Deaf Connections JDSG Involvement Event
Justice Disability Steering Group
Deaf Connections Involvement Event
Friday 9th October 2009
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Deaf Connections JDSG Involvement Event
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Deaf Connections JDSG Involvement Event
Contents
Topic
Page
1. Background to the event
5
2. Results of discussions
7
2.1. Communication and attitudinal Barriers
7
2.2. Information Barriers
14
3. Summary of ideas for action
17
4. Continuing involvement
19
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Deaf Connections JDSG Involvement Event
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Deaf Connections JDSG Involvement Event
1. Background to the event
The Justice Disability Steering Group (JDSG) was set up in 2007 by the
organisations representing the justice sector in Scotland. It is comprised of the
Scottish Government, the Association of Chief Police Officers in Scotland, the Crown
Office and Procurator Fiscal Service, the Scottish Court Service, the Law Society of
Scotland, the Scottish Legal Aid Board and the Scottish Prison Service.
The aim of the JDSG is to develop ways in which disabled people can be involved in
helping to improve access to services across the justice system in Scotland and to
draw on their skills and experience to improve the Scottish justice sector for all. The
JDSG contracted Capability Scotland to manage a project of involvement events to
find out from disabled people the barriers they encounter in accessing justice.
Capability organised seven public involvement events across Scotland in Autumn
2009 in partnership with other disability and race organisations.
On Friday 9th October 2009 the Deaf Connections hosted an involvement event in
partnership with Capability. Deaf Connections is the oldest charity in Scotland
representing adult Deaf people and the leading voluntary organisation delivering
specialist services to the Deaf and hard-of-hearing community in the West of
Scotland. Deaf Connections are committed to enabling Deaf people to participate
fully in the community whilst making equality and fairness a normal feature of their
everyday lives.
This event took place at Deaf Connections on Norfolk St in Glasgow. The event was
attended by 45 Deaf and hard-of-hearing people.
Experience of the justice system within the group was wide ranging and included
being a witness in a criminal case, being a witness in civil case, being cautioned by
the Police, being arrested, being asked to go for Jury Duty, attending a benefits
tribunal to appeal a DLA award and reporting a crime.
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Deaf Connections JDSG Involvement Event
2. Results of the discussions
The involvement day was designed around the main three barriers that the Deaf
community face when interacting with the hearing community:

Communication and attitudinal Barriers

Information Barriers
Scenarios were used for each area in the morning session and adapted so as to
capture matters of importance to Deaf people in order to prompt discussion and
bring the issues to life. The scenarios were discussed by two workshops of BSL
users each supported by a BSL interpreter and 1 smaller workshop of hard-ofhearing people who spoke English and were supported by an electronic note-taker.
In the afternoon session participants gathered in one large group supported by the
whole interpretation team, people came to the front to describe their experiences of
accessing justice and questions were also asked from the audience. The key areas
of concern and ideas for action are detailed below.
2.1. Communication and attitudinal Barriers
A lack of communication support, BSL interpreters for BSL users and notetakers for Deaf and hard-of-hearing English speakers, is the main barrier
experienced by the Deaf community in terms of accessing Justice
BSL users described in detail the numerous barriers they have faced communicating
with the Police. ‘I was arrested for being violent, I think the police thought I was
drunk, but I was just signing to my friend in the pub, I had been wrongfully accused
and still they didn’t get an interpreter, no-one told my family what was happening or
even when the charges had been dropped’. One participant described being
assaulted by a Police Officer who broke his arm whilst trying to restrain him from
signing. The wider group suggested that ‘abuse of Deaf people was easy to get
away with’.
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Deaf Connections JDSG Involvement Event
A number of participants who were BSL users described having mistrust of the
Police after poor experiences of reporting a crime, being cautioned or being arrested.
One participant described being put in the cells over the weekend for an assault that
he didn’t commit, no interpreter was provided and he didn’t know what was
happening. He kept trying to tell officers that he was Deaf but they ignored this.
‘They had no idea how their body language stopped me from being able to
understand them’. One participant explained that the police have worked hard to
provide translation services to hearing refugees and asylum seekers who do not
speak English at all, or speak English as an additional language, and that this was a
really positive development ‘why can’t the same work be put in to assisting BSL
users. As an ethic minority we should also benefit.’
A number of Deaf people who communicate with BSL described being stopped by
the Police for speeding but then not being charged by Police once officers
discovered they were Deaf. ‘I went through a red light. The police stopped me. I
opened the window. The Police Officer shouted. I said I was Deaf. They kept talking
at me. They had a discussion and didn't believe I was Deaf. I said to them to write it
down and I wrote stuff down. They said: you were going too fast. They started
laughing. They asked my name. I live in King's Park I said. I waited for half an hour.
They checked through their screens. Yes I am Deaf I said: can you see that? Why
were you speaking? I wanted it written down. Then they let me go. It wasted half an
hour of their time. I don't know why they were laughing. They just let me go. I wanted
to know what they were laughing about. I felt it was discrimination. They could have
been saying anything and laughing at me. That has happened on many occasions;
they just let you go.’ Another participant had a similar experience. ‘There was a filter
lane. It went to ‘go’ so I went. I said I am Deaf. You went through a red light, they
said. Are you blind too, they said. That was very ‘personal’, unpleasant and impolite.
Usually I am very polite but with that attitude I ended up emulating that bad attitude
and mistrusting the police.’
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Deaf Connections JDSG Involvement Event
The wider group discussed police interventions in incidences of domestic violence
between Deaf couples, and mixed relationships between a Deaf person and a
hearing person. The group had strong feelings about this and described incidences
of domestic violence going unreported or investigated, particularly violence against
Deaf women by hearing partners because Police are untrained, cannot deal
sensitively with the matter or won’t get interpreters in.
BSL users discussed problems seeing Lawyers without interpreters, as one
participant described ‘about 4-5 weeks ago I had to have a lawyer. Not for a crime,
for a different matter. I needed a lawyer that had some Deaf awareness. I went onto
Typetalk. I phoned up Edinburgh, the Law Society. I asked them for a lawyer in
Glasgow with some Deaf experience. I was told to hold on. I waited. They said sorry
there is no-one in Scotland with that type of experience, in working with Deaf people.
I was shocked they had no-one for Deaf people.’
All of the participants using BSL called for Deaf Awareness Training and more ‘relay’
or stand-by interpreters for Police, Courts staff and Lawyers. BSL users spoke of
often having a preference for interpreters who are not on registered lists so
registration needs to be expanded. ‘You might not want that particular interpreter.
Maybe they should give us the option of who to pick. They just pick for you. You
might want a particular person. It is important to be given a choice of interpreter.
You should make the decision, not the courts. This is important.’
Hard-of-hearing people spoke of the need for lip speakers and particularly notetakers in court for Deaf and hard-of-hearing people who read English. One
participant said ‘We never see electronic notetaking in court systems. This is a big
issue in terms of equality.’
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Deaf Connections JDSG Involvement Event
One participant who was a Deaf English speaker described being shown around
court in Inverness, after being involved in a car accident. She thought she would
have to give evidence and was concerned she wouldn't be able to follow
proceedings due to her hearing loss and the fact that people move about in court a
lot making lip-reading difficult. The other driver eventually admitted liability for the
accident so she didn’t actually have to testify but she said she would have been very
concerned about doing so. She had been told there was a loop system but there was
no-one to support her or discuss communication support like her need for a notetaker. She explained that It was scary not knowing the system and what was there to
support her ‘if you don't know what is available you don't know what to ask for’.
The workshop with participants who were hard of hearing discussed having to rely
on family members to communicate with the Police and with Lawyers. ‘My husband
was my support with the hearing world for years until I came here’. One participant
described taking her daughter with her to see a lawyer so that she would know
exactly what was being said. The whole group was adamant that hard-hearing
people should not have to rely on family members to provide communication support
in these circumstances ‘My daughter is only 3, she can’t help me with a lawyer! We
need note takers’. Another participants who was hard-of-hearing suggested that
Fingerspelling would be useful in police stations ‘Fingerspelling would be useful so
that we can understand complex words quickly and it is quick to learn. In Australia
they learn it at school. It is printed in the phone book’.
Court Systems do not allow Deaf and Hard-of-hearing people to undertake
Jury Duty, this should be reviewed
The issue of Jury service for Deaf and Hard-of-hearing people was discussed at
length by the wider group. Many participants had been called for Jury Service on
numerous occasions, even after they had produced evidence of medical exemption
to the Courts Service on grounds of hearing impairment. Whilst some participants
were unsure how they would cope in a court setting the strong feeling in the room
was that Deaf and Hard-of-hearing people should not be denied the opportunity of
serving on Juries and that this was essential for making them representative.
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Deaf Connections JDSG Involvement Event
‘We should have interpreters and note-takers in court, I know that there are concerns
about this but something needs to be done, we feel that it is discrimination at the
moment’. One participant suggested to the group that ‘there should be all-Deaf
Juries for trials involving Deaf people.’ This raised a lot of interest in the group and a
lot of BSL communication between participants on this went unrecorded, but there
was concern that the Deaf community in Scotland might be too small to allow this to
work. The overriding message was that if the correct communication support was
provided in Court Deaf and Hard-of-Hearing people would welcome the responsibility
of Jury Service.
A reliance on one type of equipment or method of communication fails to meet
the communications needs of all Deaf and hard-of hearing people
Participants from both the BSL using and English speaking groups discussed the
problems they have faced reporting crimes, going to court as a witness or as the
accused and/or seeking legal advice, because of the reliance of the hearing world on
the telephone as the preferred method of communication. ‘The phone is no good for
us, we need face-to-face communication.’
A lot of attention was by the wider group to the need for better name-calling systems
in Police Stations and Courts, at present Deaf and hard-of-hearing people miss their
names being shouted out by staff and can sit for hours not knowing what is
happening. One participant said ‘I went to the sheriff court. I have been there a few
times. When you walk in they speak to you straight away. You say you are Deaf.
They point you upstairs. They start speaking to you again. I produced a letter I have
to take with me. Go and sit down I am told. Many people are sitting. There are no
displays there. You wait and wait for an interpreter to come. It can be one, two,
three, even four hours. You are wondering and they say to come back after dinner.
There is no information being relayed to us. I go back after dinner. There is no
contact being made. You just sit. You ask what is happening. The court is finished. I
have been sitting there like a mug, no communication at all.’
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Deaf Connections JDSG Involvement Event
An LED ticker-tape machine was suggested for court waiting areas to improve this
situation ‘I went to hospital to help a Deaf couple recently. The LED lighting coming
up announcing it was their time; they could see this from the screen. Hopefully this
will spread to other places, e.g. the courts. I have been to hospital before and they
just shout your name. It is Deaf friendly to speak to a person to encourage a Deaf
person to speak to you. If they just come up and shout and don't use gesture by
showing awareness, this is unhelpful.’
Many Deaf people reported being told by Police and court staff that there shouldn’t
be a problem with communication because the ‘hearing loop is on’ even if they did
not use hearing aids or the loop was not working for them. Many participants
described just being told this as though the problem had been solved ‘He just told
me the hearing loop was on and that was it, conversation over, as though it didn’t
matter that I still couldn’t hear anything being said about me’. Many hard-of-hearing
people described the ineffectiveness of loops for them ‘When you spoke about the
loop system, I can't manage with that. I learned since coming here to Deaf
Connections that everyone's deafness is unique to them. I can't have a hearing aid
on one side. I have only one’.
In terms of reporting a crime, or interacting with the Justice System the wider group
thought that text messaging would be a good development for Deaf people who used
English. ‘The police spoke here one day. They were interested when someone said
about getting in touch with them by text. This is important. I can't use the phone. If I
saw something, that would be the best way.’
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Deaf Connections JDSG Involvement Event
Dismissive attitudes and inappropriate communication by hearing
professionals are still problematic for the Deaf community
A participant who was hard-of-hearing described what she called a ‘negative
feedback loop’ when communicating with Police Officers and Court Staff after her
husband had been the victim of a crime. ‘Hearing people sometimes don't know how
to react to you. They shout louder or exaggerate their lips. That is harder for us, it
doesn’t help us. Others shout into my ear. That distorts it. I shout back at them. And
before you know it you feel angry and frustrated and any trust that they will help you
is gone. They ask a question: I don't know the context; they ask again, I don't get it
still; they say ‘never mind’ and the matter is closed for them but I still don’t know
what is happening. No-one takes the extra effort, maybe they are scared’.
The wider group discussed experiences of being actively ignored, dismissed or
insulted by Police Officers, Court Staff and Lawyers. When describing getting legal
representation by a solicitor one BSL user explained ‘He wouldn’t even look at me
because I was Deaf, I didn’t exist. It was my case, he was representing me but he
didn’t once look into my eyes, I hated it.’
Ideas for Action:

There is a need for more BSL interpreters to be on stand-by for Justice sector
organisations

Justice sector organisation staff urgently need Deaf Awareness Training (DAT).
This should deal specifically with methods of communicating with BSL users, BSL
interpreters and hard-of-hearing people.

Police officers should train in BSL level one and be familiar with deaf voices

Note-taking is vital for hard-of-hearing people and useful for BSL users who can
read English. It provides an invaluable record of proceedings.

Finger-spelling training would be very useful for Justice staff when
communicating with hard-of-hearing people.

Interpreters, lip-readers and note-takers need to be provided in court to allow
Deaf and hard-of-hearing people to be on Juries.
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Deaf Connections JDSG Involvement Event

LED displays or other visual methods of communication for name-calling systems
in waiting rooms of Police Stations and Courts would help the Deaf community.

Text messaging systems for Police, Courts and Lawyers would improve
communication with deaf and hard-of-hearing people.
2.2. Information Barriers
Information about the accessing the Justice System is not getting out to Deaf
and hard-of-hearing people
The workshop with participants who were hard-of-hearing discussed the barriers
they face when getting or giving information to Justice Professionals, particularly
when reporting or trying to receive the right information from police, the courts and
from solicitors. The telephone is very problematic for many hard-of-hearing people
who rely on written and face to face communication. ‘If I want to contact the police I
have to actually go to the police station. The phone is difficult’. Many described not
being able to meet the right staff member to get the right information or taking away
incorrect or incomplete information if staff speak without looking at them, or too
quickly.
The issue of confidence to ask the right questions was particularly important for
hard-of-hearing participants. One participant explained ‘Since I lost my hearing I lost
my confidence. Coming back here....to Deaf Connections if I come across a problem
I say to the police officer what it is. If I have to go to court I would say: I need help at
court, what can you do for me? I expect them to tell me. I trust them to tell me.
Another followed ‘You said because you came here [to Deaf Connections] you had
the confidence to speak out and to ask questions. I know myself when my hearing
disappeared overnight, I didn't have confidence at all. It took time for this to build up
and for me to find out things.’
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Deaf Connections JDSG Involvement Event
The wider group explained that Deaf and deafened people are often missed out
when information is disseminated. When a JDSG member attending the event
described the Vulnerable Witness Act and the supports that can be put in place for
Deaf or hard-of-hearing witness in court the wider group of BSL users and English
speakers all agreed that information about legislation and policies that are there to
remove communication barriers needs to get out more effectively to the Deaf
community.
There needs to be more information about the Justice System available in places
frequented by members of the Deaf community. ‘The Police and the Courts should
target lip-reading classes, they should contact interpreters and Deaf Connections
and Deaf Action’.
Ideas for Action:

Justice sector organisations need to make information ‘Deaf friendly’. Many BSL
users do not read English and so need BSL interpretation in person or on-screen.

Justice sector organisations should seek advice from Deaf Connections and
other voluntary sector organisations representing Deaf people about formatting
information.

Justice sector organisations need to target lip-reading classes, Deaf clubs and
interpreters to contact the Deaf and hard-of-hearing community.

Targeted leaflet drops or seminars supported by BS interpreters and note-takers
about the Vulnerable Witnesses Act, or rights-entitlement in other areas would be
very welcome.
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3. Summary of Ideas for Action

There is a need for more BSL interpreter across Scotland

BSL Interpreters and note-takers need to be on stand-by for Justice sector
organisations

Justice sector organisation staff urgently need Deaf Awareness Training (DAT).
This should deal specifically with methods of communicating with BSL users, BSL
interpreters and hard-of-hearing people.

Police officers should train in BSL level one and be familiar with deaf voices

Note-taking is vital for hard-of-hearing people and useful for BSL users who can
read English. It provides an invaluable record of proceedings.

Finger-spelling training would be very useful for Justice staff when
communicating with hard-of-hearing people.

Interpreters, lip-readers and note-takers need to be provided in court to allow
Deaf and hard-of-hearing people to be on Juries.

LED displays or other visual methods of communication for name-calling systems
in waiting rooms of Police Stations and Courts would help the Deaf community.

Text messaging systems for Police, Courts and Lawyers would improve
communication with Deaf and hard-of-hearing people.

Justice sector organisations need to make information ‘Deaf friendly’. Many BSL
users do not read English and so need BSL interpretation in person or on-screen.

Justice sector organisations should seek advice from Deaf Connections and
other voluntary sector organisations representing Deaf people about formatting
information.

Justice sector organisations need to target lip-reading classes, Deaf clubs and
interpreters to contact the Deaf and hard-of-hearing community.

Targeted leaflet drops or seminars supported by BS interpreters and note-takers
about the vulnerable witness act or rights entitlement in other areas would be
very welcome.
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Deaf Connections JDSG Involvement Event
4. Continuing involvement
There was hope and optimism about the Justice Sector reaching out to the Deaf and
hard-of-hearing community. the group were pleased to see such a large turn-out at
the event and wanted local media coverage of the event. Participants believed that
the time is right to remove the barriers that Deaf and hard-of-hearing face accessing
Justice. People were very keen to seize the opportunity provided by the JDSG
involvement programme and left their contact details with Deaf Connections to be
passed on if appropriate.
The group was keen to be kept informed about the work of the JDSG and requested
sight of the event report. The report will be sent out to all participants through Deaf
Connections and the JDSG should keep Deaf Connections informed about the
progress of the project so that this can be fed back to participants.
Ideas for Action

Feed back to participants at the events what action is going to be taken as a
result of their suggestions.

Information provided about involvement should be ‘Deaf friendly’.

Keep participants informed about the progress of the project through Deaf
Connections.
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Deaf Connections JDSG Involvement Event
This report is available in a variety of accessible formats. To
discuss your requirements please contact the communications
team at Capability Scotland on 0131 347 1055 or
communications@capability-scotland.org.uk.
October 2009
Capability Scotland
11 Ellersly Road
Edinburgh
EH12 6HY
0131 347 1055
www.capability-scotland.org.uk
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