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Sokrates
Fra den totalt misvisende udgave på http://da.wikiquote.org/wiki/Sokrates
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Sokrates
Sokrates - (470-399 f.Kr.)
Biografi på Wikipedia
Billeder, videoer og lydfiler på Wikicommons
Sokrates (469-399 f.Kr.) var en græsk filosof fra Athen. Hans indflydelse, der er formidlet igennem hans
elev Platon, er blevet så skelsættende, at han er en af de mest kendte og respekterede tænkere. Skellet mellem
Sokrates og Platons tanker er ikke helt klart, da Platon særligt i sine senere dialoger lægger sin egen filosofi i
munden på Sokrates. Sokrates har lagt navn til de tidligere klassiske filosoffer som i dag benævnes
førsokratikerne.
Citater
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Det ureflekterede liv er ikke værd at leve.
Livet er dejligt at leve, bare man har karaktersvaghed nok til at nyde det.
Alt jeg ved er, at jeg intet ved.
Et liv uden stadig selvprøvelse er ikke menneskeværdigt.
Vore dages ungdom elsker luksus. Den har dårlige manerer, foragter autoritet, har ingen respekt for ældre
mennesker og snakker, når den skulle arbejde. De unge rejser sig ikke længere op, når ældre kommer ind i et
værelse. Den modsiger sine forældre, skryder op i selskaber, sluger desserten ved spisebordet, lægger
benene overkors og tyranniserer lærerne.
Lægerne har den lykke, at solen skinner over deres helbredelser, og deres fejl skjules af tre favne jord.
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Om man skal gifte sig eller lade være? Gør, hvad du vil, og du vil angre det.
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En ærlig mand er altid ærlig.
[redigér]Eksterne
henvisninger
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Sokrates-citater på Citatbanken.dk (Dansk)
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Sokrates-citater på Manuela.dk (Udvalgt af Manuela Rasmussen)
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Sokrates-citater på Citatlisten.dk (Dansk)
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2
Fra: http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Socrates
Misattributed
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The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect
for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their
households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter
before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers.
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see Respectfully Quoted: A Dictionary of Quotations Requested from the Congressional
Research Service, Edited by Suzy Platt, 1989, number 195. [se side tre]
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See also this discussion about the topic. [se side 3 nederst]
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Actually a paraphrase of a quote from Aristophanes' The Clouds, a comedic play known for
its caricature of Socrates.
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Education is the kindling of a flame, not the filling of a vessel.
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No findable citation to Socrates. First appears in this form in the 1990s, such as in the
Douglas Bradley article "Lighting a Flame in the Kickapoo Valley", Wisconsin Ideas, UW System,
1994. It appears to be a variant on a statement from Plutarch in On Listening to Lectures: "The
correct analogy for the mind is not a vessel that needs filling, but wood that needs igniting — no
more — and then it motivates one towards originality and instills the desire for truth." Alternate
translation, from the Loeb Classical Library edition, 1927: "For the mind does not require filling like a
bottle, but rather, like wood, it only requires kindling to create in it an impulse to think independently
and an ardent desire for the truth." Often quoted as, "The mind is not a vessel to be filled but a fire
to be kindled." Variants of the quote that are correctly attributed to Plutarch but which substitute
"education" for "the mind" date back at least as far as the 1960s, as seen in the 1968 book Vision
and Image by James Johnson Sweeney, p. 119.
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Variants with "education" are also sometimes misattributed to William Butler Yeats, as in the
1993 book The Harper Book of Quotations (third edition), p. 138. In the previously-mentioned Vision
and Image, the misquote of Plutarch involving "education" (which has exactly the same wording as
the quote attributed to Yeats in The Harper Book of Quotations) is immediately preceded by a
different quote from Yeats ("Culture does not consist in acquiring opinions but in getting rid of
them"), so it's possible this is the source of the confusion--see the snippets here and here.
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The misattribution may also be related to a statement about Plato's views made by Benjamin
Jowett in the introduction to his translation of Plato's Republic (in which all the main ideas were
attributed to Socrates, as in all of Plato's works), on p. cci of the third edition (1888): "Education is
represented by him, not as the filling of a vessel, but as the turning the eye of the soul towards the
light." Jowett seems to be loosely paraphrasing a statement Plato attributes to Socrates in a
dialogue with Glaucon, in sections 518b-518c of book 7 of The Republic, where Socrates says:
"education is not in reality what some people proclaim it to be in their professions. What they aver is
that they can put true knowledge into a soul that does not possess it, as if they were inserting vision
into blind eyes ... But our present argument indicates that the true analogy for this indwelling power
in the soul and the instrument whereby each of us apprehends is that of an eye that could not be
converted to the light from the darkness except by turning the whole body."
3
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Fra: http://www.bartleby.com/73/195.html :
Respectfully Quoted: A Dictionary of Quotations. 1989.
NUMBER:
195
AUTHOR:
Socrates (469–399 B.C.)
QUOTATION:
ATTRIBUTION:
The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for
authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of
exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They
no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents,
chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and
tyrannize their teachers.
Attributed to SOCRATES by Plato, according to William L. Patty and Louise
S. Johnson, Personality and Adjustment, p. 277 (1953).
This passage was very popular in the 1960s and its essence was used by the
Mayor of Amsterdam, Gijsbert van Hall, following a street demonstration in
1966, as reported by The New York Times, April 3, 1966, p. 16.
This use prompted Malcolm S. Forbes to write an editorial on youth.—
Forbes,April 15, 1966, p. 11. In that same issue, under the heading “Side
Lines,” pp. 5–6, is a summary of the efforts of researchers and scholars to
confirm the wording of Socrates, or Plato, but without success. Evidently,
the quotation is spurious.
SUBJECTS:
Children
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Fra: http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=398104
Question
Subject: Quote About Ill-Behaved Kids -- Aristotle? Socrates?
Posted: 07 Sep 2004 16:30 PDT
Plato?
Expires: 07 Oct 2004 16:30 PDT
Category: Miscellaneous
Question ID: 398104
Asked by: pacmarrin-ga
List Price: $5.00
I am looking for a quote I remember reading by one of the famous
philosophers. It was about how ill-behaved children were and when one
reads it you think he is talking about today's kids, not x-number of
years ago. What is the quote and who said it? Thanks!
Request for Question Clarification by pinkfreud-ga on 07 Sep 2004 16:35 PDT
Is this the quote you're thinking of?
"The children now love luxury. They have bad manners, contempt for
authority, they show disrespect to their elders.... They no longer
rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents,
chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their
legs, and are tyrants over their teachers."
4
Or this one?
"The young people of today think of nothing but themselves. They have
no reverence for parents or old age. They are impatient of all
restraint. They talk as if they alone knew everything and what passes
for wisdom with us is foolishness with them. As for girls, they are
forward, immodest and unwomanly in speech, behaviour and dress."
If either of these is the correct quote, I'll be glad to tell you who
is credited with authorship.
Clarification of Question by pacmarrin-ga on 07 Sep 2004 18:48 PDT
It's the first quote (the children love luxury ...etc.)
Thank you.
Answer
Subject: Re: Quote About Ill-Behaved Kids -- Aristotle? Socrates? Plato?
Answered By: pinkfreud-ga on 07 Sep 2004 18:55 PDT
Rated:
I am glad to have been able to locate the quote you need. Many sources
attribute this quote to Socrates. Its actual origin is in dispute, but
the dispute is an interesting one:
======================================================================
The quote is commonly attributed to Socrates, but apparently there is
no conclusive evidence that he actually said it. The Library of
Congress notes that this quote is "attributed to Socrates by Plato" in
a 1950's book the name of which escapes me.
The quote may have come from Plato's Republic Book 4, where Socrates
is quoted saying the following regarding things that he thinks have
been neglected: "I mean such things as these: ? when the young are to
be silent before their elders; how they are to show respect to them by
standing and making them sit; what honour is due to parents; what
garments or shoes are to be worn; the mode of dressing the hair;
deportment and manners in general. You would agree with me? ? Yes."
The Greek philosopher Plato studied under Socrates. Plato complained
about the youth of the day, also. "What is happening to our young
people? They disrespect their elders, they disobey their parents. They
ignore the law. They riot in the streets inflamed with wild notions.
Their morals are decaying. What is to become of them?" I think this is
a direct quote, but can't find the reference at the moment.
Here's another one:
"I see no hope for the future
frivolous youth of today, for
words... When I was young, we
respectful of elders, but the
[disrespectful] and impatient
of our people if they are dependent on
certainly all youth are reckless beyond
were taught to be discreet and
present youth are exceedingly wise
of restraint" (Hesiod, 8th century BC).
Scouter Forums: Today's Kids
http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=35251&p=1
======================================================================
A question which arises periodically on alt.quotations is for the full
text and the source of the 'ancient' writing complaining about the bad
manners of youth nowadays. It is frequently suggested that Socrates
coined the material (almost certainly not true) although it is
occasionally attributed to Roman, Babylonian or other ancient sources.
The following material is courtesy of D.P.B. Smith, Jerry Melin, and
William Waterhouse (with some discussion also from Dave Bostock,
5
Daniel T. Earl, and Kurt Foster):
There are plenty of fake quotations around, and some of them have been
around for much more than thirty years. Any direct quotation from
'Socrates' is pretty suspect in the first place, since all we know
about Socrates is what others wrote about him -- no written work by
him has survived.
(From Jerry Melin) The book Nice Guys Finish Seventh: False Phrases,
Spurious Sayings, and Familiar Misquotations by Ralph Keyes (p. 20)
states:
...the mayor of Amsterdam attributed this observation to Socrates:
'The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for
authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in lace of
exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their
households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They
contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties
at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers.' This
wisdom from the grave was subsequently reported in the New York Times
and reprinted widely. After Malcolm Forbes included Socrates's [sic]
words in a Forbes magazine editorial entitled 'Youth,' his research
staff went crazy trying to prove their authenticity. They contacted a
wide range of librarians, classicists, and other experts on Socrates.
None knew of any source for the passage. The researchers finally
called Amsterdam's mayor, Gijsbert van Hall. Van Hall said he'd seen
the lines by Socrates in a Dutch book whose title he could not recall.
There the search ended. 'We suspect,' Forbes's [sic] researchers
concluded, '. . . that Socrates never did make those cracks about
Athenian youth.'
(From William C. Waterhouse) There has been some discussion of a
quotation attributed to Socrates, one version being this:
'The children now love luxury; they show disrespect for elders and
love chatter in place of exercise. Children are tyrants, not servants
of the households. They no longer rise when their elders enter the
room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up
dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize over their
teachers.'
I don't know how it started, but I've found that it was probably
produced by cutting down and modifying a speech by 'Right' in
Aristophanes' Clouds, 960ff. It's amusing to find it attributed to
Socrates, because of course Socrates in that play is the leading
representative of 'Wrong'.
Anyway, here (in the translation by Patric Dickinson) are some parts
of the speech that resemble the 'quotation' above:
. . .
A boy must hold his tongue among his elders.
. . .
Greed was abhorred, it was taboo to snatch
Radish tops, aniseed, or parsley before your elders,
Or to nibble kickshaws and giggle and twine one's feet.
. . .
So, you shall learn to hate the Agora,
And shun the baths and feel ashamed of smut;
. . .
And to get up and give your seat to your elders,
And not to behave towards your parents rudely
. . .
(From others) There are also sometimes suggestions that something
similar originated from ancient Sumer or Babylon, in particular,
something reputed to have been written on Babylonian clay tablets
6
thousands of years ago, a father complaining about how the rising
generation (his own son in particular) were lazy, disrespectful, were
going to make a mess of things, etc etc etc...
Another contribution was:
I see no hope for the future of our people if they are dependent on
the frivolous youth of today, for certainly all youth are reckless
beyond words.
When I was a boy, we were taught to be discrete and respectful of
elders, but the present youth are exceedingly wise and impatient of
restraint.
--- Hesiod, Eighth Century B.C.
From the alt.quotations newsgroup Fri, 03 May 2002
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=3cd28b96.753929%40news.earthlink.net&output
=gplain
======================================================================
I hope this is helpful. If anything is unclear or incomplete, or if a
link doesn't work for you, please request clarification; I'll be glad
to offer further assistance before you rate my answer.
Best regards,
pinkfreud
pacmarrin-ga rated this answer:
and gave an additional tip of: $2.00
Comments
Subject: Re: Quote About Ill-Behaved Kids -- Aristotle? Socrates? Plato?
From: pinkfreud-ga on 07 Sep 2004 19:44 PDT
Thank you for the five-star rating and the nice tip!
~pinkfreud
Subject: Re: Quote About Ill-Behaved Kids -- Aristotle? Socrates? Plato?
From: pinkfreud-ga on 08 Sep 2004 15:52 PDT
In case anyone is curious about the source of the second quote that I
mentioned in my Request for Clarification, here's some info:
"The world is passing through troublous times. The young people of
today think of nothing but themselves. They have no reverence for
parents or old age. They are impatient of all restraint. They talk as
if they knew everything, and what passes for wisdom with us is
foolishness with them. As for the girls, they are forward, immodest
and unladylike in speech, behavior and dress."
Who wrote that, and when do you think it was written? Your own
parents, last week? Ann Landers last year? A politician in the 60's?
Actually it is an extract from a sermon preached by Peter the Hermit
in A.D. 1274! That?s over 700 years ago.
First Evangelical Free Church
http://www.efree.org/sermons/commandments/failing_to_honor_our_parents.htm
It should be noted that the attribution of this quote to Peter the
Hermit is as shaky as the attribution of the other quote to Socrates.
But both quotes help to make the point that adults throughout history
have been alarmed by the behavior of young people, and civilization
hasn't yet come to an end because of the rebelliousness of teenagers.