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Hosted a Free Online discussion
Exploring The Teaching and Learning Cycle
A key construct of The Learning Network
July 21, 22, and 23, 2008
with
Lenny Sánchez
Bloomington, Indiana
MaryAnn Whitfield
Hutto, Texas
Kevin Shrum
Aurora, Colorado
Geri Williams
White River Junction, Vermont
TRANSCRIPT
The postings listed below are not in the order in which they were received. For
your
convenience, we have relocated the responses to questions so that they appear
directly after the questions posed.
We hope you have enjoyed this discussion as much as we have and will join us
in our
next discussion.
Online discussion about Exploring The Teaching and Learning Cycle, A key construct of The Learning Network, Transcript © 2008 by Richard C.
Owen Publishers, Inc. All rights reserved.
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1
Richard Owen
Good evening folks,
Welcome to another scheduled conversation on TLN that focuses on current ideas about teaching and
learning. We are delighted to have with us for the next three days Geri Williams, MaryAnn Whitfield,
Lenny Sanchez, and Kevin Shrum.
All four of our guests have a long involvement with The Learning Network--as teachers who have had
support, as teacher leaders (coaches) who have supported other teachers, as administrators who have
been leaders in their building or district helping support change, and as coordinators responsible for
training teacher leaders and supporting schools.
We are here this week to discuss the Teaching and Learning Cycle, a construct central to the work of
teachers and teacher educators involved in The Learning Network. This conversation will investigate
the elements of the teaching and learning cycle and will introduce examples from work with young
children, work with secondary students, and work in professional development environments. If you
did not read the document at the website that describes the T/L cycle, I encourage you to do it now.
It is brief and barely scratches the surface, but it might prompt questions and thoughts you will want
to share with the guests.
Good teaching, as we know, is not about programs that tell the teacher what to do, step-by-step.
Good teaching is not about insuring that all learners are on the same page. Good teaching is not
about passing a high stakes test. Good teaching involves providing the best possible support to help
every learner become enthusiastic, confident, and successful. It requires professionals who can make
judgments based on meaningful evidence that helps them determine what they will teach and how
they will teach it. The teaching and learning cycle is a tool for the teacher, the school and district
administrator, and the teacher educator to help her or him make professional decisions.
My request for our guests: I would like to get into this discussion by hearing you talk about your
experiences with the T/L cycle--assessment, evaluation, planning, and teaching. Please talk to us
about the circumstances, the audience, the frequency, the outcome, and any other consideration that
comes to mind. You can talk about working with six year olds or 14 year olds or teachers or about
watching coaches use the cycle in their work. Give us some insight into why you use the T/L cycle and
how you use it. My hope is your comments will generate lots of questions and exchange with listserve
members and prompt a lively discussion that will take us several layers into the elements of the
teaching and learning cycle.
My thanks to Geri, MaryAnn, Lenny, and Kevin for agreeing to be with us. I know your schedules keep
you busy and that your first response might not occur until Monday. Regardless, we are eager to hear
your ideas, your thoughts, and your responses to subscriber comments and questions.
For all new subscribers: If you would like to reply to a listserve message, click reply. If you want to
send a new message, click compose and address your message to TLN@listserve.com. If you need to
unsubscribe, please follow the directions at the bottom of each listserve message or write to me offlist
at richardowen@rcowen.com.
I look forward to an engaging conversation.
Richard
2
Lenny Sanchez
Greetings All!
Thank you, Richard, for starting such a wonderful discussion on something that is so important for all
of us to always keep in the forefront of our minds – the Teaching Learning Cycle. I believe you asked
us to share about our experiences with the TLC. I thought that I’d first begin by sharing how I
became “comfortable” with the TLC in my classroom. While the TLC is a construct that can be applied
to multiple contexts, when I began to understand it most deeply was when I deliberately “tracked” my
assessing, evaluating, planning, and teaching with a small group of students in my classroom. Being
able to devote focused amounts of time on what just a small group of children were doing in my
classroom helped me to better understand (and appreciate) how assessments can guide my
instructional decisions. When I started teaching, I was familiar with the traditional relationship
between planning and teaching. I understood that I needed to plan before I taught; however, it
wasn’t until support from The Learning Network (and specifically help from Carolyn Matern who is a
part of this listserve) when I began to truly understand the role assessment and evaluation also have
in planning and teaching. As I learned about different ways to assess kids’ reading and writing and
how to evaluate those assessments, that is when I believe the TLC impacted my teaching in even
more ways. That is when I understood that a “simple” construct, such as the TLC, is not so easy after
all, but impacts classroom practice in powerful ways.
Lenny
3
Geri Williams
Good morning,
Thank you Richard for arranging this wonderful dialogue centering on the Teaching Learning Cycle.
This is a concept that is dear to my heart and I find myself using so automatically that it becomes a
part of everything I do as an educator. The educational literature is full of articles and books on
Differentiated Instruction. Many schools are trying to implement this concept. I work in several areas
of the country and I see the attempts but rarely see the implementation. For me, the Teaching
Learning Cycle is the missing piece.
It all starts with assessment. Whenever I walk into a school, no matter my role, I am immediately
taking an assessment sample. Are the hallways filled with work of students? Is it art work only or
does it represent the learning in all content areas? Do the teachers here understand the importance of
publishing work with no errors? What is the role of the principal? Is she "too busy" to show me around
the school? Where is the data for the school published? Can I see that this school is open to showing
the public how they are doing? As I enter the classrooms, I am also taking an assessment sample.
Does the classroom reflect the work of the children or is it filled with the latest Frank Schaffer from the
Teacher Store? What are the students doing? Are they reading and writing and making mathematical
discoveries. Are they sitting still in their seats and listening to an adult? Are they engaged? Then I
talk to a student. Tell me what you are working on here. How did you happen to choose this book to
read? What are you writing? Who decided what you would write?
In a few minutes time, I have gathered assessment samples. Then I start to evaluate "on the run."
What do I see as the strengths of this child, this school, this classroom, this district? Where do I see
some next steps for learning or talking or sharing? Then so what, what will I do about it? How will I
plan for things to change? How do I use the data (the assessment sample) to take learners to their
next level of learning?
Assessment is at the heart of everything we do in schools and it is often the neglected piece. How do
you see this working for you? What are the challenges you face?
We look forward to a provocative three days!
Geri
4
MaryAnn Whitfield
Thank you, Richard, for organizing this discussion about the Teaching and Learning Cycle. I wanted to
make a quick comment before going to work this morning. Right now one of the challenges teachers
are dealing with is high stakes testing. I think as work with the data (assessment) from the tests we
can get trapped in a mind set of summative assessment (assessment of learning).
The Teaching and Learning Cycle supports a teacher in understanding and organizing his or her
thinking around the process of using assessment when planning for teaching. To do this I need to look
at assessment that I've gathered or need to gather related to the learning targets that I'll be
teaching. The assessment I use for planning is formative assessment (assessment for learning). I
want current information about what the students already know and can do and what they are
attempting.
For example, if summarizing is my learning target, I could ask students to summarize a paragraph or
a short piece of text. I might ask them to write their summaries. I might ask them to summarize
orally sharing with a partner, and I'll listen in as they share their summaries. From the information I
gather, I'll decide what I need to do with my class, with small groups, and with individuals. I'll know
what kind of support is needed, such as demonstrations, guided practice, and independent practice.
As I teach, I'll continue to gather assessment that will help know how to adjust my support based on
student need, how to group students, and how to select resources.
Before I was introduced to the Teaching and Learning Cycle, I would usually plan with little information
about my learners and teach as though they all had the same needs. At that time assessing had more
to do with testing and grading. Seeing the arrow on the TL/C that points from assessment/evaluation
to planning has helped understand that knowing the needs of my students is a key part of the
planning process.
It's off to work now. I look forward to the continued discussion for the next three days!
MaryAnn Whitfield
Instructional Coordinator
Hutto Independent School District
5
Toni
Some school districts seem to require summative assessments (assessment of learning) to gather data
on students in their schools and across the district. Without knowing specifically what these
assessments look like, would you say that it might be possible to use these in a formative way - as in
assessing for learning - the TLC?
Toni
6
Lenny
Hi Toni,
One of the differences that I think about between the use of formative assessments and summative
assessments is that summative assessments take place 'after' the learning and formative assessments
take place 'during' the learning. In this way then, formative assessments impact right away what (and
how) I'm teaching and what (and how) my students are learning. Because of this difference, I'm not
sure that district summative assessments can serve the same purpose as what my classroom
formative assessments can. The summative assessments can inform my instruction, but they will
most likely impact my teaching in a much different way. For example, the district where I first taught
gave district reading tests every quarter. The information on those assessments did not exactly reflect
what I was doing in the classroom and I only received the results of those assessments 4 times
a year. Because of those factors, I could not use them to guide my instruction in the same ways as
my daily Running Records, small group reading observations, and one-on-one reading conferences.
While the district assessments might have been somewhat helpful to gather comparative data at
specific points along the year, they played a much different role on the TLC than did my formative
measures.
Lenny
7
Geri
I work with several schools that are using formative assessments that can become summative
assessments. The first purpose is formative. What does this student understand and what does he
need to learn next? Formative assessments such as student writing pieces can be used as summative
assessments as well, with a focus. How many students are using details in their writing? How does the
voice come through in these samples of student work? What do students understand about writing to
a prompt? Running records are another way of formative assessments that can be used as summative
assessments, as well. What does this whole class look like at this point in time as readers? What kind
of errors are students making? At what levels are students reading? This kind of information can be
the beginning of a constructive dialogue.
Geri
8
Geri
I remember Peter Johnston's words many years ago, here in a conference in Vermont. Assessment is
all about purpose. What does the superintendent need for information? What does the principal need?
What does the teacher need? What does the child need? What does the parent need? What does the
community need? What does the state need?
All of these purposes are legitimate. How can we efficiently gather useful information that serves
different needs and purposes? I think the important thing for me to remember is that the assessment
is FOR learning, no matter who the audience is. So, if I gather data, what do I do with it? That is
where the Teaching Learning Cycle comes in. We need to take whatever assessment sample we have
and evaluate it and then plan for new learning to occur, no matter who the audience is.
Geri
9
Dana
Hi MaryAnn,
How do you assess before planning with a curriculum like C-scope? Last year, I would introduce the
lesson and then informally assess and direct my teaching that way. I am not sure with the pace of Cscope how that would look. Would you do this for every lesson? If so, with lesson plans being turned
in a week ahead, there is a lot of rewriting of plans. I do use the TLC but I am not sure if I am really
assessing first and then planning, or planning, teaching, assessing and re-teaching, or moving on
quickly if students have gotten material.
For now, what I am trying to formulate is how this looks when doing lesson plans.
Dana Dillon :)
10
Deb
I know I'm not MaryAnn.... thinking aloud (my favorite pastime!) in this response...
For me I can't do lesson plans per se until I have figured out where each child is with regards to the
content I think I'm supposed to teach. If they already know the stuff then what good does it do to
teach it again (review ok but re-teach is too redundant) and if they don't know it then starting at a
point other than where they are is just too frustrating for them and you. It begins to label them as
not up to the task of learning when they are.
I can introduce a topic and begin to get them to show me what they know. Then I begin to structure
lesson plans. Is this a hard and fast rule? Pretty much but it depends on the students I am
teaching.
The format for the lesson plans is found in Reading Strategies: Focus on Comprehension 2/e
(Goodman, Watson, & Burke) and a Richard Owen publication. These lesson plans do not look like
traditional plans.
Again, food for thought or thinking aloud or ....
Deb
11
MaryAnn
Hi Dana,
You have great questions about something that challenges all of us as we use our curriculum
documents. Here are some thoughts about how the Teaching and Learning Cycle fits within the use of
curriculum.
An important aspect of assessing for learning (formative assessment) is to know what students are
expected to learn. Our state and district curriculum provides that information. Since we work in the
same district, I know that our district's curriculum also lays out a scope and sequence of instruction for
the year. So I'd start by looking at the current curriculum unit to see what concepts and key
understandings the students are expected to learn (this would be the beginning of my medium term
planning).
I'd be working with my team at this point to make sure we are clear about the learning targets for our
students. Sometimes we discover that we need to seek help from other teachers, teacher leaders,
and/or our administrator to clarify the learning expectation or to better understand the concepts in the
unit. As teachers we're assessing our knowledge and skills and seeking support where we need to
learn as part of our own teaching and learning cycle.
Then I'd be thinking about what assessment I may already have that would give me information about
what students already know. Once again this is a great time to work with my team to have support in
this part of my planning. The information about what my students already know will help me
communicate with my students to help them activate their prior knowledge and build on their
strengths. Knowing what they already know will also help me make links from the known to what will
be new to them.
Now I'm ready to consider what I need to find out about my students knowledge and skills that I don't
already know. The good news is, Dana, the curriculum you are using begins with lessons that are built
on the 5 E Model which begins with Engage and Explore experiences. These experiences are a great
time for the teacher to observe, listen, and gather information about what students already know and
what they don't. From that you'll be able to determine which students will need more support, how
you'd group students, and which students will be able to work independently or may need enrichment
opportunities.
As to lesson plans, what I start the week with are my short-term plans and they are the bare bones of
what I expect to do. They will serve as a guide and reference during the week. I want a lesson plan
format that will let me add what is needed, draw arrows to reorganize and mark through if I find I
don't need something. I wouldn't be rewriting them, but they could be pretty messy by the end of the
week.
I have read several books by Shirley Clarke that have really helped me learn about the relationship of
planning and formative assessment. You can order her books from Richard Owen Publishers.
How do others on the listserve work with their district's curriculum using their understandings of the
Teaching and Learning Cycle?
MaryAnn Whitfield
Hutto Independent School District
Instructional Coordinator
12
Kathy
Hi MaryAnn,
In our District we are just getting to the point where teachers are ready to really look at and develop
their understandings of formative assessment and TLC. Over the past five years we have developed
curriculum maps and assessments called "Guaranteed Learning Opportunities" or GLOs for short. We
are continuing to work with these maps and assessments and with our new outlook and with the TLC
clearly in our vision have discovered that all of our assessments are summative. Many of them can
easily be used to inform our instruction by simply changing when they are administered or increasing
the frequency of when they are administered--really taking a look at the purpose of these
assessments. For example, first grade teachers initially decided to use a RR at the end of grade one
to see if children were at an appropriate level for the end of grade 1 (RR are taken much more
frequently but were not a formal part of the Map). Just by rethinking and rearticulating the purpose
for doing the RR teachers have increased the expectations across the district for giving running
records, have clearly stated the purpose and how the info gathered will be used to inform instruction,
and by making the expectation a part of the formal document used by the district there has been a
shift from summative to formative without too much resistance. The construct of TLC gave teachers
the model to follow and has also given the administration something to hold on to as they wrap their
brains around the concept of formative vs summative assessments. So far so good.
Kathy
13
MaryAnn
Wow, Kathy, you've given us something really important to think about: Many assessments can be
changed from summative to formative if we change when they are administered or increase their
frequency. I also appreciate the point you made about really looking at the purpose of the
assessment. By truly understanding what the assessment can tell us about the child's strengths and
approximations we will have much richer information to use for planning our instruction and
monitoring the progress of our students.
I'd like to add that if we look at the summative assessments that are in our curriculum they can give a
clearer picture of what is expected of our students at the end of our instruction. From there we can
work backward and consider how and what we'll be assessing and evaluating along the way to make
sure are students are learning.
Thanks Kathy for deepening our discussion about curriculum and the TLC with the examples you've
given!
MaryAnn
14
Kevin Shrum
Good morning everyone. Thank you Richard for putting this discussion together. I am looking forward
to the comments, questions, and discussion over the next couple of days. Like MaryAnn, I wanted to
make a quick comment before running off to a workshop.
For me, the Teaching and Learning Cycle is all about assessment FOR learning. Using evaluated
assessment data to plan intentionally with each student in mind and then teach accordingly. When I
first started teaching my view of assessment was more linked to assessment OF learning. The
Teaching and Learning Cycle has helped me focus on quality assessment in order to really understand
what my learners (adults and students) are able to do, attempting to do, and what they need next.
For the last three years I have been a district instructional coach working with administrators and
building instructional coaches. My assignment this year is taking me back to the classroom - 6th
grade literacy. I am excited to be with students on a daily basis. I am also somewhat nervous about
the change - some times I am just an anxious guy. Going into the new school year I know my
understandings around the Teaching and Learning Cycle will help ease the transition.
OK, I will return later this afternoon. I look forward to where the discussion take us all. Have an
excellent day.
Kevin Shrum
15
Yvonne
One of the things I point out to students is what I notice they do well. Another biggie is modeling the
thought process. I strategically offer something I've noticed or ask a question aloud. Modeling is a
powerful tool. Lots of experts discuss the power of modeling and thinking aloud.
Yvonne
16
Mark
Yvonne,
I have been working with a physics teacher who has done a lot of modeling of "thinking" and
"questioning" who has now got his students to an independent level. I think this process is missing in
many classrooms that I observe. We (teachers) do the thinking for our students rather than the
opposite.
Mark
17
Priscilla
I am so glad to see this topic come up with the group. Too often assessment is something that is
done TO students as part of reporting and/or accountability measures. I'm not going to get into a
discussion about the validity of said measures being used currently in the name of accountability - I
prefer the discussion focus on assessment FOR learning that involves students. Richard Stiggins has
written quite a bit about this topic and talks about how domains of learning such as reasoning skills or
dispositions about learning cannot be adequately assessed using constructed response types of
measures such as multiple choice or true-false.
As Beverly Falk commented in her article, “Testing the Way Children Learn,” assessment should
always be in the service of learning. Her book, The Heart of the Matter, expands on this idea. Our
students need to be involved in the assessment process so that they take ownership of learning,
understand where they need to go, as well as learn how to get there. If the only assessment they
know is done to them, how will they ever develop the inner control to become independent, life-long
learners?
Priscilla Shannon Gutierrez
Outreach Specialist
Center for Information, Training and Professional Development
New Mexico School for the Deaf
17a
Geri
I agree. If we aren't assessing for learning, why are we assessing? I have worked with students and
teachers helping them to look at constructed response in a different way. Constructed response
questions are simply open-ended questions and students all over this country are having difficulty
doing this. That is the evaluation of the sample. I do agree that the state test questions are many
times not valid assessments of our student's learning. I also have to wonder why our students are not
able to do this kind of writing. What can they do well? What is it that they don't understand? What do I
need to do as a teacher to scaffold the learning so they can be successful? This is the Teaching
Learning Cycle in action.
Geri
17b
Yvonne
How about having the student ask the questions about his/her learning?
Yvonne
17c
Geri
I do agree that students need to ask questions, all day long! Our modeling helps them to learn how to
ask the questions and what to look for. How often do we ask students to find their "best piece of
writing" and then support them to think through why they think so? I remember asking this question
of six year olds and at first the response would be, "It's about cats and I like cats." Later, this same
child could talk about the effective lead or the use of dialogue in the writing. It is valuing the
questions, encouraging the questions and modeling other questions and responses that will really
produce "critical thinking" in our schools.
Geri
18
Lenny
Priscilla,
You said,
Our students need to be involved in the assessment process so that they take ownership of learning,
understand where they need to go, as well as learn how to get there. If the only assessment they
know is done to them, how will they ever develop the inner control to become independent, life-long
learners?
Thank you for raising such a great reminder. It is too easy to think about our role as the teacher
when looking at the TLC, but thinking about the students’ role during each of the “stages” of the TLC is
so important as well. For example, as you mentioned, not only are we as the teachers monitoring the
students’ learning, but that is something we should be supporting them to do as well. The students’
own perspectives hold great implications for the ways that we assess, evaluate, plan, and teach. I can
think of too many times when I used to let the data (student work, monitoring notes, etc.) "speak for
itself" without consulting the children to gather their interpretations as well.
Lenny
19
Lisa
Lenny said,
…not only are we as the teachers monitoring the students' learning, but that is something we should
be supporting them to do as well. The students' own perspectives hold great implications for the ways
that we assess, evaluate, plan, and teach. I can think of too many times when I used to let the data
(student work, monitoring notes, etc.) "speak for itself" without consulting the children to gather their
interpretations as well.
Lenny's words above deserve a great deal of attention. As we try to support students with making the
TL cycle their own, we should constantly engage them in conversation. My own high school age
children and my elementary students have voiced negative feelings about portfolios and reflection
when it was "given" to them as another task to complete and did not feel "helpful" to them. If we don't
address these feelings and concerns then no matter how "good" the student reflections look, they
carry little meaning for the learners.
Lisa
20
MaryAnn
Thank you Priscilla and Lenny for pursuing this area of assessment and evaluation. If our goal is to
develop independent, life-long learners, it seems this is a key area for educators to understand.
Would someone be willing to share how you develop this process with your students or how as
a coach/teacher leader you develop the process with teachers or teacher teams?
MaryAnn
21
Kevin
Wow! There are some great topics of discussion being brought up out there.
I have worked with a couple of high school teachers (being developed as building instructional
coaches) who have seen the Teaching and Learning Cycle come alive in their work. I think a lot of us
here have seen that happen. What's incredibly cool is seeing how those teachers have used the
Teaching and Learning Cycle with their students. They have "tweaked" the construct so that it is a
"Learning Cycle" the students use to help them think about what and how they are learning in class.
Assessment is there, evaluation is there, planning is there, and learning is there. Students use the
"Learning Cycle" in a reflective way to think about their own learning. The one area the teachers
found that students struggle with is planning. So, the Teaching and Learning Cycle is a construct that
can support any learner. Have others seen students using the cycle?
Kevin
22
Geri
Can you share with us more specifically how you tweaked the TLC for students--The Learning Cycle?
What does it look like? How do students use it? Can you give us a concrete example from a classroom
or school? This is great thinking.
Geri
23
Kevin
You bet.
Here is how the high school math teacher reworked the Teaching and Learning Cycle so students could
use it as a tool for reflection. She started with the Teaching and Learning Cycle with the students and
had their help in putting it in student friendly language.
The Learning Cycle
Assessment
Collecting information about my progress (homework, quizzes, previous tests, etc)
Determining the concepts that have been "covered" during learning
Evaluation
What types of questions can I do all of the time by myself?
What types of questions do I know the process for but get stuck on some steps?
What types of questions do I not even know where to start?
Planning
Determine the best way to address my needs found during evaluation
Talk to my teacher
Set up study group
Look over old questions
Flash cards
Learning
Whole group, small group and individual settings
Active engagement by asking questions and making connections
Her students were heavily involved in portfolio work - collecting pieces of work, analyzing work to find
evidence of mastery, knowing what skills are required to meet standards, etc. Students wrote goals
based on their work and evaluation of their assessments. Like I said in an earlier post, students fell
apart (not completely) with the planning stage. They were not sure what it took to improve, change
their process, get the practice, etc. They needed much more direct instruction and modeling with
this. The teacher has a goal for the coming year of working on the planning piece with students.
Hopefully this helps illustrate how students can use the Teaching and Learning Cycle.
Kevin
24
Elisa
This reads very much like a math assessment that I tried using this year developed by Tanya
Braybrook. You can Google her to get to her website. Basically the kids do the assessment and after
it is marked and the questions and responses are reviewed, the kids graph their scores. Since there
are always the same number of questions on the assessment and each question is always on the same
math topic in that grade's program of studies, the kids can see over time how they are doing in a
particular math topic and I can see how well I am teaching that same concept. Then, the kids use this
information to plan for their learning (similar to what is posted above under "Planning") and I can plan
for my teaching.
I hope this makes sense.
Elisa
Elisa Waingort
Grade 2 Spanish Bilingual
Dalhousie Elementary
Calgary, Canada
25
Geri
Hi Elisa,
Thanks for sharing your experience. When you say you use it for your planning, can you give us a little
snapshot of what that looks like? Thanks.
Geri
26
Elisa
If I see that there are students who are having trouble with patterns then I would set up an
invitational group made up of those children and then I would also invite anyone else who wants to
work further on patterns to join us. Does that answer your question?
Elisa
Elisa Waingort
Grade 2 Spanish Bilingual
Dalhousie Elementary
Calgary, Canada
28
Dana
I am trying to think about how this would look in young children. In writing they could select a piece
from their portfolio and analyze what areas in the writing process they find challenging. I find in
revision stage young writers have a hard time wanting to add or take away. Maybe this could be a
focus for them.
Assessment: Collecting several pieces of writing from their portfolios
Checking the steps of the writing process and what target skills have
been taught
Evaluation: What steps do I feel confident in doing by myself all the time?: selecting a
topic, pre-writing, revision(adding a color word, a vivid verb)
What target skills do I hit?: editing (underlining words I did not know
and going back to find the correct spelling etc.)
What am I having challenges the most with?
Planning:
How can I make sure to hit the target skills I have been missing (room
resources, partner resource, sign up for teacher conference).
Just throwing some thoughts out there. I think Kevin has illustrated a wonderful outline that could be
used to plug in any subject area. Although with math would you have the time to do this?
Dana
29
Lori
One of our district collection pieces at several grade levels is a reflection written on a self-selected
piece of writing. Lots of the teachers introduce students to this process with HELP, which I gave to
them only after unabashedly swiping it from someone else.
H—What was hard about this piece?
E—What was easy about this piece?
L—What did I learn about writing?
P—What am I proud of?
So you might hope to get responses like this...
I had a hard time with the ending. I didn’t like the one I wrote at first and I couldn’t think of a way to
end it. My friend Max read it and he gave me the idea for...
It was easy for me use lots of different kinds of sentences. I like the way I used short sentences after
really long sentences I got that idea from...
I learned that sometimes a friend can give you ideas for your story and that it is okay.
I am proud that my mom liked it. She even laughed at the funny spots. She says it is my best story
ever.
We are finding that this has to be modeled, so now I begin to see lists to help kids with the reflection
pieces.
Things that might be hard
Getting ideas
Trying out a new craft
Making paragraphs
Deciding on a title
Revising an ending
And so on... With more kid voice, I am just trying to give examples
Lori
30
Dana
Love it.....I will definitely try these questions out with my students!
Dana
31
Geri
Thanks so much, Lori, for sharing the specifics with us. These teaching episodes help us all to push our
thinking to the next level. These are great assessment samples. They give us a glimpse not only into
the knowledge of writing itself but also into the writer's knowledge of process. I do agree that we have
to model how to talk about the writing and support student's to know how to write and talk about their
writing. "Show not Tell," Murray's words are embroidered into my brain. It works every time.
Let's take one example and see if we can use TLC to take this child to new learning.
"I had a hard time with the ending. I didn't like the one I wrote first and I couldn't think of a way to
end it. My friend Max read it and he gave me the idea for ...
What does this assessment sample tell me?
Geri
32
Kevin
Hi Dana,
As teachers, we use the Teaching and Learning Cycle across content areas and across grade levels in
our own practice. The example of students using the Teaching and Learning Cycle I gave was specific
to one content and one grade level. It seems that there could be a generic student learning cycle that
would fit with any content and any grade level using student friendly language. That way the student
can transfer the understandings gained from the learning cycle from class to class, year to year. I
haven't taken the time yet to look at this, but it sure seems like it could be done. What a powerful
approach for a staff to take to build reflective thinkers.
Kevin
33
MaryAnn
Dana, I agree that Kevin's outline provides a supportive structure when thinking through and planning
what it would look like to intentionally involve our students in TLC. It's obvious that you are keeping
your students at the front and center of the learning, which seems to be a theme that is running
through the conversations on the listserve.
I really appreciate the work you've done to figure out how you'd plan for this so that when you are
working with your students you can help them truly understand their role and how this will help them
learn.
I hope you'll keep plugging in different scenarios. What do you think about doing this with your
team? It seems like the collaborative discussion would be a support to everyone and consequently all
the students at the grade level would benefit!
Thank you for sharing your hard work with all of us! I'll be eager to hear how it works with your
students. I hope you will share what you are working on with the teacher leaders at your school. I
know they'll want to be learning alongside you.
MaryAnn
34
Deb
I'm thinking aloud here while I'm giggling at this line you say "...young writers have a hard time
wanting to add or take away." This is so true and yet ... we keep asking them to change a story they
think is perfect. I would be livid if asked to do that. Besides isn't it really the author who owns the
writing?
Perhaps we need to take a different stance with them. I'm not sure right now what that would look
like exactly because the kids would dictate that. But I keep getting a nudging that in focusing on the
'skills' they are to learn we are silencing their voices. I think they will get the skills just by reading
and writing a lot - a ton of reading and writing. But telling them to add more details to the story they
think is perfect doesn't seem to be right.
I've not even asked the normal questions here...what age group are you talking about when you say
young children? preschool? K-2? All of this goes with everything else. But if we are focusing on the
standards and skills then aren't we moving away from the students as the center piece in the teaching
and learning relationship?
Deb
35
Dana
Being a new teacher, my experience is in second grade. I don't ask, I suggest that maybe here we
could add a color word to make our reader see more vividly what you as an author are seeing. I
do believe they need to read and write a lot but if they are not guided and asked to evaluate their
work to improve it then when will this occur? I see with my 12 year old daughter, who is a wonderful
writer, but does not know how to edit her work so there are no repetitive sentences, etc. I began to
wonder how much better her writing could be if the teacher assessed, planned, and evaluated. I see
with her it has become a habit, more than being upset, not to want to change anything. I believe all
writers have editors. In the end, I do believe that they need to write without constraints. I did find
this a struggle last year. This year I will be introducing quick writes in the morning so they can
generate ideas without considering the writing process. I know my students last year really enjoyed
writing and most were up to the challenge to work on their writing pieces. Most of my lessons were
from a book called Teaching the Youngest Writers A practical Guide by Marcia S. Freeman. A great
book celebrating young writers.
Dana
36
Geri
It's like a giant puzzle now, isnt' it? That is why the construct of the Teaching Learning Cycle is so
critical in our classrooms, no matter the age. The learner becomes the center through our assessment
and evaluation. As teachers one of the many things in our toolboxes are the standards, the knowledge
of the reading and writing process, and the ability to use the data to plan for new learning for our
children. We should be able to say at the end of the day, John learned this today. This is the purpose
of schooling: to continue to learn more and more. If I know what John knows as a writer, then as his
teacher I also need to know what he needs to know next to become an even better writer. I need to
plan intentionally for his learning. A good example comes to mind from my own neighborhood. A little
eight year old lives next door. She went into kindergarten reading Junie B Jones. She came home
every day with her coloring worksheets and we continued to read at home. I would do a running
record every now and again and sometimes just listen to her read. Somehow, she had figured out the
graphophonic system and that reading was supposed to make sense but she didn't know she was
supposed to read with fluency, pace, and expression. So we worked on that for a bit. Then she started
to read much more fluently and at a very quick pace. So we had to learn to go back and reread and
make sure it made sense. Carrie was a reader and was reading everyday at home, lugging bags of
books home from the library and being read to four or five times a day. At school, she was shuffled
around with another small group, the old Joplin plan from one first grade classroom to another. It was
clear to me that they didn't know what to do with this child to continue to scaffold her learning as a
reader. She was just supposed to read. Well, she did that and she also needed explicit instruction.
They did one reading assessment at the beginning of the year and that was it. This is in 2008! She will
score exceptionally well on the state test and she still has much to learn as a reader.
Geri
37
MaryAnn
I think that one of the things that really helps our students develop as writers is to understand early
on in their development that writing can be shared with others/audience and that as writer I want my
writing to be clear to my audience. To do that I get my ideas down on paper, and as I do I reread (to
myself and to others) to see if my ideas are clear. I may discover that I need and want to add a bit
more to make my writing more clear.
As the teacher, I need to show myself as a writer for my students. I write in front of them
everyday so they can see how I reread my writing and ask others to listen. I want my students to
know that as a writer I want to know if they have questions. From the questions they ask I can decide
if I need to add a little more. When I'm modeling I want to show my enthusiasm for making revisions.
I want children to see that a writer doesn't expect their writing to be perfect as s/he is getting the
ideas down.
My students were eager after being part of these demonstrations to go back into their writing to add a
bit more. I think writers do need to own their writing so I have to help my students develop an
attitude about writing that makes them want to work on more than just getting their ideas down.
I find that the standards help me know what students are expected to be learning. When I know that,
I can gather information and evaluate that information to determine what they already know and what
support they need in order to learn.
Sorry this got a little long-winded. Even though I've been rereading and revising, I'm not really sure
I've been clear so does anyone have questions?
MaryAnn
38
Lori
I think there is often a way to do this without making writers livid. Often if they can talk the story
first, then read the story, you have a way in. “Mary, when you were telling me the story you made it
come alive for me when you told me how silly your little sister looked with all that frosting on her face.
Let me see, I wrote it down...oh, yes, you said she looked just like a clown! But in the story, all you
said was she had frosting on her face. I am wondering if other readers might enjoy it more if you
added that bit about the clown. Hmm, it might sound like this...She had frosting on her face and she
looked just like a clown. If you would like, I can show you a writer’s trick for adding that bit without
lots of erasing.” I honestly think part of the problem for young writers is the very act—the physical
act—of writing is intense and draining. If our ideas of revision suggest erasing or rewriting in total,
that can play a role in why kids resist.
Lori
39
Deb
Yes, this is one way and thanks for reminding me of it. There is also the way of looking outside their
writing to literature. How did this author storytell his/her story? What language did he/she use...do
we do the same thing?
Absolutely right that writing is draining both emotionally and physically for writers (any age) and
especially so with young writers. So why not have them use the computer, too.
Anyway, thanks for reminding me of how to do this and not impinge on the writer’s authority.
Deb
40
Kathy
Lori,
I believe those are exactly the kinds of conversations we have to have with kids about their writing.
You demonstrated using the child's own voice and ideas, and "reminded" her of what she had said
initially. Being very specific and concrete illustrates for the writer just what you mean by revision. She
gets to keep ownership and you get to model for her what the audience may be thinking when reading
her piece. Also as previously mentioned we are teaching the writer not the piece, so if Mary chooses
not to add to this story she will have your voice in her head when she writes her next story. What an
excellent use of your monitoring notes too. Thanks.
Kathy
41
Nancy
Assessment: Collecting several pieces of writing from their portfolios
Checking the steps of the writing process and what target skills
have been taught
Evaluation: What steps do I feel confident in doing by myself all the time?:
selecting a topic, pre-writing, revision (adding a color word, a vivid verb)
What target skills do I hit?: editing (underlining words I did not know
and going back to find the correct spelling etc.)
What am I having challenges the most with?
So then, is the assessment just the gathering of a collection of items from the student to evaluate
with? And evaluation is the analysis of the assessment?
Nancy
42
MaryAnn
You're bringing up a great discussion point, Nancy. This morning Richard talked about consistent
language and questions provide an opportunity to share how we are defining the terms of the teaching
and learning cycle.
I'll share my definitions, which I developed through collaborative discussion with other teachers at my
school after we had attended the Literacy Learning in the Classroom Institute as a group. They are
very much in line with what you've articulated, but I'll elaborate a little more on evaluation.
Assessment--information about the learner (gathered by teacher and learner)
Evaluation--analyzing the information to determine the learner’s strengths and what the learner is
attempting/approximating. From that information a focused next step can be determined that builds
on the learner's strengths and moves the attempt to a strength. (In the evaluation, I'm looking for
the zone of proximal development. The attempts/approximations are showing me and the learner
what is close to being learned)
I'll go a little farther...
Planning--Using what is known about the learner (evaluated assessment of learning
targets) to determine the support that will be needed for learning to occur. (Focused objective,
grouping, resources, and instructional approaches)
Teaching/Learning--Providing the support needed for learning to occur. (Some examples of support-demonstration/modeling through think alouds, explanations, guiding as the learner practices,
independent practice.)
I've heard Peter Duncan talk about the gang language of education. There is a great deal
of educational jargon. When teachers talk together they can be using the same terms, but they may
not define the terms in the same way. From my experience it is really helpful for teachers who work
together to come to agreement on how they will define some common terms. It really helps the staff
stay together.
Thank you Nancy for sharing your questions and thoughts.
MaryAnn
43
Kevin
MaryAnn, I definitely agree with the definitions and understandings you have posted with regards to
assessment, evaluation, planning, and teaching. It is important to have consistent language and even
more important to work toward consistent understandings.
So as a staff at an elementary, middle, or high school, if we have common language and common
understandings, how are we implementing those understandings to support all students? It is done in
our individual classrooms. It is done during team meetings. It is done in small groups (Critical
Friends Groups, leadership teams, departments, Professional Learning Communities, etc). It is done
at staff learning meetings. I truly believe the next level is supporting students in creating a common
language and common understandings around how they learn. Believing that, I wonder how
transparent we are as teachers with our learners about how teaching and learning
connect/intersect/overlap? Do we spend time supporting students in the understanding of the
Teaching and Learning Cycle?
Kevin
44-45
Kathy
Each time keeping the student informed as to the goals of the learning is mentioned and coming up
with a common language to use with students in our classrooms, I am brought back to the books by
Shirley Clarke that MaryAnn mentioned in a previous post (available in the United States from Richard
C. Owen Publishers, Inc.). I used them in a class on Formative Assessment for teachers and they
really identified with the language and began using it with their students-closing the gap, learning
intentions, etc. Clarke also speaks to being very specific with children as to their growth and new
learning so they can easily see where they are and need to go next. I found her books a tremendous
help when thinking about formative assessment with teachers and my students.
Kathy
46
Mark
MaryAnn,
In today’s discussions a number of things have been thrown around:
1. The teaching learning cycle
2. Formative Assessment
3. Summative Assessment
All of these things must be present to get teachers to have students gain independence in their own
learning process. It is central that students have "checks along the way" or formative assessment
strands to assess what they know/Understand/and can do. The Teaching Learning Cycle allows for
teachers to assess, evaluate, plan, and teach. The summative assessment helps to plan your units
and make adjustments when needed to improve lessons and outcomes/objectives. The summative
assessment is the roadmap, the formative assessment is the stops along the way on the road to your
destination.
Don't forget...begin with the end in mind (Steven Covey)
Mark
47
Kathy
I am so excited to be a part or this discussion on the Teaching Learning Cycle. TLC was my biggest
"aha moment" at my first summer institute and continues to drive my teaching and learning in all
areas. Watching TLN model this construct at summer institutes, conferences, and especially watching
and working with Geri during my first year of coaching has allowed me to continue to develop my
understandings of the TLC and share my understandings with the students I work with of all ages.
Kathy
48
Geri
Good to hear your voice on the listserve, Kathy.
We worked this year using the Teaching Learning Cycle at the district level, as well. This might be a
good topic to explore further.
Geri
49
Lenny
Kathy - I think this is a great point! Perhaps you would be willing to share a bit more about how
you use the TLC for your own understandings. How can the TLC support educators as they grow in
their own practice and theory? Anybody want to jump in and share your thoughts?
Lenny
50
Lenny
Geri As I'm thinking about the questions you raised in your initial response, “Assessment is at the heart of
everything we do in schools and is often the neglected piece. How do you see this working for you?
What are the challenges you face?” I feel like one thing that is important for us to keep in mind is to
be strategic. Districts and schools jump to create and use assessments. Textbooks and programs are
filled with assessments for teachers to do in their classrooms. New assessments are being created all
the time. There is so much pressure to assess, assess, and assess.
I remember something you said at a meeting a few years back, "If you assess and don't evaluate it,
then what good is the assessment? It's wasted time and energy." With so many pressures to give so
many assessments, I think it comes on the role of the teacher to determine which assessments are
going to be of most value to them and their students and determine which assessments are going to
affect the learning most deeply. This to me is one of the greatest challenges. We have to be strategic
about our decisions so that we don't spend so much of our instructional time assessing that we don't
ever get around to teaching. Anyone else see other challenges that persist in the notion of
"assessment"?
Lenny
50a
Geri
So true. I have heard teachers say that they spend so much time "assessing" that they don't have
time to teach. One of the most valuable ways we assess in our profession is the art of observation,
"kid watching," Yetta showed us so many years ago. It is something that is valued in other professions
and is written down. Right now in our educational world, assessment is taken to mean some kind of
quiz, test, reading inventory, writing to a prompt or something test-like. Teachers are excellent
observers of behaviors. It's the evaluating and writing it down that takes the time, but is so valuable
as we use what we see and hear to plan for instruction.
Geri
51
Tammy
Loved this Lenny. I have said we are assessment rich and analysis poor. I think of all the running
records taken by teachers because they were "told" they had to... and then no miscue analysis ever
done. In an earlier conversation about DIBELS I have been thinking about the difference between
assessments for sorting (that tell you what a child "is") and assessments that tell you what he or she
can do, what strategies they employ and what they need.... tomorrow morning. All the writing done
by children never examined to determine what they understand about the writing process, how they
are growing in writing fluency, their rich (or weak) connection to the topic ... often the only feedback
is related to the misspelled word or some other surface convention.
Tammy
52
Rana
I totally agree with you Tammy. I am a student at Wayne State University and I am currently taking a
class with Dr. Creech. However, in the spring semester I took a class with another teacher and we
had to do many papers some were 15- 20 pages long and we had to use APA Style. I went to my
teacher's office one time and she was correcting a paper for a student in my class. She asked me to
wait 5 minutes and I watched her correcting the 15 page paper. She actually didn't read any of the
pages. She was only looking for APA citation and didn't care much about the content. I was extremely
shocked. I felt that all my hard work in typing my papers was worthless and that what she cared
mostly about is the paper organization and citation.
I believe that the challenge for all teachers is to develop an assessment system that effectively and
fairly determines what students know and are able to do. The feedback they get must enhance the
teaching and learning processes to stimulate further learning. Teachers should use classroom
assessment to guide instruction and enhance student learning.
Rana
53
Geri
Rana said "Teachers should use classroom assessments to guide and enhance learning."
What a statement. That is the essence of good instruction, in my mind. Isn't that what good teaching
is all about? As educators, at every level, we need to understand and use TLC as a construct. What a
sad story that in 2008, you had this experience in a college setting. Why in the world would APA
standards be more important than what you have to say? Your post makes me cringe but I know it is
so true. We are teachers. We know quality instruction. We need to remember to teach in any setting
we are in.
As a graduate student, I challenged the practice of the "pretest" for graduate school. I picked the
school, I paid for the courses and I was willing to do the work. We still think that some "test" will tell
us whether someone else has the knowledge, ability, and stamina to do graduate study-in 2008! I
asked the question, had to meet with the dean and a committee and present my case. I won, by the
way, and that was in the 1970's.
I'd like to suggest that we think of our everyday work world and dig into how we use or want to use
the Teaching Learning Cycle at whatever we do. What are the challenges? What works? What are the
stories? Where are the successes? The failures? What do we need to learn ourselves to work out the
bugs?
Geri
54
Nancy
The big issue for me is "time." Each year they add more and more curriculum and nothing is ever
taken away. It takes me about 3 weeks each card marking to do assessments for report cards and I
am running around now with a clipboard full of sticky notes trying to do careful anecdotal observations
for reflection. Where does a teacher find the time to do a careful analysis of miscue, writing samples
or running records? I feel rushed and in a pressure cooker, and I am sure I am passing that feeling on
to my students.
Nancy
55
Tammy
So well said Nancy. It is the number one barrier. I think we have to get past so much that is imposed
on our classrooms, particularly notions of coverage. My thinking (and I have said it before on our list)
is the idea that a high quality literacy curriculum is actually written in the last performance of the
learner.
Tammy
56
Geri
I loved your image, Nancy, and we all can relate to your description. There are only so many hours in
a day and how do we use them most effectively is the question. My mentor, Donald Graves, used to
tell us to ask this question. "If you want me to do this now, what is it you don't want me to do? I
always loved this question, because it is the assumption in many in our school world that we can
continue to add on and add on and stay later and later. That is not the assumption in the world of
business. What is the most important thing that I need to do today for my children, I ask myself.
Many years ago, I was hospitalized for many weeks with a serious condition. I was not allowed to get
out of bed at all. My doctor was very strict and very observant. One morning, when he came in for
rounds, I had washed my hair. He quickly observed and started in with the lecture of not being out of
bed. To this response, I added, "I worked all day yesterday and you're telling me I can't wash my
hair??? We finally made a compromise that I could get out of bed one time during the day. Of course,
I saved up all of the things I wanted to do for my one time out of bed experience and packed them all
in. I share this because with all of that "bed time,” I learned a lot about the world of hospitals. I
learned that the first thing the docs and their staff did everyday on rounds was to look at my chart-their assessment sample. They talked outside of my room before they entered--evaluating the
sample. They came in and talked to me and observed--more assessment and evaluation. The
information is all kept in one place--formative and summative. They gather more information as they
go and they record it on the spot. They treat me as ME. I took a lot of learning from that bed time
and tried to figure out what it meant for me as a teacher.
This was a big aha for me. I could actually sit down during the teaching time and record what I saw. I
carried note cards with me all the time in my pocket and at the end of a lesson or working with a child,
I jotted down brief notes. Brief strengths and next steps. I kept these cards in a file box and looked
carefully at a few every day. My planning grew from those notes--way before the days of DI. Those
notes came in so handy when I got ready for parent conferences and for IEP meetings. They were just
enough so I could recall the stories of the experience--for the parents and for the Sped Team. The doc
doesn't wait until the end of the day to record information on the patients she sees. She doesn't wait
until the end of the quarter to do the diagnostic work that needs to be done. I figured out that I could
do running records on a pretty regular basis by doing one or two a day. As long as I kept to the same
schedule of students, the data was up to date.
I hear your concerns and the concerns of all of us as teachers. How can we conquer this time issue
and do what we know is good practice?
Geri
57
Kathy
Geri,
You've hit on something very critical:
She doesn't wait until the end of the quarter to do the diagnostic work that needs to be done. I
figured out that I could do running records on a pretty regular basis by doing one or two a day. As
long as I kept to the same schedule of students, the data was up to date.
Being 'systematic' about keeping up with evaluating as you said, "on a pretty regular basis, by doing
one or two a day" for running records is a key to not becoming overwhelmed. This is also critical for
evaluating writing samples. I am fully able to manage taking and evaluating 1-2 running records a
day. Evaluating writing has been a different story. Last year, I did my best to evaluate 4--5 draft
books for spelling (Essential Words), writing process and product, each day---it was too many and I
found myself falling behind. This year, I'm going to set a schedule of students and evaluate 2-3 each
day, that way I'll have up to date data and won't be hauling home a mile-high stack of work when
report card time comes around. Even though at that pace, it takes about 2 - 3 weeks to gather a
complete set of data on my students, I think that it's sufficiently current for reporting purposes.
Kathy
58
Lenny
Kathy, sounds like you have a plan! I share in your pain of always feeling "left behind" when it comes
to checking through students' draft books because we're wanting to see what students are doing
across time and not just during the day. I remember trying to lug all of them home as well (which I
did for a long time) or staying after school to do so. I realized later that I needed to find ways to
make these kinds of notes while the kids were working in the classroom so that I could ask the
kids questions about what I saw "in the moment" rather than after they've gone home and I'm tired
and low on energy. I know some ways I tried to deliberately do this more often was by making sure
to hold a few daily conferences that involved a couple kids and looking across their pieces (again,
these were different kinds of conferences than I held during the other parts of writing time), making
notes during my check-ins because there was a lot that could be captured even while glancing over
the kids' shoulders while they were working, taking a minute to go through a draft book by myself
while the kids were working, etc. There were still times I took draft books home because it is so
difficult to find ways to manage the evaluation piece during school hours, which is why I'd be curious
to know what else you and others might do that helps make the evaluation piece something we can do
during the school day that fits naturally with what we do in the classroom. Any ideas?
Lenny
59
Deb
Kathy,
Just a quick question...do you ever do RMI's? (Reading Miscue Inventory a la Goodman, Watson, &
Burke.) I would think you would get much more information than via RR's.
Deb
60
MaryAnn
Kathy,
I can see how setting a schedule would help you do that deeper level of monitoring progress. How will
you organize and manage the day-to-day quicker pieces of assessment gathering so you know who
needs a little more support each day? I have seen children sit through writing time and get very little
writing done. This can happen for days on end. How do you keep monitor students on a daily basis?
MaryAnn
61
Richard
Geri, I am thinking about those doctors making the rounds and reading your chart. I have never seen
a chart in a hospital but I watched Ben Casey and Dr. Kildare on TV where one doctor or nurse and
then another plucked the chart from the end of the bed and flipped through a few pages. I don't know
what is on the pages of the charts, but it interests me that two, three, four, or more medical personnel
will read the chart and, I have to believe, come away with the same insight and understanding about
this patient. If the contents of the chart in a classroom were to be an RMI or a running record then I
tend to think that well-informed educators will also come away with common understandings. But I
also think that most of the information that an educator needs to capture reaches beyond a miscue
analysis. What about monitoring notes? What are the chances that five educators given the same set
of monitoring notes will come to the same conclusions about a particular learner? Would you and
others agree there needs to be a common language? Does anyone know about any existing formats
for monitoring notes that are available --commercially or as "freeware."
Richard
62
Geri
Your response really got me thinking this morning. Years ago, I worked in a kindergarten classroom in
New Hampshire with a colleague. Our classrooms were side by side and we shared the responsibility
of teaching 54 kindergarten students. We set up each classroom with some common areas and we
also had areas unique to each room. One room housed more noisy and messy areas and the other
held more quiet activities. Our class was made up of mostly low socio economic students. There were
two paraprofessionals who worked with us. There were four of us working with all of these students
and we had to come up with a way to monitor growth and plan for learning that we could all
understand and use collectively. This was the beginning of using the Teaching and Learning Cycle for
me, although I didn’t' know it at the time. I had the fortunate experience of learning from a business
in Cambridge, Mass: Synectics. This group had developed a problem solving process to support the
development of new products in business and to support other business issues. Their problem solving
process was creative and intense and it was one of the most important learning opportunities I have
ever experienced. Out of that experience came our way of monitoring student growth for our little
group. Every time one of us worked with students, we recorded on an index card- 1. the activity, 2.
the objective, 3. the strengths of understanding we saw with the child, and 4. a wish. The wish always
started with "How to..." so this was really the next step for the learning for the child. These cards were
all filed away at the end of everyday under the child's name and every afternoon, the four of us sat
together and discussed in depth four or five children and set goals based on our observations.
Everyone was an equal partner in these discussions. Reporting at conferences and on report cards was
a piece of cake because we had sooo much data. We often took running records right on the index
card and did parts of the OB survey there as well.
As you suggested, we had a common process and a common language. We all knew the expectations
and we used the information every day. We revised and tweaked and made our system work for us
and most of all, for our students. These years were the most exciting teaching years of my career. We
knew our students so well it was very easy to group, plan, and teach.
I don't know of any published monitoring notes supports. I do know that regular monitoring can be
done and is so valuable in so many ways.
What I learned from those docs made "staying in bed" all that time valuable. You are right. They could
all pick it up and use the information. The same is true today. The information is all housed in one
place. The language is common. The data is readily accessible to all.
And Maria, if you're out there on this listserve, thank you for sharing one of the most wonderful
teaching experiences in my life. We were a team before our time!
Geri
63
Deb
Oh, Geri, what a great story and experience. I do take offense - only slightly! - with your statement
that you were a 'team before our time." There is no such thing as before our time. You were a 'true'
team and it is in part because of this lovely and wonderful teaching experience that you have come to
value both yourself, others in your profession, and the students you teach and learn with. You were
experiencing true collegiality and it is an awesome experience.
Deb
64
Geri
Thank you, Debbie. You are so right. It was the collegiality in the truest sense that sparked our
energy, creativity, and passion for teaching. I have since been a part of other collegial teams that
have done the same for me. I have been a very lucky educator in my career and have learned so
much from both students and colleagues. I am, indeed, blessed and am committed to supporting
others to find this same energy in our profession. I am indeed, blessed.
Geri
65
Nancy
What are the chances that five educators given the same set of monitoring notes will come to the
same conclusions about a particular learner? Would you and others agree there needs to be a
common language? Does anyone know about any existing formats for monitoring notes that are
available --commercially or as "freeware."
I agree that there has to be a "common language" as long as it doesn't become scripted.
It sounds to me like doctors still use clipboards for notes. I'm not sure they are covered with sticky
notes like mine is, but I suspect they could have a sticky note or two on them. I'm excited because I
got a catalogue yesterday with a "storage" clipboard. I could keep my blank sticky notes, an extra
pen, and maybe a couple copies of a running record inside. It is 1 1/2 inches deep! Not
technologically advanced, but it seems like a breakthrough for me! : )
Nancy
66
Geri
Nancy,
I sure like the idea of a storage facility for clipboards. I used the old fashioned way--nails on the wall,
where clipboards were easily accessible for everyone.
I do agree that we need to have common language and I think we are doing better on that front today
in schools. I think we have some common language about the reading and writing process and about
mathematical thinking. We may have common language but I'm not sure we have common
understandings and that is where we have to explore in more depth as faculties across a school. One
of the strategies that we have used in TLN is to develop "policy statements" with a school where
everyone participates in developing the policy statement in reading, writing, math, or spelling. The
process of developing these statements is the important part because that is where the common
understandings develop and with that the ownership and commitment to the policy as a school.
There are so many supports in our classrooms today. I wonder how we can use a monitoring system
for all that becomes useful for all. I think of Title I teachers, SPED teachers, language teachers, etc.
There is never enough time in the day to share with everyone but if we could develop a common
monitoring system, an assessment sample, it would benefit the lives of all children.
Let's keep exploring it.
Geri
67
Kathryn
When I was a classroom teacher, I used a storage type clipboard. I don't recall it being very
expensive, and I got it at one of those chain office stores - Office Depot or Max. I made an index card
for each of my students, with their name printed on the bottom, and taped the entire set of index
cards to the front of the clipboard in such a way that I could see each name. Then, if something worth
noting on a card occurred, I just flipped to that kid's card and jotted a note. It was really easy for me
to keep anecdotal records this way. It was also very easy for me to flip through the cards to see
which cards were relatively sparse, and I could focus some attention on that student.
On the inside of the clipboard I had paper big enough to do running records/miscue analysis, a few
pencils, a highlighter, some paper clips, some spare index cards - little things that kept me from
having to return to my desk for supplies during the day. It was a pretty handy system!
Kathryn
68
This is a helpful item too, but pen and card.
http://www.reallygoodstuff.com/product_details.aspx?item_guid=1e73e687-f007-4902-b3753d6e0f061d08
assessment clipboard
Jan Spohn
Jan
69
Elisa
Hey Nancy,
As someone who is always trying a new way to keep notes, can you send a reference to this "storage
clipboard"?
Thanks,
Elisa
Elisa Waingort
Grade 2 Spanish Bilingual
Dalhousie Elementary
Calgary, Canada
70
Nancy
Click here: HomeRoom Search Results
http://homeroomdirect.com/search/?search=Storage+Clipboard&Button.x=10&Button.y=11
It is a little pricey. Something to think about though.
Nancy
71
Jan
Hmmm, many doctors I see have small handhelds that they voice patient notes into – or a blackberry
that syncs the notes into their patient files (or gets synced by their office staff!)
My endo for example has all records digitized so when you visit he pulls up your electronic file (that he
shares with my primary doc too). He has current and past ultrasounds of my thyroid right before him
side by side. My eye doctor maintains the same sort of records including retina images that are
updated from the five minutes you spend in an anteroom where your eyes are scanned, your
peripheral vision is checked electronically, and your retina scan taken. She then performs the
somewhat standard eye chart exam herself and does check the eye pressures ‘manually’ but surely
doesn’t ‘write’ those items down with pen and pad – just inserts it into the electronic file.
I am also sure that she didn’t need to purchase the software herself (came from expenses of the office
practice) nor search for freeware!
Jan
72
Geri
I like your descriptions of using up to date technology. I know there are educational companies that
are exploring the use of the blackberry and other devices for collecting data. In most school districts,
the tech department is sacred and hasn't faced many cuts yet. This is the time to make the suggestion
to the tech person about how you might be able to use this technology in the classroom. They want to
support the use and are usually very excited to support teachers in their work. This is a grant waiting
to be written---Go for it!
Geri
73
Deb
Yes, they are...remember DIBELS and their PDA's?
Deb
74
Jan
I disagree here – yes, DIBELS (sometimes) has the PDAs but just think if teachers had an open ended
assessment tool – that could snap a quick digital sample, have a speech to text item (or maintain a
voice clip on each assessment artifact and then the sync would put it into a timeline for each student –
an electronic type of assessment record that teachers and parents could review.
Likely that won’t happen soon since I am finding that technology innovation in many schools has to be
‘off the network’ – hard to even get permission for a classroom teacher flash drive or digital camera
reader! But I do firmly believe that it is possible! Heck have you watched You Tube or Teacher Tube
and seen the blogs, podcasts, and productions from 2nd grade students?
Jan Spohn
75
Deb
I was just commenting that someone's wistful thinking was already here such as technology use for
assessment records is already here ala DIBELS and nothing else. It was a snappy retort that probably
shouldn't have been said.
I get concerned that in our rush to make things simple to record that the recording becomes the
important thing and not the students. An audio tape recorder, pocket size and voice activated, does
the same thing. I think a spreadsheet would work.
I integrate authentic use of technology for kids in preschool through college so I'm all for all of this. I
do have problems with using a camcorder except in special circumstances. There are just too many
custody plus many other issues that kids have to contend with to justify their use on an everyday
basis.
Thanks for responding.
Debbie
76
Geri
I love your passion and your vision for an idea to make assessment much easier and more efficient for
classroom teachers. Don't give up on your idea, it's a great one and we can all use this kind of
support. I've been observing who gets the blackberries or tablets in schools-interesting data. Take a
look around you. Who has the latest techie stuff and how they are using it for email, phone messages,
calendars… I do believe there is someone out there who can help you take your notion to a higher
level. Maybe it's not the district person, maybe it's a software company, or a computer manufacturer.
The DIBELS use is way low level, compared to your thinking!
Geri
77
Nancy
I'm thinking about this some more. Basically, what we are doing when we take monitoring notes, or
anecdotal observations or field notes (common language?) is a kind of research case study. When I
think about it in those terms, there are software programs that help to organize data. One that I am a
little familiar with is NUD*IST. There are others as well. These programs don't analyze the data, but
do help with the organization of it if you have a lot of data. When I need help with analyzing, say for
a particular student, I usually go to colleagues, a trusted mentor, or a listserv like this one. I did that
here with one of my RMI's a few months ago.
Nancy
78
Marilyn
One thing that struck me when reading the book Breakthrough by Michael Fullan, Peter Hill, and
Carmel Crevola was the use of the term "learning information". They work from the understanding
that assessment data is raw data - it only has value when seen in the context of student learning. It
becomes learning information when the raw data is evaluated thus providing information about the
individual's learning progress. So in the case of the running record or an RMI, the coding I use as I
administer the assessment is just raw data. My evaluation of this data becomes learning information
when it's seen in the context of a student's actual learning behavior. For example the raw data from a
running record becomes learning information as a summary statement. It's a simple concept but to me
has huge implications based on my personal experience.
What has to be kept in mind is that the quality of the learning information is dependent upon the
quality of the assessment data that is gathered. In other words, the teacher has to see the link
between the usefulness of the data being gathered and the learning information about the student it
will provide. I know that when I first learned miscue analysis and running records the learning
information gained was not of the highest quality because I didn't see the link between the miscue
data and learning. The more I learned about reading process and how children learn, the higher the
quality of my learning information.. Once again, it's what the teacher knows and understands about
how the quality of assessment data determines the quality of learning information that needs to be the
focus of professional development.
Marilyn
79
MaryAnn
Hi Marilyn,
It's so good to hear your voice in this conversation! As always your thoughts challenge my current
thinking.
Right now I'm thinking that when planning for professional development on assessment that it's
almost like I need to take a step back. I need to examine what students need to learn. Then I need
to think about how the professional development will support teachers in that and plan how teachers
will consider the information they need to gather (assessment) about their learners. They would
also consider what questions they would be asking (based on what students need to learn) as they
evaluate the assessment.
An example:
Student learning
Students will draw inferences and support them with text evidence and experiences.
Teachers would be asking themselves what does this actually mean? How do I do this as a reader?
What professional resources will help me understand inferring?
What information do I need to gather about my students? How will I gather this information? How
can I find out how they are thinking as readers?
Evaluation: What would I be looking for in the student responses/assessment that will tell if they are
inferring? Can they give examples of what was in the text that they linked to their experiences to
read between the lines?
Well, thanks for letting me think out loud and work on clarifying my understandings! I'm wondering
though what I may be missing?
MaryAnn
80
Kathy
Mary Ann,
Thank you for "thinking out loud.” So often it seems that we think we know what students need to
learn, but we (I) need to ask ourselves "What do I understand about... and what more do I need to
know about ...in order to further student's learning?"
Kathy
81
Priscilla
Wow. What a powerful concept. Assessments as raw data that have to be analyzed within contexts of
learning. Thanks for sharing this one...need to check out that book!
Priscilla Shannon Gutierrez
Outreach Specialist
Center for Information, Training and Professional Development
New Mexico School for the Deaf
82
Sally
Listening in, not usually active in this list serve...I am an elementary teacher for many years. My
experience with keeping notes during the actual work time with students (not one-on-one work or
conferencing) is that the process can get in the way of engagement with the kids, and meeting the
needs in the moment. I truly believe that with one person in the classroom and twenty some children,
taking monitoring notes needs to be check list of a few goals of the lesson. Most of the focus is on
dialogue with the learner...dialogue that is so authentic that the assessment piece will be clear and
embedded in the teacher's experience, and will lead to clear refocusing of instructional goals. It is
advisable a few notes taken after the lesson.
Sally
83
Geri
Thanks for contributing, Sally. You are absolutely right. The focus is always on the child and her
learning. I find the same when I am in the doc's office. I don't feel the doc isn't listening to me or
doesn't observe what is going on. She is taking an assessment sample the whole time and usually
writes down stats right away, such as blood pressure, etc. Then, as I am leaving the office, she writes
her notes, uses her computer or blackberry or dictates right away. We talk a lot about job-embedded
professional development. I think we need to think a lot about job-embedded assessment, in whatever
form it takes. It's not just the high stakes testing that is important and if we keep all the
observational data that we collect daily in our heads, then we have no data to counteract the claims of
the high stakes. Whatever way we can collect the data efficiently and effectively is so valuable in so
many ways. Sounds like you have found some ways to make it work for you. Thanks for sharing.
Geri
84
Kathy
I try to set a focus for my monitoring notes for a particular lesson or activity. For example are we
working on writing a strong lead, or strategies for adding two digit numbers. I find if I set my focus or
present myself with a question my notes are brief and to the point and allow me more time for
interaction with students. Of course there are always those things that I just have to make a note
of...
Kathy
85
Yvonne
Suggestion: tape record your teaching interactions so that you can examine the teaching-learning
interactions. I did this frequently and learned a lot.
Yvonne
86
Mark
I was working with a teacher this year as a one-on-one coach and this teacher figured out how to
"assess" by giving quizzes whenever he felt students needed to check what they
Know/Understand/and can do. He used the Red, Yellow and Green light for his check for
understanding. The students didn't actually get graded on the quizzes and they corrected each other’s
quiz as he went over the answers. This teacher felt the kids check for their own understanding of
mastery allowed them to be more transparent about what they Know/Understand and were able and
not yet able to do. This helped both the teacher and the students know where they were with the new
learning and things that still needed to be clarified in each one’s own mastery of the subject (Math in
this case).
Mark
87
MaryAnn
Mark, your example reminded what an important role feedback plays in learning. I love the way this
teacher found such a simple way to involve the students in assessing themselves to know what they
need to work on.
MaryAnn
88
Helen
Hi Geri,
Please elaborate on the following from your opening statement:
the importance of publishing work with no errors.”
“Do the teachers here understand
Helen
Helen Schotanus
Site Coordinator, NH Reading Recovery Site
Consultant, Primary Education/Reading
Division of Instruction
Department of Education
101 Pleasant Street
Concord, NH 03301
89
Pat
Publishing the work with no errors is a big discussion at our schools. What is your position on this and
what is the justification. Thank you.
Pat K
90
Geri
I think I responded to this question earlier but will take a stab at it again because it is seems to be a
pressing issue.
Publishing work in writing is when the work goes to the intended audience. It is when others will read
the work. The message is clear; the idea is ready to be communicated to a reader. If you want a
reader to return to your work, you need to earn her respect.
Think of yourself as a reader. When you come across errors in newspapers, magazines, or books that
you are reading, how do you respond? Does a shiver go down your spine with an obvious misuse of a
word or an incorrect spelling? Why do publishers hire proofreaders and editors?
Think of it another way. If you have put your blood, sweat and tears into your piece of writing, don't
you want someone to take the time to read it, enjoy it, or learn from it? If it is difficult to read and if
“their” is spelled “thier” are you going to continue?
Proofreading and editing are an important part of the writing process for all writers. For years, that is
where we focused the teaching of writing: on the surface. We have learned so much from the work of
Janet Emig, Donald Murray, and Donald Graves about focusing on the meaning of the piece and
learning to revise to make it even better. We have learned that proofreading is not the emphasis for
the writing. It is, however, still a part of the process and an important part, as we go into publication.
As we focus on the Teaching Learning Cycle, how does that fit with proofreading? I will look at a
student work for spelling or conventions. I look carefully to see what the student can already do. If
they are spelling “thier,” they are 98% correct. This is a word they will use in most of their reading
and writing. I want them to know that it is nearly correct and I will take that word as a spelling word
for that child. I have gathered my assessment through the student work. I have determined where I
can work from strength and will plan for teaching spelling, coming from my assessment and
evaluation.
Geri
91
Pat
Thank you. I have always agreed with this point of view, but I need to be able to establish a policy for
our gifted magnet, so I thank you for the information.
Pat K
92
Beth
Actually, I am confused by your view of publishing, at least for first grade. My understanding of
Writers Workshop is that first graders fix what they can, through a process of editing and revising and
conferencing, and leave the rest alone. I believe the saying is (something like), "Teach the learner, not
the piece of writing." I think that for little ones, our teaching needs to be student-centered, rather
than product-centered.
Perhaps you were referring to older students?
Yours,
Beth
93
Cindy
BethI think we need to think about who is doing the publishing. For emergent and early writers, the
teacher does the publishing and the student illustrates. This way these developing readers have
correct models that they can read independently and still get their writing to the intended audience. It
also helps to develop understandings about different writing forms and provides an opportunity for
teaching points based on the needs of the writer.
Cindy B
94
Priscilla
A couple of comments about publishing...
One is the importance of remembering you don't publish/perfect every single piece of writing. Shelley
Harwayne talks about reserving the editing and publishing process for only the best pieces that are
meant to be seen by an audience. With very young children who are just coming to know writing, we
want to encourage risk-taking and the understanding of written language as an extension of one's
self. That means we are likely going to publish less in a first grade classroom compared with a 5th
grade class. If we try to ensure every single piece of writing is perfect or if writing means doing
worksheets, we are going to kill their desire to write.
Also, Beth is spot on with the comment about teaching the learner. As Ralph Fletcher tells us, "Errors
are internal, not on the page."
Priscilla Shannon Gutierrez
Outreach Specialist
Center for Information, Training and Professional Development
New Mexico School for the Deaf
95
Tammy
Love this comment on publishing Priscilla. Thank you. Your description and reference to Harwayne
and Fletcher are dead on. Emergent children need to be focused on the message rather than the
conventions. They need to trust their emerging understanding of the alphabetic principle. All that
phonics connected to real stories... tends to result in irregular spellings early on... but these, just like
high quality miscues in reading, are the errors of the fluent!
Tammy
96
Cindy
PriscillaI disagree with the idea that we publish young children less--I actually want to publish them the
most. We want them to have their published pieces as independent reading material and through
publishing I make teaching points such as concepts of print, letter sounds, and others. If we don't
publish their writing often, I think we lose something about having a sense of audience. It is the
teacher who publishes their writing, not making young children recopy until perfect.
Cindy B
97
Lori
Our kindergarten and first grade teachers find that an over-emphasis on perfection can strip the writer
from the piece and have made a strong and convincing case for publishing with only revisions made by
the author. They can read their meaningful inventions and then flounder with the 'fixed' piece. As long
as we are moving children forward in their understanding of how language works, I haven't had any
problems at all with this.
Lori
98
Priscilla
Having our first grade students make books and use them as reading material is a natural way to
boost motivation. When I taught first grade we made lots and lots of books - either collaboratively as
a group or as individuals. That wasn't what I meant. I was referring to correcting everything that a
first grader writes e.g. journals, reflections, letters, opinions, etc.
Thanks for the opportunity to clarify what I was talking about.
Priscilla Shannon Gutierrez
Outreach Specialist
Center for Information, Training and Professional Development
New Mexico School for the Deaf
99 Geri
I do agree that not all writing is taken to publication. I also know that editing and proofreading don't
come at the end. We want students to start asking themselves, just as we do, as writers, "Does this
look right"? They then have the opportunity to play with spelling, just as adult writers do. Don Murray
always taught me that to edit too soon is fruitless, because you may end up taking out the entire
paragraph or sentence. It is not a tight, easy package.
I think differently about publishing for the younger writers. I want to publish them very often because
I know that those first pieces of writing often become their first pieces of reading and I want them to
have lots of those. The role of the teacher here is to do a lot of the proofreading and teaching the
writer to learn one new skill--maybe in this case, the relationship of one sound to one letter. I fully
agree with the need for all writers to be risk takers. In my experience of teaching writing, it is often
more challenging to work with adult writers to take risks than to work with these young writers.
I certainly agree with Beth about teaching the learner. That's what the teaching and learning cycle is
all about. Carefully observing, listening, watching, recording, evaluating, and planning for new learning
to occur based on the most recent evaluated assessment sample. This is often done on the run and it
is this gift that outstanding teachers bring to us.
Thanks for pushing our thinking.
Geri
100
Pat
I don't publish everything, especially in the beginning. The children keep work in their writing folders
in brainstorm or draft stage for weeks at a time. They then choose pieces to publish. They then edit,
peer edit, and finally edit it with me before publishing.
Pat K
101
Priscilla
While I completely agree we should not overwhelm our first graders in trying to learn too many skills
at once, I have to respectfully disagree that if I am teaching writing to first grade students that one of
the skills I would focus on would be the relationship of one sound to another -- that would be one of
the last things I'd focus on in writing, especially given the graphophemic variation of English, not to
mention them getting so hung up on orthographic conventions that they won't write unless they know
how to spell every word.
If I am teaching writing, one of the first skills I'd focus on is the understanding that you can't write the
same as you think ("...and then, and then, and then...). I'd also focus on understanding the concept
of writing for an audience and how form follows function, on organizing their thoughts in a coherent
manner so that the reader/audience can get in sync with what the writer/author has to say, and on
words that thrill v. ones that are more mundane.
Priscilla
101
Tammy
For me, what you have stated is the focus is on the audience and the intended purpose or message.
As readers, we want students to focus on meaning ...comprehension, comprehension, comprehension.
As writers, I want my students to focus on the making of meaning... the message first and the
conventions - very important, but second. This is a challenging idea as so much of our teaching or
writing still focuses on conventions and form... rather than meaning. The older the learner, the more
they have internalized standard conventions. I focus as much or more attention noting standard
conventions in the books I share with children as in their own emergent efforts.
I have seen very simple texts edited for publication by the teacher to be taken home by a proud
student who was "broken" (literally crying) when she could not read the story to Mom. The story had
a repeated refrain... including the word "laugh." The child wrote "laff." The irregular "au" and "gh"
just baffled her when she sat in her mother’s lap to read the piece, which was a poem. I would rather
her have the bliss of reading her poem to her mother (at age 6) than the conventional spelling of
"laugh" but no ability yet to decode. I solve the problem of "spelling bee" Moms by noting with a
stamp that the text was emergent and may include unconventional spellings typical to the age, but
also totally logical.
Tammy
102
Yvonne
Absolutely! Meaning must be front and center of our practices. We need to see from our students'
perspectives.
That's been a lot of the problem--those who make policy don't see.
Yvonne
103
Priscilla
Actually, what I'm trying to say is we absolutely must encourage writing through authentic
experiences - many of which may not initially get edited or corrected. As students get hooked in and
becoming developing writers, we need to help them distinguish between writing for one's self and
writing for others (as well as the other things I mentioned). It's not an either/or situation. They need
to do both. But learning always starts with self and using language to get things done. So as
teachers we need to start with the desire to self-express through written language and then expand
the repertoire over time to include writing outside your own personal sphere.
Priscilla Shannon Gutierrez
Outreach Specialist
Center for Information, Training and Professional Development
New Mexico School for the Deaf
104
Tammy
Yes... and our attention needs to be driven by the learner.... where she is developmentally, how
fragile or how robust in his or her willingness to take risks, move out of comfort zones.
Tammy
105
Priscilla
Isn't it true as well that we teachers need to move out of our comfort zones? Not an easy task means we have to be risk-takers alongside our students...
Priscilla Shannon Gutierrez
Outreach Specialist
Center for Information, Training and Professional Development
New Mexico School for the Deaf
106
Yvonne
Right on, Priscilla. The teaching-learning situation depends on the learners. Our learners and meaning
must remain utmost in whatever we do.
Sounds simple, but putting this notion into practice isn't. This is why the more teachers know and the
more they focus on students (who like teachers are different), the more variability there is among
classrooms - a good thing. This why the cookie cutter, factory model is NOT appropriate in schools. If
the financial industry knows this (when making a financial plan for clients a CFP will create a plan that
is designed specifically for each client and the CFP team will adjust the plan to accommodate for
economic and personal changes of their clients), then why do we keep using the factory model in
schools?
Yvonne
107
Cindy
PriscillaI definitely agree with you that it is very important to not get any writers feeling that they can only
write words that they can spell. That is why it is important to teach them how to use letter sounds to
give words they don't know a try. Then their ideas will be able to flow and we can work on the heart
of writing--the ideas that you talk about. I don't wait to teach these skills until the others are taught,
and one set doesn't get taught without the others. For example, with an emergent writer, I may have
talked in my demonstration about how to organize my ideas to avoid those "list type" stories. While
the child was writing that day we may have worked with the alphabet card and linking the picture of
the horse to the letter h that she needed when writing the word home, and the next day she may be
part of a small group working on adding some great descriptive words to their pieces. While I
published with this writer alongside me, I would re-emphasize some of these ideas as we talked
through her story. The child reads from her writing "My mom held my hand." As I am writing this in
her little book, I would stop before writing “held” and say, "H-held...what letter do I need?" And then
do the same with hand. The next week when I take a running record on her reading her published
book to me, I could assess what she does when she comes to those words as well as look for evidence
in her writing.
Cindy
108
Thanks Cindy. This is a great snapshot of what goes on in the classroom with these young writers.
Thanks for creating the image for us.
Geri
Geri
109
MaryAnn
One of the things I notice in your description Cindy is that the writer had first focused on what she
wanted to say and had written that down to the best of her ability. You then helped her apply what
she was learning about sounds and letters in her writing. Since she already was clear about what she
wanted to say she could more easily focus how she could spell the word using its beginning sound.
How did you know she was ready to do this? Was this something you had planned to do ahead of time
or was this one of those times the TLC was going in your mind as as you worked with your students.
Another thing that shines through in your description is the connection between writing and reading.
You said you used the child's writing for a running record so you were able to gather reading
assessment from the child's writing. Are there other ways that you connect reading and writing
through the students published books?
MaryAnn
110
Beth
I think the connection between reading and writing is absolute, but it’s different for every child. Some
children – often the absolute beginners to reading and writing – don’t yet see the connection between
letters and sounds. To them, the initial letter – or whatever combination of letters they’ve written -often represents the whole word. When I’ve tried retyping or rewriting their work to use for their first
reading, they could no longer recognize what they’d written. Other children were different, were
thrilled to have their story typed, and often applied their own, “new” words to future reading and
writing.
I find that editing and revising with young children is such a delicate thing. Some are perfectionists,
and stop in their tracks as soon as they find a mistake, or (worse) think that YOU’ve found one. Others
are the reverse, and don’t care two hoots about editing or revising. Some children need to be taught
with a whisper, others need the teacher to be very firm.
I have spent a career child watching. I watch, and adjust my teaching, and watch, and adjust. I try to
be responsive to each child’s development, and to match it to a curriculum that I hope is
developmentally appropriate. I teach – and watch again. And adjust. And so on. The cycle continues.
My experience is varied and rather unusual. I have taught in inner London in the open classroom, in
Manhattan in an alternative public school, in the northeastern USA as a math developer and teacher
trainer, and as a first grade teacher and early childhood professor on Long Island. The one thing I
have found consistently is that children are different from each other, and often surprise me. If my
teaching doesn’t respond to where they are, to what I’ve learned about how they learn, something is
lost.
Yours,
Beth
111
Priscilla
Beth - your experiences with rewriting student work is evidence of loss of ownership. If they don't
own it, they struggle to recognize even "their own work."
One of the best approaches with my emergent writers and readers was "The Weekly Wall." At the
beginning of the year, I took a picture of each of my students, pasted it to an 18 x 11 piece of
construction paper with brads as holders for student work. Every Monday when they came in, they
had to write about what they did over the weekend and date the work. We'd place it on top of the
previous week's sample. As the semester passed, they could see their own progress -- none of the
samples looked the same as at the beginning. I vividly remember one young man whose mom was
illiterate and whose dad was in jail coming to me down and out. He felt he wasn't making any
progress. I escorted him over to "The Weekly Wall" where we lifted up papers he'd written months
ago. His astonishment at the progress he'd made was a delight to behold and provided a shot of selfbolstered motivation.
We weren't publishing per se, just documenting the year as it passed. But from their samples, I could
see what areas needed to be worked on, who needed more 1:1 support, who was taking off, etc. It
was part of the Body of Evidence within my own TLC.
Priscilla Shannon Gutierrez
Outreach Specialist
Center for Information, Training and Professional Development
New Mexico School for the Deaf
112
Beth
Priscilla,
I hadn’t thought that the typing (for the hall) was taking ownership away from the kids, but you’re
right. That’s exactly what it did, and the beginning readers didn’t recognize it as their own.
This year, in summer school, I was assigned a TA who’d never heard of Writers Workshop. (She’s been
working in the Art room in her school, but was assigned to help me for the summer.) On the first day,
she went to CORRECT one of my (last year) kids’ pieces of writing by writing directly in his notebook,
and erasing his work. He and I both gasped in horror. Afterwards, the little boy and I looked at each
other, and he smiled. The TA was such a novice! He forgave her! Since then, she apologized. I didn’t
have to say much. Our gasps said it all.
Up until March, this boy wrote stories like this: “Yjr noh npu ermy yp yjr jpidr.”
He would read back what he’d written, and I’d say, “Ah ha. Ah ha.” We worked on words and sounds,
but he didn’t seem to connect either with writing. He could word call 60 flash cards, but he couldn’t
connect those words with meaning. He kept “writing,” though, and illustrating. I started taking
dictation, and writing cards for him to match back to his sentences. He could match, but he still
couldn’t read, and his writing resembled English, but wasn’t. And then, one day – all of a sudden – he
could read. Just like that!!! He went from being an A reader to an E overnight. He was a G a week
ago, and now he’s reading H books.
I think the reason that he forgave the TA is that he now owns his own writing!
Yours,
Beth
113
Tammy
This story gave me goose bumps Beth. I never tire of hearing these "light bulb" moment stories of
emergent readers and writers. It takes my breath away to see it happen every time.
Tammy
114
Beth
It’s thrilling to be his summer school teacher. He’s the top of the group, supposedly ranging from E to
G. In actuality, there’s a little boy who’s only reading at the C level, and there’s “my” boy, who can
read all sorts of books! How wonderful for his morale. He’ll start school in September a completely
new kid! His math, too, has really taken off. I was so proud to hear him explaining Base 10 to one of
his new friends. Confidence breeds confidence. He’s palled up with such a sweet boy.
I think he must be a global learner. Now that he can read, he’s beginning to make his own sense of
phonics. He needed to understand reading before he could learn its parts. I’ll need to add this to his
record, to help teachers figure out how he learns.
Very thrilling, as you say.
Beth
115
Geri
Growth in learning is so exciting to be a part of and to relish the joy! I do believe that is what keeps us
all in this business! Your comment about sharing what you have learned with his new teachers in the
fall is just a wonderful example of our topic these three days on the listserve. This is your evaluated
assessment sample, which will support their planning for his new learning.
What do we mean when we describe a child as reading at a C level. Is this a common understanding
across schools, districts and grade levels? What characteristics of a reader and a writer is he able to
do at this level? What is the appropriate next teaching point? I always find Margaret Mooney's
Characteristics of Readers and Writers to be a wonderful resource to support me as I purposely plan
for next learning steps for readers and writers.
Geri
116 Sally
Where does one find Margaret Mooney's Characteristics of Readers and Writers?
Any specific resource?
In our district, we are looking at Bonnie Campbell Hill's reading and writing continuums. We are
hoping to let this be our way of evaluating student growth, setting goals with students, and teaching
more specifically. Has anyone had experience with such continuum work?
Sally
117
Tammy
When our collections include only the published texts, we actually loose the critical assessment sample
that not only documents this growth, but also the errors that help us see the child as a reader and
writer to drive the TLC. Hence, the draft book. In my school, we have children on computers drafting
in the last semester of kinder and on going. This is in addition to paper and pencil texts. Their draft
books and electronic files show a remarkable record of growth over time. Most telling and helpful are
the errors. Errors illuminate both writing ... and reading skills needing attention.
I loved your wall idea. What a treasure to be able to show students and their parents this growth.
Tammy
118
Priscilla
I am so with you on analyzing the errors. Or as Marilyn reminds us, miscues. Again, they are internal
and we can't leave out the writer in the process of evaluating, recognizing what/where they went
wrong, and most importantly "where to go from here."
Priscilla Shannon Gutierrez
Outreach Specialist
Center for Information, Training and Professional Development
New Mexico School for the Deaf
119
Yvonne
Tammy is right! Students' writing provide important information for our teaching.
Yvonne
120
Priscilla
I used dialectical journals as a vehicle to teach students how to spell words. After the child draws a
picture and writes something about the picture, you ask them to tell you what they wrote. The
teacher then writes an authentic response to the child, trying to incorporate some of the words the
child tried to write. I didn't scribe for the child because one of the goals of the journal is get young
children to see writing as a means for authentic communication.
Over time, most children will begin to either write the word on their own or realize they can go back in
their journal to find where it is spelled correctly. For those who get stuck on invented spelling, I
"prod" them using more of an Elkonin approach in addition to a "sounding out" approach. For
example, if a child keeps writing /pl/ for /play/, I will write p l __ __ and then help the child negotiate
the letters that they are missing ("What might come after /p/ and /l/?" Can you hear the sound?
What about that last letter? We can't hear it, but have you seen the word before? Where could we
find it?" etc.) Because /y/ is virtually silent in this word, they have to get beyond sounding it out and
think of p-l-a-y as a whole unit.
Priscilla
121
Geri
I work with young children in classrooms every day, and now in the summertime I go to my neighbor's
daycare every afternoon to work alongside children from 12 months to 8 years so I get to stay fresh
and in touch with young children every day. How do these young children learn the sound to letter
connections if we don't show them how? I'm not suggesting that we don't pay attention to the
meaning of the writing. Children know they have something to say. How do they learn to use the
graphophonetics that they need in order for others to be able to understand their message? I know
there are many teachers of young children on this listserve. Can you share a snapshot of how this
looks in your classroom? I don't think any of us believe that the phonetic piece is the most important
piece but from being on this listserve for a long time and learning the RMI directly from Yetta many
years ago, I understand that it is only one cueing system that we use as readers. A good reference for
further reading on this topic is The Kindergarten Book by Marilyn Duncan. She describes in great detail
working alongside of these young writers.
Are you here, Marilyn? Can you share your thinking? Deb Freeman and David Matteson have also
spent a lifetime working with preschoolers, kindergarteners and children of other ages. They have
produced some materials which also have valuable information on this topic. Chime in here, Deb and
David. We are all pushing the envelope, so let's continue to explore our learning.
Geri
122
Elisa
Hi,
You ask, "How do these young children learn the sound to letter connections if we don't show them
how?" Children learn their sounds through heavy doses of exposure to story reading, talking about
environmental print, and using their names and those of significant others in their lives as starting
points for learning letter sound relationships. In my early childhood classroom I often do a lot of "in
the moment" teaching as I assess what my students need at any particular point in time. I do not
explicitly teach letter sounds to the group and have found that doing a more natural, holistic approach
works well for all children. If a child needs something else or seems not to be moving forward, I will
work with that child one-to-one for brief periods every day. I have found that exposure that is
meaningful, joyful, and builds on what children know is the most effective way to teach anything. I'm
sure others will have more to add to this thread.
Elisa
Elisa Waingort
Grade 2 Spanish Bilingual
Dalhousie Elementary
Calgary, Canada
123
Geri
Hi Elisa,
Your snapshot is a wonderful example of using the teaching and learning cycle on the run. You are
teaching in the moment, assessing, evaluating, and planning for teaching right there as you see the
child's need. That is exactly what using TLC is all about. It isn't always using formative or summative
assessment samples. It most often is in the moment.
Just to clarify, I do agree with all of those ways you shared about teaching sound to letter. I definitely
am not suggesting teaching to the whole group. I am only trying to help us look deeper into a
construct and to be able to analyze what we see and move THIS child forward in their learning. I can
do that in the moment, just as you are suggesting. I want this child to have control over one more
piece of information today that he didn't have yesterday. Thanks for sharing these examples with us.
Geri
124
MaryAnn
I'd like to just connect into what Elisa and Geri are sharing here about teaching in the moment. As we
teach we have some opportunities to gather rich assessment that we won't wait to act on or write a
plan the next day, but rather will use that information to teach at that moment. It really is the TLC in
motion as we work with our students!
It is so helpful to hear the teaching examples today. I hope we can hear more to help us examine and
understand the TLC at work in the classroom.
MaryAnn
125
Geri
Good evening,
A great discussion today with many approaches to the Teaching Learning Cycle. In my work, I find
that as teachers and coaches and principals develop deeper understandings of the TLC, the work of
the schools and classrooms change. The challenge comes to develop these same understandings at
the district level. What is your experience at using the TLC at the district level?
One of my biggest frustrations is district inservice days. I see these days being negotiated as part of
teacher contracts. I do believe they can be very useful days. What I often find, though, is that there is
little thought given to gathering assessment samples and evaluating faculty needs. So the one size fits
all approach abounds all over this country. IF we believe that assessment and evaluation is important
in the lives of our students and in our schools, then what can we do to scaffold the understandings at
the district level to plan for instruction for faculty based on evaluated assessments?
Geri
126
MaryAnn
I'm always amazed at the parallels of using the Teaching and Learning Cycle for classroom instruction
and for professional development experiences for schools. I suspect that one reason districts end up
going with one size fits all PD is that to provide different PD experiences for schools you have to
organize and manage differently.
One of the things we've done is to have faculties analyze and evaluate school-wide assessment, such
as writing samples with a rubric, and then collect the data from the evaluation. They would
analyze their grade level data looking for trends in terms of areas of strength and areas of needs.
From that the school could develop a focus for both student learning and consequently teacher
learning. This effort did take strong collaboration from district personnel and school leadership,
but you could see the evidence of learning in students and in teachers. There was a shift in attitudes
as well as knowledge and skills.
I'm eager to hear some other examples of district use of the TLC and to explore challenges districts
and schools have when attempting to do this. Geri had a great question at the end of her message.
Does someone have some thoughts to share?
MaryAnn
127
Cher
I suspect that one reason districts end up going with one size fits all PD is that to provide different PD
experiences for schools you have to organize and manage differently.
I'd like to look into your statement a little further, MaryAnn. First of all, who is the "you" that
organizes and manages PD? If it's merely a select few at the district level, I don't see much chance
for differentiation in PD. As much as some district personnel would like to know (or like to THINK they
know) what happens in the classroom, those understandings reside mainly with the teachers and
students (principals as well, if they are not chained to their Blackberries). If PD is to be relevant to
ALL stakeholders, the major ones being students, then shouldn't there be more voices at the table?
When you think about classroom instruction, there is a time for whole group, small group, and
individual learning. The same can be applied to professional learning. At my previous building, we
mined data (all sorts of data) for quite some time. We analyzed on various scales - building,
department, grade, class, student. From that came building goals, grade and department goals, and
personal learning goals. This is how PD articulation began. Each teacher had their own action
research plan (directed by the data)... some decided to form groups. All action research plans were in
alignment with department/grade level goals (of course, because we were all looking at the data
together). And all department/grade level goals were supportive of the building goal.
I think you get where this is headed. So, what do you suppose the district responsibility would be in
all of this? How would the TLC look? Also, how does something like this create what Fullan calls
"lateral capacity"? Looking at my second paragraph, it all looks very logical and makes complete
sense. HOWEVER, if what I mentioned at the very beginning is not addressed, it can be extremely
messy. It comes down to creating a culture not based on power and posturing, but learning and
transparency.
Cher
128
Geri
Thanks for sharing your experiences, MaryAnn. I do agree that it is a long term process and that
attitudes and thinking has to change along the way. My vision is to see school districts really dig into
their assessment data and analyze it and then plan for professional development based on the data.
Too often, I experience, "We have a PD coming up, what will we do?" When the conditions for learning
are not put into place for adults, they tune out, complain and see the PD as a waste of time. My
mission is to help us think through at the district level how we can do that more effectively.
I worked with a district recently that went through the process of collecting and analyzing their data at
the school and district level and used it to plan professional development for the year. They thought
about what they learned that everyone needed and brought in an effective speaker to address the
general needs and then offered sessions where teachers could choose the learning experiences that
best fit their needs. So not only did they use the assessment and evaluation part of TLC but they also
planned with their objectives in mind and provided experiences for small group, large group and
independent learning. So the planning part of TLC was very much in place. It's out of the box thinking
but oh, so valuable. I'm not sure I have given the details of this experience justice, so if you are out
there, Chris, chime in and give us more details.
I love thinking about using TLC at this level and the potential it brings to making a difference with
student achievement. I'd love to hear other's thinking on this topic.
Geri
129
Chris
The district model that Geri was referring to was how we planned for our professional development in
my school district. The focus for the district was set based on our district data (writing) with outcomes
for students and outcomes for teachers. When we planned for the learning for teachers, we thought
about all the opportunities for professional development we had for the year and then set forth a plan
for whole group, small group and individual support. Some of the examples of this were a district day
for all staff with a keynote that addressed the whole group for a short time, then our coaches offered
sessions based on the focus and then the staff self-selected sessions to fit their needs (three small
group sessions) on-line prior to the whole day experience. We also have grade department meetings,
so again we used those meetings to address the needs of the grade level with the district focus in
mind. We have building level professional development that the leadership teams plan so these were
whole group opportunities for the individual schools to provide professional development based on the
district focus but with their school's needs in mind and finally we had the coaches who worked with
small groups and individuals through action plans based on the district focus. It was important to
make sure that the coaches and principals were prepared to support their buildings, so we had
monthly focus meetings for coaches and principals to "learn" based on the district focus. Because I
visit each building on a monthly basis, I was able to gather an assessment sample of where the
coaches and principals were in reference to the district focus and plan accordingly for those focus
meetings. It was also possible for the leadership teams in each building to monitor the progress of
their students and teachers towards their school goals (based on the district focus) and plan
accordingly. Conceptually, this was our plan. Just like everything, it didn't all go smoothly. We were
the most successful with the elementary schools because they have been in this process much longer.
The middle school will be more onboard this next year (at least the ELA department) and because our
high school just found out they didn't make AYP in ELA (the only department that didn't), I suspect
they may be getting onboard as well. I think that the challenge at this point is to maintain our focus
(and you do know that in a district you are still needing to juggle other things as well) and continue
forward.
I do know that we are making a shift in the elementary schools with reference to technology, so again
we used the district data to choose a grade level to begin a pilot project and will continue to use the
district focus of writing and the teaching and learning cycle as our lens. So, the challenge for us right
now is not to encourage the use of "cool" technology, but instead ask the questions, What do our
students need to know and understand about writing and technology? What do our teachers need to
know and understand about writing, technology and teaching/learning? How can technology be used
as a "resource" to get to those student outcomes (planning-objective/grouping/ "resource"/teaching)?
Some of our teachers know a lot about "cool" technology, but we need to support them to use the T/L
cycle in order to determine when technology would be the best "resource" to get to their objective.
The cycle lives on!!!
Sincerely,
Chris
Chris Kindy
Literacy Coordinator
Lakeview School District
15 Arbor Street
Battle Creek, Michigan 49015
130
Geri
Thanks so much for sharing this with us, Chris. It is snapshots like these that give us hope and models
to support authentic, meaningful, and energizing professional development in our schools. I see data
valued and used, and more importantly, the professional development excitement created by a
focused plan with everyone focused and able to select professional development that really meets
their needs. If we can really put the Teaching and Learning Cycle into place in our schools for the
adults as well as for the children, those groans about PD days will definitely diminish. Thanks for
sharing this snapshot, Chris! Any other examples out there?
One of the most difficult things about TLC is to take the words off the page and off the diagrams to
make them live in our work. The more concrete examples that we can share with one another, the
better.
We haven't talked much about using TLC to support coaches. How does that work? There are many
books about coaching around now, and most of the ones I have read don't even begin to address how
to support coaches’ growth. Let's hear some examples of that.
Geri
131
Mark
Geri,
This is an excellent question you ask: How to support coaches’ growth?
I believe it needs to be via a coach charting teachers’ ongoing learning. Using records of support,
charting growth through continual goal setting, and monitoring of goals (writing actions plans). Also, I
believe coaches need to have teachers reflect on their own teaching practices and on a monthly basis
chart progress in the record of support. The bulk of the work involved "ongoing, connected and
continuous" learning of adult/teachers using the TLC. It is in this process that teachers learn what will
be their next steps in planning, evaluating, assessing, and monitoring progress of student work.
Mark
132
Kathy
In my district I worked with Geri this year in Year One. We introduced the TLC to administration every
chance we got throughout the year as it relates to classrooms and to Professional Dev. My Principal
understood from the beginning but it took a bit longer for the Central Office until they backed into it
with pretty positive results.
This past spring our district underwent a Special Ed. Audit that determined that we, as a District, did
not have a consistent, well articulated and easily reported means to monitor student growth and
learning. As Prof. Dev. Coordinator I took a look at what assessments teachers were already using
across the district K-2, how this information was being used, recorded, and reported, (my assessment
sample and evaluation) and with Geri's guidance and encouragement pulled together a group of
teachers to see where we needed to go next in the short term and the long term (our planning). I
took this info to an admin meeting to share. I got pleasant nods and thank you’s all around the table,
then they went on to talk about this wonderful, prepackaged, one size fits all (or none) assessment
that they could adopt for free and it would solve all of our problems (according to a neighboring
district).
My mistake--I didn't assess, evaluate, or plan for the background and knowledge of the administration
when it came to reading process, instruction, or assessment. Back to the TLC for me.
The Central Office set up 2 inservice days for teachers to learn this "new" assessment model.
Fortunately, our ass't. superintendent sat in on both days. He was able to hear intelligent, well
articulated, thoughtful questions and concerns of the teachers in this district regarding the newly
proposed assessment, and teachers concerns that it did nothing to inform our instruction or further
student learning. Without realizing it he was taking his own assessment sample, then evaluating what
he heard about the new program and what teachers in this district were already doing based on my
earlier presentation.
In the mean time I continued to work with teachers to make our own curriculum based assessments
more accessible to those who didn't have the background and level of understanding we did. We also
listened to what it was that CO was looking for in an assessment--charts, evidence of growth, etc.
Teachers in the district filled out evaluation forms for the inservice days that I shared with the CO.
I went back to the CO armed with my new understanding of their point of entry, brief but informative
bits about the Reading Process, more specific, focused information about our present District
assessments, long and short term goals, and compared it all to the newly proposed program, (much
better planning on my part--thanks Geri) and that coupled with the assessment sample collected by
the ass't supt. at the inservice days brought us all to the same place. We will be using curriculumbased measures already in place with clarification and improvements, and future PD will be planned to
insure consistency across the district.
Long, long story short--by returning to the TLC again and again I was able to define and refine PD
needs in the district (with the help of my colleagues) and without even knowing it the CO participated
in the TLC and helped to further District learning and therefore student learning. There's a quote I
read on this listserve that I borrow and share...change is inevitable, growth is intentional (or
optional). By using the TLC we can be sure we are growing with intention.
Kathy
133
Lenny
Beautiful story, Kathy. Bravo to you and the work your teachers did! What a great example of how
the TLC can impact whatever we do. Isn't it interesting how easy it can be to sometimes "forget" to
think about what the TLC means across contexts (such as your example when you instinctively used
the TLC when working with your teachers but then how to be more intentional in thinking about the
TLC when using it with a different audience, such as the CO)?
Lenny
134
Kathy
Thanks, Lenny. I recently took a job in Prof. Dev. and it took a very smart lady to remind me that
learning is learning whether the students are children or adults!
Kathy
135
Richard
Kathy, This is fabulous. Your example shows how the structure of the Teaching and Learning Cycle
operates at many levels. You and your colleagues were able to build a solid case based on useful
forms of data to encourage change in the way the district chooses to operate. New learning occurred!
Everyone in the district benefits. Terrific. Richard
136
MaryAnn
Kathy your clear description of this experience really is helping me think about how intentional I need
to be in using the TLC for all learners. I bet if I look back on experiences that weren't successful, I
would discover that I hadn't gathered information about the learners to know their needs and
therefore couldn't support them.
I find that too often with adult learners, I've made assumptions and those assumptions have not been
correct! When that happens, I need to adjust as you did and figure out what kind support is truly
needed. Thanks for the wake-up call!!!
MaryAnn
137
Elisa
This is a very inspiring story. Knowledge, professionalism, and perseverance saved the day. It comes
as a breath of fresh air given all the negative stuff that's out there. It is commendable that admin
listened to teachers and understood what they were saying. It is particularly wonderful to hear of
teachers speaking their minds and hearts.
Thanks for sharing this experience.
Elisa
Elisa Waingort
Grade 2 Spanish Bilingual
Dalhousie Elementary
Calgary, Canada
138
Geri
Thank you, Kathy, for sharing with us a very concrete example of using the TLC at the district level. As
I read your description, Richard Allington's words boom around in my head. "Show me the data." This
example reveals how you continuously collected the data, analyzed it, and planned for your meeting.
It shows reflection and revision in action and most of all it shows professionalism, conviction, and
persistence. As we work more and more with this construct of TLC, it embeds itself into our very
being. It helps us all with taking time to think through all the "new things" that come down the pike
and helps us to integrate new thinking into what we believe. I see so many hasty decisions being
made in schools with little thought, research, or reflection. We seem to be like Starbucks, we all want
the latest quick fix! And here it is right under our nose. A process of thinking, reflecting, researching,
revising, questioning, planning, applying, learning.-The Teaching Learning Cycle.
So if we can take a lesson from Kathy's example, how do we react when the next best thing since
sliced bread hits our schools? Professional Learning Communities, New basal readers, The National
Reading Panel, Reading First, Writing First, Child Study, Units of Study, PA, DIBELS... and on and on it
goes. We all need a process to sort out and think about how these strategies fit with what we already
understand and what their purposes may be. We need a process and we need to be able to
understand it and use it consistently from the boardroom to the classroom. It all starts with Show me
the data.
Thanks Kathy for sharing your journey. In the beginning, this was a done deal. But with your
professionalism, patience, and knowledge, you were able to put a new spin on things. Way to Go!
Geri
139
Yvonne
Like all learners, teachers are different and so are their classroom teaching situations. When I did staff
development, there was a budget for floating subs. The subs were used to cover classrooms if the
teachers wanted me to do a demo lesson in a classroom, debrief, or meet with me as a group or oneon-one to share ideas. I rotate among 4 schools so each school knew what days I would be at their
school ahead of time. I was at each school no less than once per month. My purpose was to meet the
needs of the teachers, so the question I asked was: What do you want to learn and what do you and
the other teachers need? I found this approach to inservice education highly productive.
In the trunk of my car I had a library of materials - some were articles, professional books, as well as
some literature for students. I arranged to have the books on consignment. When a teacher purchased
a book(s) they wrote a check directly to the bookstore.
I believe teachers know what they need and if we empower them and not assume we know what they
need to learn, then we develop true learning communities and teachers along with their students
flourish and schools become places of joy.
Yvonne
140
Geri
Amen! I enjoyed your post so much, Yvonne. I too, have a trunk full of resources and heavy suitcases
when I travel on planes. I certainly do agree that teachers most often know what they need and know
how they want to learn and I so loved your last line "and teachers along with their students flourish
and schools become places of joy!" What a statement and what a vision. We all need to work to create
these kinds of environments for the schools in which we work. Thanks for sharing this.
Geri
141
Lenny
What is the focus of the TLC? How do you keep it focused? Even though the TLC is in a way about
our 'teaching', I think we have to remember to keep the focus on the 'learning'. Reminding ourselves
that the TLC isn't just to inform us of what to teach, how to teach, and to whom to teach. Teaching
is obviously important and necessary, but the TLC isn't about US, it is about the children. The reason
why the TLC is so important for us to use is because it helps us keep the children's learning the focus
for everything that we do. How do you keep 'learning' the central aspect of what happens in the
classroom? What distractions get in the way from focusing on the learning?
Anyone want to jump in and share?
Lenny
142
Cher
Lenny,
I'm glad you mentioned this. I was thinking about it last night, not really knowing how to put it into
words. I think sometimes we can use the TLC as this magnificent sword to show our prowess as the
professional educator. It can become another one of those things that we "do to the students". We
can't hold on to the TLC as our "secret weapon" or something we use to dazzle the kids or our
principals. It's a reflection tool. Maybe we need to use a metacognitive approach to the TLC.... like
using the TLC on the TLC that we use for instruction. Does that make sense? Learning should be
transparent in the classroom. It should also be collaborative. We're not working on lab rats... we are
working WITH human beings who have the ability to communicate! I think the biggest distraction is
ourselves. Maybe if we released ourselves from the "teacher" title (too often confused with "knower"),
and embraced "model learner" instead, the focus would be on learning and not on anyone one person
or role in particular.
Cher
143
Mark
Cher,
There are two things in your response I would like to address:
1. The TLC is a "reflection tool" - It is exactly that if used properly. Some constructs work well for
people who can organize their thoughts this way (have an organized/concrete sequential brain). Other
people find this construct difficult to follow and understand (have an organized/random abstract
brain). The random abstract brains have a hard time wrapping their brains around the TLC. It may be
too concrete for them to understand. The Random/Abstract's seem to be resistant to this construct
when in reality, it is foreign to them. Not put in such a way for their brain to understand.
2. You said "Learning should be transparent in the classroom. It should also be collaborative." - I
couldn't agree more. The question is, why is learning such a secret in our classrooms? Why are
teachers keeping what is to be learned a secret from their own students? I think we all know the
answer to this...poor planning, not connected to previous material and seldom with an end in mind.
Learning should also be collaborative. Why isn't learning always collaborative? If we keep things
secret, trick of the trade, what works and doesn't work to ourselves without sharing, it is not
collaborative. Time to share? Are we spending time to share "best practices" in teaching with our
colleagues? Do we value shared time to learn from each other? Are we sharing what is working and
not working with our students? Are we making time to collaborate in our classroom and with our
colleagues?
Mark
144
Lenny
Yes, Cher, it does make sense. What is so wonderful about the TLC is that it is intended to keep us
focused on why we're there - the kids. We're not just assessing to turn "stuff" into the school or to
have at parent-teacher conferences or to keep busy. We are there to support new learning, learning
that the learner finds valuable and needs. Thanks for sharing your passionate thoughts!
Lenny
145
Cher
See, that's it, Lenny. We have this obligation, this duty, to "do, check, and report", don't we? Isn't
that what happens to schools after the standardized test results come out and every building gets its
"grade"? They are published in newspapers, announcing to the community whether or not we did
what we were supposed to do. What a FABULOUS model for us! (ugh)
Cher
146
Barbara
Hi my name is Barbara and I'm a student at Wayne State University. From what I have learned Lenny
is that you must work with the students to continually revisit and revise their goals. I think that will
keep it focused. Another thing is to engage the students, throughout, in identifying and applying their
prior experience and knowledge to their learning. The most important thing Lenny is to make sure
throughout that the students clearly understand what they are learning and why.
Barbara
147
Jeff
I believe the biggest distraction from learning is TIME. Teachers feel such pressure to cover lots of
material in all content areas that time becomes more important than learning. Moving quickly through
the materials to cover everything for future tests. A book, Taking Time to Learn, is an excellent read
to help remember what is important in the classroom...learning.
Jeff
148
Lenny
Jeff,
I think you pointed out some important aspects about time that tend to distract us from the focus of
our teaching. The notion of "covering" and preparing for "future tests". Isn't it interesting how we
know that the best way of teaching is to teach/support children according to their needs, yet we let
predetermined curriculum, scope/sequences, and lesson time frames dictate what we teach? If our
teaching comes from that of the TLC, then should "covering" really be an issue? What is there to
cover other than the current needs of our students? Additionally, if our teaching is focused on our
children's current learning, then how significant can any "future test" be if it's not assessing what the
students are doing now? I think these notions of time are important because we all feel the effects of
them in the education field, but I wonder how we can not let them distract us from what we know we
need to be doing??
Lenny
149
MaryAnn
I think that "the future test" often leads us to focus on small pieces rather than the big ideas for
learning.
This leads me to questions about planning using our evaluated assessment. What do I need
to understand about planning so that I'm not focused on covering material, but rather planning for
deep learning? How do I use the information I've gathered to teach with depth and make links to
previous learning?
MaryAnn
150
Yvonne
Think BIG! Don't focus on the small. Have large picture goals.
Yvonne
151
Geri
I would add one more question to your list, MaryAnn, that you referred to earlier. What are my state
standards and how do they fit into my planning? As I am planning for any learning experience, what
are the questions I need to ask myself?
We were all taught to teach and to write focused objectives somewhere along our preservice
experiences. What was missing was the kids. What did they know already and what did they need to
know next and how do we find out what they know?
Geri
152
Kathy
MaryAnn,
One of the things I was just discussing with my principal was clarifying what children are expected to
learn in Math K-5. I think teachers are getting bogged down in planning because they see the
objectives embedded in a lesson full of components to get through-new series for our district. We
want to take the objectives/standards out of the lessons in the book and really look at how they are
connected, and what we really want children to learn. When we are clear on "what" and "why" we are
teaching and expecting children to learn then our teaching and assessment becomes clearer.
Kathy
153
MaryAnn
I definitely agree! I think what you are saying gets at the area of the TLC that Geri will ask us to
consider in our discussions--Planning.
In our eagerness to get going with our planning, often we focus early on what we are going to do (how
we are going to teach). If we give ourselves time to really consider what students need to be learning
and why, it will be much easier to plan for the teaching and assessment. Sometimes the supports
provided in textbooks provide shortcuts that short circuit the learning for students.
Thank you Kathy for sharing your journey.
MaryAnn
154
Pat
I teach 2nd grade in a gifted magnet, so some students are more sophisticated than others in their
thinking. When I plan I need to include opportunities for all learners, saying that I differentiate the
process. I have just started refining this, using the Learning Cycle, so perhaps some of you can help
me look for missed opportunities in my process. The classroom is student centered and portfolio
based. We start by talking about what goals are and how they have used them in the past. The
students usually say things like I had a goal to learn to ride a bike or skate. We then talk about the
process--what did you do to reach that goal…identified the goal…learned what the steps were to reach
it…and then practiced the steps. I have them write a paper about how they learned to do something,
swim, ride a bike, whatever. We use the writing process to do this. We then share the process of
reaching the goal. We then talk as scholars about how they need to set goals for the year. They chose
three goals for each subject--reading, writing, and oral language. They can also set goals for math.
This is brainstorming. Each child has a list of district standards written in kid friendly language. We
read this list and they look for things on the list they want to do. They rewrite their goals for the first
quarter, I tell them that they will be in charge of student centered conferences in 6 weeks and they
will share the goals, work portfolios, and their progress with their parents. We take several
assessment pieces and look at them--oral reading, writing with rubric, math readiness test. After I
review these individually, they rewrite goals. They then send a letter to their parents asking for help
on the goals with a deadline for reevaluation (conference). I am now going to add information from
what Kevin shared yesterday. I am so excited especially adding the evaluation questions. The students
keep the standards in their portfolio folder. Plus I have the standards posted all around the room and
at learning centers. When they don’t know what they need to practice, I need to show them how to
practice. This connection needs work in my classroom.
Pat K
155
Geri
Thanks for your description, Patricia. I can see the Teaching and Learning Cycle in your process here. I
hear and see several ways that you support students to gather assessment data and to analyze it. As
we think deeper about the planning process in the teaching and learning cycle, how does this work for
you? Once you and students have analyzed the data, what is your role as the teacher to provide
specific learning opportunities for students coming off the assessment? It sounds like you give the
students wonderful opportunities for taking responsibility for their learning and set the expectations
high. What do you see as your role in grouping students and planning specifically for their learning?
What do all of them need? What do individuals need? What are the resources needed to reach the
objectives? I see your focus centered on the learning of the students, as Lenny pointed out.
Geri
156
Geri
We have had some wonderful conversations these past two days on the assessment and evaluation
portion of the Teaching and Learning Cycle. Let's take some time to share some scenarios of what the
planning really looks and sounds like as we have all of this information. How do we manage our own
time and how do we manage the time of our students? What does it look like in a classroom where
this kind of preparation is in place? Do you have to be Superwoman to do it? What are some
guidelines that support our thinking as we plan in a more intentional way? Thank you, MaryAnn for
raising this question earlier in the day.
Geri
157
Nancy
“Do you have to be Superwoman to do it?”
Yes. And unfortunately, the children have to be Superchildren. There is little time for childhood
anymore.
How do we change that?
Nancy
158
Geri
I always love your questions and challenges, Nancy.
Unfortunately, we seem to be living in a runaway culture, where MORE is better. I seldom see children
playing outside anymore on my way home from work. The doors are closed. The children are stuck
inside with some new gadget or other. The memories of my own childhood still stick with me after
these many years. I came home from school and changed from my school clothes into my play
clothes... and went outside every day to skate on the new puddle of ice, to swing from the maple tree
and to slide down hill on a piece of cardboard. Laughter, chiding, competing with my sisters, falling
down, and trudging up the hill again. Those are the things our children are missing.
We do each have the power to begin to change that. Every afternoon this week, I have visited my
neighbor's daycare. We play Go Fish and Old Maid and we slide down a piece of plastic covered with
water and run under the sprinkler. Every day I get another invitation with a knock on my door. "Can
you come up and play this afternoon?" I believe that more than ever before our children are asking to
be seen and heard!
ASCD is working hard to help us reconnect with the appropriate practices with a focus on the whole
child.
Geri
159
Deb
I agree the 'more is better' is part of life today...but there is also the issue of children's safety,.... and
both parents having to work,... and not having money for both play clothes and school clothes...
and.... and... and...
That being said... children have always asked to be seen and heard... and so have adults (not sure
why I put that there but it feels important). It isn't just now that kids have wanted this - it is a
humankind of thing. There are many, many more families with only children... no siblings to play
with, often no one close enough to play with (rural areas), or too many people that are not to be
played with (urban areas...rural, too). I was an only child raised in an era of multiple siblings as the
norm. I'm beginning to think the tide is turning toward an era of only children. Only children are
often not allowed to play outside by themselves - safety issues. What is left is an era of TV,
computers, etc. and books. Normally something visual to take away the loneliness that can creep in.
Sorry...just thinking and remembering
Deb
160
Deb
We change that by taking a stand for our children – our own children and those in all of our
classrooms. By giving them time to explore life in and out of the classroom. By creating safe havens
as best we can so that they feel they can take risks. We change all this by taking back our classrooms
and the White House (although from what I can see neither candidate is in favor of revamping
education as it is practiced today). We band together as professionals and take our stance public. We
should never do it as a single teacher...ask Connie Heerman about her single stance (suspended for 2
years because she didn't immediately cease and desist teaching the Freedom Writers Diary upon
receiving notice from the school board that she couldn't teach it after she had already started to have
kids read it. Her reasons for not stopping immediately? The kids were enthusiastically reading the
book...they were engaged and excited about learning. #$%!&
Debbie
161
Yesterday Geri asked these questions:
How do we manage our own time and how do we manage the time of our students?
What does it look like in a classroom where this kind of preparation is in place?
Do you have to be Superwoman to do it?
What are some guidelines that support our thinking as we plan in a more intentional way?
MaryAnn
As I've been thinking about my response, I realized that since I've been supported in understanding
and using the Teaching Learning Cycle I've experience two major paradigm shifts.
The first came early on. I think my understandings of learning and teaching early in my career would
have looked my like a flow chart--plan, teach, assess. When I began learning about the TLC,
I started to use assessment tools that truly informed my instruction and I began to evaluate that
assessment to determine focused learning steps. This had a huge impact on my teaching.
But something continued to be missing. I realize now it was that I needed to be more intentional in
my planning. To be more intentional I needed to understand long-term planning and medium-term
planning as well as the day-to-day and weekly planning (the short-term planning I was currently
doing). Another major paradigm shift was occurring for me as I worked to understand these different
levels of planning.
What I now understand is that I need a road map that will give an overall picture of the year, a
flexible scope and sequence for my grade level. I also need to see what students have been learning
before my grade level and will be expected to learn after. My state and district curriculum help me
with that picture. Some other resources that help me are Margaret Mooney's Characteristics of
Learners (this is a crucial resource for me) and the stages of literacy development in Reading for Life.
The reading and writing processes are embedded within these resources.
To be able to effectively collect assessment and evaluate it, I need the big picture of learning. I will
consider where I need to do summative assessment to determine the progress that many students are
making across the year as well as the on-going formative assessment that goes on from day to day.
With a long-term plan in mind, I can work with my team and develop the medium-term plans that
last for a few weeks. Based on "learning information" (see Marilyn's email from yesterday) we have
on our students, we can decide which key curriculum learning objective/s will be our target. We look
at ourselves as readers and writers/literacy users and ask what does this objective really mean. We
break the learning target down by asking ourselves what does a reader or writer actually do to be to
(ex.) predict, self-monitor, inference, summarize, retell, etc.). This analysis then becomes the success
criteria (several key behaviors). We put the learning target and success criteria into kid-friendly
language so our students will understand. The success criteria helps the teacher evaluate her
assessments and it helps students self-evaluate and set goals for their learning. We ask ourselves
what will be our summative assessment at the end of 2-4 weeks of instruction and what on-going
formative assessment will we use during the unit to adjust our instruction based on student needs.
We gather resources and consider how we'll group our students. We will have lots of
authentic reading and writing going on across all content areas. We will be very intentional and
explicit with our students about what they are learning that will help them become better readers and
writers. The students will join in the process, getting to know themselves as learners and planning for
their own next learning steps.
The short term planning--the week and day-to-day plans are much easier now. We know the big
focus for learning and so do our students. We know we'll be making adjustments along the way based
on what we see as our students needs.
I hope the explanation of this planning doesn't make it sound like you have to be
superwoman/superman!!! The more I've worked with teachers to understand long-term and mediumterm planning as well as short-term planning the easier they say planning becomes for them. It helps
us look for the big ideas of learning and not get so caught up in the small objectives.
MaryAnn
162
How do we manage our own time and how do we manage the time of our students?
Lenny
What does it look like in a classroom where this kind of preparation is in place?
Do you have to be Superwoman to do it?
What are some guidelines that support our thinking as we plan in a more intentional way?
Geri,
Thanks for raising these questions. My first initial reaction is the easy answer of planning according to
what the students' need (something I know we all would say), but then that gets complicated quite
quickly because we can't really do that unless we have the understandings necessary to know how to
"interpret" what it is that kids are doing and what makes sense for them to think about next.
I imagine there have been many times when I selected objectives, resources, kinds of instruction, and
groupings based upon what I "thought" they needed, when in fact, I may not have been "right"
because I did not have the understandings in place about what it is they were really doing (be it in
writing, math, reading, etc.). It reminds me how important it is that we have strong theoretical
understandings about the writing process, reading process, spelling process (and others) in order to
make the planning most beneficial. Without these, we can still plan objectives and find resources
based upon our evaluation of students' work, but our evaluation may not be as "accurate" as it could
be.
Anyone else share this thought?
Lenny
163
Kevin
In thinking about the planning component of the Teaching and Learning Cycle, I have come to
understand that, for me, there is a bullet missing. When planning I consider the objective, the
grouping, the resource, and the approach. In addition, I think it is crucial to also plan for the
assessment. I mention this not to pull us off the discussion of planning, but to include how important
it is to plan for the type of assessment (tool, approach) I am going to use to know my how my
students are progressing toward meeting the planned objective. Does anyone else see this as a vital
part of the planning process? Thoughts?
Kevin
164
Lenny
This is a great point, Kevin: "I think it is crucial to also plan for the assessment." The importance of
thinking ahead and asking, "Where will I expect to see the student demonstrate__________ again?
When will I assess it? What should I expect to see? What will be the evidence to show the students'
progress in learning _________?" Ah - the complexity of not only teaching, but also planning!!!
Lenny
165
Malak
Yes Lenny, I totally agree with your approach regarding planning and assessing our students to ensure
they comprehend the material that was presented. I often find myself doing the same thing and
thinking ahead or asking questions about what I should expect from my students and whether I have
done a well enough job in teaching them so that I can properly assess them and be fair to them.
Planning is a crucial factor when teaching and assessing and should be well thought out and prepared
to ensure our students' comprehension.
Malak
166
Lenny
When assessing the learning that has occurred from a particular lesson or activity (to get a sense of
how that particular lesson helped), it seems that an informal assessment can easily give some quick
information that will help you evaluate the learning. For example, if I created a lesson to support a
group of students on learning how to gather information about a book by using the table of contents,
then just through my questioning and observations of how they interacted with the text and what they
talk about will most likely give me enough feedback to know whether or not I needed to change the
objective, shift my support, select a different resource, etc. A lesson such as this most likely will not
require that I do a "formal" assessment on their use of the table of contents. Perhaps there might be
a specific example you are thinking about? Do you have any hunches about using formal and informal
forms of assessments? Thanks for bringing this up!!
Lenny
167
Geri
Hi Kevin,
I like your questions and thoughts about planning to gather assessment. It's like the writing process:
it’s recursive or what goes around, comes around. If I really try to put this concept into place, then I
do have to include some way of gathering assessment for results. It complicates the "I teach,
therefore, they learn" theory, now doesn't it? If we don't build in some way of gathering assessment,
then how do we know how to plan for learning next?
When you are talking about approach, resource, etc., can you give us some examples of what your
thinking or actions might look like as you go through this process?
Geri
168
Kevin
Here goes . . .
In terms of planning for assessment, I think about what and how (why is in there as well) I am going
to assess. Questions I ask myself: What is it I want to see learners (kids and adults) demonstrate?
How do I gather assessment information to show me they have demonstrated that? Is it through
observation - formal or informal? Is it through some type of performance where a product is possible
end result?
So my plan for assessment might be to collect monitoring notes on specific learners. It might be a
formal conference with a learner during workshop. It might be an expectation that a learner will
submit a product, either formative or summative. It might also be a self-reflection, an exit card, a
student written learning plan. The possibilities seem endless. The point is to think about the
objective(s), my learners, and matching the best (most efficient, most effective, etc.) assessment
approach to that. That way I know what I am looking for and how I am going to actually see it.
This then will pull me right back into the Teaching and Learning Cycle to think about how the teaching
- the amount of support needed for learning - will occur. Then back to collecting assessment,
evaluating them to then plan for instruction.
At least that is how I understand the planning for assessment piece now.
Kevin
169
Cher
Here are some standard things that I tend to do/ask myself on a regular basis when planning: - Look
at feedback from the students. Many times I would use "exit cards", which is a quick way to get
feedback before my students are out the door. Obviously, I should have student work and other
observational data besides this.
- Where are my students on the "To-With-By" continuum.
- What is the objective? What am I looking for the students to be able to do?
What do they need to know/understand in order to do X?
- What is the proper grouping and method of instruction for this to occur?
- What will be the indicators of success?
- How will I articulate the objective for the students?
- Is what we are doing RELEVANT?
Cher
170
Lenny
Cher - I love that you emphasized the word, RELEVANT. =) It's interesting to think about what might
happen in the classroom, which may not be relevant to the specific learners in our room.
Lenny
171
Geri
Beth wrote:
Up until March, this boy wrote stories like this: “Yjr noh npu ermy yp yjr jpidr.”
He would read back what he’d written, and I’d say, “Ah ha. Ah ha.” We worked on words and sounds,
but he didn’t seem to connect either with writing. He could word call 60 flash cards, but he couldn’t
connect those words with meaning. He kept “writing,” though, and illustrating. I started taking
dictation, and writing cards for him to match back to his sentences. He could match, but he still
couldn’t read, and his writing resembled English, but wasn’t. And then, one day – all of a sudden – he
could read. Just like that!!! He went from being an A reader to an E overnight. He was a G a week
ago, and now he’s reading H books.
Great story, Beth. Thanks for sharing this snapshot from the classroom with us. Here's a question for
us all to mull through: How do we explicitly use this example as an assessment sample? What does
this student know and understand about writing? What understanding is important for him to develop
next? What experiences do I plan as a teacher for his next learning as a reader and as a writer? How
do I use what he knows about writing to transfer into his knowledge about reading?
Let's go at it!
Geri
172
Marilyn
Hi Geri and others,
My apologies for not getting back sooner. I'm caring for elderly parents right now, so that is my
priority but I did have something to say about the conversation around publishing. In my own
personal belief system, publishing is a tool for instruction (just like guided and shared reading and
other instructional approaches in any content area). Instruction can be highly effective, moderately
effective, or even (unfortunately) debilitating to kids based on the understanding of the teacher. We've
heard both kinds of stories on the listserve this week - Beth's experience shows evidence of a teacher
who understands her learner well enough to make quality decisions about instruction. The stories
about the professor grading on the basis of APA or the child in tears are evidence of teachers who do
not have the understanding to deliver the instruction that will support the learner.
So bottom line, I don't think the argument is about publishing at all because publishing is not about
changing a student's story or only teaching sound to letter. Publishing is about high quality instruction
- knowing the student and the student's writing (thus knowing their interests, skills, and desires) and
making the proper instructional decisions to move their learning forward.
Marilyn
173
Richard
Hello folks,
We have just about eight hours left to the discussion with Geri Williams, MaryAnn Whitfield, Lenny
Sanchez, and Kevin Shrum focused on The Teaching and Learning Cycle. This conversation is
scheduled to end at 8:00 EDT.
As with all of our conversations there is room to explore any aspect of the topic that interests you.
Questions on the table at the moment are related to planning. Here is a question regarding grouping.
I wonder how you decide whether your group for instruction will be the whole class, a small group, or
one-on-one? And if it is a small group, what do you use to decide on who will be part of the group?
We welcome your insights and input.
Richard
174
Kelly
Hello, my name is Kelly George and I am a student at Wayne State University in Nancy Creech
Reading Literacy class. I am a senior majoring in special education. I've been reading a lot of the
posting and I thought this would be a great spot for me to jump in with my question. I've always
thought it would be more effective to group students with different needs so that students could better
learn from each other (cooperative learning). When planning instruction what is the best way to decide
how students will be grouped? Why is it that teachers often group students with similar needs?
Kelly
175
Kevin
Hi Kelly.
Excellent questions. I am a firm believer that my planned objective for teaching and learning is what
dictates the grouping. Knowing my objective will support me in deciding the best grouping for my
learners to support them in reaching the objective. Sometimes that grouping may be like needs.
Sometimes that grouping may be based on a variety of needs.
In my thinking, Objective is listed first under planning on the Teaching and Learning Cycle for a
reason. Without planning the objectives, I am pretty much drifting along hoping that teaching and
learning will occur. Once the objective is there I can begin thinking and planning for all of the other
pieces.
Kevin
176
Deb
Great questions, Kelly. I do what Kevin says but I also take into consideration the needs of the child in
areas besides content - in my eyes the help they need in content is not primary to the social needs of
the children. When forming groups, all children need to have leadership roles and opportunities to
lead - especially those who have been labeled (intentionally or otherwise) as deficient in some way.
So while mini-lessons (small group and/or individual lessons) are important if a particular child has
been singled out for most of the mini-lessons then it is time to decide if this child needs some time to
work with the language, content, ideas, etc. a while longer before joining another mini-lesson group.
If the groupings are for collaborative work (and I don't promote cooperative work rather I promote
collaboration) then self-selection and/or opportunities for leadership comes to mind. Equal 'skilled'
children are ok. So are multiple levels of 'skilled' children (boy I hate the use of 'skilled' here - every
child is skilled). So are duos and trios. I believe that kids are what dictate the grouping and that my
'objectives' are goals that can be surpassed. I tend to use the word goals more than objectives.
From my perspective it becomes easier for teachers to evaluate student performance if all the kids in
the group are at "the same level" of proficiency and no one student takes over the group... this also
means that the shy, less confident students are silenced (which may happen anyway). Teachers, the
ones I've worked with and unfortunately myself as well, tend to do things that provide easier way to
evaluate. We've been talking assessment here (progress over a long time rather than at the point in
time of the test) rather than evaluation. Evaluation is placing the A, B, C, D, F next to the
outcome/performance part of teaching and learning.
Knowing how hard it has been with a friend of mine's pretty severely autistic son, it really important to
know that all rules and such about evaluation and how we measure success should be thrown out the
window. With you working in special education it is important to remember that these children have
been labeled as deficient in some way their entire lives by others or they would not be in 'special
needs' classes.
Also know that there are many ways to construct lesson plans. The TLC way is one way and each
teacher does things... or should be free to do things... different from another teacher.
I'm so glad you spoke up!
Deb
177
Maureen
Hi. While we're on the topic of groupings, and objectives -- I'm sure (and I know you'll correct me
here) that you might want to have different sets of objectives -- one for the full class and others for
your small groups particularly as you examine the data and set it in context. My question is how do
you know that you are selecting an objective at the correct level of difficulty for your full class or
separately for your small group?
Maureen Robins
Assistant Principal, NYC
178
Danielle
Hello my name is Danielle James, a student at Wayne State University. In response to the discussion
topic, I think the size of the group depends on the instruction being taught. Making the decision of
who to group together in a whole class setting, should be as simple as counting students off, for
example, groups of four. This way you don't have the usual cliques that form together and you can
utilize the different learning styles.
Danielle
179
Sherri
I agree with Danielle on class groupings and subject taught or cooperative grouping also.
Sherri
180
Maureen
That may get you started! But you don't mention how you could use your data (or assessment) or
learning goals from your data to make informed decisions about your groupings!
Maureen Robins
Assistant Principal, NYC
181
Lenny
Whatever it is that you are using for your assessment should hopefully give some guidance for the
grouping. For example, in talking with some students while walking around the room, I may notice
that some kids continue to draft stories without evidence of really thinking about what they want to go
into their story first (lack of planning). I decide to take some student writing home with me to look at
as well and I notice the same thing. I realize that a fair number of children could use some support
in understanding what it is that writers do before "starting" a story. Because this understanding is so
important, I decide to let this become my whole class "objective". It also might be important that I
follow up with this conversation in some small groups as well so that I can give even more support to
specific students. So in this example (which I know is very basic) the same objective actually might
guide both whole group and small group instruction. I might notice though that there are particular
kinds of things that might shift the small group conversation to slightly different topics (organization,
building central ideas, description, characterization, etc.) depending on what it is that different
students need to think more deeply in their "lack" of planning. So I guess what I am trying to
illustrate is that objectives may be the same or different for whole class and small group discussions.
It depends on the children's response to what we're doing, what is most important (or relevant) at the
time, and the students' writing history (and future, if I may add).
Another aspect to consider though in thinking about whether or not the objective is "at the correct
level" is that I may decide that the objective is "correct" but my level of support (modeling, shared,
guided) needs to shift. Perhaps students are struggling with aspects of planning (not because the
objective is wrong) but because my level of support is wrong. I'm doing too much modeling and not
enough guided support, or perhaps I'm not modeling enough. Again, it's hard to say what "the
correct level of difficulty" is because when new learning is occurring, struggle might be a part of it, and
the struggle might be there for a while. What might be some other examples or ideas to think about
when determining the "correct" objective and level of support? How do you know that your decisions
are "RIGHT" when selecting objectives and support?
Lenny
182
Maureen
Thanks! What you have articulated for me is the need to clarify your objectives in terms of direct
teaching and "support" teaching. Excellent. Because what you have done for me -- and all those who
are reading this -- is put "differentiation" into context by explaining "objective" and "level of support"
to achieve that objective.
Thank you!
Maureen
183
Tammy
For me, my objectives are individually determined by my assessment samples and are intended to
move the learner a baby step (thank you Marilyn, Katie, and Dianne) forward on a developmental
continuum of literacy. The continuum provides the goal and functions like standards - with the
outcome intended to be high and the same for each child.....but the means to the intended outcomes
vary widely and TLC supports these varied paths. Often, you can find patterns in the class that
provide grouping opportunities for groups that vanish the next day or week.
I love what Debbie said about grouping. I do very purposeful grouping that is nearly always
heterogeneous vs homogenous in nature for the powerful language support. I work with American
Indian LEP students K-12, and language diversity is a huge asset to meet their needs. One of my
current pet peeves are the "Walk to Read" leveled grouping strategies being currently promoted
extensively by RTI. I have been watching kids in neighboring schools employ this grouping strategy
when I monitor my pre-service teachers, and every child not in the highest groups, sees him or her
self as a failed reader. They believe what our actions as adults tell them - that they read poorly or
can't read, and behold, they do. To become readers you need to believe you are capable, trust your
hunches, take risks etc... So ... to respond to Kelly also, this is my negative example and nothing like
what Kevin articulated so powerfully.
Tammy
184
MaryAnn
When I'm considering the objectives for my groups many times I'm taking the broader objective for
the whole group and making it more specific for the small group. For example, in writing the whole
class might be learning about developing our ideas with descriptive language. If I see some children
are struggling with this, I might pull them with a few children who are making stronger attempts. We
could read a bit together from children's literature or from another student's writing that serves as a
good model. We'd analyze how the author used descriptive language. Then while we're together the
children would go into their own writing to decide where they could add descriptive writing or continue
their writing, working to add in some descriptive detail. They would have each other’s support.
Another example could be in math...I might have the students working on an activity in cooperative
groups. As they work, I gather information that helps me determine who still needs a little help. I
could then pull those children as the others work on an application level of the learning objective.
The assessment really helps me understand how I need to focus the objective at the level of difficulty
needed for the whole class and for small groups. Addressing the question of how I will support
(model/demonstrate, guide, stand back and observe) the learning also helps me differentiate the
objective.
You pose an important question, Maureen. I look forward to hearing other responses.
MaryAnn
185
Richard
In the figure for The Teaching and Learning Cycle, (
http://www.rcowen.com/teachingAndLearningCycle.htm ) the bullet under TEACHING is

Amount of support needed for new learning to occur
Before we run out of time I would love to hear some conversation about the meaning in that
statement. How do we interpret that definition? How do we put it into practice? How do we judge
whether it is the right amount of support? What do we do if it isn't?
Any comments?
Richard
186
Rachelle
This is a great point to discuss because often times I've chosen an approach (e.g., guided, shared,
independent) that later proves to be the "incorrect" choice. I've determined a need to work on
checking for meaning, and I've chosen a text that seems to be at the instructional level, but once I get
into the teaching situation, I find that the book is too difficult. I've noticed the difficulty because as I
closely observe my students reading, I'm noticing slow, labored reading, numerous puzzled looks,
wandering eyes, etc. Now, I must shift my plan/teaching "on the fly" and provide more voice support
from me (a "shared" approach) in order to allow students to access the text and the learning.
This also happens to me the other way, where I've chosen a book that I thought would contain a
little challenge to provide powerful learning, but it's proven to be too easy based on the student
responses that I'm closely observing. There's no challenge. I didn't have an opportunity for my
teaching point.
This flexibility is critical and part of responsive teaching. It's assessment for learning in my view moment-by-moment observation. All of this was a shift for me. Before Marilyn, Jan, Angel, etc., I
was "stuck" in an approach. Glued to "guided reading." I thought of Shared Reading and Guided
Reading more as activities rather than varying levels of support for teaching.
Rachelle Amo
187
Lenny
What an insightful comment you shared, Rachelle: "I thought of Shared Reading and Guided Reading
more as activities rather than varying levels of support for teaching." It seems that these levels of
support toward teaching have been commercialized in the way you articulated - as activities - rather
than instructional approaches. There are so many teacher books filled with what you can do for
"Guided Reading" and "Shared Reading" time that the teaching component has completely been
missed. Thanks for pointing that out!!
Lenny
188
Geri
Good evening all,
These three days have zipped right by and the conversation has been uplifting, thought provoking,
and sometimes challenging. Our mentor, Jan Duncan, reminded us so many times that without
disequilibrium, no new learning would occur. As all of us know who knew and worked with Jan, she
was a master at raising the expectations and unsettling us from our comfort zones. I hope this
conversation focusing on the teaching and learning cycle has been a confirmation of your work as
educators and perhaps raised some questions to wrestle with as you continue on your own journey of
learning. Thanks to all who participated and raised questions for us to explore. Thank you, too, for
your specific examples to support the tie between theory and practice.
I hope we will all continue to think about this construct in our everyday work, both as learners and as
we work with other learners. It is a powerful concept and I believe that we truly can make reforms in
schools if we can grasp the understanding and application of these ideas. We don't have to invent new
programs with new names. This is the basic concept underneath what we currently call RTI,
differentiated instruction, professional learning communities, child study groups...
If we all took away one idea to explore in our thinking or one thing to try out in our educational
setting, then our time was well spent. I know we will all continue to think of these conversations in
days to come. So, whatever work we do in the name of school reform: college level, classroom level,
district level, coaching, school level--let this concept of assessment, evaluation, planning for learning
and teaching, and assessment...guide your path. It won't let you down and as many of our colleagues
have shared with us, will support educational change.
Thanks again for sharing these three days with us and thanks to my colleagues, MaryAnn, Lenny and
Kevin. It was great to be together, if only from afar!
Geri
189
Lenny
Yes, Geri, I agree. These past few days have been uplifting, thought provoking, and sometimes
challenging. It has been so wonderful to hear about the amazing work that teachers, administrators,
and coaches are doing across the country and the commonalities we share in our struggles and
successes. Thank you for being willing to ask the questions you've been wondering and sharing stories
about the experiences you have everyday. I hope that you continue to find this listserve as a
collegial place to challenge your thinking and challenge one another's thinking. It certainly has been
inspiring for me to participate in this short discussion we have had. Also, thank you Richard
for drawing our attention back to something that underlies all that we do. Thank you for reminding us
how critical the TLC is in our work. It has been such a pleasure to participate in this discussion.
Thank you too to Geri, MaryAnn, and Kevin. It has been fun to work as a team! I wish everyone
many "stirrings" in our comfort zones as we continue to stretch and grow in our understandings!
Looking forward to future dialogues.
Lenny
190
Kevin
Once more, Hello everyone.
The last three days of discussion, reflection, questioning, and thinking have been, to say the least,
stimulating. It is always refreshing and rewarding to enter into a dialogue with professionals around
something so important - teaching and learning. The discussion for me has sparked immense thinking
and planning.
This three day dialogue could not have been more timely. I am walking back into the classroom to
teach students once again. The last three years I have been working with adults - coaches,
administrators, mentors, new teachers, leadership teams. It is with excitement, a good pile of
nervous energy, and some anxiety that I take from this conversation the thinking to help ease that
transition.
Thank you to all of you for your questions and application of good sound teaching and learning
theory. Students and adults are lucky to have you working with them.
The Teaching and Learning Cycle is a pretty amazing little construct. Its impact is huge. Though this
formal dialogue comes to a close, it is important to keep the thinking and talking going informally at
schools, in staff rooms, in classrooms, over email, at the coffee shop - you name it. It has been a
pleasure thinking with all of you. Thanks to Richard for organizing and to Geri, MaryAnn, and Lenny
for their knowledge and experience.
Take care and best wishes.
Kevin
191
MaryAnn
This has been an exciting and challenging three days! I want to thank Richard for initiating this
professional development opportunity. Heartfelt thanks to Geri, Kevin, and Lenny for their insights
and challenging questions. Thank you to all of you on the listserve who participated in the dialogue
sharing your beliefs, understandings, questions, and descriptions of your classrooms.
As Geri said we can truly make reforms in our schools if we understand and apply the concept of the
teaching and learning cycle. That means we must continue our learning as we have the past three
days and never be satisfied with our current understandings. We must embrace the feelings of
discomfort when we hear ideas from different perspectives. We can use these opportunities to
articulate new questions, explore research, and perform action research in our classrooms and with
our colleagues. I know that we are taking away learning that will be applied in the work we do with
students and adults.
Thank you again!
MaryAnn
193
Richard
Good evening Friends,
This brings to a close the scheduled TLN discussion focused on The Teaching and Learning Cycle. We
want to thank you all for your presence, your involvement, and your participation. It has been a
terrific three days. Good ideas, lots of good thinking, much to consider.
My thanks to our guests for their generous sharing of time, knowledge, and experience: Geri Williams
(co-author of several student writing journals ), MaryAnn Whitfield (chapter contributor to Caught in
the Spell of Writing and Reading edited by Margaret Mooney and Terry Young), Lenny Sanchez, and
Kevin Shrum. Their energy and spirit and flexibility gave this discussion a particularly invigorating
quality.
Be looking for an announcement that the transcript is posted at the website. It will take about two
weeks. Please use it. Take the discussion into your school and share it with colleagues. This
transcript can prompt your thinking and discussion. It is a valuable tool for professional development,
and it is yours for the taking.
If your school or district is interested in support in developing understandings and implementing The
Teaching and Learning Cycle, please contact me directly at richardowen@rcowen.com.
Stay with us. We will be announcing another conversation soon. If you must leave, please follow the
unsubscribe directions at the bottom of the page or write to me at the email address above.
Thank you all. Have a great summer.
Richard
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