INTERVIEWS BY Merle and Ha Brubaker for Boyer archives
Interview with John Z. Martin at Messiah Village, Mechanicsburg, PA, Saturday afternoon, Feb.
7,2004.
John: For a long time, Merle, I’ve wanted to talk with you. This book (a scrapbook from the
Boyer archives, of newspaper clippings about Dr. Boyer during his years at Upland College, a
scrapbook compiled by Kay Boyer, which she located and loaned to me when we met several
weeks earlier at The Wedge restaurant with Glen Bucher and Bonnebaugh from Empire State
College. Kay and I agreed that I would loan the scrapbook to John Martin and then return it to
the archives. The scrapbook stimulated John’s memories and he wanted to talk with me. I
scheduled him as one of the first interviews, using a tiny portable recording device. Later
interviews done on a much higher quality machine borrowed from Terri Hopkins at the Boyer
Center.)
John (continuing) This book brought back all kinds of memories.
I'll tell you what I want to talk about. I have a feeling that sometimes is real strong and
sometimes is just a flicker, that I ought to leave a message for the next generation, about what I
did, and what the Lord did for me.
John: I am so glad this other has worked out. (Here John is referring either to the oral history
project or to our reconciliation with the denomination. Assuming the first, I tell him how the oral
histoiy project began. Instead of typing it from the tape, I’ll type here a summary of the
beginning of the oral history project.
In my Philosophy classes, we begin with Plato, working through his dailogues. Whenever we
work through Meno, I recall Dr. Boyer’s speech to the faculty in the fall orientation, 1961. Ernie
was Dean of the Faculty; I was beginning as Dean of Students and chaplain. In Ernie’s speech,
he listed things that should happen to students when they come to college, including, "Tliey
should learn that there is a difference between opinion and knowledge. They won’t always be
able to know the difference, but they need to be aware that there is a difference.”
In preparation for faculty orientation that year, we were to read Plato’s Meno, where Plato
analyzes the difference between opinion and knowledge. Through the character representing his
teacher, Socrates, Plato says, “it is not, I am sure, a mere guess to say that right opinion and
knowledge are different. There are few things that I should claim to know, but that at least is
among them” (98b).
Every time I reread Meno, I recall Ernie’s 1961 speech to the faculty. Ever since I realized that
the Boyer Center here at Messiah College is a valuable resource to my students, I have
scheduled a class trip to the Boyer Center for each class. Ernie’s speeches, in print and on video,
have helped me to realize that Ernie was a philosopher. On one of those visits, Bill Boyer,
Ernie’s brother, asked me to help enlarge the holdings of the Boyer Center archives representing
his years at Upland College.Conversations with the directors of the Boyer Center have led to this
Boyer Oral History Project—using interviews of people who knew Ernie during those years to
gain additional information for the archives of the Boyer Center,
John Martin agreed with me that Ernie was a philosopher. Ernie was a good bit of everything. He
was a planner, He WAS a philosopher and a number of other things. Ernie was ahead of his time.
Dr. H. G. Brubaker had hired Ernie and me to come to Upland College at the same time.
When I started to lay out the plans to get Upland College accredited, I realized I needed to gather
a team. When I observed Ernie’s abilities in thinking, planning, and in commun ication, I went to
Ernie and shared with him my hopes that he would become dean, suggesting the need for him to
have his PhD.
Ernie said, “I like your idea, but there is just no way. I’m a married man with a family, and
there’s no way.”
Later I talked with him again, suggesting that he teach half-time while pursuing his degree, that
we {Upland College] would pay him a full-time salary and his tuition at USC. Eventually we
agreed that when he achieved his PhD, he would become dean.
Ernie came to me one time and said, John, I must tell you something. When they prepared me for
my oral, my adviser asked me what I will do when I get my PhD. “I’ve agreed to go back to
Upland College and help them achieve accreditation.” He came back to me and said, ‘Look if
you’re going to do that, we can’t give you a PhD. Our PhD’s go to bigger jobs.’ I don’t know
what to do.
So I prayed about it a lot.
A plan came to me, and I called Emie to talk. If they won’t give you a PhD if you come to
Upland College, they will if you go to one of the state colleges, like Long Beach State, parttime
or fulltime.
In early summer, he called to say that he had secured a job at Long Beach State—all evening
courses, about a half a load.
About the middle of August that year, he came with some good news: “I am happy. They just
called me to say that the class didn’t develop and they don’t need me, so I’ll be back with you
full time. I’ll be the Dean.
I’ve only told that story to a very few people. It looks as though I did more than I did. The Lord
used meThere is no doubt that Emie was the key in helping get Upland College accredited.
I think Emie would have gotten his PhD some time. He was that kind of guy. At that point we
were the stepping stone.
Then when Emie said he would like to go to the University of California, I said, “That’s fine.
You’ve done us a wonderful period of service. You did it well. If you want to go to other things
now, that’s fine.
John: There is another story that goes with accreditation that I don’t think anybody has ever
heard—that is when we formed the national organization, the Council for the Advancement of
Small Colleges.
I still think that organizing helped to get many small college accredited.
We got the idea of trying to get the accrediting agencies to add at least one other feature , instead
of just looking at how many PhD’s, how many books in the library, to look at what the graduates
have contributed to the world, what they have done as missionaries.
So we sent a letter to all of the unaccredited colleges. We just sent out one letter to all the nanaccredited colleges.
Duane Harley was president, I was vice president.
Do you have any idea how many are coming.
Duane said, I asked for a room for 100. When we wnet to the room, there were 109 presidents
there.
We told them our goal was to help the colleges to get accredited, so their stature would be based
on what they had done.
We stayed there three days.
A lot of them stayed alll three days.
We hired A1 Hill, a graduate of Harvard.
We had the Compton brothers—one in science and the other in Humanities.
Wilson was in the sciences.
Wilson Compton was well known.
Wilson, Compton, A1 Hill, Duane Hurley and I made a whirlwind tour starting in New York.
And now Dave Carlson comes on the scene, because he was Director of Development at Upland.
He helped us get write-ups at all these meetings in at least a dozen locations across the country.
He set up the meetings with press, reporters, and photographers.
I can’t document it, but 90 of them became accredited, including Messiah.
Merle I think I’m a little too modest to say this.
However, I do think that what we did was a
national.. ,
Emie was a big help to me, not out front.
He had his PhD.
I did not have a PhD.
Merle: but you had sales.
I ahd a couple things like that happen.
Merle: Are they recorded anywhere.
John: NO.
A similar thing happened in Dave Carlson’s coming. Remember, I was building a team. I needed
someone with Dave Carlson’s writing ability. Our agreement was that he was coming for the
next year.
In the middle of the summer, I called him to work on his housing.
After chapel one day, I had a letter from Dave saying he was not coming.
I called him.
He said, “I had an offer from Messiah.” I said, ‘Let’s pray about it.’
The next time I called him, He said, ‘Forget it. I’m coming.’
I said, Thank the Lord. The Lord has answered our prayer. Those kind of things happened pretty
frequently.
Those kinds of things I could do as individual stories.
The mechanics of it. I still love to work. I’m a consultant here.
We really need the Lord’s help here at Messiah Village. Last year I was chair of the annual
budget drive. The stoc^k market dropped, and we had the war, but we still di $300,000.00.1
think that demonstrates the presence of the Lord.
We were effective in making it possible for Emie to become who he became.
When Emie promised to be dean, he said, John I’ll be dean. But don’t ever ask me to be
president. When he was chancellor at the State University of New York, I reminded him of that
statement.
Ernie was a wonderful guy! He helped me so much.