Orange Creek Basin Herbicide Workshop Q & A
Format
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Question
o Answer
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Where does the Corp of Engineers fit in?
o Corp of Engineers issues ERP permits for mechanical control
Does EPA ever fund herbicide registration?
o EPA does not provide funds for the development of herbicides.
What is the role EPA plays in importing materials produced overseas.
o Materials imported from overseas are held to the same standard as material produced
here.
Are people around the lake going to be informed about when treatments occur and what
herbicides are being used?
o Yes, FWC has this information on our website and this website will be provided to the
public. This website has the workplan for the year and last three scheduled treatment.
Here is a link to that website:
https://public.myfwc.com/HSC/PMARS/waterbodySchedule.aspx.
My main concern is the effect of herbicides on fish and wildlife. I would rather you leave the
lake alone.
Are registration studies funded by applicants?
o Yes applicants must submit studies that they run under Good Lab Practices.
What is the check system, are studies replicated.
o EPA does not conduct studies but do monitor lab practices of applicants.
Addressing a comment in your presentation, if you are spraying doesn’t it grow back unlike
mechanical control?
o Comment was trying to speak to the time frame needed to treat with herbicide vs
mechanical control given the scale of the issue. With mechanical control the growth of
the plant is faster than control.
Where does treated vegetation go?
o Showed water hyacinth that was cold stressed showing how plants are constantly
putting down organic matter, but if you treat one time that plant can no longer put
down organic matter. Open water increases aerobic microbial activity which aids in
breaking down organic matter. Orange Lake has a historic organic layer and will
continue to be a productive system so dropping organics is not as much of a concern.
If money was not an option what is best option for management.
o Depends on what your target is and the scope/scale. Herbicide control would still be a
large proponent of control techniques and mechanical control would be used when
applicable. Harvesters are not benign, there is also mortality to fish and wildlife
associated with using harvesters.
What about bird nests.
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This is speculative depending on how quickly plants die. With any management activity,
or lack of activity there will be positive and negative effects. Treatments are typically
scheduled to avoid bird nesting seasons.
Do these herbicides bio accumulate in fish?
o Compounds with high water solubility, such as aquatic registered herbicides, do not bio
accumulate in animal tissue. The herbicides registered for aquatic use do not bio
accumulate and if they did then they would not have an aquatic registration.
I am concerned about my well water, could you set up a study when you spray?
o Study could be done though this might be done by EPA or DEP. FWC will investigate the
feasibility of this study. It should be noted though given the amount of herbicide used
in treatment, how quickly most herbicides break down in water, the volume of water in
the lake and aquifer, it would be unlikely that we would detect any herbicide in wells
adjacent to Orange Lake.
Is there a legal definition for the term “reasonable adverse effects”
o Yes there is a legal definition located at the FIFRA website, definitions under section 2.
Residue on food registration is based solely on risk. Referred back to presentation on
Federal registration. https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/7/136
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The term “unreasonable adverse effects on the environment” means (1) any
unreasonable risk to man or the environment, taking into account the economic,
social, and environmental costs and benefits of the use of any pesticide, or (2) a
human dietary risk from residues that result from a use of a pesticide in or on
any food inconsistent with the standard under section 346a of title 21. The
Administrator shall consider the risks and benefits of public health pesticides
separate from the risks and benefits of other pesticides. In weighing any
regulatory action concerning a public health pesticide under this subchapter, the
Administrator shall weigh any risks of the pesticide against the health risks such
as the diseases transmitted by the vector to be controlled by the pesticide.
Will there ever be an end to spraying and or mechanical control?
o Would like to see an end point but given real world scenario of flood/drought cycles and
invasive plant management there will always be a need for management.
Will there an end to herbicide use.
o If we eradicate all invasive plants then yes but that is not a real world scenario. Orange
Lake in particular is extremely productive and in order to provide quality wildlife habitat
and recreational opportunities to stakeholders at large then management is necessary.
Surprised to see 2,4-D on list. Not allowed in Canada. Any input?
o 2,4-D can be used on federal lands and just went through re-registration. One problem
is some plants are extremely sensitive to 2,4-D, tomatoes are an example.
I cannot use 2,4-D in New York. Is there a planned acreage amount for this upcoming year?
o There is not any significant acreage for treatment in the workplan for this Fiscal Year,
only maintenance treatment of invasive floating plants (water hyacinth/water lettuce)
and maintaining access points at Mike’s Fish Camp and Marjorie Kinnan Rawlins using a
mechanical shredder. Next year’s workplan is currently in development.
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Statement by Stakeholder: As a professional applicator I urge integrated management which
includes mechanical control whenever possible.
Statement by Matt Phillips: A Workplan is what The Invasive Plant Management Subsection may fund
and what herbicides would be used in a fiscal year. What is actually done can change depending on
conditions but any changes are noted in FWC’s reporting system. This basically functions as a funding
space holder for the next year. This information can be found at:
https://public.myfwc.com/HSC/PMARS/waterbodySchedule.aspx. What work that will actually be
carried out will be vetted out through our Stakeholder Engagement Process.
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Is there anywhere these plants can be sold. Can the muck be used for farming? Is there any
financial use for organic material?
o Not aware of any programs that exist to purchase plants.
o Selling muck is cost prohibitive due to existing seed source, and funds needed to make it
usable by farms.
Why are the ramps that FWC were supposed keep open, not open?
o Patrick – I am on the lake 3-4 time a week and Mike’s Fish Camp has been open more
than not, but due to wind direction on a given day it can block up and we will address it
when winds are suitable. Mechanical shredders have been used to keep MKR/Cross
Creek and Mike’s open. When there is a westerly wind Mike’s should be open and vice
versa. If a ramp is blocked and there is an appropriate wind the ramps will be opened.
Secondary trails have been difficult given the scope of the issue. If you are at the lake
and see that Mike’s Fish Camp or Marjorie Kinnan Rawlins are blocked please contact
Dan Dorosheff at 386-758-0525
Is the assumption that if I launch my boat and go out and the lane is open you still may not get
back.
o Boaters must be mindful of wind directions and be careful when they are out on the
lake. Due to the large amount of floating tussock still on the lake and variable winds
blockages can occur.
Dan Dorosheff Statement: Please contact me if there are blockages and we can work to address
them. Our intent is to do our best to keep those lane open.
What are the plans for Heagy Burry Park?
o Marion County is still pursuing updates to the park. For more information contact Jim
Couillard with Marion County at 352-671-8560
Why do we have floating tussock, seems like they have always been on Orange but not
Lochloosa.
o Orange lake has supported floating islands for many years, there are historical
references to floating islands. There is a difference between the two lakes in sediment
types. Orange Lake has much deeper organic material and a direct connection to
sinkholes. Therefore during drought Orange Lake goes lower exposing more of this rich
organic material which grows plants. When the lake refills these plants become buoyant
and float on the surface of the water.
Why didn’t you spray and kill vegetation when the lake was dry.
o This is hypothetical that that action would have been effective. We would have had to
maintain no vegetation over 7-8 thousand acres of wetland for over a year.
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If there is overspray how does it affect the water?
o Looking at the very low concentration range (ppb range) which is well under toxic levels,
even for vegetation. You then have to consider dissolution and herbicide breakdown.
We would not expect to see any impacts to submerged aquatic vegetation on emergent
treatments due to incidental overspray.
Do plants treated with herbicide degrade faster than plants that die naturally?
o Dependent on water chemistry variables and contents of the plant body (ie woody vs
herbaceous and aerobic vs anaerobic degradation).
 Dissolved Oxygen (DO) is usually a concern in high temperature environments.
However given that there is little DO under these large floating mats of
vegetation, the scale of floating plant mats, and how slowly these plants would
degrade there would not likely be a large oxygen demand if floating mats were
treated.
How will these herbicides be applied and what is the boundary.
o Several methods dependent on what and how much you are treating. Most treatments
are done with airboats. Aerial treatments would be for large acreage treatments.
Pete Spyke Statement: Spoke about how lake used to burn and that would have controlled muck
layers. This is not used anymore because of safety issues caused by smoke on roadways.
Management is a response to dry down and refill not necessarily yearly management.
Management is not disallowing Mother Nature to express herself. Thank you.
Why haven’t you done the massive spraying if it is so safe?
o The proposed aerial application that was proposed in the fall of 2013 was not
undertaken due to stakeholder concerns/pushback not because of a doubt in the safety
or effectiveness of the treatment. One of the goals of this workshop is to educate
stakeholders about the herbicides that FWC uses and what are the risks/benefits of
using herbicide.
Allen Martin Statement: We have a lot of diverse stakeholders we are working with towards a
Habitat Management Plan. Stakeholders should keep in mind that the workplans mentioned
tonight are to schedule funding put together by biological staff. There is still a lot in the air as
far as what work will be undertaken. We know the tools that are available to us and the
benefits/limitations, but we need stakeholder input to draft a plan of what is actually done on
the lake. Tonight was a part of that process to inform stakeholders about the products we use.
Information from this meeting and other information about Orange Lake is available at the
Orange Creek Basin WordPress site. There is not an existing plan for large scale herbicide
treatment. Stick with us in this process, we are looking to engage with stakeholders and form
the best possible solutions.
How long till big spraying
o This is still undetermined because we are still in the beginning stages of our stakeholder
engagement process to draft a habitat management plan for Orange Lake.
Thank you