Australian Communications and Media Authority – Safer Internet

Australian Communications and Media Authority – Safer Internet

Day 8 February 2013 – Webcast Transcript


Day Webcast

Title: Final Panel Session

Location – Interior – Studio – Day

BEGIN on a title card that reads: ‘SAFER INTERNET DAY WEBCAST’ and ‘FINAL PANEL SESSION’ with ACMA and CYBER(SMART:) logos.

THEN JAMES, JANE, STEPHANIE and RICHARD form a webcast panel discussion. They each sit on stage and share a microphone as

JAMES moderates. While JAMES speaks, an identifying card appears that reads: ‘JAMES O’LOGHLIN Program Host’.

JAMES

And welcome if you’re just joining us to the ACMA’s special broadcast to, uh, commemorate the tenth anniversary of Safer

Internet Day. Now to a panel discussion and panelists, if you’re watching on the webcam, you can actually see the topic of the discussion will be this: Online Versus

Offline. Is there really any difference anymore. We’re gonna about the way that young people perceive the difference or perhaps don’t perceive the difference between the online and the offline world.

Has the presence of technology in young peoples’ lives meant that the online and offline have now become so integrated and so normal that they just don’t really perceive any dividing line. Is the distinction between online and offline, not impossible to perceive, but kinda meaningless these days? Do online experiences now blend with offline experiences in such a way that’ll soon be kind of kind of old-fashioned to distinguish between them. Of course, we rely on the internet and technology more and more to deliver us, well, almost everything: entertainment, education, information, and all sorts of services. The internet is used in-- In some way for almost everything. For example, you wouldn’t think that getting a plumber in to fix the toilet is an online activity, but how do you find the plumber? Well, last century, you’d look one up in the Yellow

Pages, this-- This century, you Google

“plumber.” The trend is for us to go online

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Day 8 February 2013 – Webcast Transcript to do more and more things, and with the introduction of the NBN we can expect that that trend will only accelerate. So many opportunities await, as do many challenges for everyone, adults and children, as we all try to adapt. Now, to discuss some of these issues, I’m joined by, uh, over here, the only other male, so it should be fairly obvious who is, Richard Bean, Deputy Chair of the Australian Communications and Media

Authority. Next to him is asso-- Associate

Professor Jane Burns, who’s CEO of the

Young and Well Cooperative Research Centre.

We’ve been hearing a bit about their work earlier. She’s also a psychiatrist and holds fellowships at both the Centre For

Youth Mental Health at the University of

Melbourne and at the Brain and Mind

Institute at the University of Sydney.

She’s single-handedly destroying Sydney-

Melbourne rivalry.

JANE/STEPHANIE/RICHARD

(laugh)

JAMES

You know, bringing them together in a great big ball of love. And I think I can take these off now actually, here we go.

JAMES takes off his headphones.

JAMES (CONT’D)

And Stephanie Brantz on my left, who’s sports-- Uh, uh, is a sports and events presenter for ABC Television and Ambassador for the Interactive Gaming and

Entertainment Association. So welcome to you all. Thank you very much for coming.

Now, Jane, can we-- We begin with you. Has the presence of technology, do you think, integrated online and offline activities to-- To the extent that, as I was saying in my intro, kids don’t really see the difference so much anymore?

JANE nods and holds out her hand for the microphone and JAMES hands the microphone to her.

JAMES (CONT’D)

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Oh, yes, the microphone. We’re sharing a microphone. I’m still getting used to that.

As JANE speaks, an identifying card appears that reads: ‘JANE

BURNS CEO, Young and Well Cooperative Research Centre’.

JANE

(laughs) We are sharing a mic, right. And

I-- I must, um, uh, just change-- I am not a psychiatrist, uh-- I-- I think my colleagues would, uh, murder me if they, uh-- If I was called a psychiatrist.

JAMES

My apologies.

JANE

But that’s all right. That’s fine. Um, look, I think, we’ve always thought about the online-offline. And we as adults talk about online-offline, but when you talk to young people, they just do not see a difference between their online and offline. And increasingly, particularly with smartphones and with tablets, the access to technologies, the access to the internet, um, there is a blurring of the lines. And, uh, in many ways it’s a good blurring. Um, it’s about being connected, it’s about meaningful relationships. It’s about, um, sharing information, sharing digital content, and that can be great for young people, um, and their sense of identity, so I think, increasingly, and we’ve just got our national survey results, so I’m busy burying myself in that, increasingly we’re seeing that young people just don’t make the distinction between online and offline.

JAMES

Are there, um--? Are there ways in which offline is completely superseded by-- Or which online is completely superseded offline? And-- And are the kids doing more of some things and not doing other things as much as they used to? I guess the stereotype is they used to ride their bike up and down the street and now they play videogames. Is there some truth in that?

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What aren’t kids doing anymore? Are they--?

Are they losing as well as gaining?

While STEPHANIE speaks, an identifying card appears that reads:

‘STEPHANIE BRANTZ Ambassador Interactive Gaming and Entertainment

Association’.

STEPHANIE

I think they, uh, to a certain extent, some may see it as-- As a loss, that they’re less inclined to go and be, uh, active outdoors, but I think that comes down to the parenting, and the supervision if you limit their online time, then you can make sure that they’re still, uh, being healthy and active and-- And those sorts of things outside of the-- Outside of the home.

However, with the things they’re doing differently is, uh, a lot of the, uh, teaching methods have now gone into online, interactive games, and they can really help kids develop. They find it much more fun to, say, perhaps to, uh, something like a mathletics game.

JAMES

Mm.

STEPHANIE

Than to learn their times tables.

JAMES

Mm.

STEPHANIE

And they still learn their-- Their mathematics, but they’re doing it in a way that engages them and keeps them interested.

JAMES

I-- I-- I guess it comes down to what that time replaces to an extent. I mean, we all think, oh, they used to be riding their bike outside, but if it replaces time--

Interactive gaming replaces time used to spend watching television, then arguably, it’s, uh-- It’s a more skills-sort of based thing, isn’t it?

STEPHANIE

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Well, in fact, a study that done at QUT actually found that, uh, video gaming or gaming for kids, uh, was better for their fine motor development and those sorts of skills and it was better for them than watching television.

JAMES

Mm.

STEPHANIE

So, uh, there-- There are certainly some benefits to that, and I think that if--

JAMES

Mm. Well, now, it’s fair to say that almost anything is better for you than watching television.

JAMES/STEPHANIE

(laughing)

STEPHANIE

It depends on what you’re watching, James.

JAMES

Yeah, ABC excepted, obviously. There, I almost got us both in trouble with one comment.

STEPHANIE

But there’s certainly a-- An educational element to gaming as well. And I think, uh, what the good professor was referring to about meaningful relationships, uh, it’s wonderful for kids to be able to connect and to be able to talk to their friends.

It’s when they blur the lines between a virtual friend and a real friend. And--

JAMES

Mm.

STEPHANIE

And they forget that these people don’t have faces.

JAMES

Yeah.

STEPHANIE

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And they don’t know them and they’re not their mates. And that’s, uh, parental supervision again coming into-- Into play.

JAMES

Richard, your thoughts on the-- On the blurring amongst young people of online and offline.

As RICHARD speaks, an identifying card appears that reads:

‘RICHARD BEAN Deputy Chair, Australian Communications and Media

Authority’.

RICHARD

Well, I’m thinking about the things that have disappeared. Blackboards is clearly one of them, and uh--

JAMES

Yeah.

RICHARD

Uh, clearly there are huge advances in teaching in the classroom, apart from the easy access that kids have to do their own research, of course, online. I think there’s one thing that, uh, adults perhaps get a bit hung up on and that’s how the fears and concerns associated with anonymity online, which is not the focus for kids, um-- Most kids interact with--

Communicate with their friends, um, as friends. They’re not pretending to be someone else. And it’s an-- It’s an extension of their friendship circle and their communications, um, methods, really.

Um, when I was a kid, people would hide in their bedroom and spend hours on the telephone. And, uh, you were mentioning that perhaps an online activity is a replacement for television, then not a replacement for riding a bike, maybe we shouldn’t be so concerned. And really, a lot of the activities which they undertake, and this goes to the blurring point, are the same sorts of activities that children have always undertaken, they’re just using new technologies to do it all. New ways of doing it.

JAMES

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And-- And-- And a great example of that is-

- Is communication and socializing, isn’t it?

RICHARD

Yeah, absolutely. And of course there are challenges associated with that that

Stephanie just alluded to, there are larger groups of people, the randoms, who aren’t really friends.

JAMES (O.S.)

(laughs)

RICHARD

And one of the things that, um, younger children need to learn to get used to when they’re navigating this is, you know, who their friends are and who they aren’t. I mean, they know, but you do need to exercise a little care when you’re helping your kids first navigate social networking, to help them make that distinction between all the people around who you might perhaps have some passing acquaintance with, who aren’t really your friends. But that’s true of real life as well.

JAMES (O.S.)

Yeah, well, well. Indeed.

JAMES (CONT’D)

Um, parenting-- I mean, a lot of parents say, “Oh, these new things” and “I don’t know about them” and “I don’t know what to do.” But essentially, do they require new parenting skills or just, uh, an adjustment of-- Of skills that parents have had for thousands of years.

JANE

(laughs)

Or tried to have.

JAMES

STEPHANIE

(laughs)

JANE

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I think-- I think the real challenge to parents, and I’m the mum of a six-year-old, a four-year-old and a two-year-old, is that it’s so unknown. It-- We’re the last generation who will know a world without technologies. And so as we embark on trying to understand what our children are doing, we’re really challenged with, well, we don’t actually know anything about it either, so. I think the parents, and certainly the report that was put out today by the Young and Well CRC, it is really about educating yourself, um, being aware of privacy settings and-- And you know, knowing what is going on in the online space, but also having those conversations with your children. And starting those conversations early so that they really are teaching you. They are the pioneers in this space. And despite the concerns, and there are concerns with anything large like the internet and technologies, um, there will be risks. But young people take the skills that they learn in their offline environments into their online spaces. So if your parenting skills are about being respectful, looking after yourself, um, not talking to strangers, and not connecting with anyone that you don’t know, um, putting in place privacy settings. All of the things that you talk to your kids about anyway, they’ll be safe online. And--

STEPHANIE (O.S.)

Mm.

JANE

The lines of communications need to be open, and you need to continue to have those conversations, because the technology moves so quickly.

JAMES

Mm.

JANE

So that’s our message.

JAMES

Mm. Mm.

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STEPHANIE (CON’T)

Mm.

JAMES

Stephanie, you’ve also got three children, haven’t you? But a little bit older than, uh, Jane’s. Ha-- Have you got-- Have you navigated through this with your own kids?

Have you got, uh, any further advice?

JANE/STEPHANIE

(laugh)

STEPHANIE

Well, mine are a little bit older than both

Jane’s and Richard’s, I think. My oldest is eighteen now.

JAMES

Mm.

STEPHANIE

And then a thirteen- and an eleven-yearold. And it’s been quite interesting to watch them move from, uh, things like a

Club Penguin space, where you create a

Penguin and you go out and meet other

Penguins, and it’s all very nice and you--

You don’t suspect anyone untoward is lurking on those sites. Then to one, uh, a boy as he gets older, he’s playing those sort of run-around and mow everything down sort of game.

JAMES

Yeah.

STEPHANIE

With a headset, talking to people in the

States, uh, in Europe and you-- You don’t know where they are, and the only thing that I would always recommend is make sure that you not only supervise, but get to know what they’re doing. When you’re saying, is there new skills in parenting, play with them.

JAMES

Mm.

STEPHANIE

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My only problem is I need him to help me

“level” because I can’t actually play as well as he can, so I can’t see what he’s going to be exposed to in the next level.

JAMES

Yeah.

STEPHANIE

Uh, but getting to know what they’re doing, and, uh, interacting with them, playing the games with them to-- To really find out what they’re up to, who they’re speaking to and I will give a, uh, uh, short warning that I had was when the eldest boy was playing a game, he left to go to a friend’s house and his younger brother said, “Can I finish the game?” And I said yeah, sure.

And I came back into the room to hear him having an argument with this online person, who’d said, “I’m going to steal all your points” or something or other, and was starting to threaten him in a way for a-- A twelve-year-old…

JAMES

Yeah, right.

STEPHANIE

…was quite alarming.

JAMES

Mm.

STEPHANIE

Which was when I went and checked the game, played it, and went, “You’re never playing that again.”

JAMES

Yeah, yeah.

STEPHANIE

Until you’re eighteen.

STEPHANIE/RICHARD/JANE

(laugh)

JAMES

And particularly not with that other child.

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STEPHANIE

Uh, no.

JAMES

Um, let’s talk about some of the ways that, uh, adding an online dimension can, uh, enhance or benefit a child’s, uh, life experience. What about, um, in-- In education. Richard, have you--? Have you got some thoughts there?

RICHARD

Oh, I think that’s a pretty easy one. I think it’s undeniable that, um, the sorts of technologies that are available in most schools now, have made learning experiences multi-dimensional in a way that, you know, sitting in front of the blackboard was not, when I was in primary school.

JAMES (O.S.)

Mm.

RICHARD

And kids are able to have interactive learning experiences in the classroom, which I think research indicates are, uh, the sort of learning experiences that mean that the knowledge sticks, uh, in a way that just sitting there and receiving lectures, um, doesn’t. Um, so I think that’s pretty uncontroversial.

JAMES (O.S.)

Yeah.

RICHARD

That in education in particular, there are tremendous positives…

JAMES (O.S.)

Yeah.

RICHARD

…associated with all of this.

JAMES (O.S.)

Jane, what about in-- In counseling and health services?

JANE

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I think it’d be fair to say for the first time in access to health services we will see a-- A change in the disparity. So there’s been real issues around access in rural regional or remote communities for young people around, um, counseling services, professionals don’t tend to like to go to those communities. And for the first time, if we can actually create an online service that young people engage with, are a part of in shaping, we’ll be able to provide support to young people in ways that we’ve never imagined. And I think, the interesting thing for me has been around the uses of different technologies. So, gaming, as an example, engage young men. Um, and we know that young men don’t access health services, um, they don’t wanna go and speak to a GP.

They-- They-- There’s a stigma attached to seeing a school counselor. And so the first-- For the first time, we can really look to these technologies in innovative ways, in ways that will really create services that young people feel comfortable using, want to use, can access really 24/7, and the technologies are moving so quickly that we’ll have avatars, we’ll have artificial intelligence. Now the professions need to keep up with that, because young people are so far advanced in their use of these technologies, that the professions are falling behind. Um, but I think we’re really gonna revolutionize mental health services in Australia, and potentially in the world, and that’s really exciting for us.

JAMES

And-- And is there any evidence that you or your organization have, uh-- Have picked up or that you’re aware of, of there being any sort of pushback against this new technology, against social media?

Particularly, I guess, you know, things like Facebook, and-- And the way we use it to communicate. At first everyone went,

“Wow, this sounds great. This is so great.

This is so great.” And then all of a sudden, oh, wow, I’ve sort of, you know--

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There’s all these disadvantages as well, and people deciding to go, um, offline and actually send out party invitations again, via, at least email, if not the mail?

JANE/STEPHANIE

(laugh)

JANE

I think-- Look, I think, um, with the young people we work with, um, and certainly the national survey, ninety-nine percent of young people are using technologies.

JAMES

Mm. Mm.

JANE

Internet, smartphones, um, and most are engaged in it. Now that’s not to say that some aren’t taking time out, and that’s actually okay. Um, we talk a lot about mindfulness therapy, and, um, being in the moment and giving yourself space. And so young people themselves are saying okay,

“Well, let’s set some limits,” um, “Let’s think about when to use it.” From a professional point of view, we certainly push, um, the idea that, you know, you don’t wanna be online 24/7, um, internet addiction is real, um, and it does affect a small portion of the population. But if you’re really sensible about it and think about it and certainly when you talk to the young people that we work with, they set their own rules, their own limits. Um, and it’s a small proportion who are at risk. So we wanna watch out for those who are at risk. Um, and we wanna really promote the good behaviours online that make you healthy and safe and happy and-- And that can really facilitate your-- Your well- being.

JAMES

Mm. So this year’s Safer Internet Day is focusing on rights and responsibilities.

What do you think are some of the rights and responsibilities that are common to both the online and the offline world? Is

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Day 8 February 2013 – Webcast Transcript it safety? Is it privacy? What do you think, Stephanie?

STEPHANIE

Uh, I think that a lot of the rules apply to both. It’s reapplying them to the online world.

JAMES

Mm.

STEPHANIE

And from where I come from with iGEA it’s--

Uh, in-- In the family space it’s about, uh, teaching your kids responsibilities, teaching them to behave in an acceptable way online and offline, uh, don’t give information to strangers that you wouldn’t, uh, give to someone if you met them face to face, and, uh, we’ve got quite a fun one that we kinda call the “Grandma Rule,” and, uh, that’s about…

JAMES

(laughs)

STEPHANIE

If you wouldn’t want grandma to read it or see it, don’t put it online.

JANE (O.S.)

(laughs)

JAMES

(laughs) Yeah, that’s a very good one, isn’t it? Because it’s so easy. You know, it’s the difference between-- Between writing a letter, then having to get a stamp, then having to get an envelope, and having to put it in, then have to go--

Having to go and post it. At one of those points you’re gonna think that, hang on, maybe I shouldn’t have wri-- Shouldn’t have done that. Whereas, everything’s so instant online.

STEPHANIE

Absolutely, and-- And as soon as you put it out there-- Um, I have, uh-- Had an incident with, uh, a friend of one of my children in their class, took a photo that-

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- That was a little bit inappropriate. I mean, they’re-- They’re eight, so it wasn’t ridiculous, but it was a little inappropriate, and they put it on their, uh-- Is it called Kik, I think it’s called?

And, uh, so other kids saw it, and when the child’s mother saw it, they complained, and

I thought, that parent really should be keeping an eye…

JAMES

Mm.

STEPHANIE

…on what their child is doing, because they’re all taking picture on their phones, and they’re away. And they don’t realize that as soon as it’s gone, it’s very difficult to get that back.

JAMES

Oh, yeah.

STEPHANIE

And I think, as parents, it’s very important to teach your children about what is acceptable to be putting out there and about respecting other people’s privacy as you would expect them to be respecting your own.

JAMES

Richard, what do you think about some of the rights and responsibilities that we should be, uh, aware of and try and cultivate both online and also offline.

RICHARD

Well, I think-- I agree the-- With

Stephanie. The rights and responsibilities are pretty much the same. There isn’t a new invented set of those, but what we need to be conscious of and what we-- We need lead our children through is that there are some new consequences of not behaving in the ways that generally speaking, the kids understand they should behave in their offline lives as well as their online lives, and they’re associated with the things we’ve just been talking about. It’s

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Day 8 February 2013 – Webcast Transcript instant and, you know, for people of my generation, the email was the danger.

JANE (O.S.)

(laughs)

RICHARD

You know, you-- You’ve-- You fire off this email in a moment of rage…

JAMES/STEPHANIE/JANE

(laugh)

RICHARD (CONT’D)

…when, if you’d had to write it down, it never would have come out of the bottom drawer.

JAMES (O.S.)

Mm.

RICHARD

Well, it-- It’s more instant now with, um--

With social media. And these things, it’s not only children that get into trouble, of course, there are things in the news every other month, uh, where an adult has tweeted something they should have thought twice about.


(laugh)

JAMES

And, it-- And isn’t it wonderful, whenever one of those things gets into the news, there’s always, “three hours later, the

Tweet was deleted.”

RICHARD/STEPHANIE/JANE

(laugh)

JAMES (CONT’D)

That doesn’t stop you getting into the news, unfortunately, that you deleted it.

The fact that it was there for even an hour, um, puts you in trouble. So I guess that’s almost like learning a new-- Because everything is so instant, it’s learning your own sort of delays, isn’t it. Uh, learning-- Learning not to just

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Day 8 February 2013 – Webcast Transcript instinctively do things instantly because you can.

RICHARD

Yeah, that’s right. And learning about the consequences of your actions is something that every human being has to do. That’s one of the things that childhood is about.

But it takes a long time, you know. People don’t really get very good at, uh, thinking about the consequences of their actions until, you know, relatively--

JAMES (O.S.)

When? When? When does that happen?

EVERYONE laughs.

JANE (O.S.)

(laughing) Never.

RICHARD

Thirty? I don’t know. (laughs) Um, and so this is one of the things, really, that you need to work through together.

JAMES (O.S.)

Mm.

RICHARD

Um, the other element, the other-- The sort of flipside of the instant--

Instantaneousness of this of course is the permanence. And it’s up there instantly and it can stay there, basically forever, and these are messages that are-- Form a big part of some of the Cybersmart work that we do with, um-- With school kids around the country.

JAMES

Mm. Jane, what do you think about rights and responsibilities?

JANE

Uh, look, I-- I agree with, um-- With, um, everything that’s been said, um. I think it’s fair to say that, um, adolescence and early adulthood is about taking risk and from taking risk you learn, and that’s about experience. And so what we try to do,

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Day 8 February 2013 – Webcast Transcript um, and-- In anything, and it doesn’t matter whether it’s on the internet or whether it’s, you know, driving a car or crossing a road or, um, you know, what you might do at school around, um, respectful relationships and bullying. You have to learn from your mistakes. And the reality is that young people are gonna make mistakes, um, as we all have. And I think sometimes adults forget that they made mistakes when they were teenagers. And I know I certainly made plenty of them.

STEPHANIE

(laughs)

JANE

Um, and good parenting is about having those solid conversations about what’s happened, how can we learn from the experience, absolutely setting young people up, um, so that they are respectful online, that they understand privacy. All of the things that we’ve talked about. But the reality is that a part of life and a part of learning is that you make mistakes and that you learn from those mistakes. And so you wanna minimize, um, the impact of those mistakes. And I think they’re the conversations-- You know, the eight-yearold, that’s-- It’s an eight-year-old, it’s good to have that conversation about what happened, because, hopefully, when they’re thirteen, fourteen, they won’t make that same mistake again. Um, and they’re the conversations that I think we’re continually talking about and pushing, because that’s about growing up.

JAMES

Uh, do you think though-- There are different expectations we have of ourselves and others about how we behave offline and-

- And online. Like, uh, for example, I’m a nice fellow, you can tell that. I try--

(chuckle)


JAMES (CONT’D)

I’m polite and I’m--

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STEPHANIE

You’ve told us.

JAMES

I’m nice, but-- So yeah. Sometimes I can, you know, fire off a sharp email to someone, and-- And say things that I wouldn’t say if I were…

STEPHANIE

Mm.

JAMES

…talking to them. Sometimes, I’m sure, kids who aren’t bullies face to face, you know, are, uh, uh, cyberbullies. And I’m sure that’s same with adults as well.

STEPHANIE

Mm-hm.

JAMES

Uh, is it just that it beca-- The ano-- Uh, anonota-- (mispronounced) Anononamimaty.

STEPHANIE/JANE

(chuckle)

STEPHANIE

Anonymity.

JAMES

The fact that you don’t-- You know, we’re not face to face it creates it, or is it because this is all new and we’re still learning. What’s the explanation?

Stephanie?

STEPHANIE

I think there is an element of, uh, when you discover that you are anonymous, there’s, uh, a feeling of, uh, invulnerability that you can write whatever you’d like. Uh, and that’s where it’s important, as Jane was saying, to make sure that, uh, particularly adolescence and teaching that from a young age up, they’re aware that, uh-- That there is a responsibility, uh, to being online. Um, I always encourage my children, and-- And children of, uh, other parents that I know,

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Day 8 February 2013 – Webcast Transcript to make sure that their kids use a-- A nickname, uh, when they’re playing games online and things like that.

JAMES

Mm.

STEPHANIE

But you’ve also gotta be aware that you tell the child that this is just because we don’t want these people to know who you are, where you are, uh, and-- And it’s a safety thing. It’s not a “lying and now I can be anything.”

JAMES

Right.

STEPHANIE

Uh, and as you say, we-- We’ve all, uh, done the “fire off an email” and-- And sort of said something that we-- We wouldn’t say, as Richard said, uh, face to face. And it’s important to, uh-- To remember, uh, who you’re speaking to and how they are gonna feel when they would read it. Um, and don’t hit “reply all,” I guess. (laughs)

JAMES

And don’t hit-- The Golden Rule: don’t hit reply all. Um, Jane, have you any thoughts about what-- What’s behind that sort of disparity in the way many of us act online and offline.

JANE

Um, look, I-- I think there’s certainly examples of, um, one-offs where people have done things that they wouldn’t normally do in a face-to-face environment. And you talk to teachers, and they can talk about their great student who suddenly, all of a sudden, became an online bully. Um, and that’s human nature again, where you’re not really following through understanding what your consequences are. So when I talk to young people and when we talk to young people about how to manage that, we talk about empowering young people and the power that they have, in that they can block a bully, they can turn their computer off,

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Day 8 February 2013 – Webcast Transcript uh, they can not respond. Um, so in many ways, you do have more power with technologies that you do with a face to face. And I know, you know, as a-- As a kid growing up in a country town, um, the bully was waiting on the-- The side of the road for you as you’re riding your bike to get to school.

JAMES

Mm.

STEPHANIE (O.S.)

(laughs)

JANE

And there was no way you could escape that.

And, I think, in many ways, we do and we can and we have an opportunity to allow young people to, um, individually turn off the bully, or as a community. So a lot of your social networks are about building community, building trust, building rapport, and the community can actually jump in as the bystander and say that behaviour is not acceptable. We don’t like the way you’re talking, it’s not, uh, nice to make fun of someone. Um, the Keep it

Tame campaign, which we ran, was really about how do you keep your online communities safe and how do you keep your online and your offline communities safe, and what does that look like. And the-- The rules are the same.

JAMES

Mm.

JANE

So that respect for each other, respect--

Respectful relationships, respectful behaviour, trust, um, engaging each other in ways that are about embracing diversity.

And I think, again, that’s a really positive thing from technologies.

JAMES

And wouldn’t it have been good if all those years ago, when you were riding your bike to school, when the bully was there,

Page 21 of 26


Day 8 February 2013 – Webcast Transcript suddenly the whole community just popped up.


(laugh)

JAMES (CONT’D)

And shouted at him, “That’s not appropriate! Stop it!”

JANE

That’s right.

JAMES

Where were they then? Uh, Richard, tell us, what--? What do you think, uh, are some things that’s paren--? Uh, oldies, parents and teachers can do so that they understand the ways that youngies are using technology? And-- And-- And the sort of the differences given that they’re growing up with things that we couldn’t even imagine.

RICHARD

I’m still fantasizing about having a button to make those bullies at the school dance disappear.

Yeah, it’d be good.

JAMES


(laugh)

RICHARD

Um, the key to it is to, especially when they’re younger, do it together. And let’s face it, we’re gonna learn a lot from them about navigating these technologies. I certainly am learning now from my children.

And when they first venture into the online communities part of it, and move beyond, you know, playing the tiny little app games and so on. If you’re there with them, you learn along with them and you can give them the sort of advice that you would hope to give them as they grow up with you in the--

In their on-- Offline lives.

JAMES

Mm. Jane?

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JANE

Yeah, look, I, uh, don’t think I’ve got anything more to add. I think that’s absolutely fundamental and key to it. Um.

JAMES

Mm.

JANE

We are now having conversations with our--

Not my six-year-old, ‘cause he, um, has a--

A-- Quite a severe disability, but my fouryear-old about technologies and using technologies and, um, what to do and how to do it, and, um, she understands that you have limits and that, you know, you’re not gonna be on Mummy’s phone 24/7.

JAMES

Mm.

STEPHANIE

(laughs)

JANE

But I do have to laugh. I dropped my son off, um, this morning and I saw her get out of her car seat, get into my front seat, and get my phone and start clicking away on it. Um, so we then had a conversation about, you don’t get out of your car seat, you don’t use Mummy’s phone, um-- But it is an ongoing conversation. I think the earlier you start to have those conversations, the better.

STEPHANIE (O.S.)

Mm.

JANE

Um, as you do teaching your kids to cross the road or as you do teaching them that, you know, it’s good to be in bed at a reasonable time.

STEPHANIE (O.S.)

Mm.

JANE

You don’t stay up all night. Um, so I think it is about early conversations, early

Page 23 of 26


Day 8 February 2013 – Webcast Transcript understanding of and use of-- And as

Richard said, you know, I’m learning more from my kids than they’re learning from me, probably.

JAMES

Mm.

JANE

And will continue to do so.

STEPHANIE

Mm.

JAMES

Make sure you don’t leave the keys in your car.

EVERYONE laughs.

JAMES

(laughs) Ignition. (to Stephanie) Um, what do you think? Ways in which-- In which us oldies can stay aware of-- Of what it all means to them and-- And how it all works for them.

STEPHANIE

Oldies, speak for yourself. (laughs)

JAMES

Yeah, well, I mean-- I mean, as a relative term, compared to your children.

STEPHANIE

No, absolutely-- Hello, I st-- I had a

Walkman. I used a typewriter.

JAMES

Yeah.

STEPHANIE

I’m with you. And I think absolutely what, uh-- What everyone here’s been saying is, spend time with it, game with them, use the computer with them. Uh, make sure that you’re aware of what they’re doing. Uh, in our house as they’re young, the, uh, computer and gaming facilities are all in an open space, where I will walk past at any time, so then they know that there’s

Page 24 of 26


Day 8 February 2013 – Webcast Transcript the, uh-- The parent over the shoulder, uh-

- I only have one on-- Who’s old enough to be on Facebook. And, uh, a rule of him going on it, was that I was his-- He befriended me. He is my only friend on

Facebook. How sad is that.

EVERYONE laughs.

STEPHANIE (CONT’D)

Uh, and it’s so that I can keep a check on it, and as soon as he stops blocking me,

I’m paying the electricity bill, his

Facebook will go.

JAMES

Yeah.

STEPHANIE

But, uh, there-- There’s those sorts of things. Just making sure you’re involved and as Jane said--

JAMES

And-- And-- And what do you say when they say, “Oh, Mum! That’s-- You’re such-- That-

- That’s so old fashioned.”

STEPHANIE

Hm. Move out.

JAMES

Right.

EVERYONE laughs.

JAMES (CONT’D)

Too bad.

JAMES puts on his headphones again.

STEPHANIE

No, it’s-- It’s just about, uh, getting them to realize that I’m happy for them to do it, and I don’t wanna read the content particularly of what they’re posting, it’s the tone and it’s about that safety and responsibility and making sure that they’re okay. Because it’s-- Technology is only going to increase.

Page 25 of 26



JAMES

Yeah.

STEPHANIE

So we have to stay up with it.

JAMES

Stephanie, Jane, and Richard, thank you so much.

STEPHANIE

Thank you for having us.

JANE/RICHARD

Thank you.

JAMES

Lovely to have you on the program. (to camera) On behalf of the Australian

Communications and Media Authority’s

Cybersmart program, we hope you’ve enjoyed the broadcast, uh, and got something of value from it. Maybe even a-- A few things of value from it. Thanks to everyone who helped organize, uh, it and all the guests for giving up their time. The next voice you hear will be Russell-- But thank you,

Rosalie. The next voice you hear will be

Russell Prue’s as he begins the UK Safer

Internet Centre’s marathon twelve-hour program. We’ll end with a little bit of music. All the best. Happy Safer Internet

Day and good evening.

The TITLE CARD from the opening appears again, with: ‘SAFER

INTERNET DAY WEBCAST’ and ‘FINAL PANEL SESSION’ with ACMA and

CYBER(SMART:) logos.

FADE OUT.

Page 26 of 26

Australian Communications and Media Authority – Safer Internet

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