NERF Nursing Oral History Project 1950s/1960s
Abstract
Marjorie Crawford
Recorded:
Interviewer:
Abstracter:
Equipment type:
18 JUN 2013
Debbie Dunsford
Debbie Dunsford
Fostex FR-2LE Digital
Recorder
File: 1 of 7
1. Marjorie Crawford, Graduation
Day, Waikato Hospital, 1967.
2. L-R, Gertrude Crawford, Marjorie
Crawford, John Crawford,
Graduation Day, Waikato Hospital,
1967.
Photos: W A & M Hansen, 34
Graham Street, Hamilton East.
Photo 2
Photo 1
000'05"
INTRODUCTION & FAMILY
MARJORIE [MARJ] RAE CRAWFORD born MT EDEN, AUCKLAND, on 24
November 1944. Father was JOHN IRVINE CRAWFORD owned a GLASS
BUSINESS. Marj's brothers joined father in business. Father had been a
(COMMERCIAL) TRAVELLER for R & E TINGEY LTD. Father played OUTDOOR
BOWLS and involved in ATHLETICS CLUB, MASONIC LODGE.
Mother was GERTRUDE JANE ELLERY, born 26 September 1913. Paternal
grandfather born in IRELAND. Maternal family originally from ENGLAND. Mother
was a REGISTERED NURSE. Recalls always wanting to be as capable as her
mother and thinks desire to be a nurse herself stemmed from that.
Family involvement with SCOUTING MOVEMENT. Recalls accident at SCOUT
camp at ORERE POINT and mother's NURSING skills. Sister also became a
nurse. Mother trained and then worked at AUCKLAND HOSPITAL until her
MARRIAGE. Mother involved in AUCKLAND FLORAL SOCIETY, GREYFRIARS
PRESBYTERIAN CHURCH activities. Family's STANDARD OF LIVING. Describes.
Recounts instance of mother's ability to save and being able to purchase a piece
of equipment for the family business. Refers SEWING, BOTTLING FRUIT.
009'50"
EPSOM GIRLS' GRAMMAR SCHOOL
Academic ability. Describes. Refers SCHOOL CERTIFICATE, SPORT, HOUSE
CAPTAIN, UNIVERSITY ENTRANCE. Returned to school for the '6A' year (now
year 13) 'we all went back for sport mainly. The first time 6A had won any of
the sporting competitions'. Describes. Refers HOCKEY, TENNIS, SWIMMING,
NETBALL. Left school at 18 years old.
Admiration for mother main reason for wanting to become a nurse. Options for
girls leaving school were mostly UNIVERSITY, SECRETARIAL, TEACHING or
NURSING. Nursing would be a useful career for TRAVEL. Parental support.
018'55"
PRELIMINARY SCHOOL, AUCKLAND
Began nursing January 1963 at 18 years old. Applied AUCKLAND SCHOOL OF
NURSING. Knew some other girls at PRELIMINARY SCHOOL. Rooms at NURSES'
1
NERF Nursing Oral History Project 1950s/1960s
Abstract
Marjorie Crawford
HOME 'dark and dreary'. Describes 'stiff, starched cotton' hats. Thinks class all
PAKEHA, some from out of AUCKLAND.
UNIFORMS. Difficult to change uniforms when a student nurse and go for lunch
in 30 minutes. Describes. Refers INFECTION PREVENTION, CHRISTCHURCH
HOSPITAL NURSES' UNIFORM.
028'00"
PRELIMINARY SCHOOL
Lectures, practical work in mock hospital ward. Refers MRS CHASE (model). On
wards, many sisters had very specific requirements and rules. Describes. Choice
of hospital after three months. Refers AUCKLAND, GREEN LANE, MIDDLEMORE.
031'40"
WARD WORK
Recalls being JUNIOR NURSE on CHILDREN'S WARD at PRINCESS MARY BLOCK.
Recounts giving a male patient a URINAL for the first time. Comments on
CONVIVIAL ATMOSPHERE. Took temperatures. Recalls instance of a nurse
putting thermometers in sterilizer. Delivered patient MEALS. Made beds, bed
baths, cleaning with chemico or eureka at WAIKATO 'Have you Eureka'ed the
bowls?'
HIERARCHY of nursing staff supervised the one below. Learned TEAMWORK.
Staff nurse did drugs. Ward sister's job was to know about every patient.
Compares to current practice.
042'00"
CURRICULUM, STUDY AND EXAMS
TUTOR SISTERS and CURRICULUM. Expectations seemed too much at times
'but we coped'. EXAMS and STUDY DAYS.
044'45"
WAIKATO HOSPITAL
Resigned from AUCKLAND and moved to WAIKATO HOSPITAL in first year of
training. 'Best thing that ever happened.' Discusses. 'In Hamilton, you had to
make your own fun.' Refers FRIENDSHIPS. NURSING HIERARCHY in AUCKLAND
out of touch with young nurses. GENERATIONAL SHIFT. Fitted into WAIKATO
first year class easily.
First unsupervised injection. Describes. [Rain in background] Experience of
DEATH. Describes. EMOTIONAL RESPONSE and lack of preparation. First
delivery, stillborn baby and lack of support for mother. Describes. Recalls
patients at WAIKATO HOSPITAL. Describes. Refers MAORI, GEOGRAPHIC AREA,
OBSTETRICS, TB (TUBERCULOSIS). Refers AUCKLAND HOSPITAL, LEPROSY,
POLIO(MYELITIS), MRS MEADY, IRON LUNG, SPECIALING, PATIENT-NURSE
RELATIONSHIP. Refers long-term TUBERCULOSIS patients at WAIKATO
HOSPITAL, farming ACCIDENTS. Recalls MR MOON (ELDERLY MAORI PATIENT)
and 'BLACKIE' (young MAORI boy). Both wrote letters to Marj after she left.
PATIENT-NURSE RELATIONSHIP.
Reduction in STERILISING duties with CSSD (CENTRAL STERILE SUPPLY
DEPARTMENT), centralised URINE TESTING, cardboard bedpans. Lifting of
patients. Instance of extremely busy NIGHT SHIFT on MEN'S SURGICAL WARD.
Had to cope. Refers STAFF NURSE BALDWIN, 'BALDY', NIGHT SNOOP.
Describes.
FILE ENDS 65 minutes 19 seconds.
2
NERF Nursing Oral History Project 1950s/1960s
Abstract
Marjorie Crawford
Recorded:
Interviewer:
Abstracter:
Equipment type:
18 JUN 2013
Debbie Dunsford
Debbie Dunsford
Fostex FR-2LE Digital
Recorder
File: 2 of 7
000'05"
NURSES' HOME
Accommodation in NURSES' HOME. Describes. Refers WAIKATO HOSPITAL,
HILDA ROSS BUILDING. Camaraderie and EMOTIONAL SUPPORT. Describes.
DINING ROOM and MEALS. Describes. 'Corned beef and cabbage on a Tuesday.'
Protocol of standing up if someone more senior than you entered the room.
Describes [HIERARCHY, FORMALITY]. LAUNDRY arrangements. Describes.
Refers UNIFORMS. Recalls one ward sister who was obsessed with cleanliness.
Refers OBSESSIVE COMPULSIVE DISORDER, 'FLUFF'.
007'45"
NURSES' HOME
Late leave and staying out late. Describes. [Rain in background] Recounts
incident where nurse found to be absent. Refers NIGHT SISTER, 'ROBBIE',
DISCIPLINE.
HOME SISTER was an administrative role. Describes. 'The mother figure'.
VISITORS. Family, boyfriends, resident doctors. Describes. Parties at
LINDISFARNE, MEDICAL RESIDENCE. Student nurses allowed to go FLATTING
from second year with parents' permission. Describes.
FILE ENDS 15 minutes 24 seconds.
3
NERF Nursing Oral History Project 1950s/1960s
Abstract
Marjorie Crawford
Recorded:
Interviewer:
Abstracter:
Equipment type:
18 JUN 2013
Debbie Dunsford
Debbie Dunsford
Fostex FR-2LE Digital
Recorder
File: 3 of 7
000'05"
FLATTING
Cost of paying RENT shared between four. 'It was like playing house. And it was
a good experience for us.' BUDGETING. Describes. Flat burgled twice. Recounts.
PARTIES. Recounts using taxi company as an alarm clock for morning shift.
Describes TOGA PARTY, HUNT BALLS, NURSES' BALLS, GRADUATION BALLS.
Some sewed ball dresses, shared clothes. Describes.
006'05"
FRIENDSHIPS
GROUP DYNAMICS. Describes. Socialised and went on HOLIDAYS together.
Describes. Refers SOUTH ISLAND, WELLINGTON, HUNTERVILLE, WAIHI BEACH,
RAGLAN, MORRIE [MORRIS] 8 CAR. Some girls not as sociable.
No HOMESICKness because close enough to AUCKLAND to keep contact. 'When
I had my 21st, I think half of HAMILTON came to AUCKLAND.' Describes.
010'01"
SENIOR NURSES AND DOCTORS
Recalls RELATIONSHIPS between trainees and staff nurses. Some WARD
SISTERS could be demanding about 'absurd things'. Recalls not being able to
leave the ward at end of shift until everything checked. Reflects.
WARD RELATIONSHIP with DOCTORS. Difference NIGHT and DAY DUTIES.
Does not recall MALE NURSES during training.
014'11"
SOCIAL LIFE
Went regularly to POLO at CAMBRIDGE, HUNT BALLS. Parties at 'OHAUPO
ROAD' (their flat). Refers WATSON FAMILY. Describes wider social group and
ongoing relationships.
Went to the PUB. Thinks drank LAGER, SHANDY, SHERRY. ALCOHOL not
important to them. Some drunkenness. Recalls NIGHT DUTY NURSE in a
RESTHOME in AUCKLAND with an ALCOHOL problem.
SHOPPING in AUCKLAND. Recalls buying coat 'on appro'. Coffee bars in
HAMILTON, occasional meals at a hotel dining room.
No trouble keeping up with AUCKLAND friends. Recalls how kept in touch over
years.
025'21"
HOSPITAL EVENTS
CHRISTMAS CAROL SINGING. Describes. Refers CHRISTMAS CAROLS, PARTY,
LINDISFARNE, MATRON, PATIENTS. CHRISTMAS DAY. Describes. [Rain in
background]
028'56"
SMOKING
Every nurse and doctor smoked. Recounts learning to smoke with a packet of
4
NERF Nursing Oral History Project 1950s/1960s
Abstract
Marjorie Crawford
PETER STUYVESANT cigarettes. Refers PEER PRESSURE, HABIT. Could not
smoke in UNIFORM. No awareness of HEALTH CONCERNS.
031'41"
BOYFRIENDS AND INTIMATE RELATIONSHIPS
Not so much pressure for SEXUAL RELATIONSHIPS. Recalls INNOCENCE at the
time.
STEADY BOYFRIEND visited regularly from AUCKLAND. Describes.
ENGAGEMENTS during training and some left nursing. Describes. [Rain in
background]
Not aware of LESBIAN RELATIONSHIPS between nurses.
FILE ENDS 36 minutes 03 seconds
5
NERF Nursing Oral History Project 1950s/1960s
Abstract
Marjorie Crawford
Recorded:
Interviewer:
Abstracter:
Equipment type:
18 JUN 2013
Debbie Dunsford
Debbie Dunsford
Fostex FR-2LE Digital
Recorder
File: 4 of 7
000'05"
INTIMATE RELATIONSHIPS
Recalls some conjecture about LESBIAN RELATIONSHIP between SENIOR
NURSES who lived together. No rules about sharing bedrooms.
Reasons for leaving nursing during training could include PREGNANCY.
Discusses class attrition rate at WAIKATO HOSPITAL.
003'20"
SPORT
Continued to play SPORT but team sports could be difficult. Refers HOCKEY,
TENNIS, SQUASH. Recalls SWIMMING SPORTS at AUCKLAND HOSPITAL,
SWIMMING POOL at WAIKATO HOSPITAL. Played INDOOR BASKETBALL at
YMCA or YWCA. Describes.
005'30"
CHURCH
Attended CHURCH occasionally. Some nurses were very active CHRISTIANS.
006'09"
SICKNESS
HOME SISTER, SICK BAY. Relates incident where two faked injuries. Attended
SICK PARADE and DEPUTY MATRON, [AILSA] McCUTCHEON drove them home
to flat. Feelings of letting people down. If very sick, nurses admitted to a ward.
010'45"
NURSES' ASSOCIATIONS
Not part of STUDENT NURSES' ASSOCIATION and no real awareness of
REGISTERED NURSES' ASSOCIATION while training.
011'25"
PAY
Reads from Service Record.
Staff Nurse's rate 1,960 pounds per annum (1964-1967).
Staff Sister's rate $3,555 per annum (1970-1972).
St Helen's Student Midwife $4,171 per annum.
$6,862 per annum (1978).
$15,000 per annum (1981).
Never worried about not having sufficient money. Accepted pay as part of
nursing.
015'30"
FINAL EXAM
Determined to pass final EXAM. GRADUATION CEREMONY at WAIKATO
HOSPITAL.
FILE ENDS 16 minutes 47 seconds.
6
NERF Nursing Oral History Project 1950s/1960s
Abstract
Marjorie Crawford
Recorded:
Interviewer:
Abstracter:
Equipment type:
25 JUN 2013
Debbie Dunsford
Debbie Dunsford
Fostex FR-2LE Digital
Recorder
File: 5 of 7
000'05"
WORKING HOURS
Worked hard and for long hours. SHIFTS and rosters. Short changes. Describes.
Received 5 pounds per week. Seemed sufficient. Describes.
OBSTETRIC training at CORNWALL HOSPITAL within PRELIMINARY TRAINING.
Describes. Refers PERINEAL WASHES.
MEN'S SURGICAL WARD. Describes. Refers 'soap and water enemas', 'collies'
[CHOLECYSTECTOMY], PROSTATECTOMY.
007'25"
FINAL EXAM
Recounts ward experience of friend who had passed final examination. Staff
nurse removed her own epaulets and gave them to friend to wear for the duty.
Refers VON [YVONNE WOODWARD]. After qualified became aware of how much
they did not know.
009'37"
GRADUATION
Recalls GRADUATION CEREMONY and GRADUATION BALL. Describes. Refers
JOE MEAD (MEDICAL SUPERINTENDENT), RIVERLEA RECEPTION LOUNGE,
BLACKBERRY NIP, SCREWDRIVER, PIMMS, HORSE'S NECK, LINDISFARNE.
014'30"
WORK AS A STAFF NURSE
Worked at WAIKATO HOSPITAL after graduating. Agreed to do NIGHT DUTY.
Sleep. Describes. Refers NIGHT SNOOP, INTENSIVE CARE. Worked PAEDIATRIC
and MEN'S ORTHOPAEDIC WARD. Left after one year and travelled to
ENGLAND.
DUTIES as STAFF NURSE. Opportunity for initiative. Describes. Refers TRAUMA
CASES, ROAD ACCIDENTS, EQUIPMENT, INTENSIVE CARE.
Reasons for nurses leaving after graduation. Describes.
022'42"
TRAVEL TO AND WORK IN ENGLAND
Describes TRAVEL to ENGLAND with or to meet other nurses. Refers SS
NORTHERN STAR, TAHITI. WORK in ENGLAND. Refers GLOUCESTERSHIRE,
LONDON. PRIVATE NURSE WORK. A 'glorified granddaughter' to an older
couple. Describes. Refers CANCER, JAPANESE ART, RUSSIAN, EGYPTIAN,
VICTORIA AND ALBERT MUSEUM, MRS HARARI. Flat in CLAPHAM. 'It took
weeks to pluck up the courage to tell Mother and Father I was in a mixed flat.'
Describes. Wrote aerogram to parents weekly. PAY.
Trips to EUROPE. Refers HOLLAND, GREECE, TURKEY, LUXEMBOURG.
AGENCY NURSING. Recalls instance of poor equipment in a private clinic. Refers
INTENSIVE CARE. ROYAL FREE HOSPITAL, HAMPSTEAD. Describes work. Refers
TAPE WORM, CHOLECYSTECTOMY.
Reflects on premonitions of DEATH. Refers [ELIZABETH] KUBLER-ROSS.
7
NERF Nursing Oral History Project 1950s/1960s
Abstract
Marjorie Crawford
REPUTATION of NZ NURSES in ENGLAND. Describes.
040'53"
WORK IN NZ
Returned NZ in 1970. Worked in MEDICAL UNIT, Ward 4, in AUCKLAND
HOSPITAL. Aware of DRUG USE in ENGLAND and became interested in that area
of work. Describes. Refers HEROIN, NARCOTICS, DOPE, POLICE FORCE, DRUG
SQUAD, SOCIAL PROBLEMS, SEXUAL ABUSE, EMOTIONAL ABUSE.
STAFF SISTER in MEDICAL UNIT. Refers PROF NORTH, DIALYSIS, RENAL
FAILURE, MAORI, PACIFIC ISLANDERS. Describes DIALYSIS equipment and
treatment.
050'30"
MIDWIFERY TRAINING, ST HELEN'S HOSPITAL
MIDWIFERY TRAINING for 6 months at ST HELEN'S HOSPITAL, MT ALBERT,
then worked there for 6 months. Also enrolled UNIVERSITY OF AUCKLAND for
BACHELOR OF ARTS DEGREE. Describes how able to study and work.
MIDWIFERY TRAINING enjoyable because mothers not usually sick. Structure of
MIDWIFERY TRAINING. Describes. Difficulty of being a STUDENT NURSE again.
'No delivery is normal until after the event.' Enjoyed working with MIDWIVES.
Recalls satisfaction of giving better knowledge of birth process to a mother.
Recalls no MATERNAL DEATHS but some STILLBIRTHS. Recalls STILLBIRTH
while training and felt as a student she was not able to deal adequately with the
mother. EMOTIONAL RESPONSES.
059'08"
STUDY FOR DEGREE
Studied SOCIOLOGY part-time out of interest. Went full-time one year. Refers
EDUCATION, PSYCHOLOGY, ANTHROPOLOGY. Describes.
060'55"
CATHEDRAL DRUG CLINIC, CARRINGTON HOSPITAL
Law change meant GENERAL PRACTITIONERS could not prescribe METHADONE
to known DRUG ADDICTS. Had to register at DRUG CLINIC. PUBLIC
AWARENESS of DRUG ADDICTION. MEDIA and POLICE attitudes to DRUG
ADDICTION different to those of people working with individual addicts. Refers
REGISTERED NURSES, SOCIAL WORKERS, PSYCHOLOGISTS, DR FRASER
MCDONALD. Describes work. Refers PETHADINE, RITALIN, HEROIN,
MORPHINE. Explains properties of METHODONE.
About 250 addicts at one stage. From all sections of society. Describes.
WELFARE.
[Phone rings]
FILE ENDS 67 minutes 44 seconds.
8
NERF Nursing Oral History Project 1950s/1960s
Abstract
Marjorie Crawford
Recorded:
Interviewer:
Abstracter:
Equipment type:
25 JUN 2013
Debbie Dunsford
Debbie Dunsford
Fostex FR-2LE Digital
Recorder
File: 6 of 7
000'05"
CATHEDRAL DRUG CLINIC, CARRINGTON HOSPITAL
Some opposition to clinic by neighbours. Recounts incident when clinic and
chemist shop broken into. Refers NEWMARKET, POLICE. Role and duties at
clinic. Describes. Refers FRASER MCDONALD, CARRINGTON HOSPITAL. In
dealing with addicts, 'you really had to be tough. You had to have a warm heart
and a tough head'. Background of some DRUG ADDICTS. Discusses.
006'27"
PUBLIC HEALTH NURSE, PONSONBY
PONSONBY area a PUBLIC HEALTH challenge in 1970s. Describes. Refers
HOUSING, PACIFIC ISLAND PEOPLE, MAORI, TB (TUBERCULOSIS), J-TEAM
(JUVENILE), SCHOOL CLINICS, PLUNKET. Marj always referred to AUCKLAND
office of DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH as 'the Kremlin' (the BLEDISLOE BUILDING,
WELLESLEY STREET).
Marj's PUBLIC HEALTH work written about in NZ HERALD. Reflects on value of
the work. Reasons for leaving. Describes.
012'15"
SOCIAL WORKER, ST HELEN'S HOSPITAL
Became SOCIAL WORKER at ST HELEN'S HOSPITAL. Reflects on range of skills.
Refers OBSTETRICS, SOCIAL ISSUES, DRUG ADDICTS. Babies being born to
DRUG ADDICTS. Describes.
015'05"
BACHELOR OF SOCIOLOGY
Year of full time STUDY in 1978. Graduated 1980. Received FLORENCE
NIGHTINGALE AWARD to help with study costs. Juggling study and work.
Describes.
018'30"
ODYSSEY HOUSE
Worked at DRUG CLINIC in GREAT NORTH ROAD. Search for alternatives to
METHODONE treatment for DRUG ADDICTS.
ODYSSEY HOUSE programme. Describes visit to SYDNEY. Refers DR JUDIANNE
DENSON-GERBER, CAMPBELLTOWN, NEW YORK. 'I came back to Auckland
absolutely bursting with enthusiasm and information'. Battle and personal
commitment to establish ODYSSEY HOUSE in AUCKLAND as a 'drug-free
therapeutic community'. Describes. Refers FRASER MCDONALD, ODYSSEY
HOUSE TRUST.
Attended International Directors' Retreat. Refers NEW YORK, DETROIT, UTAH.
Started in rented house at ROSE ROAD, GREY LYNN. DRUG ADDICTS quickly
came. Recounts story of urine samples being swapped.
GOVERNMENT FUNDING eventually. Describes. Refers HEALTH DEPARTMENT,
JUSTICE DEPARTMENT, JIM MCLAY, ST STEPHEN'S AVENUE. Local opposition to
location. Describes. Ongoing funding could be difficult. Refers SOCIAL WELFARE
(now WINZ). ASB (TRUST) gave $1 million to buy house. Refers BOLLARD
ROAD, MT EDEN ROAD. Marj was DIRECTOR. Benefits of having ex-addicts
working with addicts. Describes.
9
NERF Nursing Oral History Project 1950s/1960s
Abstract
Marjorie Crawford
Structure of ODYSSEY HOUSE programme. Successes and failures. Describes.
Refers JUDIANNE DENSON-GERBER, We mainline dreams. Refers 'P', COCAINE,
ALCOHOL, AA (ALCOHOLICS ANONYMOUS), NA (NARCOTICS ANONYMOUS).
034'45"
NURSE, MT EDEN PRISON
Exhausted by work at ODYSSEY HOUSE. Many drug-abusing inmates at MT
EDEN PRISON. Difficulties with prison staff. Recounts incident of prisoner
protecting Marj. Left after six months. Refers METHODONE, MEDICAL UNIT.
039'32"
ONGOING WORK / AUT PSYCHIATRIC NURSING
Fill-in work in locum PUBLIC HEALTH, TAKAPUNA. Period of not working. Played
GOLF.
Enrolled at AUT to do bridging PSYCH course for comprehensive nurse
qualification. 'It was an absolute waste of time.' Already had SOCIOLOGY degree
but received no credit. Qualification needed in order to return to work at DRUG
CLINIC. Describes.
Retired and played GOLF.
044'35"
MEDICAL RESEARCH PROJECTS
PROJECT MANAGER/NURSE for PROMISE STUDY (POSSIBLE ROLE OF
MELATONIN IN SLEEP OF THE ELDERLY). Describes aspects of study. Refers
NORTH SHORE (HOSPITAL), GERIATRIC UNIT, PHIL WOOD, JONATHAN
BASKETT, JO BROAD.
QUALITY OF HEALTH CARE NEW ZEALAND PROJECT. Refers PETER DAVIS.
Travelled to different hospitals and looked at randomly-selected charts to look
for adverse events. Describes, Refers WHANGAREI, AUCKLAND HOSPITAL,
MIDDLEMORE, GISBORNE, WAIKATO, WELLINGTON, WAKEFIELD HOSPITAL.
051'15"
NURSE, NORTH SHORE HOSPICE
Challenging but rewarding work. Describes. Refers GOODFELLOW PAPERS,
PALLIATIVE CARE.
053'00"
REGISTERED NURSES' ASSOCIATION / KAI TIAKI
Has not kept up membership throughout. Has regarded her role more broadly
than as a REGISTERED NURSE.
[Phone rings]
FILE ENDS 54 minutes 49 seconds.
10
NERF Nursing Oral History Project 1950s/1960s
Abstract
Marjorie Crawford
Recorded:
Interviewer:
Abstracter:
Equipment type:
25 JUN 2013
Debbie Dunsford
Debbie Dunsford
Fostex FR-2LE Digital
Recorder
File: 7 of 7
000'04"
FINAL REFLECTIONS
Changes in NURSING TRAINING and NURSING PRACTICE over time. Enjoyed
working in community rather than in hospitals. Describes.
Reasons for becoming a nurse and reflections on career path. Describes.
Career highlights would be ODYSSEY HOUSE and FRIENDSHIPS made.
FILE and INTERVIEW ENDS 5 minutes 57 seconds.
11