William Church
Oral History Recording
Track Mono 003
This is Lorraine Simpson, it’s the 11th August at 2.30 in the afternoon and I’m
interviewing William Church for the Kirkgate Calling Oral History project. So can
you just tell me where you were born?
Yes, I was born at 67 Haddingley Hill, Sandal, Wakefield. It doesn’t exist anymore
but it was a row of houses, and I was born on the 14th June 1933.
Can you remember what the neighbourhood of Haddingley Hill was like?
It was very nice, everybody knew everybody else and there seemed to be a nice
atmosphere among people. You know, neighbours and all that kind of thing. There
was one lady, Mrs Yardley, she was the local midwife, so she was known to
everybody.
Are there any other people?
Oh yes, there was numerous people. Mrs Walker, a very small woman who had two
or three children, who used to go down to the pub and get a jug of ale. There was Mrs
Saxton who had three big sons but they’re all gone now, unfortunately. And Mrs
White at the bottom, she had two or three sons as well. It was a very nice area.
Did you have friends to play with?
Not immediately. Because when I was six we moved up into a new house, Woodland
Drive in Milnthorpe and there weren’t any kids up there to play with. Not for a while
anyway.
What made your parents make that move to Woodland Drive?
Well, it was a better situation and they’d obviously saved up for it, I suppose
mortgages were easy to get in those days. And the chap who sold them the land said,
you must remember that land is cheaper than lino. Which is was.
So it was a new house?
Yes a nice new house. But I hadn’t any kids to play with at that time.
So how did you used to spend your time?
Oh, drawing, fiddling about, helping people, mother and father. But some lads came
on the scene a couple of years later so I used to get out and about with them. A
favourite trip was to Newmillerdam Woods.
Why was it a favourite place?
Well, the lads with me enjoyed it as well as me. And we used to go, it was all locked
up, but we used to go over the wall at the top. And get inside and look for sweet
chestnuts, but in those days, Newmillerdam, with it being enclosed, was beautiful.
You used to get yellow flowers right across the lake and it was quite commonplace to
see dragonflies and mayflies all over the place. In other words, it was a pleasant place
to be. But we never got chased out or anything like that.
What about going to school, where did you go to school?
I went to a private school, Miss Williams, on Castle Road in Sandal, I went there for
several years until I was about ten or eleven and then I went to Sandal Endowed
School.
So was Miss Williams school a small school?
Yes it was only a small school but it was very nice.
You liked it?
Yes.
What did you like about it?
Everything.
Did you have to wear a school uniform?
Yes.
Can you remember what it was like?
Yes, grey and red, grey trousers and a red pullover.
And did you have dinners whilst you were at school?
Yes.
And what were they like?
They were very good. Miss Williams had an associate who used to do the cooking.
What was your favourite subject at school?
Art.
Was there much opportunity for you to do that?
Now and then. Yes, now and then.
Did you feel like you’d got a talent for that early on?
Well I used to enjoy it, I don’t know about the talent but I used to enjoy it rather than
any other subject.
Were there any particular playground games that you used to play at school?
No, because it was a private house, there was only the lawn at the back. So we were a
bit restricted for games and that kind of thing, but nevertheless it was very pleasant.
So either there at Miss Williams or at Sandal Endowed can you remember a typical
day and what that looked like?
Well, I can’t remember Miss Williams, it’s a bit vague now, lost in the mists of time,
but at Sandal Endowed, you got there and you had to be there for nine o’clock. If you
weren’t, you got caned. You got caned for being a minute late. But there were some
nice teachers, Miss Matthews, Miss Smith and one or two more, Miss Oglesby, it was
a pleasant place to be, it was a good school.
So if we move on to Kirkgate, what do you know about Kirkgate? You worked in
Wakefield?
Yes, but Kirkgate was sort of a dark area to me. I remember going on one or two trips
to the coast with Working Men’s Clubs and things like that. They were always from
Kirkgate and back to Kirkgate you know, we’d go to Bridlington or something like
that.
How has that area changed over time, the Kirkgate area?
Well I think it’s improved a bit, there’s some new housing gone up. Prior to that there
was a lot of two up and down houses. That kind of thing, that wanted knocking
down. So it was improved by the entrance to the station.
What can you remember of the station itself when you used to catch these trains?
Not a lot, not a lot, it seemed a bit dim and dark, did the station. But nevertheless, it
served a purpose and we were never waiting long, you know.
Was it looked after?
Yes, it was clean and tidy and what have you.
Staff?
Staff, yes, there were good.
Were there any buildings on the platforms, were there waiting rooms?
I can’t remember, I’m sorry to tell you, I can’t remember.
Have you any memories of the buildings around Kirkgate Station, the houses?
No, not really, not really. Lower Kirkgate was sort of a dead area for buildings. They
knocked a lot of houses and shops down and replaced them but I can’t recall what was
going up Kirkgate on the right hand side unless it was a field, because I helped put
that Crown Buildings up, which is now knocked down. And that seemed to take a big
piece of Kirkgate up.
What was there before Crown Buildings?
I can’t remember. Can’t remember. Don’t think it was houses or anything like that. A
field or something.
This is Lorraine Simpson. I’m interviewing William Church for the second time for
the oral history Kirkgate Calling project. It’s the 10th of November at 7.20pm.
William, can I just ask you what you can remember about Kirkgate when you were a
boy? We’re looking at some old photographs of Kirkgate. Do you remember any of
the buildings?
Yes, I remember, I remember some of the buildings. What interested me mostly was
how dirty all the buildings were, including pubs and everything else.
Why do you think that was?
I’ve no idea. But all you had to do was look up and the streets were black with the
soot and that.
So was Kirkgate one long road that went right down to the railway bridge?
Yes it was.
Can you remember any particular buildings on there?
No but I remember the Empire Cinema.
And where was the Empire Cinema?
Nearly opposite the end of George Street.
Right. And did you go there? Can you remember what you went to see there?
No. Too long ago.
Was it films rather than theatre?
Yes, it was films.
What about the shops on Kirkgate?
Some of them were nice. There wasn’t any shops from the ‘leading group’ people, do
you know what I mean? Branch shops from some of the bigger places. There were
just individual shops and they were quite good. But when you got further up into
Upper Kirkgate there was Boots there, British Home Stores and Marks and Spencers.
And they were the first ones really to come into Wakefield and do multipurpose
selling as it were.
Can you remember the Six Chimneys?
Yes.
Whereabouts was that?
That was at the end of Peterson Road. It was eventually knocked down. It was an old
building and it was neglected and the chap, I forget his name now, who owned it, I
should remember it but I can’t, he complained to the city and asked for help I
maintaining the building itself but I think the corporation turned him down. And then
eventually one wing started to fall down and that was it. They had to condemn it then
because you can’t have people going into a shop that’s falling down.
They couldn’t save it at that point?
No. It was a shame because it was an old building in Wakefield it ought to have been
preserved as a museum or whatever. It ought to have been preserved but it wasn’t.
So was it roughly where the roundabout is now?
Yes. I can’t think of the man’s name. He was always seen wondering about at the
front of the shop. It just sold general things, basket, buckets, that kind of thing, you
know. Hammond’s cycle shop, Hammond that was the fella’s name.
So there was a cycle shop in there?
Yes. But there was another old building in Northgate. Betty Gold’s fish and chip
shop. A timber building, lovely old timber building. They knocked all the buildings
down round it so it was isolated on it’s own.
So when you talk about all these individual shops in Kirkgate – I’ve heard you say
that you could get anything you needed in Wakefield?
Yes, you could. There was Scarrs – they sold hardware and cleaning stuff.
And were there little yards that went off?
Yes, and they were occupied. But there was Redman’s there, which everybody went
to. It was a handy place. It was a busy place, and gradually it got cleaned up.
So what memories have you got of working in Wakefield?
Well, my father started down Southgate. It was a small to start with. I did my two
years at the art school, then I had to join him, there was no alternative. Well, there
was, but he wouldn’t have it.
So did you work alongside a lot of other companies in Wakefield?
Yes, but I just started as an apprentice same as everybody else. We did different jobs
in different places in Wakefield. Got better known. Then got larger, not too large,
but larger.
What about leisure? Did you ever go into Wakefield for anything else?
There was Trinity Boys, I played rugby for them for three years. And they were
situated in the old Holy Trinity Church up George Street.
So what was Trinity Boys?
It was a sports club, started by a fella called Richard, can’t remember his surname.
He was Montgomery’s aide during the war. In Germany when Montgomery wanted
to go in and Eisenhower wouldn’t let him. I met him twice, Montgomery. He came
down twice to the youth club. He was introduced to us all, had a cup of tea and a bun,
gave little talks. Then about two years after, he came again. The remarkable thing
was he could remember all our names. Now then, William, he says, you haven’t
joined the army? I said no. But he went round everybody and knew all their names
and that was remarkable. Nice little fella, only small. Dapper, I think, is the word for
it. I used to do the shot put, discus in junior sports, packed it up as I got older. I was
putting myself about, so to speak (laughs).
So you went to Trinity Boys, you went to the cinema, did you ever go dancing?
No, never went dancing until I met your mother. I was the Yorkshire Junior
Champion with the shot put. And cricket, I played at least four or five years for
Newmillerdam as a fast bowler. But you could never get to bat or bowl any further
up. A friend of mine, Brian Taylor, he was playing with me there.
So did you play rugby for Sandal as well?
Yes, initially. It was a bit stupid. I was fifteen on the 14th June and old Beaumont,
who was the secretary for Sandal, spotted me at the Walnut and said would I like to
join the club and I said yes. I assumed it was just to join the club. But two or three
weeks later I got a postcard and it said ‘you’re picked for the second team’. (Laughs).
But up to then, I’d just trained with them. But I bought myself some new boots and
off we went. And we went to Headingley. Lost about 53 nothing. Murdered. And
the same somewhere else. And then we went to the College of Resurrection at
Mirfield, that was in the circuit. And they were very interesting places. But I broke
with those, I cut my eye open. And my dad says, you’re not ready for them yet.
You’re big enough but you’re not strong enough. Which is true. He said, they’ll kill
you if you go on there. So I decided to leave union alone and go to rugby league
which I found much easier. But I was quite a sporty lad, used to get out and about.
Tennis, I used to play tennis, played with your mum at one time.
When we talk about Kirkgate Station, you said something about the benches in the
waiting room?
Yes. I’m sure they were painted green and they weren’t fastened down. I can’t
remember the fire but it would have been the only heating in the waiting room. So if
it got really cold, people could get hold of the benches and carry them over to the fire.
And was it quite a big waiting room?
No, moderate.
I’ve got two photographs of the station here.
Yes, that’s when it was good. We found a cart in a warehouse that we bought, in
Thompson’s Yard and it was covered in pigeon muck and what have you. I decided to
clean it up and on the side there was a star of David and a man’s name, which was
obviously the owner’s name, from about sixty years before. And I painted over it,
instead of leaving it.
Do you remember the engine sheds on Belle Vue?
Yes. They were noisy and dirty. And also there was that street that went off to the
left at the bottom of Kirkgate. And on that street, there was the dye people.
You mean Calder Vale Road?
Yes, that’s right. And there was a boilermaker’s. There was all sorts, a very big
industrial area was that. You only went down there if you had a purpose for going.
Is there anything else you want to tell me?
No I don’t think so.
Well thank you very much.