WELDING
OCTOBER 2012
CONFIRMED MINUTES
CONFIRMED MINUTES
OCTOBER 22-24, 2012
OMNI WILLIAM PENN HOTEL
PITTSBURGH, PENNSYLVANIA USA
These minutes are not final until confirmed by the Task Group in writing or by vote at a subsequent
meeting. Information herein does not constitute a communication or recommendation from the
Task Group and shall not be considered as such by any agency.
MONDAY, OCTOBER 22 to WEDNESDAY, OCTOBER 24
1.0
OPENING COMMENTS – CLOSED
Call to Order / Quorum Check
The Welding Task Group (WLD) was called to order at 8:00 a.m., 22-Oct-12 by Ralph Kropp.
It was verified that only SUBSCRIBER MEMBERS were in attendance during the closed portion of
the meeting.
A quorum was established with the following representatives in attendance:
Subscriber Members/Participants Present (* Indicates Voting Member)
NAME
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
COMPANY NAME
Robbie
Adams
Honeywell
Osawonuyi
Valdemir
Agbonkonkon
Campos
Parker Hannifin Aerospace
Embraer
Gary
Bob
Bill
Larry
Milan
Tara
Les
Michael
Jerry
Aaron
Coleman
Fletcher
Fowler
Hamanishi
Hanyk
Harris
Hellemann
Irvin
Isoaho
Jacobson
Keith
Ralph
Holger
Peter
Donald
Nick
Scott
Joel
Lyle
Earl
Sunder
John
Paul
Kenneth
Kastner
Kropp
Krueger
Lang
Lenhart
Magnapera
Maitland
Mohnacky
Morris
Pruett
Rajan
Sanders
Slater
Sposato
Tim
Steve
Andrew
Storm
Tooley
Toth
The Boeing Company
BAE Systems Military Air & Information
United Technologies Aerospace
The Boeing Company
Honeywell Aerospace
UTC Aerospace Systems
GE Aviation
The Boeing Company
GKN Aerospace
United Technologies – Aerospace
System
Cessna Aircraft Company
MTU Aero Engines
Airbus
Pratt & Whitney
Spirit AeroSystems
BAE SYSTEMS E&I
Goodrich Aerostructures
UTC Aerospace Systems
Raytheon Company
Lockheed Martin
Raytheon Company
Hamilton Sundstrand
Rockwell Collins
Triumph Aerostructures - Vought
Division
Parker Aerospace
Rolls-Royce PLC
Rolls-Royce Corp.
1
Secretary
Chairman
Vice Chairman
WELDING
OCTOBER 2012
CONFIRMED MINUTES
*
Stanley
Gary L.
Mike
Trull
Winters
Zampini
Honeywell
Northrop Grumman Corporation
Honeywell
Other Members/Participants Present (* Indicates Voting Member)
*
*
*
*
*
*
NAME
James
Brian
Jeff
Michelle
Lorraine
Richard
Ergin
Darron
Hirohiko
Randy
Raymond
Christopher
Craig
Laura
Jim
David
Buddy
Tom
Sheila
Mike
Suzanne E.
Keith
Jackie
Gigi
Anatole
Emre
Ahlemeyer
Bennett
Bernath
Davis-Lawson
Floyd
Freeman
Gungor
Harris
Hattori
Hite
Hozempa
Kielb
Militello
Moyer
Olejarczyk
Osenar
Raderstorf
Riley
Salyer
Schleckman
Smatko
Smith
Sternot
Streeter
Sufler
Yavuz
COMPANY NAME
Ducommun Aerostructures New York
May Technologny & MFC
RTI International Metals
Byron Products
Flexial Corporation
TWI LTD
TEI
Exotic Metals Forming Company
Mitsubishi Heavy Industries
PCC Structurals Inc.
Yankee Casting Co., Inc.
Advance Welding
Westinghouse Electric Co.
Alcoa Howmet Dover Casting
Alcoa Forged Products
Pako Inc.
KIHM Metal Technologies
Rhinestahl Corporation
May Technologny & MFC
Voss Industries
Wyman Gordon Pennsylvania
Rhinestahl Corporation
Pako Inc.
Barnes Aerospace
C.A. Spalding
TEI
PRI Staff Present
James
Mike
Jesse
Stan
Ian
Borczyk
Gutridge
Lehmier
Revers
Simpson
Introductions were made and the roster circulated for completion by attendees.
The Code of Ethics, the Antitrust policy, Export Control regulations, Code of Conduct, and
Harassment & Discrimination policy were reviewed.
The previous secretary, Craig Militello, has left Goodrich Aerospace, and will no longer be the
Secretary to the WLD Task Group. Ralph Kropp asked members of the Task Group to consider this
position and recommended that an alternate be also put in place. Les Hellemann volunteered to be
the Secretary for this meeting.
1.1
Approval of Previous Meeting Minutes
Motion made by Keith Kastner and seconded by Steve Tooley to accept the June 2012 minutes as
written. Motion passed.
2
WELDING
OCTOBER 2012
CONFIRMED MINUTES
Twenty-Nine actions items from the June 2012 minutes were reviewed, 3 of these items remained
open. Observation audit of an Auditor scheduled for week commencing 29th October 2012;
Subsequent actions to be taken after observation audit is completed; Update handbook for welder
qualification which can only occur after the checklist have been issued. All other action items from
prior meetings were closed or were agenda items at this meeting. New action items identified in the
October 2012 meeting will be added to the Task Group Rolling Action Item List (RAIL), which will
be updated on a monthly basis. (See item 25.0 for details)
1.2
Review of Agenda
The agenda was reviewed. There were 4 new business items identified for inclusion. (See item
20.0)
1.3
Staff Engineer Communique
The Staff Engineer presented a Nadcap Communiqué to the Task Group.
1.3.1
The next meeting, February 2013, will be held in Dallas, USA.
1.3.2
Revisions to NOP-002, NOP-005, NOP-011, NIP 7-02 and NIP 7-04.
1.3.3
Use of m-frm-01 to capture non-voting members wishing to be listed on the roster.
1.3.4
Tony Warren is performing the Nadcap Management Council (NMC) Oversight audit of the WLD
Task Group.
1.3.5
Changes of support staff: Stacey McKinley to replace Melanie Petrucci.
2.0
AUDITOR CONFERENCE – CLOSED
Ian Simpson gave a review of the Auditor Conference content. This included new Auditor
conference modules on Audit Skills and Non-Conformance Report (NCR) Writing; Subscriber
specific presentations (Honeywell, GE Aviation, Rolls Royce, GKN Aerospace); Problem discussion
of audit findings; Question and answer session.
The Subscribers who attended the Auditor Conference assessed items that worked well and
identified areas for improvement. The general consensus was that the Conference had achieved its
objectives. Preliminary items for the 2013 Conference include: Continue company presentations
with BAE Systems and Boeing volunteering; Welder Qualification; Gas control; Smart checklist;
Question and Answer Review.
A number of unresolved questions from the Auditors were reviewed.
It had been noted that some Suppliers with Design responsibility may not be meeting the full
expectations of the WLD Task Group. The Task Group noted that Suppliers in this situation must
not have taken any exceptions to their AS9100 accreditation and as such it may be possible for
Auditors to ask Suppliers how they meet AS9100.
Further discussion ensued with respect to Suppliers being able to take exception with respect to
the Special Process element of AS9100. Few cases had been noted, however the Task Group
requested the Staff Engineer to pursue this item and ensure this item is being checked.
ACTION ITEM: Ian Simpson to establish that the process established by PRI validates that Suppliers are
not taking exceptions to the Quality System accreditations which need to be applicable to their business.
(Due Date: 30-Nov-12)
3
WELDING
OCTOBER 2012
CONFIRMED MINUTES
Specification flow down. A specific question on flow down of welder qualification specifications from
Boeing was asked. At the Conference it was suggested that Boeing could provide further details in
the Audit Handbook.
ACTION ITEM: Michael Irvin to provide details on specification flow down for inclusion in the Audit
Handbook. (Due Date: 30-Nov-12)
A request was made to revise the checklists to test for the element in AWS D17.1 that controls
cross contamination by marking stainless steel brushes with the alloy type they can be used on.
This was added to the rolling list of future checklist revision items.
One Auditor had noted that there were occasional revisions in the grading (i.e. Major or Minor) of
Non-Conformances. The Task Group stated that this occurs and is part of the Audit review
process.
Filler wire identification marking. It was confirmed that by referencing the specification that controls
identification in the purchase order, then no specific identification requirement has to be stated as
well.
Resistance Welding Coupon evaluation. This was tabled for discussion in the open meeting, Item
23.0
Filler wire control, specifically removal of oxidized tips. This was tabled for discussion in the open
meeting, Item 23.0
Hard face Welding Controls for welder qualification. This was tabled for discussion in the open
meeting, Item 23.0
Proposed handbook revision for AC7110/5 Para 5.1 to bring Handbook in-line with the checklist
question. This was tabled for discussion in the open meeting, Item 23.0
Edge distance of resistance weld coupons. It was noted that some Subscribers have standard test
pieces that do not necessarily account for edge distance control. As such the Task Group cannot
impose a specific edge distance control in the checklist.
3.0
AUDITOR EFFECTIVENESS – CLOSED
3.1
Review of Charts to Establish Effectiveness
The Staff Engineer presented the Nadcap Management Council (NMC) standard data set which is
being implemented as part of the Auditor Consistency program. The majority of the charts that are
being flowed down to the Task Groups are already in use by the WLD Task Group. The charts not
previously seen by the WLD Task Group were the reports that show feedback results from the Staff
Engineer and Supplier. These were reviewed along with the supporting data provided by the Staff
Engineer. Only 2 isolated items were noted and no concerns were therefore expressed by the Task
Group on these 2 new charts.
The Staff Engineer presented the remaining charts on Auditor effectiveness which were familiar to
the WLD Task Group. Several charts were reviewed which showed quantity of findings versus audit
question by Auditor and average difference between each Auditor’s findings and the number of
findings that the subsequent Auditor found.
There is an outstanding item from the June 2012 Task Group meeting with respect to observing a
specific Auditor. No further items from review of these charts were identified at this time.
Although the Observation has not yet been made, Ian Simpson provided an update based on a
discussion with the Auditor. After some discussion Ralph Kropp made the following motion.
4
WELDING
OCTOBER 2012
CONFIRMED MINUTES
Motion made by Ralph Kropp to discontinue the use of the identified Auditor. The motion was not
seconded.
3.2
A sub-team of Scott Maitland, Michael Irvin, David Struckman and Ian Simpson was created at the
June 2012 Task Group meeting to review an Auditor with high a number of NCRs versus two
Auditors with low NCRs on the red-line chart. The team presented their conclusions to the Task
Group. The main conclusion was that Auditors would benefit from further training in Welder
Qualification and Gas Controls. During the subsequent discussion it was suggested that the best
person to develop this training would be the Auditor who finds NCRs in these areas as he will be
able to explain to his peers how he performs audits in these areas.
ACTION ITEM: Ian Simpson to liaise with identified Auditor and establish if he is prepared to write training
on Welder Qualification and Gas controls and then deliver this at the 2013 Auditor Conference. (Due Date:
30-Nov-12)
Based on prior experience with this type of training material development it was suggested that the
Task Group assign a Subscriber to the task of working with the Auditor to provide a link between
the Auditor and the Task Group. Andy Toth volunteered for this.
ACTION ITEM: Andy Toth to work with identified Auditor on development of 2013 Auditor Conference
material and provide updates to the Task Group at future Task Group meetings. (Due Date: 21-Oct-13)
3.3
Review of Auditor Observations
Two observation audits were reviewed. One of these had no issues; however one had an issue as
described below.
The Auditor had missed some non-conformances that the Observer had identified. The Staff
Engineer was asked by the Task Group to review the results of the Observation with the Auditor.
ACTION ITEM: Ian Simpson to discuss results of Observation Audit with identified Auditor. (Due Date: 30Nov-12)
The Subscribers were reminded of the procedural requirements of Observing Audits that are
defined in NOP-007.
At the June 2012 Task Group meeting some Task Group members stated that they had had some
Observation audits declined and the Task Group believed this to be due to a perception within
Suppliers that Observed audits have more Non-Conformances (NCRs). The Staff Engineer was
asked to collect and analyze data to establish if this was the reality. The data was presented to the
Task Group and also added to New Business item 20.0. See item 20.3 for details.
3.4
Review of Training Evaluations and New Auditor Candidates
The Staff Engineer presented an update of the current Auditor status. A number of Auditors are
being reviewed to have their restrictions lifted.
The Staff Engineer noted that a prior Auditor, who resigned in December 2010, was considering
becoming an Auditor again. Procedurally there are no requirements for re-interview or reassessment in training audits. There was some discussion on whether he could simply just start
auditing again or if the Task Group needed to perform any further assessment.
Motion made by Ralph Kropp and seconded by Steve Tooley to require the previously approved
Auditor to conduct a satisfactory ‘T2’ audit before being re-hired. Motion passed.
5
WELDING
OCTOBER 2012
CONFIRMED MINUTES
4.0
SUPPLIER ADVISORIES – CLOSED
4.1
Review of Advisories since June 2012 Meeting.
Two WLD Supplier Advisories have been issued since the June 2012 meeting: 2147 and 2157. The
Task Group identified no further actions.
Five Supplier Advisories, issued by other commodities, were also reviewed as they may have an
effect on the WLD accreditations. These were 2148, 2150, 2161, 2163 and 2175. The Task Group
decided that no further actions were required as a result of these Supplier Advisories.
4.2
Review of Subscriber Advisories.
There were no Advisories required from Subscribers.
5.0
STAFF ENGINEER DELEGATION – CLOSED
The WLD Task Group reviewed the Staff Delegation Tracking Form information for Mike Gutridge.
He has met requirements of NOP-003 for delegation to be maintained, hence the WLD Task Group
voted to maintain his delegation.
Motion made by Keith Kastner and seconded by Scott Maitland to maintain Mike Gutridge’s
delegation. Motion passed.
The WLD Task Group reviewed the Staff Delegation Tracking Form information for Consultant
Reviewer, Wayne Canary. He has met requirements of NOP-003 for delegation to be maintained,
hence the WLD Task Group voted to maintain his delegation.
Motion made by Keith Kastner and seconded by Scott Maitland to maintain Wayne Canary’s
delegation. Motion passed.
The WLD Task Group reviewed the Staff Delegation Tracking Form information for Ian Simpson.
He has met requirements of NOP-003 for delegation to be maintained, hence the WLD Task Group
voted to maintain his delegation.
Motion made by Keith Kastner and seconded by Scott Maitland to maintain Ian Simpson’s
delegation. Motion passed.
Ian Simpson presented a training plan for new Staff Engineer, Stan Revers. The plan was in
relation to getting Stan to delegated status and was acceptable to the WLD Task Group. The Task
Group asked that they are notified when non-delegated Staff Engineer reviewed audits are
submitted to Task Group review so that they are aware that a quorum is required on these ballots.
ACTION ITEM: Stan Revers to notify the WLD Task Group when he submits an audit to Task Group ballot.
(Due Date: 19-Feb-13)
Subsequent discussion was centered on Stan supporting both the WLD and Heat Treatment (HT)
Task Groups and how his time would be split at Task Group meetings. The Task Group were
informed that his time would be split approximately 50% WLD / 50% HT but that flexibility was
needed to ensure he sees the broad spectrum of items that are affecting both Commodities. Ian
Simpson stated that he would liaise with the PRI Staff who are responsible for HT so as to assure
Stan sees the necessary WLD business items at future Task Group meetings.
6.0
REVIEW OF SUBSCRIBER DEVIATIONS– CLOSED
No Subscriber Deviations were requested for review.
6
WELDING
OCTOBER 2012
CONFIRMED MINUTES
7.0
SUBSCRIBER VOTING MEMBER QUALIFICATIONS– CLOSED
This agenda item was added at the request of Bob Fletcher. Bob withdrew his request for this item
and hence no further discussion ensued.
8.0
NEW BUSINESS CLOSED ITEMS– CLOSED
No new closed business item agenda items were requested.
9.0
MEMBERSHIP UPDATE – OPEN
9.1
Les Hellemann of GE Aviation attended his second meeting and is eligible for Alternate Subscriber
Voting Member (ALT/UVM) status.
Motion made by Gary Coleman and seconded by Keith Kastner for Les Hellemann of GE Aviation
to become an ALT/UVM. Motion passed.
9.2
Robbie Adams of Honeywell attended his second meeting and is eligible for ALT/UVM status.
Motion made by Gary Coleman and seconded by Keith Kastner for Robbie Adams of Honeywell to
become an ALT/UVM. Motion passed.
9.3
John Sanders of Hamilton Sundstrand attended his second meeting and is eligible for Subscriber
Voting Member (UVM) status.
Motion made by Gary Coleman and seconded by Keith Kastner for John Sanders of Hamilton
Sundstrand to become an UVM. Motion passed.
Scott Iby who is currently UVM will become ALT/UVM for Hamilton Sundstrand.
9.4
As noted in item 1.0, Craig Militello is no longer at Goodrich and hence is no longer the Secretary
for the Task Group. Chris English has volunteered to be the Task Group Secretary.
Motion made by Scott Maitland and seconded by Holger Krueger for Chris English to be appointed
Task Group Secretary. Motion passed.
9.5
Les Hellemann volunteered to be the Alternate Secretary.
Motion made by Scott Maitland and seconded by Holger Krueger for Les Hellemann to be
appointed the Task Group Alternate Secretary. Motion passed.
9.6
Ian Simpson informed the Task Group that Dag Lindland had also volunteered to be the Secretary
if either Chris English or Les Hellemann are absent at future meetings.
9.7
Tim Storm of Parker Aerospace is attending his first meeting.
9.8
Osawonuyi Agbonkonkon of Parker Aerospace is attending his first meeting.
9.9
Peter Lang of Pratt and Whitney is attending his first meeting.
9.10
Jim Olejarczyk of Alcoa is attending his first meeting. Jim stated that he would be interested in
becoming a future Supplier Voting Member (SVM). It was noted that at present the Task Group
already has its full allocation of SVMs per the limits defined in NTGOP-001 Appendix IV.
9.11
Jeff Bernath of RTI is attending his first meeting. Jeff stated that he would be interested in
becoming a future Supplier Voting Member (SVM). Again it was noted that at present the Task
Group already has its full allocation of SVMs.
7
9.12
WELDING
OCTOBER 2012
CONFIRMED MINUTES
Delinquency to NTGOP-001 with respect to attendance at meetings and voting on letter ballots.
It was noted that GE Aviation did not vote on 2 consecutive ballots. Per NTGOP-001, the Task
Group Chair maintained Voting Rights due to GE Aviation’s participation in sub-groups and their
commitment to the Secretary role.
ACTION ITEM: Ian Simpson to make administrative changes to Task Group memberships. (Due Date: 15Nov-12)
10.0
SUPPLIER SUPPORT COMMITTEE (SSC) REPORT – OPEN
Mike Schleckman gave a presentation on activities that the SSC is involved in. Key items:
Mentoring to help new Suppliers; 100% Supplier voting participation for WLD Task Group; Ways to
help Suppliers – help desk, Supplier tutorial, first time Supplier attendee Q&A; Contract flow-down
continues to be topic of lively conversation; Educational resources available to Suppliers.
11.0
NMC METRICS – OPEN
The Staff Engineer presented graphic representation of the Weld Task Group performance of NMC
Metrics. All metrics were coded ‘green’, except for initial audit Supplier cycle time and initial audit
Task Group cycle time which were coded ‘yellow’. The Task Group elected to take no further
actions on this.
12.0
SPECIFICATION CHANGES – OPEN
12.1
AWS D17.1:2010 paragraph 7.1.2 (Qualification of Visual Welder Inspectors) has previously been
discussed with a decision not to issue NCRs until after 1-May-13. The 2 options currently available
are to become a Certified Weld Inspector (CWI) or to utilize AWS B5.2 to develop a training and
qualification program which requires endorsement by the Engineering authority. It was noted that
outside of the USA, gaining CWI status will be difficult and expensive, thus only allowing the AWS
B5.2 route. Many Subscribers noted that they are still not yet in a position to either approve
programs as required by AWS B5.2 or to provide exceptions.
Motion made by Holger Krueger and seconded by Scott Maitland to extend the timeframe for which
a NCR will not be issued due to a Supplier not meeting AWS D17.1 Paragraph 7.1.2 to 1-Nov-13.
Motion passed.
ACTION ITEM: Ian Simpson to issue an Auditor Advisory extending the date to 1-Nov-13 for full
compliance to AWS D17.1 para 7.1.2 . (Due Date: 30-Nov-12)
A member of the American Welding Society (AWS) D17 Committee suggested that anyone with
concerns over this requirement should attend the next AWS meeting scheduled for November in
order to express their concerns directly to the specification body.
It was also noted that if the flowed contract to a Supplier is AWS D17.1, then this is a requirement
of the specification and although Nadcap has chosen not to test this requirement at this time,
Suppliers who do not meet the requirement are not meeting their contractual requirements.
12.2
It was noted that AMS 2694 Revision C will soon be issued. This has removed the requirement for
welder qualification to AWS D17.1 on the repair welding of castings.
12.3
Holger Krueger noted that there had been no ISO meeting on weld specifications since the June
2012 Task Group meeting and as such there were no new items to report. Holger expects that an
update will be provided at the February 2013 Task Group meeting.
13.0
CREATE NMC FEEDBACK CHART – OPEN
8
WELDING
OCTOBER 2012
CONFIRMED MINUTES
The Task Group generated the feedback chart presented by Steve Tooley, in Ralph Kropp’s
absence, to the NMC.
14.0
NEW AUDITOR TRAINING PROGRAM – OPEN
Ian Simpson gave a presentation on the New Auditor Training program that is being rolled-out for
any new Auditors entering the program after December 2012. The Task Group requested if the
training material could be made available. Ian Simpson responded that he believed the material to
be proprietary but that he would investigate if it could be sent to UVMs. Alternative suggestions
were that it could be reviewed at future Task Group meetings, or access to the Learning
Management Center (LMS) be granted for a short period of time.
ACTION ITEM: Ian Simpson to establish if New Auditor training material can be sent to UVMs. Should this
not be an option, Ian to establish how UVMs can review the material. (Due Date: 30-Nov-12)
15.0
ANNUAL REVIEW OF FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS – OPEN
Ian Simpson presented the existing Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) that are provided by the
Task Group for Suppliers. Some modifications to existing questions were made as well as some
new questions added. The new revision will replace the existing one in eAuditNet at
Resources/Documents/Public Documents/Welding/Supplier Information.
ACTION ITEM: Ian Simpson replace existing FAQ document with revised one. (Due Date: 30-Nov-12)
16.0
AUDITOR ADVISORIES– OPEN
There were 3 Auditor Advisories posted since the last Task Group meeting, 12-WLD-001, 12-WLD002 and 12-WLD-003. All were reviewed. The Staff Engineer reminded everyone that these are
posted in eAuditNet at Resources/Documents/Public Documents/Welding/Auditor Advisories.
17.0
BRAZE (AC7110/1) CHECKLIST REVIEW – OPEN
A joint sub-team comprising of members of the WLD and HT Task Groups had been established to
review the AC7110/1 checklist. Per a Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) there is an
agreement between these Task Groups. i.e. that although the checklist is owned by WLD, HT will
be consulted on any revisions. The sub-team had identified a number of questions that should be
reviewed by the WLD Task Group. These were reviewed by the WLD Task Group.
Many proposed changes were reviewed; however the majority were not supported by the Task
Group. The following changes were however identified and supported by votes as stated:
Motion made by Gary Winters and seconded by Keith Kastner to update Handbook to clarify the
term scrap in paragraph 4.3.5.2. Motion passed.
Motion made by Michael Irvin and seconded by Ralph Kropp to move requirements currently stated
at paragraphs 7.5.1, 7.5.2, 7.5.3, 7.5.4 and 7.6.2 to Job audits. Motion passed.
As these changes are not revising the requirements, simply relocating them within the checklist, the
Task Group agreed that these are all editorial changes
ACTION ITEM: Ian Simpson to make defined changes to the AC7110/1 checklist and issue per
requirements of NIP 4-01. (Due Date: 31-Dec-12)
ACTION ITEM: Ian Simpson to revise AC7110/1 handbook to define scrap and to align with revised
checklist paragraphs. (Due Date: 31-Jan-13)
18.0
NMC MEETING REPORT – OPEN
9
WELDING
OCTOBER 2012
CONFIRMED MINUTES
Ralph Kropp gave an update of items discussed at the Planning and Operations meeting, and the
NMC meeting. No items that require WLD Task Group action were identified.
19.0
NTGOP-001 APPENDIX IV BALLOT COMMENT RESOLUTION – OPEN
The ballot of the WLD appendix of NTGOP-001 resulted in 3 comments. Alternative proposals for
the verbiage in paragraphs 6.2 and 6.3 were proposed. These were discussed and ultimately
resulted in the following motion.
Motion made by Jackie Sternot and seconded by Ralph Kropp to accept verbiage as written in
Paragraph 6.2 of the balloted revision to remain. Motion passed.
As the proposed verbiage in paragraph 6.3 was similar to paragraph 6.2, Randy Hite withdrew his
ballot comments on paragraph 6.3.
The editorial comment made by Michael Irvin on paragraph 6.2 was accepted by the Task Group.
ACTION ITEM: Ian Simpson to make revisions to NTGOP-001 Appendix IV per the ballot dispositions of
the Task Group and ballot it to the NMC. (Due Date: 30-Nov-12)
It was however noted that although the verbiage in paragraphs 6.2 and 6.3 described what the
Task Group require in Main and Satellite audit conditions for merit and failure, that this could be
simplified by providing examples and / or a process map to supplement the verbiage. A sub-group
of Larry Hamanishi, Scott Maitland and Mike Schleckman volunteered for this.
ACTION ITEM: Larry Hamanishi, Scott Maitland and Mike Schleckman to create example matrix and or
process/map to provide guidance for paragraphs 6.2 and 6.3 of NTGOP-001 Appendix IV. (Due Date: 31May-13)
20.0
NEW BUSINESS OPEN ITEMS – OPEN
20.1
Milan Hanyk sought support from the Task Group for possible future revision to AC7110/5
Supplement E (Casting Repair). This proposal would include new questions to better test the
control of this item. Randy Hite suggested that the cancelled checklist AC7110/10 may provide
some additional items for consideration. A sub-team of Milan Hanyk, Randy Hite, Don Lenhart,
Holger Krueger, Robbie Adams and Jerry Isoaho to draft additional questions and present to the
Task Group at the February 2013 Task Group meeting.
ACTION ITEM: Milan Hanyk, Randy Hite, Don Lenhart, Holger Krueger, Robbie Adams and Jerry Isoaho to
draft additional questions for AC7110/5 Supplement E (Casting Repair) and present at the February 2013
Task Group meeting. (Due Date: 19-Feb-13)
20.2
REACH – This is a European Union legislation to control harmful chemicals. The Task Group
discussed if this would have an impact on Weld audits. The Task Group noted that it would have
some impact on Suppliers, but that it would have limited, if any, impact on the Nadcap WLD audits.
20.3
At the June 2012 Task Group meeting, Ian Simpson was asked to obtain data on Observed audits.
There was a concern that perhaps observed audits received more NCRs than non-observed audits.
The data for the Weld Task Group shows that observed weld audits have less NCRs than nonobserved audits (For initial audits 3.0 NCRs average for non-observed versus 2.5 NCRs average
for observed; for reaccreditation audits 2.0 NCRs average for non-observed versus 1.3 NCRs
average for observed). Hence the data does not support the perception that more NCRs are
generated in Observed audits. In an attempt to stop Suppliers rejecting Observers, the Task Group
suggested that a letter from the Task Group Chair that explains the situation would be beneficial.
ACTION ITEM: Ralph Kropp and Ian Simpson to create letter which will be sent to Suppliers when an
Observer requests an audit to explain that the Audit is not being influenced by the Observer. (Due Date:
31-Dec-13)
10
WELDING
OCTOBER 2012
CONFIRMED MINUTES
20.4
Holger Krueger presented some resistance weld nugget photographs produced in commercially
pure titanium. This highlighted an issue that in this material it is possible to confuse the Heat
Affected Zone (HAZ) with a weld nugget. Hence in the worst case scenario a weld may not even
have been produced, but the HAZ may be interpreted as the nugget and subsequently recorded as
having passed the evaluation.
21.0
ANNUAL REVIEW OF TOP 10NCRS – OPEN
Ian Simpson presented the top 10 NCRs based on the NCRs for the prior 12 months. This was
reviewed by the Task Group. Ian Simpson reminded the Task Group that this document is posted
in eAuditNet at Resources/Documents/Public Documents/Welding/Supplier Information.
ACTION ITEM: Ian Simpson to update the Top 10 NCRs that is posted in eAuditNet. (Due Date: 30-Nov12)
22.0
FORUM FOR SUPPLIER ISSUES – OPEN
22.1
A meeting participant requested if the WLD Task Group would consider not controlling Class C
welds to the same requirements as Class A and B. The Task Group responded that the baseline
checklist requires them to have a system for weld schedule development and qualification and that
the job audits tested that system as well as the contracted flow down. As not all Subscribers control
weld classification in the same manner, then it would be too difficult to separate out each
Subscriber’s requirements. Hence there was no support for this suggestion.
22.2
A meeting participant requested if the beam stopper material in electron beam welding had to be
the same alloy type as the material being welded. The Audit Handbook for this item was reviewed
and allowance is given for deviation providing this is defined in the WPS.
22.3
Jackie Sternot asked for the Task Group’s interpretation of performing the self-audit prior to the
Nadcap audit. The WLD checklist requires the Supplier to perform a self-audit. Although the
Supplier should satisfy themselves that the job audit aspect of the self-audit is in control, it is the
Auditor who selects the job audit and hence if these sections of the self-audit are not completed, no
NCR will result.
22.4
A meeting participant requested if it is acceptable to qualify laser welds of the same material and
joint configuration using the same test report. i.e. not make the qualifications part specific. The
Task Group stated that in principle this is acceptable, however that this should be described
procedurally so as to assure the qualifications are performed when required.
22.5
A meeting participant noted that the GKN Aerospace (U20, formerly Volvo) supplemental checklists
flow down a requirement that is not always required by the contract. The GKN Aerospace
Subscriber Voting Member noted that he was aware of this issue and will make revisions to the
Supplemental requirements at the next revision.
23.0
CHECKLIST REVISIONS – OPEN
23.1
Checklist Ballot Resolution
The Task Group reviewed the ballot comments from the ballots of AC7110/3, AC7110/3S,
AC7110/4, AC7110/4S, AC7110/5, AC7110/5S, AC7110/6, AC7110/6S, AC7110/12, AC7110/12S,
AC7110/13 and AC7110/13S. Each comment was dispositioned.
ACTION ITEM: Ian Simpson to finalize the checklist ballots with the Task Group dispositions and ballot per
NIP 4-01 requirements (i.e. affirmation ballot to Task Group if technical changes occurred or NMC
affirmation ballot if no technical changes have occurred). (Due Date: 31-Jan-13)
11
WELDING
OCTOBER 2012
CONFIRMED MINUTES
The Task Group agreed that should Supplemental Checklists require affirmation ballot, they can be
balloted to Subscribers only as allowed by NIP 4-01.
23.2
Handbook Revisions
23.2.1 Per a suggestion made at the Auditor Conference, the Task Group discussed the need for possible
revision to the assessment of resistance weld nuggets. The concern is that the current diagram has
the faying surface coinciding with the maximum nugget width. Hence by using this diagram, the
Auditor does not know if the coupon evaluator knows that the width must be assessed at the faying
surface. The WLD Task Group however agreed that by adding new diagrams it is possible that a
coupon evaluator would possibly be asked to assess coupon shapes that he would never
encounter in production and this would be an un-fair test. The WLD Task Group therefore agreed
to write additional guidance in the handbook for AC7110/4 at paragraph 8.5 and issue an Auditor
Advisory to instruct auditors to use the widest possible variations of coupons that are likely to be
encountered during the job audit evaluations.
23.2.2 Per a suggestion made at the Auditor Conference, the Task Group modified guidance in the
handbook for AC7110/5 at paragraph 5.1.
23.2.3 At the Auditor Conference, the Task Group was asked for guidance in expectations for welder
qualification for hardface welding. The Task Group members stated that they needed to understand
how their specifications control this type of welding before guidance can be given.
23.2.4 Ian Simpson noted that Audit Handbooks will need to be revised based on the checklist revisions
that will occur (ref item 23.1) and asked for a sub-team to be created to review handbook changes.
Don Lenhart, John Sanders and Gary Coleman volunteered for this sub-team.
23.2.5 Tungsten electrode marking. Electrodes are supplied with identification which can be lost when
electrodes are cut, points ground etc. There was some discussion as to whether not controlling
electrode identification in these situations could cause problems. The Task Group sentiment was
that few, if any, problems had been attributed to the use of an incorrect electrode and at this time
elected not to provide guidance.
23.2.6 Removal of filler wire oxidized tips. The Task Group stated that a separate requirement is not going
to be imposed to require procedural control of this item. If a welder is found to be reintroducing an
oxidized wire into the weld pool then this should be written as an NCR against the filler wire
cleanliness question.
ACTION ITEM: Ian Simpson to make changes to Audit Handbooks to address items made at the 2012
Auditor Conference and the impending Audit Checklist revisions. (Due Date: 31-Jan-13)
ACTION ITEM: Ian Simpson to issue an Auditor Advisory to instruct Auditors performing resistance weld
audits to select jobs that give the widest range of parts that the Supplier welds in order to test coupon
evaluators in the types of weld nuggets they encounter. (Due Date: 31-Dec-12)
ACTION ITEM: Sub-team of Don Lenhart, John Sanders and Gary Coleman to review Audit Handbook
revisions and provide feedback. (Due Date: 31-Jan-13)
ACTION ITEM: All Subscriber Voting members to establish their specification requirements that control
hardface welding and be ready for further discussion at the February 2013 Task Group meeting. (Due
Date: 19-Feb-13)
ACTION ITEM: Ian Simpson to issue an Auditor Advisory to clarify that if oxidized filler wire is seen to be
contaminating the weld pool that it is to be written as an NCR against the filler material cleanliness
question. (Due Date: 31-Dec-12)
23.3
Smart Checklists
12
WELDING
OCTOBER 2012
CONFIRMED MINUTES
The WLD Task Group has previously agreed that for mature Suppliers the structure of the audit
should be changed to allow more compliance (job) audits and to reduce procedural questions to
allow the time for this. Ian Simpson provided a re-cap of this to the Task Group and presented an
outline of requirements compiled by the eAuditNet team. The Task Group is still in agreement that
this is the correct approach. The main item of discussion on this subject was that the Task Group
believed that the Supplier should not see the questions that will be asked in a modified scope audit
until the Auditor arrives. This would ensure that the Supplier has reviewed all the checklist
requirements and not focused only on those they know will be asked.
Once NMC agree to Smart checklist, WLD and Chemical Process Task Groups will be requested to
pilot the program.
23.4
Global Specifications
Ian Simpson presented a report on the use of Global specifications within the Weld Checklists. In
reviewing this it was noted that the WLD Task Group have incorporated Global specifications into
the checklists and where possible worded the questions to test the requirements of all
specifications. Only 4 further Global specification were identified: ISO 3838, ISO 13919, ISO 14744
and DIN 65233. Of these it was noted that DIN 65233 is expected to be replaced by an ISO within
6 months and ISO 3838 is not an Aerospace specification. The Weld Task Group is committed to
ensuring that the checklists test Global specification requirements and include an ISO specification
update at each meeting in order to achieve this.
24.0
FEBRUARY 2013 AGENDA– OPEN
Meeting days will be Tuesday 19th through Thursday 21st February 2013. Items to be included in
the agenda are:








25.0
2013 Auditor Conference development
Hardface Welding – Welder qualification requirements
Review proposal for Casting Weld repairs
Checklist ballot comment resolution
Review and disposition rolling list of ballot revision proposals
NOP-011 Failure criteria
Smart Checklists
Standard agenda items including Auditor Advisories, Auditor effectiveness, Staff Engineer
delegation, Metrics, Membership changes, Specification changes affecting Nadcap
REVIEW OF ACTION ITEMS– OPEN
All action items were reviewed and found acceptable. For specific details please see the Welding
Task Group RAIL posted at www.eAuditNet.com under Public Documents / Welding.
26.0
REVIEW OF MEETING EFFECTIVENESS– OPEN
The Task Group completed the meeting evaluation form.
New evaluation form
Weld Oct'12.doc
27.0
NEXT MEETING – OPEN
13
WELDING
OCTOBER 2012
CONFIRMED MINUTES
The February 2013 meeting is to be held in Dallas, Texas, USA.
ADJOURNMENT – 24-Oct-12 Meeting was adjourned at 4:30 p.m.
Minutes Prepared by: Les Hellemann (les.hellemann@ge.com)
***** For PRI Staff use only: ******
Are procedural/form changes required based on changes/actions approved
during this meeting? (select one)
YES*
NO
*If yes, the following information is required:
Documents requiring
revision:
Who is responsible:
NTGOP-001 App IV
Ian Simpson
30-Nov-12 (to
NMC ballot)
AC7110/3, AC7110/3S,
AC7110/4, AC7110/4S,
AC7110/5, AC7110/5S,
AC7110/6, AC7110/6S,
AC7110/12,
AC7110/12S, AC7110/13
and AC7110/13S
AC7110/1
Ian Simpson
30-Nov-12 (to
Task Group
affirmation
ballot)
31-Jan-13 (to
NMC ballot)
Ian Simpson
31-Dec-12
14
Due date: