
was introduced in the 70's myself-nitpick I know). Scenes I recall fondly were the X-Men battle
against Dracula, where Kurt puts the hurt on Drac by taking two simple sticks and ramming them
together in cross formation.
And the one where the X-Men are about to go into battle... Wolverine seeks out Nightcrawler,
and finds him praying.
Nightcrawler admits he is, and admits how oten times he seeks comfort from such. He then asks
Wolverine if he believes, and if so in what? Wolverine's response is "Me? I believe in what I can
touch, smell, taste." With an inference that there is nothing more beyond that.
Nightcrawler gives him a look of sympathy and says "ach, mein friend, I never realized how
lonely you really were until now."
Wolverine scoffs, and goes "Who's lonely? I got you ain't I?"
And off they go.
I think the other purpose Nightcrawler had was to contrast was to Wolverine's cynicism and
disabelief in things he could not sense, and in Storm's former 'goddess'hood.
Really, it depended on the writer, there were some that even had Nighcrawler's faith shattered
later on, but I'd still put him as one of the first religious super heroes, and it never struck me as in
a particularly 'bad' way :)
From: "Superheroes by Religion" forum discussion, started 11 January 2007 on "Political
Crossfire" website (http://www.politicalcrossfire.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=73989; viewed 16
July 2007):
Nathyn
Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 7:20 pm
I wasn't sure whether to put this here or the Lounge, but this place rarely has anything lighthearted, so I suppose it needs it. So, here it is. I thought this was fascinating and should be
expanded:
http://www.adherents.com/lit/comics/comic_collage.html
Yes, the Thing is a Jew.
I never expected that, lol.
Quote: Born on Yancy Street in New York City's Lower East Side, to a Jewish family, Benjamin
Jacob Grimm...
Perhaps modelled after the Golem, no doubt?
Superman and Batman are, of course... Christian. ["Rolling Eyes" emoticon] (Superman is a
Methodist, Batman is an Anglican.)
Let's see... Green Lantern is a bad Jew ("Jewish Catholic").
And ooh, Wolverine is a Buddhist! ["Very Happy" emoticon]
Kim Jong Ill
Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 10:26 pm
I dissagree. I think Wolverine is more of an Irish Catholic. I mean, come on, all he does is drink
and fight.... (joking)
The Central Scrutinizer
Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2007 2:38 am
No, the atheists drafted Wolverine in the second round. This is bulls**t.
Nightstalker [sic: This poster means "Nightcrawler."] is Eastern Orthodox, not Catholic.
What on Earth is "Jewish Catholic?" Seriously.
How is it that the Episcopalians and the CoE bunch get more big-name superheroes than any
other group?
This site clearly has an Anglo-Saxon bias.
From: "Question about Magneto" forum discussion, started 12 May 2006 on "Giant in the
Playground" website (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-15296.html; viewed
17 July 2007):
somatic
05-15-2006, 10:31 PM
Odder still, Wolverine is a Shintoist...
Foeofthelance
05-15-2006, 11:03 PM
Actually, Wolverine being Shintoist makes sense, considering most of his memories take place
in Japan, and alot of his efforts to control his berserker have been based off of Japanese warrior
training.
Haggis_McCrablice
05-16-2006, 01:40 AM
In the nineties X-series, Wolverine seems to be angry and at odds with God. He speaks to a
deformed monk named Kurt Wagner ("Nightcrawler") and seems to have a change of heart. He
is even seen reading the Bible at the end of the episode. I think the comics' Wolvie may have
converted to Shintoist after he became involved with a Japanese woman (did he marry her? I
don't recall offhand) many years ago... So he might have been something else before that.
Piedmon_Sama
05-17-2006, 04:35 AM
What? Wolverine practices zen meditational techniques as part of his training, but he's neither
Shintoist nor Buddhist. He does respect and is knowledgable about those traditions from his time
in Japan, but otherwise I've always seen him as a general agnostic. He's had too many encounters
with various scions of the supernatural from many different cultures over the years to accept just
one.
Wolverine was, at one time a Christian, but after Cyber murdered his then-fiance around the time
of WWI, Wolverine became an atheist. He's come back around to having a spiritual side more
recently, but I don't think he'll ever be a straight-up member of any particular denomination ever
again.
Also, his fiance Yoshida Mariko has been dead for years, but had they had a wedding, it would
have been a traditional Shintoist affair. The Yoshidas were a very traditional family with
aristocratic origins.
Despite the name of the page in the following source, it is not clear how "authoritative" this
source is. This appears to be simply the viewpoint of one dedicated comic book fan. From: Jim
Trabold, "Ultimate Marvel Handbook #19: (174)", posted 21 July 2006 in "Comics Nexus"
section of "Inside Pulse" website (http://www.insidepulse.com/article_v3.php?contentid=49881;
viewed 17 July 2007):
Hello everyone I'm Jim Trabold welcome to the Ultimate Marvel Handbook.
Hey Daron how are you today bud?
I'm pretty good. I'm curious though if anyone reading this column doesn't know who you
are? I just find it interesting that you introduce yourself every week. I wonder if you're
trying to reach the same mythic "new" readers that the comic industry is always preaching
about.
I'm good. I'm missing out on SDCC but I'll make up for it next year. I still plan on reading the
news and all coming from the con though. Can't wait for WW Chicago now.
Oh sure, you're gonna go to Chicago this year, and I can't make it.
Yeah that's enough con talk for now lol. Let's start.
[Question] 18 - I know that in DC, Batman (rumored), Atom, Starman, Booster Gold and
Mr. Terrific are atheists, besides Wolverine and Hulk who else in Marvel is also confirmed
or considered as the same?
[Answer:] Wolverine and Hulk actually do have faith in religion in their own manors. Hulk
would be Bruce's religion Catholic and Wolverine was for a while but now is Buddhist.
As for confirmed atheists:
Carnage
Colossus
Iron Man
Ms. Marvel
Mystique
Pete Wisdom
Quasar
Vivisector
From: "Religious Affiliations of Super Heroes..." forum discussion, started 3 July 2007 on
Fukushima Forums website
(http://www.fujet.net/Forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=09a3ae0abf6efb8de2134680e092aee6&top
ic=815.msg7854; viewed 2 August 2007):
Stirling
July 03, 2007, 12:11:58 AM
Now this is interesting...
http://www.adherents.com/lit/comics/comic_collage.html
Mister O
July 03, 2007, 01:30:59 PM
I love it how fans seem to always seek order in the chaos that is serialized fiction. The Wolverine
page on that site is exemplary of this: http://www.adherents.com/lit/comics/Wolverine.html .
Obviously, the Marvel writers who have used Wolverine have no set "answer" to what
Wolverine's religion is. One writer wants him to be Christian, another writer wants him to be
Buddhist. Wolverine isn't real, so there's no problem. But from the fan's point of view,
everything must tie neatly together into a single continuity, so this website expends 20 pages to
answer a simple question: "What is Wolverine's religion?"
I'm not faulting the fans, mind you; just making an observation. It can be fun to geek out like this
sometimes. But other times it's important to remember that fictional characters are not real
people and, by rights, have no religion or birthday or best friends or favorite color underwear.
BetterthanBrent
July 03, 2007, 04:12:43 PM
Geez Matt, did you even have a childhood or were you just born with the personality of a 60 year
old?
mattoichiban - definitely ;)
July 03, 2007, 02:48:29 PM
Who's Wolverine? Is he Captain Canuck's half-brother or something?
From: "The New Improved Official Stupid Question Thread Marvel Edition" forum discussion,
started 3 July 2004 on "Superhero Hype" website
(http://forums.superherohype.com/archive/index.php/t-124699-p-15.html; viewed 11 August
2007):
The Question
07-24-2007, 11:01 AM
I recall an issue of Wolverine where it was said that in the Marvel Universe, the existence of god
had been, beyond a shadow of a doubt, scientifically proven through some sort of mathematical
equasion. So, wouldn't that mean that there are no athiests in the MU anymore?
TheCorpulent1
07-24-2007, 11:02 AM
Do you know of any absolutely proven atheists in the Marvel universe?
The Question
07-24-2007, 11:05 AM
re: "Do you know of any absolutely proven atheists in the Marvel universe?"
Hmm. Well, obviously the old Communist villains from the 60s would be. Other than that, no.
photojones2
07-24-2007, 11:42 AM
Is that in reference to the FF story where they met God, and He was Jack Kirby?
The Question
07-24-2007, 11:44 AM
No. Wolverine was just tracking some crazy super genius terrorist and, giving an example of the
guy's genuis, mentioned that he had come up with a mathematical equation that proved the
existence of God.
TheCorpulent1
07-24-2007, 11:46 AM
It's possible that there are still atheists in the Marvel universe because people didn't believe him.
After all, "crazy super genius terrorist" isn't exactly the kinds of descriptors I look for in an
unimpeachable source.
The Question
07-24-2007, 11:47 AM
True.
Silicon Surfer
07-24-2007, 03:40 PM
There was an issue of Guardians of the Galaxy where the Beyonder was talking to a couple of
other cosmics unfamiliar to me. They were talking about higher order beings in multiple
echelons above what they knew. This would seem to prove conclusively that God does not exist
in the MU. I don't remember it very well since I only glanced at it in the store and could not fit it
in my budget at the time.
The Question
07-24-2007, 05:11 PM
Oh, God most definitely exists in the MU [Marvel Universe]. I was just asking if the bit in
Wolverine where it was said that it had been scientifically proven on Earth was widly known or
accepted, and how much it effected the MU.
Webpage created 30 November 2005. Last modified 11 August 2007.
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