Meeting of the MBTA Rider Oversight Committee
10 Park Plaza, Boston, MA
Conference Rooms 1, 2, and 3
Monday, April 27, 2015
5:00 to 7:00 PM
ROC Member Attendance
Belcher, Jonathon
CTPS
Absent
Carney, David
MBTA
Absent
Creedon, Robert
AFC
Absent
Diggins, Lenard
Public Member
Present
Dullea, Melissa
MBTA
Absent
Foley, Trish
MassDOT
Present
Foster, Tom
Commuter Rail
Absent
Hart, Nicholas
CTPS
Absent
Jay, James
Public Member
Absent
Knight, Patrick
Public Member
Absent
Laskowski, Craig
Public Member
Present
McCarthy, Daniel
MassDOT
Present
Perrault, Ian
AACT
Absent
Planck, Charles
MBTA
Absent
Purin, Donna
Public Member
Absent
Rowe, Andrew
Public Member
Absent
Scheier, Erik
MBTA
Absent
Scott, Beverly
MBTA
Absent
Sindel, David
Public Member
Absent
Spears, Steffin
Public Member
Absent
Weber, Lisa
AACT
Present
Wepsic, Karen
Public Member
Present
Wheeler, Bonnie
Public Member
Absent
Wuensch, Stefan
Public Member
Present
Zamore, Wig
Public Member
Present
Other Attendees: Jeff Gonneville (MBTA), Steve Hicks (MBTA), Joe
Gentilucci (MBTA), Jon Keeffe (MBTA), Barry Steinberg, Steven
Gouun
Agenda
Call Meeting to Order: Wig Zamore at 5:05 P.M.
Safety Briefing and Welcome: Trish Foley
Public Comments:
Karen Wepsic made a comment regarding a bus she saw emitting
black smoke.
ROC Introductions
Members of ROC introduced themselves to the Jeff Gonneville
and his staff.
Jeff Gonneville, Chief Mechanical Officer
Jeff Gonneville, Chief Mechanical Officer of the MBTA, was
invited to the General Meeting by the Committee.
Mr. Gonneville opened up his time with the Committee with
general statements, specifically lessons learned from the winter
and plans moving forward. He spoke to the extraordinary weather
that Boston experienced and the consequent various failures
experienced by the MBTA. Mr. Gonneville identified failures to the
propulsion systems as the most damaging to regular service. Mr.
Gonneville and his team explained the mechanical reasons for
failure and the difficulties the weather and circumstance posed.
Mr. Gonneville stated that the greatest number of failures was on
the Orange Line, despite having what the MBTA thought was a
good amount of backup traction motors going into the winter. He
then explained the MBTA’s previous thinking as “more snow,
more trains you run,” something that had worked in years past.
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However, in the extreme level of snow this winter, this plan
damaged trains. The MBTA recognized this and made the
decision to not run trains to prevent longer-lasting damage.
Mr. Gonneville stated that the newer train fleets also suffered
failures. The 5 cars experienced 51 failures, while the 3 cars
suffered 22 failures. CMO Gonneville affirmed that on an average
day, there are 460 traction motors dedicated to the Orange Line,
and during the winter, 160 of these traction motors failed. He
claimed that in order to deal with these unprecedented failures,
the MBTA set up emergency contacts with several businesses to
repair the failed motors and resume service more quickly.
Jeff Gonneville then pivoted to answer the questions posed by the
Committee. In regards to increasing the number of spare traction
motors, Mr. Gonneville specified that the MBTA is seeking to add
roughly 60 motors to the Orange Line, 30 spare motors for the #1
and #2, 20 motors for the Red and Blue Lines, and 15 for the #3.
Mr. Gonneville thanked LTK for their assistance in investigating
the causes behind the MBTA failures this winter. This contractor
has provided the MBTA with quality data that the Authority can
enact change on. Because of this assistance, the MBTA is two
months ahead of schedule on changes. LTK even developed a
prototype for the Authority to help prevent some of the traction
motor failures.
Mr. Gonneville declared that the Authority is currently looking for
funding to overhaul and repair some of the maintenance backlog.
He asserted that the average life span of a rapid transit car is 2530 years, and the Authority’s trains are due for an overhaul.
A public attendant asked what caused the failures in the #3 cars.
Mr. Gonneville and his staff reiterated, in more technical detail,
what caused the mechanical failures. They labeled the issue a
“self-perpetuating problem,” with snow, moisture, overheating,
and insulation. Lenard Diggens then asked if there were any
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designs that can withstand the influx of snow and the resulting
issues. Mr. Gonneville pointed to the new Red Line cars and the
American Public Transportation Association (APTA) peer review.
The APTA review, consisting of representatives from New York
City, New Jersey, Chicago, Toronto, and others, cited the
necessity for a non-revenue fleet to clear snow. Mr. Gonneville
claimed that New York and Chicago had “ah ha” moments, when
storms lead them to creating these fleets. The CMO declared that
the Authority would further research possibly pursuing refitting
older trains with new materials and/or purchase new trains. He
agreed with the findings of the APTA review. Jeff Gonneville
thanked New York MTA for their assistance during this winter.
Craig Laskowski asked the CMO why the MBTA did not employ
all of their trains, specifically the larger trains that have been
decommissioned since the late 1990s. The CMO answered that
he did not know why these trains were not being used, but also
that his team is currently working on updating, repairing, and
retrofitting these trains for the next winter. The challenge, Mr.
Gonneville claims, is that, due to the age of these trains, many of
the parts need to be completely stripped and replaced – a timeconsuming process. The MBTA does have the funding to
revitalize these trains. The Authority also is considering
purchasing new custom fitted equipment. Mr. Gonneville again
asserts that the Authority learned a great deal from this winter,
specifically regarding emergency construction contracts.
Lenard Diggens inquired about the personnel issues of the MBTA,
explicitly ensuring that employees are properly trained on not only
the new equipment, but also the current equipment. Mr.
Gonneville assured Mr. Diggens that the Authority will properly
train all employees. Mr. Diggens then asked about the
procurement process and how the Authority’s process is different
than the private sector. Mr. Gonneville outlined the procurement
process, highlighting the complexity and intended redundancies in
the system, as the MBTA is a public entity, subject to public laws
and processes. To help streamline the procurement process, the
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Authority will subcontract projects to private companies, which
can be more efficient.
Lisa Weber thanked Mr. Gonneville and his staff for coming and
having a discussion with the Committee. Ms. Weber raised a
concern over the equipment’s durability in not only winter, but also
summer. She asserted that because of recent events, the citizens
of Massachusetts are receptive to changes to the MBTA,
including increased funding. Ms. Weber ended her statements
with a declaration that drivers who disrupt service by getting stuck
on tracks should be ticketed.
Mr. Gonneville responded to Ms. Weber’s comments. He shared
her concerns for the equipment’s durability in the heat of summer,
but assured the Committee that the Governor and his office have
been constantly in contact with himself and the MBTA. While
focused on winter recovery, Mr. Gonneville, his staff, and the
Governor’s office have been planning for the summer challenges.
The Authority has sought out contacts to develop new A/C units
and repair old units, along with other measures to ensure a
successful summer.
Karen Wepsic aired her concerns over the Mattapan Trolley
Replacement Plan. Mr. Gonneville informed Ms. Wepsic and the
Committee that he and the Interim GM Frank DePaola have
spoken about this issue on numerous occasions. It is the opinion
of Mr. Gonneville that the Mattapan trolleys have gone beyond
their usefulness and belong in a museum. The MBTA has
contracted a civil engineering firm to evaluate the Mattapan Line
and different options moving forward.
Lenard Diggens questioned the current snow policies of the
MBTA, arguing that it could be more effective to lower service in
times of extreme weather, rather than maintaining regular levels.
Mr. Gonneville declared that the snow policies and standard
operating procedures of the MBTA will have to change, and in
fact, they are currently developing a new 2015-2016 winter plan.
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The CMO believes that this plan will contain a reduced service
plan as a way to protect trains. He also stated that change is
difficult for the MBTA, and that any plan will be continually
evolving based on available equipment. The changes will also
reflect some of the recommendations and findings from the APTA
review, such as reduced service and storm drains in tunnels. Mr.
Gonneville hopes to enact “full scale drills” to prepare T
employees and the system for emergency scenarios.
Wig Zamore asked Mr. Gonneville if he was willing to extend his
time with the Committee, as the original 45 minutes of discussion
had already gone by, for an additional 10 minutes. Mr. Gonneville
and his staff agreed.
Mr. Gonneville announced that he wished to discuss anti-icing, as
he has heard numerous questions about its use and
misinformation in the media and public. He dismissed the
declarations of anti-icing as the “ultimate solution.” The CMO
admitted that the Authority has not typically used anti-icing in the
past, but employed it this winter. Usually, the T runs “sleet
scrapers” to clear off the ice buildup, which has worked
previously, and which Mr. Gonneville believes is more effective
than anti-icing. He pointed to the Toronto system, which all of
their trains are outfitted with a delivery system of these deicing
chemicals.
Lisa Weber suggested the MBTA develop a shuttle bus service
plan in which shuttle buses will replace train service during
extreme weather events. Ms. Weber also suggested that school
buses could be employed during times of necessity, as the
schools benefit greatly from the T. Mr. Gonneville responded that
usually, the MBTA handles all shuttle buses, but due to the
severity of this winter, the MBTA contracted outside help from
Peter Pan, Yankee, and other bus companies.
Stefen Wuensch inquired about the DMU procurement process.
Mr. Gonneville clarified that it went out to bid on December 31,
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2014 and it is still out to bid right now, with proposals due on
August 13, 2015. Mr. Gonneville identified an expected
November/December 2015 timeframe. Mr. Wuensch then asked if
there was any way of monitoring the data of temperature
fluctuations. The CMO acknowledged that this has been an issue
that the MBTA has been working on for over a year and a half. It
is still something that a team of engineers is still investigating,
with the hardware aspect of the project completed, but the
software aspect complicating the process. The MBTA has in place
a “low-tech solution,” which monitors energy spikes through white
carbon readings.
Craig Laskowski inquired about the MBTA backlog, hoping to
glean Jeff Gonneville’s perspective on the matter. Mr. Gonneville
addressed the “state of good repair” backlog, claiming that it is not
what the media has made it out to be. Mr. Gonneville asserted
that the MBTA is known in the industry of public transit as a
leader of asset management. Even still, it is difficult to measure
the “state of good repair,” as it is not a concrete, finite number.
The CMO admitted that the year to year questions about specific
state of good repair make is difficult to prepare for the future.
Mr. Diggens asked what the Committee could do for the CMO and
his staff. Mr. Gonneville rejected the notions perpetuated by the
media that the Authority is filled with “knuckle-draggers,” who are
completely inept, and that the Authority is completely
mismanaged. The CMO expressed his excitement about the new
administration and all of the attention on the T. Mr. Gonneville
thanked the Committee and left at 6:31 P.M.
Wig Zamore asked both subcommittees to briefly summarize the
notes from their meetings, as there was very little time left.
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Marketing, Communications, and Operations Standing
Committee
Mr. Wuensch reviewed the highlights from the Marketing,
Communications, and Operations Standing Committee meeting.
He stated that the majority of the meeting was focused on the
findings of the Governor’s Panel’s report. Some reactions,
comments, and questions the subcommittee had regarding the
report were as follows: the findings on parking and concessions
were relatively positive, compared to other agencies; they had
questions over the science of the report, specifically some of the
comparisons were “apples to oranges.” The subcommittee also
discussed the possibility of the MBTA procuring a fully electric bus
fleet.
Finance and Capital Committee
Mr. Diggens summarized the meeting notes from the April
Finance and Capital Committee meeting. The subcommittee
followed up with the representatives from Uplink, hoping to
connect the T and Uplink as the Authority thinks about the future.
Mr. Diggens questioned the incentives of Commuter Rail
operators and conductors to collect fares, as the money goes to
the T, not Keolis. Mr. Diggens then discussed the new Youth
Pass Program, which he saw as a positive step for the MBTA. He
examined the status of the University Pass Program, but there
have been no updates, although the Governor’s Panel suggested
the T work with universities in the future.
Manager’s Report
The Committee provisionally passed the minutes, pending any
emailed changes or updates from the absent members. Any
changes of previous minutes are due within the week.
New/Old Business
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Wig Zamore provided the committee with an update on black
carbon. Mr. Zamore identified diesel as the greatest contributor to
black carbon, which he labeled as the “second worst pollutant.”
The co-chair also decried the disconnect between the states and
their response to black carbon, specifically Massachusetts delay
in addressing this issue. A report on this issue will be released the
first week of May.
Craig Laskowski praised Jeff Gonneville and his staff as one of
the better conversations this Committee has had. He expressed
his disappointment with the attendance of the Committee,
especially when they were expecting a known guest of this
stature. Mr. Diggens and Mr. Laskowski cited the lack of
attendance as a need to add new members.
Mr. Zamore brought the Committee’s attention to an upcoming allday transportation summit in Worcester, featuring Secretary
Pollack as a speaker.
Public Comments
Steven Gounn took the podium. Mr. Gouun disagreed with some
of the points and service planning of the Governor’s Panel, Mr.
Gonneville, and others. It is his opinion that there should bever be
a suspension of service unless the Governor explicitly orders it.
Mr. Gouun also brought the Committee’s attention to a recent
lawsuit filed against Keolis. Finally, Mr. Gouun inquired about the
status of the MassDOT Board’s decision on Late Night Service –
the Committee answered that the Late Night Service was not
eliminated, but rather reduced, ending a ½ hour earlier and going
along less routes.
Stefan Wuensch described his experience with the “Free Day on
the T.” He noticed lower than usual crowds at peak hours, but
during the off-peak times, there was something like a 4-5x
increase in ridership. Karen Wepsic inquired if there were any
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statistics on ridership available. She wondered what the data
would reveal, specifically about on-time performance.
Meeting Adjourned at 6:56 P.M.
The MBTA urges all interested parties to attend. The meeting location
is accessible to persons with disabilities.
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