SFGC Minutes of the meeting held 9th August 2012
Unconfirmed Minutes of the Fish & Game NZ, Southland Region, Council meeting held in the
Council Office, 159 North Road, Invercargill on Thursday 9th August 2012.
Present
Michael Hartstonge
Graeme Watson
Lindsay Withington
Fred Inder
Russel Graham
Cyril Gilroy
Peter Sutton
Paul Stenning
Les Ladbrook
Staff In attendance:
M Rodway, S Sutherland, Z Moss, W Jarvie, J Smyth.
C Mason (Minutes).
Members of the Public:
David White, Gerald McRae and Gareth McRae.
Welcome:
At 6.30pm the Manager welcomed those present and called for nominations for Chairman for the
evening as Stephen Brown had leave of absence.
Graeme Watson was nominated - Sutton/Stenning. There were no further nominations and Graeme
was declared Chairman of the meeting.
Apologies:
Resolved Ladbrook/Stenning that apologies be received and sustained from Bryce Johnson, Ron
Peacock and John Purey-Cust. Stephen Brown and Ray Waghorn had leave of absence. Carried.
Minutes of the meeting held 14th June 2012
Resolved Sutton/Inder that the minutes of the meeting held 14th June 2012 were a true and correct
record. Carried.
Maters arising from the minutes:
Biosecurity NZ Funding - Graeme Peek:
Maurice reported that Fish & Game had been advised verbally by the Ministry of Primary Industries
that they would continue to provide funds for Graeme Peek’s didymo work to the same level
($20,000) received in previous years. Environment Southland would also contribute $5,000. Graeme
would commence work on December 1st 2012, based in Te Anau.
Fiordland Monorail Development proposal:
The decision on the Fiordland Monorail & Tunnel proposals was still pending from the Minister of
Conservation.
There had been mounting pressure and a campaign raised against the proposals.
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SFGC Minutes of the meeting held 9th August 2012
Bill advised that a well organised Group had been formed (“Save Fiordland Group”) to combat both
these proposals and any future ones and the Group hoped the campaign would become a
nationwide issue. It was growing in support and a hardcopy petition was now being circulated
nationally for presentation to Parliament if required.
Graeme asked if the public pressure shown in regards to the recent Oreti Cycleway, RMA
application, would add to that campaign. Bill said that the Commissioner’s comments on the natural
values of the Oreti River would also certainly apply to the remote valleys of the Whitestone &
Upukerora Rivers. The whole proposal was inconsistent with the Conservation Management Strategy
of the area and this was of concern.
Aparima River irrigation consent applications:
In regards to the recent surface water consent applications for the Aparima River, which had only
two monitoring sites and no gauge in the mid reaches, Peter asked if any progress had been made in
regards to having another gauge installed or further study done to approve the consent applications.
Jacob said that the installation of another gauge in the mid reaches was pretty slim at this time,
which made it difficult in terms of applying cut offs as surface water was being lost in those mid
reaches to ground water.
Maurice said that the water allocation in the Aparima was relatively low compared to the bigger
rivers. However with the current applications it was getting close to the level where, if a water
consent was required, applicants would have to do a more indepth study to show it would not have
an adverse effect. At the moment, if applicants complied with the Regional Water Plan and the take
was not more than the mean annual low flow then the consents would probably be granted.
Jacob noted that the Aparima to date was in a better position than say the Oreti as under the Water
Plan one of the critical aspects of a surface water take was the point at which the consent holder
was required to cease taking water during summer low flow periods. In the Oreti under the Water
Plan the cut off was 90% of adult brown trout habitat at mean annual low flow. In the Aparima, that
study had not been done, so they used the seven day mean annual low flow as the default position,
which was better from a Fish & Game point of view in terms of river management and health.
However Maurice said that ES had now done that research on the Aparima and a report was pending
for that.
“Around the Mountain” Cycleway:
The decision on the application for resource consent to construct the cycleway by the independent
Hearing Commissioner, Mr Denis Nugent, was released on 31st July following the joint hearing.
The Southland District Council was granted part consent for the construction/maintenance of the
140km cycleway but was declined consent for the section along the Upper Oreti Valley, between the
Mt Nicholas Road bridge to the proposed Oreti suspension bridge, amid concerns about the
potential for the development to adversely affect the environment. The decision was consistent with
the case Fish & Game presented. It was good news to the Fish & Game Council who were only
against the cycleway using that part of the Upper Oreti route and had suggested a good alternative
route down the Mararoa River Valley which provided for the protection of the outstanding fishery
and angling amenity values of the Upper Oreti, but still provided the opportunity to create a scenic
cycle trail.
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SFGC Minutes of the meeting held 9th August 2012
According to a newspaper article in the Southland Times on the 4th August the Southland District
Council would not appeal the decision and would look at the economic impact of the suggested
alternative Mararoa route. In the meantime the SDC would start construction on the MossburnLumsden to Kingston section of the trail using the Government’s funding of $4 million.
It was noted that Landcorp’s new National Manager, Property, was more open to the Mararoa
alternative than the Oreti option.
Licence fee increases:
The Southland Council had voted against a fish licence fee increase this year of more than the CPI
inflation rate. However we were outvoted by the majority nationally.
Peter said he was very concerned, as he could not see a future in the organisation continuing to
operate on a cost plus basis and increasing licence fees to cover that. He believed that the
organisation as a whole needed to severely look at and cut their budgets. Times were tough and at
some point licence sales would be affected. There were a lot of options for the recreational dollar
now.
Subgauge exemptions for non-toxic shot.
David White, Allan White Sports and Gerald McRae, Hamill’s Southland had been invited to the
meeting tonight so Council could hear their comments on the subgauge exemptions for non-toxic
shot from a sports industry/retailers point of view.
David White:
David thanked Council for the opportunity to provide his thoughts collated from many years in the
sports industry and his strong relationship with Fish & Game and most recently from seeing the
introduction of non-toxic shot for 12g shotguns.
 There had been a growth in 20g shotgun sales. Over the last two to three years growth had
been steady but was still a very small part of shotgun sales.
David believed the increase was from young hunters, 10-12yrs old, moving up from 410 to
20g semi auto shotguns (less recoil). Fish & Game needed to keep in mind if there was a
change to 20g ammunition (recoil increased by 30% when 12g changed to non-toxic shot)
the impact of the recoil on these up and coming very young hunters.
Some hunters could afford to spend money on the latest techno shotguns that had little
recoil, but most of the market was not buying in that price range, but were buying cheaper
guns which still had high recoil and this was why older people and the young were using 20g
shotguns.
There was also an increase (seen through the store) of females using 20g shotguns and with
older people having ongoing issues with using steel shot and were still struggling with the
change.
David was unsure that the increase in sales was from hunters just not wanting to use
12g steel. He had not seen that in his store.
 The majority of 20g users were opening weekend hunters only, so it was a short window
that effects might occur from a small minority.
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He would prefer the time management and expense of a 20g change put into bigger issues,
e.g. mallard research. Was the importance of the issue enough to warrant the change and
the expense it would incur?
He noted that the relationship between Fish & Game and its licence holders appeared to be
dwindling a little in his view.
There was a small percentage who still did not like steel and were very negative. Also over
the last couple of seasons it appeared hunter’s expectations and enjoyment had fallen off
slightly. The cost of the licence was becoming an issue to licence holders as Peter had
alluded to earlier.
Fish & Game were a business and perhaps the time and effort should be going into the bulk
of the licence holders before a smaller issue was dealt with.
He was not suggesting that the issue should not be looked into but believed that the impact
on the mallard population by ingesting lead was now minimal and needed the collation of
more information over the next few years to see how big a problem it actually was. He
suggested a careful slow approach was needed to the issue.
He commended the Southland Council for their commitment to fund $100,000 per year for
the next three years to mallard research, he hoped that other regions would follow and
contribute funding also. He was proud of the Southland region being referred to as the duck
capital of NZ and that Southland had instigated the national research.
With the Fish & Game upcoming elections this year he suggested that candidates who felt
strongly about the 20g exemption should express that view in their biography to gain the
support of those who had similar views.
David said that once a decision was made the sports industry would go with it and be
proactive as they did with the 12g transition. But he stressed that good communication with
licence holders was essential.
He suggested that to help smooth any transition it would be imperative that communication
about good things Fish & Game were doing was important. He suggested that publication of
the national mallard research funding by Southland would be a good thing for local hunters
to be aware of. David noted his industry role in helping licence holders to understand that
as well.
Gerald McRae:
 Gerald agreed with everything David had said.
 He wanted Council to make sure that there was a younger generation coming through, as
our future hunters, who could handle a 20g when they moved up from a 410.
 He said Hamills had put the fish licence fee on facebook and the majority of comments from
that were that the licence fee was value for money compared to overseas.
 He would like to see staff & councillors having a presence in store more to talk to licence
holders and clarify issues with them. It was good value to have that contact and vital to keep
communication going with licence holders. We did not want game hunting becoming an
elitist sport.
 He agreed a decision needed to be made in regards to 20g, but agreed with David that
Council needed to take it slowly and good communication was essential. He reiterated that
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SFGC Minutes of the meeting held 9th August 2012
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the older people were buying 20g in his store because of the recoil of 12g. The recoil issues
were important to them; it was a physical issue for older hunters.
What will happen to the 410g? Staff noted the small use of 410g and did not envisage their
popularity becoming significant and there were no viable alternatives at this time.
Why was lead being used for private goose culls over public waterways? This added to the
problems as hunters saw it, even though this was not related to Fish & Game or the 20g
issue. Canada geese were no longer a game bird.
Paul noted that nowadays there were really good ranges of steel 20g shotguns available with little
recoil that were great for youngsters learning & coming into the sport. With steel ammo they will
learn the sport and the ranges they could shoot and have respect for the game they were hunting
and the environment they lived in by knowing about not putting anything into the waterways that
had potential harm. Lead in waterways has been proven to be harmful, by poisoning of our
waterfowl from lead ingestion. Non-toxic shot in 12g was introduced for the good of the future of
the sport. The transition should have carried on through the gauges at that time, but due to various
reasons e.g. availability of ammo at that time, it did not. It was never intended to be a permanent
fixture. Steel ammo was readily available now and the cost for 20g steel ammo would come down.
Every year that we have another 5% of our licence holders using 20g shotguns with lead shot, when
the change was finally forced on us it would alienate more and more of our licence holders. There
were people committed to using lead and it was a hard decision to make, but it was essential. Paul
said that a transition could be managed to minimise effects. Eventually government will say to us
that if we can’t manage lead responsibly they will remove lead completely from all hunting e.g.
rabbits, upland game etc. and we did not want that to happen.
Stu noted that another issue with the use of 20g lead ammo was compliance. Compliance was being
severely compromised and he gave examples of that.
Gareth McRae:
 Duck hunting was an expensive sport this change was going to cost parents more money to
adapt guns for their kids and partners etc.
 Gareth had no objection to using steel shot and did use both a 12g and 20g purely the latter
for pheasant & quail, but Gareth thought a bigger issue for Fish & Game was the use of 8
shot extensions on 12g shotguns. That should be banned in his opinion as he believed it was
more detrimental to duck populations.
 He also stressed the need for good communication if a change was made.
 Clay bird ranges were another issue. Steel was not used there, why not?
The whole issue would be discussed again by NZC after the Fish & Game Regions had commented on
the letter from Southland requesting a review of the exemption however the current feeling in
Council was that it would not go any further.
Southland Council were very aware of the issue. Staff had observed a notable increase in 20g
shotguns while ranging in the field. It was not only females, older and younger hunters using them
but also keen hunters who, for whatever reason, believed that lead was better. There was concern
that would accelerate over time with more hunters moving that way. Magazines were advertising
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SFGC Minutes of the meeting held 9th August 2012
the 20g more and more and there was a general swell towards them. The barriers to change would
become higher and higher over time.
The other point was the higher number of prosecutions Southland took for the use of lead shot
compared to other regions. This was being compromised by the allowance of lead shot for subgauges.
The importance of firearm ownership needed to be included. Debates with organisations like SAFE,
DoC, Forest & Bird etc. had been successful in the past because we had been able to point out how
responsible we were with removing lead shot from the environment. Our credibility with working
with these organisations was also at risk.
After discussions the meeting agreed that it was essential from a management point of view to take
control of the issue of non-toxic shot exemptions for 20g shotguns and have a transition period
before it’s forced on us by Government, however there was not a national agreement on that.
Southland may have to do it on their own and lead the way by introducing it in Southland under local
regulations in the Game notice, which would highlight the issue to the Minister. We needed to signal
to licence holders now that we intended to put it in as a local regulation in three years time as a
transition process.
Bill suggested a laminated information sheet describing how lead poisoning affected waterfowl was
placed in sports stores as part of the communication process for a change. Some hunters did not
think it was an issue!
We need to keep lobbying for a change.
David, Gerald & Gareth then left the meeting (7.45pm) and were thanked by the Chairman for their
imput.
Resolved Stenning/Withington that the Southland Fish & Game Council indicate its intention to
formulate a phase in period for the use of non-toxic shot for all gauges, except 410g. Carried.
A letter would be sent to NZ Council indicating Southland’s intentions.
Rationale:
Southland was spending $300,000 over the next three years on research and protection of the
mallard populations. There was an increasing use of 20g shotguns by keen hunters other than the
young, older and female hunters, as staff had observed during game ranging. There was evidence
that 20g sales had grown suggesting an increasing use of lead shot rather than steel. We did not
want to see this accelerate over time and removing the exemption of non-toxic shot for 20g
shotguns over waterways was another step in continuing to protect our duck populations from
further lead poisoning. The initial exemption was always meant to be temporary, but the
momentum had been lost. We needed to take control of the issue before it became too large or we
were forced to by Government.
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SFGC Minutes of the meeting held 9th August 2012
There was also the issue of compliance and how it was being severely compromised with this
exemption. Southland had the largest number of prosecutions for the use of lead shot and were the
most vulnerable.
Also the credibility of Fish & Game to other organisations was also at risk. We did not want to see
lead being banned completely for all hunting, only over the waterways.
Southland Council wanted to remove the exemption for all gauges except 410g and now signalled
that intention to licence holders and NZC.
If there was no move nationally from Fish & Game to do that Southland Region were prepared to
make it a local regulation under the Game Gazette in three years time in a transition process.
Administration Reports:
The accounts paid, direct credit/debit list and automatic payments, correspondence reports and
licence sales progress were attached to the agenda for Council’s consideration.
Dept. of Conservation:
From the 1st July 2012 with the restructuring of DoC all RMA matters would be undertaken by DoC
staff in Christchurch, rather than in the Southland Conservancy.
Licence Sales progress:
Licence sales were progressing well with Game sales targets met and Fish sales very close to target
at 98.2%.
Staff reports:
The staff report was attached to the agenda.
Mallard Monitoring:
Matt McDougall had completed his Master of Science thesis on mallard management and this would
be incorporated in the mallard research proposals currently being developed.
Maurice pointed out two main things of interest that came out of it:
a) If you want to reduce harvest have a shorter season rather than reducing bag limits.
b) Management of mallards needed to be done on a geographical climate based region rather than
Fish & Game regions. Climate affected them most and the landscape they lived in.
Trout spawning surveys:
Surveys were disrupted a bit this year due to the wet early June. This mainly affected the Waimea
and the Waikaka. Surveys that were completed on other streams showed good numbers apart from
the Brightwater. Graphs were attached to the staff notes.
Waituna:
Approx. 100 trout had been caught in the Waituna Stream, each year over the last ten years. A graph
showed that the average size of the trout had not changed much over that time.
Drain maintenance had occurred in the stream and we had issues with ES over that work. Significant
amounts of gravel had been removed from a section which had reduced the abundance of trout
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SFGC Minutes of the meeting held 9th August 2012
spawning in that area. Zane was having a meeting with ES next week to discuss the drainage
maintenance issues.
A new consent for the opening of the Lagoon now allowed that the lagoon could be opened when
the nutrient conditions of the lagoon reached a dangerous state e.g. close to tipping. Previously it
could only be opened when the lagoon reached a certain height level.
Review of sections 6 and 7 of the Resource Management Act 1991
Maurice referred to the current review of the RMA and sections 6 & 7. An important part of the
Hearing Commissioner’s decision in relation to the “Around the Mountain” cycleway included those
sections of the RMA. With those sections under government review there was a serious concern that
the review may alter those clauses of the RMA which would leave Fish & Game in a much weaker
position in regards to many proposals.
Monowai Fish Pass:
An assessment of whether trout could negotiate the vertical slot fish pass between the lower
Monowai River and the Monowai Power Scheme head pond had been made by staff. Bill described
how this was done in the staff report. The trapped brown trout had successfully negotiated the pass
once they were placed in it but more work would be required to assess if fish readily entered the
pass voluntarily, which was crucial to the success of the fish pass.
Meridian Energy MoU and lower Waiau flushing flow protocol:
Fish & Game would continue periphyton monitoring under contract in the lower Waiau & Mararoa
Rivers over the summer. Meridian had agreed to provide flushing flows from mid-December through
to mid-March, with the possibility of an extra flush in April or May if natural events occurred during
the summer. However flushing flows were dependent on inflows to the Lake and if a dry year
occurred like last year no flushes would be provided. While an improvement on previous years this
was not ideal as Lake Manapouri needed to be fairly full to provide a flush of any significance as the
sill height at the MLC was too high and not designed for flushing flows. To lower the sill level was not
an option for Meridian at this time because of the high cost involved. (Multi million dollar).
Periphyton (didymo) levels when greater in the lower Waiau than the Mararoa was another trigger
for a flush but the Mararoa held two sites that had prolific didymo growth most of the time. This was
unfortunate but the agreement was subject to review.
Peter queried if the flushing flows would actually help the fish populations. Didymo had an effect on
the populations and the flushing flows were an exercise to keep didymo at acceptable levels so the
fish populations could recover back to what they were before didymo arrived.
Meridian were not compelled to provide flushes and we had to remember that. Flushes also helped
the Waiau Arm and the lower Waiau whitebait ponds as well. Riparian wetlands in the Waiau system
benefitted as well.
Compliance:
Prosecutions and results were listed in the staff report. The recent District Court prosecutions for
two Te Anau people had been very successful and the Manager congratulated staff involved with
that.
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New Zealand Council Issues:
Due to illness Bryce Johnson could not attend the meeting tonight.
Desired outcomes achievable by 2025:
NZ Council had developed a list of desired outcomes that could be achieved by 2025 as a result of
the strategic planning sessions held in February 2012. The Regional Fish & Game Councils were
asked to consider the list of desired outcomes and accord each a priority 1,2 or 3 with 1 being the
highest priority. These were circulated with the agenda for each Councillor to fill out and return to
Peter Sutton to advise NZC of its findings.
Public excluded sessions:
Peter reported that the NZC had their meeting on the 20th July 2012 at Wellington. The meeting
began at 9.30am and from 9.45am to 1.00pm the meeting went into public excluded session.
This was extremely disappointing to Peter Sutton who actually left the meeting because of it.
There was a general feeling within the Southland Council that all these public excluded sessions
were contributing to the unresolveability of certain issues and they generally disapproved of the
amount of time NZC spent in public excluded sessions which seemed to only prolong the problems
and resulted in non-productive business. Perhaps if they were in an open forum they could be
resolved better. There seemed to be a lot of time spent in these sessions. John Purey-Cust had sent
an email noting his disapproval as well at the number of public excluded sessions.
After discussions
Resolved Stenning /Hartstonge that a letter be sent from Southland Council to NZC noting their
disapproval of the numbers of public excluded sessions which resulted in non-productive business
occurring. Carried.
Rationale:
It was agreed that there were so many good things happening in Fish and Game and we should be
concentrating on those good things and getting on with them. This was all very non-productive and
Southland Council generally were very displeased with the lack of progress on national issues due to
the continuation of these public excluded sessions at the NZC meetings.
Non Resident Angling Licence proposal.
The proposed Non Resident Fishing Licence had been well supported by Fish & Game Regions and
could well be introduced in the 2013/2014 fishing season.
Review of National Office:
Reading from the NZC Minutes the Southland Council discussed the matter of an ongoing call for a
review of National Office and agreed that the Southland Council should write to the individual
regions concerned asking why their representatives had voted for this action which seemed entirely
without justification to us and extremely negative to the organisation. Asking them to please explain
why their representatives voted in this way.
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SFGC Minutes of the meeting held 9th August 2012
Resolved Gilroy/Stenning that the Southland Council write to the individual regions concerned
asking why this review was being called for with a copy to be sent to NZC. Carried.
General Business:
Tauranga Harbour swan hunt:
John Purey-Cust referred, in an email, to the annual swan hunt held in the Tauranga Harbour and the
resulting media attention and public outcry it generated. Peter clarified that the hunt was not
organised by the Fish & Game NZ organisation but by an independent local fish and game club.
Conflicts of Interest:
Maurice had attached to the agenda a summary of guidelines from the Office of the Auditor General
in Managing conflicts of interest: Guidance for public entities, for Councillors information.
Elections 2012:
Peter reminded Councillors of the upcoming Fish & Game elections to be held in November 2012
and urged them to persuade any others to stand for Council if they thought they had a genuine
interest in the organisation. Some regions have not had elections for many years which was not
healthy for the organisation as a whole.
There was no further business and the meeting was closed at 9.05pm.
Chairman _______________________________Date_____________________________
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