‘HARD GROUND’
Bruce Dern Questions & Answers
You have done a lot of westerns. Why do you think westerns are making a
comeback and how does that make you feel? What are the aspects of this
genre that are the most appealing?
I do not know what made the western disappear from television. In my opinion, the
western was a great learning tool for people, as inaccurate as it may have been. They
may have had the participants wrong, but the facts were generally correct. Luckily for
me, I started my career in a western ("Stoney Burke," 1962-63).
The 1960s were the heyday of the western. When the decade ended, so did the genre.
At one time you had "Big Valley," "Rawhide" and "Gunsmoke." You had maybe 17 hours
of westerns on television each week in the 1960s. There was always work if you
wanted to do westerns.
But then they went out, just like the doctor shows and the game shows. Soon the
easiest show to pass on was the western.
Movies are all timing. You are not going to see the western more than once or twice a
season, but you are going to see — particularly with the independent channels — you
are going to see more and more westerns. It makes sense to go to western product
because there is a strong fan base for it.
I think one reason is because of the success of the film "Unforgiven." It was almost a
decade between the time of the last western and Clint Eastwood's "Unforgiven." And
that film stirred a cross-section of audiences who were going to see movies. It caught
the under-25 moviegoers. That's how I think the western got reborn.
To this day, certainly the best work I have ever seen between two actors was what
happened between Tommy Lee Jones and Bobby Duvall in "Lonesome Dove." That is
about as good as it gets. They just got it down. Their locker-roomish kind of
camaraderie just made that story take off and sail. That is what I hope Burt (Reynolds)
and I achieved in "Hard Ground."
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What was it about the role of Sheriff Nat Hutchinson in "Hard Ground" that
inspired you?
Number one was Burt. I have known Burt since the end of the 1950s. We were in New
York at the same time; I was doing a play with Rip Torn and he was Rip's roommate.
That was the first time I even knew of him.
Number two was the camaraderie in the story. It was a wonderful chance for two guys
who, in the story, re-team to do something they had done in their heyday 20 to 25
years earlier.
And Burt and I looked at it at as a chance to team. We wanted to look like we'd done it
together a hundred times.
And with David Cass producing and Frank Dobbs directing, there was a tremendous kind
of a team there. It was everyone who was plugged into westerns for the past forty
years. I liked that.
Then, the script knocked me out. Not only did the story have a unique twist, it really
was a kind of a love story. You could say that "Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid" is
a kind of a love story, too. This a love story about totally different values. It is about
doing the right thing.
It also gave me a chance to play a good guy. I've played so many guys on the other
side of the fence. My job was always to come in, threaten everyone that I was going to
tear their throats out, then actually tear a few throats out and then die. It all
culminated with me killing John Wayne in "The Cowboy."
The other thing about it, this story has all the great values of what westerns have
always been about … character, honesty and doing the right thing.
In "Hard Ground," your character, Hutch, goes to Burt Reynolds' character,
McKay, and asks for his help. But there is a lot of bad blood between them.
Is it difficult for Hutch to admit that he needs McKay's help?
Hutch has a problem and he says it right at the start. He has got a point man, he can
track these bad guys, he can follow them and he can even corner them, but he is
missing one thing, and that is a killer. Killing is not his forte anymore.
Hutch had once been a bounty hunter, but then he became a lawman. When McKay
broke the law — and he broke it badly — Hutch put him in prison.
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But as the story progresses, Hutch finally has to face the realization that maybe, for one
time in his life, he could have looked the other way. He did not have to put McKay
behind bars.
Frank Dobbs told me that ever since he wrote this teleplay he wanted one person to
play the role with Burt, and that was me. But then, when it came time to cast the bad
guy, he said he thought I could be the bad guy, too.
I do not want to be the bad guy anymore. I did three decades of the bad guy — that is
enough. Because of the onus of bad guy roles, everyone thinks I played the bad guy
even in movies like "Coming Home." My character in that movie is not a bad guy; you
miss the whole point of the movie if he is a bad guy. He is a guy that went and saw
something he did not expect and had his heart broken. All his life he believed in the war
college, so to speak, and he got over there and it was a mess.
What I liked in "Hard Ground" is when McKay (Reynolds) and I get out on the road.
McKay is a killer, but together McKay and Hutch make an awesome pair. And, along the
way, we just happen to take these kids, Joshua (Seth Peterson) and Elizabeth (Amy Jo
Johnson) and make them realize they are not children.
How was it working with Seth Peterson and Amy Jo Johnson?
Amy Jo was wonderful, just a wonderful, wonderful young lady. She is like one of those
people who comes along once every decade who is a little elf. She has got very elfish
qualities about her. She sings and she has a record.
As for Seth, I have to say that I always look to what is the reality of the situation. Here
we have a young actor doing his first sizeable part in a movie with two veteran actors.
Most importantly was not to let him be intimidated. Make him understand that we are
there to be a net for him — if he tries to be courageous or take risks as an actor, we are
going to be right there to catch him, pick him up and do it again. But will we ride him
all day about it? Absolutely. He'll pay a price. He walked out of that movie knowing
he had an experience working with Bruce Dern.
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Both you and Burt Reynolds are a father figure to Seth’s character in “Hard
Ground.” How did that work?
For one thing, I have a kid [Laura Dern] who has been through it since she was 11, so I
felt that I had to be there for Seth. That was my job. And that was my job as Hutch in
the movie, to let him know I am there to back him up. This is a kid who has been
buried in a TV series for several years. Now he is getting a chance at the big one — he
has got a chance to start in the Super Bowl in terms of what his character is doing in the
movie, and in terms of what Seth is doing in real life.
John Wayne did for me on “The Cowboys” what I hope I was able to do for Seth on
“Hard Ground.” He just kept saying to me, “Don’t let up on me” from day one.
Both Seth and Amy Jo probably were not schooled in westerns. Did you help
them in any way?
Neither one of them had seen a horse, but when it came to the critters, I did not help
them a bit. I can tell you this, for 40 years I have looked great under the hat, but once
the horses start to move, I am off them.
I always did it and looked pretty good doing it, but if you look where the hands are, I
am just hanging on for dear life. Can I ride? Yes, I can ride, but I cannot ride like Mr.
Reynolds. He rides like the wind. Well, Mr. Dern is from Winnetka. You have to walk a
long way from Winnetka, Illinois, to see a real horse, much less a real cowboy.
Was it a physically challenging role?
The day-to-day was pretty easy, but at the end of the shoot I got dumped by a horse
and ended up breaking my collarbone and some ribs. But you know what I did? I went
back on that horse 15 minutes later to do the close-up; then I went to the hospital.
Later I came back and finished the shoot.
Then I got on a plane and went to Florida a week later to do the hardest movie shoot
["Monster"] I have ever been on in my life.
The best guy through it all was Burt. We both know what it is like. He knew it hurt, but
this is a man who has broken 97 bones in his body. So he knew, but what are you
going to do? Screw a movie company when they are trying to finish? You just suck it
up and play it hurt.
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Any final thoughts on "Hard Ground"?
"Hard Ground" ended up being as good an experience an actor could ever be a part of.
I do not know if he knows it, but Larry Levinson is creating an atmosphere over there at
Hallmark Channel where you are not only getting pretty good material, but you are
getting a chance to do it. This is a buddy movie, a relationship movie, with a good twist
to it. They could easily do another one if they wanted to. It has all the magic of such
things as "The Wild Bunch" and "Butch Cassidy."
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